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View Full Version : If you've already lost 6 times, why not lose 7?


CMM
03-01-2012, 09:30 AM
Rafa gave an interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8qLT8OzG9cY#t=202s) to a Spanish television and when the woman asked him about confidence and his feelings before/during the AO final, what does he say?

"Losing 6 finals in a row gives you a feeling of calmness. You know the normal thing is for this to happen again. If you've already lost 6, why not lose the seventh?

What kind of attitude is that? :shock: :( I think he's got big confidence problems.

http://i41.tinypic.com/auzkon.png

dudeski
03-01-2012, 09:32 AM
https://whyweprotest.net/asset-proxy/01793e33d7f42143595532de0bd6ec97b22be2c0/687474703a2f2f66696c65732e73686172656e61746f722e63 6f6d2f657863656c6c656e745f52455f4d656d65626173655f 35322d73343338783433382d3139323934382d3538302e6a70 67/http://files.sharenator.com/excellent_RE_Memebase_52-s438x438-192948-580.jpg

FlashFlare11
03-01-2012, 09:35 AM
A feeling of calmness? He should be ready to fight! He's basically waiting for the eighth. That's not the Nadal we've come to know.

single_handed_champion
03-01-2012, 09:35 AM
Ya, that really blows. He's a mental wreck, big time. Say that fate has conspired to make you play poorly each of 6 times in a row, that someone's been messing with the tension in your rackets, anything but this.

He may never beat the guy again if he's already lost the match in his head.

EnigmaticPragmatic
03-01-2012, 09:36 AM
This last year has been pure agony as a hardcore *******... and now he basically shrugs his shoulders and admits defeat. Cmon man, fight the Serbian tree :|

And if you have lost 7, why not lose 8? gahh Nadal what are you THINKING

Clarky21
03-01-2012, 09:36 AM
Rafa gave an interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8qLT8OzG9cY#t=202s) to a Spanish television and when the woman asked him about confidence and his feelings before/during the AO final, what does he say?

"Losing 6 finals in a row gives you a feeling of calmness. You know the normal thing is for this to happen again. If you've already lost 6, why not lose the seventh?

What kind of attitude is that? :shock: :( I think he's got big confidence problems. http://i41.tinypic.com/auzkon.png


His career has been plagued by the bolded,and has cost him a lot of matches he should have won. I also think he knows he hasn't got the game to beat Djesus anyway,so he is throwing up his hands in defeat. Nadal is not 20 anymore,and is in decline. As long as Djesus is across the net from him he will lose each and every single time.

Rozroz
03-01-2012, 09:41 AM
going for his defense for a second,
he DID give his life at the AO final..no?
or maybe that's how HE sees giving up?

kishnabe
03-01-2012, 09:41 AM
His career has been plagued by the bolded,and has cost him a lot of matches he should have won. I also think he knows he hasn't got the game to beat Djesus anyway,so he is throwing up his hands in defeat. Nadal is not 20 anymore,and is in decline. As long as Djesus is across the net from him he will lose each and every single time.

Why can't Djokovic have a bad day or throw Nadal a bone in one of the MS events.

EnigmaticPragmatic
03-01-2012, 09:42 AM
His career has been plagued by the bolded,and has cost him a lot of matches he should have won. I also think he knows he hasn't got the game to beat Djesus anyway,so he is throwing up his hands in defeat. Nadal is not 20 anymore,and is in decline. As long as Djesus is across the net from him he will lose each and every single time.

Before April of last year, I'd have said it'll be different the next time they play. Then you start comforting yourself in figuring he'd work something out eventually. 7 consecutive finals defeats later, I can only say that *maybe* it will be different next time.

TennisFan3
03-01-2012, 09:42 AM
What kind of attitude is that? :shock: :( I think he's got big confidence problems.


LOL..are you kidding. That was a great comment by Rafa. That is one of the reasons I admire Nadal. He speaks his mind.

He means there is NOTHING To lose when you're expecting to lose anyway. Which is why subsequent losses are not such a big shock for him and he can play his tennis freely.

This is the only mindset that may help him. Whether it's enough to beat Djoko remains to be seen. But Nadal won't retire or something if he loses RG to Djoko, as people over here claim. Rafa knows he's the heavy underdog.

Let's hope he throws caution to the wind and swings for the fences next time.

Mustard
03-01-2012, 09:44 AM
The point Nadal is trying to make is that he's at the point now where he's past panicking about losing to Djokovic in big matches, like he was in 2011, and that he now has that necessary calmness that is needed.

Nadal likes being the underdog or creating the underdog mentality in his mind. He always has done. He likes to start at zero and fight hard to achieve. Other players have different mental approaches and see themselves as favourite and like to be the favourite. For Nadal, that just creates pressure.

FlashFlare11
03-01-2012, 09:47 AM
That is one of the reasons I admire Nadal. He speaks his mind.

He means there is NOTHING To lose when you're expecting to lose anyway. Which is why subsequent losses are not such a big shock for him and he can play his tennis freely.

This is the only mindset that may help him. Whether it's enough to beat Djoko remains to be seen. But Nadal won't retire or something if he loses RG to Djoko, as people over here claim. Rafa knows he's the heavy underdog.

Let's hope he throws caution to the wind and swings for the fences next time.

I don't necessarily agree here.

While Nadal feels like he can relax, Djokovic is currently dead set on beating Nadal and possibly surpassing him. Nadal cannot play a player that ambitious and that dedicated to winning with relaxed mindset. I think this is what happened to Federer when he faced Nadal, and now the same is happening with Nadal against Djokovic.

CMM
03-01-2012, 09:49 AM
The point Nadal is trying to make is that he's at the point now where he's past panicking about losing to Djokovic in big matches, like he was in 2011, and that he now has that necessary calmness that is needed.

I'm just worried that he might reach the point where the defeats don't bother him anymore.
He already said that he was happy to be part of such an epic final.

monfed
03-01-2012, 09:50 AM
There goes that theory of Ralph closing the gap. :lol:

FlashFlare11
03-01-2012, 09:53 AM
I'm just worried that he might reach the point where the defeats don't bother him anymore.
He already said that he was happy to be part of such an epic final.

Remember Federer after the 2008 Wimbledon final? He didn't care that he was part of the greatest match in tennis history. All he cared for was that he lost. That's it. Nadal needs to realize the same.

Towser83
03-01-2012, 09:56 AM
His career has been plagued by the bolded,and has cost him a lot of matches he should have won. I also think he knows he hasn't got the game to beat Djesus anyway,so he is throwing up his hands in defeat. Nadal is not 20 anymore,and is in decline. As long as Djesus is across the net from him he will lose each and every single time.

To be honest I think of nadal as a guy who's won a lot of matches he should have lost. The amount of times I've seen him somehow pull out a win when he looked out of it, it's something you have to respect. Rome 2005, 2006, Mardid 2009 against Djokovic, the olympic semi vs Djokovic, the AO semi vs Verdasco (ok maybe he could have lost it rather than should have lost)

But now some are going against him. I think though the attitude he's showing now could either mean he no longer has any fight, or that he has no pressure on himself and he can swing freely. I don't think te AO final shows he has no fight, he looked ready to die on court. But it didn't show he had no pressure on him either. So I'm not sure if he isn't just giving an answer to delect difficult questions regarding a losing streak which must be a bit embarrassing.

Mustard
03-01-2012, 09:57 AM
Remember Federer after the 2008 Wimbledon final? He didn't care that he was part of the greatest match in tennis history. All he cared for was that he lost. That's it. Nadal needs to realize the same.

Federer has a different mindset to Nadal, though. Federer likes people to think he is the favourite and he likes to think he's the world's best player. Nadal likes to be the underdog, take nothing for granted and try his best every point. Also, the 2008 Wimbledon final was the first big step Nadal made in breaking the Federer stronghold. Nadal has lost to Djokovic 7 times in a row, so we're now past the point where Djokovic has just taken over from Nadal.

FlashFlare11
03-01-2012, 10:02 AM
Federer has a different mindset to Nadal, though. Federer likes people to think he is the favourite and he likes to think he's the world's best player. Nadal likes to be the underdog, take nothing for granted and try his best every point. Also, the 2008 Wimbledon final was the first big step Nadal made in breaking the Federer stronghold.

That's true. But Nadal still holds his stronghold (RG), so for now, Nadal should still feel confident. Federer, even after losing his stronghold in one of the most amazing matches in history, was determined to win and didn't care about being a part of that match. I'm saying that Nadal should feel the same determination.

niff
03-01-2012, 10:04 AM
That's ..... weird.

monfed
03-01-2012, 10:06 AM
Federer has a different mindset to Nadal, though. Federer likes people to think he is the favourite and he likes to think he's the world's best player. Nadal likes to be the underdog, take nothing for granted and try his best every point. Also, the 2008 Wimbledon final was the first big step Nadal made in breaking the Federer stronghold.

Except that Nadal was never the underdog against Fed after Wimby 2008 when he had his most success.

Underdog against Novak? More like lapdog. :lol:

Mustard
03-01-2012, 10:06 AM
That's true. But Nadal still holds his stronghold (RG), so for now, Nadal should still feel confident. Federer, even after losing his stronghold in one of the most amazing matches in history, was determined to win and didn't care about being a part of that match. I'm saying that Nadal should feel the same determination.

Oh, I'm sure Nadal is determined to win the French Open. The difference with Federer, though, is that Nadal will play down his chances when speaking about it and talk up Djokovic's chances, how Djokovic is unbelievable, world number 1, the favourite etc. and that he (Nadal) will have to play his very best to beat Djokovic. Federer's approach would have been different, as he would have talked about how confident he is, playing very well and that he wants the title. If Nadal did that, he would just be putting pressure on himself. They have different mindsets.

Mustard
03-01-2012, 10:09 AM
Except that Nadal was never the underdog against Fed after Wimby 2008 when he had his most success.

Forgot the 2009 Australian Open, have we? :lol:

purge
03-01-2012, 10:09 AM
Oh, I'm sure Nadal is determined to win the French Open. The difference with Federer, though, is that Nadal will play down his chances when speaking about it and talk up Djokovic's chances, how Djokovic is unbelievable, world number 1, the favourite etc. and that he (Nadal) will have to play his very best to beat Djokovic. Federer's approach would have been different, as he would have talked about how confident he is, playing very well and that he wants the title. If Nadal did that, he would just be putting pressure on himself. They have different mindsets.
well nadal has always fared well with that mindset especially against federer. i dont think he will be quick to change it

Towser83
03-01-2012, 10:20 AM
Forgot the 2009 Australian Open, have we? :lol:

Anyone who really thought Nadal was the underdog was fooling themselves. After W2008 he was never going to lose to Federer in a slam again and as of now, this statement holds true.

Mustard
03-01-2012, 10:22 AM
Anyone who really thought Nadal was the underdog was fooling themselves. After W2008 he was never going to lose to Federer in a slam again and as of now, this statement holds true.

That's nonsense. Everyone was talking about Nadal having just 1 day's rest and had a marathon 5 hour, 14 minute match against Verdasco in his semi final. In contrast, Federer, after a R16 scare against Berdych where he came back from 2 sets down, had crushed del Potro in the quarter finals (double bagel), and had comfortably straight-setted Roddick in the semi finals. Federer also had 2 days rest before the final.

celoft
03-01-2012, 10:23 AM
Rafa gave an interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8qLT8OzG9cY#t=202s) to a Spanish television and when the woman asked him about confidence and his feelings before/during the AO final, what does he say?

"Losing 6 finals in a row gives you a feeling of calmness. You know the normal thing is for this to happen again. If you've already lost 6, why not lose the seventh?

What kind of attitude is that? :shock: :( I think he's got big confidence problems.

http://i41.tinypic.com/auzkon.png

No problema. He knows many more losses are coming up this year. We could see a Federer-Hewitt scenario. :lol: That H2H will look very lopsided pretty soon.

CMM
03-01-2012, 10:24 AM
That's nonsense. Everyone was talking about Nadal having just 1 day's rest and had a marathon 5 hour, 14 minute match against Verdasco in his semi final. In contrast, Federer, after a R16 scare against Berdych where he came back from 2 sets down, had crushed del Potro in the quarter finals (double bagel), and had comfortably straight-setted Roddick in the semi finals. Federer also had 2 days rest before the final.

Funny how much that situation resembles to what happened this year.

DjokovicForTheWin
03-01-2012, 10:25 AM
Oh, I'm sure Nadal is determined to win the French Open. The difference with Federer, though, is that Nadal will play down his chances when speaking about it and talk up Djokovic's chances, how Djokovic is unbelievable, world number 1, the favourite etc. and that he (Nadal) will have to play his very best to beat Djokovic. Federer's approach would have been different, as he would have talked about how confident he is, playing very well and that he wants the title. If Nadal did that, he would just be putting pressure on himself. They have different mindsets.

Exactly right. In other words Fed is honest and Nadal is a liar. 'Play' being the keyword.

TMF
03-01-2012, 10:28 AM
Rafa gave an interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8qLT8OzG9cY#t=202s) to a Spanish television and when the woman asked him about confidence and his feelings before/during the AO final, what does he say?

"Losing 6 finals in a row gives you a feeling of calmness. You know the normal thing is for this to happen again. If you've already lost 6, why not lose the seventh?

What kind of attitude is that? :shock: :( I think he's got big confidence problems.

http://i41.tinypic.com/auzkon.png

Nadal is not being honest. He implies that losing again isn't much of a big deal, but deep down inside he knows that losing again can only add more wound. The only healing process is to get back on his feet and win. He can pretend that he's calm, but he ain't fooling anyone !

Roddick was constantly losing to Fed, despite it was a normal thing for many years, Roddick was devastated when he lost to Fed in 2009 Wimbledon. Nadal is no different from any competitive player.

Mustard
03-01-2012, 10:28 AM
Funny how much that situation resembles to what happened this year.

Nadal had tough matches himself, though, against Berdych and Federer. In 2009, Federer just routinely beat del Potro and Roddick.

merlinpinpin
03-01-2012, 10:29 AM
That's nonsense. Everyone was talking about Nadal having just 1 day's rest and had a marathon 5 hour, 14 minute match against Verdasco in his semi final. In contrast, Federer, after a R16 scare against Berdych where he came back from 2 sets down, had crushed del Potro in the quarter finals (double bagel), and had comfortably straight-setted Roddick in the semi finals. Federer also had 2 days rest before the final.

That's partial nonsense only. Everyone knew that the semi against Verdasco wouldn't be a factor (and wouldn't have been even if it had lasted 15 hours). However, Federer was still expected to win, and he should have (and fairly comfortably, too) had not the specter of the Wimbledon final messed with his mind.

Likewise, he should have won Wimby 2008, and would very probably have done so (his first two sets were just awful) had he not taken such a drubbing in the RG final.

In the end, this RG final was nothing short of a minor miracle, considering how mono has messed with his preparation, and he would have been better served had he lost to Monfils in the semis. That victory may very well have cost him two slams against Nadal, but of course, we'll never know... ;)

TMF
03-01-2012, 10:30 AM
Forgot the 2009 Australian Open, have we? :lol:

Who was the #1 player at that time ?

And have we forgot that Nadal has a huge matchup advantage, have we ?

Mustard
03-01-2012, 10:32 AM
Who was the #1 player at that time ?

And have we forgot that Nadal has a huge matchup advantage, have we ?

Yet Federer was considered the favourite. Funny that.

li0scc0
03-01-2012, 10:35 AM
As long as Djesus is across the net from him he will lose each and every single time.

He is playing the former Phillies shortstop?

Nathaniel_Near
03-01-2012, 10:46 AM
Personally, I think Nadal has been misunderstood here. I think what he is saying is that losing has become the standard, so he has no demons in his mind while playing him and no real pressure and can just focus 100% on trying his absolute best with no mental blocks, and beat El Nolio. I don't think he's trying to marginalise his losses, I just think he's trying to further justify why he can bring it to Nole again and again, and go for the victory. It's just a weird way of doing it, though.

PS, Nadal's mindset is pretty much the one I hate most in the history of all sports. His whole 'he is the favourite' malarkey just really rubs me up more than just the wrong way (not the right way). How some people find this admirable, I have absolutely *no* idea.

above bored
03-01-2012, 10:48 AM
Rafa gave an interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8qLT8OzG9cY#t=202s) to a Spanish television and when the woman asked him about confidence and his feelings before/during the AO final, what does he say?

"Losing 6 finals in a row gives you a feeling of calmness. You know the normal thing is for this to happen again. If you've already lost 6, why not lose the seventh?

What kind of attitude is that? :shock: :( I think he's got big confidence problems.

http://i41.tinypic.com/auzkon.png
All he means is that he becomes the underdog, so he can play without pressure or with calmness, whichever you prefer. Don't take every utterance so literally.

Nathaniel_Near
03-01-2012, 10:48 AM
Federer was rightly the favourite for the AO 2009 Final. He had already won a bunch of HC Slam titles and yet it was Nadal's first ever HC Slam final. Nadal's victory over Federer in Wimbledon 08 had some precedence, but the AO 2009 victory - not so much.

Nathaniel_Near
03-01-2012, 10:49 AM
All he means is that he becomes the underdog, so he can play without pressure or with calmness, whichever you prefer. Don't take every utterance so literally.

Yeh, exactly.

merlinpinpin
03-01-2012, 11:08 AM
All he means is that he becomes the underdog, so he can play without pressure or with calmness, whichever you prefer. Don't take every utterance so literally.

Yeah, well. Except if you listen to him, Nadal is *always* the underdog, even when playing Lacko or Darcis at RG... ;)

Mike Sams
03-01-2012, 11:12 AM
going for his defense for a second,
he DID give his life at the AO final..no?
or maybe that's how HE sees giving up?

He was relying on Djokovic to wilt and break down. It didn't happen. It's what drove Nadal to fight so hard. It was a battle of wills, not skills.
Nadal blinked first at crunch time. It determined who is superior today between the two in every aspect of the sport.

Mike Sams
03-01-2012, 11:14 AM
well nadal has always fared well with that mindset especially against federer. i dont think he will be quick to change it

Nadal always knew Federer was scared of him. Nadal's not an idiot.

Mike Sams
03-01-2012, 11:17 AM
The point Nadal is trying to make is that he's at the point now where he's past panicking about losing to Djokovic in big matches, like he was in 2011, and that he now has that necessary calmness that is needed.

Nadal likes being the underdog or creating the underdog mentality in his mind. He always has done. He likes to start at zero and fight hard to achieve. Other players have different mental approaches and see themselves as favourite and like to be the favourite. For Nadal, that just creates pressure.

You pin the blame on Nadal for his defeatist attitude. Why not put the blame on his trainer Tio Toni???
He was the one who openly said "We have no answers for Djokovic!"
Nadal needs to be done with this guy now.

CMM
03-01-2012, 11:19 AM
Maybe I'm reading too much into it. Although I don't think it's normal for a player to look this happy after losing such a grueling final.

http://i39.tinypic.com/v7qk0.png

MichaelNadal
03-01-2012, 11:34 AM
LOL..are you kidding. That was a great comment by Rafa. That is one of the reasons I admire Nadal. He speaks his mind.

He means there is NOTHING To lose when you're expecting to lose anyway. Which is why subsequent losses are not such a big shock for him and he can play his tennis freely.

This is the only mindset that may help him. Whether it's enough to beat Djoko remains to be seen. But Nadal won't retire or something if he loses RG to Djoko, as people over here claim. Rafa knows he's the heavy underdog.

Let's hope he throws caution to the wind and swings for the fences next time.

The point Nadal is trying to make is that he's at the point now where he's past panicking about losing to Djokovic in big matches, like he was in 2011, and that he now has that necessary calmness that is needed.

Nadal likes being the underdog or creating the underdog mentality in his mind. He always has done. He likes to start at zero and fight hard to achieve. Other players have different mental approaches and see themselves as favourite and like to be the favourite. For Nadal, that just creates pressure.

Exactly. Part of why he got smoked last year is bc he was PANICKING and thinking oh sh*t im losing, and im SUPPOSED to be beating this guy. That pressure is gone now, as we saw in the AO final and it's a good thing for him, not a bad thing.

msc886
03-01-2012, 11:39 AM
As I've said before the "fight" and "mental toughness" is an easy thing to claim when he's in his prime but now things get uphill and where is his mental toughness. Even Federer in his 30's is still fighting despite being way past his best and struggling to keep up with the young guns.

Mike Sams
03-01-2012, 11:41 AM
Exactly. Part of why he got smoked last year is bc he was PANICKING and thinking oh sh*t im losing, and im SUPPOSED to be beating this guy. That pressure is gone now, as we saw in the AO final and it's a good thing for him, not a bad thing.

Keep trying to convince yourself that everything is ok. :lol:

TennisFan3
03-01-2012, 11:54 AM
Keep trying to convince yourself that everything is ok. :lol:

Who says everything is ok. Of course it isn't.

What Nadal is saying that he will keep trying and won't be under a lot of pressure when he plays Djoko coz you're expecting to lose anyway. That's actually a good thing for some people. It doesn't decrease your determination to win, just puts less pressure on you in terms of expectations.

What is guaranteed is that Nadal won't play a tame final with Novak again as he did in Wimb 2011. He was so nervous in that match, because he was expecting himself to win. Consequently he panicked repeatedly and lost badly.

jackson vile
03-01-2012, 11:59 AM
So, he is not as mentally strong as before, his serve is not as big as before, he can no longer hunt down each and every ball like he used to, and how are the rest of his stats?

Rafa gave an interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8qLT8OzG9cY#t=202s) to a Spanish television and when the woman asked him about confidence and his feelings before/during the AO final, what does he say?

"Losing 6 finals in a row gives you a feeling of calmness. You know the normal thing is for this to happen again. If you've already lost 6, why not lose the seventh?

What kind of attitude is that? :shock: :( I think he's got big confidence problems.

http://i41.tinypic.com/auzkon.png

MichaelNadal
03-01-2012, 12:00 PM
Who says everything is ok. Of course it isn't.

What Nadal is saying that he will keep trying and won't be under a lot of pressure when he plays Djoko coz you're expecting to lose anyway. That's actually a good thing for some people. It doesn't decrease your determination to win, just puts less pressure on you in terms of expectations.

What is guaranteed is that Nadal won't play a tame final with Novak again as he did in Wimb 2011. He was so nervous in that match, because he was expecting himself to win. Consequently he panicked repeatedly and lost badly.

http://michaeljacksonanimatedgifs.com/images/others/mjgif236.jpg

FlashFlare11
03-01-2012, 12:02 PM
So, he is not as mentally strong as before, his serve is not as big as before, he can no longer hunt down each and every ball like he used to, and how are the rest of his stats?

When was it ever?

He was serving very well in the AO final. Won a lot of free points on his serve. It's just that when it wasn't an outright great serve, Djokovic got it back with interest.

Hood_Man
03-01-2012, 12:10 PM
It's quite a mature thing for Rafa to say really. I don't think it suggests he's losing his competitive edge, but perhaps this will allow him to get over tough losses a lot easier than he otherwise would. And make his next inevitable win all the sweeter.

It will be better for him in the long run.

Yet Federer was considered the favourite. Funny that.

Plenty of people considered Federer the favourite for this years Australian Open semi though.

Mustard
03-01-2012, 12:30 PM
Plenty of people considered Federer the favourite for this years Australian Open semi though.

But Nadal was still favourite this year. In 2009, he wasn't.

T1000
03-01-2012, 12:33 PM
LOL..are you kidding. That was a great comment by Rafa. That is one of the reasons I admire Nadal. He speaks his mind.
.

Did you really just write that? Nadal doesn't speak his mind at all.

TennisFan3
03-01-2012, 12:44 PM
Did you really just write that? Nadal doesn't speak his mind at all.

He does. One of the MOST brutally honest athletes I have ever seen.

Sometimes it's his own undoing when he goes off about injuries, schedule, underdog status etc etc.

Hood_Man
03-01-2012, 12:47 PM
But Nadal was still favourite this year. In 2009, he wasn't.
According to who though, pundits and commentators? Their job is to create hype and interest, not necessarily provide accurate or useful analysis.

[EDIT]

Case in point, Andrew Castle. Handsome retired male tennis player with a great voice for TV and Radio, but does he do his homework? Bad Andrew, bad!

kragster
03-01-2012, 01:00 PM
I don't necessarily agree here.

While Nadal feels like he can relax, Djokovic is currently dead set on beating Nadal and possibly surpassing him. Nadal cannot play a player that ambitious and that dedicated to winning with relaxed mindset. I think this is what happened to Federer when he faced Nadal, and now the same is happening with Nadal against Djokovic.

Au contraire, I think Federer kept repeating the same game plan thinking that it would work. Nadal is well aware that what he's doing isn't good enough. So he's basically OK with the fact that until he figures a strategy, there is not much he can do.

I actually think that's great for him. Sure, Rafa can redline his game and sneak a few wins vs Djoker. But in the long term, Rafa needs an effective plan rather than relying on playing lights out tennis or Djoker having a subpar day.

To me this shows a lot of maturity and the ability to accept that the status quo plan won't work. It would be a different thing if he said "I can never beat Djoker".

FlashFlare11
03-01-2012, 01:33 PM
Au contraire, I think Federer kept repeating the same game plan thinking that it would work. Nadal is well aware that what he's doing isn't good enough. So he's basically OK with the fact that until he figures a strategy, there is not much he can do.

I actually think that's great for him. Sure, Rafa can redline his game and sneak a few wins vs Djoker. But in the long term, Rafa needs an effective plan rather than relying on playing lights out tennis or Djoker having a subpar day.

To me this shows a lot of maturity and the ability to accept that the status quo plan won't work. It would be a different thing if he said "I can never beat Djoker".
No, I don't think he needs to redline. That doesn't get it done against Djokovic. He needs to outsmart Djokovic because he now knows Nadal's game well enough to beat him no matter what Rafa throws at him. Rafa needs an effective game plan, as you said, and one that would work in the long run. He can't focus on one match or one particular player, especially when you have to beat the field in front of you to even get the chance to play that one player.

It does show maturity that he can accept these losses. But he also came out with a game plan at the AO final. He was close, but it wasn't enough. At this point, it's about outlasting and outsmarting Djokovic. He's an intelligent player who also happens to have the best stamina. That was what Rafa used to beat everyone else, now he's having it done to him. In essence, he needs to figure himself out because Djokovic is "out-Nadaling" Nadal.

Federer was too content with his game to change anything for Nadal specifically. But what Federer was doing was good enough for the rest of the field and he had the luxury of not having to face Nadal in every final (not saying it was any easier for Federer, but the only player who held a match-up advantage against him wasn't really good enough to show up). Now, Nadal has a contemporary rival who is showing up everywhere.

I just want Nadal to show the same fight and passion he did when he was still coming up.

Mike Sams
03-01-2012, 01:36 PM
Who says everything is ok. Of course it isn't.

What Nadal is saying that he will keep trying and won't be under a lot of pressure when he plays Djoko coz you're expecting to lose anyway. That's actually a good thing for some people. It doesn't decrease your determination to win, just puts less pressure on you in terms of expectations.

What is guaranteed is that Nadal won't play a tame final with Novak again as he did in Wimb 2011. He was so nervous in that match, because he was expecting himself to win. Consequently he panicked repeatedly and lost badly.

No. He lost because he was outplayed. Djokovic played perhaps one of the best grass court matches in his career that day.

DjokovicForTheWin
03-01-2012, 01:38 PM
Nadal is the antithesis of honesty in public. It's just lies after lies. I"m not saying it's his fault. It's his team.

Rozroz
03-01-2012, 01:42 PM
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2694/v7qk0.jpg

if THAT looks like a peaceful losing smile to someone, they sure need to re-check their 'putting a smile' catalog..

kragster
03-01-2012, 01:47 PM
No, I don't think he needs to redline. That doesn't get it done against Djokovic. He needs to outsmart Djokovic because he now knows Nadal's game well enough to beat him no matter what Rafa throws at him. Rafa needs an effective game plan, as you said, and one that would work in the long run. He can't focus on one match or one particular player, especially when you have to beat the field in front of you to even get the chance to play that one player.

It does show maturity that he can accept these losses. But he also came out with a game plan at the AO final. He was close, but it wasn't enough. At this point, it's about outlasting and outsmarting Djokovic. He's an intelligent player who also happens to have the best stamina. That was what Rafa used to beat everyone else, now he's having it done to him. In essence, he needs to figure himself out because Djokovic is "out-Nadaling" Nadal.

Federer was too content with his game to change anything for Nadal specifically. But what Federer was doing was good enough for the rest of the field and he had the luxury of not having to face Nadal in every final (not saying it was any easier for Federer, but the only player who held a match-up advantage against him wasn't really good enough to show up). Now, Nadal has a contemporary rival who is showing up everywhere.

I just want Nadal to show the same fight and passion he did when he was still coming up.

I agree but I don't necessarily think Rafa is not passionate. He may be calm during the interview but it's well possible that he's working really hard behind the scenes.

I think Rafa does need to outsmart Djoker, I don't think he can outlast him. Djoker has always been a tremendous athlete except for the breathing issues which are now gone.

I think Rafa's best bet is a game plan that moves Djoker forward rather than side to side. Side to side, Djoker is the best in the business.

DjokovicForTheWin
03-01-2012, 02:10 PM
If Rafa can outsmart Djoker, then why can't djoker do the same back to Rafa?

vive le beau jeu !
03-01-2012, 02:19 PM
Maybe I'm reading too much into it. Although I don't think it's normal for a player to look this happy after losing such a grueling final.

http://i39.tinypic.com/v7qk0.png
if i were a ****, i wouldn't worry too much about this... it's well known that the nadal is a fake-smile GOAT.
but of course, i'd prefer to be wrong... i hope that he genuinely enjoys the beatdowns, and that he will be looking forward to receiving another one, should he meet the djoker.
(1st round losses still being a preferable option, of course)

then... he'd be happy, i'd be happy too... novak too... everybody would be happy !
(aphex... you would be happy too, wouldn't you ?)
see ? i'm only wishing for happiness for everybody ! http://www.lolympien.fr/forums/images/smileysOpiom/beatnik.gifhttp://www.lolympien.fr/forums/images/smileysOpiom/beatnik.gifhttp://www.lolympien.fr/forums/images/smileysOpiom/beatnik.gif

sportsfan1
03-01-2012, 02:23 PM
Well, after losing 7, and across different surfaces, there's not much argument left to be made. I thought Nadal's handling it with as much dignity (at least in public) as he can. His best bet currently is for Fed to take the Djoker out.

OddJack
03-01-2012, 02:41 PM
"what kind of attitude is that"??

Didnt you see him whip his *** to win that match?

Didnt you see he fell on his knees celebrating just to win a set?

What does that tell you? That what he says in his interviews is pure bull.
Attitood? hehe, Nadal knows only one atitoood.

tennis_pro
03-01-2012, 03:23 PM
http://thetennistimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/novak-djokovic-on-who-wants-to-be-a-millionairre.jpg

Mustard
03-01-2012, 03:42 PM
http://thetennistimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/novak-djokovic-on-who-wants-to-be-a-millionairre.jpg

See the 2011 Indian Wells final post-match speeches for confirmation ;)

vive le beau jeu !
03-01-2012, 03:52 PM
http://thetennistimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/novak-djokovic-on-who-wants-to-be-a-millionairre.jpg
he should have asked the audience instead of calling nadal_freak...
(but anyway he's already a millionaire) ;)

rommil
03-01-2012, 04:05 PM
No, I don't think he needs to redline. That doesn't get it done against Djokovic. He needs to outsmart Djokovic


Here lies Raf's problema. He will need the Tio to remind him periodically during play exactly what to do to "outsmart" Nole.

jackson vile
03-01-2012, 04:09 PM
Would you rather have him be delusional like Federer and his ****s. "oh no, everything is just fine. I am in complete control, I am a professional, I know what I am doing. I will decide when I win and lose"


Rafa gave an interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8qLT8OzG9cY#t=202s) to a Spanish television and when the woman asked him about confidence and his feelings before/during the AO final, what does he say?

"Losing 6 finals in a row gives you a feeling of calmness. You know the normal thing is for this to happen again. If you've already lost 6, why not lose the seventh?

What kind of attitude is that? :shock: :( I think he's got big confidence problems.

http://i41.tinypic.com/auzkon.png

Apun94
03-01-2012, 06:03 PM
I think thats the way Nadal was shrugging off pressure off of himself and playing freely. In 2011, he always had the pressure of defeating Jokovic atleast once and defending some of his 2010 titles. In 2012, NOBODY expects him to win against Jokovic and the way he looks at things, it doesnt matter A LOT if he looses another time, becuz he's expected to lose. Thats the only way he can play freely, without pressure. We all saw what happened at the USO 2011 final. He panicked and didnt play freely during most of the match. That changed in the AO 2012 final and that is the reason he took Jokovic to 5.

Apun94
03-01-2012, 06:09 PM
Nadal's mentality b4 the start of the AO final was that he wasnt afraid of the consequences. In other words, he wasnt afraid of losing. I think that if you have that mentality, then you go out there and you play your game freely. You dont hold back and play without fear.
I think this was the only mentality that made Nadal play the way that he did in the final. Hopefully next time he can win the next time Nadal and Jokovic meet...

sonicare
03-01-2012, 06:42 PM
Problem with the "I am expected to lose" mentality is that soon as you he into a winning position, you tighten up and choke. And this is exactly what happened to rafa. That bh pass at 30-15 was concrete proof.

He choked soon as he was in a winning position. In psychology it's called the fear of success.

Lettuce be reality brothrens.

Take 10 weekend warriors and 9 of them will make that shot. Rafa missed though and it was purely because he was thinking "oh ****. I might actually win this match" and he tightened.

IMO rafa really hasnt thought this through.

mandy01
03-01-2012, 07:06 PM
Remember Federer after the 2008 Wimbledon final? He didn't care that he was part of the greatest match in tennis history. All he cared for was that he lost. That's it. Nadal needs to realize the same.Funny but I sometimes wish Roger wasn't so uptight about those loses. Not that he can't get over losses but they seem to play on his mind when he meets Nadal again. He puts himself under too much pressure to beat him. Just play freely. How does it matter anyway when you're 30 and the other guy is just 25?

monfed
03-01-2012, 07:06 PM
Problem with the "I am expected to lose" mentality is that soon as you he into a winning position, you tighten up and choke. And this is exactly what happened to rafa. That bh pass at 30-15 was concrete proof. He choked soon as he was in a winning position.
In psychology it's called the fear of success.


I don't like you as a poster per se(with your inflammatory Tendulkar remarks) but this is the MOST pertinent point of this thread(wish I had made it).
All this "underdog" nonsense needs to be dispensed with.




Lettuce be reality brothrens.

Take 10 weekend warriors and 9 of them will make that shot. Rafa missed though and it was purely because he was thinking "oh ****. I might actually win this match" and he tightened.

IMO rafa really hasnt thought this through.

True. But please do explain to the *******s how exactly Ralph is gonna overcome this mental block?
And I haven't even mentioned that Djokovic played his most subpar HC final (esp that pathetic first set).

sonicare
03-01-2012, 07:23 PM
I don't like you as a poster per se(with your inflammatory Tendulkar remarks) but this is the MOST pertinent point of this thread(wish I had made it).
All this "underdog" nonsense needs to be dispensed with.

Well. Thank you. Just for the record. I think sachin is very good and tier one but a little overrated :). That's all.


True. But please do explain to the *******s how exactly Ralph is gonna overcome this mental block?
And I haven't even mentioned that Djokovic played his most subpar HC final (esp that pathetic first set).

Rafa has a big problem in his hands man. He just can't match djokovic shot for shot.everytime he gets ahead in a rally, all djokovic has to do is go to rafas bh and the point is reset.

add to that the fact that nole's dtl shots on both wings are light years ahead of nadal.

Then we have ros where nole is top 3 all time.

I truly believe that djokovic is the most complete player we have ever had. And I am a self proclaimed *******.

So what I am really saying is that it isn't mental. Djokovic is just a better player right now overall and has 0 matchup issues.

I mean, tell me. What was mental going into iw and Miami last year? Even going onto Madrid, there was no mental block. Heck even Wimbledon should never have been a mental block.

IMO what nadal has done is build a mental defense mechanism to protect himself by saying "it's mental" and is unwilling to accept that he just doesn't have the game.

At least in the fedal rivalry, matches were usually on Feds racket outside of clay. In the djokodal rivalry, matches have never been in nadals racket. Even pre 2011. So federer could beat nadal when he was on. I don't care how "on" nadal is. If he plays the same way, he's losing

Assuming djokovics level doesn't decline, nadal will have to change his game or he loses 9/10 on any surface.

PollyBallGirl
03-01-2012, 07:37 PM
Rafa gave an interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8qLT8OzG9cY#t=202s) to a Spanish television and when the woman asked him about confidence and his feelings before/during the AO final, what does he say?

"Losing 6 finals in a row gives you a feeling of calmness. You know the normal thing is for this to happen again. If you've already lost 6, why not lose the seventh?

What kind of attitude is that? :shock: :( I think he's got big confidence problems.

http://i41.tinypic.com/auzkon.png

I agree with rafael nadalogram. It is best to feel like you are not expected to win. The past losses help. Its a good idea to feel this way instead of putting pressure on self.

Sentinel
03-01-2012, 07:41 PM
Rafa gave an interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8qLT8OzG9cY#t=202s) to a Spanish television and when the woman asked him about confidence and his feelings before/during the AO final, what does he say?

"Losing 6 finals in a row gives you a feeling of calmness. You know the normal thing is for this to happen again. If you've already lost 6, why not lose the seventh?

What kind of attitude is that? :shock: :( I think he's got big confidence problems.


and yet, my dear CMM, when Rogi shrugs off losses you and your ilk call him out for arrogance ! What a lark you guys are !

tenniselbow1
03-01-2012, 07:51 PM
See the 2011 Indian Wells final post-match speeches for confirmation ;)

Lol at thinking, Novak believes Rafa is GOAT or could be GOAT at this stage.

PollyBallGirl
03-01-2012, 07:55 PM
Lol at thinking, Novak believes Rafa is GOAT or could be GOAT at this stage.

Seems good to lose to one player all the time. Look what happened to federer! Helps you win 16 slams!

roysid
03-01-2012, 08:04 PM
Look Roger beat Rafa in their next match after that painful AO'09 loss. Plus Bonus RG. I guess similar thing would occur to Rafa.

CMM
03-01-2012, 11:35 PM
Another thing is that he thinks he took a step forward at the AO. Apart from the fact that the match went to 5 sets, I didn't see any difference.
He struggled to win the first set and then lost the following 2 very easily. Had it been a best of 3 match, it would have been just like their Indian Wells meeting.

zagor
03-01-2012, 11:46 PM
So, he is not as mentally strong as before, his serve is not as big as before, he can no longer hunt down each and every ball like he used to, and how are the rest of his stats?

Excsuses again? Did 25 year old Rafa decline so much?

P.S. His serve was very rarely "big", you obviously don't have a clue what makes it so effective.