PDA

View Full Version : Is a frame that comes unstrung from the factory still considered new if....


snoflewis
02-21-2012, 07:47 PM
it's been previously strung and cut out? The plastic on the grip would still be intact. What do you guys think?

Fuji
02-21-2012, 09:22 PM
New? No. 9.5/10 condition, yes. Once I string a frame I do not consider it a new frame, just one that has been strung and not used.

(Also to avoid any smarty pants answer of if it comes prestrung from the factory, then yes, it is new. I must clarify that if it came unstrung and you string it, I do consider it a non new/mint frame.)

-Fuji

snoflewis
02-21-2012, 09:33 PM
New? No. 9.5/10 condition, yes. Once I string a frame I do not consider it a new frame, just one that has been strung and not used.

(Also to avoid any smarty pants answer of if it comes prestrung from the factory, then yes, it is new. I must clarify that if it came unstrung and you string it, I do consider it a non new/mint frame.)

-Fuji

right. a frame is new if it is in the same condition as it came into the retailer from the manufacturer. that's my train of though, but i'm looking to see what other people are saying. I came across this issue today and am waiting to hear back from the customer service reps to see what they have to say.

my stance is that if an item is without modification and in the same condition as it came from the manufacturer, then it is new. any modification, stringing, replacing anything, w/e it may be, is not considered new. my argument is that if a frame has been strung, and it is obvious (as shown by the deformed grommets at the tie offs as well as the outerpart where the string loops), then it is not new. especially since the racket goes through the most stress during stringing (outside of abuse, of course).

however, i guess the counterargument can be that it has never been hit with or "used" but i just dont think that's a good argument because if it's been strung, it's been used. especially if the customer requests to string it at high tensions or even beyond the recommended tension range, which would then put even more stress on the frame. like i mentioned, i'm waiting to hear back.

I would appreciate if fellow members can just give me some input and respond to the poll. Thanks.

Bartelby
02-21-2012, 09:50 PM
That's why they put one of those labels on the racquet. To show you that its new. And it will have one whether its factory strung or not. It performs the same function as the plastic on the grip.

A modest discount would be in order.

snoflewis
02-21-2012, 09:57 PM
I'm still waiting for the CS to get back to me so I'll discuss it with them once I see what they have to say.

the thing is that it's not only on one racket. I ordered 3 of the same rackets, and they're ALL this way.

snoflewis
02-21-2012, 10:27 PM
Here's a few pics for reference. this is of one frame. all 3 of the frames i ordered (the same ones) are like this:

grommets outside the hoops reveal where the strings loop
http://i42.tinypic.com/e1270j.jpg

you can see the deformed grommet holes, especially at the tie offs. you can also see that where the mains and crosses alternate, the grommets clearly go one way or the other. if these were new frames, they would just be perpendicular to the frame.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2u6msjm.jpg

another one for reference.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2cdwvbm.jpg

Autumnleaf
02-22-2012, 08:06 AM
yeah i guess that does not look like a new frame.

Deuces Wild
02-22-2012, 09:21 AM
I wouldn't consider it new. Hope they refund you part of the money or let you return them.

snoflewis
02-22-2012, 11:28 AM
For those voting yes... Whats your take on it?

dode
02-22-2012, 11:57 AM
You have to be very careful of this. I ran into this recently from a vendor not named TW. They will leave the plastic on the handle, string the racquet, put on an over grip over the plastic, and use it as a demo. Then, cut the strings out and try and call it a new racquet. One tell-tale sign of this usually is that when you try and take the plastic off of the grip, the grip will get all torn up from the pressure of gripping the racquet. I have seen it happen a couple of times before too. Once it is strung, IMO, the best that it is going to be is 9.5/10.

John

snoflewis
02-22-2012, 01:03 PM
You have to be very careful of this. I ran into this recently from a vendor not named TW. They will leave the plastic on the handle, string the racquet, put on an over grip over the plastic, and use it as a demo. Then, cut the strings out and try and call it a new racquet. One tell-tale sign of this usually is that when you try and take the plastic off of the grip, the grip will get all torn up from the pressure of gripping the racquet. I have seen it happen a couple of times before too. Once it is strung, IMO, the best that it is going to be is 9.5/10.

John

oh wow. i see.
i can tell the rackets definitely haven't been played with. and with the blx 6.1 95s, it's not a shrink wrap plastic wrap over the grip. it's a loose plastic wrapping. what they said was that it's from a previous cancelled order, but i know for a fact that they also take returns on strung rackets. the only thing is that when a customer returns a racket that was strung by them, they dont refund the string costs, but they'll give back full price on the racket. I'll give them a call today and request to speak to a supervisor or a manager and go from there. i'll keep you guys updated.

UCSF2012
02-22-2012, 01:20 PM
If you intend on using those rackets yourself, it's the same racket. Either they're strung for someone else initially, or they're strung for the first time by you. There is no difference whatsoever.

snoflewis
02-22-2012, 01:32 PM
well yeah...i wasn't sent a different racket than advertised.
once it's been strung, you dont know how many times it's been strung in the first place or if it's been strung beyond what is recommended. and the fact that the retailer would sell something as new when, in my opinion, it's not, is kind of alarming especially since it's a reputable dealer.

thanks for the input. it's good to see some diversity.

Rorsach
02-22-2012, 01:35 PM
If you want them fo collection/display purposes: then no, they're not new.
If you want them for playing: They're not damaged, so string em up again and have fun playing.

snoflewis
02-22-2012, 01:38 PM
If you want them fo collection/display purposes: then no, they're not new.
If you want them for playing: They're not damaged, so string em up again and have fun playing.

they're for playing.

honestly, i understand it's not that big of a deal, i'm just more surprised than anything that this store would do that, especially because of how big and well known it is.

AC Tennis
02-22-2012, 02:45 PM
I agree with you, they are NOT new. I think it is a bit deceptive to sell a racket as new, then send one that has been strung, thus damaging the grommets. While they are still probably playable, that is not the point. When I buy something advertised as new, I want it as it came from the manufacturer. If I want very good condition, no scratches, but previously strung, I will buy a very good condition used racket from these message boards. Getting rackets like yours would erode my confidence in that company and I would shy away from dealing with them in the future. Just seems like bad business to me.

mberrevoets
02-22-2012, 02:53 PM
Must have a nice life to be able to worry about such things.

Larrysümmers
02-22-2012, 03:01 PM
if i ordered a NEW racket, i expect it to be NEW. it was strung up, so it was used,(even if it wasn't played with).

TW Staff
02-23-2012, 07:20 AM
snoflewis,

We do apologize for your dissatisfaction. I spoke with our customer service department and was informed of the email correspondence. I know you've been happy for 10 years with our service and was sorry to hear of your intention of doing business elsewhere, but understand that we're only as good as our last transaction. Rest assured, there is nothing shady about our business practices, and hope you have realized over the past 10 years that we are second to none when it comes to standing behind the product we sell and the service we provide. I know we have offered options to rectify the situation, and hope you'll at least take us up on that, whether you remain a customer or not. If you do decide to give us another chance, if you do have any further concerns, I recommend calling in as opposed to email (it's toll free for you since you live in the states) , as a supervisor would be able to take care of your concerns most often times in a matter of minutes.

Again, we apologize for your dissatisfaction with your last order.

Spencer, TW.

AC Tennis
02-23-2012, 09:50 AM
I had no idea we were talking about TW! That's kind of embarrasing. But rest assured, I'll keep buying from TW as they have been good to me over the years.

snoflewis
02-23-2012, 10:32 AM
snoflewis,

We do apologize for your dissatisfaction. I spoke with our customer service department and was informed of the email correspondence. I know you've been happy for 10 years with our service and was sorry to hear of your intention of doing business elsewhere, but understand that we're only as good as our last transaction. Rest assured, there is nothing shady about our business practices, and hope you have realized over the past 10 years that we are second to none when it comes to standing behind the product we sell and the service we provide. I know we have offered options to rectify the situation, and hope you'll at least take us up on that, whether you remain a customer or not. If you do decide to give us another chance, if you do have any further concerns, I recommend calling in as opposed to email (it's toll free for you since you live in the states) , as a supervisor would be able to take care of your concerns most often times in a matter of minutes.

Again, we apologize for your dissatisfaction with your last order.

Spencer, TW.

Yeah, calling would have been the best option, what turned out to be an email of curiosity turned out more serious than i expected. However, there was no implication in any of the emails regarding shadiness of your business practices. It would be flat out ignorant to consider TW a shady business. With that said, if most of your customers agree on one thing, wouldn't it be at least worth consideration?

Anyway, the rackets are with UPS. Thanks for posting on the forums though. I had no intention of saying anything regarding the order being from you guys, but it does show that you guys stand behind whatever it is that you do. That's at least worth mentioning from my end.

TW Staff
02-23-2012, 03:39 PM
We've taken a closer look at this situation and upon further investigation, we wanted to let you know that those racquets we sent you were pre-strung from the factory. Rest assured, we did not re-send out racquets that were strung by us.

The reason we sent you those specific racquets was because, of the dozens we spec'd, those 3 racquets matched up closest in spec to what you specified in your order.

Racquets that are returned to us have to be in 100% new condition. For instance, if we string a racquet and it gets returned like new but without the string, we will assume the racquet has been hit with and we will automatically put that racquet into our 'Used Racquets' section.

Once again, we apologize for your dissatisfaction, but to put your worries to rest, we wanted to let you know that those racquets were strung at the factory and not by us.

Jason, TW

courtking
02-23-2012, 03:55 PM
if plastic is still on the grip, with it's strung or unstrung I still considered NEW.. I think people is getting ridiculously paranoid over these little thing.. if no plastic on the grip i can considered not new but some manufactur strung the racket for display or whatever purpose and it's never been hitting with.. plastic is still on the grip.. it's NEW..
One of my friends thought I was selling him a fake racket b/c the Wilson BLX 95 in 2009 has a difference plastic leaves on it.. I did not make it.. Somehow Wilson decided on that particular model with that manufacture use a difference plastic wrap on the handle and he thought I was selling him a fake one.. I had to bring him to a local store and pointed out all of the BLX 95 has the same kind of plastic.. I was helping him to buy the racket b/c he could not order with that particular grip and model.. sadly, I lost a friend over the whole situation..

Bartelby
02-23-2012, 04:09 PM
Blade racquets I bought came factory strung, so if you wanted an unstrung racquet they would have had to be cut out.

If you want an unstrung racquet, therefore, you can't buy a blade.

Fuji
02-23-2012, 04:39 PM
Blade racquets I bought came factory strung, so if you wanted an unstrung racquet they would have had to be cut out.

If you want an unstrung racquet, therefore, you can't buy a blade.

Odd, blades I've seen at my shop come unstrung. Maybe different retailers have different set ups ordered?

-Fuji

Deuces Wild
02-23-2012, 04:45 PM
I've seen the strung/unstrung deal with a couple of BLX racquets which have Sensation 16 in them at some big box stores. Same racquets at tennis shops, unstrung.

Bartelby
02-23-2012, 04:47 PM
I can even get factory strung prestiges and radicals at the moment.

Swingweight
02-23-2012, 04:54 PM
I'm not sure if Wilson strings their racquets at the factory first.

I received a PS 85 in the mail from TW and selected 'do not string', and sure enough it came, and the first thing I did was check the grommets were in perfect condition, which they were.

But because it is not one of their current line, and would not be ordered in such high quantities, it's possible that they pre-string some racquets and not others, and therefore would consider a pre-strung racquet 'new' even if a play like yourself did not seem to think so.

Then again, I'm sure TW or any other distributor could make a request to have a certain amount of frames not strung to avoid anything like this happening.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it, but it's your racquet!

Deuces Wild
02-23-2012, 05:10 PM
Not sure why TW cut out the factory strings in the first place.

Bartelby
02-23-2012, 05:28 PM
The reality is that the thread was based on the premise that the racquet came unstrung from the factory, which was an assumption proved to be factually wrong.

Bartelby
02-23-2012, 05:29 PM
They explained that above.



Not sure why TW cut out the factory strings in the first place.

Deuces Wild
02-23-2012, 05:41 PM
They explained that above.

Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't see it really explained.

If it was to match up specs, couldn't they have just done that with the 3 racquets already strung?

Bartelby
02-23-2012, 06:00 PM
Its not exactingly explained but we would need the complete correspondence, but as Sherlock would say 'boring'.



Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't see it really explained.

If it was to match up specs, couldn't they have just done that with the 3 racquets already strung?

UCSF2012
02-23-2012, 06:07 PM
if plastic is still on the grip, with it's strung or unstrung I still considered NEW.. I think people is getting ridiculously paranoid over these little thing.. if no plastic on the grip i can considered not new but some manufactur strung the racket for display or whatever purpose and it's never been hitting with.. plastic is still on the grip.. it's NEW..


This is a slightly different matter. Prestrung rackets from Wilson are sold as demo's for a lower price. I bought them for $80 on Black Friday. Brand new, prestrung. However, there's no factory warranty on them.

The present situation makes me wonder whether the frames in dispute are demo's. This matters because there's no warranty on them. The last thing I want is to send frames back to Wilson and have Wilson return the rackets back, citing that they're demo's and are not covered under warranty. This is a huge problem if the buyer paid full price on them, $149 each.

Bartelby
02-23-2012, 06:13 PM
Factory pre-strung racquets are that way because many consumers think 'free string' and hence buy the racquet. They are not necessarily demos nor sold at a lower price.

snoflewis
02-23-2012, 07:48 PM
We've taken a closer look at this situation and upon further investigation, we wanted to let you know that those racquets we sent you were pre-strung from the factory. Rest assured, we did not re-send out racquets that were strung by us.

The reason we sent you those specific racquets was because, of the dozens we spec'd, those 3 racquets matched up closest in spec to what you specified in your order.

Racquets that are returned to us have to be in 100% new condition. For instance, if we string a racquet and it gets returned like new but without the string, we will assume the racquet has been hit with and we will automatically put that racquet into our 'Used Racquets' section.

Once again, we apologize for your dissatisfaction, but to put your worries to rest, we wanted to let you know that those racquets were strung at the factory and not by us.

Jason, TW

Jason, if that is the case, then if you or someone else at TW can either shoot me and email or give me a call, i'd appreciate it.

snoflewis
02-23-2012, 07:50 PM
This is a slightly different matter. Prestrung rackets from Wilson are sold as demo's for a lower price. I bought them for $80 on Black Friday. Brand new, prestrung. However, there's no factory warranty on them.

The present situation makes me wonder whether the frames in dispute are demo's. This matters because there's no warranty on them. The last thing I want is to send frames back to Wilson and have Wilson return the rackets back, citing that they're demo's and are not covered under warranty. This is a huge problem if the buyer paid full price on them, $149 each.

is there anything that indicates that they're demos? I remember they used to have red bumperguards on wilson demos, but there was nothing on these frames that said they were demos.

and since when did wilson flagship rackets come pre-strung? makes no sense. i've seen a few on ****...but that's because it's ****

Deuces Wild
02-23-2012, 09:06 PM
is there anything that indicates that they're demos? I remember they used to have red bumperguards on wilson demos, but there was nothing on these frames that said they were demos.

and since when did wilson flagship rackets come pre-strung? makes no sense. i've seen a few on ****...but that's because it's ****

They weren't demos. I think Wilson decided to send out some racquets pre strung and some not. I've seen BLX Blades, 95s and 90 Tours at sporting goods stores strung.

UCSF2012
02-23-2012, 09:22 PM
is there anything that indicates that they're demos? I remember they used to have red bumperguards on wilson demos, but there was nothing on these frames that said they were demos.

and since when did wilson flagship rackets come pre-strung? makes no sense. i've seen a few on ****...but that's because it's ****

The rackets were identical in every other way. They came prestrung with Wilson Hollow Core 17 at mid tension +2. Red stencil W that was sprayed on, instead of inked on. Plastic wrap on the handle. But the store clearly advertised them as unused, demo's, no factory warranty. My biggest question is whether the serial numbers on them identified them as demo's, since there's no warranty on them. These were Wilson's flagship rackets too...BLX90, BLX 6.1 95, BLX Open, BLX Khamsin,...etc.

snoflewis
02-23-2012, 10:30 PM
i see...well in that case, im pretty sure that even if they were to have to go through warranty inspection, TW would take care of it. it makes no sense that they would charge full price claiming it had warranty and not take responsibility right? i dont even want to think about that at this point haha