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JohnMT
02-14-2012, 10:00 PM
Hey all. I know this has been discussed on this forum before in the past, but I was looking for a little more information on the topic of minimalist shoes for tennis. And the vivobarefoot shoes just aren't an option for me unfortunately :(

It's kind of a unique situation in that I can't wear the vivobarefoot shoes... they don't come in my size. The vibram komodosports don't either (I'd wear a size 38 if they did). I wish those did come in my size, as my size 38 KSOs are awesome!

I'm a small guy, with size 7 (US) shoes, so finding shoes in my size is difficult enough.. finding minimalist shoes in my size is really difficult... now finding minimalist shoes that are good for tennis in my size.. well... You get the picture :)

So I'm looking for any recommendations of shoes that are good minimalist tennis shoes, last long enough on the courts, and are good for lateral movement on the courts.

Anyone had any good experiences with any particular types or have any suggestions?

USERNAME
02-14-2012, 10:07 PM
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/New_Balance_MC_851_BlackYellow_D/descpageMSNB-NBM51BD.html
New Balance MC 851
Your not talking about using legit minimalist runners for tennis right? You will break your ankles.

Maui19
02-15-2012, 04:24 AM
I'd put the Asics Solution Speed in that category.

jtrain_36
02-15-2012, 04:33 AM
Using a shoe like VFF's or any other minimal shoes will destroy the ligaments in your ankles. They are designed to move in one direction, not suitable for tennis IMO.

Povl Carstensen
02-15-2012, 07:05 AM
Your not talking about using legit minimalist runners for tennis right? You will break your ankles.

Using a shoe like VFF's or any other minimal shoes will destroy the ligaments in your ankles. They are designed to move in one direction, not suitable for tennis IMO.
No you will not break your ankles. And what will destroy the ligaments in your ankles is you tripping over in regular, high of the ground-tennis shoes.
To be blunt: tennisshoes do not support your ankles unless you play in ski boots.
And to the OP: I guess you might have to look at the Vivo Barefoot in womens sizes, hope you can find something agreable. Also there are other Vibrams than the models you have mentioned.

NJ1
02-15-2012, 09:00 AM
No you will not break your ankles. And what will destroy the ligaments in your ankles is you tripping over in regular, high of the ground-tennis shoes.
To be blunt: tennisshoes do not support your ankles unless you play in ski boots.
And to the OP: I guess you might have to look at the Vivo Barefoot in womens sizes, hope you can find something agreable. Also there are other Vibrams than the models you have mentioned.

Changing to tennis-specific shoes from playing in running shoes/skate shoes totally rid me of my ankle pain which lasted for 48 hours after playing tennis.

racquetfreak
02-15-2012, 09:43 AM
No you will not break your ankles. And what will destroy the ligaments in your ankles is you tripping over in regular, high of the ground-tennis shoes.
To be blunt: tennisshoes do not support your ankles unless you play in ski boots.And to the OP: I guess you might have to look at the Vivo Barefoot in womens sizes, hope you can find something agreable. Also there are other Vibrams than the models you have mentioned.

if i could find ski boots with flexible, court-friendly soles/forefoot-toe uppers, i definitely would give them a try. i have an ankle sprain (7/4/10) that just won't heal.

USERNAME
02-15-2012, 10:56 AM
No you will not break your ankles. And what will destroy the ligaments in your ankles is you tripping over in regular, high of the ground-tennis shoes.
To be blunt: tennisshoes do not support your ankles unless you play in ski boots.
And to the OP: I guess you might have to look at the Vivo Barefoot in womens sizes, hope you can find something agreable. Also there are other Vibrams than the models you have mentioned.

Really? Why is it that we dont see more of the legit players wearing the lighter runners? I have yet to see anyone in D1 and D2 tennis teams in runners, let alone pros.
It's the way the sole is made. Tennis specific shoes have wide soles that cover more area while minimalists have thin soles width wise that will cause ankle rolls! Without fail! Tennis shoes protect your ankles a hell of a lot more than just about any purpose built runners.

banter
02-15-2012, 12:32 PM
I do not have experience with any minimalist shoes on the court but I do have some INOV8s which I use for running and vertical movements. I don't trust such shoes for lateral movements. I do wish to see companies put out shoes with less of a heel or zero drop that are for tennis use.

WildVolley
02-15-2012, 02:19 PM
Using a shoe like VFF's or any other minimal shoes will destroy the ligaments in your ankles. They are designed to move in one direction, not suitable for tennis IMO.

Povl C already answered this well. The weakness of some V5Fs is that they don't attach tightly enough to the foot and might roll around the foot on hard lateral stops. This isn't the case for those that strap down tightly.

Lifting your foot off the court by wearing highly cushioned shoes increases the torque on your ankles when stopping and increases the risk of turning the ankle. In low shoes it is very, very difficult to turn the ankle when playing tennis.

I just turned my ankle bad running in a grass field because I didn't see a hole (the grass had grown up) and worse yet there was a pipe sticking up in the hole. I'm on crutches now and hope to recover in a few weeks. I was wearing shoes and it probably helped keep my foot from getting cut.

Tennis courts are actually extremely easy surfaces on which to avoid turning an ankle. If you are strong, it should only happen when pushing your limits.

JohnMT
02-15-2012, 07:43 PM
Thank you all for the opinions and info :)

I'd love to try a pair of VFF KomodoSports for tennis, but they are all size 40 or above. My experience with women's sizes in the VFF, and other shoes haven't been too good... way too narrow. Most of the other VFF shoes only come in size 40 or higher for men too.

Has anyone tried the onitsuka tiger "mexico 66" by asics? If so, how did they hold up on the courts? I'm hoping to find something that not only very minimalist but also that will hold up fairly well.

The reason I'm really interested in finding something like this for tennis is that I've had knee and ankle problems for many years... going back to when I played in high school. A couple years ago I ditched all the regular shoes and started wearing either my KSOs, going barefoot or wearing other minimalist shoes (no arch, very thin sole, etc) for everything. No more ankle or knee problems.

Now in my early 30s, my knees and ankles feel so much better than when I was in high school... so I hope you understand the reluctance to go back to normal style tennis shoes.

Rolling an ankle for me would be really tough to do in tennis. My knees, ankles and hip joints aren't exactly "normal". The only time I've ever rolled an ankle playing sports is when doing something like stepping on someone else's foot in basketball.

Povl Carstensen
02-16-2012, 06:26 AM
Changing to tennis-specific shoes from playing in running shoes/skate shoes totally rid me of my ankle pain which lasted for 48 hours after playing tennis.
Well I am not suggesting you play in running shoes or skate shoes.

Really? Why is it that we dont see more of the legit players wearing the lighter runners? I have yet to see anyone in D1 and D2 tennis teams in runners, let alone pros.
It's the way the sole is made. Tennis specific shoes have wide soles that cover more area while minimalists have thin soles width wise that will cause ankle rolls! Without fail! Tennis shoes protect your ankles a hell of a lot more than just about any purpose built runners.Again, I am not suggestioning running shoes. People roll their ankles all the time, and with worse effect, in tennis specific shoes. True minimalist shoes are so low to the ground (no padding/shockdampening/midsole) that it minimizes rolling, and the effect of it, should it happen. I have yet to hear of someone rolling their ankle barefoot, or in minimal shoes like Vivo Barefoot. Actually they were developed specifically by a tennisplayer to avoid rolling. Vivo Barefoot are not purpose built runners, this goes for a lot of the Vibrams too.
Personally I have never hurt my ankles barefoot or in minimal shoes. But I did roll and sprain my ankle, leaving me out of sports for 3 months, in a pair of Asics Gel Encourage (otherwise a good tennis shoe I would say).
To JohnMT. I have had all kinds of knee and foot problems also, used prescribed orthodics etc etc. And have the same experience, never felt better, since changing to minimalist shoes/barefoot. And my foot speed is better.

USERNAME
02-16-2012, 12:09 PM
Well I am not suggesting you play in running shoes or skate shoes.

Again, I am not suggestioning running shoes. People roll their ankles all the time, and with worse effect, in tennis specific shoes. True minimalist shoes are so low to the ground (no padding/shockdampening/midsole) that it minimizes rolling, and the effect of it, should it happen. I have yet to hear of someone rolling their ankle barefoot, or in minimal shoes like Vivo Barefoot. Actually they were developed specifically by a tennisplayer to avoid rolling. Vivo Barefoot are not purpose built runners, this goes for a lot of the Vibrams too.
Personally I have never hurt my ankles barefoot or in minimal shoes. But I did roll and sprain my ankle, leaving me out of sports for 3 months, in a pair of Asics Gel Encourage (otherwise a good tennis shoe I would say).
To JohnMT. I have had all kinds of knee and foot problems also, used prescribed orthodics etc etc. And have the same experience, never felt better, since changing to minimalist shoes/barefoot. And my foot speed is better.

At my club and the public courts I used as a junior, Id seen guys roll their ankles a few times in what looked to be either trainers or running shoes. The ONE time I played in a pair of adidas marathons, I rolled my ankle landing just slightly on the edge of the sole post fh. Ive never rolled my ankle in that way in ANY tennis shoe Ive used. Only time I rolled my ankle in tennis shoes is when I was wrong-footed and had to really stop and lunge very quick. I also like the fact that tennis shoes protect my joints, I need the sole to dampen the shock from me running hard and lifting off the ground after most shots. Minimal shoes might work for a guy who is a twig and isnt physical, but for me, its a big no to minimalists on court.
Also a NO from my current college coach and past coaches, my old coach would tell rec players to buy tennis shoes so they wont hurt themselves.

JohnMT
02-16-2012, 07:30 PM
At my club and the public courts I used as a junior, Id seen guys roll their ankles a few times in what looked to be either trainers or running shoes. The ONE time I played in a pair of adidas marathons, I rolled my ankle landing just slightly on the edge of the sole post fh. Ive never rolled my ankle in that way in ANY tennis shoe Ive used. Only time I rolled my ankle in tennis shoes is when I was wrong-footed and had to really stop and lunge very quick. I also like the fact that tennis shoes protect my joints, I need the sole to dampen the shock from me running hard and lifting off the ground after most shots. Minimal shoes might work for a guy who is a twig and isnt physical, but for me, its a big no to minimalists on court.
Also a NO from my current college coach and past coaches, my old coach would tell rec players to buy tennis shoes so they wont hurt themselves.

I don't think a person has to be a twig for it to be OK really. Sure, I was a twig in high school playing tennis (5'2" 95lbs). Not so much a twig now though.

Obviously one wouldn't want to go from normal tennis shoes to minimalist immediately, just like you wouldn't want to be a runner in regular shoes then go to running barefoot immediately. It takes a long time for the muscles that haven't been used much to build back up and be able to handle something like that.

I already went through the "oh my god my calf muscles and feet are killing me" phase when I first started wearing these types of shoes regularly for physical activities. It lasted for a while, then I really started to notice a huge difference in the strength of my calf muscles as well as my ankles and knees no longer bothering me. The difference was amazing... I really wish I had tried this back in high school. My tennis bag back then was like a mobile pharmacy of pain meds, knee braces, and stuff like that.

Really it's just whatever works well for the particular person though. If tennis shoes are working well for you, then great! I'm not trying to convince anyone to switch... I'm just trying to find something that will work well for me and not put me back to the path of knee and ankle problems again like what plagued me through most of my life. I kind of like having the muscles down there able to actually pull their weight now and not just relying on the shoes to handle all that.

I've still got a couple months to find something that'll work and that will hold up on the courts. Too much snow on the ground to play tennis yet out here.

I do think that my KSOs probably won't work too well. They are a little more "sloppy" on the foot and not too tight. That's why I was interested in the KomodoSports... Maybe they'll put those out in a 38 eventually. If not it sounds like there are some other alternatives out there which might work. Thanks again for the info and discussion on this :)

USERNAME
02-16-2012, 08:01 PM
I don't think a person has to be a twig for it to be OK really. Sure, I was a twig in high school playing tennis (5'2" 95lbs). Not so much a twig now though.

Obviously one wouldn't want to go from normal tennis shoes to minimalist immediately, just like you wouldn't want to be a runner in regular shoes then go to running barefoot immediately. It takes a long time for the muscles that haven't been used much to build back up and be able to handle something like that.

I already went through the "oh my god my calf muscles and feet are killing me" phase when I first started wearing these types of shoes regularly for physical activities. It lasted for a while, then I really started to notice a huge difference in the strength of my calf muscles as well as my ankles and knees no longer bothering me. The difference was amazing... I really wish I had tried this back in high school. My tennis bag back then was like a mobile pharmacy of pain meds, knee braces, and stuff like that.

Really it's just whatever works well for the particular person though. If tennis shoes are working well for you, then great! I'm not trying to convince anyone to switch... I'm just trying to find something that will work well for me and not put me back to the path of knee and ankle problems again like what plagued me through most of my life. I kind of like having the muscles down there able to actually pull their weight now and not just relying on the shoes to handle all that.

I've still got a couple months to find something that'll work and that will hold up on the courts. Too much snow on the ground to play tennis yet out here.

I do think that my KSOs probably won't work too well. They are a little more "sloppy" on the foot and not too tight. That's why I was interested in the KomodoSports... Maybe they'll put those out in a 38 eventually. If not it sounds like there are some other alternatives out there which might work. Thanks again for the info and discussion on this :)

Invest in custom orthotics and find a lightER tennis shoe like the New Balance model I linked. If you wanna play at a decently high level safely you need the traction and support from a legit tennis shoe. It's not practical to play in minimalist type shoes, it's just unsafe. Anyone who came to the coaches I worked with in something that wasn't at least a mid-trainer or BBall shoes were told next time they come in those they'd be sitting.

bluetrain4
02-16-2012, 08:18 PM
Using a shoe like VFF's or any other minimal shoes will destroy the ligaments in your ankles. They are designed to move in one direction, not suitable for tennis IMO.

I was going to say that. Running, your feet are moving straight ahead and you generally know when and where your foot will strike. Nothing is really sudden and you don't have to make the sort of direction changes and severe cuts as you do in tennis.4

And, minimalist shoes aren't even fool proof in a running context. Sure, they're the "in" thing, and I've met plenty of runners who swear by them, who have been able to heal injuries, who have really benefited. But, that's only half the story. I've also know runners who said it was the biggest mistake they've ever made and were injured as a result. Depends on the person.

Povl Carstensen
02-16-2012, 10:16 PM
At my club and the public courts I used as a junior, Id seen guys roll their ankles a few times in what looked to be either trainers or running shoes. The ONE time I played in a pair of adidas marathons, I rolled my ankle landing just slightly on the edge of the sole post fh. Ive never rolled my ankle in that way in ANY tennis shoe Ive used. Only time I rolled my ankle in tennis shoes is when I was wrong-footed and had to really stop and lunge very quick. I also like the fact that tennis shoes protect my joints, I need the sole to dampen the shock from me running hard and lifting off the ground after most shots. Minimal shoes might work for a guy who is a twig and isnt physical, but for me, its a big no to minimalists on court.
Also a NO from my current college coach and past coaches, my old coach would tell rec players to buy tennis shoes so they wont hurt themselves.Well I am not talking about running shoes... And seems you have rolled your ankle in tennis shoes. If you are happy with tennis shoes then its perfectly ok with me, but other people can have other experiences with things you have not tried.

Povl Carstensen
02-16-2012, 10:21 PM
Invest in custom orthotics and find a lightER tennis shoe like the New Balance model I linked. If you wanna play at a decently high level safely you need the traction and support from a legit tennis shoe. It's not practical to play in minimalist type shoes, it's just unsafe. Anyone who came to the coaches I worked with in something that wasn't at least a mid-trainer or BBall shoes were told next time they come in those they'd be sitting.Custom orthodics is just what I wasted a lot of money on with baad results. You can get traction from minimalist shoes, and support from the ground (yes). And I'm guessing those coaches did not have much first hand experience with minimalist shoes.
But still, what works for you is fine with me.

Povl Carstensen
02-16-2012, 10:31 PM
I was going to say that. Running, your feet are moving straight ahead and you generally know when and where your foot will strike. Nothing is really sudden and you don't have to make the sort of direction changes and severe cuts as you do in tennis.4

And, minimalist shoes aren't even fool proof in a running context. Sure, they're the "in" thing, and I've met plenty of runners who swear by them, who have been able to heal injuries, who have really benefited. But, that's only half the story. I've also know runners who said it was the biggest mistake they've ever made and were injured as a result. Depends on the person.VFF's were not originally designed for running, the same goes for Vivo Barefoot. They handle direction changes very well. But, yes they have benefitted a lot of runners. I am guessing for those with bad results, it is mainly due to overdoing it in the beginning or bad technique. But still, I only want people to do what works for them.

JohnMT
02-16-2012, 10:32 PM
Invest in custom orthotics and find a lightER tennis shoe like the New Balance model I linked. If you wanna play at a decently high level safely you need the traction and support from a legit tennis shoe. It's not practical to play in minimalist type shoes, it's just unsafe. Anyone who came to the coaches I worked with in something that wasn't at least a mid-trainer or BBall shoes were told next time they come in those they'd be sitting.

Not safe because of the ankle rolling? I really fail to see how someone could roll an ankle while basically barefoot... And besides, the way my feet and ankles are built it's not very likely I'll roll an ankle no matter what shoes I'm wearing out there.

Also on the ankle issue, the VivoBarefoot shoes were started by a guy who suffered many twisted ankles in tennis with regular tennis shoes. So he tried to find a way to minimize that.

If regular tennis shoes work for you that's great... They obviously work for a lot of people. They might not work well for some people though. Just like minimalist shoes work well for me and others, but may not work well for you.

I'm not trying to start an argument over minimalist vs regular tennis shoe here :) I'm just looking for input from people who have used minimalist type shoes on the tennis court, and which types they found to be the best and most durable.

And to the OP: I guess you might have to look at the Vivo Barefoot in womens sizes, hope you can find something agreable. Also there are other Vibrams than the models you have mentioned.

It turns out I was wrong about the sizing on the Vivo Barefoot shoes. Size 40 = Size 7 in US in those, so they actually do have some that should fit in Men's sizes. Have you tried a particular style of those with good results that you'd recommend?

Povl Carstensen
02-16-2012, 10:40 PM
I have played tennis and squash in the Evo, Neo and Aqua models. The Aqua is very low to the ground and comfortable. The Evo and Neo have a slightly thicker and narrower sole, so they are slightly less "barefoot" feeling. But they have better traction, if you play on clay, and more durability because of the thicker sole I would guess. By the way the Aqua is now called Aqua lite and is more light weight than the old model. Hope this helps.

USERNAME
02-17-2012, 12:47 AM
I run sprints in training and distance for fun. Most of my former coaches ran 3-4 times a week, my last coaches wife is a competitive runner, you will never see any of them using any running shoe on the court for serious play or practice. Personally I run in the CC Rides and just got some Charge RCs (AWESOME shoe) but also got a pair of Minimus Trails from my gf, I'd not be caught dead on a tennis court in any of those unless I was running sprints. I do have experience with a lot of different shoes and I can tell you that there's a reason tennis shoes are TENNIS shoes, they are built to protect your feet in the sudden starts and stops and changes in directions.
I have rolled my ankle, running sprints in the Rides and in the Barricade 5, the roll in the Rides were worse. The way I play I put my body under a ton of stress, I'm off the ground on just about every forehand and will try to run everything down, because of this I need shoes that will keep me safe and stable. If you just bat the ball around feel free to use slippers for all I care, but if your an actual competitor you should be in specific tennis shoes.
And if you think you can't roll your ankle barefoot, try street rugby or football. Not hard.

Povl Carstensen
02-17-2012, 02:38 AM
I dont know all the shoes you are talking about, but if you are talking about running shoes with a midsole (lift) we have no disagreement (I think I have stated this quite a lot of times now). We do however disagree on the stableness of being very close to the ground. As JohnMT states and I can confirm it is really hard to roll in barefeet/minimal shoes, unless perhaps you step on a ball or something (but this is the same with shoes). And shoes worsens the impact.

USERNAME
02-17-2012, 03:20 AM
Like I said, play football or rugby or ultimate frisbee (if your that type) barefoot. You can roll your ankle barefoot with a sudden stop or change in direction or landing wrong, all those things can happen playing tennis.
Minimus are the new NB minimalist shoes, nice for running BAAAD for tennis. CC Rides I wouldn't put in the minimalist category, they are very light and low but still a bit higher than say the Minimus. The Charge RC is UA's flagship shoe, they looked sick so I bought them and they are crazy smooth rides. I'll say it again, it you just bat the ball around wear whatever the hell you want, if your a serious player get the right equipment. There's a reason, other than cash, why pros and good college players use purpose built tennis shoes.

Povl Carstensen
02-17-2012, 05:11 AM
People roll their ankles in tennis shoes all the time (just look at the threads here). I have looked at the shoes: Charge is clearly a running shoe with elevation and midsole, would not recommend for tennis. Minimus looks better, but still elevated (but have you tried it for tennis, or you just "know"?). CC Ride according to you is a running shoe and not minimalist.
I hate to repeat myself, but Vivo Barefoot was developed by a tennissplayer to prevent rolling the ankle, and it proved to be the solution.

Povl Carstensen
02-17-2012, 05:24 AM
Really? Why is it that we dont see more of the legit players wearing the lighter runners? I have yet to see anyone in D1 and D2 tennis teams in runners, let alone pros.
Again, were not talking lighter running shoes. I have yet to hear of any D1 or D2 players trying out minimalist shoes and dismissing it. And pros are under contract with makers of traditional tennis shoes.
I would love if some of the more serious players here would give it a go and report their experiences. But, do not start out with a 3 hour match, 15 minutes or half an hour would be a good place to start.
Also I would love to see the tennisshoe makers come out with tennis specific minimal shoes, ie shoes with little or preferably no midsole and outsoles specific for tennis traction and wear. And I am pretty shure it will happen in a year or two. However, I fear that companies like Nike would only go half way, like they did with their Free running shoes.
And sorry for highjacking the thread, JohnMT.

jmverdugo
02-17-2012, 06:00 AM
I have not tried any of this "minimalist" shoes but I am not sure they can handle a lateral stop after full speed, the shock on the heel is a main concern and maybe is just me but it seems like there could be some lateral slippage between the foot and the shoe. Even for stops while running forward I have a feeling like they could hurt your toes more than normal tennis shoes.

I guess that the level at what you play or your playing style has a lot to do too. I mean if you do not run for sure you will not have to stop and definitely do not have the risk to roll over your ankle.

phaedrus
02-17-2012, 06:14 AM
My partner and I have been investigating minimalist shoes for some time now. My latest try is a pair of Merrill barefoot trail gloves. They have zero drop and a large toe box. They feel like you are barefoot and make me lighter on my feet, springing from the toes and not pounding my feet -- better proprioceptive input.

However... as others have pointed out, tennis is not like static running; there is far more start and stop and lateral movement. As far as I have discovered, minimalist shoes are just not cushioned enough, including my Merrills. I did take a gel insert and cut it to fit my Merrill's which helped, but I'm not sure I will stick with them for hard court play. When I get to clay later this year, I *will* be wearing the Merrills. Another problem is that the soles of minimalist shoes tend to wear very quickly. The Merrills have Vibram soles, but the friction necessary to change directions on hard courts seems to wear them out too quickly.

So, for hard courts, I wear old style Adidas Rod Laver. While heavier and higher off the ground than I'd like, they don't have all the high-tech "support" that I dislike. I am always looking for a lightweight, zero drop, minimalist support tennis shoe.

CDestroyer
02-17-2012, 06:18 AM
You need very strong ankles to play with the 13-15 ounce shoes made for tennis. Other wise you will roll your ankles on some lateral moves.

I wouldn't dream of playing in any other type of shoe. Your asking for a long term injury.

USERNAME
02-17-2012, 12:10 PM
Again, were not talking lighter running shoes. I have yet to hear of any D1 or D2 players trying out minimalist shoes and dismissing it. And pros are under contract with makers of traditional tennis shoes.
I would love if some of the more serious players here would give it a go and report their experiences. But, do not start out with a 3 hour match, 15 minutes or half an hour would be a good place to start.
Also I would love to see the tennisshoe makers come out with tennis specific minimal shoes, ie shoes with little or preferably no midsole and outsoles specific for tennis traction and wear. And I am pretty shure it will happen in a year or two. However, I fear that companies like Nike would only go half way, like they did with their Free running shoes.
And sorry for highjacking the thread, JohnMT.

Ive never seen a top junior in minimalists OR running shoes at itfs, nats, or even sectionals. Ive yet to see a journeyman in minimalist shoes at the futures or challenger level, as in a guy without a sponsorship. Ive used the minimus, which are categorized as minimalist, for sprints... Forward and back on grass they were good, 4 point shuttle runs and I almost turned an ankle twice. The only reason I didnt roll is because I chose to fall over rather than try to regain my footing. Shuttle runs are quick starts and stops, with 4 pointers it also adds in change in direction, same crap done on a tennis court during a point (actually shuttle runs are easier imo) and I went up on the edge of the shoe an tweaked my ankle but luckily did not fully roll it.

USERNAME
02-17-2012, 12:18 PM
I have not tried any of this "minimalist" shoes but I am not sure they can handle a lateral stop after full speed, the shock on the heel is a main concern and maybe is just me but it seems like there could be some lateral slippage between the foot and the shoe. Even for stops while running forward I have a feeling like they could hurt your toes more than normal tennis shoes.

I guess that the level at what you play or your playing style has a lot to do too. I mean if you do not run for sure you will not have to stop and definitely do not have the risk to roll over your ankle.

Exactly.

My partner and I have been investigating minimalist shoes for some time now. My latest try is a pair of Merrill barefoot trail gloves. They have zero drop and a large toe box. They feel like you are barefoot and make me lighter on my feet, springing from the toes and not pounding my feet -- better proprioceptive input.

However... as others have pointed out, tennis is not like static running; there is far more start and stop and lateral movement. As far as I have discovered, minimalist shoes are just not cushioned enough, including my Merrills. I did take a gel insert and cut it to fit my Merrill's which helped, but I'm not sure I will stick with them for hard court play. When I get to clay later this year, I *will* be wearing the Merrills. Another problem is that the soles of minimalist shoes tend to wear very quickly. The Merrills have Vibram soles, but the friction necessary to change directions on hard courts seems to wear them out too quickly.

So, for hard courts, I wear old style Adidas Rod Laver. While heavier and higher off the ground than I'd like, they don't have all the high-tech "support" that I dislike. I am always looking for a lightweight, zero drop, minimalist support tennis shoe.

Cool that you actually play in these but yeah, they arent safe for the type of movement in tennis. Let me know how the clay works out, Id think there would be a huge slippage problem if your moving around decently quick.

phaedrus
02-17-2012, 12:52 PM
Exactly.

Cool that you actually play in these but yeah, they arent safe for the type of movement in tennis. Let me know how the clay works out, Id think there would be a huge slippage problem if your moving around decently quick.

We're going to have to disagree on "safe". I look at the potential for ankle rolling this way -- if you were to play tennis in platform shoes (high off the ground), or socks (low to the ground), which is most likely to result in a turned ankle? The higher shoes... the further away from the ground your foot is. And while I think the Merrills could use more padding as tennis shoes, there is a trade off to be made. More padding means more cushioning for the sudden changes of direction needed (good), but more padding also means less feel (proprioceptive input) from your feet (bad). We've found we pound the ground much less in minimalist shoes, and believe this is because we (our neuromusculoskeletal system) can feel the ground better. In more cushioned shoes we tend to slam our feet down harder in order to feel the ground and our weight distribution. Again, a trade off that, we think, has gone waaaay to far in isolating the sensors in your feet from the surface in which they interact.

USERNAME
02-17-2012, 01:25 PM
We're going to have to disagree on "safe". I look at the potential for ankle rolling this way -- if you were to play tennis in platform shoes (high off the ground), or socks (low to the ground), which is most likely to result in a turned ankle? The higher shoes... the further away from the ground your foot is. And while I think the Merrills could use more padding as tennis shoes, there is a trade off to be made. More padding means more cushioning for the sudden changes of direction needed (good), but more padding also means less feel (proprioceptive input) from your feet (bad). We've found we pound the ground much less in minimalist shoes, and believe this is because we (our neuromusculoskeletal system) can feel the ground better. In more cushioned shoes we tend to slam our feet down harder in order to feel the ground and our weight distribution. Again, a trade off that, we think, has gone waaaay to far in isolating the sensors in your feet from the surface in which they interact.

I have still not rolled my ankle on the dead run for a shot, the times I rolled mine were when I landed wrong after a serve and forehand. At that point it wouldnt matter what your wearing (or not wearing) your ankle is gonna turn. Also, ever slide on hardcourt? I wouldnt try it with a minimalist personally, your welcome to though, if your playing at a high level that forces you to run at the speed it takes to slide youd better be in tennis shoes. That wide sole on tennis shoes are there to ensure you have alot of contact with the court so that when you hit the breaks you dont fall over (or TURN something). When Ive seen someone roll while running its always been player error, ie they try to make a huge change in direction or speed going way too fast, not the shoes fault. Tennis shoes are built for tennis, to keep the ankle, knees, and back safe.

WildVolley
02-17-2012, 01:42 PM
It is possible to roll your ankle bare foot or in shoes. However, on a smooth surface like a tennis court, I think it is easier to roll your ankle wearing shoes as they lift your foot off the surface and tend to fail critically and roll or trip you.

However, most tennis players want shoes because they do protect the foot from abrasion and impact.

I'm not a fan of the super-heavy, combat boot style of tennis shoe and prefer a more minimalist design. One of my dislikes is that so many shoes have a raised heel. This is actually an unathletic position because it pre-tenses the calve muscles and limits the ability to push off. Just as sprint spikes do not have a built up heel, the footbed of a tennis shoe should be level in my opinion. I'm interested in trying the new lightweight shoe from NB. I'd like to see a tennis shoe that weights under 10 ounces but still has a decent outsole.

USERNAME
02-17-2012, 01:58 PM
It is possible to roll your ankle bare foot or in shoes. However, on a smooth surface like a tennis court, I think it is easier to roll your ankle wearing shoes as they lift your foot off the surface and tend to fail critically and roll or trip you.

However, most tennis players want shoes because they do protect the foot from abrasion and impact.

I'm not a fan of the super-heavy, combat boot style of tennis shoe and prefer a more minimalist design. One of my dislikes is that so many shoes have a raised heel. This is actually an unathletic position because it pre-tenses the calve muscles and limits the ability to push off. Just as sprint spikes do not have a built up heel, the footbed of a tennis shoe should be level in my opinion. I'm interested in trying the new lightweight shoe from NB. I'd like to see a tennis shoe that weights under 10 ounces but still has a decent outsole.

Your not supposed to be on your heels? When you split before you hit your supposed to land on the balls of your feet... When your waiting for a serve your supposed to be on the forefoot ready to split. The heel cushioning is there for when you jump back (for say an overhead maybe) or for when you make a wide lunge and slam on the heel. There is a reason for these differences that tennis shoes have. You won't ever see a player playing at the D1 or pro level in a shoe that is built like a minimalist because they move, jump, and run so hard that they would be looking at an injury if they did.

Povl Carstensen
02-18-2012, 07:43 AM
I have still not rolled my ankle on the dead run for a shot, the times I rolled mine were when I landed wrong after a serve and forehand. At that point it wouldnt matter what your wearing (or not wearing) your ankle is gonna turn. I have to disagree on this. In an elevated shoe the torque is increased so that you get the turn resulting in a sprain, closer to the ground this will happen more rarely.
When Ive seen someone roll while running its always been player error, ie they try to make a huge change in direction or speed going way too fast, not the shoes fault. Tennis shoes are built for tennis, to keep the ankle, knees, and back safe.So it is the players fault? But what if it would not happen in other shoes? Without the torque, without the edge of the shoe gripping into the surface or obstacle?
Your not supposed to be on your heels? When you split before you hit your supposed to land on the balls of your feet... When your waiting for a serve your supposed to be on the forefoot ready to split. The heel cushioning is there for when you jump back (for say an overhead maybe) or for when you make a wide lunge and slam on the heel. There is a reason for these differences that tennis shoes have. You won't ever see a player playing at the D1 or pro level in a shoe that is built like a minimalist because they move, jump, and run so hard that they would be looking at an injury if they did.The foot does not need a heel in the shoe. The running shoes market is changing, and so could the tennis shoe market be, albeit a bit delayed. Ofcourse a lot of people who have not tried it will be against it, spurred on by an industry that has been pushing high tech solutions for decades (in this respect the tennis racket industry is also a farce..). Experiments show that running in shockdampening shoes puts more impact on the joints. The same experiences could translate into other sports like tennis, and imo it should not be dismissed just because the majority is sticking to what they know at the present.

USERNAME
02-18-2012, 09:30 AM
It is player error on the rolls I've seen. Simply someone trying to do too much, the result is an injury since their body gets pushed that little bit more off balanced than it should. As for how I rolled mine, I've done it in tennis and a few times playing street football BAREFOOT... Instead of landing like this: | where my foot lands flat or almost flat, I land like this: / on the edge of my foot or shoe. When that happens as I said it really doesn't matter what your in, your turning your ankle. And I have used minimalists and much prefer traditional shoes for any running (distance/sprints) and will not use them in tennis because the chance of a injury, be it long term or immediate, is more likely.

Povl Carstensen
02-19-2012, 12:03 AM
You need very strong ankles to play with the 13-15 ounce shoes made for tennis. Other wise you will roll your ankles on some lateral moves.

I wouldn't dream of playing in any other type of shoe. Your asking for a long term injury.I am not sure I understand this post? Just curious.

And to Phaedrus and others, it must be said that I have not tried playing barefoot (or in minimalist) on concrete (hard), but enjoy it on clay and indoors (forgot the name of the surface). On wooden floors traction is a problem, this could be the case on concrete too, so a shoe would be needed.
And Username, perhaps the biggest difference between us is that I have yet to roll my ankle barefoot or in minimals....

USERNAME
02-19-2012, 01:55 AM
I think that the biggest difference is physicality. And probably playing level. I have to put my body under tons of stress that requires the use of proper equipment, you might be able to get away with LESS protection on clay against whoever you play but on hard court against the guys I play I need the cushioning and grip.

Povl Carstensen
02-19-2012, 04:31 AM
Admittedly I am not a high ranked grinder, and I do not play on hard courts. Yet others here seem to support my line of thinking. Anyway it will be interesting to see what development tennis shoes will undergo in the comming years!

USERNAME
02-19-2012, 12:59 PM
Admittedly I am not a high ranked grinder, and I do not play on hard courts. Yet others here seem to support my line of thinking. Anyway it will be interesting to see what development tennis shoes will undergo in the comming years!

Well from the looks of it, they'll be more and more shoes with lighter cushioning. So you'll see lighter shoes but not a legit minimalist. There will always be more of a demand for a cushioned shoe.

Povl Carstensen
02-19-2012, 01:21 PM
Well even if there is more of a demand for a cushioned shoe, we could se a legit minimalist. But now I am splitting hairs.

mrags
03-13-2012, 10:01 AM
I hit with my vibrams from time to time. Have not played a match yet. I play on clay, and it definitely makes you stay on the balls of feet and to run more upright, efficiently and with better posture. Sliding is a bit dicey, but it becomes less necessary to slide when you are moving more effectively on the court.

Strut99GT
03-15-2012, 03:41 PM
Think about shoes in caveman terms. I run in minimalist shoes because I can run outside barefoot and feel that it is a natural, logical transition. However, I would never, ever consider moving back and forth, side-to-side on a concrete tennis court in my bare feet, nor do I think anyone else should. Tennis shoes are engineered to assist the human body in accommodating this movement.

yellowoctopus
03-27-2012, 11:32 AM
Afraid my personal take on this is not very optimistic. I respect people's desire to want to revert to the caveman or the lesser primitive way of doing things, including barefoot walking and running. The truth is, our ancestors did not live very long, have tons of health issues (often result in painful deaths). Additionally, their activities were much different than ours (probably no tennis). The environment they lived in were also different. So what make us think that a caveman could survive the modern world better than the modern version?

http://rlv.zcache.com/tennis_evolution_darwin_theory_caveman_bumper_stic ker-p128723020564448256z74sk_400.jpg

Povl Carstensen
03-27-2012, 12:08 PM
Think about shoes in caveman terms. I run in minimalist shoes because I can run outside barefoot and feel that it is a natural, logical transition. However, I would never, ever consider moving back and forth, side-to-side on a concrete tennis court in my bare feet, nor do I think anyone else should. Tennis shoes are engineered to assist the human body in accommodating this movement.The human skin is very tough, specially with some progressional training (not straight out of the shoe box).

Afraid my personal take on this is not very optimistic. I respect people's desire to want to revert to the caveman or the lesser primitive way of doing things, including barefoot walking and running. The truth is, our ancestors did not live very long, have tons of health issues (often result in painful deaths). Additionally, their activities were much different than ours (probably no tennis). The environment they lived in were also different. So what make us think that a caveman could survive the modern world better than the modern version?I would say modern man would have a tougher time surviving the cave world.

corners
03-27-2012, 01:11 PM
Afraid my personal take on this is not very optimistic. I respect people's desire to want to revert to the caveman or the lesser primitive way of doing things, including barefoot walking and running. The truth is, our ancestors did not live very long, have tons of health issues (often result in painful deaths). Additionally, their activities were much different than ours (probably no tennis). The environment they lived in were also different. So what make us think that a caveman could survive the modern world better than the modern version?


You're making a lot of assumptions with zero evidence. There are many (but fewer every year) groups of people on the planet that live hunter gather lives today that are probably little different than the "caveman", whoever he might be. Most of these groups don't wear shoes, don't die young and don't have tons of health issues. They don't play tennis, but neither do they sit at desks all day and drink soda pop and get diabetes. And I guarantee you that their feet are a hell of a lot stronger than yours or mine.

corners
03-27-2012, 01:24 PM
Think about shoes in caveman terms. I run in minimalist shoes because I can run outside barefoot and feel that it is a natural, logical transition. However, I would never, ever consider moving back and forth, side-to-side on a concrete tennis court in my bare feet, nor do I think anyone else should. Tennis shoes are engineered to assist the human body in accommodating this movement.

Tennis shoes are not engineered as well as you might think. Most of the engineering is meant to reduce the impact of counterproductive torques introduced by the shoes themselves. For example, the "stability" elements of designs employed are necessary to compensate for the inherently unstable situation of placing the foot on a foam platform an inch or more above the ground, with a sharp edge on either side that the ankle can roll over. It is nearly impossible to sprain an ankle while barefoot.

Sports shoes are the result of a continuous product development cycle driven mostly by marketing folks, not by engineers. They are really rather heavy, constricting, stiff and over built, in my opinion. For us to think that they assist human movement is the primary objective of the marketing executives.

As far as playing tennis on concrete, you should really give it a try before advising other people not to. Our feet have sensory abilities that protect them from abrasion. These adaptations force us to move differently than we do in shoes when on hard and rough surfaces, but it's still possible to move quickly and play well, even on a hard court. Does that mean we should play barefoot? No, it doesn't, but it can be done.

Povl Carstensen
03-28-2012, 12:04 AM
Totally agree with the above posts. For instance, there is nothing wrong with pronation per se. It is part of our natural shock absorbtion. Its the padded shoes that can not handle pronation, and need "antipronation" build in. We are then told it is because af a problem with our feet.

yellowoctopus
04-01-2012, 03:56 AM
You're making a lot of assumptions with zero evidence. There are many (but fewer every year) groups of people on the planet that live hunter gather lives today that are probably little different than the "caveman", whoever he might be. Most of these groups don't wear shoes, don't die young and don't have tons of health issues. They don't play tennis, but neither do they sit at desks all day and drink soda pop and get diabetes. And I guarantee you that their feet are a hell of a lot stronger than yours or mine.

I believe this is an assumption without evidence. Look at the statistics on the average life expectancy and you will see that the communities with the high numbers (of years) are those that have embraced modern inventions.

I agree that the sedentary lifestyle in many modern societies has its own set of negative consequences, which btw does not come with cause-effect evidences, just a bunch of statistical correlations. But to say that the more primitive lifestyle is better? There is simply no evidence of that.

Sports shoes are the result of a continuous product development cycle driven mostly by marketing folks, not by engineers. They are really rather heavy, constricting, stiff and over built, in my opinion. For us to think that they assist human movement is the primary objective of the marketing executives.

I just want to mention that many shoes manufacturers are now marketing the minimalist shoes (which is the topic of this discussion). The advertising messages are that its sexy, non-constricting, sleek, light, and bring us closer to nature. I am pretty sure the marketing executive have their heavy hands of these as well. Does this make it as bad as the conspiracy of the other sport shoes technology?

IMHO, if one is born and raised in a society that walk around barefoot every day, there might be an argument for the benefit of running barefoot. The truth is, most of us are not in that situation. It is very challenging and quite risky for us to switch from wearing shoes to work, but spend the few hours running or playing tennis barefoot, or even with minimal support. This is one fact that I believe the supporters of barefoot activities, and the manufacturers of these minimalist shoes, would rather leave out.

http://teenymanolo.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/five-fingers-of-fug.jpg
http://zero-drop.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/truegorillafeet.jpg

Povl Carstensen
04-01-2012, 04:13 AM
I agree that the sedentary lifestyle in many modern societies has its own set of negative consequences.Agreed, and also agreed that modern society and science has positive consequences too.

I just want to mention that many shoes manufacturers are now marketing the minimalist shoes (which is the topic of this discussion). The advertising messages are that its sexy, sleek, light, and bring us closer to nature. I am pretty sure the marketing executive have their heavy hands of these as well. Does this make it as bad as the conspiracy of the other sport shoes?No, not all things advertized are bad. But there are selfreinforcing trends that might not always be purely beneficial. The trend of more technology can be almost funny, for instance when racket manufacturers push each other to claim that they have more or less reinvented the tennis racket every two or three years. The consumer has to look at these things with a critical but openminded eye, imo.

WildVolley
04-01-2012, 03:08 PM
I believe this is an assumption without evidence. Look at the statistics on the average life expectancy and you will see that the communities with the high numbers (of years) are those that have embraced modern inventions.

You aren't arguing that humans are living longer because of heavily cushioned athletic shoes, are you?

You do realize that the craze of running and competing in heavily cushioned shoes has only been going on less than half a century. Nike shoes started becoming big only in the 1970s. I don't think there has been any great increase in lifespan in the West during that time.

There's definitely a risk of injury going barefoot or in minimalist shoes, but that's true for all exercise.

Povl Carstensen
04-02-2012, 01:15 AM
It seems to be well documented that the frequency of injuries for runners has not gone down as a result of the introduction of modern running shoes.

Readers
04-02-2012, 03:53 AM
Does that mean we should play barefoot? No, it doesn't, but it can be done.

If it's on hard court, you won't really be playing tennis, you will be trying your hardest to not cripple yourself in one set.

yellowoctopus
04-02-2012, 05:48 AM
You aren't arguing that humans are living longer because of heavily cushioned athletic shoes, are you?

Absolutely not

I'm arguing that modern inventions, including the shoes, are not necessarily harmful as proponents of barefoot running, raw food eating, etc. might want people to believe. At the same time, I'm also acknowledging that the people that have taken commercialism to new heights are guilty of making modern inventions more than what it can or intended to do, even making up false inventions at times.

Happy medium, I am.

http://rlv.zcache.com/happy_medium_mug-p168238867821163303zvgru_210.jpg

Povl Carstensen
04-02-2012, 07:06 AM
If it's on hard court, you won't really be playing tennis, you will be trying your hardest to not cripple yourself in one set.This keeps being put forward by people who have not tried it (I believe). I more or less have to look up a hard court and give it a try. What is the definition of a hard court, concrete, cement?
For running barefoot, pavement does not rank very high in difficulty, compared to fx gravel.

WildVolley
04-02-2012, 10:05 AM
This keeps being put forward by people who have not tried it (I believe). I more or less have to look up a hard court and give it a try. What is the definition of a hard court, concrete, cement?
For running barefoot, pavement does not rank very high in difficulty, compared to fx gravel.

When most people are talking hard courts, they mean concrete courts with a surface. The tradition in the US used to be a surface on top of the concrete painted red and green.

There is no difficulty running barefoot on a concrete surface, as I've found myself, but the difficulty will be the quick stops and changes of direction. That can develop a lot of friction, and some of the top pros (Djokovic, Monfils) are sliding all over the hard courts. I'd definitely want some rubber under my foot for that.

I still contend that I could move very rapidly on a hard court surface in a shoe that had that tough outsole material with no midsole or insole. I'd still be off the court, but my foot would ride much closer to the court. Bruising of the heel would be an issue until I adjusted my foot impact, but I think it is highly doable.

Povl Carstensen
04-02-2012, 10:32 AM
When most people are talking hard courts, they mean concrete courts with a surface. The tradition in the US used to be a surface on top of the concrete painted red and green.

There is no difficulty running barefoot on a concrete surface, as I've found myself, but the difficulty will be the quick stops and changes of direction. That can develop a lot of friction, and some of the top pros (Djokovic, Monfils) are sliding all over the hard courts. I'd definitely want some rubber under my foot for that.

I still contend that I could move very rapidly on a hard court surface in a shoe that had that tough outsole material with no midsole or insole. I'd still be off the court, but my foot would ride much closer to the court. Bruising of the heel would be an issue until I adjusted my foot impact, but I think it is highly doable.Yes I'm not shure I would want to slide on them barefoot either, and I'm not the right one to test that anyway. And I totally agree with your point about a minimalist tennis shoe. Actually a thin, soft insole can be ok for a little added comfort, imo. And the thing is, you start adjusting your foot impact the second you change to minimalist shoes, and of course even more without shoes.

WildVolley
04-02-2012, 10:37 AM
Yes I'm not shure I would want to slide on them barefoot either, and I'm not the right one to test that anyway. And I totally agree with your point about a minimalist tennis shoe. Actually a thin, soft insole can be ok for a little added comfort, imo. And the thing is, you start adjusting your foot impact the second you change to minimalist shoes, and of course even more without shoes.

I've hit barefoot on a hard court because one day I happened to be going past the courts in flip-flops and saw some friends hitting. The flip-flops were worthless for hitting, so I took them off and just hit barefoot. Just hitting was no problem, but I didn't do any quick stopping.

I live on the coast, so it isn't unusual to see barefoot people around here.

6LOVE
08-27-2012, 11:56 AM
I train (CrossFit) and run in the minimalist Onitsuka Tiger Tai Chi (by Asics). To protect against the pounding of pavement, jumping rope, box jumps, etc. I create a full-length insole from PPT foam padding (orthotic grade material).

This has worked perfectly for me for a year now so I am currently experimenting with a similar set-up for tennis. Instead of the slipper-like Tai Chi, I'm using the very lightly-padded Asics Mexico with the same PPT protective insole. They worked very well at the my last tennis lesson: I was working on the backhand and my coach said my weight-transfer was not right. The minimalist shoes gave me superior feel to make the necessary adjustments. In this limited experiment of hitting with my coach I experienced no stability issues whatsoever. With "zero drop" there's nowhere to fall! I totally agree that the only reason modern tennis shoes requires lateral stabilization is because they have such an extreme heel drop.

I'm going to try the Asics Mexicos in a doubles match this evening, and will report back.

If the set up is suitable for match play, but I find that the Mexicos wear too quickly I plan to try the Merrell Barefoot Road Gloves.

I hope others will share their experience with minimalist and zero drop shoes on the tennis court.

6LOVE
08-28-2012, 06:33 AM
OK, here's my update:

Doubles went extremely well last evening. Movement was better in every way — getting to net, footwork while volleying, tracking down lobs. No question in my mind that minimalist shoes are safe on the hard courts. I am confident that any tennis player who has gone "zero drop" for running and training will prefer minimalist shoes on the tennis court.

Unfortunately, my Asics Mexicos took a beating in only one doubles session. I ordered Merrell Barefoot Road Gloves, which have a sole designed to run on pavement. I'll let you know how they hold up on the court.

TeamHumphrey
09-24-2012, 11:48 AM
I play in Inov-8s (f-lite 230s, bare-x 155, bare-x 150, whatever acceptable model happens to have had the cheapest price at the time I needed a refill). Playing on hard courts with minimalist shoes forces you to change your footwork, and I would say for the better. I certainly feel that I can react faster -- someone reading this can probably explain why the body is better prepared to move from a more natural position derived from the forefoot/heel relationship. Changing direction is...different...but I would say better now that I've been playing this way for a year. I can't stand going back to my old clunker "Tennis" shoes when I blow out my minimalist shoe earlier than expected. I am now starting to keep an extra pair around -- kind of like having spare racquets in the bag.

loosegroove
09-24-2012, 12:35 PM
Serious question for people who like minimalist shoes, why not just try a pair of Chuck Taylors?

6LOVE
09-24-2012, 01:59 PM
Try the Merrells. Harder rubber is wearing well.

Borrelli
09-24-2012, 02:48 PM
I play in Diadora Borg elites or Stan Smiths, usually on clay but I wouldn't be against using them on hard court either. The leather on both is pretty substantial to provide enough cushion and support for me. Chucks or Jack Purcell's seem a bit too flimsy with the canvas uppers.

TeamHumphrey
09-24-2012, 05:27 PM
@6LOVE I might try the Merrell's -- I didn't like the vibram outsoles in my New Balance's but I'll check out the Merrell's.

@loosegroove -- There is a huge difference between "minimalist" shoes that strive to make you feel as if you are not wearing a shoe at all, and Chuck Taylors.

The Chucks are heavy, inflexible, squishy, and lack ground feel compared to the new minimalist shoes. The toebox can also be a bit too narrow for some people. Finally, the outsole does not grip as well as some of the newer shoes.

While relatively low to the ground, the old canvas chucks don't really have very good lateral stability, or even front to back stability -- your feet tend to move in the shoe, rather than the shoe and the foot moving as one.

I am biased though -- I would wear Chucks for weight lifting, but not for any other athletic endeavor -- I have tried, but I have had more injuries potentially attributable to footwear in Chucks than any other shoe.

If you are looking for a "normal", cheapish, and fashionable minimilish shoe, I'd look at indoor soccer shoes. The Adidas Samba might be a bit better than the Chucks performance wise.

NJ1
09-24-2012, 06:36 PM
Well I am not suggesting you play in running shoes or skate shoes.

.

Having never had any joint problems playing soccer on concrete in them, I used to play in Nike Tiempo 5-a-side soccer shoes. My ankles felt like hell the morning after 2-3 hrs on court, so I wouldn't recommend Sambas either. For me, modern tennis shoes have been a godsend. YMMV.

loosegroove
09-24-2012, 06:39 PM
@loosegroove -- There is a huge difference between "minimalist" shoes that strive to make you feel as if you are not wearing a shoe at all, and Chuck Taylors.

The Chucks are heavy, inflexible, squishy, and lack ground feel compared to the new minimalist shoes. The toebox can also be a bit too narrow for some people. Finally, the outsole does not grip as well as some of the newer shoes.

While relatively low to the ground, the old canvas chucks don't really have very good lateral stability, or even front to back stability -- your feet tend to move in the shoe, rather than the shoe and the foot moving as one.

I am biased though -- I would wear Chucks for weight lifting, but not for any other athletic endeavor -- I have tried, but I have had more injuries potentially attributable to footwear in Chucks than any other shoe.

If you are looking for a "normal", cheapish, and fashionable minimilish shoe, I'd look at indoor soccer shoes. The Adidas Samba might be a bit better than the Chucks performance wise.

Yeah. I definitely realize that Chuck's and the new minimalist shoes are VERY different. I was just asking since Chucks did seem like an option for a more minimal shoe, though obviously not as an alternative for those who want the Vibram styling. I recently hit with my Chucks because I was letting my friend wear my tennnis shoes and they felt pretty good. Though I have a relatively narrow foot and they fit me perfectly.

WildVolley
09-25-2012, 06:47 AM
Yeah. I definitely realize that Chuck's and the new minimalist shoes are VERY different. I was just asking since Chucks did seem like an option for a more minimal shoe, though obviously not as an alternative for those who want the Vibram styling. I recently hit with my Chucks because I was letting my friend wear my tennnis shoes and they felt pretty good. Though I have a relatively narrow foot and they fit me perfectly.

I like the way that Chucks look, but they are much too narrow for me even to consider. I have trouble with them crushing my toes even when I go a size too long.

On the positive side, Chucks don't seem to have an elevated heel and actually seem to be zero-drop. But they are still very heavy.

I'm still hoping that a major tennis shoe company will step up to the plate and make a high-tech minimalist tennis shoe with zero-drop, durable outsole, low stiff stack height, and a light ventilated upper with a toe guard. I think it would actually sell. Especially if they kept the weight under 10oz.

NJ1
09-25-2012, 06:57 AM
I'm still hoping that a major tennis shoe company will step up to the plate and make a high-tech minimalist tennis shoe with zero-drop, durable outsole, low stiff stack height, and a light ventilated upper with a toe guard. I think it would actually sell. Especially if they kept the weight under 10oz.

The Breathe 2k11s that I use for clay tick a lot of these boxes (aside from hard court durability which is woeful). That said, they're like +14oz and may still be too high for what you prefer, though with the Zoom in the heel they are the lowest I wear.

WildVolley
09-25-2012, 07:17 AM
The Breathe 2k11s that I use for clay tick a lot of these boxes (aside from hard court durability which is woeful). That said, they're like +14oz and may still be too high for what you prefer, though with the Zoom in the heel they are the lowest I wear.

The last Nike I wore was the BF2, and the drop from the heel to the toe was quite noticeable in those. Do you think that the B2k11s have almost a zero-drop footbed?

NJ1
09-25-2012, 07:31 AM
The last Nike I wore was the BF2, and the drop from the heel to the toe was quite noticeable in those. Do you think that the B2k11s have almost a zero-drop footbed?

No, I was just trying to be helpful in recommending tennis shoe with a lower heel than the B'cades, CBs, Wilsons, Princes et al. The 2k11 and Propulse3 are lower than most, but I suppose still too high for what you are after.

WildVolley
09-25-2012, 07:41 AM
No, I was just trying to be helpful in recommending tennis shoe with a lower heel than the B'cades, CBs, Wilsons, Princes et al. The 2k11 and Propulse3 are lower than most, but I suppose still too high for what you are after.

Thanks for the advice. I wear Yonex 304s now because I love the last shape, but they most likely have a higher stack height than the 2k11s. The 304s also have an elevated heel, and are overly cushioned in my opinion. It seems that cushioning sells as a lot of people are convinced the extra cushioning is protecting their joints, even though some studies are suggesting higher torque on joints from more cushioning.

While the 2k11s are on the right track, I'd like Nike or someone to step up and take the concept further by sticking with a durable outsole, but dropping the cushioning and stack height to a minimum. They could sell them as a game-day shoe that reduces ankle risk.

NJ1
09-25-2012, 08:45 AM
Thanks for the advice. I wear Yonex 304s now because I love the last shape, but they most likely have a higher stack height than the 2k11s. The 304s also have an elevated heel, and are overly cushioned in my opinion. It seems that cushioning sells as a lot of people are convinced the extra cushioning is protecting their joints, even though some studies are suggesting higher torque on joints from more cushioning.

While the 2k11s are on the right track, I'd like Nike or someone to step up and take the concept further by sticking with a durable outsole, but dropping the cushioning and stack height to a minimum. They could sell them as a game-day shoe that reduces ankle risk.

I hear you re too much padding. I like cushioning to be really firm on all shoe types, I have a pair of casual (I know we're talking sports but as an aside) Feiyue's and they are too squidgy and give me back pain so I stick with Cons (which are *just* wide enough for me). This is also the case with seats (this may be even more off topic), my butt will ache within 45 mins if I'm on a squidgy movie seat but put me in a car with firm leather sports seats and I'm comfy for hours. All of this said, the 304s do sound like a nice shoe overall.

I wonder how much lower they'll be able to get the heels without losing absorption. Zoom is supposed to be their lowest ride for Nike, but hopefully all the companies are looking to work in new tech that will offer an even better compromise. I would like that but would still probably stick with tank-like Barricades as they're the only shoes I can get to last me 3 months thanks to a toe drag on my 2hbh I just can't quit.

Sumo
09-25-2012, 11:02 AM
The original Lacoste Repels are much lower to the ground than my last few pairs of shoes (Vapors VII I think and Adi Accelerators) and from the looks of them seem to have minimal drop from heel to toe.

mobyplay
12-05-2012, 01:19 PM
have played 2-3 x a week in vivobarefoot shoes, evo 1 and 2. I have been able to play withou roling my ankles and any pain. Do have to avoid landing on heels and good balanced posture. The teaching pros have told me to get real shoes with ankle support, but would not go back.

Would recommend with a slow transition period of 3-6months, since it feels drastically different. Need to build foot strength and alter movement.

Use Vivo with socks, without caused blistering. Tried five fingers which fell apart on the tennis court.

texastornado
12-05-2012, 09:24 PM
Can someone post a video playing a competitive match barefoot or in minimalist shoes? I'm currently wearing the 851's and train in MT20V2's. Doesn't seem like it would be possible to play competitively (sliding, direction changes) wearing what most people would consider minimalist shoes.

2ndServe
12-06-2012, 05:26 AM
I tried warming up in some. Felt nice but playing a match you'd get probably less than 10 matches before the shoe was toast.

morten
12-06-2012, 05:54 AM
as a minimalist runner and shoe tester i love minimalist/barefootshoes, but the high impact and rapid change in directions in tennis draws me away from using them for tennis. But i am curious still, maybe for more casual tennis.

Bagumbawalla
12-11-2012, 08:44 AM
Don't know if you can find them in the USA, but here is a very minimal shoe.

http://www.forehand.pl/p1879,wilson-scramjet-damskie.html

TeamHumphrey
12-24-2012, 09:14 AM
I have to admit being a wee bit excited about the new New Balance 996 that is about to become available -- it may not be "minimalist", but I like the idea of the mc 851 and this should theoretically be an iterative improvement.

Slightly less excited about the new Wilson Pro Rush shoe that is said to have a 6mm drop -- reports are that it is still very stiff, so not as interesting as the direction of the NB line.

WildVolley
12-24-2012, 01:19 PM
Can someone post a video playing a competitive match barefoot or in minimalist shoes? I'm currently wearing the 851's and train in MT20V2's. Doesn't seem like it would be possible to play competitively (sliding, direction changes) wearing what most people would consider minimalist shoes.

It is not at all hard to cut and slide barefoot, so tennis would be no problem if it weren't for the limit abrasion resistance of the foot. I do hard cuts and slides all the time on grass without shoes, but I don't have to worry about grass abrading the bottom of the foot. However, it shouldn't be difficult to change directions or slide on a tennis court in a minimal shoe like something from Vivo Barefoot. The original developer of vivo barefoot was a tennis player.

The other big issue for tennis is that a lot of players heel plant into a stroke. That's something you can only safely do in shoes as your heels are not really built to absorb a lot of impact. So, to play well in minimalist shoes, you'd need to reduce the heavy heel planting.

The main reason I don't play in minimalist shoes is expense. It doesn't make sense for me to destroy a pair of $100+ shoes in a few matches.

Harry_Wild
12-25-2012, 11:27 AM
Hey all. I know this has been discussed on this forum before in the past, but I was looking for a little more information on the topic of minimalist shoes for tennis. And the vivobarefoot shoes just aren't an option for me unfortunately :(

It's kind of a unique situation in that I can't wear the vivobarefoot shoes... they don't come in my size. The vibram komodosports don't either (I'd wear a size 38 if they did). I wish those did come in my size, as my size 38 KSOs are awesome!

I'm a small guy, with size 7 (US) shoes, so finding shoes in my size is difficult enough.. finding minimalist shoes in my size is really difficult... now finding minimalist shoes that are good for tennis in my size.. well... You get the picture :)

So I'm looking for any recommendations of shoes that are good minimalist tennis shoes, last long enough on the courts, and are good for lateral movement on the courts.

Anyone had any good experiences with any particular types or have any suggestions?

How about playing barefoot! That should be the minimalist enough! LOL:)

banter
12-25-2012, 07:50 PM
I haven't tried this shoe for tennis, but I like the Altra Samson (http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpageMRS-ALTSAM1.html).

Povl Carstensen
12-26-2012, 02:10 AM
How about playing barefoot! That should be the minimalist enough! LOL:)Thats what I do.

I haven't tried this shoe for tennis, but I like the Altra Samson (http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpageMRS-ALTSAM1.html).Looks pretty cool.

newyorkstadium
05-19-2013, 08:16 AM
I've invested a lot of time into researching the benefits of minimalist shoes. One thing I can't find any info on is whether they reduce the chance of planting your foot and twisting your knee. I did this today. I was stretching for a backhand slice low to my left and planted my left foot. As I rotated into the slice, I twisted my knee.

Since I switched to a shoe with slightly less cushion (gel game 3) I have twisted my knee a few times. I have also developed a dangerous habit of planting my foot. I always recover after, but in the match I am playing below 100% because of the pain in the knee.

6LOVE
05-20-2013, 06:47 AM
I've invested a lot of time into researching the benefits of minimalist shoes. One thing I can't find any info on, is whether they reduce the chance of planting your foot and twisting your knee. I did this today. I was stretching for a backhand slice low to my left and planted my left leg. As I rotated into the slice I twisted my knee.

Since I switched to a shoe with slightly less cushion (gel game 3) I have twisted my knee a few times. I have also developed a dangerous habit of planting my foot. I always recover after, but in the match I am playing below 100% because of the pain in the knee.

Are you asking about using "a shoe with slightly less cushion (gel game 3)" or about using a zero-drop shoe?

Playing in a zero-drop shoe (Merrill Barefoot Road Glove) for a year now and have never twisted my ankle or knee. I'm not a podiatrist or expert, but I feel much more prone to twisting when I'm up high in a shoe with a substantial heel. I feel much safer with my feet planted flat on ground.

As for less cushion, you have to be careful, especially if you have a history of plantar fasciastis. In fact I line the footbed of my Merrills with PPT foam padding (medical quality) to absorb shock.

newyorkstadium
05-20-2013, 07:37 AM
I mean't less cushion in the heel, but i'm interested in the effects of a zero drop shoe, as well.

I would never play tennis with such little cushion that I'm at risk of plantar fasciitis. But I would think playing in a shoe that has less cushion, and/or less heel drop, would provide more speed, stability and balance.

I still don't know if it decreases the chance of planting your foot and twisting your knee. As I've mentioned, this an injury that I am suffering more frequently since I swapped to a shoe with less cushion in the heel. It is an injury that occurs in many sports. I've seen it happen live in soccer, where a player got his studs stuck in the turf and twisted his knee, rupturing his knee ligaments.

I think I would agree with Rafa that there is less chance of injuring your knee on clay/grass, where you slide rather then planting your foot in a jarring manner.

WildVolley
05-21-2013, 07:57 AM
I've invested a lot of time into researching the benefits of minimalist shoes. One thing I can't find any info on is whether they reduce the chance of planting your foot and twisting your knee. I did this today. I was stretching for a backhand slice low to my left and planted my left foot. As I rotated into the slice, I twisted my knee.

Since I switched to a shoe with slightly less cushion (gel game 3) I have twisted my knee a few times. I have also developed a dangerous habit of planting my foot. I always recover after, but in the match I am playing below 100% because of the pain in the knee.

It is not exactly clear what you are doing? I don't understand what "planting my foot" means. Are you getting too much traction on the court, which is causing you to be able to torque your knee? Are you putting all your weight on your heel?

Shoes that grip too well can be a problem, but that's not only a result of heel stack height, and usually not too much of an issue with modern tennis shoes.

I'd focus more on strengthening your legs and changing your foot work patterns than shoes. But it is worthwhile to experiment with different shoes. Good luck.

newyorkstadium
05-21-2013, 08:18 AM
Are you getting too much traction on the court, which is causing you to be able to torque your knee?

Shoes that grip too well can be a problem, but that's not only a result of heel stack height, and usually not too much of an issue with modern tennis shoes.

I'd focus more on strengthening your legs and changing your foot work patterns than shoes. But it is worthwhile to experiment with different shoes. Good luck.

Yes, this is what is happening. My foot keep's sticking to the ground, causing me to torque my knee. I will focus on improving my footwork and conditioning.

By the way, did you ever post in the TW shoe feedback thread? It might be a bit late now, but I know you are interested in knowing the heel drop of tennis shoes. Here is the thread - http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=456691&page=3

WildVolley
05-21-2013, 08:49 AM
Yes, this is what is happening. My foot keep's sticking to the ground, causing me to torque my knee. I will focus on improving my footwork and conditioning. TW are improving their shoe finder this summer. Hopefully they will add in heel drop or heel height.

By the way, did you ever post in the TW shoe feedback thread? It might be a bit late now, but I know you are interested in knowing the heel drop of tennis shoes. Here is the thread - http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=456691&page=3

Don't know if I posted in that thread.

Just thinking about it, perhaps a different heel height is causing your to plant your foot differently, as we definitely do adapt to different shoes. I walk barefoot and in minimal shoes most days. When I first started, my feet felt very tender and I had to be careful about heel planting. After doing it a while, my form changed and I can walk rapidly without hard heel plants or pain.

Something similar may be occurring with a change in shoes. Your foot will be at a different angle with less heel drop than in a very padded shoe. You may be heel planting too much in the shoe with less heel and limiting your mobility which increases the chance of torque on your leg. Strange as it may seem, some runners claim that they can really notice a cm difference in heel stack height.

Carolina Racquet
05-21-2013, 09:45 AM
I read an article in the June '13 issue of Men's Journal all about minimalist shoes and tennis.

The author states that both Vivobarefoot and New Balance are planning on releasing zero-drop shoes specifically designed for tennis in 2014 and 2015 respectively.

Couldn't find the article on the web, but it's available in print.

newyorkstadium
05-21-2013, 09:47 AM
I'm not sure if there is less heel drop then my last shoe. I only know, from my shoe measurements thread, that the heel of the GG3 is lower then my previous shoe the Nike CB 4.3. Your comments on less heel drop causing more traction are right, though. So perhaps the GG3 has less heel drop. Or, perhaps the problem lies in my footwork.

You would think that with less cushion, their would be more knee stabilty, less traction and less torque. These are the sort of things that have me interested in trying a minimalist, zero-drop tennis shoe.

newyorkstadium
05-21-2013, 09:51 AM
I read an article in the June '13 issue of Men's Journal all about minimalist shoes and tennis.

The author states that both Vivobarefoot and New Balance are planning on releasing zero-drop shoes specifically designed for tennis in 2014 and 2015 respectively.

Couldn't find the article on the web, but it's available in print.

That's made my day. It's nice to know there are companies interested in making zero drop tennis shoes.

Carolina Racquet
05-21-2013, 10:06 AM
Apologies if this link has already been shared about Vivobarefoot's founder and how his ankle problems from playing TENNIS inspired him to develop the shoes:

http://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/community/?p=1170

newyorkstadium
05-21-2013, 12:10 PM
Apologies if this link has already been shared about Vivobarefoot's founder and how his ankle problems from playing TENNIS inspired him to develop the shoes:

http://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/community/?p=1170

I've never seen it before and I've searched this forum for info on minimalist and barefoot shoes. Thanks, I found it really interesting.

I would never go barefoot for tennis. I think minimalist reduces the risk of heel injuries. Hopefully someone will make a zero-drop minimalist tennis shoe, like Vivobarefoot or New Balance

robbo1970
05-22-2013, 04:14 AM
Go old school.

Lighter weight, full leather uppers, and very quick around the court but enough sole to protect you.

I've just got some Diadora Borg Originals and theyre really good. But anything like Nike Court Tradition or Stan Smiths would be lighter and more minimal.

You'd never get the same cushioning under foot as you would with a modern shoe, but if you want minimal, that could be an option.

And I never recall seeing the trainers getting called out to pro's in the old school days.

Carolina Racquet
05-22-2013, 09:22 AM
Not to start the foot debate, but I've discovered during my bout with plantar fasciitis that cushioning is not the end-all, be all.

SUPPORT is key. Not only affecting the foot, but also the other joints that could be impacted by poor alignment. Without proper support, all the cushioning in the world is worthless.

I'm not running out to buy the first pair, but I would keep an open mind.

morten
05-22-2013, 01:33 PM
True Carolina, i agree

ericsson
05-24-2013, 12:58 AM
I've never seen it and I've searched this forum for info on minimalist and barefoot shoes. Thanks, I found it really interesting.

I would never go barefoot for tennis. I think minimalist reduces the risk of heel injuries. Hopefully someone will make a zero-drop minimalist tennis shoe, like Vivobarefoot or New Balance

That's what i hope for too, a leather tennis shoe, zero drop and wide toebox. Something like what King Roger uses ;-)

Povl Carstensen
05-24-2013, 01:49 AM
I read an article in the June '13 issue of Men's Journal all about minimalist shoes and tennis.

The author states that both Vivobarefoot and New Balance are planning on releasing zero-drop shoes specifically designed for tennis in 2014 and 2015 respectively.

Couldn't find the article on the web, but it's available in print.Sounds interesting. I have used Vivo Barefoot Evo with good results. But they might not be durable enough for hard playing toedraggers (thats not me).

Povl Carstensen
05-24-2013, 01:53 AM
I'm not sure if there is less heel drop then my last shoe. I only know, from my shoe measurements thread, that the heel of the GG3 is lower then my previous shoe the Nike CB 4.3. Your comments on less heel drop causing more traction are right, though. So perhaps the GG3 has less heel drop. Or, perhaps the problem lies in my footwork.

You would think that with less cushion, their would be more knee stabilty, less traction and less torque. These are the sort of things that have me interested in trying a minimalist, zero-drop tennis shoe.Yes. It will sound controversial to many, but you can say that the ground gives us adequate support, and putting cushoning between you and the ground "filters" it away. And when the shoes get worn, skewed, tilted you actually get "anti"-support.

blitzmage_89
06-03-2013, 01:37 AM
I'm not sure if they're still making it but the ASICS Gel Velocity was really nice. It was like the Stan Smith but a lot lighter (and very durable). I initially bought it only for casual wear but I ended up using it for school, tennis, jogging, gym, flag football and even hiking. It lasted for a good 2 and a half years.

newyorkstadium
06-04-2013, 12:35 PM
Although I'm aware of the science of minimalist/barefoot shoes, I chose to look for a minimalist shoe because I'm tall and struggle with low balls. I could see smaller guy's wanting more cushion to help with the serve and higher balls. I haven't tried serving yet, but I will be serving from a different angle with my latest shoes being 2cm lower.

Is there an argument for picking your shoe based on personal height, or shots you struggle with?

Povl Carstensen
06-04-2013, 01:03 PM
Although I'm aware of the science of minimalist/barefoot shoes, I chose to look for a minimalist shoe, as I'm tall and struggle with low balls. I could see smaller guy's wanting more cushion to help with the serve and higher balls. I haven't tried serving yet, but I will be serving from a different angle with my latest shoes being 2cm lower.

Is there an argument for picking your shoe based on personal height, or shots you struggle with?I think comfort, stability, contact with the ground, etc is much, much more important. One of my worst shoe purchases was some Prince squash shoes that had an extra high heel because they wanted to fit some kind of O-holes into them (ridiculous idea).

newyorkstadium
06-05-2013, 01:21 AM
Here are a few interesting new studies.

Link (http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2013/03000/Effects_of_Different_Footwear_on_Vertical_Jump_and .25.aspx) - Barefoot increased jump height and peak power.

Link (http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/05/is-barefoot-style-running-best-new-studies-cast-doubt/) - At high speed, the rearfoot runners in a RF pattern, and the forefoot runners in a FF pattern, did not differ significantly in economy. But the FF runners in an RF pattern were more economical still, meaning they were more economical than the RF runners in an RF pattern! The FF runners also had a somewhat higher average preferred speed, suggesting those in the FF group were better runners in absolute terms. At slow and medium speeds, groups did not differ significantly in economy. This study had many flaws, the shoes were not zero heel drop which favors heel strikers. This may explain why the FF runners performed better in a RF pattern. Also, FF runners can easily revert back to a RF stride, but RF runners need training to adjust to a FF pattern.

Link (http://www.medicaldaily.com/articles/16071/20130530/proof-barefoot-running-reduces-risk-injuries-study.htm) - This study indicates that running performance improves with shoes 300g or under. So, it's good that tennis shoe companies are trying to lower the weight of shoes.

Link (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167945712001558)- Toe strike running increases the risk of injury in the early stages.

WildVolley
06-05-2013, 07:46 PM
Here are a few interesting new studies.

Link (http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2013/03000/Effects_of_Different_Footwear_on_Vertical_Jump_and .25.aspx) - Barefoot increased jump height and peak power.



This has been one of the reasons that I support zero-drop or minimal shoes for tennis. A raised heel does provide impact protection by cushioning, but it reduces athletic performance by pre-tensing the calves and limiting explosive movement. Sprint spikes, for instance, don't have built up heels.

Since I have healthy feet, I also realize I don't need much in the way of shoes to provide "stability" whatever that is.

A lightweight, flat tennis shoe with a firm midsole, low stack height, and durable outsole could be a good match shoe in my opinion. Especially if the weight can be kept under 10oz.

ericsson
06-06-2013, 03:46 AM
This has been one of the reasons that I support zero-drop or minimal shoes for tennis. A raised heel does provide impact protection by cushioning, but it reduces athletic performance by pre-tensing the calves and limiting explosive movement. Sprint spikes, for instance, don't have built up heels.

Since I have healthy feet, I also realize I don't need much in the way of shoes to provide "stability" whatever that is.

A lightweight, flat tennis shoe with a firm midsole, low stack height, and durable outsole could be a good match shoe in my opinion. Especially if the weight can be kept under 10oz.

I second that!

tennis tom
06-06-2013, 03:12 PM
The most minimal, lightest shoe I've seen in the last couple of years are the K-Swiss Speedster Classics. I bought a couple of pair just to knock around in. They look pretty cool in an old-school tennis way, very light. I got them at TW, but I don't think they have them any more, no picture but if you look on the internet you'll probably see a pic.

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpage-KWSTWB.html

random1
06-06-2013, 07:12 PM
I've been battling plantar fascitis for the last 9 months or so. Based on some reviews by people with plantar fascitis, I tried the Merrell Trail Glove as a casual sneaker - it's a minimalist trail running shoe. I just got the Merrell Bare Access 2 to use for tennis. The sole, and more importantly the edges of the sold, look more or less like tennis shoes. There's been talk about the danger of running shoes in tennis. Many running shoes have edges on the soles that can "catch" and cause an ankle roll, and most running shoes don't have good lateral traction, which can cause problems. The Bare Access doesn't seem to have these problems, I've only used them once so far, but love them.

My $0.02

OKUSA
06-30-2013, 07:15 PM
What tennis shoe would y'all recommend until these new generation minimalist tennis shoes arrive? I've been wearing court ballistic 2.3's for a long time and always thought they were overly cushioned and clunky..

I have played tennis before in vibrams forget the name but it was their second model after the original and they got destroyed readily but I had no problems physically

BLX_Andy
07-01-2013, 10:17 AM
I would prefer the Zoom Vapor 9 Tour. They're lightweight and have great support IMO. Durability is surprisingly good if you don't wear this everyday unless its for tennis.

switters
07-02-2013, 08:20 AM
Has anyone tried the "The One Mens" from VivoBarefoot for tennis? http://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/mens/on-road/the-one-mens-2031.html

10smom62
05-02-2014, 07:50 PM
Looks like Vivobarefoot has made the freud ii for tennis the have both men and women


Vivobarefoot Freud ii for tennis (http://amzn.to/1mnpOUJ)

I just order mine. I will let you know how it goes.

Povl Carstensen
05-02-2014, 11:34 PM
Since I have healthy feet, I also realize I don't need much in the way of shoes to provide "stability" whatever that is. Imo, stability in shoes is an effort to stabilize or fix the inherent problems of a high, shockabsorbing sole.

bigdaddyps
05-05-2014, 01:05 PM
Love my superlight Adidas Response CC Rally Comps.

Great fit, nice stylin', and I got 2 pair at $49.99 ea.
Hot damn!

Now I only play on clay. Don't know how they would feel on hard courts.

They are 4 ozs. lighter than the pair of Asics Gel Res 5 clay court shoes I have. And it makes a significant diff for me.

goran_ace
05-07-2014, 02:36 PM
Those of you who bought Vibram Five Fingers note that they settled in the class action against them for false claims about the the health benefits of their shoes. You are entitled to $94 for each pair that you've purchased since March 2009.

FiveFingers Maker Vibram Moves to Settle Suit Over Health Claims
Proposal Awaiting Court Approval Would Offer Refunds to Shoe Buyers [WSJ] (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304655304579547781850080084?mg=ren o64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB1000 1424052702304655304579547781850080084.html)

WildVolley
05-07-2014, 03:25 PM
Those of you who bought Vibram Five Fingers note that they settled in the class action against them for false claims about the the health benefits of their shoes. You are entitled to $94 for each pair that you've purchased since March 2009.

FiveFingers Maker Vibram Moves to Settle Suit Over Health Claims
Proposal Awaiting Court Approval Would Offer Refunds to Shoe Buyers [WSJ] (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304655304579547781850080084?mg=ren o64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB1000 1424052702304655304579547781850080084.html)

I purchased a pair at some point, don't know if I'll have records for the date. The settlement is actually for a small amount, less than $4 million (so it is basically impossible to reimburse most of the purchasers, especially after the lawyers take about a 1/3 of that).

It's a weird case. I bought my pair because they were close to barefoot but added some protection from sharp surfaces.

They definitely do help strengthen your feet, but less so than just taking your shoes off and going around barefoot. It is sort of amazing that someone would argue that going barefoot doesn't strengthen your feet. You can just take off your shoes and see that your range of motion increases. I'm sure that someone could walk very gingerly barefoot and not increase strength, but the same person could probably lift weights and not increase strength.

The idea that it would reduce injury is the more questionable claim. Did Vibram actually ever say that? Seems hard to believe. The most legitimate complaint against them is that the pair I have is poorly designed in that dirt can sift between the fixed insole and the outsole and then they stink like hell. You have to constantly wash them if you don't want to kill other people from the stink.

GuyClinch
05-08-2014, 06:37 PM
I have been playing in some squash shoes - which while not minimalist - are far more minimal then normal tennis shoes and have less drop.

You feel more stable and quicker - but I find on concrete I want more shock absorbing ability. It's true with more cushion you give up stability but you gain shock absorbtion.

The whole draw of minimalist shoes is that you avoid heel striking. However in tennis the pros can avoid that without minimalist shoes - fed will stay on the balls of his feet till he plants to hit.

So seems to me that's the best of both worlds - you avoid heel striking and get more cushioning. I know there is some theories that cushioning doesn't really work. But I don't buy it..

I have played on some rubberized surfaces which I think would replicate the feel of padded shoes and they absolutely seem easier on my joints. I'd think clay is somewhat similar - you lose some stability but you gain softness..

hescobal
05-08-2014, 06:43 PM
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Nike_Vapor_Court_Gold_Blue_Mens_Shoe/descpageMSNIKE-NMVCGB.html

These shoes are good. You can't beat the price and they're pretty comfortable!

morten
05-08-2014, 10:42 PM
I have been playing in some squash shoes - which while not minimalist - are far more minimal then normal tennis shoes and have less drop.

You feel more stable and quicker - but I find on concrete I want more shock absorbing ability. It's true with more cushion you give up stability but you gain shock absorbtion.

The whole draw of minimalist shoes is that you avoid heel striking. However in tennis the pros can avoid that without minimalist shoes - fed will stay on the balls of his feet till he plants to hit.

So seems to me that's the best of both worlds - you avoid heel striking and get more cushioning. I know there is some theories that cushioning doesn't really work. But I don't buy it..

I have played on some rubberized surfaces which I think would replicate the feel of padded shoes and they absolutely seem easier on my joints. I'd think clay is somewhat similar - you lose some stability but you gain softness..
Sounds logical except one important difference , yes you stay on the balls of feet while just hitting, at eachother.. As soon as you start running and grinding, staying low, chasing dropshots you must land on your heels sometimes. All the stopping, changing directions. . You cannot play tennis looking like Fred Astaire, all the time. I have been a barefootshoe/minimalistshoe runner for 5 years, i even work in the business. I wanted it to work believe me, for match play it does not work. I use CB 4.3. , one thing the shoemakers could do is to try a bit lower drop, not so much raised the heel.

OTMPut
05-08-2014, 11:11 PM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=483924

6LOVE
05-29-2014, 11:37 AM
After a couple years (10 pairs) of playing in Merrell's Barefoot Road Glove, I can no longer find this excellent shoe in my size. (The successors, Road Glove 2 and 3, don't cut it.) I'm thinking about the Merrell Vapor Glove as a replacement. Has anyone given the Vapor Glove a try?

morten
05-29-2014, 12:22 PM
vapor glove is amazing, but really thin and minimalistic.. And the size run big... had to go down.. But i never wore them for tennis.