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View Full Version : what makes a racquet a "defensive" racquet


rrito
02-08-2012, 04:22 AM
I've read this somewhere before, that ppl say certain racquets (ie IG speed) are defensive tools. But what about the racquets that give them such title? Balance? SW? distribution of mass? If "defensive" racquets exist, what about "offensive" racquets?

Larrysümmers
02-08-2012, 04:42 AM
rackets that defensive players usually use are mostly, around 11.0-12.0oz, SW around 320 er so, and everything else, head size flex etc, is all based on that particular user.

Rabbit
02-08-2012, 04:45 AM
I've never heard this concept before. I've always heard that there were defensive/offensive players, not racquets.

subz
02-08-2012, 05:26 AM
this one is pretty good:
http://koolatrononline.stores.yahoo.net/lentek-electronic-racket-zapper.html

fuzz nation
02-08-2012, 07:30 PM
I'll throw a yellow card on that one. Players have different skills, including their own defensive shots, and they like different racquets for different performance features. An individual could call one racquet a "defensive racquet" in comparison to another one because that frame works best for that player's defensive shots. Another player might find superior performance from a completely different racquet when hitting in a defensive mode.

No defensive racquets - only defensive shots or modes of play I think.

KenC
02-09-2012, 03:28 AM
???

Come on, this is like asking "what racquet will improve my footwork?" I am always amused at how much people think the racquet can replace talent. Buy an APDGT to generate more spin and don't worry about swinging low to high. Buy a PDR to serve 130mph and forego all the years of building up a great serve. Buy a KPS88 to hit harder instead of learning how to put body mass into our shots. Sooner or later someone will make the connection of a defensive racquet to Murray's racquet and suggest the Radical Pro as the all-time best defensive racquet.

What I want to know is what racquet will win slams all by itself as I sit in a recliner and down a six-pack while flirting with the ball girls?

fuzz nation
02-09-2012, 04:29 AM
What I want to know is what racquet will win slams all by itself as I sit in a recliner and down a six-pack while flirting with the ball girls?

C'mon Ken, let's keep our standards up around here...

...the ball girls in Monaco!!!

Cengusiento
02-09-2012, 05:35 AM
Main atributes of a racket for defensive play must be:

- Light - Maneuverable. Not too much weight in the hoop.
- Stiff & Forgiving- Allow to counterattack easily, with power and depth
- Smooth - Flexible enough to feel the shot (specially on lobs, slices and precision passings shots)
- >98in2

My favourite stick in defensive situations is the Wilson kBlade team. Other options:
- Wilson Pro Open
- Bab Pure drive
- BB pro

subz
02-09-2012, 05:52 AM
Main atributes of a racket for defensive play must be:

- Light - Maneuverable. Not too much weight in the hoop.
- Stiff & Forgiving- Allow to counterattack easily, with power and depth
- Smooth - Flexible enough to feel the shot (specially on lobs, slices and precision passings shots)
- >98in2



I see a contradiction !

Cengusiento
02-09-2012, 05:53 AM
Yep, agree, but those are my requests... ;)

KenC
02-09-2012, 06:57 AM
C'mon Ken, let's keep our standards up around here...

...the ball girls in Monaco!!!

Actually I was thinking of the ballgirls of Madrid!!!!!!

rrito
02-09-2012, 08:35 AM
Main atributes of a racket for defensive play must be:

- Light - Maneuverable. Not too much weight in the hoop.
- Stiff & Forgiving- Allow to counterattack easily, with power and depth
- Smooth - Flexible enough to feel the shot (specially on lobs, slices and precision passings shots)
- >98in2

My favourite stick in defensive situations is the Wilson kBlade team. Other options:
- Wilson Pro Open
- Bab Pure drive
- BB pro


Thanks for breaking it down for me, appreciate the effort :)
KenC i dont know if you're annoyed or just impatient with my post, but I'm not trolling (or even attempting to). I didnt mean to ask a stupid question if this is what you perceive it to be, but c'mon...that entire paragraph dedicated to ridicule? for someone who seems to know the game you can definitely do better than that....

Power Player
02-09-2012, 08:43 AM
KenC is on a mission to prove that all racquets play exactly the same.

vsbabolat
02-09-2012, 09:01 AM
I've never heard this concept before. I've always heard that there were defensive/offensive players, not racquets.

I have not either.

Gimmick
02-09-2012, 09:21 AM
Main atributes of a racket for defensive play must be:

- Light - Maneuverable. Not too much weight in the hoop.
- Stiff & Forgiving- Allow to counterattack easily, with power and depth
- Smooth - Flexible enough to feel the shot (specially on lobs, slices and precision passings shots)
- >98in2

My favourite stick in defensive situations is the Wilson kBlade team. Other options:
- Wilson Pro Open
- Bab Pure drive
- BB pro

Excellent breakdown of a nebulous term. In reference to the MG Prestige Pro it has the perfect blend of just stiff enough to counterattack while still having the feel for shots. If it were just a little larger in the head while retaining all it's other attributes the MGPP would be the perfect defensive racquet. In Murray's hands, given his skill level, it probably is the perfect defensive racquet.

KenC
02-09-2012, 09:53 AM
Thanks for breaking it down for me, appreciate the effort :)
KenC i dont know if you're annoyed or just impatient with my post, but I'm not trolling (or even attempting to). I didnt mean to ask a stupid question if this is what you perceive it to be, but c'mon...that entire paragraph dedicated to ridicule? for someone who seems to know the game you can definitely do better than that....

KenC is on a mission to prove that all racquets play exactly the same.

Actually I'm more like on a mission to kind of bring this forum back down to earth where we can discuss the pros and cons of various racquets, their specs, their technologies, etc., rather than "Which is the best for X." We need to realize that there is no one best overall racquet, there is no best racquet for serves, there is no best racquet for spin, and there is no best racquet for hitting hard, or playing defense, or pushing, or whatever.

Moreover, it is becoming obvious that many here think that somehow using a particular racquet will somehow endow them with some competitive advantage when this is just not true. For example, if you can't generate topspin with your current racquet you will probably not be able to generate incredible topspin with an APDGT. If you can't serve at 100mph with your current racquet, then you won't be able to serve 130mph with a PDR. The only way to generate incredible spin and a 130mph serve is to make the effort to train harder on the techniques that produce them. The racquet doesn't do it for you.

Buying a racquet that is supposedly better at something than other racquets is certainly no guarantee that it will work for you. Let's just say for the moment that the Radical Pro is considered a great defense racquet. Does that mean you will defend better if you buy that racquet?

I think that rather than just telling people to get this racquet for more spin, this racquet for a bigger serve, and this racquet for better defense, we should realize that everyone plays tennis in their own way and we are not clones. What works for you may be a disaster for someone else. Instead, we should use this forum to gather information to make our own judgements based on demos and discussions that go deeper than "Just buy racquet X to produce more Y."

Power Player
02-09-2012, 10:02 AM
A lot of us do exactly that.

You are generalizing and also hoping that everyone who joins here does what you want instead of understanding and accepting that will never happen.

If someone wants a racquet that helps them serve bigger, we can tell them some racquets that most people seem to have good luck serving bigger with.

That is why TW rates its sticks according to serve and spin and other attributes as well.

Would you prefer that they did not?

KenC
02-09-2012, 11:03 AM
A lot of us do exactly that.

You are generalizing and also hoping that everyone who joins here does what you want instead of understanding and accepting that will never happen.

If someone wants a racquet that helps them serve bigger, we can tell them some racquets that most people seem to have good luck serving bigger with.

That is why TW rates its sticks according to serve and spin and other attributes as well.

Would you prefer that they did not?

First of all, I am not generalizing, I am complaining about all the generalizations that go on here.

Q: What racquet has the most spin?

A: The APDGT.

KenC
02-09-2012, 11:09 AM
KenC is on a mission to prove that all racquets play exactly the same.

You are lost in the weeds here. I actually advocate people to not blindly believe the generalizations common here and to start thinking for themselves and actually going out and testing racquets rather than polling an Internet forum.

Power Player
02-09-2012, 11:10 AM
So you do not think the APDGt is a good racquet for a topspin oriented hitter? Should they instead use something else?

How would you like everyone to post here Ken? Lets set up guidelines so everyone words things exactly how you want them to read.

If I am lost in the weeds, I will gladly stay here instead of nitpicking over semantics like you are.

Top Jimmy
02-09-2012, 11:21 AM
Whichever racket turns defense into offense.

KenC
02-09-2012, 11:59 AM
So you do not think the APDGt is a good racquet for a topspin oriented hitter? Should they instead use something else?

How would you like everyone to post here Ken? Lets set up guidelines so everyone words things exactly how you want them to read.

If I am lost in the weeds, I will gladly stay here instead of nitpicking over semantics like you are.

I think you are trying to stretch this into something that it is not. Obviously you don't like my pragmatic approach to things and you are entitled to that, but offer something better than nitpicking and semantics please.

My main points lately:

1. If you are looking for some kind of boost in your game first stop and think if it would be better accomplished through improving technique. Example: I want more topspin. What racquet should I buy? You say buy an APDGT. I say maybe you should try to use better technique to generate more topspin as the differences in topspin capabilities of various racquets may not be that overwhelming.

2. There is no absolutes in tennis racquets, only subjective opinions. Example: Which is better, the PDGT or the APDGT? You say the APDGT, I say go try both and decide for yourself.

3. Everyone has different technique, styles of play, playing levels, strategies, preferences and so on. There is no perfect racquet for everyone, just a wide variety of perfect racquets for a wide variety of tennis players. Example: What is the best racquet? You say the APDGT. I say go out and demo as many as you can until you find your perfect soulmate.

4. Don't believe the common wisdom here and all the marketing hype that surrounds certain racquets. Be educated consumers and test the common wisdom here and the marketing hype with an honest evaluation. Or you could just go buy an APDGT and hope that in addition to all the massive topspin you hope to generate, your elbow will hold out, it won't affect your serve or backhand, you can control the ball easily, can volley well, etc., etc.


You ask if the APDGT is a good racquet for a topspin oriented player. See point #3. If someone doesn't like my response then just go buy one based on the common wisdom of this forum and the TW site. You were warned.

Power Player
02-09-2012, 12:08 PM
Ok, I get it now. This racquet board should be eradicated and everyone should demo everything. Furthermore, the TW ratings system is a total waste of time as are the reviews.

Cool. I think you have made 20 posts on this in the past 2 weeks.

OP, the reason some people say certain racquets suit a more defensive player is usually because they are forgiving sticks (midplus) that allow you to keep working on a point even when pulled on a string..are generally pretty light so you can get a raquet on a ball, and are not always going to provide the huge winner that heavier sticks can assist with.

rrito
02-09-2012, 12:31 PM
Ok, I get it now. This racquet board should be eradicated and everyone should demo everything. Furthermore, the TW ratings system is a total waste of time as are the reviews.

Cool. I think you have made 20 posts on this in the past 2 weeks.

OP, the reason some people say certain racquets suit a more defensive player is usually because they are forgiving sticks (midplus) that allow you to keep working on a point even when pulled on a string..are generally pretty light so you can get a raquet on a ball, and are not always going to provide the huge winner that heavier sticks can assist with.

THank you for the explanation. I found the term "defensive racquet" strange and wanted to know why some ppl might say certain sticks are good for defense. Now i understand, thanks again :)
KenC i get the message you're trying to get across, but I think you're doing it wrong. Perhaps you should start a thread to address this problem so everyone can discuss it openly, instead of posting multiple comments in multiple threads complaining and ridiculing posters (it's not very productive and unpleasant).

KenC
02-09-2012, 12:48 PM
Ok, I get it now. This racquet board should be eradicated and everyone should demo everything. Furthermore, the TW ratings system is a total waste of time as are the reviews.

There you go again stretching hard for something that just isn't there. You obviously don't get it. Obviously you prefer the simplicity of:

Q: What racquet should I buy?
A: Get an APDGT.
Thanks! Great discussion!

If we could just get over the "What is better and best" crap and start to go into a little more detail we would have much more interesting discussions here. If we could get over the common thinking that the racquet somehow defines the technique we could have better discussions here. Why don't we start to put the individuality of the player back into the discussion? After all, the player plays the racquet, or is it the opposite? From what you and a few others post here, it seems that the racquet plays the player.

Power Player
02-09-2012, 12:53 PM
KenC, stop whining and twisting words. You are spamming the forum with nonsense at this point.

OP, glad I could help.

KenC
02-09-2012, 12:59 PM
THank you for the explanation. I found the term "defensive racquet" strange and wanted to know why some ppl might say certain sticks are good for defense. Now i understand, thanks again :)
KenC i get the message you're trying to get across, but I think you're doing it wrong. Perhaps you should start a thread to address this problem so everyone can discuss it openly, instead of posting multiple comments in multiple threads complaining and ridiculing posters (it's not very productive and unpleasant).

I'm sorry that you are taking this personally as this was not meant to ridicule you. I really meant that response to be somewhat lighthearted while obviously suggesting that many people here have to stop thinking of racquets as the driving force of tennis when they are not. Whatever happened to the player and developing talent? Or maybe I should feel like an idiot for playing so much tennis trying to get better when all I have to do is switch racquets?

Power Player
02-09-2012, 01:05 PM
Ken, you are right. None of us play tennis at all. Just you. you are an ubertalented superbeast who can use any racquet yet chooses to champion your own selection in an avatar, even though by all your accounts it should be meaningless.

The rest of us just sit at home on our sofa waiting for our monthly 3.0 match, and if we lose, we go switch sticks again blaming the racquet. None of us invest in lessons, practice, or spend time working on our weaknesses. Just you and your massive drive and talent, standing over us all and looking down from the wings of a golden eagle.

KenC
02-09-2012, 01:26 PM
Ken, you are right. None of us play tennis at all. Just you. you are an ubertalented superbeast who can use any racquet yet chooses to champion your own selection in an avatar, even though by all your accounts it should be meaningless.

The rest of us just sit at home on our sofa waiting for our monthly 3.0 match, and if we lose, we go switch sticks again blaming the racquet. None of us invest in lessons, practice, or spend time working on our weaknesses. Just you and your massive drive and talent, standing over us all and looking down from the wings of a golden eagle.

Feeling threatened by someone who doesn't think like you or go along with your common wisdom? You seem to get very upset and irate and instead of offering a counterargument you just start creating something out of nothing.