PDA

View Full Version : Why most Eastern 1HBHs suck


BevelDevil
02-05-2012, 03:09 PM
I've been comparing Eastern 1hbh variations, in particular the "pistol" vs. "hammered" grip positions.

The fundamental distinction between the two is that in "pistol" variant, the fingers are angled forward and often spread apart, creating a wider angle with the forearm.

In the "hammered" variant, the fingers run perpendicular to the handle and are bunched together, creating a more 90-degree with the forearm (though not actually 90-degree). The base knuckle of the little finger will be higher on the handle, and the heel pad will be more behind the handle, than in the pistol variation.


I've come to the following observations and conclusions:

1. The pistol E1hbh is the one mostly taught, and self-taught.

2. The eastern hammer grip plays more like an extreme eastern pistol grip, and is therefore better for high balls and for generating pace. i.e., it is more "modern."

3. Every 1hbh pro I've examined at has more of a hammer grip than pistol. I haven't found a single image of a pro active in the last decade who hits with spread out fingers. This includes both eastern and extreme eastern 1hbhs.


Here's a video showing the proper hammer grip (taught by, no surprise, a Latin/Spanish instructor). Go to 0:17. This is how it should be taught, imo.
http://www.videojug.com/film/the-one-handed-backhand-grip


Here are videos that advocate a pistol grip. I include these simple to show how disconnected many teachers are from modern needs:

i) This guy explicitly says to not use hammer. His video was unfortunately the top link in the Google search "how to hit a one handed backhand".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpLApIuLGV4#t=2m10s

ii) Here is Will from FuzzyYellowBalls teaching the 1hbh.
http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/video-tennis-lessons/backhand/one-handed-backhand-fundamentals/grip-change/

iii) Here is another top search find from ehow. It shows a graphic of a pistol grip while, ironically, showing a picture of Pete Sampras, who actually used a hammer grip.
http://www.ehow.com/how_4730546_one-handed-backhand-tennis-shot.html


So, my conclusion is that one major reason the 1hbh is dying out is that it is being mistaught! I suppose in the olden days of fast courts the pistol grip might be more effective. But in the modern game an eastern pistol is a liability.

Comments? Also, if you use or used a 1hbh, was it pistol, hammer or somewhere in-between?

10sLifer
02-05-2012, 03:18 PM
I feel like I do not hold the racquet like a hammer. My base knuckle and the bottom of my palm pad(as opposed to the top that would make a hammer grip) are on the number one bevel yet my fingers still don't seem to give the appearance of being spread out. I think your fingers could not look so spread out but still not be holding the racquet like a hammer.

http://youtu.be/N-EkBFaSWuI

Netspirit
02-05-2012, 03:43 PM
I am using the hammer grip. I agree that the pistol one feels very "Continental / volleyish", and I just prefer to squeeze the grip with my index finger (while the pistol grip weakens that particular contact area and relies on the middle finger more).

With the hammer grip you can hit from a stance that is slightly more open. I hit with more pace and spin that way, but I do agree that the pistol grip is probably better for control.

stormholloway
02-05-2012, 03:52 PM
3. Every 1hbh pro I've examined at has more of a hammer grip than pistol. I haven't found a single image of a pro active in the last decade who hits with spread out fingers. This includes both eastern and extreme eastern 1hbhs.

http://0.tqn.com/d/tennis/1/0/c/K/roger_federer_backhand_01.jpg

Nostradamus
02-05-2012, 03:54 PM
Tell that to Ivan Lendl. worked pretty well for him

Xizel
02-05-2012, 04:04 PM
http://0.tqn.com/d/tennis/1/0/c/K/roger_federer_backhand_01.jpg

The defining line isn't clear. I'd say that's close to hammer style. Pistol style has the index finger almost running in line with the handle. I self taught myself a one handed backhand (with a lot of Federer videos) and hammer came naturally to me. It allowed a loopy swing that generated spin. Pistol feels like a continental topspin backhand in that it feels as if the human forearm muscles aren't created to be advantageous in that position and therefore aren't.

BevelDevil
02-05-2012, 04:08 PM
http://0.tqn.com/d/tennis/1/0/c/K/roger_federer_backhand_01.jpg


Fed curls the index, but doesn't spread it. Same with Almagro and Henin.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vHSoe0CdlQs/S1fKWrM8HFI/AAAAAAAAGv0/KK6mEsjN-6U/s400/federer-backhand1.jpg

BevelDevil
02-05-2012, 04:13 PM
Tell that to Ivan Lendl. worked pretty well for him

Can you find some pics of him at contact? Its tough to Google image old timers.

stormholloway
02-05-2012, 04:13 PM
The defining line isn't clear. I'd say that's close to hammer style. Pistol style has the index finger almost running in line with the handle. I self taught myself a one handed backhand (with a lot of Federer videos) and hammer came naturally to me. It allowed a loopy swing that generated spin. Pistol feels like a continental topspin backhand in that it feels as if the human forearm muscles aren't created to be advantageous in that position and therefore aren't.

Hammer style and pistol style are arbitrary distinctions. They're meaningless, particularly if we're calling the grip in that photo hammer style. The index finger is clearly and distinctively separated from the other fingers. It's closer to someone gripping a pistol than it is someone gripping a hammer.

If we're calling Federer's grip a hammer then let's just end this discussion right here.

stormholloway
02-05-2012, 04:16 PM
Fed curls the index, but doesn't spread it. Same with Almagro and Henin.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vHSoe0CdlQs/S1fKWrM8HFI/AAAAAAAAGv0/KK6mEsjN-6U/s400/federer-backhand1.jpg

He absolutely does spread his index and middle fingers. My picture clearly demonstrated that. Even in your pic, those two fingers are anything but parallel.

Federer does not use a hammer grip. Before we can even discuss this we have to at least establish the facts otherwise what's the point?

mikeler
02-05-2012, 04:38 PM
Fed curls the index, but doesn't spread it. Same with Almagro and Henin.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vHSoe0CdlQs/S1fKWrM8HFI/AAAAAAAAGv0/KK6mEsjN-6U/s400/federer-backhand1.jpg


Love this pic, can't figure out why...

Frank Silbermann
02-05-2012, 06:17 PM
So, my conclusion is that one major reason the 1hbh is dying out is that it is being mistaught! I suppose in the olden days of fast courts the pistol grip might be more effective. But in the modern game an eastern pistol is a liability. It was on fast courts that correct tennis technique developed.

Fuji
02-05-2012, 07:23 PM
I use a 1HBH, and pistol grip is the way to go for me. Hammer grip feels so odd in every situation, and honestly my entire game is based around transitioning to the net, so I don't have the luxury of messing with the same grip, but with different hand positions in between. :)

-Fuji

BevelDevil
02-05-2012, 08:59 PM
Federer does not use a hammer grip. Before we can even discuss this we have to at least establish the facts otherwise what's the point?

Hammer style and pistol style are arbitrary distinctions. They're meaningless, particularly if we're calling the grip in that photo hammer style. The index finger is clearly and distinctively separated from the other fingers. It's closer to someone gripping a pistol than it is someone gripping a hammer.

If we're calling Federer's grip a hammer then let's just end this discussion right here.

I agree that "pistol" and "hammer" are parts of a spectrum in the same way there's "Eastern" and "Western." I'm more than happy to use more precise language such as "semi-hammer" and "mild pistol".

But the grips that pros use don't look anything like the following, apparently widely taught:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7015/6827674067_96ff480c4f.jpg[/url]

^^^ from FYB

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7029/6827674023_92851ea0c1.jpg[/url]

^^^ top video search result

http://i.ehow.com/images/a04/gb/li/one-handed-backhand-tennis-shot-1.3-800x800.jpg
http://www.ehow.com/how_4730546_one-handed-backhand-tennis-shot.html

http://www.busy-tennis-players.com/images/ExtremeEasternOrSemiWesternBackhandGripWithMarking s.jpg
http://www.busy-tennis-players.com/

Larrysümmers
02-05-2012, 09:19 PM
I use a 1HBH, and pistol grip is the way to go for me. Hammer grip feels so odd in every situation, and honestly my entire game is based around transitioning to the net, so I don't have the luxury of messing with the same grip, but with different hand positions in between. :)

-Fuji
same with me. i hold the same grip for every shot and it happens to be a BH grip that is held like a pistol. it just feels more comfy for me compared to the hammer grip

BevelDevil
02-05-2012, 09:23 PM
I use a 1HBH, and pistol grip is the way to go for me. Hammer grip feels so odd in every situation, and honestly my entire game is based around transitioning to the net, so I don't have the luxury of messing with the same grip, but with different hand positions in between. :)

-Fuji

same with me. i hold the same grip for every shot and it happens to be a BH grip that is held like a pistol. it just feels more comfy for me compared to the hammer grip


I agree that the pistol grip feels more natural, gives easy reach, and seems more effortless on balls in the wheelhouse.

Of course, the same could be said about the Eastern forehand...

purge
02-05-2012, 10:37 PM
i suppose im hammering. altho i never thought about it

to stormholloway: that pic of fed you use is kinda misleading since its just the takeback. its very common to have a slightly different looking grip during the takeback as youre not really gripping hard up until getting close to contact. so his grip is simply more lose during takeback and that makes it look a bit like a pistol grip.

but on every shot thats taken on contact point his grip looks very hammerish to me. in any case much more hammer than pistol

Cross-court
02-05-2012, 11:22 PM
3. Every 1hbh pro I've examined at has more of a hammer grip than pistol. I haven't found a single image of a pro active in the last decade who hits with spread out fingers. This includes both eastern and extreme eastern 1hbhs.

Maybe you should get your eyes checked.

http://2010.usopen.org/images/pics/large/b_09062010_Don__Federer_215.jpg

http://tennis.topbuzz.com/tennis-pics/d/28114-2/Roger+Federer+backhand+preparation+in+Key+Biscayne +2010.JPG

http://www.onlinetennisinstruction.com/images/Federer1.jpg

BevelDevil
02-06-2012, 01:27 AM
Maybe you should get your eyes checked.


All of those pictures were of his takeback.

To quote a previous poster itt:


to stormholloway: that pic of fed you use is kinda misleading since its just the takeback. its very common to have a slightly different looking grip during the takeback as youre not really gripping hard up until getting close to contact. so his grip is simply more lose during takeback and that makes it look a bit like a pistol grip.

but on every shot thats taken on contact point his grip looks very hammerish to me. in any case much more hammer than pistol


Here's more Fed pics at around contact:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39226000/jpg/_39226720_federer_afp300x300.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/tennis/1/0/i/K/roger_federer_backhand_07.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/tennis/1/0/h/K/roger_federer_backhand_06.jpg


To be honest, Fed is doing something weird with his index finger.

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2007/01/15/va1237229837662/Roger-Federer-5360060.jpg

It's curling and somewhat bowed out, but is anchored back at the tip along with his thumb and middle finger.

Keep in mind Fed uses a very small grip for his hand size, which means his finger has to be bowed out in order to connect with his thumb. This looks rather uncomfortable. He could have just let his index spread up the handle, but he doesn't. This leads me to believe he's going out of his way to avoid making a pistol grip.

In any case, his grip is nothing like the pictures of pistol grips I posted above.

Chyeaah
02-06-2012, 03:18 AM
Wait. If his grip changes does that mean he squeezes his hand to change into a hammer grip?

tennis_balla
02-06-2012, 06:15 AM
There is no black and white in tennis. In regards to Federer its neither a hammer or pistol grip, its the Federer backhand grip!

Ok in all seriousness I've looked into his backhand grip in the past and to me he's using a hybrid of both (hammer and pistol).

Ballinbob
02-06-2012, 06:28 AM
This is why I switched to a 2hbh...

Limpinhitter
02-06-2012, 06:30 AM
There is no black and white in tennis. In regards to Federer its neither a hammer or pistol grip, its the Federer backhand grip!

Ok in all seriousness I've looked into his backhand grip in the past and to me he's using a hybrid of both (hammer and pistol).

IMO, Federer's backhand grip looks nearly identical to Sampras' backhand grip. So, I'd call it the "Pistol Pete" grip. Hahaha! And his TS backhand looks nearly identical to Pete's as well.

purge
02-06-2012, 09:29 AM
Wait. If his grip changes does that mean he squeezes his hand to change into a hammer grip?
its more like the hand automatically changes into the proper conformation when he tightens his grip. as it does for everyone
or do you run around the court gripping your racquet as hard as possible all the time even when youre not hitting a shot? if so i can only feel sorry for your hand oO

i actually fooled around a bit now and i dont think i could ever use a true pistol grip. i mean i could see someone using it if all he ever wants to do is block and/or redirect shots with it as it kinda feels more like the racquet becomes a more natural extension of the arm. but it would completely prohibit me from ever putting anything on the shot myself as it straight out prevents me from getting any wrist action whatsoever. maybe im just weird that way but it doesnt work for me haha

either way as has been said its never good to get caught up in hairsplitting here. i suppose no one will ever do a picture perfect version of any kind of grip as everyones proportions, movement habits, etc will differ slightly and thus give the grip some unique little tweak. to me federers grip is just his own version of a hammerish grip. and it seems to be working quite alright for him -.-

bad_call
02-06-2012, 09:47 AM
There is no black and white in tennis. In regards to Federer its neither a hammer or pistol grip, its the Federer backhand grip!

Ok in all seriousness I've looked into his backhand grip in the past and to me he's using a hybrid of both (hammer and pistol).

that's also my observation. now it becomes why my 1hbh stinks. :cry:

limitup
02-06-2012, 07:42 PM
The key is the angle of the forearm and the handle. If you were to use a TRUE hammer grip the angle would be almost 90 degrees (during and AT contact). This is not the case for any top pro with a 1HBH.

There is just no way you can call this a hammer grip:

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4485/fedh.jpg

Cross-court
02-06-2012, 07:54 PM
All of those pictures were of his takeback.

It still is a "pistol" grip, his pinky knuckle is angled around 45° on contact and not parallel with the handle.

Honestly this is all nonsense anyways and making a big deal about something meaningless and that won't make any considerable difference in hitting good backhands.

In any case having spread out fingers, only if its the index one, will give you more control, stability and flexibility, like in the serve or any other shot for that matter, as opposed to having them all bunched up together like a clenched fist.

I would worry more about sound technique, swing and of using any grip except continental.

Cross-court
02-06-2012, 07:58 PM
And his TS backhand looks nearly identical to Pete's as well.

How dare you. Sampras's ts bh was hideous, it looked kinda like mcenroe's.

Cross-court
02-06-2012, 07:58 PM
The key is the angle of the forearm and the handle. If you were to use a TRUE hammer grip the angle would be almost 90 degrees (during and AT contact). This is not the case for any top pro with a 1HBH.

There is just no way you can call this a hammer grip:

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4485/fedh.jpg

Perfectly stated. Pic is as clear as daylight.

stormholloway
02-06-2012, 08:09 PM
The grip isn't going to make or break you. I think people waste so much time thinking about grips, particularly on the forehand, when they should be thinking about things like weight transfer, shoulder turn etc.

BevelDevil
02-06-2012, 09:40 PM
Wait. If his grip changes does that mean he squeezes his hand to change into a hammer grip?

I think those pics of him with a pistol grip were slice backhands.

Watch this vid. Fed uses a significant pistol grip when slicing (as I think most people do).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YE-k1QwZfg


IMO, Federer's backhand grip looks nearly identical to Sampras' backhand grip. So, I'd call it the "Pistol Pete" grip. Hahaha! And his TS backhand looks nearly identical to Pete's as well.

One difference is Pete has his thumb on the outside. This is supposed to be a telltale of a hammer. I believe Youzhny and Rochus also do this.

I also think their motions are drastically different. Pete tends to stay hunched over and rotates more into the shot. Fed lifts his body up more (as most pros do now) through the shot and stays more closed.



Ok in all seriousness I've looked into his backhand grip in the past and to me he's using a hybrid of both (hammer and pistol).

I agree, it seems no pro uses a full hammer. I used the word "hammer" for lack of a better term. "Semi hammer" may be a better term for those who know what a hammer is.

The key is the angle of the forearm and the handle. If you were to use a TRUE hammer grip the angle would be almost 90 degrees (during and AT contact). This is not the case for any top pro with a 1HBH.

There is just no way you can call this a hammer grip:


My understanding is that the definition of hammer relates to the handle position in the hand, not necessarily the angle formed with the arm (though they are related... I get about a 115' angle). This is important because if you release the wrist through contact (which Fed seems to do a lot), the angle will open up. So the picture you posted could simply be Fed releasing the wrist before contact, but I don't know. Ideally we'd have a video taken from the same camera angle of the pic you posted.


In any case my point is simply that pros use grips that are much more hammerish than seems to be widely taught to rec players.



Lastly, I'd like to randomly bring up another Eastern gripper, Almagro.

http://0.tqn.com/d/tennis/1/0/X/M/nicolas-almagro-topspin-backhand-grip.jpg

BevelDevil
02-06-2012, 11:29 PM
The grip isn't going to make or break you. I think people waste so much time thinking about grips, particularly on the forehand, when they should be thinking about things like weight transfer, shoulder turn etc.

Yeah, all that is definitely important, but the grip is the foundation.

For example, whether you use a pistol grip or a hammer grip will affect your point of contact and how much you should turn your shoulder out. And all those things will affect how you should place and time your step and backswing, and followthrough.

So grip merits a lot of attention since it affects everything else.


I'll go further and say the choice of backhand grip is more important than choice of forehand grip. While there are many forehand grips that players can use at a high level (Eastern, strong eastern, SW, strong SW, full western, laid back, not laid back), I think the backhand is much more restricted because, by nature's design, the back of the hand cannot withstand as much pressure as can the palm or knife edge of the hand. That's why aikido techniques often begin by pushing the back of the hand.

Because of this inherent weakness, it is precisely my contention that the choice of backhand grip can make or break you. The fact that we haven't been able to pull up an image of a recent pro hitting with a pistol grip (as defined in the coaching pics I posted earlier) suggest to me that the pistol grip is not viable for most players, at least not at the pro level.

Also, I suspect that the large majority of players who ditch the 1hbh for the 2hbh do so in part because they were using some kind of pistol grip and/or grip that was not extreme enough.

I've said in other treads I thought the extreme eastern (pistol) grip should replace the conventional eastern (pistol) grip as the default grip for the 1hbh. But now I'm leaning towards the idea of the "Eastern Hammer" (index knuckle on bevel 1, little knuckle on bevel 1.5) being the default.

In any case, I think teaching pros should stop teaching the eastern pistol grip.

Larrysümmers
02-07-2012, 06:58 AM
I agree that the pistol grip feels more natural, gives easy reach, and seems more effortless on balls in the wheelhouse.

Of course, the same could be said about the Eastern forehand...

i want to like the EFH, but i cant get comfy with it, it just feels too unnatural for me. but with the EBH it feels more stable. when i use a 2 hander i have a pistol, never really thought about it until now though

limitup
02-07-2012, 07:11 AM
Lastly, I'd like to randomly bring up another Eastern gripper, Almagro.

http://0.tqn.com/d/tennis/1/0/X/M/nicolas-almagro-topspin-backhand-grip.jpg

I think you need to look at the picture I posted above again. Even the pic of Almagro you've posted although it's harder to see due to the angle of the pic. In both, the angle between their forearm and the handle is about 135 degrees. A true hammer would be 90 degrees, and is very awkward to swing. If you use a true hammer your arm has to stick to your body throughout the entire swing almost.

It's not even so much about the spacing of the fingers, it's all about the angle of the grip in the hand. And what you are calling a hammer, at least according to conventional wisdom, has the grip laying across the hand with the 1st knuckles of all 4 fingers on the same bevel.

FYI, Coach Kyril on Youtube ... the guy you're bashing ... has probably helped more people with his coaching and his videos than anyone on this board. His backhand videos are 110% right on the money. His serve tutorials are also awesome (how to hit a kick etc)

BevelDevil
02-07-2012, 04:02 PM
I said this before: no pro uses a Full Hammer (all knuckles lined up). I tried it and it's really uncomfortable.

But my point is that no pro uses a pistol grip either!

So I'm addressing the disparity between what most coaches are apparently teaching (pistol grip) and what I see pros doing (non-pistol grip).

Almagro is clearly NOT using a pistol grip, and neither is any other pro I've found.

What grip are they using? If it would help, we don't have to call it "hammer." How about a "staff" grip, as opposed to the "wand" grip taught by a lot of coaches?


As for "bashing" Coach Kyril (and Will Hamilton), I'm sure they've done a lot of good, but the reality is that every pro tennis player with a 1hbh disagrees with them on how to grip a 1hbh!


For this reason and more, I recommend the video of Fabián "Fab" Nuñez Seixa, over Kyril or Will, at least when it comes to grip.

http://www.videojug.com/film/the-one-handed-backhand-grip


Finally, let's address what is the most important aspect of this thread: How can we improve the 1hbhs of beginner/intermediate players?

I think it's clear that most of the problems players have with the eastern pistol grip (high balls, generating top spin and pace) are addressed by holding it "semi-hammer". This is a point that no one is contesting.

limitup
02-07-2012, 04:52 PM
We may have to agree to disagree - I feel like you're ignoring the key points of the "argument" that I've already mentioned. If you read through the thread it doesn't look like anyone is really agreeing with you, and I posted a pic of Fed that CLEARLY shows a pistol grip. Not sure what you're arguing about or for ...

BevelDevil
02-07-2012, 05:09 PM
I found two nice videos which show how to obtain each grip. Interesting contrast. (They are both in Spanish.)

"Pistol"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDmDJpJC5Ec#t=0m11s

"Semi-Hammer"
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=BEDTn-v-d2U#t=0m31s


We may have to agree to disagree - I feel like you're ignoring the key points of the "argument" that I've already mentioned. If you read through the thread it doesn't look like anyone is really agreeing with you, and I posted a pic of Fed that CLEARLY shows a pistol grip. Not sure what you're arguing about or for ...

Federer curls his finger, he doesn't spread it out. Posters itt have said it's something in between a pistol and a hammer, and I'm fine with that assessment.

In any case, I'm happy not discussing Roger Federer. (Even if he does use a pistol grip, I'd just say, "Ah ha, that's why Nadal beats up on his backhand!")


Question: What grip would you teach a beginner, and why?

LeeD
02-07-2012, 05:45 PM
Spread fingered slice, the easiest backhand to teach.

Chyeaah
02-07-2012, 10:59 PM
I think a factor that why OHBH sucks these days is because the ball bounces higher, It's so hard to hit shoulder high balls with a OHBH compared to a 2HBH

stormholloway
02-07-2012, 11:20 PM
Yeah, all that is definitely important, but the grip is the foundation.

For example, whether you use a pistol grip or a hammer grip will affect your point of contact and how much you should turn your shoulder out. And all those things will affect how you should place and time your step and backswing, and followthrough.

Yeah, and I don't mean to be harsh, but so what? Pick a grip. That's it. There are a lot of little things on court that will affect your shot. The grip isn't the foundation. Your legs are the foundation.

LeeD
02-08-2012, 10:22 AM
"Pick a grip"....
Simplistic? Yes?
Does it work? Yes, to a certain extent.
But, what happens if you're a short guy playing on clay and you pick conti?
Or Dr.Ivo choosing full western backhand to loop balls, but they're all coming in around his knees.
How about... "pick the correct grip for you and the height of incoming balls you are most likely to face? ....

danno123
02-08-2012, 11:49 AM
For my contribution to this thread, I would like to submit what is, without a doubt, the creepiest tennis video ever made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMyQkN2KoWs

Go to about 4:50 to 5:05 to see the backhand grip. Notice how the instructor strokes the student's hand to spread out the fingers, which is both relevant to this discussion and one of the many reasons the video is extremely creepy.

drakulie
02-08-2012, 01:02 PM
Lots of ways to skin a cat. I don't really see anything "modern" being taught here. What I do find interesting is the illustration of lifting the base foot off the ground rather than keeping it firmly planted, which is what was typically taught.

Logan71
02-08-2012, 01:12 PM
Yeah, and I don't mean to be harsh, but so what? Pick a grip. That's it. There are a lot of little things on court that will affect your shot. The grip isn't the foundation. Your legs are the foundation.

I would say grip is the most underated part of tennis.Having played golf where the grip is given pretty much the most significance starting out and affects ballflight considerably if it's wrong,we shouldn't lessen it's impact on tennis strokes.

You need other building blocks sure to build a good backhand but my own experimentation with grips has shown that even the slightest turn of the hand affects racquet face orientation.If you start out wrong you could be popping up backhands long all day even if the rest of your stroke is sound.

If you have too much pistol where the raquet goes through the middle crease on your hand it will be too much in the palm and the face will be vertical or even layed back.However some are saying semi hammer where to my understanding the back of your hand the racquet rests in the heel pad ironically where a good golf grip starts.

I also agree with the point that a full hammer would create a right angle pretty much.Your contact point would be way out front.That reminded me of Igor Andreev who has a full hammer grip on his forehand and he has a 90 degree angle between his forearm and racquet

gregor.b
02-08-2012, 01:14 PM
I have been watching this thread and one of the more obvious things has been said just above: 'Pick a grip that suits'. I am about 5'9 or so and have used a 1hbh all my competitive life (20 plus years) and have been able to change my grip for the height of the ball. I realise pro's get into the correct position with their feet but it is a little hard to do off the return of serve for instance or when you get caught going the wrong way. Admittedly,I am not sure what my b/h grip is called but I know how it feels and where it needs to be at whatever height the balls comes in at. Do the pro's not also possess this ability?

Netspirit
02-08-2012, 01:24 PM
For my contribution to this thread, I would like to submit what is, without a doubt, the creepiest tennis video ever made

Tilden was a convicted serial pedophile, maybe that's why it's creepy.

BevelDevil
02-08-2012, 05:46 PM
I am about 5'9 or so and have used a 1hbh all my competitive life (20 plus years) and have been able to change my grip for the height of the ball.

... Do the pro's not also possess this ability?

This is a great question. I heard that Fed makes adjustments depending on the shot, which may explain so much debate about what grip he uses on the forehand (and now, apparently, the backhand).

For my own game, I use an extreme eastern pistol grip, but having now discovered the eastern hammer, I'm wondering if I could incorporate it into my game for midcourt sitters without messing up my normal backhand.

I guess I'm about to find out.


Btw, Kuerten used an extreme eastern hammer (thumb on outside!), and he's 6'3". I take it he didn't do too well on Wimbledon old grass.

LeeD
02-08-2012, 05:54 PM
Nope, not only tall and lanky, superlong and around takeback, but he didn't like skidding low balls, like most clay courters.

danno123
02-09-2012, 08:11 AM
Tilden was a convicted serial pedophile, maybe that's why it's creepy.

I know. He had a reputation for liking ballboys. That's why I can't believe anyone thought it was a good idea to shoot a film in which Tilden taught tennis to a young boy and why it's especially creepy to see him stroke the kid's hand into position on the racket.