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tlm
02-18-2012, 07:44 AM
A short video of me and my hitting partner. I am in the far court with the visor on, my friend is in the near court.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF2rxFjBmLk&feature=channel

Bacterio
02-18-2012, 08:13 AM
You looking for advice or just want people to see you hit? Got any new video? I remember a long while back when you posted your 00186 vid and people tried to offer some advice.

You just fought everyone tooth and nail about their advice and claimed everything you did worked just fine. Some new video would be great to see if you've progressed.

sureshs
02-18-2012, 08:46 AM
Dude you are worse than me and that is not good.

On the forehand, you have taken the modern tennis thing too far, falling backwards with open stance to throw up slow and loopy balls at a high altitude. You are also muscling the ball instead of using weight transfer.

On the backhand, you are slicing low balls way up over the net instead of keeping it low or hitting over the ball with TS.

Not at all like how the pros are doing it. You should try to be a mini-me of the pros.

tlm
02-18-2012, 08:59 AM
You looking for advice or just want people to see you hit? Got any new video? I remember a long while back when you posted your 00186 vid and people tried to offer some advice.

You just fought everyone tooth and nail about their advice and claimed everything you did worked just fine. Some new video would be great to see if you've progressed.


I have a few new videos i will post of playing a few points. Never claimed that everything worked fine, i went out and worked on some of the good advise i received.

If you look back at those videos and read my responses i listened to many of the comments so you are way off on those remarks. I did try to explain some of the reasons i hit like i do but then some like you claimed that i was disagreeing.

I did not start playing tennis until i was 46 years old, and i know i have some weird strokes. But i enjoy the game and i just keep on playing and trying to improve.

tlm
02-18-2012, 09:09 AM
Dude you are worse than me and that is not good.

On the forehand, you have taken the modern tennis thing too far, falling backwards with open stance to throw up slow and loopy balls at a high altitude. You are also muscling the ball instead of using weight transfer.

On the backhand, you are slicing low balls way up over the net instead of keeping it low or hitting over the ball with TS.

Not at all like how the pros are doing it. You should try to be a mini-me of the pros.



Well lets see some video of you then, i would love to play you and see how good you really are. What level you do you play? Or do you even play league tennis? I am talking singles here don't want to hear about any doubles play.

Last year for the indoor season i played 3.5 first singles in 2 leagues, with one of the leagues the top singles players are 90% 4.0 players. My record was 22-1. In the summer i played in a outdoor league at the 4.0 level which was more like 3.5 and i went undefeated.

So i went up in that league to the 4.5 level which i would consider a solid 4.0 for the rest of last year and finished 9-6.

stormholloway
02-18-2012, 09:38 AM
The near guy hits a pretty sweet Lendl style forehand. I like it.

Far guy needs to lean into shots more. Looks like you're always falling backwards and never driving through shots.

tlm
02-18-2012, 09:50 AM
Here are a few clips of us playing some points. The first 2 show me then the last 1 shows my partner who is a good player, we had a hard time getting the whole court in while filming indoors.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjE4se62MKA&list=PL612A25ECCCD820CA&feature=mh_lolz

tlm
02-18-2012, 09:53 AM
The near guy hits a pretty sweet Lendl style forehand. I like it.

Far guy needs to lean into shots more. Looks like you're always falling backwards and never driving through shots.

Ya my partner is a pretty good player, he has nice strokes.

sureshs
02-18-2012, 10:34 AM
Well lets see some video of you then, i would love to play you and see how good you really are. What level you do you play? Or do you even play league tennis? I am talking singles here don't want to hear about any doubles play.

Last year for the indoor season i played 3.5 first singles in 2 leagues, with one of the leagues the top singles players are 90% 4.0 players. My record was 22-1. In the summer i played in a outdoor league at the 4.0 level which was more like 3.5 and i went undefeated.

So i went up in that league to the 4.5 level which i would consider a solid 4.0 for the rest of last year and finished 9-6.

I play singles for the most part. I play doubles when I have no choice.

You posted a video. If you don't like any comments, why do you post it? I don't remember anyone asking you to post.

Aren't you the guy who is always on the Oscar thread? Believe me, you don't play modern tennis like the pros at all. No pro muscles the ball with slow high loopy spin which will get killed by any decent player.

And BTW, most 4.5 club players stink. The good ones are those who played in school or college. The ones who learned later have so many blatant faults in their technique that they are unwatchable.

sureshs
02-18-2012, 10:34 AM
Ya my partner is a pretty good player, he has nice strokes.

Yes I agree with that. Your partner is good.

sureshs
02-18-2012, 10:36 AM
I did not start playing tennis until i was 46 years old, and i know i have some weird strokes. But i enjoy the game and i just keep on playing and trying to improve.

Good for you, but that doesn't make you a good player, which is what you seem to want to hear.

tlm
02-18-2012, 10:47 AM
Good for you, but that doesn't make you a good player, which is what you seem to want to hear.

I never said anything like that, i know i am not a good player. But again where is some video of you hitting? What level do you play at? You seem to avoid that question for some reason.

You say that most 4.5 club players stink, well my partner who you said that you thought was a good player is between a strong 4.0 and 4.5 player at our club.

maggmaster
02-18-2012, 10:50 AM
His record makes him an above average club player. I don't know if you have some kind of external beef going on here but you are coming off a bit caustic, just so you know.

OP: Nice video, you can get some more on that forehand if you focus on turning the whole body and then rotating out of the turn into the ball. Focus on your off arm becoming parallel to the baseline in your wind up. On the backhand, lock the wrist and keep the arm straight through contact, the camera should see your back turned to it in the prep.

equinox
02-18-2012, 10:57 AM
No matter the ugly strokes, if OP can win at his level, good on him.

He can sustain a rally, so i'm forced to automatically hand over a 3.5 badge. :D

OP the should be playing opens for humilities sake.

canuckfan
02-18-2012, 11:00 AM
I think you guys are being a little harsh. Maybe tlm has been a bit ornery in the past but everyone deserves a second chance. This thread started in a neutral tone, there's no need to make it ugly.

Tlm, you have good spin and some decent power. Your game is kind of one dimensional, but at the 4.0 level you will do just fine. If you want to go further you'll need to work on footwork and movement, and you'll need to be effective in the front half of the court (transition game and net play). Smart players will force you into net with shots you can't attack easily, and then they'll pass you/lob you. Also, once you get to strong 4.5+ levels, your spin will not get you the free points it does now. You will need to drive through the forehand more, and develop a consistent topspin/flat backhand. I don't know about your serve/return -- of course they are really important. Make sure you have a solid second serve with placement and spin. Keep it up.

tlm
02-18-2012, 11:02 AM
His record makes him an above average club player. I don't know if you have some kind of external beef going on here but you are coming off a bit caustic, just so you know.

OP: Nice video, you can get some more on that forehand if you focus on turning the whole body and then rotating out of the turn into the ball. Focus on your off arm becoming parallel to the baseline in your wind up. On the backhand, lock the wrist and keep the arm straight through contact, the camera should see your back turned to it in the prep.


Thanks for the tips, you are right about the the off arm sometimes i do get it parallel to the baseline but other times it is all over the place.

sureshs
02-18-2012, 11:20 AM
I never said anything like that, i know i am not a good player. But again where is some video of you hitting? What level do you play at? You seem to avoid that question for some reason.

You say that most 4.5 club players stink, well my partner who you said that you thought was a good player is between a strong 4.0 and 4.5 player at our club.

So he is not one of the "most" players.

People on this forum have played with me. But I don't take/post videos of myself or others. I don't like to take photos either unless I am forced to. I believe in keeping impressions in my head and living in the moment, which is why I don't like to take pictures when on vacation. People find it weird but to me the past is gone once it is gone.

I model myself after the pros.

tlm
02-18-2012, 11:24 AM
I think you guys are being a little harsh. Maybe tlm has been a bit ornery in the past but everyone deserves a second chance. This thread started in a neutral tone, there's no need to make it ugly.

Tlm, you have good spin and some decent power. Your game is kind of one dimensional, but at the 4.0 level you will do just fine. If you want to go further you'll need to work on footwork and movement, and you'll need to be effective in the front half of the court (transition game and net play). Smart players will force you into net with shots you can't attack easily, and then they'll pass you/lob you. Also, once you get to strong 4.5+ levels, your spin will not get you the free points it does now. You will need to drive through the forehand more, and develop a consistent topspin/flat backhand. I don't know about your serve/return -- of course they are really important. Make sure you have a solid second serve with placement and spin. Keep it up.


Thanks for the good advise, you are right about me being to one dimensional and when i go against the strong 4.5 players i do not have enough weapons.

tlm
02-18-2012, 11:27 AM
So he is not one of the "most" players.

People on this forum have played with me. But I don't take/post videos of myself or others. I don't like to take photos either unless I am forced to. I believe in keeping impressions in my head and living in the moment, which is why I don't like to take pictures when on vacation. People find it weird but to me the past is gone once it is gone.

I model myself after the pros.


Well i knew you would have an excuse of why there is no video of you. But again what level do you play at? You just can't seem to answer that simple question.

Anyone can sit there hiding behind their keyboard, but at least i am not afraid to show myself on the court even though i know i am not very good. But you prefer to live in the moment, which really means living in a dream. Take some video of yourself on the court and then you could actually step into reality for once.

tlm
02-18-2012, 11:35 AM
No matter the ugly strokes, if OP can win at his level, good on him.

He can sustain a rally, so i'm forced to automatically hand over a 3.5 badge. :D

OP the should be playing opens for humilities sake.



Thanks for the comments, i do play quite a few players that are solid 4.5 players. So believe me i take many beat downs but keep coming back for more.

sureshs
02-18-2012, 12:52 PM
Well i knew you would have an excuse of why there is no video of you. But again what level do you play at? You just can't seem to answer that simple question.

Anyone can sit there hiding behind their keyboard, but at least i am not afraid to show myself on the court even though i know i am not very good. But you prefer to live in the moment, which really means living in a dream. Take some video of yourself on the court and then you could actually step into reality for once.

You should focus on improving your forehand and backhand.

5263
02-18-2012, 01:22 PM
Tlm, you have good spin and some decent power. Your game is kind of one dimensional, but at the 4.0 level you will do just fine. If you want to go further you'll need to work on footwork and movement, and you'll need to be effective in the front half of the court (transition game and net play). Smart players will force you into net with shots you can't attack easily, and then they'll pass you/lob you. Also, once you get to strong 4.5+ levels, your spin will not get you the free points it does now. You will need to drive through the forehand more, and develop a consistent topspin/flat backhand. I don't know about your serve/return -- of course they are really important. Make sure you have a solid second serve with placement and spin. Keep it up.

tlm, this post above is a very good one, but while you may not get the free points so easy at the higher levels, those Fh strokes will still get get you plenty of weaker returns up to almost the highest levels. Most will call it foot work, but it's really more of an early read and move to better position. You tend to let the ball play you a bit due to a late start.
I don't know what folks expect of us older guys, since we tend to be a bit stiff due to age and an accumulation of injuries thru our years. Long flexible and fluid strokes on those who learned the game well while young, are very attractive; I agree. But the facts are that beauty does not equate superior. I imagine that you, just like me, have beaten quite a few players with more attractive strokes. Also I've had to come to grips with how my strokes built playing mostly doubles, are going to be more compact and not have that long fluid look of guys who play mostly singles. Probably don't need to pay too much attention to a 3.5 who tells you what YOU need to work on.

sureshs
02-18-2012, 01:45 PM
Last year for the indoor season i played 3.5 first singles in 2 leagues, with one of the leagues the top singles players are 90% 4.0 players. My record was 22-1. In the summer i played in a outdoor league at the 4.0 level which was more like 3.5 and i went undefeated.

So i went up in that league to the 4.5 level which i would consider a solid 4.0 for the rest of last year and finished 9-6.

From your other thread video, all your serves on the ad court are FFs. So I don't think it is correct to say you won the matches - they won the matches.

MLB_MOB
02-18-2012, 01:51 PM
I will agree with some posters. You look like you are falling backward almost every forehand you hit, and your backhand slice looks way to forced. Overall you use way to much arm and not enough legs.

If I were you I would try to work on making your footwork A LOT better!!! You hardly ever move and just kind of get in the general vicinity of the where the ball is and try to hit a nadal forehand. The problem with this is that people dont realize that:

1) He is a lot more muscular than every other tennis player and
2) He actually hits through the ball and pulls up after contact, unlike what you do which is pull up during contact.

So the things I would suggest doing are trying to position yourself a lot better and stepping into the ball. Also switch to a traditional form, buggywhip forehands are not something you should be using all the time (trust me your rotator cuff will thank you later) And as for your slice try to be more fluid dont muscle it. You make it float high which defeats the point of even hitting a slice

sureshs
02-18-2012, 01:56 PM
tlm, this post above is a very good one, but while you may not get the free points so easy at the higher levels, those Fh strokes will still get get you plenty of weaker returns up to almost the highest levels. Most will call it foot work, but it's really more of an early read and move to better position. You tend to let the ball play you a bit due to a late start.
I don't know what folks expect of us older guys, since we tend to be a bit stiff due to age and an accumulation of injuries thru our years. Long flexible and fluid strokes on those who learned the game well while young, are very attractive; I agree. But the facts are that beauty does not equate superior. I imagine that you, just like me, have beaten quite a few players with more attractive strokes. Also I've had to come to grips with how my strokes built playing mostly doubles, are going to be more compact and not have that long fluid look of guys who play mostly singles. Probably don't need to pay too much attention to a 3.5 who tells you what YOU need to work on.

You are actually doing a huge disservice to him. While you may like his posts on the Oscar thread, as a coach you are ethics-bound to call it as it is.

And he clearly said he is not into doubles.

arche3
02-18-2012, 01:59 PM
I have to agree the fh and bh you flick up too much. You pull your body up and jerk on a lot of shots. Which is indicative of a lot of players who start later in life.
But its certainly competitive with a lot of club players so its just my gripe about it.

5263
02-18-2012, 02:00 PM
From your other thread video, all your serves on the ad court are FFs. So I don't think it is correct to say you won the matches - they won the matches.

Man you have been so much more reasonable lately, so what gives. Two or 3 posters have already commented about your caustic remarks here to tlm. Surely you don't see how obvious you are being here, so maybe asking you politely to ease up will be enough.

5263
02-18-2012, 02:08 PM
You are actually doing a huge disservice to him. While you may like his posts on the Oscar thread, as a coach you are ethics-bound to call it as it is.

And he clearly said he is not into doubles.

Sorry if he mentioned he was not into doubles, but I thought he mentioned having a partner. Either way, that is just part of it and I was mainly commenting that was my case.

I truly believe many of you are way too concerned about if you think a stroke is pretty. tlm hits that Fh hard and it will be tough for many 4.5 and below to handle it well. He spins some hard and hits thru many as well.
I don't like the way he throws the head of the racket on his slices. Bhs looked fine, and his serve is good for 4.0 if he makes them regularly.
You know you can't beat him don't you? Ugly strokes to you or not.

Passion4Tennis
02-18-2012, 02:24 PM
I play singles for the most part. I play doubles when I have no choice.

And BTW, most 4.5 club players stink. The good ones are those who played in school or college. The ones who learned later have so many blatant faults in their technique that they are unwatchable.

That's a ridiculous statement to make. There are a lot of good players at this level, whether or not they've played high school or college tennis. When people reach 4.5, most are capable of hitting all strokes pretty well. They're strokes may not always like "pretty", but they are effective, which is all that matters.

Torres
02-18-2012, 02:28 PM
Well lets see some video of you then, i would love to play you and see how good you really are. What level you do you play? Or do you even play league tennis? I am talking singles here don't want to hear about any doubles play.

There's really no need to get so defensive. You're never going to be improve that way. Suresh makes some valid points even if the way he puts might be less tactful than you would like. But sometimes the only way to improve is for someone to give you a really blunt reality check because from your video and subsequent posts, I'm not sure that you're really seeing where you are in terms of level.

MLB_MOB
02-18-2012, 03:01 PM
That's a ridiculous statement to make. There are a lot of good players at this level, whether or not they've played high school or college tennis. When people reach 4.5, most are capable of hitting all strokes pretty well. They're strokes may not always like "pretty", but they are effective, which is all that matters.

Its not that ridiculous, its all a matter of perspective. I mean a lot of college players would take this view point, 4.5s don't present a challenge compared to what I have seen. If suresh was a D1 bound player in his eyes a 4.5 would suck, and he would technically not be wrong

lendl1986
02-18-2012, 03:24 PM
I really like how you take your 1hbh on the rise.

Your backswing on the fh is late, and you're rushing the shot. Get that racquet back and up as soon as your recognize which side is heading to.

5263
02-18-2012, 03:31 PM
Its not that ridiculous, its all a matter of perspective. I mean a lot of college players would take this view point, 4.5s don't present a challenge compared to what I have seen. If suresh was a D1 bound player in his eyes a 4.5 would suck, and he would technically not be wrong

Sorry, but IMO, passion4tennis is much more correct on this and I've coached several D1 players, before, during and after they played at college. My first 2 children both played D1 on scholarship.
Not all 4.5s are great, but many are darned good.

tlm
02-18-2012, 03:58 PM
There's really no need to get so defensive. You're never going to be improve that way. Suresh makes some valid points even if the way he puts might be less tactful than you would like. But sometimes the only way to improve is for someone to give you a really blunt reality check because from your video and subsequent posts, I'm not sure that you're really seeing where you are in terms of level.


I understand what you are saying but this guy is a jerk, sits there and talks smack but will not even answer the simple question of what level he plays at.

I know exactly what level i am at because i play league tennis, i also know that i am not very good. But that does not stop me from enjoying the game and trying to improve.

Like i said i did not start playing tennis until i was 46 years old so i missed out on learning during my younger years when it would have been a lot easier.

Passion4Tennis
02-18-2012, 04:09 PM
Its not that ridiculous, its all a matter of perspective. I mean a lot of college players would take this view point, 4.5s don't present a challenge compared to what I have seen. If suresh was a D1 bound player in his eyes a 4.5 would suck, and he would technically not be wrong

Well, let's take it from the perspective of TT posters. I think it's safe to say that the majority of them are below 4.5(me included). So, if they witnessed two legit 4.5 guys/women playing a match, I think they would show some appreciation for that level of play.

I suppose there are some elitists on here that only appreciate D1, D2 and pro level matches, but thankfully, I'm not one of them. I've seen a number of skilled players battling it out at the local clubs and parks over the years.

tlm
02-18-2012, 04:13 PM
Sorry if he mentioned he was not into doubles, but I thought he mentioned having a partner. Either way, that is just part of it and I was mainly commenting that was my case.

I truly believe many of you are way too concerned about if you think a stroke is pretty. tlm hits that Fh hard and it will be tough for many 4.5 and below to handle it well. He spins some hard and hits thru many as well.
I don't like the way he throws the head of the racket on his slices. Bhs looked fine, and his serve is good for 4.0 if he makes them regularly.
You know you can't beat him don't you? Ugly strokes to you or not.


Thanks 5263, your right my backhand slice is really a weird shot the way i throw the head of the racket out in front. But believe it or not i can hit that goofy shot very consistently, but i am trying to learn the 2 hander now and am starting to get the hang of it but it will take some time. I know i need to get away from that slice.

As weird as my forehand looks you are right about it giving even some 4.5 level players some trouble. My opponents keep the ball away from my forehand as much as possible. I know that i am not a very good player and i still believe that i can improve but like you mentioned it is a tough game if you never played in your youth.

I think you are right about sureshs to i would love to play him in a match, then see how big his mouth would be. He can't even answer what level he plays at and of course he won't show any video of his perfect strokes.

A lot of people gave me some good advise here and i will definitely try to use it. But at least i am brave enough to show my ugly strokes and admit what level i play at, instead of hiding behind a keyboard.

tlm
02-18-2012, 04:19 PM
Well, let's take it from the perspective of TT posters. I think it's safe to say that the majority of them are below 4.5(me included). So, if they witnessed two legit 4.5 guys/women playing a match, I think they would show some appreciation for that level of play.

I suppose there are some elitists on here that only appreciate D1, D2 and pro level matches, but thankfully, I'm not one of them. I've seen a number of skilled players battling it out at my local club and at my local parks over the years.


Exactly right i would bet good money the majority of posters here are 3.5 or below. The better 4.5 players that play in the indoor league at my club are very good players.

A few years ago there was not enough 5.0 players for the league so they dropped that division so now the 4.5 has plenty of actual 5.0 players in it. Which some of them did play div. 1 in college, so for some hack like sureshs to say that 4.5 players are not any good is a joke.

Passion4Tennis
02-18-2012, 04:30 PM
tlm, I like your game. Your forehand looks similar to mine at times. Like some others have said, just keep working on your footwork. Try to incorporate a good split-step, and work on your conditioning.

tlm
02-18-2012, 04:40 PM
tlm, I like your game. Your forehand looks similar to mine at times. Like some others have said, just keep working on your footwork. Try to incorporate a good split-step, and work on your conditioning.

Thanks your right about the footwork or should i say lack of. Its funny you don't realize how bad you look until you film yourself. I had no idea that i was being that lazy with the lack of movement.

I am definitely going to make split stepping and keeping active on my feet the first priority. My backhand definitely needs work that is why i have been developing a 2 hander which is getting there but still needs some time.

I know my forehand is strange but it is by far my most effective and consistent shot, again i had no idea it looked that strange until i saw it on film. I think everyone that is trying to improve should tape themselves once in a while because you have no idea what you really look like on the court until you see it.

5263
02-18-2012, 04:52 PM
Thanks your right about the footwork or should i say lack of. Its funny you don't realize how bad you look until you film yourself. I had no idea that i was being that lazy with the lack of movement.


One simple tip to look better and it also actually helps,
is to get both hands on the racket between shots.
Right now you sort of just hold it low in your one hand,
which does not look as sharp; mainly cause it's not.
Give it a try and vid that. See if your overall look is not
much improved, along with overall racket control for prep
and takeback on both sides.

tlm
02-18-2012, 05:06 PM
One simple tip to look better and it also actually helps,
is to get both hands on the racket between shots.
Right now you sort of just hold it low in your one hand,
which does not look as sharp; mainly cause it's not.
Give it a try and vid that. See if your overall look is not
much improved, along with overall racket control for prep
and takeback on both sides.


Good advise, these videos are from at least a year ago and when i watched them a couple of weeks ago i noticed the 1 hand holding the racket instead of grabbing it with 2.

Since i am working on developing a 2 handed backhand i have started holding it with 2 hands to aid in prepping, but like any change it will take some time.

Again it is just one of the many things i have noticed from filming myself on the court, funny how much you have no idea on how bad you look until you see it yourself.

5263
02-18-2012, 05:14 PM
Good advise, these videos are from at least a year ago and when i watched them a couple of weeks ago i noticed the 1 hand holding the racket instead of grabbing it with 2.

Since i am working on developing a 2 handed backhand i have started holding it with 2 hands to aid in prepping, but like any change it will take some time.

Again it is just one of the many things i have noticed from filming myself on the court, funny how much you have no idea on how bad you look until you see it yourself.

Two hands on the stick will help your Fh prep too, but it is more subtle.
Still very important though.
We all look bad to ourselves on vid, so not as bad as you think.
Some who say it's ugly might look worse on vid, or even look
better with less results though. I like results.
Many say Nadal's us ugly too.
If we were at a match and that Fh was giving the opponents tons
of trouble, the comment would be more like, " that Fh is a little
stiff but very effective."

5263
02-18-2012, 05:17 PM
Vid some of those Fhs going to the Smart Targets and
post the vid on that thread soon.

tlm
02-18-2012, 05:30 PM
Two hands on the stick will help your Fh prep too, but it is more subtle.
Still very important though.
We all look bad to ourselves on vid, so not as bad as you think.
Some who say it's ugly might look worse on vid, or even look
better with less results though. I like results.
Many say Nadal's us ugly too.
If we were at a match and that Fh was giving the opponents tons
of trouble, the comment would be more like, " that Fh is a little
stiff but very effective."



Good points like you say results are what counts not style. The vids i showed playing some points against my friend i know i don't look very good but he is definitely a lot better player than i am. He beats me pretty easily but once in a while i get a set off him and even beat him once in a great while, but he is at least a half level above me.

When playing a lesser player i have more time and i do drive through the forehand more and flatten out my shots. But this guy is usually dictating the points and i am rushed so i am just trying to hang in the points.

Thats the thing i notice most playing different level players is the importance of having time. When i play people at my level with most of them i am not rushed very often and i have time to set up a point and play more aggressive. But when i play the better guys it seems like i am always rushed and that i rarely take time away from them.

Cheetah
02-18-2012, 07:41 PM
noone has mentioned this yet but you should keep both hands on the racquet while you move around the court. having both arms dangling down like that is not good for balance, slows you down and makes good prep more difficult.

edit: sorry. looks like someone has already mentioned this

MLB_MOB
02-18-2012, 09:07 PM
Sorry, but IMO, passion4tennis is much more correct on this and I've coached several D1 players, before, during and after they played at college. My first 2 children both played D1 on scholarship.
Not all 4.5s are great, but many are darned good.

a 4.5 isnt even a college level player. So I mean to me I would not be impressed. And I know to all this is not a fair view, however I am saying Suresh might not be wrong. Skill is relative to the person who is stating an opinion. I mean in Federer's opinion someone who has consistently been 500 might suck, but to most they would be very good. You can't tell someone they are wrong or right based on their opinion. Its all what they have experienced

hyperwarrior
02-18-2012, 09:56 PM
A short video of me and my hitting partner. I am in the far court with the visor on, my friend is in the near court.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF2rxFjBmLk&feature=channel

How long you've been playing?

Passion4Tennis
02-18-2012, 10:40 PM
a 4.5 isnt even a college level player. So I mean to me I would not be impressed. And I know to all this is not a fair view, however I am saying Suresh might not be wrong. Skill is relative to the person who is stating an opinion. I mean in Federer's opinion someone who has consistently been 500 might suck, but to most they would be very good. You can't tell someone they are wrong or right based on their opinion. Its all what they have experienced

Come again? How about DIII and community colleges, or don't they count? You don't think there are plenty of 4.5s that play on them?
I'm pretty certain that Sureshs is a middle-aged player, and he claims his game isn't all that good. I don't think he's a 4.5, so to him most people of that caliber should look good. And you do realize that there are former DI-DIII players that currently play at 4.5 level. Do they suck?

tlm
02-19-2012, 03:18 AM
How long you've been playing?

At the time of that video about 8 years.

tlm
02-19-2012, 03:19 AM
Come again? How about DIII and community colleges, or don't they count? You don't think there are plenty of 4.5s that play on them?
I'm pretty certain that Sureshs is a middle-aged player, and he claims his game isn't all that good. I don't think he's a 4.5, so to him most people of that caliber should look good. And you do realize that there are former DI-DIII players that currently play at 4.5 level. Do they suck?



I know of some guys that played div.1 college tennis that are now playing 4.5 team tennis.

sureshs
02-19-2012, 07:26 AM
I know of some guys that played div.1 college tennis that are now playing 4.5 team tennis.

That is because they have no choice, or they are injured and so on.

sureshs
02-19-2012, 07:31 AM
Man you have been so much more reasonable lately, so what gives. Two or 3 posters have already commented about your caustic remarks here to tlm. Surely you don't see how obvious you are being here, so maybe asking you politely to ease up will be enough.

Yeah I was unfair to TLM and must apologize for it. It was due to the Oscar thread. I had imagined him to a high level player from his comments. What also got to me was his forehand. I am certain he is one of those late adult players who should have started off with the classical fundamentals like weight transfer and follow through towards target, and then added spin gradually. I think he decided to be a Nadal from the beginning and now he is falling backwards in open stance and muscling the ball. A completely wrong read on Oscar's teachings. That is why I got very upset. But not any more :-)

sureshs
02-19-2012, 07:33 AM
There's really no need to get so defensive. You're never going to be improve that way. Suresh makes some valid points even if the way he puts might be less tactful than you would like. But sometimes the only way to improve is for someone to give you a really blunt reality check because from your video and subsequent posts, I'm not sure that you're really seeing where you are in terms of level.

Yeah I was quite rude and apologize for it.

Power Player
02-19-2012, 08:12 AM
Tlm,dont just think splitstepping and active feet will fix it. You need to learn the patterns too.

So for an easy forehand coming to you,there is no reason to be leaning back.

Split step,then step back with your right foot and get turned to the side. Then you will be moving forward into the ball and loading off your back foot, which is what u want.

MLB_MOB
02-19-2012, 08:49 AM
That is because they have no choice, or they are injured and so on.

Exactly! Injuries, Age, etc. deteriorate skill. If TLM is suggesting that d1 players are a 4.5 level you need a serious reality check. And to answer the other poster, most d3 colleges are above a 4.5 level, quite a few d3 schools are just as good as d2 schools and some d1 schools. And I dont really count community college, not to be a dick

T1000
02-19-2012, 09:09 AM
Come again? How about DIII and community colleges, or don't they count? You don't think there are plenty of 4.5s that play on them?
I'm pretty certain that Sureshs is a middle-aged player, and he claims his game isn't all that good. I don't think he's a 4.5, so to him most people of that caliber should look good. And you do realize that there are former DI-DIII players that currently play at 4.5 level. Do they suck?

They aren't. we're talking about college level that actually matters, DI. A 4.5 wouldn't make it at any school in my conference and it isn't even a strong one. There are few real DI tennis programs that have 4.5s on them. And the DII-DIII schools that compete for titles, they don't have 4.5s either. Former players play at that level because of age, injuries, or they stopped playing.

tlm
02-19-2012, 09:17 AM
Tlm,dont just think splitstepping and active feet will fix it. You need to learn the patterns too.

So for an easy forehand coming to you,there is no reason to be leaning back.

Split step,then step back with your right foot and get turned to the side. Then you will be moving forward into the ball and loading off your back foot, which is what u want.

Ya your right pp but when i am playing matches and i get to step into the court on shorter shots i do drive through the ball much more than i do when rallying from the back court.

Here are a couple of forehands that i step into a little more.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqCpJxfVWro&context=C333e0f6ADOEgsToPDskKA5Yc5xQoKwXms_YkLfNaN

tlm
02-19-2012, 09:32 AM
Yeah I was unfair to TLM and must apologize for it. It was due to the Oscar thread. I had imagined him to a high level player from his comments. What also got to me was his forehand. I am certain he is one of those late adult players who should have started off with the classical fundamentals like weight transfer and follow through towards target, and then added spin gradually. I think he decided to be a Nadal from the beginning and now he is falling backwards in open stance and muscling the ball. A completely wrong read on Oscar's teachings. That is why I got very upset. But not any more :-)


Okay here are some forehands that i step into, which is what i do when i get the short ball. But for rallying i hit a top spin looper with a lot of spin which is very consistent, then when i get the miss hit or short ball i then step in and drive the ball. Did you watch the videos i showed of us playing a few points? If you did pay attention to the last clip were it shows my partner playing a point against me. Did you notice how some of those shots pushed him back and made him swing up high out of his comfort zone?

Those are my average rally balls that i use and i vary the depth and amount of spin on them to throw the opponent off and either get the sitter or UE, which if you notice he ended up going for a flat hard shot and hit it into the net. The game is not always about driving through the ball for the most power you can hit with.

Especially when you have limited abilities like i have, i would love to crush more winners end points quickly but i am not good enough to win playing like that. So i am using what works best for me now with what i have, i know it is not pretty or very conventional but it works pretty well for me right now. If you played against me i believe that you would find out really quickly that those looping top spin shots are tougher than you think to play, just ask any of my opponents.

The way i am hitting my average rally top spin shots by pulling back and using a lot WW motion is what makes that shot so consistent, If i step into those shots to much i will hit to many long and give away to many points. So i do what works but believe me i do step in and hit a lot flatter trajectory when i get the chance. But the guy i am hitting with in those videos is better than i am and i am usually just trying to stay in the point, he is the one dictating. But when i play lesser players i am hitting through the ball much more because i have the time and i am dictating.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqCpJxfVWro&context=C333e0f6ADOEgsToPDskKA5Yc5xQoKwXms_YkLfNaN

Power Player
02-19-2012, 09:39 AM
Ya your right pp but when i am playing matches and i get to step into the court on shorter shots i do drive through the ball much more than i do when rallying from the back court.

Here are a couple of forehands that i step into a little more.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqCpJxfVWro&context=C333e0f6ADOEgsToPDskKA5Yc5xQoKwXms_YkLfNaN

Well what u want to is to get weight into the court on every shot and not just putaways. If not your loopy balls will get attacked by better players. Its going to take some footwork repair as yours is not really there yet.

I am working on mine and am fixing a few things. All i can say is that it will change your strokes for the better. If you can get some footwork lessons and make sure it is a coach who teaches open stance, you will be amazed at how much less effort it takes for you to hit with pace. It will also progress you from hitting and falling back which is a footwork issue and not a good one. You are just playing guys who are not good enough to deal with those balls, but when you fix it you will crush those players and be ready to climb a level.

Squall Leonheart
02-19-2012, 09:43 AM
At the time of that video about 8 years.

With all due respect, why did you post a video that is 8 years old? Your game has most likely changed in that time, so some of the advice might not be applicable anymore, while other issues may have arisen in the meantime.

Passion4Tennis
02-19-2012, 09:51 AM
They aren't. we're talking about college level that actually matters, DI. A 4.5 wouldn't make it at any school in my conference and it isn't even a strong one. There are few real DI tennis programs that have 4.5s on them. And the DII-DIII schools that compete for titles, they don't have 4.5s either. Former players play at that level because of age, injuries, or they stopped playing.


Oh ok. So, DI tennis is the only one that matters. Thanks for clearing that up. So, only DII, DIII teams that compete for titles are relevant. All of the other kids playing on DII and DIII teams across the country that happen to be 4.5s are slobs, so they don't count. That isn't college level, even though they play for their team. Wow, am I confused.

And the TT ELITIST train rolls on. Damn, I didn't realize how many snobs were on this site.

tlm
02-19-2012, 10:03 AM
With all due respect, why did you post a video that is 8 years old? Your game has most likely changed in that time, so some of the advice might not be applicable anymore, while other issues may have arisen in the meantime.

The question that was asked was how long have i been playing tennis. My response was that at the time of those videos it was 8 years, the videos were from last year.

tlm
02-19-2012, 10:09 AM
Well what u want to is to get weight into the court on every shot and not just putaways. If not your loopy balls will get attacked by better players. Its going to take some footwork repair as yours is not really there yet.

I am working on mine and am fixing a few things. All i can say is that it will change your strokes for the better. If you can get some footwork lessons and make sure it is a coach who teaches open stance, you will be amazed at how much less effort it takes for you to hit with pace. It will also progress you from hitting and falling back which is a footwork issue and not a good one. You are just playing guys who are not good enough to deal with those balls, but when you fix it you will crush those players and be ready to climb a level.


Thanks PP i am sure you are right i have been watching the lock and roll tennis instruction and trying to use his methods which seem really good.

Like i mentioned before everyone should film themselves at least once a year because it is amazing how many things that you can be doing wrong and not even know it.

I am fairly quick but i had no idea that my footwork was that lazy and sloppy, which is making it much harder on myself. So that is my # 1 priority concentrate on the foot work.

tlm
02-19-2012, 10:38 AM
Exactly! Injuries, Age, etc. deteriorate skill. If TLM is suggesting that d1 players are a 4.5 level you need a serious reality check. And to answer the other poster, most d3 colleges are above a 4.5 level, quite a few d3 schools are just as good as d2 schools and some d1 schools. And I dont really count community college, not to be a dick

I think a lot of it depends on what area you live in. The club i played at had to drop the 5.0 division because there were not enough players to fill it. So now many of those players are playing in the 4.5 division, and believe me there are some of these guys that did play division 1 tennis in college.

MLB_MOB
02-19-2012, 10:49 AM
Oh ok. So, DI tennis is the only one that matters. Thanks for clearing that up. So, only DII, DIII teams that compete for titles are relevant. All of the other kids playing on DII and DIII teams across the country that happen to be 4.5s are slobs, so they don't count. That isn't college level, even though they play for their team. Wow, am I confused.

And the TT ELITIST train rolls on. Damn, I didn't realize how many snobs were on this site.

I play d3 tennis for a team that is ranked almost every year and I will say that we make fun of the other teams in our conference who aren't good. So he is right. No offense but just because you are not at a certain level does not make us elitists it just makes us experienced.

And as for the main topic of this thread, people who are good get irritated because they offer good advice and nobody listens because it is not what they want to hear.

sureshs
02-19-2012, 11:17 AM
Okay here are some forehands that i step into, which is what i do when i get the short ball. But for rallying i hit a top spin looper with a lot of spin which is very consistent, then when i get the miss hit or short ball i then step in and drive the ball. Did you watch the videos i showed of us playing a few points? If you did pay attention to the last clip were it shows my partner playing a point against me. Did you notice how some of those shots pushed him back and made him swing up high out of his comfort zone?

Those are my average rally balls that i use and i vary the depth and amount of spin on them to throw the opponent off and either get the sitter or UE, which if you notice he ended up going for a flat hard shot and hit it into the net. The game is not always about driving through the ball for the most power you can hit with.

Especially when you have limited abilities like i have, i would love to crush more winners end points quickly but i am not good enough to win playing like that. So i am using what works best for me now with what i have, i know it is not pretty or very conventional but it works pretty well for me right now. If you played against me i believe that you would find out really quickly that those looping top spin shots are tougher than you think to play, just ask any of my opponents.

The way i am hitting my average rally top spin shots by pulling back and using a lot WW motion is what makes that shot so consistent, If i step into those shots to much i will hit to many long and give away to many points. So i do what works but believe me i do step in and hit a lot flatter trajectory when i get the chance. But the guy i am hitting with in those videos is better than i am and i am usually just trying to stay in the point, he is the one dictating. But when i play lesser players i am hitting through the ball much more because i have the time and i am dictating.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqCpJxfVWro&context=C333e0f6ADOEgsToPDskKA5Yc5xQoKwXms_YkLfNaN

Noticed your hitting through the forehand and also over your backhand. Almost seems like a different person in the video now. Maybe you have a twin?

But your FFing is very serious. You are doing it from the deuce court too. The problem is the first big step you take with your left foot which puts it smack on the service line long before you hit the ball.

tlm
02-19-2012, 11:41 AM
Noticed your hitting through the forehand and also over your backhand. Almost seems like a different person in the video now. Maybe you have a twin?

But your FFing is very serious. You are doing it from the deuce court too. The problem is the first big step you take with your left foot which puts it smack on the service line long before you hit the ball.

No not a twin just some other videos, but these balls were easy with plenty of time to set up and step into. Which believe it or not i do step into the ball at times, but just not all the time.

I used to use the 1 handed top spin backhand more but could never get consistent enough with it so that is why i slice most of the time now, but i am now developing the 2 hander which is what i am going to use most of the time once it is ready.

rkelley
02-19-2012, 01:21 PM
Okay here are some forehands that i step into, which is what i do when i get the short ball. But for rallying i hit a top spin looper with a lot of spin which is very consistent, then when i get the miss hit or short ball i then step in and drive the ball. Did you watch the videos i showed of us playing a few points? If you did pay attention to the last clip were it shows my partner playing a point against me. Did you notice how some of those shots pushed him back and made him swing up high out of his comfort zone?

Those are my average rally balls that i use and i vary the depth and amount of spin on them to throw the opponent off and either get the sitter or UE, which if you notice he ended up going for a flat hard shot and hit it into the net. The game is not always about driving through the ball for the most power you can hit with.

Especially when you have limited abilities like i have, i would love to crush more winners end points quickly but i am not good enough to win playing like that. So i am using what works best for me now with what i have, i know it is not pretty or very conventional but it works pretty well for me right now. If you played against me i believe that you would find out really quickly that those looping top spin shots are tougher than you think to play, just ask any of my opponents.

The way i am hitting my average rally top spin shots by pulling back and using a lot WW motion is what makes that shot so consistent, If i step into those shots to much i will hit to many long and give away to many points. So i do what works but believe me i do step in and hit a lot flatter trajectory when i get the chance. But the guy i am hitting with in those videos is better than i am and i am usually just trying to stay in the point, he is the one dictating. But when i play lesser players i am hitting through the ball much more because i have the time and i am dictating.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqCpJxfVWro&context=C333e0f6ADOEgsToPDskKA5Yc5xQoKwXms_YkLfNaN

That first forehand really looks pretty good. There's weight transfer, some kinetic chain happening, you maintain the raquet face plain well before and after contact, and nice follow through. There are things that you could improve, but seriously it's not bad at all. You can hit that same forehand with a bit less effort and it would be a great rally shot for you.

The second one would be better if you let your arm decelerate the racquet during the follow through like you did on the first one.

The backhand also isn't too bad. You muscle the racquet to start it out and you could use more kinetic chain and the power would be easier, but still not bad.

On both of those strokes just loosen up a bit, let you hips and shoulders start the swing (aka the kinetic chain), and you'll be amazed at how much easy power is available without having to strain or work hard. That power translates into racquet head speed, that can be used for whatever combination of pace and spin you want.

On the serve, one thought: You're bending your legs right when you toss. Toss first, then bend your legs. You're also stepping forward with your forward foot a bit. Make sure you're far enough behind the baseline that you don't foot fault. Even better, try not to move the foot.

tlm
02-19-2012, 02:24 PM
That first forehand really looks pretty good. There's weight transfer, some kinetic chain happening, you maintain the raquet face plain well before and after contact, and nice follow through. There are things that you could improve, but seriously it's not bad at all. You can hit that same forehand with a bit less effort and it would be a great rally shot for you.

The second one would be better if you let your arm decelerate the racquet during the follow through like you did on the first one.

The backhand also isn't too bad. You muscle the racquet to start it out and you could use more kinetic chain and the power would be easier, but still not bad.

On both of those strokes just loosen up a bit, let you hips and shoulders start the swing (aka the kinetic chain), and you'll be amazed at how much easy power is available without having to strain or work hard. That power translates into racquet head speed, that can be used for whatever combination of pace and spin you want.

On the serve, one thought: You're bending your legs right when you toss. Toss first, then bend your legs. You're also stepping forward with your forward foot a bit. Make sure you're far enough behind the baseline that you don't foot fault. Even better, try not to move the foot.



Thanks for the advise.

Cheetah
02-19-2012, 03:47 PM
Ya your right pp but when i am playing matches and i get to step into the court on shorter shots i do drive through the ball much more than i do when rallying from the back court.

Here are a couple of forehands that i step into a little more.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqCpJxfVWro&context=C333e0f6ADOEgsToPDskKA5Yc5xQoKwXms_YkLfNaN

you look totally different in this video.
That first forehand looked pretty nice. You nailed the contact point and nice swing path. Try to work on your left hand a little. Point it out parallel to the baseline. Good going. keep it up.

JW10S
02-19-2012, 05:15 PM
Ya your right pp but when i am playing matches and i get to step into the court on shorter shots i do drive through the ball much more than i do when rallying from the back court.

Here are a couple of forehands that i step into a little more.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqCpJxfVWro&context=C333e0f6ADOEgsToPDskKA5Yc5xQoKwXms_YkLfNaN
I can see by your strokes why you have to wear that elbow band. Plus you footfault on all your serves.

sureshs
02-19-2012, 05:15 PM
you look totally different in this video.


It is his twin brother. Both post with the same account.

tlm
02-19-2012, 05:52 PM
I can see by your strokes why you have to wear that elbow band. Plus you footfault on all your serves.


Thanks for the brilliant insight, that was a year ago and i don't wear the elbow band anymore that was from some poly string. But i still use the same stroke and usually play at least 5 days a week all year long with that same swing and no elbow problems.

tlm
02-19-2012, 06:00 PM
you look totally different in this video.
That first forehand looked pretty nice. You nailed the contact point and nice swing path. Try to work on your left hand a little. Point it out parallel to the baseline. Good going. keep it up.


Well it just shows that you can't judge to much by a few short videos. Plus in these forehands the balls were hit right to me and i had plenty of time to set up, a little different from when i was rallying and playing some points with my friend who is definitely better than i am.

When i have time and especially when i get into the court on short balls is when i step into the shots more like in the last videos i showed. But unfortunately my foot work and anticipation is not that good when being moved around so i use the looping top spin rally ball more until i get the time to attack.

tlm
02-19-2012, 06:03 PM
It is his twin brother. Both post with the same account.

Just proves you can't be to rushed to judgement from just a couple of short clips. Different days different opponents and different results.

spillai
02-19-2012, 06:24 PM
You both play very well

5263
02-19-2012, 07:24 PM
Thanks for the brilliant insight, that was a year ago and i don't wear the elbow band anymore that was from some poly string. But i still use the same stroke and usually play at least 5 days a week all year long with that same swing and no elbow problems.

That guy makes about $150 an hr or so. He probably was knowing that it was a harsh string and that you had changed to have no trouble now. Probably only make about $110 an hr if he couldn't spot those foot faults.

arche3
02-19-2012, 07:34 PM
even the new video your 2 fhs look off balance and you are arming the ball. The bh you still look jerky.
On the first fh you swing very very hard and your body and arm rotate as one unit and abruptly decelerate together. On the 2nd fh you end up slapping at the ball and your sudden deceleration is still evident. 2nd fh you finish with the racket using a wiper action but the racket is in front of you at the end of the stroke. I think it would he better to swing less forcefully and allow your racket continue the follow through for a more gradual deceleration. This will allow for a faster swing and more speed at contact.
I am not a coach but is see a lot of issues with the strokes that could be easily changed for some improvement. Maybe some coaches will give you some real instruction. Im just commenting on how it looks to me. I have no idea if my suggestions are valid.

tlm
02-19-2012, 07:35 PM
That guy makes about $150 an hr or so. He probably was knowing that it was a harsh string and that you had changed to have no trouble now. Probably only make about $110 an hr if he couldn't spot those foot faults.



Great points 5263, this guy is the tennis guru.

tlm
02-19-2012, 07:36 PM
You both play very well


Thanks but i think that playing very well would only apply to my partner.

tlm
02-19-2012, 07:43 PM
even the new video your 2 fhs look off balance and you are arming the ball. The bh you still look jerky.
On the first fh you swing very very hard and your body and arm rotate as one unit and aruptly decelerate together. On the 2nd fh you end up slapping at the ball and your sidden deceleration is still evident. I t you finish with the racket using a wiper action but the racket is in front of you at the end of the stroke. I think it would he better to swing less forcefully and allow your racket continue the follow through for a more gradual deceleration. This will allow for a faster swing and more speed at contact.
I am not a coach but is see a lot of issues with the strokes that coyld be easily changed for some improvement. Maybe some coaches will give you some real instruction. Im just commenting on how it looks to me. I have no idea if my suggestions are valid.


Ya i was probably trying to swing to hard for the camera, i don't see the off balance part though. But i do know that i arm the ball to much and the back hands are to jerky.

MrFonzi
02-20-2012, 11:36 PM
Ya i was probably trying to swing to hard for the camera, i don't see the off balance part though. But i do know that i arm the ball to much and the back hands are to jerky.

Of course not, you're just following the advice given at 0:55 below. Just the "tennis of the future" right?......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYYc-bn5vz4&feature=plcp&context=C34e3344UDOEgsToPDskKCmA82RN3U_qjqtIzo4ibJ

tlm
02-21-2012, 03:24 AM
Of course not, you're just following the advice given at 0:55 below. Just the "tennis of the future" right?......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYYc-bn5vz4&feature=plcp&context=C34e3344UDOEgsToPDskKCmA82RN3U_qjqtIzo4ibJ


No i was already hitting my forehand this way before i saw the instruction you listed. In those last videos i showed can you tell me were i am off balance on those forehand strokes.

MrFonzi
02-21-2012, 03:31 AM
No i was already hitting my forehand this way before i saw the instruction you listed. In those last videos i showed can you tell me were i am off balance on those forehand strokes.

I'm not sure which video you are referring to but I don't see a solid forehand loading phase in any of your shots in any of your videos. I'm a super tough critic though. Prove me wrong and string together a FH rally with a nice early prep, good knee bend and explosive weight transfer through the ball and ill give you my tick of approval.

tlm
02-21-2012, 03:37 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqCpJxfVWro&context=C333e0f6ADOEgsToPDskKA5Yc5xQoKwXms_YkLfNaN



I was referring to these.

johndagolfer
02-21-2012, 05:09 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqCpJxfVWro&context=C333e0f6ADOEgsToPDskKA5Yc5xQoKwXms_YkLfNaN



I was referring to these.

In my opinion you do look a tad off balance on these shots. Well not really off-balance, but falling backward a slight bit. You can see this when after you hit your trailing foot is still supporting a significant amount of weight.

My humble suggestion is to use more lower body in your shots, you seem to be arming the ball a little too much.

tlm
02-21-2012, 11:45 AM
In my opinion you do look a tad off balance on these shots. Well not really off-balance, but falling backward a slight bit. You can see this when after you hit your trailing foot is still supporting a significant amount of weight.

My humble suggestion is to use more lower body in your shots, you seem to be arming the ball a little too much.


I do have a tendency to pull back but i don't really see it here and i don't see being off balance. But i definitely do see the arming the ball to much, like you say i need to use the lower body more.

Cheetah
02-21-2012, 06:19 PM
I do have a tendency to pull back but i don't really see it here and i don't see being off balance. But i definitely do see the arming the ball to much, like you say i need to use the lower body more.

Yes. off balance. especially the backhands. it looks like you almost are going to fall over after you swing a couple of times.

also on the 2nd forehand look at your left foot. after contact that foot is still pointing to the right because you've locked it into postition. so instead of 'going w/ the flow' you are jamming up the momentum. and you will subject to injury if you keep doing this. you have to lift that foot off the ground or be on your toes like the in the first swing.

tlm
02-22-2012, 06:15 AM
Yes. off balance. especially the backhands. it looks like you almost are going to fall over after you swing a couple of times.

also on the 2nd forehand look at your left foot. after contact that foot is still pointing to the right because you've locked it into postition. so instead of 'going w/ the flow' you are jamming up the momentum. and you will subject to injury if you keep doing this. you have to lift that foot off the ground or be on your toes like the in the first swing.


Okay i will try and go with the flow as you say, i see what you mean by jamming up the momentum.

Limpinhitter
02-22-2012, 07:05 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqCpJxfVWro&context=C333e0f6ADOEgsToPDskKA5Yc5xQoKwXms_YkLfNaN



I was referring to these.

Your forenhand and topspin backhand are look completely homegrown but servicable. Your backhand slice and serve are painful to look at. I could give you my 2 cents, but, I don't foresee it doing any good.

tlm
02-22-2012, 07:31 AM
Your forenhand and topspin backhand are look completely homegrown but servicable. Your backhand slice and serve are painful to look at. I could give you my 2 cents, but, I don't foresee it doing any good.



Go ahead limpin i pretty much agree with your assessment so far. I especially agree with your comment about the backhand, it sucks and i know it. I am trying to learn the 2 hander right now but it is going to take a while.

So in the meantime i use my goofy slice that believe it or not is really consistent and depending on the opponent can actually be effective at times. But it is my definite weakness against better players and is not good against net rushers.

Here is another clip limpin i am sure this one you could really critique. As weird as my forehand looks with the leaning back and pulling the left leg up that really draws a lot of criticism here, i do maintain a 30 shot cross court rally.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pBIcggKa6Wk

5263
02-22-2012, 02:40 PM
tlm,
how about trying to let the ball come a bit closer on those Fhs. I'm thinking you maybe taking some of them just a bit too far out front, which contributes to slightly off balance and over rotation on follow thru.
If you wait just a bit and let the ball get slightly closer, I think you can improve your balance and have a cleaner follow thru.
let me know what you think, thanks

tlm
02-22-2012, 03:45 PM
tlm,
how about trying to let the ball come a bit closer on those Fhs. I'm thinking you maybe taking some of them just a bit too far out front, which contributes to slightly off balance and over rotation on follow thru.
If you wait just a bit and let the ball get slightly closer, I think you can improve your balance and have a cleaner follow thru.
let me know what you think, thanks


Ya your probably right i can see that some of those shots are a little to far out in front. I believe that some of the problem was i was being lazy and not getting into good position. I noticed that on a couple of the shorter balls i made a better follow through.

Limpinhitter
02-22-2012, 04:21 PM
Go ahead limpin i pretty much agree with your assessment so far. I especially agree with your comment about the backhand, it sucks and i know it. I am trying to learn the 2 hander right now but it is going to take a while.

So in the meantime i use my goofy slice that believe it or not is really consistent and depending on the opponent can actually be effective at times. But it is my definite weakness against better players and is not good against net rushers.

Here is another clip limpin i am sure this one you could really critique. As weird as my forehand looks with the leaning back and pulling the left leg up that really draws a lot of criticism here, i do maintain a 30 shot cross court rally.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pBIcggKa6Wk

OK! But, rather than trying to rebuild your strokes from the ground up, I'm just going to make an observation that I think will help you improve on what you have. IMO, the single best advice I can give you is that you should relax your arm, wrist and grip and to employ more upper body rotation on ALL of your shots. As it is, your arm wrist and grip are much too tense, and you are swinging too much - and too hard - with your arm, and not enough with upper body rotation - back and forth. You cannot properly execute a modern stroke with that much tension, especially your grip. By swinging with UBR I mean that through your entire backswing and forward swing, your hand does not move much from right in front of your sternum. On both forehand and backhand, your opponent should be able to see your shoulder blades on your backswing. One way to accomplish that is to keep both hands on the racquet until you begin your forward swing. Also, on both topspin and slice backhands, you should straighten your elbow before you begin your forward swing. Don't straighten your elbow as part of your forward swing.

As for your serve, you need to work on your throwing motion, and - you guessed it - you need to employ more UBR. I would recommend practicing by throwing balls into the service box with long slow motions. Then try to replicate that feeling when you practice your serve.

Hope that helps.

tlm
02-22-2012, 04:47 PM
OK! But, rather than trying to rebuild your strokes from the ground up, I'm just going to make an observation that I think will help you improve on what you have. IMO, the single best advice I can give you is that you should relax your arm, wrist and grip and to employ more upper body rotation on ALL of your shots. As it is, your arm wrist and grip are much too tense, and you are swinging too much - and too hard - with your arm, and not enough with upper body rotation - back and forth. You cannot properly execute a modern stroke with that much tension, especially your grip. By swinging with UBR I mean that through your entire backswing and forward swing, your hand does not move much from right in front of your sternum. On both forehand and backhand, your opponent should be able to see your shoulder blades on your backswing. One way to accomplish that is to keep both hands on the racquet until you begin your forward swing. Also, on both topspin and slice backhands, you should straighten your elbow before you begin your forward swing. Don't straighten your elbow as part of your forward swing.

As for your serve, you need to work on your throwing motion, and - you guessed it - you need to employ more UBR. I would recommend practicing by throwing balls into the service box with long slow motions. Then try to replicate that feeling when you practice your serve.

Hope that helps.


Well i must admit limpin that is some pretty good advise. This video was from last summer and i have been working on putting 2 hands on the racket.

I agree also with your suggestion about loosening up the grip and swinging with more ubr instead of so much arm. That is the good thing about taking some video there are many things that you are doing incorrectly but have no idea until you see it on video.

thanks for the tips

Cheetah
02-22-2012, 05:01 PM
nvm.
+10 char

JW10S
02-22-2012, 05:55 PM
Thanks for the brilliant insight, that was a year ago and i don't wear the elbow band anymore that was from some poly string. But i still use the same stroke and usually play at least 5 days a week all year long with that same swing and no elbow problems.LOL. Oh please...a player with good technique can use 'some poly string' without issues. Very many do.

JW10S
02-22-2012, 05:56 PM
That guy makes about $150 an hr or so. He probably was knowing that it was a harsh string and that you had changed to have no trouble now. Probably only make about $110 an hr if he couldn't spot those foot faults.Someone's jealous...

tlm
02-22-2012, 06:41 PM
LOL. Oh please...a player with good technique can use 'some poly string' without issues. Very many do.


I am sure they can but some polys and some rackets don't match up well. And ya i don't have good technique i know, but i have been using the same swing for years and i have no elbow problems.

onehandbh
02-23-2012, 09:57 AM
tlm,

it appears that your swing is arm/hand-focused. I've seen many tennis players
who started playing later in life have swings with more foucs on the hand
and lower arms and as a result they "arm" their strokes more. Their strokes
aren't generated from the ground up, which is one of the keys to efficient
power/stroke.

Do you think this could have been a result of the MTM instruction you've
been following, which emphasizes a hand-based focus during the stroke?


You appear to be in good shape and have decent coordination, so adding more
body integration shouldn't be super difficult.

tlm
02-23-2012, 10:39 AM
tlm,

it appears that your swing is arm/hand-focused. I've seen many tennis players
who started playing later in life have swings with more foucs on the hand
and lower arms and as a result they "arm" their strokes more. Their strokes
aren't generated from the ground up, which is one of the keys to efficient
power/stroke.

Do you think this could have been a result of the MTM instruction you've
been following, which emphasizes a hand-based focus during the stroke?


You appear to be in good shape and have decent coordination, so adding more
body integration shouldn't be super difficult.



Your right i need to quit using so much arm and use more of the lower body. I have lifted weights for years and am pretty strong, but i think that because of my arm strength i get carried away with it and do not concentrate on using the the whole body.

I don't think the mtm is the reason for to much arming the ball. When i started i took some conventional lessons without much success, i then bought the Oscar Wegner instructional video series. Which helped me very quickly i learned how to hit top spin and could finally swing away and keep the ball in the court.

After developing my top spin it became a weapon which enabled me to attack with a lot of safety built in. Maybe between learning the top spin and having a tendency to use to much arm strength together is the reason i hit the way i do.

Like i already mentioned i do step into the ball when i have time and get into the right position, although i guess even then i am still using to much arm. But what i have noticed the most with my videos is my lazy footwork and bad positioning, which i think makes me take the ball in the wrong location and then leads to arming the ball.

You make some good points thanks for the advise i will be working on using less arm and more legs and hips.

Cheetah
02-23-2012, 11:00 AM
You've got to stop that arming stuff. Make it a priority. Trust me. when you figure out how to swing w/ your body you will be in for a pleasant surprise. Forget about getting the ball in w/ your arm city topspin for a week. spend a good week on retooling that swing to use more body. just try this: Lay the racquet back facing down and lock it into place. don't worry about being loose for now. lock your arm / wrist etc and dont move it at all with respect to your body. drop the ball with your left hand. swing your body around to hit the ball. keep arm and shoulder and racquet and wrist locked in that position. locked like a foosball thingy or pinball machine flipper. like your arm is cemented in that position. watch how hard the ball flies. then work on getting that kind of movement with loose arm/body so the body whips the arm around. you will see that you can hit harder this way and you can use the arm for control only and not power.

tlm
02-23-2012, 11:13 AM
You've got to stop that arming stuff. Make it a priority. Trust me. when you figure out how to swing w/ your body you will be in for a pleasant surprise. Forget about getting the ball in w/ your arm city topspin for a week. spend a good week on retooling that swing to use more body. just try this: Lay the racquet back facing down and lock it into place. don't worry about being loose for now. lock your arm / wrist etc and dont move it at all with respect to your body. drop the ball with your left hand. swing your body around to hit the ball. keep arm and shoulder and racquet and wrist locked in that position. locked like a foosball thingy or pinball machine flipper. like your arm is cemented in that position. watch how hard the ball flies. then work on getting that kind of movement with loose arm/body so the body whips the arm around. you will see that you can hit harder this way and you can use the arm for control only and not power.


Okay cheetah, i will try this but you know it is going to be tough to quit using arm city top spin. lol

Cheetah
02-23-2012, 11:24 AM
yes i know. been there done that.

rkelley
02-23-2012, 12:33 PM
Cheetah's totally correct about using the body for power and the arms for control.

Look at Federer. The guy has arms like twigs, but hits harder than just about anyone.

onehandbh
02-23-2012, 01:39 PM
Your right i need to quit using so much arm and use more of the lower body.

I don't think the mtm is the reason for to much arming the ball. When i started i took some conventional lessons without much success, i then bought the Oscar Wegner instructional video series. Which helped me very quickly i learned how to hit top spin and could finally swing away and keep the ball in the court.


I think the MTM emphasis of focusing on the hands is good for developing
hand-eye-racquet coordination for people who haven't played baseball or
some other ball type sport, but soon after, it's a good idea to focus on
the rest of the body to develop a smooth kinetic chain.

Whenever I'm struggling more it usually b/c I'm arming it too much.

5263
02-24-2012, 05:31 AM
I think the MTM emphasis of focusing on the hands is good for developing
hand-eye-racquet coordination for people who haven't played baseball or
some other ball type sport, but soon after, it's a good idea to focus on
the rest of the body to develop a smooth kinetic chain.

Whenever I'm struggling more it usually b/c I'm arming it too much.

the MTM focus on the hands is about feel and control.
The power would come from the leg and body thru the chain,
just like you should expect. That is never neglected in proper
MTM training.

tlm
02-24-2012, 06:14 AM
I think the MTM emphasis of focusing on the hands is good for developing
hand-eye-racquet coordination for people who haven't played baseball or
some other ball type sport, but soon after, it's a good idea to focus on
the rest of the body to develop a smooth kinetic chain.

Whenever I'm struggling more it usually b/c I'm arming it too much.


I will try to incorporate more lower body into the ball. I have a lot of things to work on, this will not be easy making all these changes.

5263
02-24-2012, 06:48 AM
I will try to incorporate more lower body into the ball. I have a lot of things to work on, this will not be easy making all these changes.

Funny,
I was just on the ph discussing this with my youngest. Before he started
doing drills at a local Academy, he used his legs well and got super, biting
TS on most of his shots. When he started with the academy, it was helping
to dominate most rallys with the other Academy students from day 1.

After working with them only a short time, he started hitting deeper, flatter,
and using his legs less, as these are the shots he saw out of their "better players"
training there. My kid had gone from winning 80% of his rallys to more like 45-
50% with his new style; often losing or winning based on who hit long first.
I got him back on the Smart Target system for a practice by warming him up
and focusing on that before practice. He went out there and had the best
day ever and won every matchplay pairing, and moving right up the courts.
Now it seems this will be a constant job to keep his form based on what he
knows vs what he sees, but he needs the extra reps of a drill group with kids.

tlm
02-24-2012, 07:30 AM
Funny,
I was just on the ph discussing this with my youngest. Before he started
doing drills at a local Academy, he used his legs well and got super, biting
TS on most of his shots. When he started with the academy, it was helping
to dominate most rallys with the other Academy students from day 1.

After working with them only a short time, he started hitting deeper, flatter,
and using his legs less, as these are the shots he saw out of their "better players"
training there. My kid had gone from winning 80% of his rallys to more like 45-
50% with his new style; often losing or winning based on who hit long first.
I got him back on the Smart Target system for a practice by warming him up
and focusing on that before practice. He went out there and had the best
day ever and won every matchplay pairing, and moving right up the courts.
Now it seems this will be a constant job to keep his form based on what he
knows vs what he sees, but he needs the extra reps of a drill group with kids.



I don't understand why when he started using his legs less he then began hitting deeper and flatter. Are you saying the kids that he thought were the better players use more arm than legs?

You know what i have found is that a lot of times the more weight and forward motion i put into my shots the more of them go long. Maybe it is because when i get my lower body into the shot i am still arming the shot also which causes the depth control problem.

I know it may sound strange but that is one of the reasons i believe that i pull off the ball a lot and don't try to put to much weight forward on a typical rally ball. I can hit this shot very consistently with very few going long, but when i get more weight and legs into the shot i have a lot more sailing out.

I am not saying that this is a good thing it is probably just because of my bad mechanics or something. But i do know that if i start hitting to many long i concentrate on more WW finish instead of forward and that stops the long errors.

5263
02-24-2012, 07:43 AM
I don't understand why when he started using his legs less he then began hitting deeper and flatter. Are you saying the kids that he thought were the better players use more arm than legs?

You know what i have found is that a lot of times the more weight and forward motion i put into my shots the more of them go long. Maybe it is because when i get my lower body into the shot i am still arming the shot also which causes the depth control problem.

I know it may sound strange but that is one of the reasons i believe that i pull off the ball a lot and don't try to put to much weight forward on a typical rally ball. I can hit this shot very consistently with very few going long, but when i get more weight and legs into the shot i have a lot more sailing out.

I am not saying that this is a good thing it is probably just because of my bad mechanics or something. But i do know that if i start hitting to many long i concentrate on more WW finish instead of forward and that stops the long errors.

There are a lot of factors to coordinate here.

To your 1st question - ages 12-15s tend to not do good on bending legs due to all the growth and strength issues, so with that they often stand too tall and tend to lean into the shots. Bad for balance which is bad for control. My son had started to emulate this to an extent.

To the point about you, I expect you should be much more vertical with your legs and body, with your wt going up into the shot
vs out into the shot.
This should make getting the spin much easier and allow your arm to generate less spin/power, but more solid feel/control. Everything should smooth out to an extent.
Make sense?

tlm
02-24-2012, 08:10 AM
There are a lot of factors to coordinate here.

To your 1st question - ages 12-15s tend to not do good on bending legs due to all the growth and strength issues, so with that they often stand too tall and tend to lean into the shots. Bad for balance which is bad for control. My son had started to emulate this to an extent.

To the point about you, I expect you should be much more vertical with your legs and body, with your wt going up into the shot
vs out into the shot.
This should make getting the spin much easier and allow your arm to generate less spin/power, but more solid feel/control. Everything should smooth out to an extent.
Make sense?



Okay that makes sense good explanation.

rkelley
02-24-2012, 09:11 AM
Funny,
I was just on the ph discussing this with my youngest. Before he started
doing drills at a local Academy, he used his legs well and got super, biting
TS on most of his shots. When he started with the academy, it was helping
to dominate most rallys with the other Academy students from day 1.

After working with them only a short time, he started hitting deeper, flatter,
and using his legs less, as these are the shots he saw out of their "better players"
training there. My kid had gone from winning 80% of his rallys to more like 45-
50% with his new style; often losing or winning based on who hit long first.
I got him back on the Smart Target system for a practice by warming him up
and focusing on that before practice. He went out there and had the best
day ever and won every matchplay pairing, and moving right up the courts.
Now it seems this will be a constant job to keep his form based on what he
knows vs what he sees, but he needs the extra reps of a drill group with kids.

To your 1st question - ages 12-15s tend to not do good on bending legs due to all the growth and strength issues, so with that they often stand too tall and tend to lean into the shots. Bad for balance which is bad for control. My son had started to emulate this to an extent.

So what's my excuse at 49?

Seriously, I understand exactly what you're saying. When I can get set-up with my legs bent, and then use my leg drive to generate the correct swing path, I get great topspin and pace and life is good. When I start getting lazy and the knees don't bend so much it's more a crap shoot. Harder, flatter, topspin isn't as biting, and stuff goes long.

I was just hitting with a buddy last night (a very good player) and we were both kind of lamenting how we sometimes get lazy in a rally, don't set-up right, shots aren't so good, then we get mad at ourselves and then really set-up correctly for the next couple of shots, hit correctly, great results, and right when you think you have the problems worked out you get lazy again.

Limpinhitter
02-24-2012, 09:15 AM
So what's my excuse at 49?

Seriously, I understand exactly what you're saying. When I can get set-up with my legs bent, and then use my leg drive to generate the correct swing path, I get great topspin and pace and life is good. When I start getting lazy and the knees don't bend so much it's more a crap shoot. Harder, flatter, topspin isn't as biting, and stuff goes long.

I was just hitting with a buddy last night (a very good player) and we were both kind of lamenting how we sometimes get lazy in a rally, don't set-up right, shots aren't so good, then we get mad at ourselves and then really set-up correctly for the next couple of shots, hit correctly, great results, and right when you think you have the problems worked out you get lazy again.

The knees don't need to bend that far. Part of the technique is to keep a wide stance throughout your set-up and shot execution.

5263
02-24-2012, 09:32 AM
The knees don't need to bend that far. Part of the technique is to keep a wide stance throughout your set-up and shot execution.

rkelly, I agree with above that it doesn't take that much bend really, but it does take a little, along with good timing, and the "position on the ball" needs to be good as well. I think leg presses on the heavier side at the gym helps a bit, but with no equipment you can do a version of a one legged squat. It really only takes a couple of sets a couple of times a week to help quite a bit if you care that much, lol.
We all get lazy with it at times and have to constantly try to get back on track.

Cheetah
02-24-2012, 10:55 PM
tim,

you don't need to 'put weight forward' for a regular rally shot. putting weight up into the shot is better if you are trying to nail the 'modern style'. it works. you get lots of power this way if you do it correctly. doesnt have to be forward. that's why the spanish guys can hit w/ power even when they are leaning back on a shot cuz they are still pushing up. the key is you have to have correct timing and separation. separation means you fire one link in the kinetic chain AND THEN the next link. not several links at the same time. a lot of people (who arent pros) dont have good separation. you start with legs, then the hips, then the torso, then shoulders, then the arm. in that order. it's a chain. it's a whip. you have to visualize 'whipping your arm around' like when you crack a whip. you ever see someone who can't crack a whip? why is that? it's not cuz they can't swing fast enough. it's because they can't move the whip with the proper chain of energy going from hand to tip. they are concentrating on moving the tip and not pushing the energy wave sequentially from hand to tip. these ppl would probably arm their tennis swings too. this is why it's better to have a smooth takeback and swing w/o stopping the racquet before swinging forward.

use the 'sit and lift' like james blake describes it. but you dont have to go as far down as a sit.

here's a good tip. worked for me: stand on your right leg only. spread arms for balance. then lower your body while standing on right leg only. bend down like idk... 8 inches? then stand straight up again. repeat several times. get that feeling of how it feels when your weight is on right leg then pushing up.

that's what you have to do when you swing. weight on right leg. right leg is bent. left leg is bent and on toes not flat on ground. left leg is just for balance. ground. push up with right leg. rotate hips, shoulders, arm in that order. you should feel energy going from foot to leg up the body to shoulders and then to arm in a sequential manner. kinetic chain. arm whips around. admire shot. repeat.

you break the chain by firing out of sequence or skipping a link like swing arm before hips turn etc then your shot will suck.

djoko has a western grip. look how smooth this is. he's not using his arm. it looks like he's using his arm to your 'untrained eye' i'm sure. haha. but he's not. he's using the magic of physics. starts from his leg although he's in casual mode here. racquet whips around like a whip with good speed just from a proper chain. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2wdlDXOnMY&feature=related

tlm
02-25-2012, 05:59 AM
tim,

you don't need to 'put weight forward' for a regular rally shot. putting weight up into the shot is better if you are trying to nail the 'modern style'. it works. you get lots of power this way if you do it correctly. doesnt have to be forward. that's why the spanish guys can hit w/ power even when they are leaning back on a shot cuz they are still pushing up. the key is you have to have correct timing and separation. separation means you fire one link in the kinetic chain AND THEN the next link. not several links at the same time. a lot of people (who arent pros) dont have good separation. you start with legs, then the hips, then the torso, then shoulders, then the arm. in that order. it's a chain. it's a whip. you have to visualize 'whipping your arm around' like when you crack a whip. you ever see someone who can't crack a whip? why is that? it's not cuz they can't swing fast enough. it's because they can't move the whip with the proper chain of energy going from hand to tip. they are concentrating on moving the tip and not pushing the energy wave sequentially from hand to tip. these ppl would probably arm their tennis swings too. this is why it's better to have a smooth takeback and swing w/o stopping the racquet before swinging forward.

use the 'sit and lift' like james blake describes it. but you dont have to go as far down as a sit.

here's a good tip. worked for me: stand on your right leg only. spread arms for balance. then lower your body while standing on right leg only. bend down like idk... 8 inches? then stand straight up again. repeat several times. get that feeling of how it feels when your weight is on right leg then pushing up.

that's what you have to do when you swing. weight on right leg. right leg is bent. left leg is bent and on toes not flat on ground. left leg is just for balance. ground. push up with right leg. rotate hips, shoulders, arm in that order. you should feel energy going from foot to leg up the body to shoulders and then to arm in a sequential manner. kinetic chain. arm whips around. admire shot. repeat.

you break the chain by firing out of sequence or skipping a link like swing arm before hips turn etc then your shot will suck.

djoko has a western grip. look how smooth this is. he's not using his arm. it looks like he's using his arm to your 'untrained eye' i'm sure. haha. but he's not. he's using the magic of physics. starts from his leg although he's in casual mode here. racquet whips around like a whip with good speed just from a proper chain. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2wdlDXOnMY&feature=related



This sounds like good advise because like i mentioned earlier if stepping into the ball to much i found that if i don't hit the ball just right it is easy to hit long. So i like the idea of using more lift to get the power, now to try to get the chain to fire in order. This is going to take some work.