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timnz
03-04-2012, 01:42 PM
A year ago I would have rated the US Open as faster than Wimbledon but they have slowed down the US Open now. So it now seems:

Australian Open - Slow Hard Court
French Open - Clay court (by definition slow)
Wimbledon - Slow Grass Court
US Open - Medium Paced (used to be fast but now slower) Hard Court

So in order of slowness

Slow - French Open
Slow - Australian Open
Medium/Slow - Wimbledon/US Open about the same

Interesting question is the Australian Open now slower than the French Open? (Martina N. said it was as slow and the percentage on return of service is slightly worse than the French Open) I'd say not yet - but are the Australian Open committee trying to get it that slow? I wonder what their strategy is there.

So is the French Open no longer the slowest Grand Slam?

MichaelNadal
03-04-2012, 04:48 PM
^^Wimbledon is not a "slow grass court" it's a higher bouncing grass court than it used to be, and bc of the switch of the grass is much slower in week two than it used to be. But it's still a fast court. (but not fast in comparison to unchanged grass courts)

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-04-2012, 06:25 PM
^^Wimbledon is not a "slow grass court" it's a higher bouncing grass court than it used to be, and bc of the switch of the grass is much slower in week two than it used to be. But it's still a fast court. (but not fast in comparison to unchanged grass courts)

So you're saying it's a fast court in comparison to todays court and not in comparison to historical fast court like the 1990s USO courts?

Ray Mercer
03-04-2012, 06:27 PM
I don't know but the ground stroke speed at Wimbledon has looked slow for along time. Federer can rip forehand winners a lot easier on surfaces like Dubai than Wimbledon. Maybe it's due to the weight of the Wimbledon ball.

tenniselbow1
03-04-2012, 06:57 PM
http://www.fawcette.net/2012/02/hard-courts-fast-clay-slow-not-so-much-.html

MichaelNadal
03-04-2012, 06:58 PM
So you're saying it's a fast court in comparison to todays court and not in comparison to historical fast court like the 1990s USO courts?

Right, slower than 90's courts obviously, but still one of the fastest of today's courts, just higher bouncing than it used to be as well.

tenniselbow1
03-04-2012, 07:13 PM
Right, slower than 90's courts obviously, but still one of the fastest of today's courts, just higher bouncing than it used to be as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Gjxf8RjhKXI

kimbahpnam
03-04-2012, 07:17 PM
i agree it's a slow grass court.

tenniselbow1
03-04-2012, 07:28 PM
i agree it's a slow grass court.

No brainer...

VOLLEY KING
03-04-2012, 07:32 PM
Tennis has never been this exciting .

This is the new golden age of tennis.

We had Borg Connors McEnroe

And now we have Fed, Nadal, Joker

BULLZ1LLA2.0
03-04-2012, 07:42 PM
Tennis has never been this exciting .

This is the new golden age of tennis.

We had Borg Connors McEnroe

And now we have Fed, Nadal, Joker

What is your point? Only McEnroe lived at the net.

MichaelNadal
03-04-2012, 08:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Gjxf8RjhKXI

Ok, as they said the speed of the ball is affected by today's higher bounce after the ball strikes the court. It's still fast, just not as fast as it USED to be.

piece
03-04-2012, 08:24 PM
I don't know but the ground stroke speed at Wimbledon has looked slow for along time. Federer can rip forehand winners a lot easier on surfaces like Dubai than Wimbledon. Maybe it's due to the weight of the Wimbledon ball.

I've noticed this too. Strange...

VOLLEY KING
03-04-2012, 08:28 PM
What is your point? Only McEnroe lived at the net.

That tennis today is really exciting . I'm glad they changed the court speed.

merlinpinpin
03-04-2012, 10:22 PM
Ok, as they said the speed of the ball is affected by today's higher bounce after the ball strikes the court. It's still fast, just not as fast as it USED to be.

The first link posted by tenniselbow1 is very interesting. It shows, for example, that there are now many more winners at RG than at Wimbledon. So I guess the "speed" of Wimbledon's grass has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

Oh, and it's bound to be even worse this year with the olympics and the need to play two tournaments in as many months.

phnx90
03-05-2012, 01:39 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=j070zjfq0Uc#t=383s

Granted this is an old interview, but looks like grass is still faster than other surfaces enough to mention.

BULLZ1LLA2.0
03-05-2012, 02:45 AM
That tennis today is really exciting . I'm glad they changed the court speed.

Oh, I get you know. Yeah, true that, today is a golden era. I have no complaints.

Plus I think Roland Garros today is more beneficial for a serve-volleyer than it ever has been before.

DjokovicForTheWin
03-05-2012, 04:54 AM
Ok, as they said the speed of the ball is affected by today's higher bounce after the ball strikes the court. It's still fast, just not as fast as it USED to be.

i.e. slower .. :)

SLD76
03-05-2012, 05:25 AM
i.e. slower .. :)

my thought exactly, lol.

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-05-2012, 06:55 AM
Right, slower than 90's courts obviously, but still one of the fastest of today's courts, just higher bouncing than it used to be as well.

To me that is a problem. You're saying it's fast out of a bunch of slow courts. IF everyone were suddenly driving 35 MPH on the freeway and I was going 65, I'd be fast, but only fast when compared to those slow slow slow drivers on the freeway with me.

tennis_pro
03-05-2012, 07:05 AM
To me that is a problem. You're saying it's fast out of a bunch of slow courts. IF everyone were suddenly driving 35 MPH on the freeway and I was going 65, I'd be fast, but only fast when compared to those slow slow slow drivers on the freeway with me.

x2. The problem is not the grass of Wimbledon itself. It's the fact that the majority of surfaces have been slowed down so much these days it's beyond the joke.

stringertom
03-05-2012, 07:08 AM
Choice and handling of balls plus weather conditions and time of day all factor into the speed.

Wimby first started slowing conditions down by opening balls hours before matches. Are they still doing that? Maybe Woodrow knows.

The Babolat ball sped up the FO last year. Will it be the same in '12? That, plus dry, warm weather make for more aggressive tactics.

AO day matches outdoors are faster conditions than night or with the roof closed.

We all hope for better weather at the USO. If it's summer-like all the way through the two weeks, conditions will be fast enough to reward all-courters.

Romismak
03-05-2012, 07:26 AM
Last year all slams played pretty similar- it was definitely most similar slam speed year ever.

AO- i think is now slowest slam, but depends if you play during day or night session match, clearly night matches are super slow, while during day-if is very warm weather courts play quicker

RG-with new quicker balls, serves and big groundstrokes are in advantage here, if is hot weather clay is dry and it plays quicker, definitely RG is one of fastest clay events nowadays and fast clay events nowadays are i think similar to slowest HC tournaments like AO, IW, Miami

Wimbledon- heavy balls-which make game slower than it should be with lighter balls, still Wimbledon first days is pretty quick fort today´s condtions, but center court during F match is so destroyed and slow it is really maybe as slow as medium HC events-but still Wimbledon was fastest slam last year

USO- was slower than usual, because of weather before and they said they painted it wrong, so HC was not like previous years too. USO was slowest ever but this year it should be faster- both Decoturf should be faster and if will be normal summer hot weather, courts should play as fast outdoor HC.

tenniselbow1
03-05-2012, 07:54 AM
Last year all slams played pretty similar- it was definitely most similar slam speed year ever.

AO- i think is now slowest slam, but depends if you play during day or night session match, clearly night matches are super slow, while during day-if is very warm weather courts play quicker

RG-with new quicker balls, serves and big groundstrokes are in advantage here, if is hot weather clay is dry and it plays quicker, definitely RG is one of fastest clay events nowadays and fast clay events nowadays are i think similar to slowest HC tournaments like AO, IW, Miami

Wimbledon- heavy balls-which make game slower than it should be with lighter balls, still Wimbledon first days is pretty quick fort today´s condtions, but center court during F match is so destroyed and slow it is really maybe as slow as medium HC events-but still Wimbledon was fastest slam last year

USO- was slower than usual, because of weather before and they said they painted it wrong, so HC was not like previous years too. USO was slowest ever but this year it should be faster- both Decoturf should be faster and if will be normal summer hot weather, courts should play as fast outdoor HC.


Well said.

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-05-2012, 08:08 AM
Choice and handling of balls plus weather conditions and time of day all factor into the speed.

Wimby first started slowing conditions down by opening balls hours before matches. Are they still doing that? Maybe Woodrow knows.

The Babolat ball sped up the FO last year. Will it be the same in '12? That, plus dry, warm weather make for more aggressive tactics.

AO day matches outdoors are faster conditions than night or with the roof closed.

We all hope for better weather at the USO. If it's summer-like all the way through the two weeks, conditions will be fast enough to reward all-courters.

The players are so vocal about the length of the season I'd think they'd be more vocal about the heavier balls. I normally just play with the standard pack of Penn balls I get at costco but from time to time I do try the USO and AO balls. They both seem to be much heavier and always seem to feel more vibration and soreness in my arm after. I'd think that opposed to shortening the season they'd advocate lighter balls and faster surfaces, something much more likely than the shortening of the season.

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-05-2012, 08:12 AM
Last year all slams played pretty similar- it was definitely most similar slam speed year ever.

AO- i think is now slowest slam, but depends if you play during day or night session match, clearly night matches are super slow, while during day-if is very warm weather courts play quicker

RG-with new quicker balls, serves and big groundstrokes are in advantage here, if is hot weather clay is dry and it plays quicker, definitely RG is one of fastest clay events nowadays and fast clay events nowadays are i think similar to slowest HC tournaments like AO, IW, Miami

Wimbledon- heavy balls-which make game slower than it should be with lighter balls, still Wimbledon first days is pretty quick fort today´s condtions, but center court during F match is so destroyed and slow it is really maybe as slow as medium HC events-but still Wimbledon was fastest slam last year

USO- was slower than usual, because of weather before and they said they painted it wrong, so HC was not like previous years too. USO was slowest ever but this year it should be faster- both Decoturf should be faster and if will be normal summer hot weather, courts should play as fast outdoor HC.

+1. I really feel that heavier balls combined with surfaces that have increased friction really has made it nearly impossible to hit through the courts. I still find it funny that Soderling has had his best success at the FO because it gives him the time to wind up and crank the ball through the court.

NamRanger
03-05-2012, 08:52 AM
^^Wimbledon is not a "slow grass court" it's a higher bouncing grass court than it used to be, and bc of the switch of the grass is much slower in week two than it used to be. But it's still a fast court. (but not fast in comparison to unchanged grass courts)



Wimbledon is the slowest grasscourt by far. Newport and Queens are way, way, way faster. Halle maybe slightly faster/same speed, but that's about it.

woodrow1029
03-05-2012, 09:45 AM
Choice and handling of balls plus weather conditions and time of day all factor into the speed.

Wimby first started slowing conditions down by opening balls hours before matches. Are they still doing that? Maybe Woodrow knows.

The Babolat ball sped up the FO last year. Will it be the same in '12? That, plus dry, warm weather make for more aggressive tactics.

AO day matches outdoors are faster conditions than night or with the roof closed.

We all hope for better weather at the USO. If it's summer-like all the way through the two weeks, conditions will be fast enough to reward all-courters.

I haven't worked Wimbledon since 2003, but back then (and I'm pretty sure that even now) the ballkids open the balls 2 games before the ball change is set to occur. Not 100% sure though.

Australian Open opens the ball cans earliest out of the slams (I'm assuming this hasn't changed either). Umpire opens up (for a 5 set match) 20 cans of balls before going on court.

Bobby Jr
03-05-2012, 01:45 PM
The Babolat ball sped up the FO last year. Will it be the same in '12? That, plus dry, warm weather make for more aggressive tactics..
This ^. People assume that last year's FO ball satisfied the powers that be because the FO was so good last year. I do recall plenty of players having issues with the FO not having the same ball as the lead-up tournaments as has been tacitly agreed upon in the past.

I don't have a whole lot of faith that they will see the success and entertainment of the FO in the same way most others did so wont be at all surprised to see the FO this year return to a slower ball.

We'll know pretty soon though anyway wont we? If the FO is sticking with that Babloat then some lead up tournaments will surely follow suit?

timnz
03-05-2012, 01:54 PM
The Australian Open organizers should be embarrassed that there is even a discussion happening on whether their tournament is slower than Roland Garros.

timnz
03-05-2012, 01:59 PM
On the ATP website there are ratings on Surface speeds and the Australian Open rates - Medium to Medium fast. That is so not true!

What I think is going on is that 15 years ago - by analogy people were driving between 50 and 80 miles an hour. Now the range of people driving is between 25 and 50. 50 miles an hour 15 years ago was slow but now its regarded as fast. The measuring scale has changed because everything has moved to the left radically.

MichaelNadal
03-05-2012, 04:56 PM
Wimbledon is the slowest grasscourt by far. Newport and Queens are way, way, way faster. Halle maybe slightly faster/same speed, but that's about it.

I agree with this. Im just saying it's still not a slow surface.

Nathaniel_Near
03-05-2012, 04:59 PM
It isn't slow but doesn't seem to be quick either. The Major events speed are skewed overall much in favour of the slow side (AKA the darkside).

MichaelNadal
03-05-2012, 05:02 PM
It isn't slow but doesn't seem to be quick either. The Major events speed are skewed overall much in favour of the slow side (AKA the darkside).

Yeah it's sort of in-between, they should really switch back to the old grass, especially after so many players want it. They should boycott Wimby till they speed it back up :)

1970CRBase
03-05-2012, 05:02 PM
The courts will be sped up when the TV networks decide a four hour match better suit their scheduling than a six hour one.

tlm
03-05-2012, 05:04 PM
How many of these crying about the court speed threads are there going to be? This has been discussed to death here and no matter how much whining you fast court fans keep beating this subject to death they are not going to speed the courts up.

So go back and watch your fast court 90's serving contests and quit crying about todays game and speed of courts.

MichaelNadal
03-05-2012, 05:06 PM
How many of these crying about the court speed threads are there going to be? This has been discussed to death here and no matter how much whining you fast court fans keep beating this subject to death they are not going to speed the courts up.

So go back and watch your fast court 90's serving contests and quit crying about todays game and speed of courts.

It's not just that though, at least for me. I love today's long grinding tennis, and thought for instance the AO final was great. People are complaining bc there's no variety anymore. There should at least be one really fast slam, and it should be Wimbledon, right after the contrast of the FO like it used to be.

tlm
03-05-2012, 05:26 PM
It's not just that though, at least for me. I love today's long grinding tennis, and thought for instance the AO final was great. People are complaining bc there's no variety anymore. There should at least be one really fast slam, and it should be Wimbledon, right after the contrast of the FO like it used to be.


Well if that is all that is wanted then i could agree with that, but most people complain that all the surfaces but clay should be faster. Plus it sure appears that Wimbledon is much quicker than the other surfaces.

JimF
03-05-2012, 06:13 PM
This ^. People assume that last year's FO ball satisfied the powers that be because the FO was so good last year. I do recall plenty of players having issues with the FO not having the same ball as the lead-up tournaments as has been tacitly agreed upon in the past.

I don't have a whole lot of faith that they will see the success and entertainment of the FO in the same way most others did so wont be at all surprised to see the FO this year return to a slower ball.

We'll know pretty soon though anyway wont we? If the FO is sticking with that Babloat then some lead up tournaments will surely follow suit?

The Babolat balls are part of a major , five year sponsorship.

That doesn't mean that Babolat can't agree to change the balls. Example: Yonix supplied sponsor balls for the SAP Open but you can't buy them, they made them to the Penn specs or the ATP tournament. Nothing like their normal balls.