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Faithfulfather
02-18-2012, 08:33 PM
You don't lose 360 degree rotation with the Diablo attachment if you put the Wise head all the back. I have not had a chance to string a racquet yet, but I should within the next week. I'll post further comments then.

i3602u
02-18-2012, 09:07 PM
Nice setup did you need to make any mods such as drilling holes etc

Faithfulfather
02-18-2012, 09:23 PM
The only thing I had to do was move over one of the metal brackets. You can see the screw marks in picture 2. It was a seamless install.

Irvin
02-19-2012, 06:28 AM
Depending on how large the head of the racket is and how you mount the racket you loose your 360 rotation. In the picture it looks like you have to pull the top strings from off center which creates more friction and less tension on the strings pulled at the head. That turntable is really close to the Wise also.

Faithfulfather
02-19-2012, 06:44 AM
What do you suggest I do? Should I make a bracket to move the Wise head further back? What about just removing the diablo attachment? Would it help if I raised the Wise head so the head is level with the string bed?

Irvin
02-19-2012, 07:01 AM
What do you suggest I do? Should I make a bracket to move the Wise head further back? What about just removing the diablo attachment?

I am not sure what you can do. If you move the Wise farther back you may put too much torgue on the mounting points or the base of the stringer. I too have a similar problem. I use a 2" spacer (http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Wise_2086_Elec_Pro_Tensioner_Gamma_Adapter/descpageWISE-WISETHGA.html) to raise the Wise up to the level of the string bed on my 6004. With this the racket hits the Wise and there is no 360 rotation. I am still tensioning at close to straight on though but I still have some friction when pulling strings from the throat area.

Faithfulfather
02-19-2012, 07:15 AM
Thank you for your advice. I will try some different ideas. How important is the diablo attachment?

Irvin
02-19-2012, 07:20 AM
Unless you are stringing gut not very. The Wise had a problem with gut initially. The tension head was below the level of the string bed pulling on a plan parallel with the string bed. When the gripper pulled tension the string angle going into the gripper changed and the front of the linear gripper damaged the string so Wise came up with the spacer. The Spacer stops the 360 rotation so Wise came up with a diablo.

If you are using string that is not damaged with the Wise without the diablo take it off. Be mindful when you start using multis and gut though.

Faithfulfather
02-19-2012, 07:48 AM
I string with gut and poly. So far I moved the Wise head back an inch and re-gained the 360 degree rotation. I think I need to moved it over toward the center of the stringer about 2 inches.

Faithfulfather
02-19-2012, 03:08 PM
I strung my first racquet. I strung it in under 30 minutes. I absolutely love this Wise head.

rich s
02-19-2012, 05:56 PM
What do you suggest I do? Should I make a bracket to move the Wise head further back? What about just removing the diablo attachment? Would it help if I raised the Wise head so the head is level with the string bed?

related but somewhat not..... I would drill a third hole in the mount at the same distance from the first hole that the original mount bracket is drilled/spaced and leave the original rear hole in the mount open.... use the original threaded piece to attach to the mount then slide the entire Wise/Mount combination backward away from the turn table pivot to buy you some space between the Wise and the turntable/uprights/etc.... this should help you from having to have your upright supports being biased to one side of the turntable as is seen in your first pic/link.

see the pics..... if I am not completely clear just say so and I'll try to better articulate....

http://i43.tinypic.com/59suu0.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2lt3olv.jpg

Faithfulfather
02-19-2012, 06:20 PM
I have to take updated pics. I moved the Wise head back about and inch or so and center the racquet mounts on the pivot point of the gamma stringer. The Wise string clamp is higher and more centered than the original gamma drop weight. So far so good. I have strung 3 racquets and all have turned out great. There is not any more string binding on the grommets than with the drop weight. Actually there is less. I still want to try what Irvin stated as I trust him more than my 6 months of stringing. I appreciate everyone's help.

Irvin
02-20-2012, 03:24 AM
'Faithfulfather' I think you are on the right track. Centering the billiard posts on the turntable produces the same angles - friction - tension in the top as you have on the bottom and a more symmetrical string job.

Red001
01-07-2013, 08:01 AM
'Faithfulfather' I think you are on the right track. Centering the billiard posts on the turntable produces the same angles - friction - tension in the top as you have on the bottom and a more symmetrical string job.

I moved WISE 2086 back and raised it up a bit using aluminum plates - here are couple pictures ...
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/j33hQYa3spX9fv0UIbqHPtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=d irectlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aewY0HUYm9lfzHGMDC0bI9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=d irectlink

Faithfulfather
01-08-2013, 02:24 AM
Here are some updated pics. I have moved the head more on-center, so the angle (friction) is decreased.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/medicdad2005/E0C71A8C-1506-47B1-8648-7BB09C3AE4B7-2878-00000184A95DDA1C.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/medicdad2005/D16DFFE0-1B00-4B79-8D7A-5827FAA17BB3-2878-00000184A530ED17.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/medicdad2005/A5012B81-9027-491F-BB04-5C889B2DFD1C-2878-0000018496FBE153.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/medicdad2005/0073717F-936D-43E7-8D5E-10CA5BDC2CD9-2878-000001849C1653F0.jpg

Faithfulfather
01-08-2013, 02:28 AM
I plan on getting certified and starting a small stringing business. Should I upgrade to the 6004 or is this set-up sufficient?

Irvin
01-08-2013, 03:21 AM
Here are some updated pics. I have moved the head more on-center, so the angle (friction) is decreased. I am considering raising the head about 35mm. 360 degree rotation will not be lost and the head will be near level with the racquet bed. Thoughts? ...

If you leave the tension head below the racket you will have more even tension on every string. With the tension head pulling at the level of the string bed you will have very little (if any) tension loss due to friction where the string bends at the frame on the center mains and crosses. Raising the level of the tensioner to the level of the stringbed gives you a built in proportional string bed as there is greater angle / friction on the outside strings for mains and crosses.

You be the judge I like the tension being pulled on the level of the stringbed.

Faithfulfather
01-08-2013, 03:45 AM
What about the 6004 vs this setup?

Irvin
01-08-2013, 04:23 AM
What about the 6004 vs this setup?

Your call, if you think your customers will care buy the one you think will get you the most business. I can't see much difference except for ergonomics. Do you think you can recoup $1,200?

Faithfulfather
01-08-2013, 04:26 AM
To be honest, I don't think it will. I see your setup and I'm envious. It rotates so freely and smoothly. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's machine.

SwankPeRFection
01-08-2013, 10:15 PM
It's a nice setup man. Raise the head some and it will be even better. As for what people thing, it's compact and it works great! That's all that matters. Look at it this way, you could take that thing with you in the car and not bust a nut trying to load/unload it. Elite if you ask me. Only thing that would improve that thing would be a table that didn't warp where the clamps are. I saw a video a while back where the aluminum rails warp a bit when you pull tension on them. That's about it... but it looks awesome.

I can't wait to get my Wise and mount it on my Alpha. It'll be almost as compact but heavier due to steel construction of the table/rails, etc. Damn you... now I want a Wise more. lol

Faithfulfather
01-10-2013, 04:17 AM
I now have the string gripper 10mm under the string bed. Should I try to get it closer or is that sufficient?

Lakers4Life
01-10-2013, 07:06 AM
It should be good enough, as long as you still have 360 deg rotation.

Faithfulfather
01-10-2013, 07:27 AM
How much distance is between your 6004 w/wise?

Lakers4Life
01-10-2013, 08:25 AM
I don't use the Gamma Adaptor, but I'd say Less than an inch below the string bed.

Irvin
01-10-2013, 09:01 AM
How much distance is between your 6004 w/wise?

Two inches. The Gamma adapter that I use raises the Wise two inches.

The Gamma adapter was a temporary fix for the problem of the Wise damaging natty gut when it slipped in the front of the string gripper. By raising the Wise up two inches on Gamma machines which is the level of the string bed there was no slipping. Then Herb came out with a poorly engineered diablo which has been replaced by another.

Because you have a diablo you don't need to raise the Wise to the level of the string bed unless you are looking for the proportional aspect I mentioned before.

EDIT: This assumes you are talking about a vertical plain and not the horizontal plain when you ask for distance between the Wise and 6004 (turntable.)

Faithfulfather
01-10-2013, 10:08 AM
I'm looking for an Alpha Revo 4000, so this obsession of mine will hopefully end. I am mainly being this precise for the next owner of this Gamma X-6FC and anyone else facing this dilemma. Plus, I am stupid anal about little things.

struggle
01-10-2013, 10:17 AM
don't sweat it too much. i'd say most/many stringers maintain 360 degree rotation, so you'd not be inconsistent in that aspect.

i can see Irvin's points, but sometimes you need not worry about the small stuff that others make a large deal about.

it's all good, lets you make your own choices. info and input is always a good thing.

Lakers4Life
01-10-2013, 10:22 AM
Are you planning on selling the Gamma with the Wise?

I actually owned a X-6FC briefly, before selling it. I wanted to do the same thing you did with your machine.

Faithfulfather
01-10-2013, 10:33 AM
Are you planning on selling the Gamma with the Wise?

I think I am going to keep the wise. All the T-6061 aluminum stock and mounting hardware will go to the next owner in case they ever decide to use a Wise 2086 head. The only permanent modification I have made to the machine is four 1/4" holes. I also added 4 more bolts w/washers to the clamping rails for added support to help with deformation during the stringing process.

struggle
01-10-2013, 10:43 AM
Since you are going all in, I'd suggest a better platform than a revo 4000, no offense intended to its' owners.

it's barely a step above your current setup.

Faithfulfather
01-10-2013, 10:48 AM
What would you suggest?

struggle
01-10-2013, 10:56 AM
What would you suggest?

use what ya got and hold out for a prince or gamma to bolt your wise to.
get the good clamps, mainly.

i've had an eagnas, i can look at the alpha stuff, looks the same.
not saying it is exactly the same, but damn similar. and it's fine too,
but i'd wait. been there, done that.

Faithfulfather
01-10-2013, 11:14 AM
I need a table top as my bench is part of the room. What about a Gamma Progression ST II? What is a good table top machine?

Irvin
01-10-2013, 11:21 AM
don't sweat it too much. i'd say most/many stringers maintain 360 degree rotation, so you'd not be inconsistent in that aspect.

i can see Irvin's points, but sometimes you need not worry about the small stuff that others make a large deal about.

it's all good, lets you make your own choices. info and input is always a good thing.

I couldn't agree more. If I had a diablo with 360 degree rotation I'd be just as happay as I am with the adapter pulling at string bed level. Push come to shove I would rather have the diablo with 360 degree rotation.

Lakers4Life
01-10-2013, 11:24 AM
I have to agree with tb. Unless you really want a tabletop machine. Though I don't how the used market for stringing machines in Louisana is, but a used Gamma 6004 or Prince 1500 would be your best bet.

Faithfulfather
01-10-2013, 11:33 AM
The used market is not that great. What about a Gamma Progression ST II?

Lakers4Life
01-10-2013, 12:36 PM
Maybe, but I think everyone is picky. What we want and what we can afford are sometimes two different things. The X-ST would practically the same machine you have now. Though, if I were upgrading to the X-ST, I would upgrade the base clamps, to the switch action clamps. They are one of most soild base clamps I've used.

Faithfulfather
01-10-2013, 01:22 PM
Thanks for everything guys. I may just switch stringing rooms and get a floor model.

mad dog1
01-10-2013, 01:46 PM
Thanks for everything guys. I may just switch stringing rooms and get a floor model.

since you said you're super anal, save up and upgrade to a good flour standing machine. i started out thinking the lower end models would serve my needs. i went from 3 different eagnas machines and finally upgraded to the ektelon neos 1000 thinking that i would never upgrade again. then got the gamma 6004. then got the wise. finally ended up w/ a babolat sensor. i'm pretty anal too and after using each machine for awhile, i found something that i wasn't happy with and began to look for a better machine. while there are things that i don't like about the sensor, it's got the fewest shortcomings of all the machines i had previously owned so i just have to accept it. :)

however, when i find something that's better, i'll definitely switch. i have a feeling i'll eventually end up w/ a Stringway auto dropweight. someday.

Faithfulfather
01-10-2013, 02:04 PM
I just talk to the boss (wife) and she agreed to let me move my stringing stuff from the back (non-air conditioned) room. So, I think I am just going to get a neos 1000. I'll need a stand alone stringer due to not having a built in work-table.

Faithfulfather
01-10-2013, 02:05 PM
Maddog1, What didn't you like about the neos 1000?

mad dog1
01-10-2013, 02:21 PM
Maddog1, What didn't you like about the neos 1000?

i owned the ektelon and not the prince neos 1000. from what i was told by JC at tennismachines, the ektelons are better than the prince quality wise. it was by far the best lockout machine i tried. the turntable was very solid; no flexing like the gamma & eagnas. the tension bar was the thickest and resisted flexing better than the gamma & eagnas. the glide bar clamps had VERY little drawback. what i didn't like was that the glidebars don't work for fan patterns unless significant modifications are made. 2ndly, if i wanted CP capability, the only way was to add a wise and i had to deal w/ herb before and didn't really want to deal with him again. you never know when the wise you'll get the flashing digit error which can only be reset and cleared by wise.

you already have the wise and don't plan to sell it so this won't be an issue. if you have no intention of stringing any fan pattern sticks, that would be a non-issue as well. i originally started off just stringing my own racquets, but started stringing for some of the guys i play with so i wanted a machine that could handle any string pattern - straight or fan.

Faithfulfather
01-10-2013, 02:28 PM
Oh, I understand that. Since I already have the Wise, I will have to cross that bridge when it happens. I don't string fan patterns, so that is not a problem. I have a friend who has one and he said I can string a racket on it to try it out, so I'll reserve my decision until then. Thanks for your input.

Lakers4Life
01-10-2013, 02:30 PM
Neos 1000 does not have 360 degree rotation. A friend of mine pickup a used one recently. The handle seems to not be held in pretty well. Going from swivel clamps to glide bar is something different.

It a good machine, but I would not like to own one.

One other thing, trying to get parts from TM is a PITA. They rarely answer their phone. They get parts from Prince, when they are out of stock on commonly replaced parts. I've been calling them since New Years, to get a Dog kit and replacement pads. JC is a nice guy, but they are a two man operation.

At least with Gamma, I order parts and it's shipped the next day.

mad dog1
01-10-2013, 02:35 PM
Oh, I understand that. Since I already have the Wise, I will have to cross that bridge when it happens. I don't string fan patterns, so that is not a problem. I have a friend who has one and he said I can string a racket on it to try it out, so I'll reserve my decision until then. Thanks for your input.

the ektelon neos 1000 is a great machine! but unfortunately are only available used. seems like the newer prince neos 1000s aren't quite as bulletproof based on some threads i've seen. since you're not doing any fan pattern, i would recommend it over the gamma.

the other shortcoming is the disc brake. this one isn't a big deal. it's not as good as the brake systems with hard detent stops and if you don't use a brake, it's another non issue.

mad dog1
01-10-2013, 02:38 PM
Neos 1000 does not have 360 degree rotation. A friend of mine pickup a used one recently. The handle seems to not be held in pretty well. Going from swivel clamps to glide bar is something different.

It a would machine, but I would not like to own one.

true...L4L is right about lacking 360 rotation. been awhile since i've had the neos. i forgot about that. it wasn't a big deal for me.

when you buy used, unfortunately you can't control how the previous owners had used or abused the machine.

mine had no issues at all.

Faithfulfather
01-10-2013, 06:40 PM
Neos 1000 or Gamma 6004? Which one should I get?

mad dog1
01-10-2013, 08:33 PM
Neos 1000 or Gamma 6004? Which one should I get?

i have no firsthand experience w/ the newer prince neos 1000. but having owned the gamma 6004 and the older neos 1000 here are the pros and cons of both.

gamma 6004:
pros: swivel clamps, new machines have improved brake (detent system), quick self centering mounting, 360 degree rotation
cons: turntable flexes noticeably, tension bar flexes more than the older neos, more clamp drawback.

older neos 1000:
pros: less clamp drawback, turntable doesn't flex, tension bar is thicker resisting flexing better, quick 2 pt mounting.
cons: glidebar clamps can't do fan patterns, disc brake isn't as secure as the detent system of the new gammas, lack of 360 degree rotation

depends on what's important to you. based on what you've mentioned earlier, i would go w/ the neos. less drawback and greater turntable and tension bar rigidity gets way more points in my book.

forgot to mention, i preferred the feel of the stringbed when i strung my sticks on the neos vs the gamma.

Faithfulfather
01-10-2013, 08:37 PM
Thanks MadDog1.

Lakers4Life
01-10-2013, 09:33 PM
One thing MD1 did not mention about the NEOS, probably because he had not owned one long enough, is the dog that holds the throat clamp wears out after time. Once that wears down it's a PITA to get replaced. (See my earlier rant) BTW I'm still waiting to get that part from TM.

mad dog1
01-10-2013, 10:08 PM
One thing MD1 did not mention about the NEOS, probably because he had not owned one long enough, is the dog that holds the throat clamp wears out after time. Once that wears down it's a PITA to get replaced. (See my earlier rant) BTW I'm still waiting to get that part from TM.

yeah, i admit i was fickle and two timing when it came to stringing machines! :) i owned 5 different machines within a short period of 14 months (many at the same time) before i ultimately settled down w/ the sensor to who i've been faithful to for 23 months now. :shock:

Faithfulfather
01-11-2013, 05:28 AM
I really do appreciate all the great info. I guess with anything in life there are always sacrifices.

struggle
01-11-2013, 09:41 AM
i'd get the 1500 or the 6004.

i think you have a better chance of finding an older gamma if you want it with the swivel clamps.

Having the 6004 (i like the 6 pt. mount), i wouldn't swap it for a prince but they are just as fine, if not finer...

Lakers4Life
01-11-2013, 01:08 PM
yeah, i admit i was fickle and two timing when it came to stringing machines! :) i owned 5 different machines within a short period of 14 months (many at the same time) before i ultimately settled down w/ the sensor to who i've been faithful to for 23 months now. :shock:

I've owned more machines, but mainly used four machines used in my business. Most of the other machines, I've bought, reconditioned and sold. I currently have 4. Two of which are waiting for parts. The other two I currently use. I have over 1000 rackets on both of my current machines and counting.

Faithfulfather
01-11-2013, 02:31 PM
Neos 1500 or Gamma 6004 2 point?

Lakers4Life
01-11-2013, 02:41 PM
Both machines are good. But I prefer the Gamma because of the base clamps.

Faithfulfather
01-11-2013, 03:10 PM
Okay. Thank you.

Faithfulfather
01-11-2013, 03:23 PM
My budget will decide for me. I may have to just keep what I have and buy the Gamma Stand.

dak95_00
01-11-2013, 04:56 PM
My 2 cents:

I'd just keep what you've got and really save and then invest in something very high end down the road if it is something you REALLY want to do. I don't see how either the Prince Neos 1000/1500 or Gamma 6004 is going to be a giant upgrade to what you have; 360 degree rotation, 6 point mount, and a Wise.

Disclaimer:
I'm not the stringing/stringer expert these guys are. I have strung on only glide bar machines; Ektelon H, Neos 1000, and Prince P200. For me, the constant pull of the pneumatic P200 made it the fastest and most accurate in my learning stages of stringing. If I were to upgrade, I'd have to go to swivel clamps for fan patterns, ATW w/o adaptations, and just go BIG because the pneumatic pull is fantastic and very reliable. I'd like to stick with the 2 point or 4 point mounting for what seems to me to be less obstruction when I do small racquet heads such as badminton. Like another poster said, I would also consider an automatic drop weight such as a Stringway too.

SwankPeRFection
01-12-2013, 06:43 PM
^^^^ Agree...

Honestly, I'd rather string with your current setup now than with a crank-based machine ANY day of the week.

Faithfulfather
01-12-2013, 07:07 PM
^^^^ Agree...

Honestly, I'd rather string with your current setup now than with a crank-based machine ANY day of the week.

It is a nice setup. But, for some reason I know it is a Frankenstein set-up and that bothers me. I really don't know why. I wish I could just be satisfied.

Faithfulfather
01-12-2013, 07:11 PM
I just figured why I want a new set-up. Back in September I tore my left ACL and this is the only way I can stay in the tennis world. I have 2 more months of rehab. Plus, I want to start a small stringing business and look professional.

Faithfulfather
01-17-2013, 07:00 PM
I bought a Gamma 6004 6-point, so this one will be up for sale soon. I am keeping the Wise 2086.

Lakers4Life
01-17-2013, 07:02 PM
Good luck! I saw a post from a player from Tulane looking for a machine, though I don't think he was looking for a DW.

Perezp22
04-02-2014, 03:40 PM
I moved WISE 2086 back and raised it up a bit using aluminum plates - here are couple pictures ...
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/j33hQYa3spX9fv0UIbqHPtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=d irectlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aewY0HUYm9lfzHGMDC0bI9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=d irectlink


Red and Faithful,
Faithful,
I am in the market for the x-6fc and have found several used ones for reasonable prices. I am very curious as to how you guys adapted the Wise head on this machine. Although I will not have the Wise immediately, it is on my list of future upgrades and really would like to know how to mount that badboy. Thanks for your help and any light you can shed on this!

struggle
04-02-2014, 03:44 PM
Red and Faithful,
Faithful,
I am in the market for the x-6fc and have found several used ones for reasonable prices. I am very curious as to how you guys adapted the Wise head on this machine. Although I will not have the Wise immediately, it is on my list of future upgrades and really would like to know how to mount that badboy. Thanks for your help and any light you can shed on this!


you use this:
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Wise_2086_Elec_Pro_Tensioner_Drop_Weight_Adapter/descpageWISE-WISETDWA.html

Perezp22
04-02-2014, 05:37 PM
you use this:
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Wise_2086_Elec_Pro_Tensioner_Drop_Weight_Adapter/descpageWISE-WISETDWA.html

LOL, Thanks tbuggle! That was pretty damn easy! Much appreciated!