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View Full Version : My quest to 5.0 - help me out


Jakesteroni
02-16-2012, 10:43 AM
Critique it. All honesty is appreciated. My fitness is definitely not there as it is something I am working on this year. Lost all fitness and footwork when I stopped playing for 2 years.

I laid off tennis for quite a while due to relocating and work and have been trying to get back to a 5.0 level. You could say this is the beginning of my journey to that point thanks for being apart of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMs4-aPOXfw

I should rename this thread to "looking for hitches"

peoplespeace
02-16-2012, 11:11 AM
Critique it. All honesty is appreciated. My fitness is definitely not there as it is something I am working on this year. Lost all fitness and footwork when I stopped playing for 2 years.

I laid off tennis for quite a while due to relocating and work and have been trying to get back to a 5.0 level. You could say this is the beginning of my journey to that point thanks for being apart of it.

My hitting partner is not rated, for now he only rally's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMs4-aPOXfw

Aussming ur the guy closest to the camera, things look nice, we rally at about the same level although i would say my 2hbh is a bit more penetrating. What is the purpose of the vid, looking for compliments? If u wanna improve ur fh try hitting more through the ball and get less spin on it, just for variation.

charliefedererer
02-16-2012, 11:15 AM
Your stokes look sound.

To increase your fitness and footwork speed consider doing the following:
High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT): http://www.intervaltraining.net/hiit.html
USTA Agility drills: http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/USTA_Import/USTA/dps/doc_437_269.pdf

Sometimes you will be "beat" after a tennis session. Other times you can get in some HIIT and Agility drills after your partner has left, or if he can only be there for a brief period, even before.

Jakesteroni
02-16-2012, 11:19 AM
Aussming ur the guy closest to the camera, things look nice, we really at about the same level although i would say my 2hbh i pro a bit more penetrating. What is the purpose of the vid, looking for compliments? If u wanna improve ur fh try hitting more through the ball and get less spin on it, just for variation.

Compliments no. Advice yes. I am the guy closest to the camera. I'll try your advice next time I'm out. Thanks for taking the time on helping out. Greatly apprecaite it.

USERNAME
02-16-2012, 11:22 AM
The stokes and prep are 5.0 if your black shirt guy. Footwork will come back, it's the serve that usually takes work.

maggmaster
02-16-2012, 12:15 PM
What is your tennis background like? Junior play?

Jakesteroni
02-16-2012, 01:01 PM
What is your tennis background like? Junior play?

I started playing freshman year in high school. Went on to play 1 yr in Junior College. I had probably 5 lessons from actual coaches, but I was just joining my friends private lesson so I wouldn't say I really got coached. I am mostly self taught. I just invested a lot of time during my high school days, I would play anywhere from 4 to 6 hrs after school. Watched lots of tennis studying and mimic players that I idolized.

After 1 yr of college moved up to Nor Cal and stopped playing for 2 years. Gained 25 lb and here I am now.

ho
02-16-2012, 01:28 PM
I had probably 5 lessons from actual coaches, but I was just joining my friends private lesson so I wouldn't say I really got coached.

True, there is no coach will let you execute your forehand that way. The in and out of your forearm, the wristy movement of your hand will break down once in real match and high speed ball. I do not see any pro hit the way you hit.
I'm sorry
Your backhand look solid and very good.

wings56
02-16-2012, 01:34 PM
things look good from the baseline. the balls out of the strike zone or on the move were a bit more shaky. backhand looks technically sound and forehand doesnt look bad, but it seems there is a lot of extra motion in the backswing that might be partially to blame due to the extreme grip. with that being said, the more you continue playing, im sure youll find a groove and be able to bring your game back to where it was in college.

goran_ace
02-16-2012, 01:47 PM
Agree that his BH looks more solid and that in a match, especially if he wants to play at 5.0 , I could see that FH breaking down under duress. For just rallying, you start off hitting well but after the first minute or so you start to get a little wild so I'd like to see you work more on prep and consistency. The guy in the white seems much steadier and has nice clean strokes. Looks like he would be a good hitting partner to work with. I think you'll be alright once you get back into playing regularly. Hardest part of shaking off the rust is getting your legs back.

GuyClinch
02-16-2012, 02:14 PM
Something weird going on with the so called "Lock and Load" postion in your forehand. It looks forced and unnatural.

Maybe some posters can figure it out but I'd like to see a side view camera next time.

Timbo's hopeless slice
02-16-2012, 02:22 PM
you don't belong here, OP, this forum does not need people who can actually play posting videos

begone with you!

forthegame
02-16-2012, 02:23 PM
I'm in no way qualified to tell you how to hit but, your backhand looks as if it has a 'hitch' of some sort. I think your backhand is themore likely shot to break down. Of course, your real-life experience may be different.

LeeD
02-16-2012, 02:32 PM
Your strokes are yours, and judging the way the ball goes, is good enough for your target level and more.
Some say your forehand is wristy, but it's the way YOU hit it, and you hit it solidly and consistently.
You can trounce any 4.0 with even an underhand serve, so you're 4.5 right now. 5.0. Just conditioning and some more wide backhand practice.

Nellie
02-16-2012, 03:07 PM
I would focus on getting a little more on the toes, more knee bend. Footwork/balance does look shaky of the backhand side (shots off balance/ a lot leaning back/bending down at the waist to get low balls instead of bending the knees/etc.).

I think your backhand could be a lot better if you loosened up
and got some more left-to-right weight shift. Right now, it looks like you are stiff and are using mostly your arms to force the ball back (not a lot of racquet head speed on that side). Being your toes more might help a lot.

tennis_balla
02-16-2012, 03:09 PM
I had a look at your video, take a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Bwrk8a1ek

Jakesteroni
02-16-2012, 04:32 PM
I had a look at your video, take a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Bwrk8a1ek

Thanks a lot. I couldn't really see what the members were talking about until that breakdown. My backhand is actually my weaker side, but I think its because the technique is simple which may make it look more consistent.

I'm going to get out to hit tonight and will focus on my elbow positioning. Would you mind taking a look at Andy Roddicks forehand, I would think my forehand is closest in comparison if to anybody pro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ17FZrzkEY&feature=fvst notice the elbow.

I appreciate everyone taking the time for the feedback. No apologies needed as I take this as constructive opinions.

LeeD
02-16-2012, 04:38 PM
I'm at a much lower level than TBalla, but I think since your goal is 5.0, not 7.0, your high elbow forehand is just fine, IF you hit it hard, it goes in, and it stands up under pressure. Some top 10's have a forehand "hitch" like yours, Andy, DelPo, and some other guys just out of that level.
Right now, you hit it hard, it goes in, it looks like it goes where you want, but we can't predict how it holds under "pressure".
We all hit our individual style.
If JimmyConnors would post his strokes here.....
If JohnMcEnroe would post his strokes here....
If ChrissieE would post her strokes here....
We'd say...." you maxed out your stroke production, now change it so you can hit harder with more spin and hopefully get better".........:):):)
A groundie forehand matters, but only a small part of the total equation.

Limpinhitter
02-16-2012, 04:38 PM
Critique it. All honesty is appreciated. My fitness is definitely not there as it is something I am working on this year. Lost all fitness and footwork when I stopped playing for 2 years.

I laid off tennis for quite a while due to relocating and work and have been trying to get back to a 5.0 level. You could say this is the beginning of my journey to that point thanks for being apart of it.

My hitting partner is not rated, for now he only rally's. I am the guy in the black shirt closest to the camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMs4-aPOXfw

Your stroke production looks good. But, your footwork and shot preparation are a bit ponderous and inconsistent, although, it's a bit better on your backhand side. I didn't like your closed/neutral stance forehands. Hustle more and get set up with an open stance on the forehand. I also don't think I saw you hit a single cross court forehand and only a few crosscourt backhands. I agree with Balla that your forehand windup is too complicated. IMO, Roddick isn't the best model to emulate. I much prefer Nadal and Djokovic's FH's to emulate.

kiteboard
02-16-2012, 04:43 PM
Fh is his better side, but footwork is too slow, weight too high, not enough weight into the shots launching forward, not enough back wards coil. Where are you located? I'm in Oakland if you want to hit. You need better practice partners to reach 5.0.

tlm
02-16-2012, 04:44 PM
Your strokes are yours, and judging the way the ball goes, is good enough for your target level and more.
Some say your forehand is wristy, but it's the way YOU hit it, and you hit it solidly and consistently.
You can trounce any 4.0 with even an underhand serve, so you're 4.5 right now. 5.0. Just conditioning and some more wide backhand practice.



I agree with Lee here, your strokes are very good. I guess there is always something people can find that looks a little unusual. But like Lee points out these are your strokes and if you ask me you have very good ones.

Like others have said get in better shape and start playing some matches.

5263
02-16-2012, 04:51 PM
I had a look at your video, take a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Bwrk8a1ek

I think balla has some pretty good stuff on your Fh above, but would have to see how hard it is to disrupt your Fh to be sure. If that Fh does not break down on you and you have excellent confidence in it, I would be reluctant to change much.

To your OP about getting to 5.0, It's going to be a lot about getting wins at this point. After you decide about that Fh, your basic rally looks pretty strong, so if you have similar with other strokes, it will be more about execution and strategy. Your strategy will dictate your tactics and your tactics will dictate your targets. When you work thru that process mentally, you can then choose targets for each of your strokes that fit with your tactics which are part of your overall strategy. I would suggest to set priorities on the tactics/targets you expect to employ most in building points and spend 60-80% of your time with them and the balance of your time on the lower priority items.

For example for an all court player, he could spend 75% of his work on execution to strategic targets for Fh/Bh rally shots (including slices), strong second serve, serve rtns, and mid court attack shots(including slice and dropshot). He could use 20% of his work on 1st serve, volleys, overheads, and half volleys. The remaining 5% left could be allotted to phys training like CrossFit.

tennis_balla
02-16-2012, 04:56 PM
Thanks a lot. I couldn't really see what the members were talking about until that breakdown. My backhand is actually my weaker side, but I think its because the technique is simple which may make it look more consistent.

I'm going to get out to hit tonight and will focus on my elbow positioning. Would you mind taking a look at Andy Roddicks forehand, I would think my forehand is closest in comparison if to anybody pro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ17FZrzkEY&feature=fvst notice the elbow.

I appreciate everyone taking the time for the feedback. No apologies needed as I take this as constructive opinions.

Roddicks forehand has a couple things different, which make it smoother. His elbow is higher as well and his racket points forward. I have no problem with either, however in your case as I pointed out in the video your racket is completely parallel with the baseline with the buttcap pointing to the side fence. The difference with Andy is, his racket head is still more or less pointing up where as in your case your grip and your racket head are at the exact same level and and parallel to each other and thats where the problem lies in my opinion.
When you watch Andy's backswing his racket head is always above his grip, and then he initiates his forward swing and has that semi C shape leading up to his contact point. Hope that made sense.

kengan
02-16-2012, 06:13 PM
Your forehand looks a lot stronger than your backhand, but I do believe that people have a case. With the grip and the swing motion that you have now, you probably won't be able to handle the actual match shots.
Just out of curiosity, what level do you see yourself as of now, and is that a semi-western grip? It looks to be something between SW and Extreme.

ATP100
02-16-2012, 06:24 PM
Stop running around your backhand.

Jakesteroni
02-16-2012, 09:23 PM
Roddicks forehand has a couple things different, which make it smoother. His elbow is higher as well and his racket points forward. I have no problem with either, however in your case as I pointed out in the video your racket is completely parallel with the baseline with the buttcap pointing to the side fence. The difference with Andy is, his racket head is still more or less pointing up where as in your case your grip and your racket head are at the exact same level and and parallel to each other and thats where the problem lies in my opinion.
When you watch Andy's backswing his racket head is always above his grip, and then he initiates his forward swing and has that semi C shape leading up to his contact point. Hope that made sense.

I see now when I compare it. Thanks.

Your forehand looks a lot stronger than your backhand, but I do believe that people have a case. With the grip and the swing motion that you have now, you probably won't be able to handle the actual match shots.
Just out of curiosity, what level do you see yourself as of now, and is that a semi-western grip? It looks to be something between SW and Extreme.

I play 4.5 now, its a western grip.

kiteboard
02-16-2012, 09:28 PM
You also are not concentrating on the "shield" in front of you, the point of contact varies without thought. (If you place your arm out high up, with elbow straight, and then lower it to waist ht., notice how that contact point is father out in front, than the higher or lower positions if you raise or lower your arm.) Your timing has to be more cognizant of the "shield". Wait longer for the low balls and high balls to come into perfect range than the medium balls. Roddicks fh is considered a sub par one on tour, due to its overly spinny nature and lacking in penetration.

Cheetah
02-17-2012, 02:24 AM
You've gotten some tips and suggestions which should help. I'd like to add some input. don't get mad. just my opinion and trying to help...

You have good control and can hit top fairly well. but...

Wimpy shots. You shots don't penetrate the court. You swing fast/hard and the camera angle is at an advantageous angle so a lot of ppl here might think you are crushing the ball. But the actually those shots you are hitting are soft.

If you look at your partner he's standing directly on baseline. He doesn't have to hit on the rise. Almost every shot he takes is when the ball is falling. That means your ball is not rising as it crosses the baseline. Also another indicator is look how much time he has. It looks like he has a loooooot of time to set up and return the ball. Also he's not shifting his weight into the ball and he's getting them all back. That means your shot has no weight to it. He has a lot of time to set up, he has a leisurely slow take back, a casual swing, not hitting on the rise and doesn't require any weight shift to fight off your ball. That equals wimpy ball.

Now I can tell you are putting a lot of effort into your swing and all that so let's not go with the 'i was just rallying' reply. You need more power or a heavier ball or however you want to look at it. If I were rallying with you I'd be stepping inside and crushing those balls back to you. Hard.

So I think one of the things you need to work on is getting some heaviness in to the shots. I think if you play an experienced 4.5 at this point you're going to have to work hard for a win.

Plus that little hitch in your fh will most likely to cause problems come crunch time.

So... get to it! good luck.

0d1n
02-17-2012, 07:05 AM
You've gotten some tips and suggestions which should help. I'd like to add some input. don't get mad. just my opinion and trying to help...

You have good control and can hit top fairly well. but...

Wimpy shots. You shots don't penetrate the court. You swing fast/hard and the camera angle is at an advantageous angle so a lot of ppl here might think you are crushing the ball. But the actually those shots you are hitting are soft.

If you look at your partner he's standing directly on baseline. He doesn't have to hit on the rise. Almost every shot he takes is when the ball is falling. That means your ball is not rising as it crosses the baseline. Also another indicator is look how much time he has. It looks like he has a loooooot of time to set up and return the ball. Also he's not shifting his weight into the ball and he's getting them all back. That means your shot has no weight to it. He has a lot of time to set up, he has a leisurely slow take back, a casual swing, not hitting on the rise and doesn't require any weight shift to fight off your ball. That equals wimpy ball.

Now I can tell you are putting a lot of effort into your swing and all that so let's not go with the 'i was just rallying' reply. You need more power or a heavier ball or however you want to look at it. If I were rallying with you I'd be stepping inside and crushing those balls back to you. Hard.

So I think one of the things you need to work on is getting some heaviness in to the shots. I think if you play an experienced 4.5 at this point you're going to have to work hard for a win.

Plus that little hitch in your fh will most likely to cause problems come crunch time.

So... get to it! good luck.


Have you ever watched yourself on video ?? (Playing tennis, not in other "athletic circumstances").

Power Player
02-17-2012, 07:11 AM
True, there is no coach will let you execute your forehand that way. The in and out of your forearm, the wristy movement of your hand will break down once in real match and high speed ball. I do not see any pro hit the way you hit.
I'm sorry
Your backhand look solid and very good.

Wrong. Jack Sock hits the same way. I would not change it.

And unless peoplespeace posted a new video that I am unaware of, he is not close to your level. your strokes look very solid and consistent to me.

I also disagree with Cheetah. I don't think he understands how clean you are hitting in this video for just getting back to things.

chico9166
02-17-2012, 07:35 AM
True, there is no coach will let you execute your forehand that way. The in and out of your forearm, the wristy movement of your hand will break down once in real match and high speed ball. I do not see any pro hit the way you hit.
I'm sorry
Your backhand look solid and very good.
You have no idea whether or not it would break down in a match. I doubt it would, even though it's a bit idiosyncratic.

Ducker
02-17-2012, 07:49 AM
dont listen to many of these guys like cheeyah. they shouldnt be on here giving advice they arnt coaches and they arent at a high level.

im a 4.5-5.0 i think ur strokes look fine. there is no way for anyone to determine if how they would manage during a match. but my guess is it would be just fine...would like to see your serve you should post that.

but again dont listen to some of these people are full of it

5263
02-17-2012, 09:19 AM
I see now when I compare it. Thanks.

I play 4.5 now, its a western grip.

I think being over concerned about your Fh is a great way to not get to 5.0 quickly. You don't see the value of working on a method to develop your overall game? If you think getting to 5.0 is about mainly having a couple of excellent strokes, then that will be the biggest block to getting there imho. You already said the Fh was your better side.

Ash_Smith
02-17-2012, 09:41 AM
I'm not going to add much as Balla has pretty much said it already, other than to say I actually prefer your backhand to your forehand. Your backhand is tidy and compact, and but for a bit more extension with your left arm through contact, I really like it comported to your forehand. I'm not a huge fan of elbow led forehands, as there can be timing issues, and I think, as Balla said, that's where that 'hitch' comes from in your swing.

However, I think you're generally doing a great job so far, so keep it up.

Cheers

NLBwell
02-17-2012, 09:43 AM
Your groundstrokes are fine for 5.0. Just more practice will get them back to where they were. The main thing you need to do is work on the rest of your game. Volleys, half-volleys, short balls, approaches, lobs, drop shots. These are shots you need in a match, but may hit rarely. Therefore, you aren't naturally going to get much practice on these so you have to make a point of working on them.
As always the most important shot is the serve. A couple of baskets a day, at least.

Cheetah
02-17-2012, 11:18 AM
Have you ever watched yourself on video ?? (Playing tennis, not in other "athletic circumstances").

yes i know video makes it appear slower than it actually is. It makes the ball look like it flies slower. It doesn't make ppl appear to move slower tho.

Cheetah
02-17-2012, 11:20 AM
Wrong. Jack Sock hits the same way. I would not change it.

And unless peoplespeace posted a new video that I am unaware of, he is not close to your level. your strokes look very solid and consistent to me.

I also disagree with Cheetah. I don't think he understands how clean you are hitting in this video for just getting back to things.

I said he is hitting well. Clean doesn't equal power. Most of his shots do not penetrate the court. That's a fact. and look at the guy he's hitting with. He's standing right on the baseline. He's not 5 feet behind it. he's not even 1 foot behind the baseline. he's standing on the baseline. Have you guys ever hit with someone who you'd consider "hits hard"? Do you stand right on the baseline when you hit with this person and have a lot of time to execute a casual stroke? I don't think so.

Cheetah
02-17-2012, 11:59 AM
Roddicks forehand has a couple things different, which make it smoother. His elbow is higher as well and his racket points forward. I have no problem with either, however in your case as I pointed out in the video your racket is completely parallel with the baseline with the buttcap pointing to the side fence. The difference with Andy is, his racket head is still more or less pointing up where as in your case your grip and your racket head are at the exact same level and and parallel to each other and thats where the problem lies in my opinion.
When you watch Andy's backswing his racket head is always above his grip, and then he initiates his forward swing and has that semi C shape leading up to his contact point. Hope that made sense.

Nice video. Nice that you took time to do that for him. That's worth $$ right there.

Power Player
02-17-2012, 12:12 PM
I said he is hitting well. Clean doesn't equal power. Most of his shots do not penetrate the court. That's a fact. and look at the guy he's hitting with. He's standing right on the baseline. He's not 5 feet behind it. he's not even 1 foot behind the baseline. he's standing on the baseline. Have you guys ever hit with someone who you'd consider "hits hard"? Do you stand right on the baseline when you hit with this person and have a lot of time to execute a casual stroke? I don't think so.

lol..ok man. His partner is prepping rather well and many times is hampered on his return due to his positioning. Plus they are rallying, not hitting hard.

You sound like a guy who likes to hit hard when he rallys. Thats great. Doesn't translate to match play though. Do you play a lot of matches or still just do rallys like you said before? Because I think you are the guy who claimed to be a 4.5 and then admitted you barely ever play matches.

Cheetah
02-17-2012, 12:40 PM
You sound like a guy who likes to hit hard when he rallys. Thats great. Doesn't translate to match play though.

Pace doesn't translate to match play? Really? Giving the opponent less time to react has no impact on a point? ok.

Opponent can prep well because he has a lot of time. OP arms a lot of shots and is not transferring weight into the ball. If you can't see that then look at balla's video. And opponent is definitely not 'hampered many times'. He mishits a few times because he's hitting with a casual stroke. OP's forehand is a little on the slappy side. And slapping without proper weight transfer is going to equal soft ball.

It doesnt matter if I am a 3.5 or a 5.5. The points i've given stand regardless. And it doesnt matter if they are rallying or hitting hard. You can clearly see the op is swinging hard. He has good racquet speed. Are you saying if he decided to 'hit hard' then his form would look totally different and he'd be driving through the ball and bending his knees more and have a more pronounced left hand extension and have a lot of weight transfer and rotating more into the shot?

The fact is most of the balls are barely or not rising when they reach the baseline on the other side. If he wants to get to 5.0 he has to change that.

rkelley
02-17-2012, 01:20 PM
You sound like a guy who likes to hit hard when he rallys. Thats great. Doesn't translate to match play though.

It does if you can do it consistently and under match pressure.

And even if it doesn't translate well right now, if you hit hard with good form you'll eventually get consistency with practice. I personally think it's a lot harder to have consistent but poor form and try to develop higher level pace and spin.

Power Player
02-17-2012, 01:40 PM
Pace doesn't translate to match play? Really? Giving the opponent less time to react has no impact on a point? ok.

Opponent can prep well because he has a lot of time. OP arms a lot of shots and is not transferring weight into the ball. If you can't see that then look at balla's video. And opponent is definitely not 'hampered many times'. He mishits a few times because he's hitting with a casual stroke. OP's forehand is a little on the slappy side. And slapping without proper weight transfer is going to equal soft ball.

It doesnt matter if I am a 3.5 or a 5.5. The points i've given stand regardless. And it doesnt matter if they are rallying or hitting hard. You can clearly see the op is swinging hard. He has good racquet speed. Are you saying if he decided to 'hit hard' then his form would look totally different and he'd be driving through the ball and bending his knees more and have a more pronounced left hand extension and have a lot of weight transfer and rotating more into the shot?

The fact is most of the balls are barely or not rising when they reach the baseline on the other side. If he wants to get to 5.0 he has to change that.

Let me know when you can hit as consistent did as the OP under match pressure at any level. It is not easy. He is just rallying so it's not the same as a match. You want to get a groove going with your partner and work on timing and footwork.

OP has really good strokes. I would not look at them and classify them as wimpy.

Cheetah
02-17-2012, 01:54 PM
Let me know when you can hit as consistent did as the OP under match pressure at any level. It is not easy. He is just rallying so it's not the same as a match. You want to get a groove going with your partner and work on timing and footwork.

OP has really good strokes. I would not look at them and classify them as wimpy.

ok wimpy was excessive. let me reword.
OP, you have good strokes. I think you need to have a little more penetration on your shots.

Power Player
02-17-2012, 01:58 PM
Do you like deep shots? Because there is a huge discussion on if more shallow balls placed closer to the alleys are the better option.

Just something interesting to ponder. I am used to hitting deep, but I have lately been hitting more shallow and heavy with angles. The shots are safer, but still very hard to attack.

Cheetah
02-17-2012, 02:10 PM
Let me know when you can hit as consistent did as the OP under match pressure at any level. It is not easy. He is just rallying so it's not the same as a match. You want to get a groove going with your partner and work on timing and footwork.

OP has really good strokes. I would not look at them and classify them as wimpy.

Yes he is rallying. So why are you asking if I could hit with the same consistency under match pressure? What does it matter? Do you think the OP could? The thread is about the OP. not about what I can do or how well you can hit heavy angled short balls that can't be attacked.

aimr75
02-17-2012, 04:44 PM
I had a look at your video, take a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Bwrk8a1ek

Nice analysis there

Roddicks forehand has a couple things different, which make it smoother. His elbow is higher as well and his racket points forward. I have no problem with either, however in your case as I pointed out in the video your racket is completely parallel with the baseline with the buttcap pointing to the side fence. The difference with Andy is, his racket head is still more or less pointing up where as in your case your grip and your racket head are at the exact same level and and parallel to each other and thats where the problem lies in my opinion.
When you watch Andy's backswing his racket head is always above his grip, and then he initiates his forward swing and has that semi C shape leading up to his contact point. Hope that made sense.

The racquet tip being above the hand throughout the takeback is something I've noticed many pros do. It's something ive been working on trying myself since the racquet tip for me was also more in line with my hitting hand. Curious as to your thoughts on the benefits of keeping the racquet tip up are?

Thanks

edit: doesn't have to be a comprehensive analysis or anything as I don't want to hijack the thread, but what are your thoughts on my takeback and what the racquet head is doing? I.e is it dropping too much?
http://youtu.be/YVcWXW4Lcis
It's just against a wall but it's what my latest swing looks like.

LeeD
02-17-2012, 04:49 PM
Tip up at the takeback allows the C loopy takeback, the key to a smooth fast swing from low to high.
You can take it straight back and down, but you need to stop the rearward movement and transfer over to forward movement, something like ChrissieEvert, AnkeHuber, and some pretty good ATP 100's hit.
All would be better than whatever we do right now.l

aimr75
02-17-2012, 04:57 PM
^ I actually wasn't really referring to the tip up at the start, I do this, but more so maintaining the tip up even at the completion of the takeback. The tip of the racquet would tend to drop to parallel with the ground for me like balla mentioned the OP is doing. Unless you were alluding to the entire takeback?

LeeD
02-17-2012, 05:01 PM
Tip up thru the whole process of rackethead takeback is what I"m referring to. That allows the tip to drop when the forward swing is initiated, not before, for a little extra rackethead speed and flow.

aimr75
02-17-2012, 05:24 PM
^ interesting, thanks

Cheetah
02-17-2012, 05:45 PM
Djoko has a western grip like OP. Look at the tip of his racquet here the way it points up, falls down and under the ball and forward.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2wdlDXOnMY&feature=related

LeeD
02-17-2012, 05:58 PM
The best women's forehand some time ago was from some obscure German girl who kept her rackethead well above her handle on the takeback. Huge loop, late loop, but in time to contact with power and more importantly, confidence.
The SECOND best acknowledged forehand was another German girl, straight low takeback with head below the hand.
Forehand to forehand, very close.
Steffi and Anke.
Hit with your own style. The one that has enough power and control for your game.

Jakesteroni
02-17-2012, 06:04 PM
You've gotten some tips and suggestions which should help. I'd like to add some input. don't get mad. just my opinion and trying to help...

You have good control and can hit top fairly well. but...

Wimpy shots. You shots don't penetrate the court. You swing fast/hard and the camera angle is at an advantageous angle so a lot of ppl here might think you are crushing the ball. But the actually those shots you are hitting are soft.

If you look at your partner he's standing directly on baseline. He doesn't have to hit on the rise. Almost every shot he takes is when the ball is falling. That means your ball is not rising as it crosses the baseline. Also another indicator is look how much time he has. It looks like he has a loooooot of time to set up and return the ball. Also he's not shifting his weight into the ball and he's getting them all back. That means your shot has no weight to it. He has a lot of time to set up, he has a leisurely slow take back, a casual swing, not hitting on the rise and doesn't require any weight shift to fight off your ball. That equals wimpy ball.

Now I can tell you are putting a lot of effort into your swing and all that so let's not go with the 'i was just rallying' reply. You need more power or a heavier ball or however you want to look at it. If I were rallying with you I'd be stepping inside and crushing those balls back to you. Hard.

So I think one of the things you need to work on is getting some heaviness in to the shots. I think if you play an experienced 4.5 at this point you're going to have to work hard for a win.

Plus that little hitch in your fh will most likely to cause problems come crunch time.

So... get to it! good luck.

I appreciate the feedback. I don't take any offense in what anyone says in this thread. I knew that I would get mixed reviews. I was rallying and my intentions were to do just that so people could help me with my strokes. You may be a higher level than me. If you're going to crush all my balls. Like I said I appreciate everyones help and getting my balls deeper isn't going to hurt.

You have no idea whether or not it would break down in a match. I doubt it would, even though it's a bit idiosyncratic.

That's a smart word. Thank goodness for dictionary.com

Wrong. Jack Sock hits the same way. I would not change it.

And unless peoplespeace posted a new video that I am unaware of, he is not close to your level. your strokes look very solid and consistent to me.

I also disagree with Cheetah. I don't think he understands how clean you are hitting in this video for just getting back to things.

Appreciate the compliment.

I think being over concerned about your Fh is a great way to not get to 5.0 quickly. You don't see the value of working on a method to develop your overall game? If you think getting to 5.0 is about mainly having a couple of excellent strokes, then that will be the biggest block to getting there imho. You already said the Fh was your better side.

I didn't say I didn't see the value. I do and I believe that its actually more important. I would say I have a fairly good tennis IQ that still needs developing. My strokes are just part of it. I don't know how I could show you my tennis IQ unless you watched me play an actual match. I appreciate what you have pointed out. I'll try to get a small vid of actual match play and get your opinion.

Your groundstrokes are fine for 5.0. Just more practice will get them back to where they were. The main thing you need to do is work on the rest of your game. Volleys, half-volleys, short balls, approaches, lobs, drop shots. These are shots you need in a match, but may hit rarely. Therefore, you aren't naturally going to get much practice on these so you have to make a point of working on them.
As always the most important shot is the serve. A couple of baskets a day, at least.

My volleys are horrible. Best volleys I have are drop volleys, but I know thats not good enough. Drop shots I just rarely use and you're right I should practice it. Most of the shots you're telling me I honestly don't have repitition on since most times I just go out and rally. When I do them and lose the point I kinda think well that didn't work out too well so I go back to my baseline game.

Cheetah
02-17-2012, 06:25 PM
well, i might not 'crush all your balls' but for sure my eyes would get big and i would be able to step in and take a good whack at a lot of them.

Anyway... you are pretty consistent and have good spin. I was just saying while you fine tune all of that on your 5.0 quest you might as well throw more pace on the list too and i don't necessarily mean pace alone. You need to have those balls go through the court more. Even when hit wide. Unless you are hitting a short / low pace ball for strategic reasons. I'll bet if you change that high elbow thing you'll automatically get more pace because racquet speed will most likely increase and that should also allow you to drive thru it more i think.

5263
02-17-2012, 06:33 PM
I didn't say I didn't see the value. I do and I believe that its actually more important. I would say I have a fairly good tennis IQ that still needs developing. My strokes are just part of it. I don't know how I could show you my tennis IQ unless you watched me play an actual match. I appreciate what you have pointed out. I'll try to get a small vid of actual match play and get your opinion.


Hard to get the right thing expressed in print for me sometimes, but I just noticed that most comments focused on your technique, which is pretty good. I get your point that technique is mainly what the vid shows, but vid is not all you have. You also have the OP about looking to get back to 5.0. I just wanted to make the point that all too often players chase better and better strokes, assuming that is the big key to getting better. You have stokes far better than most, and will only need mild attention to form with a bigger focus how you approach your tactics and fitness. Sorry if I came off wrong and look forward to more links you can share!
keep up the good work.

tennis_balla
02-18-2012, 02:46 AM
Nice analysis there



The racquet tip being above the hand throughout the takeback is something I've noticed many pros do. It's something ive been working on trying myself since the racquet tip for me was also more in line with my hitting hand. Curious as to your thoughts on the benefits of keeping the racquet tip up are?

Thanks

edit: doesn't have to be a comprehensive analysis or anything as I don't want to hijack the thread, but what are your thoughts on my takeback and what the racquet head is doing? I.e is it dropping too much?
http://youtu.be/YVcWXW4Lcis
It's just against a wall but it's what my latest swing looks like.

I like your swing a lot. You drop the racket head below the ball just fine I think. Look at it this way, you're hitting off drop feeds and mostly are hitting your shots at or just below waist height so your racket has to drop lower. Ideal contact point is between your waist and shoulders so it'll all even out in the end.

In terms of racket head up, in my opinion it puts your wrist in the strongest position and allows you to easily initiate your racket head drop into the slot position. Hope that helps, but I like both strokes would be great to see them on court.

tennis_balla
02-18-2012, 02:52 AM
Hard to get the right thing expressed in print for me sometimes, but I just noticed that most comments focused on your technique, which is pretty good. I get your point that technique is mainly what the vid shows, but vid is not all you have. You also have the OP about looking to get back to 5.0. I just wanted to make the point that all too often players chase better and better strokes, assuming that is the big key to getting better. You have stokes far better than most, and will only need mild attention to form with a bigger focus how you approach your tactics and fitness. Sorry if I came off wrong and look forward to more links you can share!
keep up the good work.

Yup exactly, it's always the whole package from footwork to court positioning to tactics to fitness etc. I concentrated on the forehand because of what I saw he could improve, but there's a difference between knowing how to hit your forehand and knowing how to play your forehand. Different paths, different ways to skin a cat but I think we would all arrive at the same spot.

ho
02-18-2012, 10:57 AM
Something weird going on with the so called "Lock and Load" postion in your forehand. It looks forced and unnatural.

Maybe some posters can figure it out but I'd like to see a side view camera next time.
OP flex in and out his wrist and forearm at the beginning of the take back is just to set a kinetic chain on his arm. He hit just with his arm with the help of kinetic energy to increase speed and spin. When it come to high speed ball, there is a good chance the flex and fold will break down. Keep your double bend fixed is a fundamental ingredient of all good stroke.
OP can easely set his kinetic chain by dragging his arm ( it's the largest solid chain) following by the flex in and flex out at the beginning of the foward motion if he prefer. Absolutely, when you want to learn, you try to learn from Federer or D.J, not Jack Sock (no disrespect to Jack) just for the cause of you have more chance to succed when you try to learn from a higher proven player.

Torres
02-18-2012, 12:05 PM
I had a look at your video, take a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Bwrk8a1ek

That's a good analysis and video.

5263
02-18-2012, 12:42 PM
Yup exactly, it's always the whole package from footwork to court positioning to tactics to fitness etc. I concentrated on the forehand because of what I saw he could improve, but there's a difference between knowing how to hit your forehand and knowing how to play your forehand. Different paths, different ways to skin a cat but I think we would all arrive at the same spot.

Yep, and you know I support your excellent comments on his Fh, as I stated in the first post I made. I just figured you covered that quite well (along with all the others who piled in on that) and as he worked on that he could also continue to work on the other items that will be just as important, if not more given he seems to make that Fh work pretty well.

ho
02-18-2012, 01:00 PM
That's a good analysis and video.
Be honnest, I did not see the analysis, There is some fundamental things that OP did not do:
1/ Racket head point up: it will make you draw a larger C: result: more initial racket speed when it drop down, racket head will go up on the foward motion: add spin.
2/ Keep your double bend fixed, that will eliminate all floopy motion result in errors and loss speed.
3/ During the foward motion, elbow should keep in and point down as can possible. Avoid bringing up high.
4/ Set your kinetic chain from dragging your arm behind your shoulder, your hand behind your forearm. All that is executed on the forward motion, not in the take back.
5/ Leave the flex out forearm to Federer and all his fan (straight arm). Your name is not Federer.
6/ Try to avoid wrist as much as possible. It can lead you to a rocky unconsistant road.

If you fixe all that, then You can be confident as a 5.0.

Torres
02-18-2012, 03:21 PM
^ I have no idea what you're trying to say.

aimr75
02-19-2012, 12:34 AM
I like your swing a lot. You drop the racket head below the ball just fine I think. Look at it this way, you're hitting off drop feeds and mostly are hitting your shots at or just below waist height so your racket has to drop lower. Ideal contact point is between your waist and shoulders so it'll all even out in the end.

In terms of racket head up, in my opinion it puts your wrist in the strongest position and allows you to easily initiate your racket head drop into the slot position. Hope that helps, but I like both strokes would be great to see them on court.

tennis_balla, thanks for the feedback, it's been a while since taking some video but will try get some and post it at some point. Thanks

Magic of tennis
02-19-2012, 01:21 AM
I had a look at your video, take a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Bwrk8a1ek

That was great analysis. I am glad we have someone like you here who can actually give great visual correction.
I hope someday you can give me same visual analysis for my strokes. I will be
greatful.

ho
02-19-2012, 08:15 AM
The racquet tip being above the hand throughout the takeback is something I've noticed many pros do. It's something ive been working on trying myself since the racquet tip for me was also more in line with my hitting hand. Curious as to your thoughts on the benefits of keeping the racquet tip up are?

When you keep your racket up (point to sky):
1/ You draw a bigger C: racket has an initial speed to start the forward motion. You have more spin with the upward motion of the low part of your C.
2/ Your timing from the waiting to the hitting is shorter than keep the tip point to the net. You have more chance to hit with body and arm as one unit
3/ If you turn your racket face to the side, you do a serie of: pronate, supinate, pronate: it will make you pronate at contact easier and more powerfull . than just supinate and pronate.

ho
02-19-2012, 08:22 AM
^ I have no idea what you're trying to say.
If you need me to explain step by step, just tell me what you do not have any idea in each step.

NLBwell
02-19-2012, 10:20 PM
IMy volleys are horrible. Best volleys I have are drop volleys, but I know thats not good enough. Drop shots I just rarely use and you're right I should practice it. Most of the shots you're telling me I honestly don't have repitition on since most times I just go out and rally. When I do them and lose the point I kinda think well that didn't work out too well so I go back to my baseline game.

Very common, which is why I wrote my post. However, it is sad because you are missing out on a lot of fun and limiting yourself as a player. Remember, rally shots are fine, but you only hit them in a match if your opponent is cooperative. If you are playing me, you may only get to hit one waist-high rally ball in an entire match.

LeeD
02-21-2012, 12:34 PM
If your volleys are bad, practice hitting volleys!
Watch some pros, do what they do.

Playnice
02-21-2012, 06:12 PM
Instead of stepping into the ball on the FH pull back towards the back fence

Hold your finish on the BH

kiteboard
02-21-2012, 07:55 PM
Lendl had a high elbow on the fh. Guess who learned it from him? Sampras as well, and they did damn well with it. High elbow is no problem for many.

Limpinhitter
02-21-2012, 08:04 PM
tennis_balla, thanks for the feedback, it's been a while since taking some video but will try get some and post it at some point. Thanks

How's that 2hb coming along?

aimr75
02-23-2012, 04:01 PM
How's that 2hb coming along?

Ive had a wrist issue (did some work around the house and hurt it), so havent played properly in a couple months. Could hardly lift a racquet let alone swing one. Getting better now so hopefully will put some time into it.

I've been dabbling at home (shadow swings) with different takebacks and trying the left arm thing. With the takebacks, just seeing what feels most comfortable for me. The 'Safin' smile pattern takeback sometimes feels awkward. Have been trying the berdych/murray takeback of just keeping the racquet tip up and just doing a straight take back (keeping the arms mostly passive and just doing a unit turn)

a bit like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YsMLBAKn9MU#t=28s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvBVFDozccQ

Ryoma
02-24-2012, 04:10 AM
What's the point of all these stroke analysis? Go play more matches and try to win more of them.

Coach: Roger, on your forehand, you should bend at the elbow and do the windshield wiper thingy on the finish. MAKE SURE you use a semi western or western grip, otherwise, you won't be able to put any spin on the ball~!

Roger: No thanks, Coach. I dominates the men's tour with my straight arm, wristy, eastern-ish grip forehand with tons of spins...

aimr75
02-24-2012, 05:00 AM
What's the point of all these stroke analysis? Go play more matches and try to win more of them.

Coach: Roger, on your forehand, you should bend at the elbow and do the windshield wiper thingy on the finish. MAKE SURE you use a semi western or western grip, otherwise, you won't be able to put any spin on the ball~!

Roger: No thanks, Coach. I dominates the men's tour with my straight arm, wristy, eastern-ish grip forehand with tons of spins...

Yes I'm sure Roger or any high level player has never analysed their strokes in an effort to improve stroke production which in turn helps them win more matches :roll:

DavaiMarat
02-24-2012, 07:13 AM
An interesting study here. I looked at balla's critique and I agree with him. You're take back has a little Ivan Lendl high elbow however instead of the racquet head parrallel to the ground or down, yours is still pointing up. This leaves a lot more last second readjustment to hit a mid or lower ball.

Not only is this harder to hit but it robs you of control and power. Don't get me wrong it's not a bad forehand by any means but I can see if breaking down if your not in optimal position. In laymen terms it's not very direct on to the ball. I know you feel this swing path will get you more spin and you may be right but for the difficulty it adds it's not a good trade.

To be honest, I really like how your friend hits the ball. His strokes are compact and efficient. He seems to deflect your pace without much problem. I can see him sustaining long rallies much easier then you especially when moved around the court. Again, that's only my humble opinion.

To the same point, you may think your BH is weaker but it's compact in simpler. With a little more emphasis on footwork and opening the core I think your backhand could be better then your forehand - steadier for sure. One thing you'll have to incorporate to the BH is a little more spin and net clearance...don't drive it flat all the time.

You're a good player...but this is what I see from my coaching experience with juniors. Steady wins at singles...decrease your Racq path length/Simplify the stroke and aim for higher margins on the backhand. You're fitness will come. Anyways if I was coaching you this is what I would have you work on.

ho
02-24-2012, 07:47 AM
What's the point of all these stroke analysis? Go play more matches and try to win more of them.

Coach: Roger, on your forehand, you should bend at the elbow and do the windshield wiper thingy on the finish. MAKE SURE you use a semi western or western grip, otherwise, you won't be able to put any spin on the ball~!

Roger: No thanks, Coach. I dominates the men's tour with my straight arm, wristy, eastern-ish grip forehand with tons of spins...
Coach: woaooo, Roger how do you do that?
Roger: I don't know, I'm not a coach.
Coach: then why do you come to this site?
Roger: I don't know either. Just stupid, I guess

gindyo
02-24-2012, 07:53 AM
@OP, as great as balla's analysis was, I don't think tinkering with your forehand alone will get you to the next level. I am not saying you shouldn't try to improve it, by all means do, but I guarantee you it will not be the quickest way to achieve you goal of 5.0, if anything you will get worse before you get better. For the 5.0 you are aiming your current form on both wings is plenty good. You will be much better served if you were to work on you fitness and point construction (including serve and return) then trying to fix something that isn't so bad to begin with. At this point you should concentrate on consistency, direction, spin, speed in that order. Try and experiment with these and find out what wins you matches against the different kinds of players.
Just my two cents...

gindyo
02-24-2012, 08:04 AM
@OP I think this is the kind of tread that may help you get to the next level http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=410094
and there was another really good one where they had pictures of jocovic's shot placement, but I couldn't find it.

5263
02-24-2012, 08:16 AM
@OP I think this is the kind of tread that may help you get to the next level http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=410094
and there was another really good one where they had pictures of jocovic's shot placement, but I couldn't find it.

You may be talking of this one.
Look at post 4 for the DJ shot placements along with the Targets depicted
in that thread.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=413112

gindyo
02-24-2012, 08:18 AM
You may be talking of this one.
Look at post 4 for the DJ shot placements along with the Targets depicted
in that thread.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=413112

Yep, that is the one!

peoplespeace
03-31-2012, 01:30 PM
Wrong. Jack Sock hits the same way. I would not change it.

And unless peoplespeace posted a new video that I am unaware of, he is not close to your level. your strokes look very solid and consistent to me.

I also disagree with Cheetah. I don't think he understands how clean you are hitting in this video for just getting back to things.

If i posted a video now u woud get health problems.....i hope ull survive when i get my first atp point(s)!

Jakesteroni
04-08-2014, 10:56 PM
Tennis_Balla,

I'm back. I believe I've fixed the high elbow raise. Last video you had for feedback was great. Appreciate the time you took out to make that. Let me know what you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB4Og5m-ICg

ProgressoR
04-09-2014, 06:23 AM
I had a look at your video, take a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Bwrk8a1ek

This is impressive, I haven't watched it all yet but the fact balla was willing to take the time out to do it this way.....


And your voice sounds like it's broken early for a 12 year old.

Spin Doctor
04-09-2014, 07:01 AM
This is impressive, I haven't watched it all yet but the fact balla was willing to take the time out to do it this way.....
.

Yes. Nice job, Balla. Your voice sounds like Milos...must be the Canadian accent.

chizzle
04-09-2014, 07:37 AM
I think as a result of you having to (Perhaps) rush to get your arm into position (as balla pointed out), you're also late or hitting off of your back foot vs loading up on that back foot to transition weight forward into the shot.

Good stuff though.

dennis10is
04-09-2014, 06:35 PM
Critique it. All honesty is appreciated. My fitness is definitely not there as it is something I am working on this year. Lost all fitness and footwork when I stopped playing for 2 years.

I laid off tennis for quite a while due to relocating and work and have been trying to get back to a 5.0 level. You could say this is the beginning of my journey to that point thanks for being apart of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMs4-aPOXfw

I should rename this thread to "looking for hitches"

If you've played at 5.0 once, you should be able to do it again. 5.0 player should have enough self-knowledge that they are recreate their form, the form that they once had.

Are you really saying... "I was never a 5.0 so now I want help but I don't want to be able to say I was once a 5.0?