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View Full Version : Lead Tape : is 4 grams at 3 and 9 worth counterbalancing?


Power Player
02-14-2012, 10:09 AM
I am going to mess with my pro open and try some lead at 3 and 9. I am thinking 4, 4 inch strips at 3 and 9 should give me 8 pts or so of SW and a little more stability and plow.

I use an overgrip (tourna).

Do I need to counterbalance or in your experience is this pretty minimal in affecting balance considering the OG?

I don't have a balance board unfortunately.

If I decided to balance the bottom back..There is silicone in the handle..instead of using lead under, has anyone used screws into the silicone before and how did that go?

ryushen21
02-14-2012, 10:15 AM
As long as your lead is positioned equally above/below you balance point it should be fine.

corners
02-14-2012, 10:21 AM
I am going to mess with my pro open and try some lead at 3 and 9. I am thinking 4, 4 inch strips at 3 and 9 should give me 8 pts or so of SW and a little more stability and plow.

I use an overgrip (tourna).

Do I need to counterbalance or in your experience is this pretty minimal in affecting balance considering the OG?

I don't have a balance board unfortunately.

If I decided to balance the bottom back..There is silicone in the handle..instead of using lead under, has anyone used screws into the silicone before and how did that go?

Hey PP, Those four grams at 3&9 will move the balance about 2mm. The overgrip will move it about the same amount the other way. So your balance will be about the same. But in my experience counterbalancing head weight is a little trickier than that. If the frame feels sluggish after adding at 3&9 I would try wrapping 5 grams around the top of the grip (in addition to the overgrip). That usually makes the head feel like it comes around quicker, or faster. Wood screws work fine in silicone but adding mass in the butt doesn't have the same quickening effect that lead at the top of the grip does. (At least that's my perception.)

Also, are you sure you need higher twistweight? The Pro Open has twistweight of >14 stock, while the BLX95 is around 11-11.5 (QC issues again). The Open is already very torsionally stable, much more so than the 95. If I were to add lead to the Open I would put it at 12 to stretch the power zone higher, which is how the mass is distributed in the BLX95. Also, twistweight determines how well the racquet resists twisting upon impacts with a ball, but it also tells how much the racquet resists your attempts to pronate through contact. If you have wristy swings, high twistweight might be a bit double-edged for you.

Power Player
02-14-2012, 10:22 AM
Right..well you are saying to counterbalance it then?

My question is more if 4 grams is WORTH counterbalancing or if the balance change is minimal.

I have done this to more head light sticks in the past so I had some clearance. This one is 13" HL currently.

ryushen21
02-14-2012, 10:24 AM
I would say that the difference in swing characteristic/balance would be minimal so not really necessary to counterbalance.

corners
02-14-2012, 10:37 AM
I would say that the difference in swing characteristic/balance would be minimal so not really necessary to counterbalance.

Yeah, probably. But if the head feels sluggish 5 grams at the top of the grip should take care of it.

Power Player
02-14-2012, 10:52 AM
Thanks guys. Corners you make some interesting points.

I could easily just put 2-3 grams of lead at 12 and probably not need to counterbalance is basically what you are saying?

Racer41c
02-14-2012, 11:27 AM
I am going to mess with my pro open and try some lead at 3 and 9. I am thinking 4, 4 inch strips at 3 and 9 should give me 8 pts or so of SW and a little more stability and plow.

I use an overgrip (tourna).

Do I need to counterbalance or in your experience is this pretty minimal in affecting balance considering the OG?

I don't have a balance board unfortunately.

If I decided to balance the bottom back..There is silicone in the handle..instead of using lead under, has anyone used screws into the silicone before and how did that go?

When I played that racquet It responded well to lead at 3/9 and the top of the handle to add stability. But nowadays I'm really enjoying weight at the butt of the racquet.

Power Player
02-14-2012, 11:52 AM
Interesting. It seems like the stick is already extremely stable in stock form according to the data corners posted.

Did you ever try lead at 12 as well? It seems like this stick hits pretty big stock, so I just want a little more plow and Im good.

bad_call
02-14-2012, 12:43 PM
if it was me, i'd also be leading at 12 and the butt since that one is just over 11 oz stock.

CDestroyer
02-14-2012, 12:57 PM
There is probably a good reason Djokovic, Fed and Nadal all add lead at 12.

Its my favorite place to put lead to.

For counter weight I prefer to put the lead right above the butt cap rather than at the top of the grip. Maybe its just preference.

Dude I got an Alpha balance board and a digital postal scale for 50 bucks. I can really tweak the specs with these tools.

Power Player
02-14-2012, 01:00 PM
if it was me, i'd also be leading at 12 and the butt since that one is just over 11 oz stock.

It's 11.4 already with overgrip and damp.

I dont want it too heavy,,thats why I have the 6.1 ;)

Or maybe I do..anyway, thats what Im trying to figure out.

CD, yeah I need to get a balance board. I have the scale. Thats key for sure as well.

I could probably stick lead tape to the underside of the removable buttcap too and tape it on if I needed to counterbalance.

Fed Kennedy
02-14-2012, 01:05 PM
Interesting. It seems like the stick is already extremely stable in stock form according to the data corners posted.

Did you ever try lead at 12 as well? It seems like this stick hits pretty big stock, so I just want a little more plow and Im good.

Its all trial and error with this stuff, but I'd say 2g at 12 and 2 on the handle would be max benefits, keep the frame fast to accentuate the postive aspects and stay within the design parameters of the frame. You already have a 6.1 so you know what a heavy solid stick feels like.
I prefer the 3 and 9 setup because I drive and block the ball much more than rotating through with heavy top, but I think this frame is designed to stay stable on a whipped swing, sounds like you just need a touch more sw, which lead at 12 accomplishes most effieciently.
I would counterbalance bc lead in the hoop always noticeable even in small doses.

all_backhand
02-14-2012, 01:26 PM
It's 11.4 already with overgrip and damp.

I dont want it too heavy,,thats why I have the 6.1 ;)

Or maybe I do..anyway, thats what Im trying to figure out.

CD, yeah I need to get a balance board. I have the scale. Thats key for sure as well.

I could probably stick lead tape to the underside of the removable buttcap too and tape it on if I needed to counterbalance.

The board is definitely more convenient, but, as you may already know, you can figure out the balance without one. I just use a yardstick and a broom handle (edge of a table, pen, anything you can balance the racquet on really) to figure out the balance of my racquets and it's just as accurate as a board providing you take the measurement correctly.

As for the question of counterbalancing, it depends on how it feels to you. The 4 grams makes a noticeable difference to me, but sometimes that difference is preferable. It just depends on the racquet. I'm definitely in the camp that prefers to add weight to the butt cap (a little higher up sometimes) as opposed to at the top of the grip.

bad_call
02-14-2012, 03:30 PM
It's 11.4 already with overgrip and damp.

I dont want it too heavy,,thats why I have the 6.1 ;)

Or maybe I do..anyway, thats what Im trying to figure out.

CD, yeah I need to get a balance board. I have the scale. Thats key for sure as well.

I could probably stick lead tape to the underside of the removable buttcap too and tape it on if I needed to counterbalance.

right...not too heavy. however lead at head will change balance (less HL). might be a good thing but really depends on what suits your game and what you want to achieve...i mean other than a GS trophy. :)

808
02-14-2012, 03:38 PM
PP, do you happen to have a couple of these rubbery grip collar thingies that are standard on most racquets (besides Wilson) lying around? Those are about 2g each and can make for a suitable counter-weight testing device.

Power Player
02-14-2012, 04:07 PM
PP, do you happen to have a couple of these rubbery grip collar thingies that are standard on most racquets (besides Wilson) lying around? Those are about 2g each and can make for a suitable counter-weight testing device.

Great idea. I can use one for sure.

Bc, main thing im going for is a little more consistency but also just seeing the pros and cons of lighter hh vs heavier hl. The pro open and 6.1 feel similar enough to where it is pretty easy to switch around.

bad_call
02-14-2012, 04:38 PM
Great idea. I can use one for sure.

Bc, main thing im going for is a little more consistency but also just seeing the pros and cons of lighter hh vs heavier hl. The pro open and 6.1 feel similar enough to where it is pretty easy to switch around.

gotcha. discuss this more with you next time hitting. btw - is it forecast to rain this weekend?

corners
02-14-2012, 05:13 PM
Thanks guys. Corners you make some interesting points.

I could easily just put 2-3 grams of lead at 12 and probably not need to counterbalance is basically what you are saying?

No, I would still counterbalance at the top of the grip if the head feels sluggish with 2-3 grams at 12. I'm working off travlerajm's MgR/I theory of weight distribution. According to his theory, when you increase swingweight the head slows down in relation to your hand. No big deal, really. But if it feels sluggish to you, like the head is lagging behind your swing too much, then adding mass 7" from the butt takes care of it. That's the theory - which is untested - but it seems to work for me.

Because you've been grooving the BLX95 so happily I would suspect you'll find the Pro Open to swing a little sluggish (because its MgR/I is lower than the BLX95 in stock form). Bumping up the swingweight will only lower it further.

corners
02-14-2012, 05:14 PM
PP, do you happen to have a couple of these rubbery grip collar thingies that are standard on most racquets (besides Wilson) lying around? Those are about 2g each and can make for a suitable counter-weight testing device.

You can also tape small lead fishing weights to the rubber thingys.

TimothyO
02-14-2012, 05:35 PM
I made a balance board from a small piece of plywood, a triangular architectural ruler, and some duct tape (to hold the ruler in place). Cheap, fast, and easy!

Re: the topic, small bits of lead can go a long way but big bits of lead can be fun!

Recently I played around with loading up on the lead. I had my SW up to 333. Yikes! Sluggish as a wet sponge. Oddly enough one handed back hands against slow incoming shots were great fun! Against fast paced shots it was too much for my physique so I was late. Dropped it down to roughly SW 325 and it's manageable and still powerful.

Thepowerofchoice
02-14-2012, 05:55 PM
Hey PP, Those four grams at 3&9 will move the balance about 2mm. The overgrip will move it about the same amount the other way. So your balance will be about the same. But in my experience counterbalancing head weight is a little trickier than that. If the frame feels sluggish after adding at 3&9 I would try wrapping 5 grams around the top of the grip (in addition to the overgrip). That usually makes the head feel like it comes around quicker, or faster. Wood screws work fine in silicone but adding mass in the butt doesn't have the same quickening effect that lead at the top of the grip does. (At least that's my perception.)

Also, are you sure you need higher twistweight? The Pro Open has twistweight of >14 stock, while the BLX95 is around 11-11.5 (QC issues again). The Open is already very torsionally stable, much more so than the 95. If I were to add lead to the Open I would put it at 12 to stretch the power zone higher, which is how the mass is distributed in the BLX95. Also, twistweight determines how well the racquet resists twisting upon impacts with a ball, but it also tells how much the racquet resists your attempts to pronate through contact. If you have wristy swings, high twistweight might be a bit double-edged for you.


^^^This works like a magic and it does makes your racquet play stiffer (crisper) or may be just my perception. Lead at 7" above handle with some electric tape wrap around it seems to also filter out some vibration too.

Xizel
02-14-2012, 06:41 PM
^^^This works like a magic and it does makes your racquet play stiffer (crisper) or may be just my perception. Lead at 7" above handle with some electric tape wrap around it seems to also filter out some vibration too.

With enough weight there, the racquet will play stiffer. The dynamic stiffness increases with more weight added near the throat.

corners
02-14-2012, 07:30 PM
With enough weight there, the racquet will play stiffer. The dynamic stiffness increases with more weight added near the throat.

I think he meant 7" above butt, so top of the handle. Lead added there won't increase dynamic stiffness because it will be at one of the vibration nodes. Hmm, but the node moves down toward the hand when the racquet is gripped, so maybe mass at 7" does increse dynamic stiffness.

Thepowerofchoice
02-14-2012, 08:35 PM
I think Lead added there won't inc he meant 7" above butt, so top of the handle increase dynamic stiffness because it will be at one of the vibration nodes. Hmm, but the node moves down toward the hand when the racquet is gripped, so maybe mass at 7" does increse dynamic stiffness.

^^^Yes I meant 7" above butt. I have read some where on here by Travlerajm that it does increase dynamic stiffness. Here is interesting read.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=4300692&postcount=128

Power Player
02-14-2012, 08:44 PM
No, I would still counterbalance at the top of the grip if the head feels sluggish with 2-3 grams at 12. I'm working off travlerajm's MgR/I theory of weight distribution. According to his theory, when you increase swingweight the head slows down in relation to your hand. No big deal, really. But if it feels sluggish to you, like the head is lagging behind your swing too much, then adding mass 7" from the butt takes care of it. That's the theory - which is untested - but it seems to work for me.

Because you've been grooving the BLX95 so happily I would suspect you'll find the Pro Open to swing a little sluggish (because its MgR/I is lower than the BLX95 in stock form). Bumping up the swingweight will only lower it further.

Badcall..I think the weather should be good this weekend.

corners, the Pro Open feels real fast actually. I am super early with it at times, but I just got it and it is an ounce lighter than my 6.1.

I could easily lead at it at 12, and I just want a little more plow. The thing hits big, and it comes through the air a lot faster for me so far, even though the balance is more HHeavy.

Got the stick because I wanted to experiment and see what weight is ideal for me. It may take a little time to figure it all out, so I bought a few Pro Opens to customize and my 6.1s will remain stock. I could easily end up just buying more 6.1s, but having a lighter stick in the bag is never a bad thing, especially with the spring and summer heat only months away.

corners
02-15-2012, 11:55 AM
Badcall..I think the weather should be good this weekend.

corners, the Pro Open feels real fast actually. I am super early with it at times, but I just got it and it is an ounce lighter than my 6.1.

I could easily lead at it at 12, and I just want a little more plow. The thing hits big, and it comes through the air a lot faster for me so far, even though the balance is more HHeavy.

Got the stick because I wanted to experiment and see what weight is ideal for me. It may take a little time to figure it all out, so I bought a few Pro Opens to customize and my 6.1s will remain stock. I could easily end up just buying more 6.1s, but having a lighter stick in the bag is never a bad thing, especially with the spring and summer heat only months away.

Ok, looking forward to reading your impressions. It's kind of the classic comparison - two sticks similar in swingweight but one with an extra ounce in the handle.