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VOLLEY KING
03-02-2012, 06:19 PM
I have tried every strange racquet on the market to improve my game and just to have fun. Now Ive become sort of a collector of strange racquets.

 Do you guys own any strange racquets? Post your pics and give a review....here's my first one:

The Natural racquet:

http://ggtennis.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/cimg0094.jpg


Intro: this stick had some cool attributes. It will ruin your game but it was fun to try out.

Thebstick is used by the battistone brothers on thebpro tour and they hitbsome of the most insane serves I have ever seen in my life.


serves

Serves were ridiculously GREAT with this racquet. In fact I have never in my life hit serves like
this before. 

It took some getting used to though. The angle of the racquet faces sharply down. So basically you have to swing for the fences.... Literally ! I tried to hot the ball over the fence and the result was an incredibly fast serve that landed in the box. I have never hit serves like this before in my life.

ground strokes

7/10

As great as the serve was that's how bad the groundstrokes were. I just couldn't hit two handed off both sides . And after I tried it for a week it ruined my groundstrokes with a regular racquet.

The handles were great though. They are just shaped in such a way that it's really easy to change grips and it's very powerful. I wish all racquets used this grip system . Most comfortable grip that I have ever felt

feel

Feel was great . Heavy plow through and a nice "thud" feeling.

return of serve

Horrible....for the same reason and groundstrokes . Just couldn't get used to it.

volleys  

Horrible. It's so complicated . I kelt getting caught holding the racquet with one hand or two. There's just too much to think about .

conclusion

Great conversation piece. The color is wild. You cannot fit it into some stringing machines. Serves are fun but that's about it. I would not buy this stick but it was a nice addition to my collection.

VOLLEY KING
03-02-2012, 06:26 PM
More to racquets to follow soon.....I have some wild ones!

VOLLEY KING
03-02-2012, 06:56 PM
The Mad Raq:

http://clown.ithil.org/~ajss/0784.jpg

intro

This is racquet actually works! One of the best racquets I have ever played with in my life.

This racquet came out before the spaghetti string ban and was used on the tour but Im not sure it's legal today.

I've read the rules and it says something like "you can have only one " SET" of strings". The Mad raq requires more strings and therefore is not one set.

The Mad raq is named after it's owner Madeline. Stringers did not want to deal with the nightmare of stringing it. So it never took off because of that.

At one point Donnay came out with a Mad raq as well and even used Mcenroes name. It's was called the Dunlop Mcenroe Mad raq.

Moving forward Madeline decided to take the third set of string out and created the "power angle" racquet sold right here on TW.

The power angle is a great stick but the Mad raq is much better. Madeline a mathematician got the idea from looking at an American Indian snow show. The design was very stable.

She made the most stable string bed I have ever played with in my life.....so stable that the strings never break. I have a set in there that's 15 years old.

I showed the racquet to Roman Prokes and he LOVED it. He said it just made sense.

out of all the models I thought that the "Bermuda" was their best stick.

serves[b]

8/10

Powerful and accuracy great. The spin was incredible especially on slice out wide.

[b] groundstrokes

The amount of spin was awesome and the stability of the stick was insane

volleys

7/10

Again very stable with no shock to the arm ; however the frame was a bit thick for maneuverability. There are however thinner models than the Bermuda mode,.

feel

10/10

This is the best feeling racquet I have ever played with period. The string design is just so stable. It's hard to explain but the feel is different than any other racquet you have ever played with. It's just rock solid.

Conclusion

So why don't I play with this stick if I love it so much

- I don't know if it's legal

- causes to many problems and people always question me

- no one wants to string this beast

If you have any sort of arm problems I think you will LOVE this stick. If you can deal with all the grief people will give you about the racquet and getting it strung then it may be for you.

You basically have to string only once because the strings never seem to break.

Groundstrokes [/

VOLLEY KING
03-02-2012, 06:59 PM
That's it for tonight....wait till I show you the rest of my collection. It's a trip . :-)

Deuces Wild
03-02-2012, 08:12 PM
The back of my chair has the same pattern as the Mad Raq's strings.

Don't Let It Bounce
03-02-2012, 08:25 PM
The Mad Raq stringing pattern is at the top of my list of "I wish someone would make that again". I'm reasonably certain it's legal: I believe the "one set of strings" referred to in the rules was aimed at the spaghetti stringing, which had three separate (in the sense of not being woven together) "sets" of string. It doesn't mean "set" in the sense of "coil".

I suspect the USRSA hated Mad Raqs not so much because they were difficult to string but because they so rarely needed it.

VOLLEY KING
03-02-2012, 10:24 PM
The Mad Raq stringing pattern is at the top of my list of "I wish someone would make that again". I'm reasonably certain it's legal: I believe the "one set of strings" referred to in the rules was aimed at the spaghetti stringing, which had three separate (in the sense of not being woven together) "sets" of string. It doesn't mean "set" in the sense of "coil".

I suspect the USRSA hated Mad Raqs not so much because they were difficult to string but because they so rarely needed it.

It's probably certain ......but we just don't know for sure . A " set" of strings os pretty to me this racquet has more than a "set" so it can be at least argued that it's legal.

I guess someone would have to sub,it it to The ITF or USTA or whatever for a decision. Bit yup are right the rule wAs meant for spaghetti strings. Rules and laws must be applied uniformly .

I think Your are right about the usrsa.....these strings just never break.

VOLLEY KING
03-02-2012, 11:09 PM
Ergonom vs X-45

http://images.locallinkup.com/417330.jpg

http://x-45.com/media/catalog/category/CLASSIC-2412-NEW-2009_1.jpg

Intro

I bought the ergonom at TW and the X-45 at at flea market for $ 20 bucks.

The theory behind the racquets is that tennis is meant to be played with the racquet angle always at 45 degrees and this racquet does it for you.

The ergonom is an 80's racquet while the x-45 is the modern version.

I found this to be a gimmick that doesn't really work and gave no advantage whatsoever ......but the ergonom was the far better stick.

groundstrokes

Ergonom 6/10
X-45 2/10

Hard to get used to butbafter a while I just ignored the shape of the head and was able to hit groundstrokes.

The ergonom had an 80's thin beamed feel to it. Whipped around nicely and played well. Control and power were not bad.

X-45 was horrible. Was a thick beamed racquet and played poorly.

serves

Ergonom 3/10
X-45 1/10

I just could not get used to the shape. The only serves I could hit were slice serves. Flat serves were just impossible.

Of the two the ergonom cut through the air quicker and was the better of the two

volleys

Ergo 7/10
X-45 3/10

The shape actually did help a little here. It did help save time to prepare my racquet head .

The x-45 was just to bulky however while the ergo played like an old school stick.

feel

Ergo 9/10
X-45 2/10

The ergo felt awesome . It hadbthat old school feel because it was old school.

The ergo was just way to hollow.

Conclusion

The shape really does nothing except on volleys where it really does help and save time. Serves were difficult to hit.

Of the two sticks the ergo is far better. Sometime newer is not better! 

Larrysümmers
03-02-2012, 11:12 PM
ive always wanted to try the natural, just never seen any cheap enough for me. i think itd be interesting

VOLLEY KING
03-02-2012, 11:42 PM
ive always wanted to try the natural, just never seen any cheap enough for me. i think itd be interesting

You have to check out the serves this guy hits with it.

The first video is him hitting the most incredible serve .

The second is of him at a BNP Paribas event . He also used it at the us open but the video quality was poor so I didn't post it .

Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQYOW1DlydU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO_c_-mYlMY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

HERE's FEDERER ACTUALLY TRYING TO IMITATE THE BATTISTONE NATURAL RACQUET SERVE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNUaYo55GM4&feature=youtube_gdata_player




.

Larrysümmers
03-03-2012, 12:19 AM
i think fed was just jackin around

VOLLEY KING
03-03-2012, 06:21 AM
i think fed was just jackin around

Of course.

But Battistone the owner of te natural racquet did play in the Us Open.

I'm sure Federer watched him and imitated him??

mhj202
03-03-2012, 09:18 AM
Of course.

But Battistone the owner of te natural racquet did play in the Us Open.

I'm sure Federer watched him and imitated him??

He missed the part of Battistone's serve where Battistone tosses with his right hand and then transfers the racket from his left hand to his right and hits the serve with the right hand as well.

Kind of like how Jim Abbott (ex-MLB pitcher born without right hand) would probably need to serve (but he would obviously do it lefty).

Muse
03-03-2012, 09:25 AM
How much does the natural weigh? For some reason, when I look at it I imagine it weighing about 5 lbs and being impossible for a normal person to swing.

alidisperanza
03-03-2012, 09:42 AM
ive always wanted to try the natural, just never seen any cheap enough for me. i think itd be interesting

There was one on the bay for really cheap the other day. Dunno if it's still up. Worth a look though.

VOLLEY KING
03-03-2012, 09:43 AM
How much does the natural weigh? For some reason, when I look at it I imagine it weighing about 5 lbs and being impossible for a normal person to swing.


Interesting specs . They have a 27" version and a 29 inch version. These are the specs for the 27 inch version.

27" Racquet Specs: 

Headsize: 110 in
Length: 27 in
Weight: 11.8 oz
Balance: 12 points head light
Swingweight: 318
Pattern: 18 x 19

Here's a much better review than my review . The guy gives a day by day analysis of his experiences :

"Always on the prowl for arm-friendly racquets we came across a double handled racquet called “The Natural” tennis racquet.  The specs were interesting to us so we began researching the racquet.  After some initial reading we learned there was not much information posted about this unusal racquet.  They do have a web site and there are a couple of threads on discussion boards, but that is all the information available.  (Some interesting videos on YouTube also exist.)

We decided to see for ourselves if the racquet might be an alternative for some people.  It arrived two days ago. Our first order of business was to “pimp it out.”  In other words we added a stringbed of red mains and black crosses of the new MSV Hepta-Twist (soon to be available and soon to be a blog topic).  Next we wrapped the grips with purple and lime overwrap and used some red and yellow finishing tape.  Our goal was “gawdy as possible.”  Afterall, we want to attract attention when using this puppy.

Because of the scarcity of information we decided to make an online blog diary of our experience with this racquet.  Our first official hitting session will be this evening where we will form some initial opinions and report back in diary form, however yesterday, January 13, curiosity got the better of us and we took it to the courts at lunch.  Impressions below.

JANUARY 13, 2010 Today we share some preliminary observations after a brief hitting session against a wall and some serving practice.  Note:  Live action will be tomorrow, 1/14/10.

1.  It will take some time to adjust to the angle of the handles.  It is unrealistic to expect to be able to hit at 100% efficiency with this frame out of the box.  It will require some adjustments and muscle memory will have to be relearned.  I suspect it will take several hours of hitting sessions before I am comfortable using this racquet in match play.

2.  Some will use the racquet with the goal of hitting one hand off of each side.  In my case I am learning to hit two handed off of both sides.  I already hit a two-handed backhand and hitting that side with this racquet took just minor adjustments.  Felt really good.  Can’t wait to see how it performs in live action later today.  The two-handed forehand was very akward. Probably because it was not as natural for me.  Will have to work on it. Hitting with one hand was more comfortable for me, and I could rally against the wall with control using one hand, but that is not my goal.

3.  I now understand why it comes in 27″, 28″ and 29″ options.  After just a short wall session, I believe if hitting with two hands, the longer options may be better, although I am not sure what the extra length may mean for arm health. The model I am testing is the 27″ model with the 4 1/4″ grip.  Typically I use 4 1/2, but with two hands the smaller size does not bother me…so far.

4.  Used some different muscle groups in shoulders and upper back.  I expected to be sore today, but surprisingly I am not.  Must be due to the post workout chocolate milk chaser kicking in!

5.  The angled handles are intriguing.  I can see some distinct possibilites of additional leverage on groundstrokes, but it will require some grip work.  This is an area that definitely needs additional exploration.

6.  Serves.  The first dozen or so found the bottom of the net or the fence.  I tried serving with both the front and back handles.  I ultimately chose to focus on using the front handle.  The contact point has to be higher with this racquet when using the front handle in order to clear the net.  Ultimately that is GOOD for power.  By hitting at a higher point of contact, more power is generated.  The angle actually helps here.  I was impressed with the zip I found on serve…that caught me by surprise.  Control and placement will require additional practice due to the new contact point.  Also pronating with this racquet was not as easy for me.  Again, this was a short hitting session consisting of only 5 dozen or so serves.  There is reason to be very optimistic about the serving potential for this racquet.

I came away from the session realizing that one has to be committed to learning how to use the racquet.  It’s not like demoing a typical racquet off the store shelf.  Thus we will keep updating this diary to share our experience with those who may be considering trying this racquet for themselves.

2 thoughts on “The Natural Tennis Racquet – A Diary”

fsilber on May 11, 2010 at 6:28 pm said:

On the one-handed forehand you have to take the ball further out in front. The advantage for serving is that you don’t have to pronate, and maybe you shouldn’t. And maybe you should use a grip a bit more towards the eastern forehand grip. When I look at videos of the Battistone brothers, the string bed on the serve seems to face straight ahead before contact, during contact, and for a bit after contact. In other words, you get the height, power and spin of a proper serve, but with the easy timing of a pop-it-up beginner’s serve.

Reply ↓

ggtennis on May 11, 2010 at 10:57 pm said:

Well stated. I continue to experiment with pronation and am getting better at incorporating some spin action into the serves."

VOLLEY KING
03-03-2012, 09:44 AM
He missed the part of Battistone's serve where Battistone tosses with his right hand and then transfers the racket from his left hand to his right and hits the serve with the right hand as well.

Kind of like how Jim Abbott (ex-MLB pitcher born without right hand) would probably need to serve (but he would obviously do it lefty).

Who? Federer or the YouTube video I had of Battisone?

mhj202
03-03-2012, 09:48 AM
Who? Federer or the YouTube video I had of Battisone?

Federer missed it. I was wondering why Battistone tosses with his right instead of his left.

The serve is reminiscent of a volleyball jump serve- but there's no reason I can see that Battistone couldn't toss with his left.

Povl Carstensen
03-03-2012, 10:43 AM
My nine year daughter is in love with my PK Redondo mid. So I took of the leather grip, overgrip, 7 grams lead tape on the handle and the 16 polyester string at 23 kg. Put on a synthetic grip, and strung it with 17 syn gut at 18 kg, and brought it from 355g to 330g. Now I am a bit envious at her. But haven't tried it.

VOLLEY KING
03-03-2012, 10:43 AM
the legendary Spaghetti racquet

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae161/supracool94/Spagetti015.jpg

Intro

I picked this racquet up on the bay. I paid $300 bucks for it.

This is not a picture of my racquet because I cannot figure out how to upload. But my racquet is the old Lendl Adidas racquet.

This racquet was made illegal after Nastase broke Vilas' world record clay court run. That record was not broken until Nadal. Who knows how long Vilas' record would have lasted if not for this stick.

Nastase decided to use the racquet because a week before he was beaten by someone before who used it against Nasatase.

The racquet first caught the attention of the world when lowly ranked Mike Fishbach ( something like 200 in the world ) beat Hall of Famer Stan Smith. 

I personally don't think the racquet changed the game as much as graphite, oversize and poly strings have. If you noticed tennis is slowing down the surfaces to deal with that technology.

Although I did find that the spaghetti string gave you incredible spin and control, it was greatly lacking in power. If people used it today it would not give them an unfair advantage and I also think it would help tennis. We would see more variety .....feel and serve and volley players would be on the tour again.

The graphite and polyester strings helped baseliners  gain an advantage on ground strokes and return of serves. The serve and volleyers had virtually no help from technology in my opinion . It's not fair.

I believe that the spaghetti was outlawed more for political reasons than anything else.

In the Nasatse Vilas match there was a lot of emotion involved . People think that Nastase just won but the truth is that Vilas just gave up as he was completely frustrated. 

After losing the first set and on his way to lose the second set Vilas just stormed off the court in an angry rage. Vilas yelled and complained to his coach the legendary Tiriac .

Tiriac went on to coach Becker and became an owner of many tournaments . He is the richest man in Rumania and he is one of the most powerful men in tennis if not the most powerful .

Tiriac made just one phone call an the next day the spaghetti string was suspended from play and after a court battle made illegal. It ruined the guy who was promoting them in the USA. I actually spoke with his son because I wanted to buy more. But this was years ago.

The racquet i think would help players like Federer who have slice and junk I'm their game and it would be an answer to big top spinners like Nadal.  I think tennis would be way more exciting as well.

With polyester string oversized graphite racquets baseliners like Nadal have been given an unfair advantage . People cry its the slowness of the courts but I submit it's because of technology.

If baseliners were helped so much then why can't serve and volley players or all courters like Federer be given some technology ?

I am not going to give a scaled rating because the spaghetti doesn't compare to any other racquet. I will rather just describe it.

Groundstrokes

Definitely favors a player with touch like Federer. A topspin grinder like Nadal will have no use for this stick. The power is just not there. 

Although Nadal would get higher bouncing topspin he wouldn't have the same power. Plus Federers one handed slice would be able to deal with it better. The slice would come back far more effectively and accurately . It would make the playing field against Nadals powerful  Babolat fair and even more exciting .

The best stroke I found with this racquet was the slice. The ball just freaking dies. There's not much you can do with it.

A slice on grass even slow grass with this racquet is devastating and you could easily come in for a volley .

The junk you can put on the ball is amazing. But be forewarned its not powerful. It's more about control strategy and placement. Djokovic would have no benefit from this stick either.

Topspin is not a big deal at all. Sure you can get higher bouncing balls but the power is just not there. This racquet is not for a base line top spinner .

volleys

Amazing volleys. Perfect placement and lethal slices. Drop volleys are a dream . The ultimate Volley weapon.

drop shots & feel

WOW !!!! You can basically hit a drop shot from anywhere at any time with deadly accuracy. The feel is beyond describable.

Strung with gut and very plush. It's like a dream come true. Tennis the way I always dreamed of playing. Just so much fun.

I loved using it against juniors with their baseline bash games . They had no idea what to do with a real slice when they saw one.

serves

Power was very poor but placement and accuracy was off the charts. A serve and volleyers dream racquet. 

Your not going to get to many aces but you will be able to put away a LOT of volleys. I felt like John McEnroe on the court . So much fun!!

conclusion

Spaghetti strings I feel were outlawed due to political reasons. It didn't change the game anymore than polyester or graphite oversized racquets. This technology only helps the baseline badgers . Players like Federer or serve and volleyers should be given some technology as well to level the playing field.

We would also have variety back in tennis. Technology has changed our sport and we are trying to go back to the way tennis was by slowing the courts and the balls.  I propose either going back to wood or give the guys an answer to deal with all this power like the spaghetti string.

For hundreds of years there were no rules regarding a tennis racquet. Why all of a sudden did they out law the spaghetti string. 

The answer in one word : TIRIAC.

Why are polyester strings legal but spaghetti strings not? It's just not fair.

If you look at history Nastase and all courter was able to beat Vilas a clay court top spinner on red clay.  An analogy can be draw between Federer and Nadal.

I wonder what would have happened in that match if Nastase was allowed to use his spaghetti and Vilas had an APD ?? I think it would have been a fair match but far more importantly it would have been exciting as all hell and brough variety back!!!

Now that polyester is played with I think it's only fair to allow spaghetti strings to be used

VOLLEY KING
03-03-2012, 02:22 PM
Federer missed it. I was wondering why Battistone tosses with his right instead of his left.

The serve is reminiscent of a volleyball jump serve- but there's no reason I can see that Battistone couldn't toss with his left.

It does look like a volley ball serve .

Federer looked funny imitating it.

mhj202
03-03-2012, 02:52 PM
Federer looked funny imitating it.

Battistone looks funny actually doing it too.

VOLLEY KING
03-03-2012, 04:51 PM
Battistone looks funny actually doing it too.

What was really hard was volleying .

You sort of have to switch hands .

You do get a lot more reach this way.

I also noticed that Battistone hit with a one
Handed forehand.

I wonder how Seles or Santoro would do with the racquet .

In my life i have met only two people who hit with two hands on
Both sides . They were both very good players.

I would love to be able to play that way.

.

Steve Huff
03-03-2012, 08:36 PM
Who strung your Erg? They were way off. If you have a 2 point machine, it's an easy stringjob. You just have to remember there is a short side and a long side. Running 2 mains through one hole at the throat??? Must have been on drugs.

VOLLEY KING
03-03-2012, 10:59 PM
Who strung your Erg? They were way off. If you have a 2 point machine, it's an easy stringjob. You just have to remember there is a short side and a long side. Running 2 mains through one hole at the throat??? Must have been on drugs.

I was talking about the natural racquet.

The stringer could not fit it into his machine. I tried to have him force it and he chipped some of the paint; however the older manual machines with clamps was not a problem.

If you haven't noticed I don't know how to string ...lol. I don't remember exactly why the natural racquet wouldn't fit.....but I do remember it wouldn't fit.

TheOneHander
03-04-2012, 03:27 AM
He knows that you were talking about the natural racquet. He is referring to the Ergo, which is strung improperly.

VOLLEY KING
03-04-2012, 06:13 AM
He knows that you were talking about the natural racquet. He is referring to the Ergo, which is strung improperly.

How does he know my ergonom was strung improperly?

Did he see my ergonom? I did say however that the natural racquet could not fit in the machine and had to be put in an old manual machine with clamps.

Anyway as to who string the ergo I'm guessing it was Bosworth who strung it because I bought it from the "Bosworth collection".

It came strung and I have never tried to restring them. I just bought the racquet as a collectors piece.

Why did he say "must have been on drugs? "




.

Hitman99
03-04-2012, 06:28 AM
I have a PowerAngle Grand racket, got it because of a sore shoulder, plus my natural inclination to try new technologies. It is currently strung with a soft poly, but I am going to have it restrung with Babolat VS gut next weekend.

Since the PowerAngle already has the diagonal string pattern, I am wondering if there might be a way to add some cross strings, resulting in a pattern that is very close to the Mad Raq. I have never strung my own racket, so I don't know what is really possible. Looks to me like the grommets would need to be enlarged, so probably not an easy option.

VOLLEY KING
03-04-2012, 06:38 AM
I have a PowerAngle Grand racket, got it because of a sore shoulder, plus my natural inclination to try new technologies. It is currently strung with a soft poly, but I am going to have it restrung with Babolat VS gut next weekend.

Since the PowerAngle already has the diagonal string pattern, I am wondering if there might be a way to add some cross strings, resulting in a pattern that is very close to the Mad Raq. I have never strung my own racket, so I don't know what is really possible. Looks to me like the grommets would need to be enlarged, so probably not an easy option.

Why go through all that ....just get a Mad raq. You can get one on the net....or I can even give you Madelines contact info.

I also have a few extra bit only one Bermuda model which is my favorite . I'm never letting go!!!

What are the specs of your current stick?

I actually know her . She is pretty cool.....

If you like your power angle you will like the mad raq better ...100 percent guarantee .

And you only need to buy one because the strings just never break.

Tension will change however and stringing this thing is a nightmare.

TheOneHander
03-04-2012, 06:54 AM
Ergonom vs X-45

http://images.locallinkup.com/417330.jpg


How does he know my ergonom was strung improperly?

Did he see my ergonom? I did say however that the natural racquet could not fit in the machine and had to be put in an old manual machine with clamps.

Anyway as to who string the ergo I'm guessing it was Bosworth who strung it because I bought it from the "Bosworth collection".

It came strung and I have never tried to restring them. I just bought the racquet as a collectors piece.

Why did he say "must have been on drugs? "


.

Judging by the picture you posted (and the fact that you left no indication that the racquet is not yours), he was led to believe that the racquet above was indeed your property. As you can see, the center two mains appear to go through one grommet-something only a stringer on drugs would do.

VOLLEY KING
03-04-2012, 07:14 AM
Judging by the picture you posted (and the fact that you left no indication that the racquet is not yours), he was led to believe that the racquet above was indeed your property. As you can see, the center two mains appear to go through one grommet-something only a stringer on drugs would do.

Ohhhh. That makes sense!!!

Yeah I have not figured out how to post pictures of my actual racquets.

I tried though. I tried photo shack and others and just couldn't do it . But when I have more time I will pay more attention and post the actual pics.

Hitman99
03-04-2012, 07:37 AM
Why go through all that ....just get a Mad raq. You can get one on the net....or I can even give you Madelines contact info.

I also have a few extra bit only one Bermuda model which is my favorite . I'm never letting go!!!

What are the specs of your current stick?

I actually know her . She is pretty cool.....

If you like your power angle you will like the mad raq better ...100 percent guarantee .

And you only need to buy one because the strings just never break.

Tension will change however and stringing this thing is a nightmare.

I have Madeline's email addy, she gave me some good advice about string choices. However, she didn't answer my last email.....

She never mentioned that she is still selling the Mad Raq. Perhaps she isn't, as no more are being made.

All the specs on the PowerAngle are available on TW. I have the Grand model, which is a 115 head size. In general, the racket is relatively stiff, relatively light, and several points head heavy. Normally, these specs would not indicate a very arm/shoulder friendly racket, but the string pattern addresses some of those issues.

I also have a Vortex Extreme Spin racket on order, for demo purposes (they have a 30-day MBG policy instead of a formal demo program). There are also two Vortex rackets for sale right now on that auction site, by one of TT's most active posters - JoeSch.


Hmm, just checked and there is an antique McEnroe Mad Raq also for sale on that auction site. Real small head though. I might buy it just for its historical value.

VOLLEY KING
03-04-2012, 08:17 AM
I have Madeline's email addy, she gave me some good advice about string choices. However, she didn't answer my last email.....

She never mentioned that she is still selling the Mad Raq. Perhaps she isn't, as no more are being made.

All the specs on the PowerAngle are available on TW. I have the Grand model, which is a 115 head size. In general, the racket is relatively stiff, relatively light, and several points head heavy. Normally, these specs would not indicate a very arm/shoulder friendly racket, but the string pattern addresses some of those issues.

I also have a Vortex Extreme Spin racket on order, for demo purposes (they have a 30-day MBG policy instead of a formal demo program). There are also two Vortex rackets for sale right now on that auction site, by one of TT's most active posters - JoeSch.


Hmm, just checked and there is an antique McEnroe Mad Raq also for sale on that auction site. Real small head though. I might buy it just for its historical value.

No don't buy the McEnroe Mad raq at least not for serious play!!

It's a piece of crap. It was made for 13 year olds. I'm not even sure it's graphite.
I think it was only sold in like Target or stores like That. It's a joke .

I have a few Madraqs I don't use actually never even tried. Ill see if I have one that meets your specs. They are already strung however and it will be hard to restring .

Although Madeline lists a bunch of people who are stringers for her. I bought the guy in Thornwood out. I must have like 10 of them.

Madeline definitely has some or she can direct you on where to find it.

I'm glad you mentioned the Vortex. It's a very different racquet than the Mad Raq.

I have all the Vortex's and know them all well. The closest Vortex to your specs is the blue 116.

I'll post that one next when I have a moment. Great sticks.

.

Hitman99
03-04-2012, 08:51 AM
No don't buy the McEnroe Mad raq at least not for serious play!!

It's a piece of crap. It was made for 13 year olds. I'm not even sure it's graphite.
I think it was only sold in like Target or stores like That. It's a joke .

I have a few Madraqs I don't use actually never even tried. Ill see if I have one that meets your specs. They are already strung however and it will be hard to restring .

Although Madeline lists a bunch of people who are stringers for her. I bought the guy in Thornwood out. I must have like 10 of them.

Madeline definitely has some or she can direct you on where to find it.

I'm glad you mentioned the Vortex. It's a very different racquet than the Mad Raq.

I have all the Vortex's and know them all well. The closest Vortex to your specs is the blue 116.

I'll post that one next when I have a moment. Great sticks.

.

I will be trying the Vortex 116, if I don't like it I may check out the 108. I am a super senior (65+) USTA 4.0, almost exclusively play doubles.

If you have a Vortex 116 for sale I might be interested. Ditto for a Mad Raq in a larger head size.

VOLLEY KING
03-04-2012, 09:49 AM
I will be trying the Vortex 116, if I don't like it I may check out the 108. I am a super senior (65+) USTA 4.0, almost exclusively play doubles.

If you have a Vortex 116 for sale I might be interested. Ditto for a Mad Raq in a larger head size.

I just finished my vortex review. Dude you will seriously love the 133.

It's the racquet that Tom the owner of Vortex uses in USTA nationals. Dont be scared or feel stupid about the size . It's an amazing stick for the right player.
It is NOT a gran pa stick.

It's unbeatable at the net.

Here comes the review. Did it quick sorry for the typos.

VOLLEY KING
03-04-2012, 09:50 AM
VORTEX

http://www.woodtennis.com/extreme_spin/snauwaert_hiten_es100b.jpg

Thank Joesh for these pictures . I did a search on google images and thread you did came up. The red one is vortex the blue is the woodforde hi ten which the vortex is modeled after.

The reviews given there of the Vortex will be far better than my "regular guy" review so for a more in depth review you should check that thread out.

These racquets are really cool. They may not look "crazy" but they are !!

They have an incredibly sparse string pattern . One model has a mere 14x15 string pattern! The strings are extremely thick as well at 15 guage! Tension is extremely low as well at 45 pounds recommended or lower!! Also the patern is in the shape of a "V" spreading out wider on top . This is supposed to do something .....I'm not quite sure what? But it seems to work

They are modeled after one of the greatest doubles players of all time Mark Woodforde. He used a snauwert hi ten and I think later a Wilson? But his racquet was specially made and produced crazy spin

Mark woodfordes racquet had extreme spin and was super effective . He also used unbelievably thick string . I'm sure Joe can tell you the name. It was a green thick string the kind you would use in a weed whacker.

The Vortex is the modern version of that racquet. They redesigned the racquet so you could use an extremely low tension whereas Woodforde used an extremely high tension which most customers didn't like.

I would be VERY VERY excited to get my hands on a hi ten!! If anyone wants to post a review ( hint hint joe) I would really appreciate it ! Or maybe I could convince you to part with yours? I would be willing to pay a LOT for it.

Anyway I had to settle for the Vortex and I'll give you guys a review of each model. A very short review but a review nonetheless .

Serves

Tour 95    8/10
Tour 100.  8/10
Pro 100.     7/10
Pro 116.        5/10
Es 100.        6/10
Es108.         7/10
Es 116.          4/10
Es 133.        2/10

The sticks with pro or tour on it are more player  oriented frames. They are thinner and the patterns though still very sparse are denser than the game improvement frames.

Basically I found the thinner the frames the better the serves.

Spin was all there big time for all. But racquet speed was lacking in some of the game improvement racquets .

The 133 being the worst for serves. It was just so powerful that you basically could only tap the ball on your serves because a full swing would go out of the ball park. Of your an older player or a 3.0 or lower you will like this frame for serves.

However the Pro 100, tour 100 and tour 95 were great serving racquets. Power, control placement an spin were very good.

The es 100 & 108 were in between the spectrum. They wer good serving racquets . They are "tweener" racquets and right in the middle of the scale.

return of serve

Tour 95  6/10
Tour 100 6/10
Pro 100.   7/10
Pro 116.     8/10
Es 100.     8/10
Es108.       8/10
Es 116.         9/10
Es 133.      10/10

Let me start off with the 133. I know it seems like a crazy racquet to play with . It is HUGE ! The string pattern makes it look even bigger. And the length is I think 29 inches ? 

Anyway there is no better racquet I have ever played with for return a serve . At a mere 10 ounces it's extremely maneuverable . Everything comes back. The only problem is when you play a player with a soft serve. It's difficult to take a full swing with this stick.

The es  116 is very similar in return department. It's just a hair dofference than the 133. It's actually a little better against soft serves.

The tours and pro's are not nearly as good for returns. You have to hot more of the sweet spot and the frame is thinner for less stability .

The es 100 and 108 were probably the best of both worlds. Absolutely awesome returning sticks. Works well against all types of serves .

volleys

Tour 95   7/10
Tour 100. 7/10
Pro 100.   7/10
Pro 116.     6/10
Es 100.     8/10
Es108.       8/10
Es 116.         9/10
Es 133.       10/10

The 133 is just a freaking MONSTER at the net. Nothing will get by you. Maneuverable as a 90 inch stick but big as a boat. The pattern also produce some great returns when diving . Absolutely amazing .

The es  116 is very similar and probably just as good. There is an extremely small difference .

The es 100 and 108 are amazing at the net as well. Some of the best volley sticks I have ever had the pleasure to try.

The tour and pro versions all VERY good at the net as well. All Vortex sticks are great  volley racquets and I would put them up against any stick on the market.

Slice

Tour 95  8/10
Tour 100 8/10
Pro 100.   8/10
Pro 116.      8/10
Es 100.      7/10
Es108.       7/10
Es 116.         5/10
Es 133.      4/10

I use a donnay which I think is the best slicing racquet made today. So I am highly critical in this department and I may be to hard on the Vortex here.

The pros and your versions were very good slicing sticks .

The ES  100 & 108 versions were average

The es 116 is a very good slicing stick....but far from the best . This racquet I think is a great doubles stick.

The 133 is just a powerhouse . It's to thick for serious slices. It's meant for an older player or a low level player .

topspin

Tour 95  8/10
Tour 100. 8/10
Pro 100.    7/10
Pro 116.       5/10
Es 100.       7/10
Es108.         7/10
Es 116.           5/10 
Es 133.         1/10

I'm not a great topspiner and I'm not the best qualified in this department.

The es 116 & 133 I would say are doubles or serve and volley chip and charge sticks. Or even pusher sticks....come to think of it the 133 is probably the greatest pusher stick ever made! They are not for any serious topsinners

The ES 100 and 108 are very good topspin sticks but they are not thin enough for serious racquet speed and violent topspin. They are tweeners.

Tour 95 and tour 100 are serious topspin sticks . You will get some sick topspin with these babies

The pro 116 is just not maneuverable enough 

drop shots and touch shots[b]

Tour 95  8/10
Tour 100. 8/10
Pro 100.    7/10
Pro 116.        7/10
Es 100.       7/10
Es108.         7/10
Es 116.            7/10 
Es 133.           6/10

All these sticks have great feel and touch for droppers except the 133 which is a little too powerful. But it's not terrible. Definitely above average.

[b]Arm friendly

All the same . They all feel good . A bit hollow but I'm a bit critical as a donnay user.

They do make a funny sound without dampeners . They are a must.

conclusion

These are great sticks and really work . They are definitely worth a try. The only reason I am not playing with them is because the Donnays are just better in the slice department and that's a big part of my game.

The mad Raq and these Vortex's are the real deal. They are not gimmicks. 

The thick strings really form a vice grip for extra spin and control. The racquets are stable and arm friendly.

Steve Huff
03-04-2012, 11:03 AM
I spoke with Joe about these rackets several months ago, and he said they were a blast to hit with. That was a shock since Joe normally plays with vintage, dense-patterned frames. He loved them, said it was so easy to get lots of spin.

VOLLEY KING
03-04-2012, 11:39 AM
I spoke with Joe about these rackets several months ago, and he said they were a blast to hit with. That was a shock since Joe normally plays with vintage, dense-patterned frames. He loved them, said it was so easy to get lots of spin.

Has he switched to them?

Can you ask him to do a review of the hi 10 ?

Hitman99
03-04-2012, 11:41 AM
I have read the lengthy threads were posted on TT about a year ago, so I am familiar with the playtest feedback. Nice to see it again, refresh my memory. I might think about having two of these rackets, serve with the 100 or 108, return serve with the 116 or 135.

VOLLEY KING
03-04-2012, 11:54 AM
I have read the lengthy threads were posted on TT about a year ago, so I am familiar with the playtest feedback. Nice to see it again, refresh my memory. I might think about having two of these rackets, serve with the 100 or 108, return serve with the 116 or 135.

It depends on your playing style.

The 133 is really a good racquet for some people.

First of all it's 29 inches. It makes a difference. If you have slowed down a bit you will be able to get to more balls In singles play. Plus the huge head size is a big help.

For volleys and returns and chip and charge this racquet is just lethal. I have never seen anything quite like it. Your doubles partner will engrave a statue in your honor.

If your big on hitting topspin from the baseline this is not the stick. But of your a pusher this is a dream stick. Your "pushes" will become powerful and you will get to everything .

Now serves are where it gets a bit tricky. I have a really big serve and I like to hit the crap out of the ball. This racquet is just way to powerful. Having said that with just a moderate swing I'm able to generate some pretty decent controlled power and then volley almost anything with this baby. Hell I feel like I could serve underhanded and still put away a good volley with it ...lol.

The es 116 is similar jut a bit shorter and allows you to have more of a swing. The Pro 116 is a players stick and allows for a full swing . So there are two 116's you should be aware of.

But the bottom line is that all three sticks are meant for moderate to slow swings. The racquet does all the work. The bigger the Vortex the more work it will do for you.

Don't count out the 133 it's a special stick. I really loved it....of it were not for the serves I would use it.

VOLLEY KING
03-04-2012, 06:28 PM
The Power V Grip

http://www.keohi.com/tennis/wonderwedge/images/05.gif

http://www.tennisgeometrics.com/Continental_Tennis_Grip/imag001.jpg

intro

Ok I know this isn't a racquet but this tiny little gadget has changed my game more than any racquet or string there is . In fact it's the most important of the three!!

I never knew how important your grip is but everything starts from there.

The right grip will give you more power , control and feel than any racquet or strings ....I swear.

This grip changes the angle of your racquet  face. You get a far more powerful ball . It's like having a nunchuck in your hand.

I actually bought one grip and then custom made my own. I used 5 layers of double sided foam mounting tape under the grip and it has improved my game more than anything !

It also allows you to feel each grip clearly and it locks your hand in strong . For example if your in a continental you can't really cheat and slide into an eastern unless you go out of your way to do it . It's tough to explain.

Babolat tried to copy this recently with a grip with a small bubble or hump in it. But it's not as nearly pronounced as the V grip.

Think about it the palm of your hand is not flat so why should your handle be.

It's sort of like when you wear inserts for arch support. It's a support for the "arch" in the palm....the palm is indented just like your foot. By giving it support everything improves tremendously .

Think of a steering wheel. You can turn a steering wheel quicker and with more power when the steering wheel has those indents to put you fingers in. It's a much better grip that just a flat steering wheel.

The pros know this and all have custom made grips....and so should you. It the base for everything .


Here's my review :

continental

The V grip really works well here. The top end of the grip works like a shelf for your index finger . 

This V grip has increased the power of my serve , the accuracy and the spin.

For volleys you get increased angels. You can really hit those pro volleys like you see on tv. Love it.

eastern

The V grip actually does not work so well for eastern at all.

It takes away from the space as it goes right on the bevel where the palm of your hand would go.

It does however increase your power but the accuracy goes down a bit. 

It also increases the power of the serve with an eastern.  

I use it with an eastern (as well as all the grips) but it tool a loooong time to get used to.

semi western

WOW!!! What can i say? You will increase your power your accuracy everything . Just awesome for this.

western

No freaking clue. I can't hit western if my life depended on it ....lol

Conclusion

If you try it you will immediately see a HUGE difference in the way you hit the ball.

There is a learning curve though because you tend to spray balls all over the place because of the increased power. 

It took me actually about 6 months! But I'm glad I stuck with it and I would never go back.

Pros build their grips as well and have them custom made .

Navratilova said Bosworth built a grip for her and now she can hit a down the line backhand topspin which she really didn't have while on the tour.

This is the poor mans version of a custom grip. I have cut the mounting tape perfectly for my hand .

It has helped my game more than anything else.

Hitman99
03-05-2012, 06:14 AM
It depends on your playing style.

The 133 is really a good racquet for some people.

First of all it's 29 inches. It makes a difference. If you have slowed down a bit you will be able to get to more balls In singles play. Plus the huge head size is a big help.

For volleys and returns and chip and charge this racquet is just lethal. I have never seen anything quite like it. Your doubles partner will engrave a statue in your honor.

If your big on hitting topspin from the baseline this is not the stick. But of your a pusher this is a dream stick. Your "pushes" will become powerful and you will get to everything .

Now serves are where it gets a bit tricky. I have a really big serve and I like to hit the crap out of the ball. This racquet is just way to powerful. Having said that with just a moderate swing I'm able to generate some pretty decent controlled power and then volley almost anything with this baby. Hell I feel like I could serve underhanded and still put away a good volley with it ...lol.

The es 116 is similar jut a bit shorter and allows you to have more of a swing. The Pro 116 is a players stick and allows for a full swing . So there are two 116's you should be aware of.

But the bottom line is that all three sticks are meant for moderate to slow swings. The racquet does all the work. The bigger the Vortex the more work it will do for you.

Don't count out the 133 it's a special stick. I really loved it....of it were not for the serves I would use it.

Couple of updates: first, I bid on and won JoeSh's Vortex racket (108), so it should be arriving soon. Second, the Pro 116 must be a new racket from Vortex, as I don't remember seeing it on their website previously, and what is now shown on the website says "Product specs will soon be available for you". Third, I ordered an ES116 for demo purposes, got a call from Lori saying that the racket is back ordered, won't be available for a couple of weeks. I'm thinking that I might give her a call, switch my order to a 133, see how I like it. :)

Hitman99
03-05-2012, 06:24 AM
The Power V Grip

http://www.keohi.com/tennis/wonderwedge/images/05.gif

http://www.tennisgeometrics.com/Continental_Tennis_Grip/imag001.jpg


It has helped my game more than anything else.

Checked this out on their website. What is the difference between the two grips? I've read the descriptions, can't really tell them apart. Do they both have the sorbothane cushioning?

VOLLEY KING
03-05-2012, 07:02 AM
Couple of updates: first, I bid on and won JoeSh's Vortex racket (108), so it should be arriving soon. Second, the Pro 116 must be a new racket from Vortex, as I don't remember seeing it on their website previously, and what is now shown on the website says "Product specs will soon be available for you". Third, I ordered an ES116 for demo purposes, got a call from Lori saying that the racket is back ordered, won't be available for a couple of weeks. I'm thinking that I might give her a call, switch my order to a 133, see how I like it. :)

Small family owned company so don't be to hard on them.

I love my sticks and can't part with them but if you could figure out a way I'd lend it to you.

I definitely think you will love the 133. I actually chose the 133 over the 116.....I used the 133 for quite a while.

It was an incredibly hard decision. The 116 is a bit more maneuverable and is more of a players stick. It's a lot better on serves as well. It's a tough call.

But the 133 is better in some other very important departments. First of all for singles you now can get to balls you never could reach. And I've lost a bit of speed over the years.

For return of big serves its unbeatable. You can return anything and with power.

For serve and volley it's amazing . In doubles at the net it's just hard to beat. And when serving and coming in I was able to reach and get to balls I never could before.

If you can get over the funny appearance......it's a great choice. They are both great sticks and it's hard to choose.....very hard.

VOLLEY KING
03-05-2012, 07:08 AM
Checked this out on their website. What is the difference between the two grips? I've read the descriptions, can't really tell them apart. Do they both have the sorbothane cushioning?

Nothing.

That's a blue piece of rubber . The second picture is just the gripped wrapped over the rubber. The first picture is what is under the grip.

But I actually lik using mounting tape better. I wasn't being cheap....I actually like it better.

You cut the rubber or the mounting tape ( I uses 5 pieces on top of each other) , to custom fit your hand

Seems silly right? Try it .....you won't believe the incredible difference it will make.....far more than the racquet or the strings .

I'm not saying you will like it but you will see a huge difference immediately....and there is quite a bit of a learning curve to deal with it.

It's weird that a grip would make such a difference .....but it really does. An UNBELIEVEABLY BIG difference . That a 100 percent guarantee that you will see it in the very first ball you hit.

Hitman99
03-05-2012, 08:55 AM
I didn't mean the two grips shown in the photos, I meant the two types of grips shown on their website. The website has a "button" to help determine which grip is best, and pictures of the two grips, but damned if I can figure out which is best, or why.

Re the rackets, since Vortex has their generous MBG policy in lieu of offering demo rackets, I'll just get the 133 and try it out. If I like it, I'll keep it. If I REALLY like it better than the 108, I'll just sell the 108.

I also have to decide whether I like either of the Vortex rackets better than the PowerAngle --- I can't believe how much better I am playing with it. I am planning to have it restrung this coming weekend with Powermaxx Light Touch gut, at 45 lbs. This string is specifically designed for lower tensions, in fact 45 lbs is the upper limit. Should be interesting.

VOLLEY KING
03-05-2012, 09:01 AM
I didn't mean the two grips shown in the photos, I meant the two types of grips shown on their website. The website has a "button" to help determine which grip is best, and pictures of the two grips, but damned if I can figure out which is best, or why.

Re the rackets, since Vortex has their generous MBG policy in lieu of offering demo rackets, I'll just get the 133 and try it out. If I like it, I'll keep it. If I REALLY like it better than the 108, I'll just sell the 108.

I also have to decide whether I like either of the Vortex rackets better than the PowerAngle --- I can't believe how much better I am playing with it. I am planning to have it restrung this coming weekend with Powermaxx Light Touch gut, at 45 lbs. This string is specifically designed for lower tensions, in fact 45 lbs is the upper limit. Should be interesting.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the 133. It does look funny though.

There are two grips....one is softer and the other is a heavier rubber. It's personal preference.

I like the softer one much better....but I like mounting tape better than all.

.

VOLLEY KING
03-05-2012, 09:03 AM
The blackburne ( 97 & 107)

http://80s-tennis.com/images/april2008/rackets/doublestringer-2.jpg

http://www.blackburneds.com/assets/images/homepict.jpg

Roscoe tanner using the blackburne at Wimbledon

http://www.blackburneds.com/assets/images/rosco1.jpg

intro

Yes they are legal!!

They are double strung but sperately. You can string the backhand different than the forehand or use different strings.

There is no edge so what this does is:

1- no mishits . Everything is a sweet spot . Very helpful on return of serves and volleys.

2- you can use extreme grips and never worry about a mishit

3 ball stays on the face of the racquet longer . Same concept as a ping pong paddle.

4.  3 dimensional and more stable than conventional racquets

5. Head heavy and packs a huge punch.

6. Ball comes off the racquet quicker because on a regular frame the string are further back

So why Am I not using it?? Stringing is a nightmare. Even if you find someone to do it it's very expensive .you have to pay double and more than that to get someone to string it.


Serves

97  10/10
107  8/10

Absolute BOMBS. Forget Babolat ! These are light as a feather . Like nine ounces . But because of the double head they are the most head heavy racquets ever made. They are hammers.

All you have to do is aim downwards and you are hitting a bomb flat serve That has to be seen to be believed

The 107 is a bit less maneuverable though.

Volleys

97- 9/10
107. 5/10

No mishits . Returns at your feet even are volleyed for winners . 

The 107 is just to bulky at the net.

Return of serve

97-  10/10
107 - 8/0

Amazing. No mishits everything is returned with power

107 again a bit less maneuverable.

slice

97  6/10
107  7/10

Not a great slicing racquet. Way to thick . The 107 was slightly better because you get more power

topspin

97  8/10
107 10/10

The 107 has huge topspin even for me. Amazing! The 97 Is also very good.

flat

97  9/10
107 9/10

Pinpoint accuracy and a LOT o power.

Drop shots

97 8/10
107 7/10

Great touch and control. Both worked great.

Arm friendliness

So much more stable than a rwgir racquet . The 3d design is just so much more stable. No twisting .

Conclusion

Great racquet. One of the best that I have ever tried. But the stringing situation is just way to much to deal with.

Hitman99
03-05-2012, 09:25 AM
LOL! WHERE do you find all this stuff? Incredible. Gyro Gearloose would be proud.

Larrysümmers
03-05-2012, 09:35 AM
what exactly about stringing is hard? is it just that there's 2 string beds, or is it unbelievably difficult. the only thing i could see being a pain is weaving the crosses on the "2nd" string bed

VOLLEY KING
03-05-2012, 09:45 AM
what exactly about stringing is hard? is it just that there's 2 string beds, or is it unbelievably difficult. the only thing i could see being a pain is weaving the crosses on the "2nd" string bed

Well I don't know how to string.

I brought it to Roman Prokes and he said "no way". I said I would pay extra and he still said NO.

The only guy who would string it is woody at grand slam. And he does it himself and won't allow anyone else. He is pretty fair and just charges double ....two sides is two racquets .

He says there are two things that causes problems. First you have to be careful because when you string one side then go to the other the racquet will warp of not done correctly .

Then when you have one side strung it hard to do the other because you can't fit your fingers through.

I know what he means because putting a worm dampener through it , then it takes like 20 minutes . It's a pain.

You have to use a spoon .

VOLLEY KING
03-05-2012, 10:59 AM
LOL! WHERE do you find all this stuff? Incredible. Gyro Gearloose would be proud.

Embarrassing isn't it? It's an addiction .

I just love new ways to look at things in general. Im a bit of a rebel...lol.

The thing about tennis as you said its so conservative. There's only one way to hot a ball, one type of racquet to use bla bla bla.

But if you look at some of the greatest players in our sport they all changed the way the game was played and did something different against the grain :

Roddick got the form of his serve from fooling around playing baseball with a racquet

Tanner got it from trying to hit leaves off trees.

Borg would not listen to his teachers and hit with an open stance

Lendl ran around his backhnd to hit a forehand

McEnroe does everything wrong from his crazy serve motion to his ugly groundstrokes

But I find even many people on this board just follow the crowd like sheep.

Let's not forget that Columbus said the world was round. Usually the minority is right.....because there are very few smart people but a lot of dumb ones.

Lavs
03-05-2012, 12:27 PM
the topic should be renamed "Review the ugliest racket"...

VOLLEY KING
03-05-2012, 01:16 PM
the topic should be renamed "Review the ugliest racket"...

That's what I mean about a conservative sport.

Why are people so scared of differences?

I swear I know what Columbus must have felt like.

VOLLEY KING
03-05-2012, 01:26 PM
When graphite first came out few wanted to try it.

As a compromise they made graphite racquets with wood in them. A composite.

When Lendl finally had the balls to use one people started to trust them . But I think the very first was Ashe?

Then came the prince oversized . No one wanted to try them at first either and then when pros started using them people started as well.

By the way polyester strings have been around since at least the 70's. But like sheep everyone would only use gut.

Borg ran into the same issue....everyone said "you must hit with a closed stance ....it's the only proper way!!!"

We all should thank Borg for not listening .

At one time even a two handed backhand was revolutionary!

Same old story.

Hitman99
03-05-2012, 01:44 PM
I played with the first Prince oversized racket, got lots of snotty comments like "no self respecting player" would ever use one. Later I played with the first Hammer rackets, also got a lot of ridicule ("Gawd, it's so THICK!").

I also learned how to ski on little short 36 inch skis, was skiing parallel within a week ("Look Ma, no poles!!"). When I took a pair of Head 5-foot skis to France, the instructors laughed out loud. Later, short skis became THE hottest thing since sliced bread. When parabolic skis came out, people fell down laughing, until they noticed that two skis placed together had the exact same profile as a snowboard. Now you can't give away skis that aren't "shaped". I know, 'cause I hauled some over to Goodwill yesterday.

That's OK. Winning is the best revenge.

BTW, I called Vortex and changed my order to the 133 model. Wait 'til the locals get an eyefull!! Of course, one of the guys in my weekly tennis group uses a 135 inch Outer Limits racket, and USTA just moved him up to 4.5. He'll probably want to try the Vortex first thing.

VOLLEY KING
03-05-2012, 01:52 PM
I really think that you will like the 133....you may like the power angle better but at least you will give it a try!!

The paint job is similar to a Babolat APD....it looks like an APD on steroids...lol.

The looks are deceiving .... It's not as big as it looks. The sparse string pattern makes it look bigger than it is. If you match it up with your 116 you'll see it's not a big difference.

I really loved the stick. The only issue is the serve....you really don't need to put much on it.

Please let me know what you think . If you dislike don't spare my feelings.

Hitman99
03-05-2012, 02:22 PM
I spare nobody except the blind, the sick, the crippled, and the elderly.

That's why I'm so easy on myself......

VOLLEY KING
03-06-2012, 05:08 AM
When will you receive the Vortex?

Hitman99
03-06-2012, 05:19 AM
It was shipped yesterday via USPS. Hopefully I will get it by Saturday, as I am playing that night.

VOLLEY KING
03-08-2012, 05:39 PM
2 more days until "V" day . :-)

Hitman99
03-09-2012, 12:29 PM
The Vortex arrived today, and I will be playing with it tomorrow night at a tennis party, might also try to hit with it a little bit during the afternoon.

It really is huge, with very nice black/yellow glossy paint scheme. It feels a tad heavier than I expected. The strings are not what I expected --- they are thick at 15g, but have a smooth surface, appear to be round. Not sure what makes them super 'spinny".

I immediately put a Power V grip on it, along with an overwrap. Can't wait to hit with it.

Meanwhile, I took my PowerAngle to have it restrung today, discovered the frame has a crack in it, next to one of the upper grommet holes. I suspect this is because the previous owner ignored the stringing instructions, strung it with Golden Set poly @ 60 pounds, when the instructions say the max is 53 pounds. Not sure whether the frame is repairable or not. Bummer.

VOLLEY KING
03-09-2012, 12:39 PM
The Vortex arrived today, and I will be playing with it tomorrow night at a tennis party, might also try to hit with it a little bit during the afternoon.

It really is huge, with very nice black/yellow glossy paint scheme. It feels a tad heavier than I expected. The strings are not what I expected --- they are thick at 15g, but have a smooth surface, appear to be round. Not sure what makes them super 'spinny".

I immediately put a Power V grip on it, along with an overwrap. Can't wait to hit with it.

Meanwhile, I took my PowerAngle to have it restrung today, discovered the frame has a crack in it, next to one of the upper grommet holes. I suspect this is because the previous owner ignored the stringing instructions, strung it with Golden Set poly @ 60 pounds, when the instructions say the max is 53 pounds. Not sure whether the frame is repairable or not. Bummer.


Hitman !!! Don't put the power V grip on !!!

There's is a very big learning curve .

The power V grip takes a lot of practice to get used to.

You will be hitting the ball over the fence.

I know the grip doesn't seem like a big deal .....but it's HUGE!!

You are changing the angle of the face of the racquet and you are gaining a sheetload of power. It takes time to control that power.

To play with a V grip for the very first time and use a new racquet is just too much to ask.

The racquet really looks huge because of the strings . But it's an optical illusion. Put it face to face with your 116 and you'll see that the difference is actually marginal.

Good luck!!!

Dying to hear your reviews ....especially about the power V you won't believe what a difference it makes. You will
Probably hate the grip. You will be spraying balls all over the place.....took me 6 months!

Hitman99
03-09-2012, 01:35 PM
We'll see. IMHO I don't think it will be that much of an adjustment, as I have always switched grips between a semi-western FH and a fairly extreme BH. I also serve with an extreme BH grip.

However, I do respect your advice. If I have any problem at all, I will pull the overwrap and grip off. No biggie....

VOLLEY KING
03-09-2012, 02:06 PM
We'll see. IMHO I don't think it will be that much of an adjustment, as I have always switched grips between a semi-western FH and a fairly extreme BH. I also serve with an extreme BH grip.

However, I do respect your advice. If I have any problem at all, I will pull the overwrap and grip off. No biggie....

You'll see . :-)

Hitman99
03-09-2012, 04:20 PM
You'll see . :-)

He says, with an evil sounding laugh....... :twisted:

VOLLEY KING
03-09-2012, 06:58 PM
Mitt Rocker 97
 
http://i35.tinypic.com/ekndxw.jpg

The first racquet ever made with moving parts. Wilson tried and failed to copy it with its "roller " technology. Remember those?

They were little wheels placed where the drilled holes were.

The mitt is supposed to catch the ball like a "mitt" by place img these little thing a ma bobs where the holes are . Tough to explain but you can see it here ( five the site an extra minute to load....it's very slow):

http://web.archive.org/web/19961219073128/http://mittusa.com/

The racquet was designed by the legendary hall of famed Pancho Gonzalez. Unfortunately when he died so did the company.

I'm to lazy to give a full review but it was a great racquet with great feel. I only have one but I wish I had bought more.

.

VOLLEY KING
03-10-2012, 05:48 AM
Hitman,

If you use the "V" grip and then decided to take it off ( which I think you will), the problem is muscle memory.

When you go back to your original grip chances are you won't be able to hit the ball correctly until a game or two .

I certainly would not try out the "V" grip in a match.

Hitman99
03-10-2012, 06:01 AM
Tonight I will be playing at a tennis party --- three 45 minute playing sessions, two mixed, one men's. Competition level will be pretty high, comparable to USTA 4.0 league matches. But it's all just for fun.

I am planning to go over to the club (indoors) this afternon, hit for an hour with a ball machine. In addition to the Vortex, I also want to hit with my Head Metallix, just had it restrung with low-tension (42 lbs) gut.

BTW, my other Vortex (ES 108 ) was shipped to me today by JoeSh.

So, lots of new toys to play with. :)

VOLLEY KING
03-10-2012, 06:09 AM
Tonight I will be playing at a tennis party --- three 45 minute playing sessions, two mixed, one men's. Competition level will be pretty high, comparable to USTA 4.0 league matches. But it's all just for fun.

I am planning to go over to the club (indoors) this afternon, hit for an hour with a ball machine. In addition to the Vortex, I also want to hit with my Head Metallix, just had it restrung with low-tension (42 lbs) gut.

BTW, my other Vortex (ES 108) was shipped to me today by JoeSh.

So, lots of new toys to play with. :)

Then use the V grip on the head mettalix . :-)

Hitman99
03-10-2012, 11:49 AM
I tried to get some time on our club's ball machine, but it was booked until 5 PM. So I wandered over to the Wakefield tennis courts, hit a little bit against the wall, then practiced a few serves.

I had little trouble adjusting to the Power V grip on ground strokes, but found that I couldn't serve a lick with it, so I removed the overwrap and the Power V insert. However, I wasn't overly impressed with the 133 racket on serves. I wasn't able to generate much pace OR much spin. Might come with more practice.

Meanwhile, I also hit a few balls with the Metallix racket, strung with the PowerMaxx Light Touch natty gut string at 42 lbs. WOW! I got much more power AND spin with it, compared to the Vortex. My serves were effortless, but had lots of action and kick, with good pace. The stringbed also has a very nice damped feel to it, should be very arm friendly. I'm going to order some more of this string immediately.

When I got back home, the other Vortex ES108 racket was sitting on my doorstep. It is strung with old, worn out MSV Hex string, but JoeSh swears it still plays very well that way. We'll see. I defitiely don't want to keep poly in it, so I might have it restrung with the PowerMaxx strings, might consider a hybrid setup.

What I will probably do is play the first mixed doubles set, serve with the Metallix, receive with the Vortex 133. The second session is men's doubles, so I will play with the Metallix, unless I'm REALLY impressed with the Vortex. Last session is mixed again, so I might try out the ES 108.

VOLLEY KING
03-10-2012, 04:50 PM
I completely agree with everything you said.

I found the same issues with the 133. Serving is the big down side. Basically you can only push a serve with it because it's so powerful.

It's also not very good for topsin . But for volleys and return of serves....OMG!

You can practically serve underhanded and still put a volley away. And Even a bomb serve will be returned with ease.

As far a the "V" grip it takes a long time to get used to it. There is a VERY large learning curve and that is the reason it was unsuccessful .

That why I suggested using double sides mounting tape ( wilander does the same ill post it) . This way you can make it thinner and build it up as you become more used to it. I started with only one strip and built it up now to five strips.

VOLLEY KING
03-10-2012, 05:31 PM
Hitman & Joe,

Which MSV Hex do you use and what gauge?

Hitman99
03-11-2012, 08:36 AM
I played with the 133 last night, and also again this morning. Everything that Volley King has said in this thread is pretty much accurate. Service returns and groundies are effortless, ball goes back to the baseline. Very good spin generation with basic strokes --- not outrageous, but very noticeable. I found the serve to be quite good, was able to generate good pace and spin without much strain. However, I am still not getting a dramatic "kick", and placement accuracy is just average. This should improve with practice.

Biggest improvement was with volleys and overheads. This racket was indeed made for doubles.

Despite the specs posted on the Vortex website, this racket does not seem to me to be head light, it actually feels a bit head heavy. It does appear to be HUGE, until you hold it next to a more normal oversize racket.

Re the question about MSV Hex, I haven't used it yet. JoeSh told me the 108 was strung at 50 lbs about two years ago, didn't mention the string gauge. I'm not really sure that I want to restring it with a poly string good for only 8 - 12 hours of play, even though the MSV Hex feels very soft and playable as is. I might try the PowerMaxx Light Touch natty gut at 40 lbs or so, see how I like it.

VOLLEY KING
03-11-2012, 11:57 AM
I understand what Joe is saying .

Poly strings play pretty soft when they are dead. I personally like dead strings better than fresh new polys.

When you get a new poly job they are quite stiff and the tension only lasts a short time anyway. As opposed to dead strings they stay that way.

With dead poly you actually get a nice combination of a softer string but the spin potential of a poly. It's a personal preference.

As far as the 133 it's easy to see if it's headlight or head heavy. Just stick a ruler through the shaft . If it tilts downward with the head facing down then it's head heavy but if it tilts down with the handle side then it's head light.

The big disadvantage with that 133 is serving. I can basically only push the ball and that's why I don't use it. I also have a lot of trouble generating topspin .

It's for a player who has shorter ground strokes or a chip and charger.

For the right player it's the right stick.....but at the net it's really hard to get it by you. It's just a dream for volleying .

I think you will enjoy the 116 better because you can serve harder with it.....but be forewarned its not a great serving stick or topspin stick either .

For both the 116 & 133 you have to stop thinking about aces and start thinking that you will have to win the point on a volley. They are both lethal volley sticks.

The 108 & 100 on the other hand just does everything very well. No weakness .....just not as strong on volleys and returns as the 133 and 116.

I hope that helps? Can't wait for you to try the 108!!

Tim Tennis
03-11-2012, 06:21 PM
Volley King, first let me congratulate you on your never ending quest to improve. That is what makes tennis so exciting, you can always get better. You can experiment with new technologies. You can experiment with changing and improving your mechanics. You can improve your physical fitness. You can also work on the mental aspects of the game. By practicing and drilling you can greatly improve your consistency and develop new shots that will take your game to the next level.

If you bear with me I will make some comments about some of the posts, by the way, which I greatly appreciate.

Volley King, loved your comments on post # 41
“ Ok I know this isn't a racquet but this tiny little gadget has changed my game more than any racquet or string there is . In fact it's the most important of the three!!

I never knew how important your grip is but everything starts from there.

The right grip will give you more power , control and feel than any racquet or strings ....I swear.

This grip changes the angle of your racquet face. You get a far more powerful ball . It's like having a nunchuck in your hand."

My comment, the Power V Grip will definitely close the racquet face angle on both the Semi-Western grip and the Continental, if you place your hand where the Power V Grip encourages you to.

The Power V Grip II may change your racquet face slightly but basically adds significant leverage for all the grips without requiring significant changes in you mechanics.

It also allows you to feel each grip clearly and it locks your hand in strong . For example if your in a continental you can't really cheat and slide into an eastern unless you go out of your way to do it . It's tough to explain.

My comment, You are right on. Thanks!

Babolat tried to copy this recently with a grip with a small bubble or hump in it. But it's not as nearly pronounced as the V grip.

My comment. I don’t know if they tried to copy it or not. I did wonder about that. If they did, what greater compliment could I get? I actually built up some grips like their's and came to the conclusion that it was great for some grips but not so good for others.

Post 41 Your review

continental

The V grip really works well here. The top end of the grip works like a shelf for your index finger .

This V grip has increased the power of my serve , the accuracy and the spin.

For volleys you get increased angels. You can really hit those pro volleys like you see on tv. Love it.

eastern

The V grip actually does not work so well for eastern at all.

It takes away from the space as it goes right on the bevel where the palm of your hand would go.

It does however increase your power but the accuracy goes down a bit.

It also increases the power of the serve with an eastern.

I use it with an eastern (as well as all the grips) but it tool a loooong time to get used to.

semi western

WOW!!! What can i say? You will increase your power your accuracy everything . Just awesome for this.

western

No freaking clue. I can't hit western if my life depended on it ....lol

Conclusion

If you try it you will immediately see a HUGE difference in the way you hit the ball.

My comment. I think you are right on. I can’t hit a Western forehand either. As far as the Eastern, well, I do use it occasionally, probably more then I realize. As far as too how much the Power V Grip benefits the Eastern forehand grip, I think it is the only grip that a standard shaped handle is really good for. Some of my customers are big Eastern forehand users and they love it. Figure that out.

There is a learning curve though because you tend to spray balls all over the place because of the increased power.

It took me actually about 6 months! But I'm glad I stuck with it and I would never go back.

My comment. Wow, not many people would have stuck with it for so long. The SECRET is in understanding your mechanics and how to adjust them to accommodate the changes that the Power V Grips might require. One quick example and I will leave it at that. If you use the Continental grip on your serve and you start hitting the ball into the net, what adjustments do you have to make to get your serve in. Well, you may have to generate more racquet head speed, change your contact point slightly, probably a slight modification in the swing path to generate more forward/horizontal energy. All I can say is that the Power V Grips give you an opportunity to greatly improve you game if you understand the relationship of what grip you are using, swing path, contact point, racquet head speed and the all important racquet face angle.

Post 43 Hitman 99 said: Checked this out on their website. What is the difference between the two grips? I've read the descriptions, can't really tell them apart. Do they both have the sorbothane cushioning?

My comments. Very interesting, a lot of customers order 1 of each, so apparently they have the same problem. I normally encourage them to order the PVG II. I feel it is easier for most people to use yet still greatly benefit their game. Yes, both of them are made of Sorbothane.

Post 44 Volley King said, “Small family owned company so don't be too hard on them.”

Thank you. Yikes!
Post 63 (Volley King to Hitman) Hitman !!! Don't put the power V grip on !!!

There's is a very big learning curve .

The power V grip takes a lot of practice to get used to.

You will be hitting the ball over the fence.

I know the grip doesn't seem like a big deal .....but it's HUGE!!

You are changing the angle of the face of the racquet and you are gaining a sheetload of power. It takes time to control that power.

To play with a V grip for the very first time and use a new racquet is just too much to ask.

My comment. Interesting, what can I say, some people adjust immediately and for some it takes some time. I think a lot depends on how well you move your hand on the handle now and how well you understand your mechanics and what adjustment you may need to make. Don’t quit.

Post 68 Volley King I certainly would not try out the "V" grip in a match.

My comment. I agree. You should really practice and experiment with the PVG before you play a match with it. In a match you are under too much pressure to perform. You do not have the luxury of analyzing and adjusting your mechanics. You become too critical.

Post 71 Hitman I had little trouble adjusting to the Power V grip on ground strokes, but found that I couldn't serve a lick with it, so I removed the overwrap and the Power V insert.

My comment. So what happened on your serve? What aspects of your mechanics do you need to change? Understanding and adjusting could lead to a serve with action, spin and power that you never dreamed you could produce. Who knows? You may have passed over a tremendous opportunity to improve.

Thanks so much for your interest.

Best regards,
Ed

Tennis Geometrics
www.tennisgeometrics.com

mhj202
03-11-2012, 06:24 PM
Best regards,
Ed

Tennis Geometrics
www.tennisgeometrics.com

Ed- PLEASE learn how to use multi-quotes because that post was painful to even try to read through.

Tim Tennis
03-11-2012, 06:34 PM
Thanks, you are so right. I'm even confused and I wrote it. Yikes

Ed

VOLLEY KING
03-11-2012, 08:01 PM
Thanks, you are so right. I'm even confused and I wrote it. Yikes

Ed

Tim ,

Thanks....it's been a battle but I would never go back to a regular grip.

I think you should come out with thinner versions and then build up to the thicker version you sell regularly .

It's such a radical change that people don't want to deal with it. You have to walk before you can run. That's why I told Hitman to first start off with one layer of mounting tale until he felt comfortable enough to use the thicker V grip you sell.

As you can see Hitman couldn't even hit one ball and ripped off the V grip. That's should be proof.

I personally did not give up because I saw how much more power I got . I thought to myself "all I need to do is control that power".

So I started with one piece of mounting tape then two then three until
I got to five . Now I use the V grip without a problem and my game has improved exponentially.

The Angeles I get on the continental grip at the net are amazing ! I never had that before. In fact I never even had topspin until the V grip. My serves are bigger with more angle. It's absolutely amazing! Thank you !

I don't know about the power grip 2 unless that's the softer version?

Fuzzball7
03-11-2012, 10:19 PM
WOW.. These sticks are so sick

VOLLEY KING
03-12-2012, 07:32 AM
Grass court Fila sneakers for clay !!!

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/jebzino/filagrass.jpg

Ok not a racquet.....but a gadget in a sense . I'm to lazy to do another review so I thought I would post this trick that I do.

I got the idea from reading about Andre Agassi. He wore grass sneakers to stop him from sliding at the FO. They banned them because he tore up the courts.....but at my level that really doesn't happen.

I ripped my groin sliding and doing a split on the clay courts. I couldnt play any more on clay because of fear of sliding.

Wearing grass court sneakers on clay allows me to pivot . It's like playing on a hardcourt.

I found the fila shoes to be the most comfortable . Feels like a slipper.

Hitman99
03-12-2012, 08:35 AM
As you can see Hitman couldn't even hit one ball and ripped off the V grip. That's should be proof.


I could hit the ball OK on groundies, but I couldn't serve with it. The problem was not with the grip position, as I have always hit my serves with a Continental/backhand grip, for enhanced spin. In fact, my service grip is more "radical" than almost anyone I have ever played with or against.

Instead, the problem was the the Power V insert is too long as is (by design), needs to be shortened so that the index finger fits over the beveled end (for the Continental grip). Ed's instructions clearly state this, but I was eager to try it out, and just slapped it on the racket without cutting it to size. I am planning to try it again tonight.

I am hoping that the grip will also help me correct a bad habit I have developed, of gripping the racket too far down the handle, so that the butt cap ends in the middle of my palm. I even did this with the Vortex 133, despite its increased length. As I result, I always have a rough callus in my hand, which gets irritated and sore.

VOLLEY KING
03-12-2012, 09:16 AM
It may get irritated and sore but there's nothing wrong with gripping the racquet that way. I think most people do. I'm not sure if this though? I know I do.

I completely agre with you about the V grip being to long. I cut it way way down.

You have to make it custom fit your hand.

tennismonkey
03-12-2012, 09:27 AM
hitman99 was kind enough to let me try out his vortex es 133 for about 20 minutes this weekend. i'm a 4.0 singles/dubs player. full long strokes and my regular racquet is an exo3 tour 18x20 leaded up to 12 ounces even.

in person the spacing between the strings is absolutely huge. i could probably fit a quarter sideways through these holes. balance felt and played about even balance or slightly head heavy. power level was humongous. but the spin is equally humongous. taking full swings from the baseline required changing where i aim. with my regular racquet i'd aim about 5 feet above the net for a regular rally topspin forehand. that same swing with the es 133 launched off my racquet about 15 feet above the net and about 20 feet beyond the baseline. after adjusting my swing accordingly and aiming (in my mind anyway) at the netcord -- yielded a very fast and very spinny forehand that jumps off the court after the bounce. my slice backhands required no adjustment. just instantly more slice and effortless depth.

at net the es 133 was very capable. the even balance definitely showed up here where the size of the racquet and thickness made it feel very slightly cumbersome. fast exchanges at net would not be this racquet's strong point. but effortless power made this racquet as simple as just meeting the ball out front for volleys and it takes care of the rest.

to me control with this racquet was average. i could place it to the corners or down the line but it was always sort of the general vicinity - give or take 5 feet. it's clear this racquet favors much shorter strokes and it takes care of the rest. definitely not designed for pinpoint control.

lastly for such a stiff racquet - this was a super comfy ride. i have wrist and elbow issues and i'm pretty sure i could play with this racquet day in, day out and i'd be fine.

thanks hitman for the fun. i saw you hitting with this racquet and i think it's a good match. with your preferred strings - it'll be ever better.

Hitman99
03-12-2012, 09:57 AM
IMHO, accuracy is pretty good, but will improve with more practice and play time. Using a semi-Western grip on both sides helps control the ball arc, also adds spin. You don't have to do anything special with the 133 to generate spin, it just happens --- as if by magic.

Re the strings, the rackets comes with 15g hex poly strings, brand is proprietary to Vortex. I will be interested to see how long the strings hold up before stretching and losing their pop. Since the other Vortex racket (ES 108) has MSV Hex strings that are over 2 years old, and it still plays well (feels EXTREMELY soft and cushy), maybe the strings in the 133 will also last as long. However, I am not really sold on poly, so I will want to try the PowerMaxx Light Touch natty gut, see how that feels.

The 133 is definitely fun to hit with, puts a smile on your face. :)

VOLLEY KING
03-12-2012, 10:34 AM
hitman99 was kind enough to let me try out his vortex es 133 for about 20 minutes this weekend. i'm a 4.0 singles/dubs player. full long strokes and my regular racquet is an exo3 tour 18x20 leaded up to 12 ounces even.

in person the spacing between the strings is absolutely huge. i could probably fit a quarter sideways through these holes. balance felt and played about even balance or slightly head heavy. power level was humongous. but the spin is equally humongous. taking full swings from the baseline required changing where i aim. with my regular racquet i'd aim about 5 feet above the net for a regular rally topspin forehand. that same swing with the es 133 launched off my racquet about 15 feet above the net and about 20 feet beyond the baseline. after adjusting my swing accordingly and aiming (in my mind anyway) at the netcord -- yielded a very fast and very spinny forehand that jumps off the court after the bounce. my slice backhands required no adjustment. just instantly more slice and effortless depth.

at net the es 133 was very capable. the even balance definitely showed up here where the size of the racquet and thickness made it feel very slightly cumbersome. fast exchanges at net would not be this racquet's strong point. but effortless power made this racquet as simple as just meeting the ball out front for volleys and it takes care of the rest.

to me control with this racquet was average. i could place it to the corners or down the line but it was always sort of the general vicinity - give or take 5 feet. it's clear this racquet favors much shorter strokes and it takes care of the rest. definitely not designed for pinpoint control.

lastly for such a stiff racquet - this was a super comfy ride. i have wrist and elbow issues and i'm pretty sure i could play with this racquet day in, day out and i'd be fine.

thanks hitman for the fun. i saw you hitting with this racquet and i think it's a good match. with your preferred strings - it'll be ever better.


Hey tennis Monkey,

good to meet you.

I had the same thoughts as you .

This racquet is not made for long swings like yours. this is strictly a racquet for shorter swings.

The trick with this stick is to not swing hard. Its clearly not for everyone...I dont play with it either.

I did have a lot of fun with it and at the net I loved it.

VOLLEY KING
03-12-2012, 10:37 AM
IMHO, accuracy is pretty good, but will improve with more practice and play time. Using a semi-Western grip on both sides helps control the ball arc, also adds spin. You don't have to do anything special with the 133 to generate spin, it just happens --- as if by magic.

Re the strings, the rackets comes with 15g hex poly strings, brand is proprietary to Vortex. I will be interested to see how long the strings hold up before stretching and losing their pop. Since the other Vortex racket (ES 108) has MSV Hex strings that are over 2 years old, and it still plays well (feels EXTREMELY soft and cushy), maybe the strings in the 133 will also last as long. However, I am not really sold on poly, so I will want to try the PowerMaxx Light Touch natty gut, see how that feels.

The 133 is definitely fun to hit with, puts a smile on your face. :)

what happened with the 108?? dying to hear!

tennismonkey
03-12-2012, 11:05 AM
VK -- you are right though that the racquet was a lot of fun to play with. the almost comical levels of spin made me try angles that should be impossible. i could almost imagine how federer and especially nadal must feel. when you can hit that much spin and with power too -- the entire court opens up.

wish there was a device or a camera that can record RPM's for us regular joes. i gotta believe these vortex racquets rank right up there.

and yes control is good insomuch as you keep your strokes short. long loopy strokes doesn't mesh well with this 133 anyway. wonder how the smaller headsize vortex sticks do?

VOLLEY KING
03-12-2012, 11:38 AM
VK -- you are right though that the racquet was a lot of fun to play with. the almost comical levels of spin made me try angles that should be impossible. i could almost imagine how federer and especially nadal must feel. when you can hit that much spin and with power too -- the entire court opens up.

wish there was a device or a camera that can record RPM's for us regular joes. i gotta believe these vortex racquets rank right up there.

and yes control is good insomuch as you keep your strokes short. long loopy strokes doesn't mesh well with this 133 anyway. wonder how the smaller headsize vortex sticks do?

I really LOVE their smaller frames.

The ES 100 & 108 and the player thinner version I think the Pro 100 were one of the best sticks that I have ever played with in my life.

Volleys and return of serves were incredible with all of them. The only reason I dont use them is that I just dont care for a thicker framed racquet. There is something about a very thin beam that I just love.

The Pro 100 was relatively thin beamed and a great stick....but i just like the Donnays better for my game. Im a serve and volleyer and the slice is my most important approach shot. Theres something about a very thin frame that allows me to slice more agrresively.

Other than that one stroke I would be playing with a Vortex .

To be honest though the greatest stick I have ever played with was the Blackburne 95. I absolutely love that stick. My absolute holy grail.....the problem is that I just dont want to deal with having them strung. what a nightmare!!!

I play with Poly and Poly becomes lifeless rather quickly. The thought of having to restring the blackburne every other week gives me nightmares.

But if you really want to try something wild then try that stick. But you wont be able to get the 95 because I bought the very last one. you can still get the 107 ...and you may love it. heres a picture of it in case you missed it:

The blackburne ( 97 & 107)

http://80s-tennis.com/images/april2008/rackets/doublestringer-2.jpg

http://www.blackburneds.com/assets/images/homepict.jpg

Roscoe tanner using the blackburne at Wimbledon

http://www.blackburneds.com/assets/images/rosco1.jpg

Hitman99
03-12-2012, 11:58 AM
what happened with the 108?? dying to hear!

I have only hit with it for a few minutes, but it clearly feels much different than the 133. First, it is so SOFT, so much so that it takes away the feel of the strings. Second, the launch angle is much lower, so you have to swing harder and aim higher. Although spin is present, it is much more subtle than the 133. You have to use swing technique to generate the spin.

Saturday night I let one of my friends hit with it. He was probably the strongest male player at a party of 80 people (50+ men), hits much harder than I, and has a vicious serve. He loved the racket for everything except volleys, felt that the racket was too dead to generate any pace.

I will take the 108 with me to my mens doubles match tonight, will warm up with it, try some serves. My original thought was to serve with the 108, use the 133 the rest of the time. However, the feel of the two rackets is so different, not sure that is such a good idea.

VOLLEY KING
03-13-2012, 04:29 AM
Well I think 2 year old dead strings may have something to do with it but joe swears by it??

I personally like like pro supex blue gear ( in white) . Have you seen these strings? They are insane!

Jagged strings most spin I've ever seen.

Hitman99
03-13-2012, 06:04 AM
I hit with the 108 for a while last night, but didn't play with it. I am going to order a couple more sets of the PowerMaxx strings, have the racket restrung.

Meanwhile, I didn't play that well last night with the 133, even though we won the first set, were tied at 4-4 in the second. I served really well, probably the best in many years. I quit trying to spin the ball, just freed up my arm and let loose with some real bombs. I am able to generate some serious juice with the 133 (for me at least).

However, I felt sluggish and late on my ground strokes all night. Both of my opponents are hard hittlers, one is a senior, the other a 40 y.o. USTA 4.5 with vicious topspin. His groundies just handcuffed me all night. My strokes fell apart, and I had way too many unforced errors. I was late on a lot of volleys too.

I've decided to send the 133 back, as much as I enjoy playing with it. Main reason is that it is killing my shoulder. All that power, spin, and leverage from the longer length carries a steep price. The racket FEELS comfortable, but it is definitely making my shoulder worse. I had trouble sleeping last night, and am thinking I probably need to take some time off to heal up.

So, I will get the 108 restrung, focus on learning how to hit with it, work on my swing technique. Maybe after my shoulder heals I can give the 133 another try. It is a WEAPON.

VOLLEY KING
03-13-2012, 08:09 AM
Hitman,

Don't kill yourself to like the racquet. You said you love the power angle .

Just stick with that.

At the very least it's just fun to try different sticks.

Hitman99
03-13-2012, 09:50 AM
Unfortunately, discovered that the PowerAngle frame has a crack in it, near one of the upper grommet holes. My stringer said that sometimes a crack can be repaired with fiberglass, but I am doubtful.

I still have a Head Metallix, freshly strung with PowerMaxx natty gut, that I can play with. I am also planning to restring the Vortex 108, see how that plays. If it is as soft as the worn-out MSV Hex, should be OK.

VOLLEY KING
03-13-2012, 10:18 AM
So what if there's a crack. Maybe that's why you play so well with it??lol.

Gorecki
03-14-2012, 06:32 AM
may i ask why you use random pictures from internet websites if you own al these racquets...?

VOLLEY KING
03-14-2012, 06:57 AM
may i ask why you use random pictures from internet websites if you own al these racquets...?

Because I can't figure out how to load them and put them on this board.

mhj202
03-14-2012, 07:10 AM
Because I can't figure out how to load them and put them on this board.

Here you go (see second post on how to post pics):

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=319306

Gorecki
03-14-2012, 07:15 AM
now you know how to do it, lets see some real pictures of your frames... i'm curious!!!

VOLLEY KING
03-14-2012, 08:30 AM
now you know how to do it, lets see some real pictures of your frames... i'm curious!!!

Thank you!!!

I'll try when I get home .

Gorecki
03-14-2012, 09:18 AM
Thank you!!!

I'll try when I get home .

yeah. that would be nice!

VOLLEY KING
03-14-2012, 09:32 AM
yeah. that would be nice!

Glad to help out . Xoxoxo

Hitman99
03-14-2012, 09:34 AM
[QUOTE=Hitman99;6387505]I hit with the 108 for a while last night, but didn't play with it. I am going to order a couple more sets of the PowerMaxx strings, have the racket restrung.

I've decided to send the 133 back, as much as I enjoy playing with it. Main reason is that it is killing my shoulder. All that power, spin, and leverage from the longer length carries a steep price. The racket FEELS comfortable, but it is definitely making my shoulder worse. I had trouble sleeping last night, and am thinking I probably need to take some time off to heal up.QUOTE]

I emailed Vortex, got a nice email back from Tom, the owner. He suggested cutting the overall length of the racket back to 27 3/4", said he plays with the racket at that length, helps reduce the effective swing weight. He graciously offered to do it for me if I ship the racket back. I have done this before on one of my other rackets, but still might take him up on it, just to make sure I don't screw it up somehow.

So, I am going to keep the racket, will play with the ES 108 or my Head Metallix until my shoulder feels better.

tennismonkey
03-14-2012, 09:40 AM
hitman - what is the length of the es 133 normally? i didn't realize when i tried it that it was a superlong. that definitely makes sense why i found it slightly sluggish and cumbersome up at net.

Hitman99
03-14-2012, 10:26 AM
hitman - what is the length of the es 133 normally? i didn't realize when i tried it that it was a superlong. that definitely makes sense why i found it slightly sluggish and cumbersome up at net.

It's 28-1/2". The extra length provides great reach, but hinders the maneuverability IMHO.

My previous racket, the Wilson Hyper Carbon Hammer 2.0, was also extended length, so I cut about 3/4" off of it. It plays pretty well now, but the frame is so stiff that it also hurts my arm/shoulder.

VOLLEY KING
03-14-2012, 10:40 AM
Tom uses it in USTA seniors. It's not the right choice for me but works for him :

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s320x320/301347_10150339420379807_160320609806_8242127_5899 66157_n.jpg

tennismonkey
03-14-2012, 10:41 AM
gotcha. that makes sense. i find 27.5 inch sticks about my limit for extended length. i hit upper hoop in regular length sticks. wonder if extended length helps hit more dead center.

couldn't you just choke up on the es 133 and see if that alleviates the problem before taking a saw to it?

Hitman99
03-14-2012, 11:48 AM
gotcha. that makes sense. i find 27.5 inch sticks about my limit for extended length. i hit upper hoop in regular length sticks. wonder if extended length helps hit more dead center.

couldn't you just choke up on the es 133 and see if that alleviates the problem before taking a saw to it?

I just don't have that level of self control on the court. No matter what length racket I use, I always end up gripping the racket all the way at the end, with the butt end in the middle of my palm. I always have a nasty callus in the middl of my palm, gets irritated and sore, PITA.

One of the 4.5 guys I play with uses a Wilson Outer Limits (135 head, 28-1/2" length). He always chokes down on the racket quite a bit. I just can't do it for more than a few minutes, then I forget and lapse back to my old ways.

Guess I'm just a recidivist. I've been called worse before....

Hitman99
03-17-2012, 08:12 AM
OK, I finally got to hit with the Vortex ES 108 yesterday, hit for over an hour outdoors in a mild breeze. The racket is strung with MSV Hex @ 50 lbs, string is about 2 years old. The feel of the racket is unlike any other I have ever hit with, VERY plush and soft, feels like you're hitting with a foam rubber frame, with leather strings.

This racket is not nearly so powerful as the 133, requires a full swing to drive the ball deep. If I didn't take a full swing, the ball would invariably go into the net, or land quite short. After a while, I found that this really helped my strokes, and I got more and more consistent the longer I played. There was little or no trampolining at all. Even so, i found it fairly easy to drive baseline half-volleys deep into the court. A few times I got caught hitting a FH with the wrong grip, was able to zing back a FH slice with good pace and depth. Overall, I felt very comfortable with the racket. The few serves I hit felt very natural, went in the court with little effort.

Now I am ready to have the racket restrung, am wondering what strings to use. I have a package of Tecnifibre X-One Biphase 17g, and a couple sets of PowerMaxx Light Touch 16L natty gut. I am thinking of trying a hybrid setup at low tension. The previous owner of the racket recommended that I stick with the MSV Hex at 50 lbs, and I've also been reading about the WeissCannon Dual Reality hybrid setup, supposed to be very easy on the arm/shoulder.

So many options!!! Guess I will start with a hybrid setup, X-One crosses @ 50, PowerMaxx mains @ 45.

VOLLEY KING
03-17-2012, 09:14 AM
Vortex actually makes a great multi in 15 gauge that I liked very much.

Hitman99
03-18-2012, 06:39 AM
Vortex actually makes a great multi in 15 gauge that I liked very much.

I think I'll try a hybrid setup with the strings that I already have in my possession, see how I like them. Chances are that they won't last as long because of the thinner gauge. If so, I can try the Vortex hybrid string next.

BTW, I hit again yesterday, in a stronger breeze. After a very short time, I switched from the ES 108 to the 133. Wow, the 133 is the BOMB in the wind! It is so powerful that hitting into the wind it is EZ to drive the ball deep, just have to hit it high, with some top. Every shot I hit into the wind landed at least halfway between the service line and the baseline, and many were right on the baseline. I could whack BH slices as hard as possible, and they would flare out and settle right on the baseline, and then just DIE. Hitting with the wind was equally effective, 'cause I could easily slice the ball off both sides, keep the ball low.

VOLLEY KING
03-18-2012, 07:32 AM
The 133 is a fun racquet for sure .

Puts a smile on my face.

I think you may have called it right from the beginning and the 116 may be just right for you.

But if you love that powerangle then I think that's actually the best.

Fun to play around anyway.

Hitman99
03-18-2012, 09:02 AM
There is a 116 for sale on the auction site, but the price is too high. It is listed with a "Best Offer" option, so if it doesn't sell, I might make a last-minute offer. I could end up with three different Vortex rackets!

The PowerAngle is a dead issue, at least for the time being. The frame is cracked, could be a design flaw.

VOLLEY KING
03-18-2012, 05:15 PM
There is a 116 for sale on the auction site, but the price is too high. It is listed with a "Best Offer" option, so if it doesn't sell, I might make a last-minute offer. I could end up with three different Vortex rackets!

The PowerAngle is a dead issue, at least for the time being. The frame is cracked, could be a design flaw.

Can't you buy another one?

Hitman99
03-18-2012, 05:47 PM
Can't you buy another one?

Yes, I could buy another one. But one can only have so many rackets, and do any of them justice. I am encouraged enough by my experience with the Vortex rackets to want to complete my exploration of their capabilities.

The one drawback I see with the PowerAngle Grand racket is that it is several points head heavy, and I like the neutral balance of the Vortex. Also, there is some sort of vibration in the racket, not sure if it can be tamed with the right stringing setup. Several playtest feedbacks have mentioned this vibration. The demo racket I tried from TW was strung with Wilson NXT, and I didn't care for the feel. The one I bought at auction was strung with a poly @ 60 lbs. It played OK, but I was worried about the impact on my shoulder. So far, the Vortex rackets have not seemed to irritate my shoulder.

VOLLEY KING
03-18-2012, 06:39 PM
Gotcha.

Good luck !

tennismonkey
03-18-2012, 06:46 PM
hitman -- assuming the powerangle or vortex sticks aren't too heavy - either static weight or swingweight - it's not too hard to get either balanced the way you like it. for the powerangle you can add a bit of lead or weight to the handle and even that balance out or even make it HL. just a thought when you come across a stick that does 95% of what you want but missing a certain something.

tennismonkey
03-18-2012, 06:48 PM
btw look at the specs of the prince O3 white that john isner is playing with. naturally his is leaded up pretty beastly but its:

100 sq. in. / 645 sq. cm.
Length: 27 inches / 69 cm
Strung Weight: 11.3oz / 320g
Balance: 4pts Head Light
Swingweight: 322
Stiffness: 65
Beam Width: 23-25-22 Tapered Beam
Composition: GraphitExtreme / Copper / Titanium / Tungsten
Power Level: Low-Medium
Swing Speed: Moderate-Fast
Grip Type: Cushion Fit
String Pattern:
16 Mains / 19 Crosses

VOLLEY KING
03-18-2012, 07:01 PM
Funny you should say that. I was looking at it as well.

I really love that kid.

He just seems so nice.

Great to see an American finally back in the mix . He has won me over and I really hope he can win something . He is really exciting to watch .

But I digress .

tennismonkey
03-18-2012, 07:14 PM
VK -- i like the kid too. liked his comment regarding fed's lucky backhand lob in the 1st set tiebreak - he took it in stride and said he benefitted from a lot of luck this past week too. no complaints. it's a big if -- but if he can improve his groundies even more than he already has, he can crack the top 5 i think. i think he plays how i wish roddick would have in his prime - big serve, big forehand, and never let your opponents get any rhythm.

o3 white is a solid stick. nice weight stock and surprisingly comfy. only 65 stiffness and those huge holes makes for a soft ride.

VOLLEY KING
03-18-2012, 08:05 PM
Yeah he is a giant with a baby face. I think everyone likes him .

The stick looks really interesting . It's just the right weight and balance that I like......

I was surprised however how thick the beam was.

It must be powerful?

Hitman99
03-19-2012, 03:09 AM
I watched the entire match yesterday, was struck with how easily Isner moves around the court, always seems to be in position without having to scramble. First set it seemed that he was playing well within himself, not forcing any shots, hitting good pace without trying to hit clean winners. As the match wore on, he started hitting out more, made a few more unforced errors. Federer just picked him apart with placement, combined with his usual pace and spin --- deadly combination.

Have to admire Fed for how he has risen to the challenges to his supremacy, elevated his game. What a champion! Hopefully Isner is now in that elite company for good.

Re his racket, noticed the comment about the comfy feel resulting from the wider string spacing. That's another reason I like the Vortex rackets, they feel so EZ on the arm/shoulder.

VOLLEY KING
03-20-2012, 07:15 AM
I have to hand it to Fed.....his returns were amazing .

Fed is the better player for sure.....but I just love this kid. I think everyone does.....he is a giant with a baby face. He is also really fun to watch.

I really hope he keeps it up. I would love to see the USA win a grand slam. Is great to see him in the top 10.

I'm glad you like the Vortex. They are very nice sticks. I have the 116 and just won't part with it. It's a great racquet and possibly their best doubles racquet.

It's like a 133 "light".....less power and more maneuverability . A monster at the net.

Hitman99
03-20-2012, 11:24 AM
I think I mentioned that Tom (from Vortex) recommended that I cut the 133 frame back to 27-3/4" --- he says that what he uses for USTA play.

So, a few minutes ago I got out my hacksaw, cut 1/2" off the shaft, put a new gel-cushioned grip on the racket. I was afraid to cut off 3/4", thought I would go one step at a time.

I have a USTA dubs match this Friday afternoon, can't wait to get into competition.

Meanwhile, my shipment of PowerMaxx Light Touch natty gut came in, so I will get the 108 restrung ASAP to see how it plays.

VOLLEY KING
03-20-2012, 01:55 PM
I think I mentioned that Tom (from Vortex) recommended that I cut the 133 frame back to 27-3/4" --- he says that what he uses for USTA play.

So, a few minutes ago I got out my hacksaw, cut 1/2" off the shaft, put a new gel-cushioned grip on the racket. I was afraid to cut off 3/4", thought I would go one step at a time.

I have a USTA dubs match this Friday afternoon, can't wait to get into competition.

Meanwhile, my shipment of PowerMaxx Light Touch natty gut came in, so I will get the 108 restrung ASAP to see how it plays.

OMG.....your kidding!!!! You are too funny.....I think you are as crazy as I am!!

Maybe I should have done that?? It's a very odd stick. It's definitely fun to play with.

That really does sound like a good plan I must admit. I never thought of doing that? You have to tell me the results .

But why can't you get the 116? Is Tom and Joe sold out??

Good luck with the 108! It's a bit more demanding than the 133. The strings will make a big difference.

You are pretty dedicated....sawing off the handle .....omg!!!

You complete me :-).


.

Hitman99
03-20-2012, 03:18 PM
LOL! This is NOT such a big deal. I did the same thing with my Wilson Hyper Carbon Hammer 2.0, and it turned out just fine.

I tried to order an ES 116, but Vortex was back ordered, so I switched to the 133. I still might try to get my hands on a 116 --- might as well get acquainted with the whole family! The auction ends in 13 hours, so I might put in a "best offer" bid, see if it gets accepted. I kinda doubt it though.

We'll see. Meanwhile, going to a USTA practice team session tomorrow morning, so we'll see how the modded 133 plays.

One thing I've noticed is that the black color of the strings has alread worn off at all the string intersections. This beast might go through strings like water.

VOLLEY KING
03-20-2012, 04:22 PM
LOL! This is NOT such a big deal. I did the same thing with my Wilson Hyper Carbon Hammer 2.0, and it turned out just fine.

I tried to order an ES 116, but Vortex was back ordered, so I switched to the 133. I still might try to get my hands on a 116 --- might as well get acquainted with the whole family! The auction ends in 13 hours, so I might put in a "best offer" bid, see if it gets accepted. I kinda doubt it though.

We'll see. Meanwhile, going to a USTA practice team session tomorrow morning, so we'll see how the modded 133 plays.

One thing I've noticed is that the black color of the strings has alread worn off at all the string intersections. This beast might go through strings like water.


Lol...."the beast ".....perfect description.

I hope you get the 116.....it's probably the right one of ever there was one you liked.

Try the multi from vortex they are pretty good.

I'm really glad your enjoying the sticks. As you guys said "it puts a smile on your face."

Good luck in USTA!!!! I hope "the beast" works out for you. :-)


.

Autodidactic player
03-24-2012, 08:56 AM
You could always go illegal and use the Gamma Big Bubba 32", Dunlop Superlong Max 2.25, BBC Titan Graphite or Weed I. :)

http://i43.tinypic.com/2cwlv1j.jpg

VOLLEY KING
03-24-2012, 11:54 AM
You could always go illegal and use the Gamma Big Bubba 32", Dunlop Superlong Max 2.25, BBC Titan Graphite or Weed I. :)

http://i43.tinypic.com/2cwlv1j.jpg

Cool!!!

Have you ever hit with them?

Autodidactic player
03-24-2012, 12:22 PM
Cool!!!

Have you ever hit with them?

I've hit with all of them. Believe it or not the oldest, the Weed I (about 1977), plays the best; a little like the original Prince Classic just with a bigger head. It's illegal because the longest main string is ½” longer than allowed and the head is ½” wider than allowed. The Gamma is so long (3" longer than allowed) and so wide (12 ½”, the max allowed) you actually feel wind resistance when you swing! The Dunlop, which is "only" .25" longer than legal, is a bit better but its so powerful it's almost impossible to control your shots. The BBC is easily the worst playing with its enormous flex but it's also the coolest looking! The BBC's longest main string is 20 ½” long, 5” longer than allowed!

VOLLEY KING
03-24-2012, 12:37 PM
I woul love to hit with them.

Does it really give you an advantage or is it a gimmick ?

VOLLEY KING
03-24-2012, 12:41 PM
Speaking of illegal racquets.....I heard that the Head TIs7 is amazing! I've been dying to get my hands on one .

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3250/2447460972_a3d8a7a0d5_t.jpg

Autodidactic player
03-24-2012, 01:00 PM
If you want to hit with a really fun illegal racket track down a Dynaspot movable mass racket. The head is filled with fluid which moves toward the tip as you swing. The result is like the Wilson hammer rackets on steroids!

http://i44.tinypic.com/117uv6s.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/14l7w9z.jpg

VOLLEY KING
03-24-2012, 01:02 PM
I've see that thing on the net!!! Have you actually tried it???

Autodidactic player
03-24-2012, 01:13 PM
I have! I've been collecting odd, unusual and illegal rackets for years. Unless they are NOS when I find them I always hit at least a few shots with each racket. The only exception I can remember making is for the Dunlop Twin Shaft since they are notorious for breaking at the welds on almost any shot.

http://i39.tinypic.com/345l9co.jpg

VOLLEY KING
03-24-2012, 01:19 PM
Omg!!!!! There's someone else out there like me????


Awesome stuff......That Dunlop looks really cool.

But I'm seriously interested in that dynaspot. What is it like????

Really interested.

Autodidactic player
03-24-2012, 01:45 PM
The best way I can describe the Dynaspot is to compare it to the Hammer or Power Weight system rackets except the extra weight is only there on contact. I know that sounds unusual but when you are not swinging the fluid settles to the bottom of the head and the racket feels almost head light; this quality makes getting racket head speed much easier than a typical head heavy racket. Because you can generate good racket head speed, because the racket is head light when you start your stroke, and still get the benefit of head heavy mass at contact you can really generate great power but you still have good control. In my view the Dynaspot technology certainly provides an advantage over a traditional racket and I understand why it's illegal. Kind of like spaghetti stringing - it works!

Show us some more of your collection!

VOLLEY KING
03-24-2012, 01:56 PM
The best way I can describe the Dynaspot is to compare it to the Hammer or Power Weight system rackets except the extra weight is only there on contact. I know that sounds unusual but when you are not swinging the fluid settles to the bottom of the head and the racket feels almost head light; this quality makes getting racket head speed much easier than a typical head heavy racket. Because you can generate good racket head speed, because the racket is head light when you start your stroke, and still get the benefit of head heavy mass at contact you can really generate great power but you still have good control. In my view the Dynaspot technology certainly provides an advantage over a traditional racket and I understand why it's illegal. Kind of like spaghetti stringing - it works!

Show us some more of your collection!

Ok that does it !!!! I have to get one ! Thank you. I'm going to look on the bay. Thanks!!!

I have the spaghetti string. I have an old kneissel/Adidas strung with it.

It is certainly cool.....but not revolutionary . I don't really understand why they made it illegal. But I guess the pros know how to make it do really amazing things .

.

Autodidactic player
03-24-2012, 02:16 PM
...

I have the spaghetti string. I have an old kneissel/Adidas strung with it.

It is certainly cool.....but not revolutionary . I don't really understand why they made it illegal. But I guess the pros know how to make it do really amazing things.

Take a look at a match from the late 70's on Youtube and you'll quickly see why spaghetti stringing was banned. By today's standards there was almost no topspin back then. Even Borg, the player with the most topspin off both sides back then, wasn't hitting what even average pros hit today. Spaghetti stringing allowed crazy, unpredictable, amounts of spin that even the best pros were not used to. Even Guillermo Vilas, who hit really big topspin for his day, complained that lesser players were getting an enormous advantage. That's why is was banned. With modern rackets and polyester strings (that snap back after contact like the spaghetti strings did) today's players can generate considerably more topspin than was possible in the 70's so spaghetti stringing, while still giving a spin advantage, isn't quite the advantage now that it was back then.

VOLLEY KING
03-24-2012, 02:38 PM
Oh believe me I am fascinated wit spaghetti strings .

I bought the racquet for $300 , and I plays with it.

I read everything I could and I even watched the nastase vs vilas match.

I think in the right hands it probably is devastating . But I didn't get that much of an advantage with it.

I'm sure however a guy like Nastase did !!

Hitman99
03-24-2012, 08:05 PM
[QUOTE=Autodidactic player;6419692]If you want to hit with a really fun illegal racket track down a Dynaspot movable mass racket. The head is filled with fluid which moves toward the tip as you swing. The result is like the Wilson hammer rackets on steroids!

QUOTE]

So why is it illegal?

Larrysümmers
03-24-2012, 09:19 PM
cuz you cant have fluid movin around in your racket, bro

zapvor
03-24-2012, 10:10 PM
If you want to hit with a really fun illegal racket track down a Dynaspot movable mass racket. The head is filled with fluid which moves toward the tip as you swing. The result is like the Wilson hammer rackets on steroids!
MG]

where did you get it? i been trying to track one down for a while

VOLLEY KING
03-25-2012, 03:46 AM
cuz you cant have fluid movin around in your racket, bro

That makes no sense.

The pro kennex kinetic series has all kinds of crap .....like little sand particles move all around the racquet . So why the hell not liquid ?

Autodidactic player
03-25-2012, 05:10 AM
That makes no sense.

The pro kennex kinetic series has all kinds of crap .....like little sand particles move all around the racquet . So why the hell not liquid ?

Here is the exact rule:

"The frame, including the handle, and the strings, shall be free of any device which makes it possible to change materially the shape of the racket, or to change materially the weight distribution in the direction of the longitudinal axis of the racket which would alter the swing moment of inertia, or to change deliberately any physical property which may affect the performance of the racket during the playing of a point. No energy source that in any way changes or affects the playing characteristics of a racket may be built into or attached to a racket." ITF Rules of Tennis, Appendix III(c)

The whole point of the Dynaspot is to "alter the swing moment of inertia" and "affect the performance of the racket during the playing of a point." The point of the lead particles in the Pro Kennex rackets, according to the manufacturer, is to reduce vibrations and make the racket more comfortable to use. Check out this study (www.prokennex.nl/download/University-of-Koln-Kinetic-Study.pdf).

VOLLEY KING
03-25-2012, 06:15 AM
Here is the exact rule:



The whole point of the Dynaspot is to "alter the swing moment of inertia" and "affect the performance of the racket during the playing of a point." The point of the lead particles in the Pro Kennex rackets, according to the manufacturer, is to reduce vibrations and make the racket more comfortable to use. Check out this study (www.prokennex.nl/download/University-of-Koln-Kinetic-Study.pdf).

So all dyanspot would have to do is say "our purpose is to reduce vibrations" and poof it's legal?

Autodidactic player
03-25-2012, 06:35 AM
So all dyanspot would have to do is say "our purpose is to reduce vibrations" and poof it's legal?

No! The fluid in the Dynaspot is free flowing; it travels all the way around the head of the racket and is designed to move toward the top of the head during your swing. In other words by design it "alter[s] the swing moment of inertia." The particles in the Pro Kennex are en-capsulized and designed not to move "in the direction of the longitudinal axis of the racket" and thus it does not "alter the swing moment of inertia." This design feature makes the Pro Kennex legal and the Dynaspot illegal.

VOLLEY KING
03-25-2012, 06:45 AM
No! The fluid in the Dynaspot is free flowing; it travels all the way around the head of the racket and is designed to move toward the top of the head during your swing. In other words by design it "alter[s] the swing moment of inertia." The particles in the Pro Kennex are en-capsulized and designed not to move "in the direction of the longitudinal axis of the racket" and thus it does not "alter the swing moment of inertia." This design feature makes the Pro Kennex legal and the Dynaspot illegal.

I have a pro kennex ....in fact I'm holding one right now. Those crystals do in fact move to the top of the racquet. I'm shaking it and I can feel it. But maybe I'm wrong and it just feels that way?

.

Autodidactic player
03-25-2012, 07:08 AM
I have a pro kennex ....in fact I'm holding one right now. Those crystals do in fact move to the top of the racquet. I'm shaking it and I can feel it. But maybe I'm wrong and it just feels that way?

From what I understand, Pro Kennex got around the rule by putting the particles in "chambers" around the head and allowing the particles to move in a legal latitudinal direction (≈1/4 inch) but not an illegal longitudinal direction (≈12 inches). So, if the chambers in your racket are still intact, what you are probably feeling is the legal latitudinal movement. I know I can hear the particles move in my Pro Kennex but it doesn't seem like they move around the head. Unfortunately, the Pro Kennex is not clear so you can't see the particles moving. The fluid chamber for the Dynaspot is clear and you can see the fluid moving.

VOLLEY KING
03-25-2012, 07:12 AM
From what I understand, Pro Kennex got around the rule by putting the particles in "chambers" around the head and allowing the particles to move in a legal latitudinal direction (≈1/4 inch) but not an illegal longitudinal direction (≈12 inches). So, if the chambers in your racket are still intact, what you are probably feeling is the legal latitudinal movement. I know I can hear the particles move in my Pro Kennex but it doesn't seem like they move around the head. Unfortunately, the Pro Kennex is not clear so you can't see the particles moving. The fluid chamber for the Dynaspot is clear and you can see the fluid moving.

Makes sense.

Do you think it should have been made illegal? Does it really give you that much of an advantage. ?

I looked on the bay and can't find one . Any chance you would part with yours?

.

Frank Silbermann
03-25-2012, 07:15 AM
For a few years I used a 125" Prince POG. The distance of the sweet spot was so far from the edge of the frame, I had severe difficulty picking up low balls -- even when using a Continental grip. It can only be worse with a wider racket and a grip that forces you to life low balls by violently brushing up on them.

VOLLEY KING
03-25-2012, 07:21 AM
For a few years I used a 125" Prince POG. The distance of the sweet spot was so far from the edge of the frame, I had severe difficulty picking up low balls -- even when using a Continental grip. It can only be worse with a wider racket and a grip that forces you to life low balls by violently brushing up on them.

What are you driving at? Do you mean the vortex 133 ?

The stringing system in the vortex and the actual design of the frame and throat are unique.

It works.

Autodidactic player
03-25-2012, 07:49 AM
Makes sense.

Do you think it should have been made illegal? Does it really give you that much of an advantage. ?

I looked on the bay and can't find one . Any chance you would part with yours?

Interesting questions. Yes, I believe it should be illegal because it provides an advantage, to someone skilled enough to use it, over a traditional racket. I am, however, conflicted because the Dyanspot advantage is not nearly as significant as composite versus wood in racket design or polyester versus nylon in strings or even 100 inch heads versus 60 inch heads. My bottom line is that everyone should play by the same rules so overall I'm happy with enforceable rules - even if sometimes they don't make complete sense.

As far as selling mine, sorry; I've only got one of these. They do come up from time to time on the auction sites and I've even seen them for sale here in the classifieds. While you are searching, look for any of the Maynard Air rackets, they are loads of fun as well:

http://i44.tinypic.com/167l5yc.jpg

neil1b
03-25-2012, 08:29 AM
I'll post my pics tonigh of my weird stuff.

VOLLEY KING
03-25-2012, 09:24 AM
http://www.24teeth.com/uploads/images/timeline/equijet-tennis-racquet.jpg

Does anyone have one of these????

Lacoste Equijet mid 80′s

Used by Guy Forget.

No it isn’t sun damaged! Another interesting Lacoste design which aims to change the sweet spot via altered string tensions. It has a unique Vibration system in the butt cap which carried through to the Wilson T5000 model

Autodidactic player
03-25-2012, 09:33 AM
I'll match your Equijet and raise you a Polygon! :)

http://i40.tinypic.com/eafb0k.jpg

VOLLEY KING
03-25-2012, 01:33 PM
Oh man!!!!!!!!


You are my new idol!!!!! I'm changing my avatar to go Autodidactic!!!!!

Sheet!!!! You have to tell us a little about that equijet......

Octagon is nice for sure ......I already have the Bosworth Fox octagon one myself.bi never actually tried it though .

So what do you think of this two sticks your holiness ? :-).

That's it .....I'm going to figure out how the hell to post my pics .

To me my coolest stick is the spaghetti strung.....do I actually have you beat there? Can you match that? If not I will raise you one Blackburne.....


This will be cool . Let's play crazy racquet poker ?

.

Autodidactic player
03-25-2012, 01:50 PM
Oh man!!!!!!!!


You are my new idol!!!!! I'm changing my avatar to go Autodidactic!!!!!

Sheet!!!! You have to tell us a little about that equijet......

Octagon is nice for sure ......I already have the Bosworth Fox octagon one myself.bi never actually tried it though .

So what do you think of this two sticks your holiness ? :-).

That's it .....I'm going to figure out how the hell to post my pics .

To me my coolest stick is the spaghetti strung.....do I actually have you beat there? Can you match that? If not I will raise you one Blackburne.....


This will be cool . Let's play crazy racquet poker ?

.

OK, here is a spaghetti strung T-2000:

http://i40.tinypic.com/v9od3.jpg

I'll call your Blackburn:

http://i44.tinypic.com/aw2wd0.jpg

and raise you another double string face racket the Intertennis Twin:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2ce6jhh.jpg

VOLLEY KING
03-25-2012, 01:55 PM
Damn you. :-)

Ok I'm going to get medieval on you now.

I'm getting my mad raqs and my natural racquet.

I just am downloading an iPhone app that will hopefully allow me to post pics.

Do you have those ?

VOLLEY KING
03-25-2012, 01:58 PM
You are the Federer of crazy racquets.

What the hell is that "intertennis twin"?????

When did that come out??

Can you talk a little about it?

Autodidactic player
03-25-2012, 02:00 PM
Damn you. :-)

Ok I'm going to get medieval on you now.

I'm getting my mad raqs and my natural racquet.

I just am downloading an iPhone app that will hopefully allow me to post pics.

Do you have those ?

Got um! :)

http://i41.tinypic.com/fuuw49.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/vo1p3b.jpg

VOLLEY KING
03-25-2012, 02:08 PM
Ok fawk you. OMG!!!!

Hmmmmm......I'm getting desperate now because I pretty much shot my load .

How about a MITT I have one of those as well.


Oh almost forgot I have the Mcgergor with the crazy stringing system . I believe it is also octagon shaped !!!! Do you have that ???

Autodidactic player
03-25-2012, 02:08 PM
You are the Federer of crazy racquets.

What the hell is that "intertennis twin"?????

When did that come out??

Can you talk a little about it?

The Twin was patented in 1976 and came out a few years later. It didn't sell very well because it's truly an awful frame! Crazy flexible and damn near impossible to string. Pick up Siegfried Kuebler's "Book of Tennis Rackets," (very expensive but worth it) the Intertennis Twin is shown on page 216.

Autodidactic player
03-25-2012, 02:28 PM
Ok fawk you. OMG!!!!

Hmmmmm......I'm getting desperate now because I pretty much shot my load .

How about a MITT I have one of those as well.


Oh almost forgot I have the Mcgergor with the crazy stringing system . I believe it is also octagon shaped !!!! Do you have that ???

I've got the MacGregor:

http://i39.tinypic.com/ebe88z.jpg

and I never found any of the Mitt rackets that unusual. I prefer rackets that are a bit odder like the Erge:

http://i42.tinypic.com/125nxis.jpg

VOLLEY KING
03-25-2012, 02:48 PM
True mitt not that an unusual.....but it I the only racquet ever made with moving parts.....any way just give me a bone.

The reason I have not posted pics is because for the past half hour I have been trying to figure out how to do it with the iPhone.

I've given up . Now I will try with the computer.

How about the Vortex??? You can beat it of course with a Hi ten !

VOLLEY KING
03-25-2012, 03:21 PM
HOLY CRAP!!!! I did it ....it only took me an hour...but I fina;lly figured out how to post a pic.

It was what I had handy....here is my Vortex es 100.

The stringing has a really wide pattern like the old hit tens...i think its 14 x 16 or something. The frame looks normal but its not......the throat is placed in such a way to give more stability...but i dont quite understand it.

This company first made the tennis wand or something.




http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/8797/vortexc.jpg

Hitman99
03-25-2012, 05:24 PM
HOLY CRAP!!!! I did it ....it only took me an hour...but I fina;lly figured out how to post a pic.

It was what I had handy....here is my Vortex es 100.

The stringing has a really wide pattern like the old hit tens...i think its 14 x 16 or something. The frame looks normal but its not......the throat is placed in such a way to give more stability...but i dont quite understand it.

This company first made the tennis wand or something.


Wonder Wand.

VOLLEY KING
03-25-2012, 05:28 PM
Wonder Wand.

Yeah that's it .

I never got my hands on one of those or even seen One.

VOLLEY KING
03-25-2012, 06:52 PM
Pictured below is my Mitt tennis racquet. I turned it on its side because that's where it's different . The racquet has these little silver plastic things ....I'm not sure you can see them. Anyway the strings go over them it they cause the strings to move or "rock".....similar to the old Wilson rollers.

Mitt claims to be the only racquet with moving parts.....but then the rollers tried the same thing in a different way .

It allows for a real comfy feeling and I think puts a bit more spin on te ball.


http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8042/imageephz.jpg

Autodidactic player
03-26-2012, 01:21 PM
...

How about the Vortex??? You can beat it of course with a Hi ten !

I wanted to wait until I could dig up my Kennex Micro-System racket because I thought it would make an excellent contrast. Here ya go - the widest and narrowest stringing patterns in one photo. :)

http://i40.tinypic.com/21axoo1.jpg

VOLLEY KING
03-26-2012, 01:27 PM
Oh man !!!!!!!!!

You are freakinh amazing.

I bought the Vortex because I couldn't get the snauwert . I had to settle.

You have got to tell us what it's like hitting with it.......and I would pay you a lot of money for the racquet......I'm serious. A LOT!

Let me know and I will make you a very generous offer.

Did I mention that I hate you . :-).

Completely jealous .

ricki
03-26-2012, 01:35 PM
I wanted to wait until I could dig up my Kennex Micro-System racket because I thought it would make an excellent contrast. Here ya go - the widest and narrowest stringing patterns in one photo. :)

http://i40.tinypic.com/21axoo1.jpg

arghh these 2 sticks are my dream to have in my tiny collection

blipblop
03-26-2012, 01:50 PM
God some crazy rackets in here lol.

Has anyone ever seen a racket that has the plane of the hoop/stringbed, at an angle respective to the plane of the handle?

Like a spatula:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h81/ccadayi2ok/Talk%20Tennis/spatula.jpg

I've always been interested in how the angle could help you get disguise and spin. You could also hit the ball wayyyy in front or behind of yourself. I'm thinking like a 5-35 degree inclination. 45 degrees and up would be too crazy.

VOLLEY KING
03-26-2012, 01:52 PM
The natural racquet actually has that angle.

Its weird. When serving you have to aim for the fences. lol.

Autodidactic player
03-26-2012, 01:52 PM
...
You have got to tell us what it's like hitting with it ...

The Hi-Ten is new old stock so, sadly, I've elected not to hit with it. I have, however, hit with the Pro Kennex. Like the Hi-Ten, it is advertised to provide more spin and greater control. The Pro Kennex theory suggests that by contacting the ball with more string surface you could achieve more spin. Snauwaert, of course, argued that just the opposite was true. From my perspective all the Pro Kennex did was reduce power. The string surface feels very, very firm! I noticed no appreciable difference in spin or control when compared to an old Kennex Copper Ace I had laying around.

P.S. I've always wanted to take the Pro Kennex to a stringer during "specials week" and ask that it be strung with some really stiff poly string for the sale price. :twisted:

blipblop
03-26-2012, 01:56 PM
The natural racquet actually has that angle.

Its weird. When serving you have to aim for the fences. lol.

Oh yea you are right! But I'd totally cut off one of the handles.

VOLLEY KING
03-26-2012, 02:28 PM
Oh yea you are right! But I'd totally cut off one of the handles.

Wouldn't work . Its actually still at the same angle. Lol.

Here's a pic of my natural racquet.....I don't know if it shows but the racquet is at a huge angle like the spatula:

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4851/imagepvm.jpg

Autodidactic player
03-26-2012, 03:51 PM
... As you can see, the center two mains appear to go through one grommet-something only a stringer on drugs would do.

Actually this stringing technique was quite popular for years from the early part of the last century through the 1970's. Here is an example from Lacoste:

http://i40.tinypic.com/23tfbjd.jpg

VOLLEY KING
03-26-2012, 05:34 PM
Amazing .

It's almost like spaghetti stringing except the string are not bound together.

Would that be legal today?

Autodidactic player
03-27-2012, 02:41 AM
Amazing .

It's almost like spaghetti stringing except the string are not bound together.

Would that be legal today?

This stringing pattern is in no way like spaghetti stringing. The main feature of spaghetti stringing that makes it illegal is that the strings are not "alternately interlaced" which allows them to move (float) much more easily across the string surface. If your spaghetti racket was strung in the original method, you'll notice that two sets of main strings are used - one above and one below the crosses and that tubing is used where the strings cross with twine used to hold the strings together and limit movement. This quality makes it much easier to put tremendous (Nadal-like) spin on the ball. The point of the twine used to tie the strings together and the tubing used between the strings is to stop the strings from breaking every few shots as they saw back and forth across each other. Here is the modern rule governing stringing:

The hitting surface, defined as the main area of the stringing pattern bordered by the points of entry of the strings into the frame or points of contact of the strings with the frame, whichever is the smaller, shall be flat and consist of a pattern of crossed strings connected to a frame and alternately interlaced or bonded where they cross. The stringing pattern must be generally uniform and, in particular, not less dense in the center than in any other area. The racket shall be designed and strung such that the playing characteristics are identical on both faces. The racket shall be free of attached objects, protrusions and devices other than those utilized solely and specifically to limit or prevent wear and tear or vibration or, for the frame only, to distribute weight. These objects, protrusions and devices must be reasonable in size and placement for such purposes.

... and here is the original article from the "Stringers Assistant" notifying stringers that spaghetti stringing ("Double Stringing" in the official parlance of the day) was banned:

http://i40.tinypic.com/23usokj.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/in7b4w.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/j97ec8.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/23mmxz7.jpg

VOLLEY KING
03-27-2012, 02:58 AM
Auto,

Whoa!!!

Ok it's evident that I'm only an amateur and you are a pro. Collecting is not my day job....lol.

Wow !!! Do you have a website or something we can view ? Your collection is truly amazing and your knowledge immense.

Thank you for posting ....and I really love learning from you.

I thought that your Lacoste was similar to spaghetti stringing in that there are shared holes. Obviously it's not as effective at all; however can two strings come out of one hole?

Here's a pic of my spaghetti strung racquet. Of you enlarge it you will see the mains are actually two strings bound together.

By the way what do you think of my racquet ....is it a good item? I paid $300 for it and it was the only spaghetti string I could even get my hands on:


http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/3118/imagecah.jpg

Autodidactic player
03-27-2012, 03:43 AM
Auto,

Whoa!!!

Ok it's evident that I'm only an amateur and you are a pro. Collecting is not my day job....lol.

Wow !!! Do you have a website or something we can view ? Your collection is truly amazing and your knowledge immense.

Thank you for posting ....and I really love learning from you.

I thought that your Lacoste was similar to spaghetti stringing in that there are shared holes. Obviously it's not as effective at all; however can two strings come out of one hole?

Here's a pic of my spaghetti strung racquet. Of you enlarge it you will see the mains are actually two strings bound together.

By the way what do you think of my racquet ....is it a good item? I paid $300 for it and it was the only spaghetti string I could even get my hands on:

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/3118/imagecah.jpg

No website - I guess that should be on my to do list. I've always loved the old Adidas rackets and your spaghetti looks like it was well done. As for $300.00; I've always taken the approach that a product is worth whatever you are willing to pay for it- I guess I'm a capitalist at heart. Anyway, if you are happy with your purchase who am I to say whether you over or under payed!

I believe that the Lacoste type stringing technique is probably legal under the modern rules. The strings are alternately interlaced and not less dense in the center. The only problem I see is with the phrase "[t]he stringing pattern must be generally uniform" as the Lacoste is clearly more dense in the center; but since less density in the center is what the rule is really trying to prevent I think the Lacoste and similar rackets would pass the legality test under the modern rule.

VOLLEY KING
03-27-2012, 04:27 AM
Ok mr capitalist .......

Would you be willing to part with the snauwert ? :-).

Autodidactic player
03-27-2012, 03:41 PM
Ok mr capitalist .......

Would you be willing to part with the snauwert ? :-).

If you've got one of these (http://www.80s-tennis.com/pages/technort.html) we can definitely talk! :grin:

Autodidactic player
03-27-2012, 03:48 PM
More unusual long-string rackets. From left to right Sp.in Hipo, Bancroft Slingshot & Sp.in G-100.

http://i44.tinypic.com/21xvut.jpg

VOLLEY KING
03-27-2012, 03:50 PM
Sweeet.

Legal forever and then came along the head TIs7 and they declared it illegal.

Dumb rule .

Autodidactic player
03-27-2012, 03:56 PM
"Snow shoe" rackets:

http://i41.tinypic.com/24mb8e1.jpg

Autodidactic player
03-27-2012, 04:00 PM
Sweeet.

Legal forever and then came along the head TIs7 and they declared it illegal.

Dumb rule .

Long string rackets - rackets where the strings extend past the throat - are still legal as long as the longest string does not exceed 15 1/2 inches.

Autodidactic player
03-27-2012, 04:24 PM
One more then it's someone else's turn. The Geostar, MadRaq-like stringing years before Madeline patented hers!

http://i44.tinypic.com/157j6kp.jpg

akamc
03-27-2012, 09:59 PM
While you are searching, look for any of the Maynard Air rackets, they are loads of fun as well:

http://i44.tinypic.com/167l5yc.jpg

What a great collection of oddities, Autodidactic! What was the rationale behind the Maynard Air racquet, shock absorption? Have you hit with one? It's hard to imagine that it would withstand a big hit without the inner hoop popping out...

Autodidactic player
03-28-2012, 02:21 AM
... What was the rationale behind the Maynard Air racquet, shock absorption? Have you hit with one? It's hard to imagine that it would withstand a big hit without the inner hoop popping out...

Oddly enough, the Maynard is actually quite playable. The frame is standard '90's graphite so it's stiff enough and it's very well made so it feels solid. The down side is that, because of the air tube, it is quite head heavy; probably more head heavy that any racket I've used including the Wilson Hammers. Unless you have forearms like Popeye, forget about modern whipping strokes! On the other hand, if you learned to play in the early 70's, like me, with long, traditional, strokes you can certainly get some power on your rolling topspin forehands with all that head mass behind the ball. As for the stringset flying out, I never had that fear. Once the air tube is pumped up the stringset is solidly held in place, much like a bicycle tube holds the tire in place. The air tube does provide quite a bit of dampening, so I suppose the inventor had that benefit in mind, but it's hard for me to believe the inventor went so far over the top to achieve a modest benefit in dampening that couldn't easily be achieved by making the frame a little less stiff.

Other manufacturers have tried the replaceable string set as well with varying degrees of success. In this Tretorn racket, the stringset is held in place by simply wrapping the frame around it and tightening a turn buckle type screw in the throat. This one feels a lot more flimsy than the Maynard. You wouldn't want to play doubles with me using this racket - I'm always afraid that the stringset will go flying, like a frisbee, on my first hard stroke!

http://i42.tinypic.com/5bs0ly.jpg

Rock Strongo
03-28-2012, 03:00 AM
Oddly enough, the Maynard is actually quite playable. The frame is standard '90's graphite so it's stiff enough and it's very well made so it feels solid. The down side is that, because of the air tube, it is quite head heavy; probably more head heavy that any racket I've used including the Wilson Hammers. Unless you have forearms like Popeye, forget about modern whipping strokes! On the other hand, if you learned to play in the early 70's, like me, with long, traditional, strokes you can certainly get some power on your rolling topspin forehands with all that head mass behind the ball. As for the stringset flying out, I never had that fear. Once the air tube is pumped up the stringset is solidly held in place, much like a bicycle tube holds the tire in place. The air tube does provide quite a bit of dampening, so I suppose the inventor had that benefit in mind, but it's hard for me to believe the inventor went so far over the top to achieve a modest benefit in dampening that couldn't easily be achieved by making the frame a little less stiff.

Other manufacturers have tried the replaceable string set as well with varying degrees of success. In this Tretorn racket, the stringset is held in place by simply wrapping the frame around it and tightening a turn buckle type screw in the throat. This one feels a lot more flimsy than the Maynard. You wouldn't want to play doubles with me using this racket - I'm always afraid that the stringset will go flying, like a frisbee, on my first hard stroke!

http://i42.tinypic.com/5bs0ly.jpg

Have you tried the Tretorn? I tried one I haven't sold and long story short, it's terrible. I mean absolutely terrible. There is no worry that the strings will go flying as the screw is rather secure but it feels detached (obviously) and overly flexible...

Autodidactic player
03-28-2012, 04:32 AM
Have you tried the Tretorn? I tried one I haven't sold and long story short, it's terrible. I mean absolutely terrible. There is no worry that the strings will go flying as the screw is rather secure but it feels detached (obviously) and overly flexible...

Good morning, or in your case good afternoon, :)

I have played quite a bit with the Tretorn and my impression was different - and a bit better - than yours. I think that was because I started with lower expectations. I'll be kind to myself and say - reluctantly - that I am at least three times your age! The Tretorn would have been "cutting edge" when I was a junior and would have been competing with other metal rackets of the day like the Seamless, the Chemold or the Tensor. In comparison to those rackets the Tretorn is similarly flexible and plays just about as well; to be completely accurate I'd say a little bit worse. Back then, flex was an asset in a racket because the game demanded much more touch and feel than the modern big hitting game. The big downside of the Tretorn is that it feels flimsy, perhaps even cheap, because of the multi-part design and the fact that you can't really get the string set tight enough to feel secure. That is why the Maynard is different. The air tube really makes the headset feel secure in that racket. I was scared that if I tried to tighten the Tretorn turnbuckle to much it would break and - given how hard these rackets are to find in the US - I wasn't ready to take that chance. My Frisbee comment was only a bit of a joke. I was never confident that the string set would stay in place.

Hope all is well with you. If you uncover any more oddities please drop me a line. :)

tennismonkey
03-28-2012, 06:44 AM
autodidactic -- do you run a tennis museum or something? that has to be the most awesome (insane?) collection of vintage sticks i've seen. you could charge an entrance fee to your home.

VOLLEY KING
03-28-2012, 06:55 AM
One more then it's someone else's turn. The Geostar, MadRaq-like stringing years before Madeline patented hers!


Oh WOW!!! Just wow!!!!

I actually know Madeline. She lives near me.

Im going to point this out to her.

She claimed to have gotten the idea from a snow shoe ....hmmmm?

VOLLEY KING
03-28-2012, 07:04 AM
Ok auto....you said its some one else's turn.

You are a tough act to follow.

But I will try.

Below you will see the old snauwert ergonom....which you have . But what I don't think you have is the X-45!!

It's the modern version. Look at the throat and how it's been updated like moder racquets.

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/1618/imagetxp.jpg

Rock Strongo
03-28-2012, 09:56 AM
Good morning, or in your case good afternoon, :)

I have played quite a bit with the Tretorn and my impression was different - and a bit better - than yours. I think that was because I started with lower expectations. I'll be kind to myself and say - reluctantly - that I am at least three times your age! The Tretorn would have been "cutting edge" when I was a junior and would have been competing with other metal rackets of the day like the Seamless, the Chemold or the Tensor. In comparison to those rackets the Tretorn is similarly flexible and plays just about as well; to be completely accurate I'd say a little bit worse. Back then, flex was an asset in a racket because the game demanded much more touch and feel than the modern big hitting game. The big downside of the Tretorn is that it feels flimsy, perhaps even cheap, because of the multi-part design and the fact that you can't really get the string set tight enough to feel secure. That is why the Maynard is different. The air tube really makes the headset feel secure in that racket. I was scared that if I tried to tighten the Tretorn turnbuckle to much it would break and - given how hard these rackets are to find in the US - I wasn't ready to take that chance. My Frisbee comment was only a bit of a joke. I was never confident that the string set would stay in place.

Hope all is well with you. If you uncover any more oddities please drop me a line. :)

Well, unfortunately I thought the same with yours, that it was REALLY difficult to screw the headpiece in. It helps a bit if you slide off the handle first and then grip right under the screw. Coincidentally, the one I picked up later has no problems at all with this.

Flex is actually something I appreciate (playing a Max 200G at times and main stick has the mold of a Prestige but flex down at 50) but this just feels... weird! Could be down to the stringbed flexing weirdly before the actual frame does...

Also, oddities have been a rare sight here. Even woodies have been troublesome to find. Last 3-4 times I've been to the second hand stores I haven't found a single wooden racquet even which is troublesome because of a project me and my friend is going to try in the summer (and no, it doesn't mean breaking them all. Or at least not in my case!) All is well though, hope the same can be said with you!

And to contribute to this thread, I might as well show the only fun racquet I have left, which is exactly the same as above...

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q517/RamadhaniH/20120328_193234.jpg

VOLLEY KING
03-28-2012, 10:45 AM
That is sick!!

Have you ever hit with it versus a modern stick?

Rock Strongo
03-28-2012, 02:03 PM
That is sick!!

Have you ever hit with it versus a modern stick?

I'd never do that. Partly because I hate playing with it, and because it's a collector's piece and very rare.

Though it's cool, because although the concept is flawed it shows that some companies are bold and try new approaches to improve convenience.

Autodidactic player
03-28-2012, 02:37 PM
Ok auto....you said its some one else's turn.

You are a tough act to follow.

But I will try.

Below you will see the old snauwert ergonom....which you have . But what I don't think you have is the X-45!!

It's the modern version. Look at the throat and how it's been updated like moder racquets.

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/1618/imagetxp.jpg

O ye of little faith!

http://i43.tinypic.com/t05a1u.jpg

Autodidactic player
03-28-2012, 02:57 PM
OK, I'm going off in a different direction. Most enthusiasts have seen wood handled rackets with metal heads:

http://i42.tinypic.com/149p36g.jpg

but how many of you have seen a metal handled racket with a wood head?

http://i41.tinypic.com/20th06h.jpg

Rock Strongo
03-28-2012, 03:19 PM
Pictchez

One question, does the MacGregor can say "The greatest name in Golf"

I actually have a MacGregor golf bag, but enough about that!

Autodidactic player
03-28-2012, 03:28 PM
One question, does the MacGregor can say "The greatest name in Golf"

I actually have a MacGregor golf bag, but enough about that!

No, it says "the greatest name is sports" but MacGregor was much better known as a golf club manufacturer. In fact, from what I've read, the shafts on this racket are taken from one of their golf clubs. Similar to the Dunlop International which uses one golf club shaft.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ajn7r5.jpg

Rock Strongo
03-28-2012, 03:40 PM
No, it says "the greatest name is sports" but MacGregor was much better known as a golf club manufacturer. In fact, from what I've read, the shafts on this racket are taken from one of their golf clubs. Similar to the Dunlop International which uses one golf club shaft.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ajn7r5.jpg

Is that a graphite or steel shaft? Regular, x-tra stiff or even Ladies??:D:D

Autodidactic player
03-28-2012, 03:46 PM
Is that a graphite or steel shaft? Regular, x-tra stiff or even Ladies??:D:D

It's a good thing I am comfortable with my masculinity or I'd take great offense with you suggesting that I'd buy a ladies racket! :wink:

If you are really interested, it's "steel-tube chromium plated" according to Kuebler's book and made from 1972-1976.

Rock Strongo
03-28-2012, 04:07 PM
It's a good thing I am comfortable with my masculinity or I'd take great offense with you suggesting that I'd buy a ladies racket! :wink:

If you are really interested, it's "steel-tube chromium plated" according to Kuebler's book and made from 1972-1976.

Like the chrome plating would change its playability! That mono-shaft looks really thin though, not like the Superform or the various Prince frames that came out.

I referred to the fact that golf shafts come with different stiffness ratings, and yes, ladies do exist! it's actually the most flexible you can find after "senior" I think...:):)

Wish I had that many oddball frames...

VOLLEY KING
03-28-2012, 07:13 PM
It's a good thing I am comfortable with my masculinity or I'd take great offense with you suggesting that I'd buy a ladies racket! :wink:

If you are really interested, it's "steel-tube chromium plated" according to Kuebler's book and made from 1972-1976.

What a cool idea!!!!

I wonder what it would be like to play with a wood grip and the rest graphite???

That would be the ultimate in feel but the power of a modern racquet.....best of both world?

What do you think?

Autodidactic player
03-29-2012, 02:06 AM
What a cool idea!!!!

I wonder what it would be like to play with a wood grip and the rest graphite???

That would be the ultimate in feel but the power of a modern racquet.....best of both world?

What do you think?

One of the biggest issues manufacturers have when joining two dissimilar materials is weakness at the point where they join. Of course, this is a major problem with tennis rackets which take quite a lot of stress but still need to stay in one piece. I think the wood grip would eventually separate from the graphite head and you'd be left with two pieces of trash; or worse, a lawsuit if they separated at the wrong time! :cry:

VOLLEY KING
03-29-2012, 04:25 AM
One of the biggest issues manufacturers have when joining two dissimilar materials is weakness at the point where they join. Of course, this is a major problem with tennis rackets which take quite a lot of stress but still need to stay in one piece. I think the wood grip would eventually separate from the graphite head and you'd be left with two pieces of trash; or worse, a lawsuit if they separated at the wrong time! :cry:

Hmmmm? Good point ......

I wonder how Babolat does it? They stick that "cortex "
Thing in the middle of the racquet.

Not a tennis racquet but steering wheels in cars.....classy ones are wood partially for the look but also for the feel.

I think they could do it somehow .....I'm only talking about the handle of the racquet. They can maybe Bolt it in??

The Pro Kennex line actually had wood in the "core"......and of course as you know back in the day they had cimposture racquets.......

( by the way I have the Vilas but not "crazy" )......

Anyway I may be wrong about it but I think making a handle wood is a cool idea....must be a way.

skuludo
03-29-2012, 10:46 AM
I found the Dunlop polygon for sale in Japan. I think you can still buy it from the Rakuten site.

Autodidactic player
03-29-2012, 04:38 PM
Tonight's contribution, the Fischer Superform Tuning:

http://i41.tinypic.com/bdo500.jpg

Migelowsky
03-29-2012, 09:02 PM
Nice thread Autodidactic, do you have one of the early babolats? I remember in the 80´s, my friend´s dad had one. It was before the widebody revolution,
the thing I remember is that it was heavy, midsize and very expensive, $300 from about 1989 , and it had de VS logo.

VOLLEY KING
03-29-2012, 09:28 PM
Tonight's contribution, the Fischer Superform Tuning:

http://i41.tinypic.com/bdo500.jpg

Omg is that cool!! Please tell us about it. Can you change the tension yourself? Is that the idea?

Autodidactic player
03-30-2012, 01:51 AM
Omg is that cool!! Please tell us about it. Can you change the tension yourself? Is that the idea?

That's the plan but as with most of these rackets the idea is better than the execution. The key fits in the butt cap and you turn it to add or subtract tension from the six center main strings. Since most of the control, power and feel on shots comes from the main strings, as opposed to the crosses, the thought was that you could add a bit of tension to the center mains for added control if shots were flying on you or take away some tension for added power and depth if that's what you needed. In theory this makes some sense. In practice - not so much!

Like the MacGregor Bergelin LongString in post # 164, after a couple of adjustments, you tend to wind up with strings of varying, unpredictable, tension and a loss of both power and control. :(

Autodidactic player
03-30-2012, 01:59 AM
Nice thread Autodidactic, do you have one of the early babolats? I remember in the 80´s, my friend´s dad had one. It was before the widebody revolution,
the thing I remember is that it was heavy, midsize and very expensive, $300 from about 1989 , and it had de VS logo.

I don't have a single Babolat in my collection. Did they ever make any unusual rackets? I'm not aware of any - although I do remember being jealous of the rich kids who got their rackets strung with Babolat gut with the unusual name of "Africord" back in the day. Any of you old-timers remember Africord?

VOLLEY KING
03-30-2012, 04:14 AM
That's the plan but as with most of these rackets the idea is better than the execution. The key fits in the butt cap and you turn it to add or subtract tension from the six center main strings. Since most of the control, power and feel on shots comes from the main strings, as opposed to the crosses, the thought was that you could add a bit of tension to the center mains for added control if shots were flying on you or take away some tension for added power and depth if that's what you needed. In theory this makes some sense. In practice - not so much!

Like the MacGregor Bergelin LongString in post # 164, after a couple of adjustments, you tend to wind up with strings of varying, unpredictable, tension and a loss of both power and control. :(

That's my Mcgregor below . Sadly The tightening tool is missing and even more sad is that there's a broken string and no way to restring . :-(

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2474/imagekmv.jpg

gmatheis
03-30-2012, 04:50 AM
I don't have a single Babolat in my collection. Did they ever make any unusual rackets? I'm not aware of any - although I do remember being jealous of the rich kids who got their rackets strung with Babolat gut with the unusual name of "Africord" back in the day. Any of you old-timers remember Africord?

Autodidactic,

Do you have a little museum or anything or do you ever display your rackets at any events? I'm in SC and it may be worth a little road trip if you have them on display ever.

Autodidactic player
03-30-2012, 10:21 AM
That's my Mcgregor below . Sadly The tightening tool is missing and even more sad is that there's a broken string and no way to restring . :-(

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2474/imagekmv.jpg

The MacGregor was designed to be home strung without a stringing machine. If you are reasonably handy you can give it a try. You can tighten the strings with any 3/16 hex (Allen) wrench. Here are the stringing instructions from the 1989 Stringers Digest:

http://i43.tinypic.com/34h8fsx.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/30xa535.jpg

Autodidactic player
03-30-2012, 10:23 AM
Autodidactic,

Do you have a little museum or anything or do you ever display your rackets at any events? I'm in SC and it may be worth a little road trip if you have them on display ever.

Thanks for the complement. No museum, just a small den and a really understanding wife! :)

gmatheis
03-30-2012, 01:53 PM
Thanks for the complement. No museum, just a small den and a really understanding wife! :)

Isn't there an ATP event where you live now? I wonder if they would pay you to have them on display during the tournament or something.

That's a lot of great racket history you have there.

Autodidactic player
03-30-2012, 02:40 PM
... That's a lot of great racket history you have there.

Thanks again but my collection us rather small, less than 100 rackets, as I specialize exclusively in odd and unusual rackets. You really should see the collection of another member of this board who goes by the name "Hall of Fame Racquets." His collection is absolutely amazing! I hope he doesn't mind my pointing people to photos of his collection which he has online. Check it out at this link: Hall of Fame Racquets (http://s834.photobucket.com/albums/zz268/Alamocrest/Tennis%20Racquet%20Hall%20of%20Fame/Tennis%20Racquet%20Hall%20of%20Fame%202/)

VOLLEY KING
03-30-2012, 02:44 PM
The MacGregor was designed to be home strung without a stringing machine. If you are reasonably handy you can give it a try. You can tighten the strings with any 3/16 hex (Allen) wrench. Here are the stringing instructions from the 1989 Stringers Digest:

http://i43.tinypic.com/34h8fsx.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/30xa535.jpg

But I would have to restring the whole thing ....right?

Autodidactic player
03-30-2012, 03:03 PM
But I would have to restring the whole thing ....right?

Yup, cut yourself two 27 foot strings and follow the directions! Back in the old wood racket days we would regularly replace a single broken string - we called it a "patch." At my club playing with a patched racket was a badge of honor, a sign that you were a serious junior. This is very rarely done nowadays.

Autodidactic player
03-30-2012, 04:04 PM
Tonight's contribution is the Jenro Twin Racket. It's a modern composite racket designed to be taken apart for easier storage during travel. The grip section screws on to the head via a slot in the butt cap that is tightened with a special key. The connection point, which is clearly the weak point, is much more solid than I would have thought. Even so, it does creak and flex a bit and - other than the cool factor of putting your racket together before a match - doesn't offer any real advantage over a traditional racket.

http://i43.tinypic.com/xekjv5.jpg

Rock Strongo
03-31-2012, 03:37 AM
Picture showing a green double-handled racquet

1: Is the head off-center?

2: I looked up the guy behind that company, and he's part golf club inventor, part the most ridiculous infomercial sales guy ever. It's all to the extreme. Do a Youtube search for Jack Hamm and you'll see for yourself.

VOLLEY KING
03-31-2012, 09:36 AM
Tonight's contribution is the Jenro Twin Racket. It's a modern composite racket designed to be taken apart for easier storage during travel. The grip section screws on to the head via a slot in the butt cap that is tightened with a special key. The connection point, which is clearly the weak point, is much more solid than I would have thought. Even so, it does creak and flex a bit and - other than the cool factor of putting your racket together before a match - doesn't offer any real advantage over a traditional racket.

http://i43.tinypic.com/xekjv5.jpg

I've seen that before .....but I never really understood why??

Why would you need to do that? I guess good for traveling ? But tennis racquets are not all that hard to bring with you.

Autodidactic player
03-31-2012, 04:05 PM
I've seen that before .....

This one, the Rival AU 700 Ceramic, is a bit rarer. Have you seen one of these before?

http://i41.tinypic.com/3469tzr.jpg

VOLLEY KING
03-31-2012, 10:44 PM
LOL...no...that is FUGLY!

But why did the jenpro make the racquet head interchangeable?

What was the purpose?

Autodidactic player
04-01-2012, 02:25 AM
LOL...no...that is FUGLY!

But why did the jenpro make the racquet head interchangeable?

What was the purpose?

I think the point was simply convenience. A business person could put the racket in their briefcase, travelers could easily fit it in their carry-on, etc. I agree it's not an big selling point but at least someone is thinking outside the box! Check out the carry case/bag they came with:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2hz3ltw.jpg

Autodidactic player
04-01-2012, 02:30 AM
LOL...no...that is FUGLY!
...

Speaking of FUGLY:lol:

http://i43.tinypic.com/wmcfnm.jpg

Hannah19
11-07-2012, 01:41 PM
Just found this thread when I googled "Ergonom 2".
Why is'nt it in the "classic racquet" section.
This is a great thread but in the wrong section.....:)

Captain Haddock
11-07-2012, 03:13 PM
This one, the Rival AU 700 Ceramic, is a bit rarer. Have you seen one of these before?

http://i41.tinypic.com/3469tzr.jpg

Rival made a few models like these. They were reviewed in the 1989 World Tennis racquet issue, with excellent scores. I've always wanted one.

Autodidactic player
11-07-2012, 03:35 PM
Just found this thread when I googled "Ergonom 2".
...

Here is a not-so-great picture of my Ergonom 2.

http://i49.tinypic.com/r8igih.jpg

rodracquet
04-05-2013, 02:57 AM
Previous posts show the modern JENRO. Here is the mid 80's version with a foldable handle called back then JEANROT http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151502484078534&set=a.10151502483748534.1073741826.195175473533&type=1&theater

Autodidactic player
04-05-2013, 03:33 AM
Previous posts show the modern JENRO. Here is the mid 80's version with a foldable handle called back then JEANROT http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151502484078534&set=a.10151502483748534.1073741826.195175473533&type=1&theater

Have you confirmed that the Jenro and the Jeanrot were produced by the same company? Although they look quite similar, and have remarkably similar names, I've never seen any proof that the Jenrot is an earlier version of the Jeanro.