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batz
03-01-2012, 06:08 AM
http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/bryant-120229/the-ryan-braun-alberto-contador-drug-cases-reopen-old-wounds

Wouldn't surprise me if Nadal indulges in a bit of 'libel tourism' at the High Court in London.

In any other universe, even though he has never been linked to performance enhancers and has never failed a drug test, Nadal and tennis would be at the center of the doping question. The game has become more powerful, more physical and more grueling, most recently evidenced by the epic five-hour, 53-minute Australian Open final between Nadal and Novak Djokovic. Big servers such as Canada's Milos Raonic, America's John Isner, Croatia's Ivo Karlovic and Argentina's Juan Martin del Potro routinely top 135 mph. Nadal, never a big server, won the 2010 U.S. Open over Djokovic because, for two weeks, he did something he'd never done before: He became a big server, adding roughly 20 mph on average to his serve -- the equivalent of a low-90s pitcher hitting 98 on the gun. Nadal hit 130 mph on the radar gun during that championship fortnight, and attributed the increase to a grip change to continental. But he'd never reached that velocity before, and hasn't done it consistently since.

OTMPut
03-01-2012, 06:12 AM
fair point actually. how do you find that elusive +20mph just in the nick of time? grip change? why isn't grip change working again?

one guys says grip change and another says gluten free. intriguing world. reminds me of the sea of stories in a salman rushdie novel.

Nathaniel_Near
03-01-2012, 06:14 AM
It was about 8 mph I think on average compared to the previous US Open, not 10 - 20 mph. I'm guessing his serve speeds are reasonably constant at Wimbledon and the AO so in short, 10 - 20mph is an exaggeration.

PollyBallGirl
03-01-2012, 06:15 AM
Hey didnt rafael get a drug test at the 2010 us open? Pretty sure he did. I think the journalist writer got it wrong :(

Clarky21
03-01-2012, 06:17 AM
Nadal's serve at the USO in 2010 is greatly overrated and exaggerated. I wouldn't expect this guy to know that though since he primarily writes about baseball,and knows jack about tennis. Maybe he should stick to writing about how Braun scr*wed the system and got away with being doped to his eyeballs instead of attempting to write about something he knows nothing about.

OTMPut
03-01-2012, 06:20 AM
Maybe he should stick to writing about how Braun scr*wed the system and got away with being doped to his eyeballs .

may be thats why he thinks he can smell something.

Telepatic
03-01-2012, 06:20 AM
yes, i find that us open 10 serve thing fishy as well, but so far Rafito not proven guilty.

Rozroz
03-01-2012, 06:20 AM
YAY!!
another Nadal dopes thread!
i was getting bored.
http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/the-seinfeld-happy-dance.gif

Telepatic
03-01-2012, 06:22 AM
Not saying Rafito doped but I found it wierd as well how he served like that and only for that uso.

mattennis
03-01-2012, 06:23 AM
These people know nothing about tennis.

Every person that think Nadal's flat serves are something fishy know nothing about tennis.

And I am as far away as a Nadal fan as you can get.

gsharma
03-01-2012, 06:23 AM
http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/bryant-120229/the-ryan-braun-alberto-contador-drug-cases-reopen-old-wounds

Wouldn't surprise me if Nadal indulges in a bit of 'libel tourism' at the High Court in London.

In any other universe, even though he has never been linked to performance enhancers and has never failed a drug test, Nadal and tennis would be at the center of the doping question. The game has become more powerful, more physical and more grueling, most recently evidenced by the epic five-hour, 53-minute Australian Open final between Nadal and Novak Djokovic. Big servers such as Canada's Milos Raonic, America's John Isner, Croatia's Ivo Karlovic and Argentina's Juan Martin del Potro routinely top 135 mph. Nadal, never a big server, won the 2010 U.S. Open over Djokovic because, for two weeks, he did something he'd never done before: He became a big server, adding roughly 20 mph on average to his serve -- the equivalent of a low-90s pitcher hitting 98 on the gun. Nadal hit 130 mph on the radar gun during that championship fortnight, and attributed the increase to a grip change to continental. But he'd never reached that velocity before, and hasn't done it consistently since.

Hmm, so why only Nadal and why not Joker/Federer/Ferrer/Murray/Tsonga??

Way to throw someone under the bus. I hope Nadal sues this person for his/her incompetency.

Clarky21
03-01-2012, 06:26 AM
Hmm, so why only Nadal and why not Joker/Federer/Ferrer/Murray/Tsonga??

Way to throw someone under the bus. I hope Nadal sues this person for his/her incompetency.


Yep. If Nadal is doping he sure ain't alone.

monfed
03-01-2012, 06:26 AM
As with all doping allegations I'll just say this - Not guilty until proven.

Just for the fun of it, I think both Novak and Ralph juice judging by how both these players played a gruelling 5 hour semi and came back to win their respective 6 and 5 hour gruelling finals at the AO. That is inhuman fitness imo especially because their playing style is so physical.

The Wreck
03-01-2012, 06:26 AM
I don't think Rafa is doping right now. He's actually gotten significantly smaller, in my opinion, since 07-08.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XbBXKRgC7B4/SLTHQurKY-I/AAAAAAAADWA/mcTXTY1qkdg/s400/nadal.jpg

Nadal is not that jacked today. And while nothing about that physique implies being on the juice, I would at least argue it's more likely he used it then than 2010-present.

SLD76
03-01-2012, 06:31 AM
I don't think Rafa is doping right now. He's actually gotten significantly smaller, in my opinion, since 07-08.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XbBXKRgC7B4/SLTHQurKY-I/AAAAAAAADWA/mcTXTY1qkdg/s400/nadal.jpg

Nadal is not that jacked today. And while nothing about that physique implies being on the juice, I would at least argue it's more likely he used it then than 2010-present.

not all dope makes u big as a house.

he may have cut back on the stuff that made him bulk up in order to protect the knees but still take the stuff that gives one unheard of stamina.

SLD76
03-01-2012, 06:32 AM
As with all doping allegations I'll just say this - Not guilty until proven.

Just for the fun of it, I think both Novak and Ralph juice judging by how both these players played a gruelling 5 hour semi and came back to win their respective 6 and 5 hour gruelling finals at the AO. That is inhuman fitness imo especially because their playing style is so physical.

most dopers at an elite level never get caught thru testing.
it usually takes some sort of govt probe or sting.
See Balco and Operacion Puerta and Greyhound.

Rozroz
03-01-2012, 06:38 AM
at that period he was doping a little, LOL
http://cornedbeefhash.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/rafael-nadal-big-biceps.jpg?w=450

Tcbtennis
03-01-2012, 06:41 AM
I was willing to buy Djokovic's gluten free story until this past Australian Open. Right now I'm very skeptical. That marathon semifinal/final defies logic. And in my eyes, if I think that Djokovic is/was using, then I believe Nadal is/was using and yes, even Fed.

I hope that it is not the case but it reminds me of the time in the U.S. when all those homeruns were flying out of the ballpark and the first excuse was that the baseballs were being strung tighter by the manufacturers. Then it was the aerodynamics of the new ballparks that were being built. It was great to follow the Sammy Sosa, Mark Maquire homerun race. It saved baseball that was experiencing a drastic drop in attendance after the players strike.

We, as tennis fans, are experiencing are a great heydey with the athleticism of the top players. It is great but I will not be naive to think that there is no possible way that this sport is clean.

PollyBallGirl
03-01-2012, 06:44 AM
So....drug tests mean nothing..all that matters is what a journalist or fan says..haha.

SLD76
03-01-2012, 06:51 AM
So....drug tests mean nothing..all that matters is what a journalist or fan says..haha.

run along, nadalito.

SLD76
03-01-2012, 06:53 AM
I was willing to buy Djokovic's gluten free story until this past Australian Open. Right now I'm very skeptical. That marathon semifinal/final defies logic. And in my eyes, if I think that Djokovic is/was using, then I believe Nadal is/was using and yes, even Fed.

I hope that it is not the case but it reminds me of the time in the U.S. when all those homeruns were flying out of the ballpark and the first excuse was that the baseballs were being strung tighter by the manufacturers. Then it was the aerodynamics of the new ballparks that were being built. It was great to follow the Sammy Sosa, Mark Maquire homerun race. It saved baseball that was experiencing a drastic drop in attendance after the players strike.

We, as tennis fans, are experiencing are a great heydey with the athleticism of the top players. It is great but I will not be naive to think that there is no possible way that this sport is clean.

some people were saying the same thing after the 09 AO. How could rafa play that grueling 5 setter and then come back the next day and play another 5 sets? Granted that final wasnt nearly as grinding and brutal as this year's but still.


I have a slight naive hope that Fed is ok because he specifically asked for his blood samples to be held for 8 years after his retirement.

But then again, he could also be confident that his dope is 12 years ahead of the testing.

Clarky21
03-01-2012, 06:54 AM
So....drug tests mean nothing..all that matters is what a journalist or fan says..haha.


We never hear about whether or not a player passed or failed a test,so how do we know they are clean? I fail to believe that just about every competitive sport on earth has had doping problems except for tennis. I just don't buy it.

Yourtenniscoach
03-01-2012, 06:54 AM
He just says his prayers and takes his vitamins Hulkamania style. ;)

ttbrowne
03-01-2012, 06:58 AM
At this point, I think tennis is a little like baseball was, and still is apparently, in that they have a great thing going and big-names doping would mess the whole thing up. It's going to take an outsider to blow the whole thing open.

Rozroz
03-01-2012, 06:59 AM
At this point, I think tennis is a little like baseball was, and still is apparently, in that they have a great thing going and big-names doping would mess the whole thing up. It's going to take an outsider to blow the whole thing open.

can you think of a scenario?

SLD76
03-01-2012, 07:01 AM
can you think of a scenario?

not really. they caught tiger woods' doctor's assistant illegally crossing hte canadian border with all sorts of illegal stuff...nothing came of it.

Rozroz
03-01-2012, 07:03 AM
not really. they caught tiger woods' doctor's assistant illegally crossing hte canadian border with all sorts of illegal stuff...nothing came of it.

that's why i'm asking.. trying to think of something.

SLD76
03-01-2012, 07:08 AM
that's why i'm asking.. trying to think of something.

it will take a whistle blower with proof

it will take govt agensts busting into a lab while a high profile athlete is receiving 'treatment'

mattennis
03-01-2012, 07:11 AM
I am not saying they're not doping.

What I am saying is that to think Nadal is doping because of the flat serve he sometimes choose to hit, is plainly stupid.

CMM
03-01-2012, 07:30 AM
I am not saying they're not doping.

What I am saying is that to think Nadal is doping because of the flat serve he sometimes choose to hit, is plainly stupid.

The point of the article was to suggest that tennis could have a problem with doping, not necessarily Nadal. He chose him as an example because of the recent scandals between Spain and France.
He also wrote this
Success also breeds suspicion, and the Spanish are the monsters on the ATP, boasting six of the top 30 players in the world and 12 of the top 100. Instead of whining about feeling persecuted, the Spanish should be doing anything and everything to show they're above reproach.

Of course, maybe the French should be watching their backs, too, with five of the top 31 players and 10 of the top 100 players on the tour.

CMM
03-01-2012, 07:32 AM
Seems like a nice guy.

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/02/howard_bryant_writer_for_espn.html

jokinla
03-01-2012, 07:36 AM
at that period he was doping a little, LOL
http://cornedbeefhash.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/rafael-nadal-big-biceps.jpg?w=450

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

jokinla
03-01-2012, 07:39 AM
Perhaps they are all doping, although the clearest example to me would be Djokovic, not Nadal, who suddenly went from a career #3, to unbeatable, please, if that's not apparent, then what is.

volleygirl
03-01-2012, 07:57 AM
Hmm, so why only Nadal and why not Joker/Federer/Ferrer/Murray/Tsonga??

Way to throw someone under the bus. I hope Nadal sues this person for his/her incompetency.


These guys in all sports have never sued people who make these comments because they have all turned out to be cheating. So many people said "I hope these guys sue Jose Canseco" because of all the names he listed in his book but not one of them did and Canseco was proven to be 100% accurate with all the cheaters he exposed.

Power Player
03-01-2012, 07:59 AM
Nadal's serve at the USO in 2010 is greatly overrated and exaggerated. I wouldn't expect this guy to know that though since he primarily writes about baseball,and knows jack about tennis. Maybe he should stick to writing about how Braun scr*wed the system and got away with being doped to his eyeballs instead of attempting to write about something he knows nothing about.

Now that's some awesome TT hypocrisy right there. Well done. Lol.

Telepatic
03-01-2012, 08:18 AM
Perhaps they are all doping, although the clearest example to me would be Djokovic, not Nadal, who suddenly went from a career #3, to unbeatable, please, if that's not apparent, then what is.

For someone being #3 behind Fedal continuously since 2007, I'd found it weird if he didn't became #1 at some point really.

Well, top 4 is dominant for some time now, if one takes something then they all do.

sureshs
03-01-2012, 08:23 AM
LOL in tennis you cannot improve your serve on demand by doping.

Simple answer is that he was using a better technique but has now gone back to his old habits.

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-01-2012, 08:29 AM
LOL in tennis you cannot improve your serve on demand by doping.

Simple answer is that he was using a better technique but has now gone back to his old habits.

True, but you could improve recovery time if your "better technique" caused damage to your body. I mean blood spinning, although legal, is really just concentrating self produced HGH and applying it to an injury to speed up recovery. To me that is a bit different than taking anti-inflammatories.

DjokovicForTheWin
03-01-2012, 08:36 AM
LOL in tennis you cannot improve your serve on demand by doping.

Simple answer is that he was using a better technique but has now gone back to his old habits.

Tell that to Leon Spinks.

jokinla
03-01-2012, 08:37 AM
For someone being #3 behind Fedal continuously since 2007, I'd found it weird if he didn't became #1 at some point really.

Well, top 4 is dominant for some time now, if one takes something then they all do.

Yes, I agree it's not unusual that he became #1, even though those two were extremely dominant, but the way he became #1, it wasn't a gradual progression, it was almost instantaneous, and suddenly he couldn't lose a match.

sureshs
03-01-2012, 08:37 AM
True, but you could improve recovery time if your "better technique" caused damage to your body. I mean blood spinning, although legal, is really just concentrating self produced HGH and applying it to an injury to speed up recovery. To me that is a bit different than taking anti-inflammatories.

Recovery time has nothing to do with serving with a better technique. There is a video which shows a consultant coach showing him the problems in his serve (arm at an angle) and how to correct it, which he did. He could not sustain this form, which shows that even pros fall back to old habits.

And where did HGH and blood spinning come into play here?

The journalists have to write this otherwise they have no jobs in this era of blogs and instant information. Their journalism majors are not in demand any more and magazines and papers are saving money by using high school and college students as "citizen journalists."

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-01-2012, 08:51 AM
Recovery time has nothing to do with serving with a better technique. There is a video which shows a consultant coach showing him the problems in his serve (arm at an angle) and how to correct it, which he did. He could not sustain this form, which shows that even pros fall back to old habits.

And where did HGH and blood spinning come into play here?

The journalists have to write this otherwise they have no jobs in this era of blogs and instant information. Their journalism majors are not in demand any more and magazines and papers are saving money by using high school and college students as "citizen journalists."

If his new technique put added stress on his shoulder, ligaments, etc..... then there are some banned substances that could aid in the healing of injuries to those ligaments.

And a big "REAL SLAM" LOL at what does blood spinning have to do with this conversation. I mean just a GIGANTIC LOL.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-1291359/Ruthless-Rafa-Nadal-driven-pain-barrier-desire-stay-No1.html

I guess you don't remember who had a bit of blood spinning done?

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-01-2012, 08:57 AM
Here is an interesting take on the Braun situation.

http://deadspin.com/5869473/victor-conte-says-ryan-brauns-test-result-is-exactly-what-youd-expect-from-fast+acting-testosterone-not-anabolic-steroids

Granted Conte is less than stellar in terms of reputation, he sure seemed to nail down the only loopholes that Braun could use. Makes me wonder how many other sports could be using "fast acting testoterone?" It would seem the only way to combat this would be to exponentially increase the amount of testing each player goes through as well as randomized tests. Doping testing in tennis seems far to laxed when drugs like this are floating around.

There are also other substances which aren't band that give similar effects to HGH. Deer antler velvet for instance.

sureshs
03-01-2012, 09:00 AM
If his new technique put added stress on his shoulder, ligaments, etc..... then there are some banned substances that could aid in the healing of injuries to those ligaments.


And when Federer improved his BH with more top spin instead of slicing all the time, that could also put added stress, so he is also a candidate for doping.

Do you realize how absurd you sound, with Nadal hate becoming so obvious?

NLBwell
03-01-2012, 09:03 AM
The ESPN writer obviously knows nothing about tennis.

slal1984
03-01-2012, 09:06 AM
He knows nothing...i am laughing at how ridiculous his comparisons are....does the mean if kobe bryant who averages 28 points per game has a 60point game he is doping? Or if a quarterback who averages 250 yards/game throws for 430 yards..he is doping.

Murrayfan31
03-01-2012, 09:10 AM
Finally someone calls him out. He is definitely taking something. Just look at those bulky arms. Not typical of a tennis player.

slal1984
03-01-2012, 09:18 AM
Finally someone calls him out. He is definitely taking something. Just look at those bulky arms. Not typical of a tennis player.

If you look at all the spanish players (Verdasco, Ferrer, Lopez) in the top 20. They are all ripped...8-9% body fat. Its the way they train and their workout routine that leads to them developing these muscles.
For Nadal have you seen how much spin he puts on the ball...he needs to have the strongest wrist, forearm, biscep and sholder muscles to be able to put over 4000rpm on the ball.

Also just because someone has big biceps does not mean that person is strong. Looks don't mean anything in tennis..

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-01-2012, 09:22 AM
And when Federer improved his BH with more top spin instead of slicing all the time, that could also put added stress, so he is also a candidate for doping.

Do you realize how absurd you sound, with Nadal hate becoming so obvious?

Ah yes because his backhand isn't what it once was. Aslo the serve puts much more stress on ones body.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/397825-shoulder-pain-from-serving-in-tennis/

http://www.artsportsdoc.com/Tennis.html

Federer sure could be doping. Just about anyone could be doping in professional sports. Also, Nadal has a history of shoulder injuries.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=nadal+shoulder+injury+2010&pbx=1&oq=nadal+shoulder+injury+2010&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=7873l9181l1l9482l5l5l0l0l0l0l124l537l1.4l5l 0&gs_l=hp.3...7873l9181l1l9483l5l5l0l0l0l0l124l537l1 j4l5l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=ba31447a30ed0e2&biw=1676&bih=933

Oh and injuries against bananas also. Nadal has decided to emulate Silvio Berlusconi's attempt to ban garlic from restaurants by banning bananas from all the "5" slams.

Rozroz
03-01-2012, 09:23 AM
Finally someone calls him out. He is definitely taking something. Just look at those bulky arms. Not typical of a tennis player.

Murray might be next on the list, ha ha :P

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-01-2012, 09:23 AM
If you look at all the spanish players (Verdasco, Ferrer, Lopez) in the top 20. They are all ripped...8-9% body fat. Its the way they train and their workout routine that leads to them developing these muscles.
For Nadal have you seen how much spin he puts on the ball...he needs to have the strongest wrist, forearm, biscep and sholder muscles to be able to put over 4000rpm on the ball.

Also just because someone has big biceps does not mean that person is strong. Looks don't mean anything in tennis..

And steroids don't always equate to being ripped. How many cyclists are ripped?

Clarky21
03-01-2012, 09:32 AM
Finally someone calls him out. He is definitely taking something. Just look at those bulky arms. Not typical of a tennis player.


Have you seen the size of Murray's legs dude? They are freaking tree trunks. He must be doping too then,huh? :lol:

There are several players bigger than Nadal on the tour. Besides,Nadal is really not that big at all. He has a slim athletic build,and is not The Incredible Hulk people make him out to be.

SLD76
03-01-2012, 10:00 AM
Have you seen the size of Murray's legs dude? They are freaking tree trunks. He must be doping too then,huh? :lol:

There are several players bigger than Nadal on the tour. Besides,Nadal is really not that big at all. He has a slim athletic build,and is not The Incredible Hulk people make him out to be.


I strongly suspect murray as well, namely because he is one the more whinier players when it comes to testing.

volleygirl
03-01-2012, 10:13 AM
He knows nothing...i am laughing at how ridiculous his comparisons are....does the mean if kobe bryant who averages 28 points per game has a 60point game he is doping? Or if a quarterback who averages 250 yards/game throws for 430 yards..he is doping.


Horrible comparisons. What if a pitcher goes from throwing 90 mph to throwing 98 and being unhittable? (Eric Gagne) or if a hitter goes from hitting 30+ HRs a year to hitting 73? Barry Bonds

vive le beau jeu !
03-01-2012, 10:14 AM
http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/bryant-120229/the-ryan-braun-alberto-contador-drug-cases-reopen-old-wounds

Wouldn't surprise me if Nadal indulges in a bit of 'libel tourism' at the High Court in London.

In any other universe, even though he has never been linked to performance enhancers and has never failed a drug test, Nadal and tennis would be at the center of the doping question. The game has become more powerful, more physical and more grueling, most recently evidenced by the epic five-hour, 53-minute Australian Open final between Nadal and Novak Djokovic. Big servers such as Canada's Milos Raonic, America's John Isner, Croatia's Ivo Karlovic and Argentina's Juan Martin del Potro routinely top 135 mph. Nadal, never a big server, won the 2010 U.S. Open over Djokovic because, for two weeks, he did something he'd never done before: He became a big server, adding roughly 20 mph on average to his serve -- the equivalent of a low-90s pitcher hitting 98 on the gun. Nadal hit 130 mph on the radar gun during that championship fortnight, and attributed the increase to a grip change to continental. But he'd never reached that velocity before, and hasn't done it consistently since.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QCFP2HnP3R8/TdWjwVp8ccI/AAAAAAAABsc/jEoUatlpKKk/s1600/quely.com+2011-5-19+19-14-46.png
"mucho mas que galletas..."
at that period he was doping a little, LOL
http://cornedbeefhash.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/rafael-nadal-big-biceps.jpg?w=450
these pics are just amazing ! :)

Towser83
03-01-2012, 10:18 AM
It was about 8 mph I think on average compared to the previous US Open, not 10 - 20 mph. I'm guessing his serve speeds are reasonably constant at Wimbledon and the AO so in short, 10 - 20mph is an exaggeration.

Yeah a big exaggeration. 20mph? :lol:

celoft
03-01-2012, 10:20 AM
http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/bryant-120229/the-ryan-braun-alberto-contador-drug-cases-reopen-old-wounds

Wouldn't surprise me if Nadal indulges in a bit of 'libel tourism' at the High Court in London.

In any other universe, even though he has never been linked to performance enhancers and has never failed a drug test, Nadal and tennis would be at the center of the doping question. The game has become more powerful, more physical and more grueling, most recently evidenced by the epic five-hour, 53-minute Australian Open final between Nadal and Novak Djokovic. Big servers such as Canada's Milos Raonic, America's John Isner, Croatia's Ivo Karlovic and Argentina's Juan Martin del Potro routinely top 135 mph. Nadal, never a big server, won the 2010 U.S. Open over Djokovic because, for two weeks, he did something he'd never done before: He became a big server, adding roughly 20 mph on average to his serve -- the equivalent of a low-90s pitcher hitting 98 on the gun. Nadal hit 130 mph on the radar gun during that championship fortnight, and attributed the increase to a grip change to continental. But he'd never reached that velocity before, and hasn't done it consistently since.


NID...............................

SheDevil
03-01-2012, 10:28 AM
Perhaps they are all doping, although the clearest example to me would be Djokovic, not Nadal, who suddenly went from a career #3, to unbeatable, please, if that's not apparent, then what is.

Hmmm, the un-injurable Federer perhaps? Perplexing his lack of injuries throughout his career. :-?

NLBwell
03-01-2012, 06:20 PM
Hmmm, the un-injurable Federer perhaps? Perplexing his lack of injuries throughout his career. :-?

Use of steroids (at least many types) is associated with higher injury rates. The muscles can be made stronger, but the ligaments and tendons aren't enhanced and so get overloaded and injured.

OddJack
03-01-2012, 06:27 PM
His 2010 win is under huge question mark. espn has a point. But still, until proven guilty these are all speculations.

swordtennis
03-01-2012, 06:29 PM
at that period he was doping a little, LOL
http://cornedbeefhash.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/rafael-nadal-big-biceps.jpg?w=450

LMAO this is awesome funny Brah! :)

Thats right nadalitos (thats a funny nicname!) run along this heres a man thread....
Opened the can of worms when gone accussin Djokovic of Juicing!

aprilfool
03-01-2012, 06:39 PM
Hmmm, the un-injurable Federer perhaps? Perplexing his lack of injuries throughout his career. :-?

Run along now, Rafalito...

LeeD
03-01-2012, 06:42 PM
Don't all pro sports people take drugs to enhance their recovery time?
We did in 1964, high school sports.

swordtennis
03-01-2012, 07:09 PM
Don't all pro sports people take drugs to enhance their recovery time?
We did in 1964, high school sports.

PED's go back to the Ancient Olympics!
Interesting history.

OddJack
03-01-2012, 07:36 PM
Rafa is screwed.

As if it was not enough to get spanked by Djoker, now left and right they are grilling his already burnt *** with accusations.

May God give his fans peace and tolerance.

MichaelNadal
03-01-2012, 07:46 PM
Rafa is screwed.

As if it was not enough to get spanked by Djoker, now left and right they are grilling his already burnt *** with accusations.

May God give his fans peace and tolerance.

Rafa inspires the haters like no one else.

Jonny S&V
03-01-2012, 08:25 PM
Rafa inspires the haters like no one else.

Rafa inspires us (well, me in particular) to look at the system as a whole, given Rafa's ridiculous athleticism, and put a HUGE question mark over the entire tour. I find it very naive to think that there isn't doping on the tour. I can almost guarantee you that most everyone is using a PED of some sort (yes, even the great Federer probably does), and to think otherwise by writing it off as their training? That baffles me...

As for the gluten-free diet dealeo and Djokovic, comparing his maladies and injuries pre-diet to someone with a gluten intolerance, Djoker's improvements could very well have come from this diet change. Did PEDs help? That's very possible. However, it's just as likely that he was already taking PEDs, but was not getting the most out of them because of his gluten-intolerance.

Tony48
03-01-2012, 08:44 PM
Yes, I agree it's not unusual that he became #1, even though those two were extremely dominant, but the way he became #1, it wasn't a gradual progression, it was almost instantaneous, and suddenly he couldn't lose a match.

Gradual progression? He was No. 3 for FOREVER. Was he supposed to hang out at the No. 2 spot for 10 years or something? There were two places for him to go: No. 2 and No. 1. He had already beaten Nadal and Fed before (MULTIPLE times), he already had a slam.....not sure how more "gradual" you expected him to be.

It's always suspicious whenever it's not FEDERER doing the one dominating. His fans were long overdue for a rude awakening. The world does not revolve around Federer. Tennis existed before him, and it will CONTINUE to exist long after he is gone. Djokovic is obviously in the era will come come after Fedal and has been knocking on the door for quite some time. He was the youngest player to ever make all semi-finals of all grand slams.....and you say this was INSTANTANEOUS? Maybe you just haven't been paying close enough attention. It was fine and dandy when he stayed in his "place" at number 3 but once he matured and knocked Federer and Nadal off of their thrones, you get suspicious? You should have been worried a long time ago.

And as for not being able to lose a match: he lost every tournament after the U.S. Open. Your thoughts?

MichaelNadal
03-01-2012, 08:58 PM
Rafa inspires us (well, me in particular) to look at the system as a whole, given Rafa's ridiculous athleticism, and put a HUGE question mark over the entire tour. I find it very naive to think that there isn't doping on the tour. I can almost guarantee you that most everyone is using a PED of some sort (yes, even the great Federer probably does), and to think otherwise by writing it off as their training? That baffles me...

As for the gluten-free diet dealeo and Djokovic, comparing his maladies and injuries pre-diet to someone with a gluten intolerance, Djoker's improvements could very well have come from this diet change. Did PEDs help? That's very possible. However, it's just as likely that he was already taking PEDs, but was not getting the most out of them because of his gluten-intolerance.

These are the best tennis players in the world though, that's just it. They are SUPPOSED to be that good. It doesn't mean they are doping.

ZeroSkid
03-01-2012, 10:05 PM
here is why Nadal had such a huge serve at the US Open: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GljqJv84tTI&feature=plcp&context=C37ca687UDOEgsToPDskL-iIi3Au0a89m1_t633ZqK

jokinla
03-01-2012, 11:16 PM
Hmmm, the un-injurable Federer perhaps? Perplexing his lack of injuries throughout his career. :-?

If you've followed steroids and players over the years, you've seen them get injured more often, rather than miraculously stay injury free, having said that, Fed could easily be doping.

jokinla
03-01-2012, 11:20 PM
Gradual progression? He was No. 3 for FOREVER. Was he supposed to hang out at the No. 2 spot for 10 years or something? There were two places for him to go: No. 2 and No. 1. He had already beaten Nadal and Fed before (MULTIPLE times), he already had a slam.....not sure how more "gradual" you expected him to be.

It's always suspicious whenever it's not FEDERER doing the one dominating. His fans were long overdue for a rude awakening. The world does not revolve around Federer. Tennis existed before him, and it will CONTINUE to exist long after he is gone. Djokovic is obviously in the era will come come after Fedal and has been knocking on the door for quite some time. He was the youngest player to ever make all semi-finals of all grand slams.....and you say this was INSTANTANEOUS? Maybe you just haven't been paying close enough attention. It was fine and dandy when he stayed in his "place" at number 3 but once he matured and knocked Federer and Nadal off of their thrones, you get suspicious? You should have been worried a long time ago.

And as for not being able to lose a match: he lost every tournament after the U.S. Open. Your thoughts?

He showed signs of brilliance 3 years prior in winning the Aussie, and then immediately went back to, career #3, unable to beat Roddick and many others on tour, only beating Rafa and Fed at lesser events, yet unable to beat them at majors, and then suddenly last year wins everything, no, his rise to #1 wasn't gradual, it was immediate.

jokinla
03-01-2012, 11:22 PM
Gradual progression? He was No. 3 for FOREVER. Was he supposed to hang out at the No. 2 spot for 10 years or something? There were two places for him to go: No. 2 and No. 1. He had already beaten Nadal and Fed before (MULTIPLE times), he already had a slam.....not sure how more "gradual" you expected him to be.

It's always suspicious whenever it's not FEDERER doing the one dominating. His fans were long overdue for a rude awakening. The world does not revolve around Federer. Tennis existed before him, and it will CONTINUE to exist long after he is gone. Djokovic is obviously in the era will come come after Fedal and has been knocking on the door for quite some time. He was the youngest player to ever make all semi-finals of all grand slams.....and you say this was INSTANTANEOUS? Maybe you just haven't been paying close enough attention. It was fine and dandy when he stayed in his "place" at number 3 but once he matured and knocked Federer and Nadal off of their thrones, you get suspicious? You should have been worried a long time ago.

And as for not being able to lose a match: he lost every tournament after the U.S. Open. Your thoughts?

And perhaps you need some therapy for your hatred towards Fed, he's not really that evil.

tacou
03-02-2012, 04:11 AM
@Nadal's 2010 USO serve; how does doping add mphs to your serve??

Serious question. Nadal is jacked, it's not like it's strength he's lacking in the serve department, it's just more natural for his motion to spin the ball in... so what drug do you take that adds +8 to your serve?

SLD76
03-02-2012, 04:36 AM
Here is an interesting take on the Braun situation.

http://deadspin.com/5869473/victor-conte-says-ryan-brauns-test-result-is-exactly-what-youd-expect-from-fast+acting-testosterone-not-anabolic-steroids

Granted Conte is less than stellar in terms of reputation, he sure seemed to nail down the only loopholes that Braun could use. Makes me wonder how many other sports could be using "fast acting testoterone?" It would seem the only way to combat this would be to exponentially increase the amount of testing each player goes through as well as randomized tests. Doping testing in tennis seems far to laxed when drugs like this are floating around.

There are also other substances which aren't band that give similar effects to HGH. Deer antler velvet for instance.


what in the sam hell kind of brave new world are we living in????

Cesc Fabregas
03-02-2012, 05:04 AM
Take the guy to court then throw away the key.

SLD76
03-02-2012, 05:07 AM
Take the guy to court then throw away the key.

Remember when Rafa was gonna sue that french newspaper after the Operacion Puerta scandal broke out and they said that there were tennis players on dr. Infantes client list, one of them possibly Nadal?


Me either, cuz he didnt.

Jonny S&V
03-02-2012, 06:59 AM
These are the best tennis players in the world though, that's just it. They are SUPPOSED to be that good. It doesn't mean they are doping.

If I know that minor-league (Challenger/Futures level) players are doping, then what are the odds that the best are doping as well? Extremely high. Steroids work very, very well, and if you can get by the drug testing (which is not very difficult, as the dopers are always three-steps ahead of the testing), then why not use them? This isn't a matter of ethics, this is a matter of keeping up with the pack.

Rozroz
03-02-2012, 07:08 AM
If I know that minor-league (Challenger/Futures level) players are doping

you know that for a fact, buddy boy? ;)
can you prove it?

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-02-2012, 07:08 AM
Fast acting testosterone. Most players won't use anabolic steroids. Fast acting testosterone can only be detected within a very short time frame. Unless by chance they show up at 4 AM after a marathon match and the player has just started to apply it, it's highly unlikely they'd get caught.

cknobman
03-02-2012, 07:27 AM
at that period he was doping a little, LOL
http://cornedbeefhash.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/rafael-nadal-big-biceps.jpg?w=450

One of the funniest pics I've ever seen on this board.

It wins the "my new avatar" pic award!!!!!!!!!

Rozroz
03-02-2012, 07:31 AM
One of the funniest pics I've ever seen on this board.

It wins the "my new avatar" pic award!!!!!!!!!

i knew my google digging wasn't in vein :)

Jonny S&V
03-02-2012, 08:47 AM
you know that for a fact, buddy boy? ;)
can you prove it?

Can I prove it with hard evidence? No, I'd have to take a video of them ingesting/injecting the PED for that to happen. Do I know a few former top 300 players who have said so? Yes. Therefore, you're just gonna have to take my word.

jokinla
03-02-2012, 09:17 AM
Can I prove it with hard evidence? No, I'd have to take a video of them ingesting/injecting the PED for that to happen. Do I know a few former top 300 players who have said so? Yes. Therefore, you're just gonna have to take my word.

Wayne Odesnik and Robert Kendrick were both suspended for doping issues.

axel89
03-02-2012, 02:23 PM
no offence but how do you get ur serve up 20 miles per hour for one 2 week period . He never does it again also so im called drugs

LeeD
03-02-2012, 02:27 PM
Swing.
Nadal used to, and now serves for placement, topspin, and first serve efficientcy.
He toyed with the idea of flattening out his serve for a little while.
Any server who hits 115 with topspin can flatten it out to 130 hitting flat and going for winners off his serve.
Witness little MichaelChang. His average serve speed is not close to 95. Then in the French, after he has won it 2 years before, he hits 127 or so.

AM95
03-02-2012, 02:49 PM
It was about 8 mph I think on average compared to the previous US Open, not 10 - 20 mph. I'm guessing his serve speeds are reasonably constant at Wimbledon and the AO so in short, 10 - 20mph is an exaggeration.

i don't have the stats but i'd have to disagree. i remember seeing him serve 130-132 and was ridiculously surprised. he could barely clear 120 on average before the uso. not saying it was PED's, but it def. wasn't a grip change. besides..lets use logic - what pro would ever change their service grip two weeks before a slam?

jokinla
03-02-2012, 04:59 PM
His serve never jumped 20 mph, perhaps 10 at the most.

Mustard
03-02-2012, 05:55 PM
yes, i find that us open 10 serve thing fishy as well.

Not at all. He also used it in winning 2010 Tokyo and as late as 2011 Indian Wells. Doing that serve troubled his shoulder, not to mention the scene of a ridiculous collapse in first serve percentage in the last two sets of that 2011 Indian Wells final, as low as 20%.

swordtennis
03-02-2012, 06:08 PM
There is no Hate of Nadal here.
Gotta love tha big lug.

Confusion!
It is awesome and Nadal and Team are getting the job done.
This is one of the best threads ever.
2010 USO Nadal was at absolute peak unbeatable IMO.

TheTruth
03-02-2012, 07:10 PM
Rafa inspires the haters like no one else.

Which is what makes him even more awesome. Hate is inspired by insecurity.

Param
03-02-2012, 07:34 PM
The lack of positive results in drug tests doesn't guarantee anything nowadays. Lance Amstrong never failed a drug test for his first 7 titles. Florence Griffith joiner never failed a drug test but died of drug abuse complications. Whether we like it or not, the usage of PEDs and HGHs are high in any sport now and they also know how to make cocktails to pass it safely through WADA. We as fans would be greatly disappointed after sevral years when they cheakily come out in the open through their memoirs.

Bobby Jr
03-02-2012, 07:49 PM
Yeah, as Param said above, a lack of drug test failures amongst eventually caught (or admitted) PED users historically shows how ineffective they often are. As with EPO and Growth Hormone use in their earlier days, those who could source them basically couldn't get caught with whatever the current tests were.

The best PEDs are generally a step ahead of the testing regime. It's rare that the testing methodology is kept entirely secret (for disclosure/reliability/consistency reasons) so creating a substance which has circumventing that test as part of its design is also a key aim of the PED creation process.

Sentinel
03-02-2012, 08:08 PM
Rafa inspires the haters like no one else.

Which is what makes him even more awesome. Hate is inspired by insecurity.
So are you saying Rafa is insecure ?

Please stop this character assassination of Rafito!

sureshs
03-03-2012, 12:34 PM
The lack of positive results in drug tests doesn't guarantee anything nowadays. Lance Amstrong never failed a drug test for his first 7 titles. Florence Griffith joiner never failed a drug test but died of drug abuse complications. Whether we like it or not, the usage of PEDs and HGHs are high in any sport now and they also know how to make cocktails to pass it safely through WADA. We as fans would be greatly disappointed after sevral years when they cheakily come out in the open through their memoirs.

Above is definitive proof of Nadal's doping. With such a high degree of certainty, why is he still allowed to play?

DjokovicForTheWin
03-03-2012, 12:40 PM
Above is definitive proof of Nadal's doping. With such a high degree of certainty, why is he still allowed to play?

Whyyyyyyyy??? Uncle Toni owns has financial stakes in the ATP.

President
03-03-2012, 12:53 PM
i don't have the stats but i'd have to disagree. i remember seeing him serve 130-132 and was ridiculously surprised. he could barely clear 120 on average before the uso. not saying it was PED's, but it def. wasn't a grip change. besides..lets use logic - what pro would ever change their service grip two weeks before a slam?

If Nadal can serve 115 with heavy spin, then I think he can serve 130 relatively flat. What makes you think that it can't be a grip change? What else could it be? No PED is going to have an effect like that in 2 weeks...

sureshs
03-03-2012, 01:10 PM
If Nadal can serve 115 with heavy spin, then I think he can serve 130 relatively flat. What makes you think that it can't be a grip change? What else could it be? No PED is going to have an effect like that in 2 weeks...

LOL the posters who think that should try it out themselves - get some PEDs and see if their first serve goes up from their usual 53 mph to 56 mph or not LOL and then post the before and after numbers here

kishnabe
03-03-2012, 02:18 PM
If Nadal can serve 115 with heavy spin, then I think he can serve 130 relatively flat. What makes you think that it can't be a grip change? What else could it be? No PED is going to have an effect like that in 2 weeks...

I agree it was a grip change, the trophy position was more compact and upright. More open faced racquet......

Not surprising.....Nadal can serve 130 mph+. Hard to rewire an old program to something new. It must have worked for a few weeks, and the body didn't like the change.

Maybe that why he rarely uses the flat serve or maybe he rather use a spiny serve.

The flatter serve gives him more cheap points, and he wouldn't go for it unless he is feeling confident. Nadal rather rely on his baseline prowess....from a better placed serve to start a point.

I don't think Nadal is doping till proven otherwise.

cork_screw
03-03-2012, 06:12 PM
Even though nobody can prove it, we all know he did. He doesn't do it anymore, but just look at some old photos of him 2005-2008. The dude was on roids, no doubt.

Mustard
03-03-2012, 06:14 PM
Even though nobody can prove it, we all know he did. He doesn't do it anymore, but just look at some old photos of him 2005-2008. The dude was on roids, no doubt.

Oh, here we go. More ridiculous accusations. You do realise that throwing around unfounded drug accusations destroys the sport's credibility, especially when naming names?

MichaelNadal
03-03-2012, 06:15 PM
Even though nobody can prove it, we all know he did. He doesn't do it anymore, but just look at some old photos of him 2005-2008. The dude was on roids, no doubt.

He's just as big now as he's ever been.

diadorakuerten
03-03-2012, 06:24 PM
For those who are naive enough to think that you're only taking steroids if you get caught, history has shown that it's not always the case. Also I would like you to read this interview with Angel Heredia, who supplied drugs to Marion Jones and many other athletes


"Heredia: With precision. You want an example? Everyone talks about epo. Epo is fashionable. But without adding iron, epo only works half as well. Thatís the kind of thing you have to know. There are oxygen carriers that make epo work incredibly fast Ė they are actually better than epo alone. I call my drug ďEpo Boost.Ē I inject it and it releases many tiny oxygen molecules throughout the body. In that way you increase the effect of epo by a factor of ten.

SPIEGEL (German newspaper): Do you have any other secrets?

Heredia: Oh yes, of course. There are tablets for the kidneys that block the metabolites of steroids, so when athletes give a urine sample, they donít excrete the metabolites and thus test negative. Or there is an enzyme that slowly consumes proteins - epo has protein structures, and the enzyme thus ensures that the B sample of the doping test has a completely different value than the A sample. Then there are chemicals that you take a couple of hours before the race that prevent acidification in the muscles. Together with epo they are an absolute miracle. Iíve created 20 different drugs that are still undetectable for the doping testers."

SPIEGEL: Maurice Greene? The 100 meter superstar Greene is one of the poster athletes of the Olympic movement; he swears he is clean.

Heredia: The investigations are ongoing, but if he maintains he is clean, I can only answer that that is a lie.

SPIEGEL: Can you be more specific?

Heredia: I helped him. I made a schedule for him. I equipped him.

SPIEGEL: Equipped?

Heredia: Yes, we worked together in 2003 and 2004.

SPIEGEL: Do you have receipts?

Heredia: Yes, I have a $10,000 bank transfer receipt, for example.

SPIEGEL: Greene says he spent that money on friends.

Heredia: I know thatís not true.

SPIEGEL: What did Greene, who denies having doped, get from you?

Heredia: IGF-1 and IGF-2, epo and ATP Ė that stands for adenosine triphosphate, which intensifies muscle contraction.

SPIEGEL: Undetectable for testers?

Heredia: Undetectable. Weíve used ointments that do not leave any traces and that enable a consistently high testosterone level in athletes.

SPIEGEL: Is there doping at every level of athletics?

Heredia: Yes, the only difference is the quality of the doping. Athletes with little money use simple steroids and hope they donít get tested. The stars earn 50,000 dollars a month, not including starting bonuses and shoe sponsorship contracts. The very best invest 100,000 dollars Ė Iíll then build you a designer drug that canít be detected.

SPIEGEL: Explain how this works.

Heredia: Designer drugs are composed of several different chemicals that trigger the desired reaction. At the end of the chain I change one or two molecules in such a way that the entire structure is undetectable for the doping testers.

SPIEGEL: Are there still any clean disciplines?

Heredia: Track and field, swimming, cross-country skiing and cycling can no longer be saved. Golf? Not clean either. Soccer? Soccer players come to me and say they have to be able to run up and down the touchline without becoming tired, and they have to play every three days. Basketball players take fat burners Ė amphetamines, ephedrin. Baseball? Haha. Steroids in pre-season, amphetamines during the games. Even archers take downers so that their arm remains steady. Everyone dopes.

SPIEGEL: Did you produce the drugs yourself, or did you simply procure them?

Heredia: I didnít have my own laboratory, I hadÖ letís say access to labs in Mexico City. I purchased and procured the raw materials ...

SPIEGEL: ... from where?

Heredia: Everywhere. Australia, South Africa, Austria, Bulgaria, China. I got growth hormone from the Swiss company Serono. It was never difficult to import it to Mexico, because the laws arenít that strict. You can easily buy it in pharmacies in Mexico. Whenever a new drug was entering the test phase somewhere in the world, we knew about it and we ordered it. Then I combined substances. Sometimes I produced a gel.

SPIEGEL: Did you ever take the doping testers seriously?

Heredia: No, we laughed at them

SPIEGEL: This isnít just an American problem?

Heredia: Are you kidding me? No. All countries, all federations, all top athletes are affected, and among those responsible are the big shoe companies like Nike and Adidas. I know athletes who broke records; a year later they were injured and they got the call: ďWeíre cutting your sponsorship money by 50 percent.Ē What do you think such athletes then do?

SPIEGEL: Tell us what you did for your clients.

Heredia: Athletes hear rumors and they become worried. That the competition has other tricks, that they might get caught when they travel. There is no room for mistakes. One mistake can ruin a career.

SPIEGEL: So you became a therapist for the athletes in matters of drugs?

Heredia: More like a coach. Together we found out what was good for which body and what the decomposition times were. I designed schedules for cocktails and regimens that depended on the money the athletes offered me. Street drugs for little money, designer drugs for tens of thousands. Usually I sent the drugs by mail, but sometimes the athletes came to me.

SPIEGEL: With Marion Jones ...

Heredia: ... it was about the recovery phases. In 2000 she competed in one event after another, and she needed to relax. I gave her epo, growth hormone, adrenaline injections, insulin. Insulin helps after training, together with protein drinks: insulin transports protein and minerals more quickly through the cell membrane.


SPIEGEL: Was there a doping cycle?

Heredia: Yes. When the season ended in October, we waited for a couple of weeks for the body to cleanse itself. Then in November, we loaded growth hormone and epo, and twice a week we examined the body to make sure that no lumps were forming in the blood. Then we gave testosterone shots. This first program lasted eight to ten weeks, then we took a break.

SPIEGEL: And then the goals for the season were established?

Heredia: Yes, that depended on the athlete. Some wanted to run a good time in April to win contracts for the tournaments. Others focused on nothing but the trials, the U.S. qualification for international championships. Others cared only about the Olympics. Then we set the countdown for the goal in question, and the next cycle began. I had to know my athletes well and have an overview of what federation tested with which methods.

SPIEGEL: Where does one get this information?

Heredia: Vigilance. Informers.

Mustard
03-03-2012, 06:32 PM
For those who are naive enough to think that you're only taking steroids if you get caught, history has shown that it's not always the case.

People mention their opinion that Nadal is a drug user, with zero proof, and these accusations affect Nadal's reputation and the reputation of the sport itself. Where does it end? Are these people just going to continue dragging Nadal's and tennis' name through the mud when there is no proof? It's Goebbels style propaganda, repeat a big lie, and keep repeating it time after time, and then some people believe it's the truth.

If they were really serious about anti-doping, they'd mention what the anti-doping authorities should be doing to improve drug testing to make it watertight, instead of dragging the sport and players' names through the mud with zero proof. Some of these people obsessed with anti-doping can't even understand why a sportsman would be annoyed if he has flown half way round the world and is then woken up at 7 o'clock in the morning to take a urine test. Yet they still attack the system themselves and love to witch-hunt, against Nadal in particular.

West Coast Ace
03-03-2012, 06:48 PM
Oh, here we go. More ridiculous accusations. You do realise that throwing around unfounded drug accusations destroys the sport's credibility, especially when naming names?+1. I'm always amazed that armchairs that know nothing about weight training or nutrition (they're Journalism majors!) made silly claims just because they don't think something is possible. Same with ex-pros who can't accept the fact that sports have progressed. Too many of these journalists just make claims to get attention for themselves.

TheTruth
03-03-2012, 08:45 PM
The fact that people make unfounded allegations without any proof is insane. That people believe it without proof speaks more to their own insanity. I don't think most people realize the power of propaganda, and the foolishness in reiterating unfounded information as fact.

There are tons of guys on the tour most muscled than Nadal. Anyone who can't see that has rocks in their head.

BrooklynNY
03-04-2012, 08:53 AM
You are so naive if you think No Failed Test = not PEDing. Cycling testing is MUCH more rigorous, and we see the problems this sport is having. Marion Jones never failed a drug test.

Look at the stats from ITF antidoping testing. The tests are few and far between, and players can miss up to 3 out of competition tests in 18 months before being penalized.

If you actually look closely to the statistics, it's quite easy to see that the test regulations in place are designed NOT to catch people, only catch moronic cheaters.


Keep in mind Wayne Odesknik was caught with HGH by airport security, NOT the ITF. Had Australian customs not been doing their job, Odesnik successfully uses HGH at the tournament.


Also keep in mind Wayne Odesnik makes about 3% of what the top 4 guys earn in $, These guys can have a team of scientists working for them if they desired.

Tennis is a name-driven sport, if they bring Nadal or any top guy down, the sport goes down with it, I'm not accusing anyone, but you'd have to be a child not to think its very well apart of all sporting culture, it's a sad reality, there is way too much money on the line

tudwell
03-04-2012, 09:22 AM
Brooklyn, you nailed it. Sure, Nadal's probably doping, but so are most of the top athletes. It's the nature of modern sports.

sureshs
03-04-2012, 09:30 AM
Brooklyn, you nailed it. Sure, Nadal's probably doping, but so are most of the top athletes. It's the nature of modern sports.

Let us be specific. Is Federer also doping?

swordtennis
03-04-2012, 09:44 AM
Its a twisted, confused and broken world we live in.
The credibility of ALL sports was shot long ago.
Tennis just later on the scene.
Blaming internet poster seeking answers and truth?
McGuire, etc...all have said having the little helper gave that extra pop in your bat.
Whats with this "Oh the Humanity" shock?
The insanity lies more into the minds of so called robots and/or "fans".
Turn off the idiot box and spend some time in the Wilderness grow a beard get dirty.

swordtennis
03-04-2012, 09:50 AM
Let us be specific. Is Federer also doping?

I will argue that Federer needs some treatment.
EPO maybe a little HGH to freshen up his old blood.
He would do mucho better at the Majors.

tudwell
03-04-2012, 09:52 AM
Let us be specific. Is Federer also doping?

I don't know. He doesn't appear to be taking anything that allows for superior muscle growth (and if he does then he must actively avoid training his arms at all, because they are total twigs). He could easily use things to aid his endurance, reaction time, and his general health. He has, after all, avoided any major injuries for his whole career.

BrooklynNY
03-04-2012, 09:53 AM
I'll play the game just because.

Federer has openly spoken about his need/desire to become physically stronger to be able to have the endurance needed to beat a guy like Lleyton Hewitt in 2003-2004.

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com/2012/02/epo-testing-revisited-wrap-up-part-four.html


According to the ITF Doctor quoted in the NYT article. EPO tests are (to the detriment of the integrity of the sport) only administered if a blood screening indicates that a player MAY be taking. Granted the half life of a PED like EPO is so short that the frequency of testing in tennis would never detect use unless the athlete is a complete fool.

One could try to claim Federer's blood screens indicated he should be tested more than other players.

Or... one could argue that Federer is just the #1 player in the world, so it is natural that he would be subject to higher testing standards by nature of making it to the end of more tournaments than anyone else.


I'm expecting flame for this. His style of play is attacking minded, not necessarily war of attrition/grinding/outlast you/let you beat yourself tennis - like some of the other top guys who've displayed superhuman endurance and strength.... but then again, that means nothing.

BrooklynNY
03-04-2012, 10:06 AM
Added to the fact that the tennis media sounds almost identical to the baseball media in 1998, they are completely looking in the other direction, doing no investigative journalism, and saying things like

"they've raised the sport to an entirely new level"
"the game is more physical and brutal than ever"
"they get tested more than any other sport" when clearly, cycling's testing is more rigorous, and successful (atleast whats told to the public)

ATP/ITF uses a customized version of the WADA standards, much like the MLB, where magically Ryan Braun was exonerated on a technicality....one that didn't even disprove his Positive result, which he hasn't truly disputed.

Smoke and Mirrors. Even Spain's sporting minister has recently gone on record saying there is a PED problem among Spanish sport. Contador had his Tour de France titles stripped from him.

Who knows about Usain Bolt and Michale Phelps, I am a huge Barry Bonds fan, I for one still think the achievements are amazing, as the person still needs to go out and physically do the amazing feat..... but like swordtennis mentions, people often use 'little helpers' to do great things.

CMM
03-04-2012, 10:17 AM
Even Spain's sporting minister has recently gone on record saying there is a PED problem among Spanish sport.

No, that's not what he said.
He had to come out and explain what he meant because that quote was misleading. The problem is with the anti-doping legislation, which didn't allow them to punish the athletes who were found doping.

BULLZ1LLA2.0
03-04-2012, 10:29 AM
Wow, Rafa is going to make a fortune unheard of in tennis history when he sues ESPN :D

BrooklynNY
03-04-2012, 10:31 AM
My apologies, I did not know he had clarified his statement, it's hard to find english media coverage on this issue, it hasn't been very prominent since the skit

stringertom
03-04-2012, 02:19 PM
I will argue that Federer needs some treatment.
EPO maybe a little HGH to freshen up his old blood.
He would do mucho better at the Majors.

Fair Mirka provides all the sustenance required by sexiRogi.

devila
03-04-2012, 02:49 PM
espn giving federina his high. an unheard of idea.

Deathsticks
03-04-2012, 03:24 PM
There are a lot of articles and videos that talk about nadal's "new" serve that arose when it showed at US Open 2010. I believe they are reason enough for his stronger serve. That and his energy and desire for a US Open trophy.

If anyone remembers xstf (tennis teacher from youtube) 's video about Nadal's new serve ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfA3RlAXpdg )
He then uploaded another video about how his serve changed thanks to Oscar Borras. It show the duration and steps Nadal took to achieve that new level of power and the change in motion. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GljqJv84tTI )
I believe it is ignorance that came along this ESPN staffer's implied comment.

swordtennis
03-05-2012, 06:44 PM
There are a lot of articles and videos that talk about nadal's "new" serve that arose when it showed at US Open 2010. I believe they are reason enough for his stronger serve. That and his energy and desire for a US Open trophy.

If anyone remembers xstf (tennis teacher from youtube) 's video about Nadal's new serve ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfA3RlAXpdg )
He then uploaded another video about how his serve changed thanks to Oscar Borras. It show the duration and steps Nadal took to achieve that new level of power and the change in motion. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GljqJv84tTI )
I believe it is ignorance that came along this ESPN staffer's implied comment.

Good Info thanks.
I tend to agree as I never considered a little helper to be the cause of the serve.
Observed was this change in his technique.
Great win USO win for Nadal 2010.

vernonbc
03-06-2012, 05:29 AM
Oscar Borras is a scammer. He tried to do the same thing to Ferrero about ten years ago, claiming he taught him how to serve. Facts are that Borras walked in off the street in 2009 claiming he could teach Rafa how to serve and Toni and Rafa were gracious enough to let him hang around for an hour or so and peddle his nonsense. That video is a highly edited 10 minutes out of the hour he spent with them. He didn't teach Rafa anything new. There is old video of Rafa from years ago showing him using the same motion that this Borras claimed to have taught him. Rafa has always worked on his serve and is continually tweaking it as that is his most unnatural shot.

DjokovicForTheWin
03-06-2012, 05:31 AM
Wow so technically, Oscar Borras won USO2010.

Sentinel
03-06-2012, 06:07 AM
Wow so technically, Oscar Borras won USO2010.
So its not PED's after all.

Phew !

tusharlovesrafa
03-06-2012, 09:10 AM
So its not PED's after all.

Phew !
The dog in your avtar is the same puppy that u used to feed and now it has grown up,right??

Mick
03-06-2012, 11:20 AM
ESPN dares to do this Rafa but they don't dare to do this to Serena (they are both very muscular and have won many titles)

Evan77
03-06-2012, 11:37 AM
don't know. I really don't want to imply anything but I still don't understand how Rafa went from no serve to super serve at the USO 2010.

mattennis
03-06-2012, 11:41 AM
don't know. I really don't want to imply anything but I still don't understand how Rafa went from no serve to super serve at the USO 2010.

That only shows your (lack of) tennis knowledge.

Seriously, is not that difficult to understand that when you trade HUGE spin for a FLAT serve, you are going to serve A LOT faster (and probably way less % of first serves in).

In Wimbledon'11 he served faster (on avergage) than in the US OPEN'10. In Tokyo'10 he served bombs as well, in Indian Wells'11 first serve bombs again in the first set. He has done it many times, but he:

1) started to have sore shoulder
2) that flat serve was not as reliable as his huge spin serve.

swordtennis
03-06-2012, 04:39 PM
That only shows your (lack of) tennis knowledge.
Seriously

I do not agree fully with your accusation in its entirety.
The mystery and confusion and the "peaks" and valleys over Nadals entire career leaves many with questions that continue to pile up.
Leaves much to be desired.
Its not the strawman or these so called "haters makin sh*t up".
Its the behaviors as a whole of Team Nadal.
To completely rule out Blood doping and other PEDs is foolish to say the least.
Personally I believe it is here and might as well regulate it.
Despise lying and having it covered up making tennis fans look like fools.
Fk them.

We are trying to Freshen Federers blood not boil it as Mirka does.
LOL Like me some Mirka.

swordtennis
03-06-2012, 05:01 PM
Added to the fact that the tennis media sounds almost identical to the baseball media in 1998, they are completely looking in the other direction, doing no investigative journalism, and saying things like

"they've raised the sport to an entirely new level"
"the game is more physical and brutal than ever"
"they get tested more than any other sport" when clearly, cycling's testing is more rigorous, and successful (atleast whats told to the public)

ATP/ITF uses a customized version of the WADA standards, much like the MLB, where magically Ryan Braun was exonerated on a technicality....one that didn't even disprove his Positive result, which he hasn't truly disputed.

Smoke and Mirrors. Even Spain's sporting minister has recently gone on record saying there is a PED problem among Spanish sport. Contador had his Tour de France titles stripped from him.

Who knows about Usain Bolt and Michale Phelps, I am a huge Barry Bonds fan, I for one still think the achievements are amazing, as the person still needs to go out and physically do the amazing feat..... but like swordtennis mentions, people often use 'little helpers' to do great things.

Big Barry Bonds Fan.
He had game and grew his body to its maximum potential.
Sit on that plate like a giant the bat a toothpick in his hands pitchers had a hard time getting it by him.
Bonds in his later years enveloped the plate.

mattennis
03-07-2012, 02:10 AM
I do not agree fully with your accusation in its entirety.
The mystery and confusion and the "peaks" and valleys over Nadals entire career leaves many with questions that continue to pile up.
Leaves much to be desired.
Its not the strawman or these so called "haters makin sh*t up".
Its the behaviors as a whole of Team Nadal.
To completely rule out Blood doping and other PEDs is foolish to say the least.
Personally I believe it is here and might as well regulate it.
Despise lying and having it covered up making tennis fans look like fools.
Fk them.

We are trying to Freshen Federers blood not boil it as Mirka does.
LOL Like me some Mirka.

I am not saying Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray,... are not doping. Probably they all are.

What I said is "the Nadal flat serve" as some kind of "mystery" or "proof" that he is doping is plainly stupid (in my opinion).

aphex
03-07-2012, 02:15 AM
Good, factual article.

Rozroz
03-07-2012, 02:24 AM
ESPN dares to do this Rafa but they don't dare to do this to Serena (they are both very muscular and have won many titles)

Serena is not Spanish ;)

SLD76
03-07-2012, 04:13 AM
I do not agree fully with your accusation in its entirety.
The mystery and confusion and the "peaks" and valleys over Nadals entire career leaves many with questions that continue to pile up.
Leaves much to be desired.
Its not the strawman or these so called "haters makin sh*t up".
Its the behaviors as a whole of Team Nadal.
To completely rule out Blood doping and other PEDs is foolish to say the least.
Personally I believe it is here and might as well regulate it.
Despise lying and having it covered up making tennis fans look like fools.
Fk them.

We are trying to Freshen Federers blood not boil it as Mirka does.
LOL Like me some Mirka.

quite true. remember that ridiculous charade by team nadal regarding the serve in the first place?

all these leaks that rafa had something 'special' up his sleeve for the USO.

and then as commentators( especially mac) marvelled at how Rafa magically transformed his serve from workmanlike to Sampraslike..and pondered that Rafa must have been working on it for years and why didnt he use it at other tournaments yadda yadda yadda....team Nadal did the strangest thing Ive ever seen.

Remember the nonsensical buffoonery of rafa going to the commentators booth to show them the new grip he was using?


it was the strangest thing Id ever seen in regards to a player explaining a new element of their game. And like, he was in the booth for a half hour or so demo'ing the new grip.

Now, is all this a smoking gun of guilt? Heck no. But its just strange. And Im sure it has only added to some people's suspicion. Ive never seen any player have this much hype surround an element of their game that they have been working on.

It'd be like djoker hinting he has something 'special' for IW and then majestically unveiling his new serve and volley approach.

Rozroz
03-07-2012, 04:27 AM
Remember nonsensical buffoonery of rafa going to the commentators booth to show him the new grip he was using?

damn i wish there was a video :(
this thing could be hilarious.

aphex
03-07-2012, 04:29 AM
quite true. remember that ridiculous charade by team nadal regarding the serve in the first place?

all these leaks that rafa had something 'special' up his sleeve for the USO.

and then as commentators( especially mac) marvelled at how Rafa magically transformed his serve from workmanlike to Sampraslike..and pondered that Rafa must have been working on it for years and why didnt he use it at other tournaments yadda yadda yadda....team Nadal did the strangest thing Ive ever seen.

Remember nonsensical buffoonery of rafa going to the commentators booth to show him the new grip he was using?


it was the strangest thing Id ever seen in regards to a player explaining a new element of their game. And like, he was in the booth for a half hour or so demo'ing the new grip.

Now, is all this a smoking gun of guilt? Heck no. But its just strange. And Im sure has only added to some people's suspicion. Ive never seen any player have this much hype surround an element of their game that they have been working on.

It'd be like djoker hinting he has something 'special' for IW and then majestically unveiling his new serve and volley approach.

I heard Federer will unveil the newly patented Anti-Nadalon backhand in Indian Wells.
He's been working on it with Luthi for 8 years.

Unfortunately, like all patented "newly modified grips affecting tennis strokes", he is allowed to use it only for one tournament (like Nadal at the USO).

celoft
03-07-2012, 06:13 AM
don't know. I really don't want to imply anything but I still don't understand how Rafa went from no serve to super serve at the USO 2010.

Same here.

Clarky21
03-07-2012, 06:20 AM
Same here.


Do you also not understand how Djesus went from a wheezing weakling to the fittest player on tour in less than a month? He now routinely outlasts the same guy you keep insisting is doped up to his eyeballs,yet not a peep from you about that. Last time I checked his transformation has been inhuman,and most unlikely without some outside help. How come you never point that out about him(I know the answer,I just want to see if you will actually admit it).

SLD76
03-07-2012, 06:33 AM
Do you also not understand how Djesus went from a wheezing weakling to the fittest player on tour in less than a month? He now routinely outlasts the same guy you keep insisting is doped up to his eyeballs,yet not a peep from you about that. Last time I checked his transformation has been inhuman,and most unlikely without some outside help. How come you never point that out about him(I know the answer,I just want to see if you will actually admit it).

Please, we know both djoker and Rafa are doping.

But the irony of Rafa fans complaining about Djoker's transformation never gets old.


Honestly, I think the 2010 USO was the straw that broke the djoker's back. Watching rafa play a clay court game at the USO, blasting winners from 10 feet behind the baseline and getting everything back without getting tired....I think that's what made djoker go to the dark side.


Its funny how now you can start to say the same thing about both players:

1) Rafa is the most injured top player in the history of the game yet he somehow manages to struggle thru, demolishing opponents and winning titles all while hurt with one thing or another

2) djoker is the most cardio challenged top player in the history of the game, but he somehow managed to win tournaments even while barely being able to breathe. of course now, he has no fitness or breathing problems anymore


People wondered if Nadal would even be able to play the 09 AO final after his exhausting 5 sets with Verdasco....we know how that final turned out.

People wondered if Djoker would be able to compete in the '12 AO final after 2 back to back grind fest matches with Ferrer and Murray.....we know how that 6 hr brutal marathon turned out.

I believe that djoker was always the more skilled player, but was held back by physical limitations.

Now that his limitations are behind him.....see what medical science hath wrought.

Clarky21
03-07-2012, 06:40 AM
Please, we know both djoker and Rafa are doping.

But the irony of Rafa fans complaining about Djoker's transformation never gets old.


Honestly, I think the 2010 USO was the straw that broke the djoker's back. Watching rafa play a clay court game at the USO, blasting winners from 10 feet behind the baseline and getting everything back without getting tired....I think that's what made djoker go to the dark side.


Its funny how now you can start to say the same thing about both players:

1) Rafa is the most injured top player in the history of the game yet he somehow manages to struggle thru, demolishing opponents and winning titles all while hurt with one thing or another

2) djoker is the most cardio challenged top player in the history of the game, but he somehow managed to win tournaments even while barely being able to breathe. of course now, he has no fitness or breathing problems anymore


People wondered if Nadal would even be able to play the 09 AO final after his exhausting 5 sets with Verdasco....we know how that final turned out.

People wondered if Djoker would be able to compete in the '12 AO final after 2 back to back grind fest matches with Ferrer and Murray.....we know how that 6 hr brutal marathon turned out.

I believe that djoker was always the more skilled player, but was held back by physical limitations.

Now that his limitations are behind him.....see what medical science hath wrought.



Wrong. I have said multiple times that I think they are all on something(Fed included),so that does not apply to me. What makes me laugh is all the Fed fans crying about Nadal doping,but saying nothing about ****'s transformation. Some of you actually relish in it,even though it is the most suspicious increase in performance on the tour. If doping outrages the Fed fans so much,why don't you guys say anything about him? Like I already said,I know the answer to this,but most of you will never admit it.