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View Full Version : Nadal the Best Volleyer in the Top 4?


GasquetGOAT
03-06-2012, 08:11 AM
IIRC, McEnroe has said again during the Aus Open that Nadal is the best volleyer among the top 4. Searching through some of the old threads, McEnroe has made this claim quite a few times since 2010. I, for one, find this claim absolutely amusing when you can often count the number of times Nadal came to the net, on one hand. He may have a high winning percentage at the net but does that make him a better volleyer than Murray, Djokovic and Federer?




:neutral::-|:-?

SLD76
03-06-2012, 08:14 AM
IIRC, McEnroe has said again during the Aus Open that Nadal is the best volleyer among the top 4. Searching through some of the old threads, McEnroe has made this claim quite a few times since 2010. I, for one, find this claim absolutely amusing when you can often count the number of times Nadal came to the net, on one hand. He may have a high winning percentage at the net but does that make him a better volleyer than Murray, Djokovic and Federer?




:neutral::-|:-?


Nadal looks like a better volleyer because usually when he is at net, he is in a winning position(i.e. pouncing on an easy put away, being drawn in , hitting a good approach and then pouncing on an easy put away).

If we want to judge his net play, lets see what he does on a faster court when he comes in of his own volition.

Clarky21
03-06-2012, 08:17 AM
Not even close. :lol:

Rozroz
03-06-2012, 08:17 AM
aaaa.... no.

Lsmkenpo
03-06-2012, 08:23 AM
McEnroe also claims the only player he has seen with hands as good as his own is Donald Young. :confused:

SLD76
03-06-2012, 08:25 AM
McEnroe also claims the only player he has seen with hands as good as his own is Donald Young. :confused:

He said that?

How is he still allowed to commentate?

GasquetGOAT
03-06-2012, 08:25 AM
Nadal looks like a better volleyer because usually when he is at net, he is in a winning position(i.e. pouncing on an easy put away, being drawn in , hitting a good approach and then pouncing on an easy put away).

If we want to judge his net play, lets see what he does on a faster court when he comes in of his own volition.

Instead of categorizing them as volleys, should they be called "put aways". Maybe he IS the best at easy Put-aways, not volleys?

SLD76
03-06-2012, 08:28 AM
Instead of categorizing them as volleys, should they be called "put aways". Maybe he IS the best at easy Put-aways, not volleys?

Id buy that for a dollar.

Unfortunately, thats not how its done officially.

Lsmkenpo
03-06-2012, 08:32 AM
Marc Lopez has better volleys than Nadal.

brettsticker86
03-06-2012, 08:36 AM
bullocks. nadal is probably the worst, as far as technique goes. he has great hands but poor volleying technique. kind of chops at the ball on the backhand side. federer and murray have perfect technique, djokovic isn't far behind. Nadal = great hands, poor volley technique.

mtr1
03-06-2012, 08:38 AM
He doesn't even have the best volleys out of the top 4 in Spain.

norbac
03-06-2012, 08:41 AM
Not the best, but probably the smartest.

monfed
03-06-2012, 08:42 AM
Not the best, but probably the smartest.

What does that even mean? :-?

SLD76
03-06-2012, 08:47 AM
What does that even mean? :-?

meaning that he wisely deposits the easy put away into the open court.

GasquetGOAT
03-06-2012, 08:47 AM
What does that even mean? :-?

Meaning knowing one's own shortcomings? If I suck at doing something then don't do it too often, no? Nadal is smart!

Sartorius
03-06-2012, 08:49 AM
He's the best putawayer.

monfed
03-06-2012, 08:50 AM
Meaning knowing one's own shortcomings? If I suck at doing something then don't do it too often, no? Nadal is smart!

:twisted:

10failedvolleys

purge
03-06-2012, 08:52 AM
mac says alot when the day is long.

nadal does actually have a pretty good technique on the volley imo. but hes not a natural volleyer at all. hes not at home at the net and he never will be.

his % won at the net is good because he only shows up there when hes already won the point. he only approaches the net after hes pummeled his opponent way out of the court from the baseline and he either gets an easy put away or the ball doesnt come back anyway. like most players of this era you dont see him just surprisingly sneak in to the net to try and win the point there.

Jack Romeo
03-06-2012, 08:54 AM
all four of them are baseliners but federer has the best technique and is the most instinctively aggressive in terms of moving forward among the top four, more so since paul annacone started working with him. maybe the reason why he has loses more points up at net is because he comes in more often. he'll take more risks going forward. it pays off on fast courts as his recent results have shown.

i think murray has about the same prowess up at net as nadal but suffers from more mental lapses and bad judgment compared to the other four. this is not just with regards to coming to the net but in all aspects of the game. why else would he be slamless while all the others have multiple slams in their resumes?

the reason why nadal is the most effective or has the highest winning percentage when up at net is because he is the most judicious of them all when it comes to moving forward. in a way, this is a bit impressive since his natural instincts are just to stay back and grind it out. for him to recognize correctly in a high percentage of situations when to come in for an easy put away speaks of his methodical nature.

with regards to djokovic, he is the one who has the least need to come in to the net because of his immense strength from the back off both sides. in a way, he really doesn't need to learn volleying and it has shown a bit. but i think he has good hands and quick reactions so he doesn't look half bad up at net. but since it is not a part of his game that gets practiced a lot during match situations, it's nothing special either.

SLD76
03-06-2012, 08:59 AM
all four of them are baseliners but federer has the best technique and is the most instinctively aggressive in terms of moving forward among the top four, more so since paul annacone started working with him. maybe the reason why he has loses more points up at net is because he comes in more often. he'll take more risks going forward. it pays off on fast courts as his recent results have shown.

i think murray has about the same prowess up at net as nadal but suffers from more mental lapses and bad judgment compared to the other four. this is not just with regards to coming to the net but in all aspects of the game. why else would he be slamless while all the others have multiple slams in their resumes?

the reason why nadal is the most effective or has the highest winning percentage when up at net is because he is the most judicious of them all when it comes to moving forward. in a way, this is a bit impressive since his natural instincts are just to stay back and grind it out. for him to recognize correctly in a high percentage of situations when to come in for an easy put away speaks of his methodical nature.

with regards to djokovic, he is the one who has the least need to come in to the net because of his immense strength from the back off both sides. in a way, he really doesn't need to learn volleying and it has shown a bit. but i think he has good hands and quick reactions so he doesn't look half bad up at net. but since it is not a part of his game that gets practiced a lot during match situations, it's nothing special either.

I disagree. He could save some wear and tear on his legs and lengthen his career if he would step in when there is the opportunity.

Seen too many points where the opponent is way off the court and throws up a hail mary get me over moonball to restart the point. If djokjer comes to net there he will most likely get a wild passing shot that will go out of bounds or an easy put away.

Djoker matches could be alot shorter agaisnt the top players if he were willing to come in when he should.

Nathaniel_Near
03-06-2012, 09:00 AM
Nope.

five

GasquetGOAT
03-06-2012, 09:02 AM
with regards to djokovic, he is the one who has the least need to come in to the net because of his immense strength from the back off both sides. in a way, he really doesn't need to learn volleying and it has shown a bit. but i think he has good hands and quick reactions so he doesn't look half bad up at net. but since it is not a part of his game that gets practiced a lot during match situations, it's nothing special either.

Very true, some of the more crucial points during both the US and Aus Open finals were won at the net by Djokovic. His ability to finish the point at the net was quite crucial in beating Nadal, more than many realise.

citybert
03-06-2012, 09:07 AM
Didn't nadal win Doubles at IW last year or the year before? that should count for something towards his net game. I know the other 3 don't play as much doubles so it may not be a fair comparison(except for murray)

BULLZ1LLA2.0
03-06-2012, 09:28 AM
Who leads the ATP in successful volley%?

GasquetGOAT
03-06-2012, 09:31 AM
Didn't nadal win Doubles at IW last year or the year before? that should count for something towards his net game. I know the other 3 don't play as much doubles so it may not be a fair comparison(except for murray)

Net game in doubles is a bit different to singles.

Magnetite
03-06-2012, 09:33 AM
Nadal has a better volley than Novak and Murray. It's pretty close between him and Federer to be honest. Fed seems to miss more, but he also comes to the net more. Fed was also successful at the serve and volley game, which is why I give him the edge.

laughingbuddha
03-06-2012, 09:35 AM
The fellow rarely volleys, and does only when he is certain of winning the point with a volley.

FlashFlare11
03-06-2012, 09:36 AM
The difference between Nadal and more aggressive players like Federer is that the latter will come in looking to hit maybe two or three volleys in order to get the job done. They realize that in order to win the point, they have to take the initiative and place the opponent in a disadvantageous situation at the net.

Nadal, on the other hand, will only come to the net when he is almost absolutely sure he can end the point on the next shot. Usually, the next shot is a drop volley or a sitter for an easy put away. He's good at hitting to the open court, but I don't consider that aggressive volleying. I don't think he's as good as Federer, Murray, or even Tsonga and Fish at aggressive volleying.

SLD76
03-06-2012, 09:37 AM
The difference between Nadal and more aggressive players like Federer is that the latter will come in looking to hit maybe two or three volleys in order to get the job done. They realize that in order to win the point, they have to take the initiative and place the opponent in a disadvantageous situation at the net.

Nadal, on the other hand, will only come to the net when he is almost absolutely sure he can end the point on the next shot. Usually, the next shot is a drop volley or a sitter for an easy put away. He's good at hitting to the open court, but I don't consider that aggressive volleying. I don't think he's as good as Federer, Murray, or even Tsonga and Fish at aggressive volleying.


tsonga is leagues above nadal. Hell, florian mayer beat nadal with a volleying clinic last year in shanghai.

Breaker
03-06-2012, 10:34 AM
He can pull off some great drop volleys when under pressure but doesn't punch his volleys well which gets him into trouble.

elpolaco84
03-06-2012, 10:48 AM
He's doesn't even have the best volleys out of the top 4 in Spain.
Feliciano lopez kicks in

tennis_pro
03-06-2012, 10:55 AM
hahahahahahaha

no. AND IT AIN'T EVEN CLOSE.

Have you ever seen Nadal hit a stab volley or anything but a drop volley / putaway into the open court? There's your answer.

MixieP
03-06-2012, 11:04 AM
I think it's true. Seriously, Rafa should start coming in more. He really is very good at volleying.

Benhur
03-06-2012, 11:05 AM
Nadal probably has the best drop volley among the top 4, and decent improvisation. The Edbergian crisp deep volley is best emulated by Federer, with the obvious large difference. In general, the volleying skills of the current top 4 are quite embarrassing compared with people like Edberg and McEnroe.

But of course, it's also true that the ground game skills of Edberg and McEnroe are equally embarrassing compared with the current top 4.

tennis_pro
03-06-2012, 11:06 AM
Nadal probably has the best drop volley among the top 4, and decent improvisation. The Edbergian crisp deep volley is best emulated by Federer, with the obvious large difference. In general, the volleying skills of the current top 4 are quite embarrassing compared with people like Edberg and McEnroe.

That's true. But you can't compare such different eras, the big 3 would eat prime Edberg/McEnroe alive from the baseline.

Jack Romeo
03-06-2012, 11:37 AM
I disagree. He could save some wear and tear on his legs and lengthen his career if he would step in when there is the opportunity.

Seen too many points where the opponent is way off the court and throws up a hail mary get me over moonball to restart the point. If djokjer comes to net there he will most likely get a wild passing shot that will go out of bounds or an easy put away.

Djoker matches could be alot shorter agaisnt the top players if he were willing to come in when he should.

what i mean is that since what he has is working so well, he doesn't need to come in. yes, he could be even more dangerous and spend less effort. but he must see the need to do it first. right now, with him being so dominant, he's just focusing on what is working and sticking to it.

MichaelNadal
03-06-2012, 07:44 PM
Nadal has a better volley than Novak and Murray. It's pretty close between him and Federer to be honest. Fed seems to miss more, but he also comes to the net more. Fed was also successful at the serve and volley game, which is why I give him the edge.

Totally agree with this. Some of the haters on here are ridiculous. Nadal has hit some sublime volleys under pressure.

ledwix
03-06-2012, 07:52 PM
That claim makes no sense. If Nadal were such a great volleyer, why doesn't he come in more than 15 times in a 6 hour match?

MichaelNadal
03-06-2012, 08:08 PM
That claim makes no sense. If Nadal were such a great volleyer, why doesn't he come in more than 15 times in a 6 hour match?

It has nothing to do with how often you do it. How often does Federer come in for a volley? Oh ok then. Not that much more than Rafa.

OddJack
03-06-2012, 08:09 PM
Nadal looks like a better volleyer because usually when he is at net, he is in a winning position(i.e. pouncing on an easy put away, being drawn in , hitting a good approach and then pouncing on an easy put away).

If we want to judge his net play, lets see what he does on a faster court when he comes in of his own volition.

Yes,

Nadal never goes for tough volleys as Federer would go for.

How often does the guy approach the net in the first place??

McEnroe stupidly translate higher % won on volleys as better vollier. So if Nadal apporaches and wins 5 out of 5 he is a better vollier than Federer if he does 16 out of 20. How stupid.

He is not even better than Tsonga, let alone Federer.

VOLLEY KING
03-06-2012, 08:19 PM
Watch and learn:


Thanks.

He is a good serve and volleyer he is just a far better baseliner. Baseline is his bread and butter and that's why he is classified everywhere as a baseliner.

But what often goes ignored is that Rafa is a master of the "sneak volley" . All serve and Volleyers use this tactic.....but Rafa is really good at it because he pins his opponents far back at the baseline and sneaks in for a volley. He has amazing hands at the net. He really uses this tactic regularly :

the sneak volley....most ignored tactic in tennis :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71b3IPgKy6o&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8iI7FmTL6Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtGHd7Ga3hw&feature=youtube_gdata_player


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9a-6aoRC24&feature=youtube_gdata_player

what's interesting in the next video is look at the stats....at this point in the match Nadal is
12 for 13 on his net points. Murray 13 for 19. Nadal has rushed the net almost as much as murray and is more succesful at it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O42V9Gw2Iac&feature=youtube_gdata_player


But again Nadal is still classified as a baseline player .


.

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-06-2012, 08:27 PM
Nadal has a better volley than Novak and Murray. It's pretty close between him and Federer to be honest. Fed seems to miss more, but he also comes to the net more. Fed was also successful at the serve and volley game, which is why I give him the edge.


I normally see Federer pull of the tricky ones and flub the easy ones. With Nadal I see him flub the easy ones and only pull off the easy ones. Yes he has a rare amazing volley(Djoker IW 2011), but his skills as a volleyer are unbelievably overrated on this forum.

MichaelNadal
03-06-2012, 08:49 PM
^^Also the one against Murray in the Wimby tiebreak, was that 2010 or 11?

BULLZ1LLA2.0
03-06-2012, 08:52 PM
That claim makes no sense. If Nadal were such a great volleyer, why doesn't he come in more than 15 times in a 6 hour match?

The same reason why he didn't stick to the 2010 US Open serving grip. Nadal spoke about this before the Australian Open. He said he doesn't like serving 130mph, because the ball comes back to him faster and gives him less time to hit his first groundstroke. It's all about comfort. Same with coming to the net. He is good at it, but he doesn't feel comfortable with it.

VOLLEY KING
03-06-2012, 08:52 PM
For fun but what amazing hands:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29kAyTmkFJM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

VOLLEY KING
03-06-2012, 09:00 PM
Commentator :

"who volleys the best, only one person : NADAL"

Amazing stop volley:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0jCwXtZ7nc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

VOLLEY KING
03-06-2012, 09:06 PM
Here's a whole bunch of serve and volleys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9r5SL8j2oI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-06-2012, 09:24 PM
Watch and learn:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOfUMrsXgjA&feature=plcp&context=C3bc2896UDOEgsToPDskKDYcuHXrY1CeXZ_gxDTkdf

I agree watch and learn.

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-06-2012, 09:26 PM
Commentator :

"who volleys the best, only one person : NADAL"

Amazing stop volley:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0jCwXtZ7nc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

You must be joking right? I mean volley king, you are joking right?

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-06-2012, 09:29 PM
The same reason why he didn't stick to the 2010 US Open serving grip. Nadal spoke about this before the Australian Open. He said he doesn't like serving 130mph, because the ball comes back to him faster and gives him less time to hit his first groundstroke. It's all about comfort. Same with coming to the net. He is good at it, but he doesn't feel comfortable with it.

I have a feeling if he started to come in more he wouldn't seem so stellar.

monfed
03-06-2012, 09:29 PM
Calling Nadal the best volleyer in the top 4 is akin to saying he's the worst clay courter among the top 4.

tudwell
03-06-2012, 09:35 PM
He is not even better than Tsonga, let alone Federer.

You think Federer has better volleys than Tsonga? Tsonga's the best volleyer on tour right now, in my opinion. The consistency with which he hits unbelievable drop volleys is itself rather unbelievable.

TheRed
03-06-2012, 10:15 PM
Not the best, but probably the smartest.

I totally agree. I have a feeling the majority of posters have never serve and volleyed consistently before, which is understandable in this era.
Volleying is not just about how good you look doing it. It's a combination of technique and smarts (when to come in, how to position yourself, the angles to take, etc). Of the 4, I'd say Nadal is the smartest, but Djokovic is not bad either. Djoker's form is probably the worst though. He volleys fine but it's just not natural with him. He's just not very smooth, not very naturally aggressive at cutting off angles. He does it but it doesn't seem instinctive.
Murray probably is the best combination of both but sometimes just has a brain cramp (like the rest of his game) for awhile.
Fed's form is probably the best of the 4 but is the dumbest of the 4 and it's not even close. He has brain cramps frequently (especially against Nadal) where he just dumps easy volleys into the net, comes in on short balls struck in the middle of the court, gets lazy on his positioning and hits too much spin when he comes in, thus leaving the ball high for the baseliner to hit down on the ball. He does this way too much on the backhand side where for a one-hander, you should be slicing 90% of the time. And especially with Nadal, he gets passed once or twice and you can see the fear in him. He just doesn't have the instinct (right now) as when and where to come in. I think he's gotten used to scaring people with just being Fed that he forgets it's not very good strategy to come in on crappy approaches.

TheRed
03-06-2012, 10:18 PM
You think Federer has better volleys than Tsonga? Tsonga's the best volleyer on tour right now, in my opinion. The consistency with which he hits unbelievable drop volleys is itself rather unbelievable.

Agree. Tsonga is probably the best player who volleys well. Llorda is a fine volleyer but frankly, has a terrible ground game.

Paul Murphy
03-06-2012, 10:26 PM
He doesn't even have the best volleys out of the top 4 in Spain.

Well said. I'll take Feliciano Lopez's over Rafa's.

Magnus
03-06-2012, 11:21 PM
Nadal has the best approach shots, so that makes him look good at the net. But Fed/Murray/Djokovic are otherwise more skilled net players.

namelessone
03-06-2012, 11:27 PM
Nadal has the best approach shots, so that makes him look good at the net. But Fed/Murray/Djokovic are otherwise more skilled net players.

/thread.

I seriously doubt that Djoko is better than Rafa at the net though. I've seen some headpalm worthy misses from him. Fed and Murray are better yes but not by much.

All of the top 4 suck at the net when compared to a Tsonga,Stephanek,Llodra.

TennisFan3
03-06-2012, 11:43 PM
Fed is EASILY the best in the top 4.

Nadal does have better volleys than BOTH Murray and Djokovic. His follow through on the backhand volley is minimal, racquet head straight and wrist action appropriate. He is also pretty good moving forward - his explosive initial steps ensure that he arrives on top of the ball and volleys it close to the net, thereby cutting off angles.

Overall, Nadal should volley more than he should, not least because he has plenty of opportunity using his spin to drag his opponent off court laterally. And while JMac's claim of Nadal being the best volleyer is ridiculous, Nadal is no slouch at the net. IMO he's definitely better than Djoko/Murray, although there are other players in the top 10 better than Nadal at the net..

joeri888
03-07-2012, 12:21 AM
/thread.

I seriously doubt that Djoko is better than Rafa at the net though. I've seen some headpalm worthy misses from him. Fed and Murray are better yes but not by much.

All of the top 4 suck at the net when compared to a Tsonga,Stephanek,Llodra.

Or Connors, McEnroe, Edberg, Becker, Sampras etc. Worst volleying ever in tennis most dominated time.

SLD76
03-07-2012, 02:25 AM
/thread.

I seriously doubt that Djoko is better than Rafa at the net though. I've seen some headpalm worthy misses from him. Fed and Murray are better yes but not by much.

All of the top 4 suck at the net when compared to a Tsonga,Stephanek,Llodra.

again...florian mayer beat nadal in shanghai with a serve volley clinic.

Id give Mayer some volley love.

GasquetGOAT
03-07-2012, 03:23 AM
May I ask which Nadal fan voted the thread 1 star? and does that mean you agree or disagree with McEnroe?:)

nereis
03-07-2012, 04:21 AM
It's debatable who among the top four has the best volleys. They've all made clutch volleys and at the same time bricked make-able volleys into the net.

VOLLEY KING
03-07-2012, 04:55 AM
Who has better touch ,Federer or Nadal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRzi94AaTpY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

feetofclay
03-07-2012, 05:19 AM
Who has better touch ,Federer or Nadal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRzi94AaTpY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

There really isn't anything to choose between them, both have great touch.

Thanks for all the you tube videos, it's good to see those shots again.

Gorecki
03-07-2012, 05:32 AM
woes noes... Dumbo is back...

VOLLEY KING
03-07-2012, 05:46 AM
Nadal at just 12 years old employing his "sneak volley"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4HHwnlcHYE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

GasquetGOAT
03-07-2012, 05:50 AM
Who has better touch ,Federer or Nadal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRzi94AaTpY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Federer has a more fluid natural motion although both just as effective.

GasquetGOAT
03-07-2012, 05:50 AM
Nadal at just 12 years old employing his "sneak volley"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4HHwnlcHYE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Djokovic's volleys are underrated on here, I'm afraid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHAYKflsslM

ZeroSkid
03-07-2012, 05:55 AM
IIRC, McEnroe has said again during the Aus Open that Nadal is the best volleyer among the top 4. Searching through some of the old threads, McEnroe has made this claim quite a few times since 2010. I, for one, find this claim absolutely amusing when you can often count the number of times Nadal came to the net, on one hand. He may have a high winning percentage at the net but does that make him a better volleyer than Murray, Djokovic and Federer?




:neutral::-|:-?

He is a great volleyer but Federer is far better and Murray is a bit better too. Rafa is definitely better than Nole at the net though

tennis_pro
03-07-2012, 07:10 AM
He is a great volleyer but Federer is far better and Murray is a bit better too. Rafa is definitely better than Nole at the net though

Djokovic used to hit some good volleys a few years ago (like at the 2008 AO), I think that area of his game has declined

GasquetGOAT
03-07-2012, 07:59 AM
He is a great volleyer but Federer is far better and Murray is a bit better too. Rafa is definitely better than Nole at the net though

What were the number of points won at the net for both Nadal and Djokovic in all those 7 finals? I wouldn't be surprised if Djokovic is ahead.

VOLLEY KING
03-07-2012, 08:06 AM
What were the number of points won at the net for both Nadal and Djokovic in all those 7 finals? I wouldn't be surprised if Djokovic is ahead.


I'm not sure but against Murray , Nadal had better stats at the net.......at this point in the match Nadal is
12 for 13 on his net points. Murray 13 for 19. Nadal has rushed the net almost as much as murray and is more succesful at it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O42V9Gw2Iac&feature=youtube_gdata_player

jackson vile
03-07-2012, 02:34 PM
IIRC, McEnroe has said again during the Aus Open that Nadal is the best volleyer among the top 4. Searching through some of the old threads, McEnroe has made this claim quite a few times since 2010. I, for one, find this claim absolutely amusing when you can often count the number of times Nadal came to the net, on one hand. He may have a high winning percentage at the net but does that make him a better volleyer than Murray, Djokovic and Federer?




:neutral::-|:-?



People seem to think Federer is the best, but the majority of the time when Federer and Nadal are both at the net Nadal wins. Being good at something has nothing to do with looks, rather results.

Crazy man
03-07-2012, 05:18 PM
Nadal has a smart net game. Very good approaches help his limited technique at the net, he also doesn't have the anticipation and the ability to read the pass as well as the other three players. He's also not that flexible at the net. However he counters this with very sensible approaches. You don't need to be able to volley amazingly well to win at the net, the approach is a lot more important.


Federer is the best volleyer. Lacks focus and does make sloppy errors at times, but from a technical standpoint he does everything right (volleys with his feet/keeps moving). His fast reflexes and great hand & eye coordination is arguably only bested at the net by Llodra IMO. Definately posseses the best touch volleys out of the top 4 too.




Djokovic could be very good at the net he's got the dexterity, touch, anticipation, quick movement and 'improv' to potentially be the best out of the four if he worked hard at it. But seriously, I think he's found the formula for winning matches.



Murray. Too defensive to even get to the net.




Nadal being the best volleyer? No not in my opinion. Remember we are talking the volley as a stand alone shot; Give him approaches that Federer comes in on (after a return, per say) and he gets buried. Federer on the other hand has won matches at the net and doesn't approach half as sensible as Nadal. Hence technically, Federer has a better volley than Nadal. Djokovic and Murray rarely come to the net so these players don't even matter in this debate.

JustBob
03-07-2012, 05:25 PM
in the top 4 what?

Nadal the Best Volleyer in the Top 4 players from Mallorca?

Ah ok, then yes.

tennis_pro
03-07-2012, 05:29 PM
People seem to think Federer is the best, but the majority of the time when Federer and Nadal are both at the net Nadal wins. Being good at something has nothing to do with looks, rather results.

How often do we see BOTH Federer and Nadal at the net? You mean when Nadal hits a passing shot and rushes the net expecting a drop volley from Federer?

tennis_pro
03-07-2012, 05:40 PM
That's a very good post man, I agree with almost everything you said.

Nadal has a smart net game. Very good approaches help his limited technique at the net, he also doesn't have the anticipation and the ability to read the pass as well as the other three players. He's also not that flexible at the net. However he counters this with very sensible approaches. You don't need to be able to volley amazingly well to win at the net, the approach is a lot more important.

I think the mystery is solved. Nadal doesn't even come close to being the best volleyer in the top 4. The fact is that he more than makes up for it with his ground game... and in the slowest era ever why would you bother to come to the net, anyway?

Federer is the best volleyer. Lacks focus and does make sloppy errors at times, but from a technical standpoint he does everything right (volleys with his feet/keeps moving). His fast reflexes and great hand & eye coordination is arguably only bested at the net by Llodra IMO. Definately posseses the best touch volleys out of the top 4 too.

He's the only active player next to Hewitt who remembers the late 90's/early 00's and still knows how to volley well. His skills at the net have declined a bit since Fed's bread and better are groundstrokes. When on, the man's got the full package.

Djokovic could be very good at the net he's got the dexterity, touch, anticipation, quick movement and 'improv' to potentially be the best out of the four if he worked hard at it. But seriously, I think he's found the formula for winning matches.

As years have gone by, just as Federer's, Djokovic's volley skills have declined. I remember Novak hitting some decent volleys around 2007-2008 but haven't seen him a lot at the net recently.


Murray. Too defensive to even get to the net.

Ditto. When playing aggressive and attacking the net, the man used to hit all sorts of volleys, right now he's happy staying behind the baseline.

fundrazer
03-07-2012, 05:56 PM
Well, I wouldn't say that Nadal has a smart net game. I feel that too often he is slicing his volleys and/or not putting them away when he should. However, I do agree 100% about his approaches.

FlashFlare11
03-07-2012, 06:51 PM
People seem to think Federer is the best, but the majority of the time when Federer and Nadal are both at the net Nadal wins. Being good at something has nothing to do with looks, rather results.

Federer shows more variety and skill at the net. Most of the time, Nadal only has to hit one volley per net approach to end the point because he's already in a hugely advantageous position and is absolutely sure when coming in that the point will end with his next shot. Federer won't come in entirely sure that he'll win the point with his next volley (or at all), but will use his volleying skills more effectively to gain the upper-hand against his opponent and finish the point at the net with multiple volleys.

VOLLEY KING
03-07-2012, 08:33 PM
Federer shows more variety and skill at the net. Most of the time, Nadal only has to hit one volley per net approach to end the point because he's already in a hugely advantageous position and is absolutely sure when coming in that the point will end with his next shot. Federer won't come in entirely sure that he'll win the point with his next volley (or at all), but will use his volleying skills more effectively to gain the upper-hand against his opponent and finish the point at the net with multiple volleys.

Ummmmmm no.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWKydyrzHfo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

phnx90
03-07-2012, 08:41 PM
Ummmmmm no.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWKydyrzHfo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

All that video tells me from the first minute or so is just how scary Nadal's forehand is, and makes me wonder why he insists on playing so defensively, kinda like Roddick with his monster serve and defensive game/groundstrokes. Contradictions all around...but one can only hope, eh?

VOLLEY KING
03-07-2012, 09:25 PM
Watch and learn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71b3IPgKy6o&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8iI7FmTL6Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtGHd7Ga3hw&feature=youtube_gdata_player


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9a-6aoRC24&feature=youtube_gdata_player

what's interesting in the next video is look at the stats....at this point in the match Nadal is
12 for 13 on his net points. Murray 13 for 19. Nadal has rushed the net almost as much as murray and is more succesful at it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O42V9Gw2Iac&feature=youtube_gdata_player

FlashFlare11
03-07-2012, 09:47 PM
Watch and learn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71b3IPgKy6o&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8iI7FmTL6Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtGHd7Ga3hw&feature=youtube_gdata_player


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9a-6aoRC24&feature=youtube_gdata_player

what's interesting in the next video is look at the stats....at this point in the match Nadal is
12 for 13 on his net points. Murray 13 for 19. Nadal has rushed the net almost as much as murray and is more succesful at it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O42V9Gw2Iac&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Those are all very good shots, but they don't illustrate consistent net play. It's like trying to say Federer hits the best passing shots of the top four because he's hit a couple "tweeners" as passing shots; none of them do it that much and when they do, it's few and far between. My point is that Nadal doesn't hit volleys like that all the time. But in most of those videos, Nadal only hit one volley to end the point and many times, he was already in a winning position. You posted four examples which show more one-offs than the norm, and the norm that I've witnessed is that Nadal comes in when he is almost absolutely sure the point is going to end with his volley.

GasquetGOAT
03-08-2012, 12:18 AM
People seem to think Federer is the best, but the majority of the time when Federer and Nadal are both at the net Nadal wins. Being good at something has nothing to do with looks, rather results.

Like others have said, Nadal only comes to the net when he's in a winning position to finish the point off, comparing Federer and Nadal against each other is pointless, afterall, Nadal is leading the H2H in case the Nadalturds forget;) A better comparison would be, points won at the net against the field.

VOLLEY KING
03-08-2012, 06:23 AM
Those are all very good shots, but they don't illustrate consistent net play. It's like trying to say Federer hits the best passing shots of the top four because he's hit a couple "tweeners" as passing shots; none of them do it that much and when they do, it's few and far between. My point is that Nadal doesn't hit volleys like that all the time. But in most of those videos, Nadal only hit one volley to end the point and many times, he was already in a winning position. You posted four examples which show more one-offs than the norm, and the norm that I've witnessed is that Nadal comes in when he is almost absolutely sure the point is going to end with his volley.

Then you didn't read the bottom stat....

In the Murray match at that part of the match
Nadal had gone to the net 12 times and won 13 of his
Points. Murray on the othe hand had gone to the net 19 times and won 13 of his points
What's not consistent about 12 for 13???

You have seen video you have seen numbers what more do you want?

Nadal does hit volleys regularly and quite well. He is simply boxed in as a "clay court specialist".....and it's wrong .

I think I'm going to agree with McEnroe that Nadal is one of the best volleyers on tour. If anyone knows this it's John Mcenroe

VOLLEY KING
03-08-2012, 06:51 AM
From tennis magazine :

"Although Nadal has always been considered a baseliner, he has successfully mastered grass court tennis, much like five-time Wimbledon winner Bjorn Borg, another Western-style player 30 years ago. Nadal now positions himself much closer to the baseline, his volley technique is superior to Borg’s, and his positioning, reflexes, anticipation and confidence at net are topnotch. Against Federer, he won 71 percent (22 of 31) of the points when he approached net. In fact, for the entire fortnight, Nadal won a remarkable 77 percent (103 of 134) of the points at net. ." Paul Fein

Limpinhitter
03-08-2012, 06:53 AM
IIRC, McEnroe has said again during the Aus Open that Nadal is the best volleyer among the top 4. Searching through some of the old threads, McEnroe has made this claim quite a few times since 2010. I, for one, find this claim absolutely amusing when you can often count the number of times Nadal came to the net, on one hand. He may have a high winning percentage at the net but does that make him a better volleyer than Murray, Djokovic and Federer?

:neutral::-|:-?

Probably true! Federer, Murray and Djokovic look like lost children at the net.

Praetorian
03-08-2012, 07:03 AM
I'd like to see the stats where he has to volley more than twice. For instance, if you put one of the bryant brothers, and have a volley to volley exchange; either one of the Bryant's would smoke him. However, I do notice that Nadal has an insane instinct to know when to come to the net when opportunity presents itself. Not to say I don't think he's good at volleying, I actually think he pretty good... Just not the best. In the top 4, there's fed then the rest.

Praetorian
03-08-2012, 07:06 AM
Who has better touch ,Federer or Nadal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRzi94AaTpY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Both great shots. Federer had to stretch a little bit, while Nadal was right there, so the nod goes to Federer, on this video alone.

FlashFlare11
03-08-2012, 07:28 AM
Then you didn't read the bottom stat....

In the Murray match at that part of the match
Nadal had gone to the net 12 times and won 13 of his
Points. Murray on the othe hand had gone to the net 19 times and won 13 of his points
What's not consistent about 12 for 13???

You have seen video you have seen numbers what more do you want?

Nadal does hit volleys regularly and quite well. He is simply boxed in as a "clay court specialist".....and it's wrong .

I think I'm going to agree with McEnroe that Nadal is one of the best volleyers on tour. If anyone knows this it's John Mcenroe

Then I suppose we must agree to disagree. :)

Sorry, I watch most matches Nadal plays in every tournament on tour and from what I've seen, the "chances" he actually takes at the net are quite small because he's normally coming for an easy put away. One or two examples of where he was competent at the net isn't really comprehensive, and net points are counted when the player approaches the net to put away a sitter. So Federer, for example, could have more net approaches but have a slightly less winning percentage there, but that could illustrate that he's a worse volleyer, right?

Let me put it this way: Nadal, I think, has the best approach shots as he's able to draw amazing angles, but because the quality of his approach is so high, he really doesn't have much work to do at the net.

NamRanger
03-08-2012, 08:19 AM
Then you didn't read the bottom stat....

In the Murray match at that part of the match
Nadal had gone to the net 12 times and won 13 of his
Points. Murray on the othe hand had gone to the net 19 times and won 13 of his points
What's not consistent about 12 for 13???

You have seen video you have seen numbers what more do you want?

Nadal does hit volleys regularly and quite well. He is simply boxed in as a "clay court specialist".....and it's wrong .

I think I'm going to agree with McEnroe that Nadal is one of the best volleyers on tour. If anyone knows this it's John Mcenroe


So who do you think is the better netplayer than? Sampras or Rafter?

fundrazer
03-08-2012, 08:33 AM
Go go Pat Rafter!

VOLLEY KING
03-08-2012, 12:18 PM
So who do you think is the better netplayer than? Sampras or Rafter?

Edberg.

A volley is only as good as your serve. The serve acts as your approach shot.

Both rafter & Sampras had amazing serves and didn't have to work that hard at the net.

On the other hand edberg could serve underhanded and still volley your return away for a winner.

I think that Sampras is the greatest serve and volleyer of all time but Edberg is the greatest volleyer of all time .

.

celoft
03-08-2012, 12:21 PM
Hilarious......................................... ....................

CDestroyer
03-08-2012, 12:31 PM
Nadal at net is like an ape at a dinner table, a duck out of water, ackward and poor technique.

A good volleyer must be able to handle the ball below the level of the net. Running to the net to put away a high one does not a good volleyer make.

Nadal is best aping out at the baseline.:smile:

Power Player
03-08-2012, 12:57 PM
Not even close. :lol:

Did you hear that guys? Despite the multiple links, testimonials from other pros and simply using knowledge of tennis and decent eyesight, Clarky, the resident tennis noob claims it is not even close.

It's funny to read such ignorance. Thanks again for the laugh.

Volley King, you posted evidence to back up your arguments.

Clarky posted a smiley face. That about sums it up.

jackson vile
03-08-2012, 01:45 PM
Federer shows more variety and skill at the net. Most of the time, Nadal only has to hit one volley per net approach to end the point because he's already in a hugely advantageous position and is absolutely sure when coming in that the point will end with his next shot. Federer won't come in entirely sure that he'll win the point with his next volley (or at all), but will use his volleying skills more effectively to gain the upper-hand against his opponent and finish the point at the net with multiple volleys.

I see what you are saying, and I have seen this argument before. To be honest we really need to take a look at the stats as well.

jackson vile
03-08-2012, 01:50 PM
From tennis magazine :

"Although Nadal has always been considered a baseliner, he has successfully mastered grass court tennis, much like five-time Wimbledon winner Bjorn Borg, another Western-style player 30 years ago. Nadal now positions himself much closer to the baseline, his volley technique is superior to Borg’s, and his positioning, reflexes, anticipation and confidence at net are topnotch. Against Federer, he won 71 percent (22 of 31) of the points when he approached net. In fact, for the entire fortnight, Nadal won a remarkable 77 percent (103 of 134) of the points at net. ." Paul Fein

This is true and a stat that a lot of people try desperately to ignore. I believe that this stat is from Nadal's second Wim.? At that slam Nadal not only went to the net more times than Federer, he also won a higher percentage of those points than Federer did.

Clarky21
03-08-2012, 01:52 PM
Did you hear that guys? Despite the multiple links, testimonials from other pros and simply using knowledge of tennis and decent eyesight, Clarky, the resident tennis noob claims it is not even close.

It's funny to read such ignorance. Thanks again for the laugh.

Volley King, you posted evidence to back up your arguments.

Clarky posted a smiley face. That about sums it up.


Welcome to ignore. You can join the other poster on this site who also thought he was going to bully me around(Dudeski). Bye,bye. :)

Rock Strongo
03-08-2012, 02:04 PM
Edberg.

A volley is only as good as your serve. The serve acts as your approach shot.

Both rafter & Sampras had amazing serves and didn't have to work that hard at the net.

On the other hand edberg could serve underhanded and still volley your return away for a winner.

I think that Sampras is the greatest serve and volleyer of all time but Edberg is the greatest volleyer of all time .

.

On a different note, Edberg would probably footfault even if he served underhand.

Power Player
03-08-2012, 02:14 PM
Welcome to ignore. You can join the other poster on this site who also thought he was going to bully me around(Dudeski). Bye,bye. :)

thats fine, I can still point out how bad your posts are regardless.

mattennis
03-08-2012, 02:23 PM
Edberg.

A volley is only as good as your serve. The serve acts as your approach shot.

Both rafter & Sampras had amazing serves and didn't have to work that hard at the net.

On the other hand edberg could serve underhanded and still volley your return away for a winner.

I think that Sampras is the greatest serve and volleyer of all time but Edberg is the greatest volleyer of all time .

.

Sorry but Rafter's serve was much more similar to Edberg's than to Sampras's.

Sampras serve was much more faster than Edberg's and Rafter's.

Edberg's and Rafter's super top-spin serves were much more useful to do serve and volley effectively than Sampras's serve (because they could make the first volley much closer to the net, given that their super-top-spin serves took more time along the trajectory giving them much time to reach the net).

That is why Edberg's and Rafter's first volley almost always were much closer to the net than Sampras's first volley.

On the other hand, Sampras made much more service winners (aces plus unreturned) than both Edberg and Rafter.

VOLLEY KING
03-08-2012, 02:35 PM
Sorry but Rafter's serve was much more similar to Edberg's than to Sampras's.

Sampras serve was much more faster than Edberg's and Rafter's.

Edberg's and Rafter's super top-spin serves were much more useful to do serve and volley effectively than Sampras's serve (because they could make the first volley much closer to the net, given that their super-top-spin serves took more time along the trajectory giving them much time to reach the net).

That is why Edberg's and Rafter's first volley almost always were much closer to the net than Sampras's first volley.

On the other hand, Sampras made much more service winners (aces plus unreturned) than both Edberg and Rafter.

I agree with you and thanks for that. i have been have problems lately serving flat.

however i personally still think Edberg had the best hands of all time.....but your entitled to Rafter......its a close call for sure.

mattennis
03-08-2012, 02:37 PM
Among the top-4, Nadal is the one who best uses his net skills, i.e. he knows what he can and what he can not do at the net, so he only goes to the net after great approach shots and great angled-slices serves.

If hypothetically speaking all top-4 were subjected to a battery of real difficult net points in different situations, I'm sure Federer would be the best, then Murray or Nadal, and Nole the worst.

But knowing how to use your (excellent/good/mediocre/bad) skills is a very important thing.

For example, Edberg used very well his forehand. He did not try to make forehand winners one after another from the baseline, because he knew he could not do that, but he used his forehand very cleverly to set up points. McEnroe too.

But even if Edberg and McEnroe may have done fewer forehand errors than Sampras (for an hypothetical example, I don't know this stats), it does not mean they had a better forehand. Sampras had a much much much better forehand, and that is why he used it to make much more things with his forehand (making many baseline winners, changing completely the situation in many points after a great forehand, taking control of the point with his forehand) than McEnroe or Edberg.

mattennis
03-08-2012, 02:41 PM
I agree that Edberg and Rafter may have been the two best net players of the last 25 years (after McEnroe declined) and two of my all-time favourites players to watch.

VOLLEY KING
03-08-2012, 02:48 PM
Among the top-4, Nadal is the one who best uses his net skills, i.e. he knows what he can and what he can not do at the net, so he only goes to the net after great approach shots and great angled-slices



This is just not true. He comes in on high risk shots into on coming traffic .

I've posted videos . There no other way for me to prove it. Just watch them.

mattennis
03-08-2012, 02:53 PM
I have watched all your videos. He SOMETIMES gets to the net in difficult conditions, but not as often as the other three.

He is very clever in that respect. He reminds me of Borg, that the inmense majority of times went to the net after a very powerful super-top-spin shot very difficult to his rival to control, or after a very powerful and great first serve (he had a great first serve, very powerful when he chose to hit it, like he did when playing on grass).

cork_screw
03-08-2012, 02:57 PM
Yeah, I mean Nadal doesn't get passed much. At net, I never thought he was a weak volleyer, when he goes up there he tends to win the point. Nadal is solid at the net. I also think Nadal is the best passer. No matter what, he will pass you if you don't put the volley away and if you put it in a bad position nadal has the legs and the racquet to make some really good gets.

mattennis
03-08-2012, 02:57 PM
And seriously, Nadal has some kind of innate ability to volley quite well, much better than 90% of Tour players today, even if his style is not that of McEnroe or Edberg.

But seriously, I think Federer has made much more difficult volleys than Nadal (on the other hand he has failed many more easy ones than Nadal as well).

sunof tennis
03-08-2012, 02:58 PM
The short answer is no, he does not have the best volleys of the top 4. However, Nadal may do the best job of not missing the easy volleys. For example, Federer makes some incredible volleys that Nadal would likely never make, but at the same time, Federer misses more easy volleys than Nadal.

FlashFlare11
03-08-2012, 03:03 PM
I see what you are saying, and I have seen this argument before. To be honest we really need to take a look at the stats as well.
Yeah, it's a pretty common argument, I imagine.

I have no problem saying Nadal is an exceptional volleyer. I just can't call him the best because he isn't really willing to take chances at the net whereas other players are.

Nice to see you back, by the way!

VOLLEY KING
03-08-2012, 05:57 PM
I have watched all your videos. He SOMETIMES gets to the net in difficult conditions, but not as often as the other three.

He is very clever in that respect. He reminds me of Borg, that the inmense majority of times went to the net after a very powerful super-top-spin shot very difficult to his rival to control, or after a very powerful and great first serve (he had a great first serve, very powerful when he chose to hit it, like he did when playing on grass).

I'm just going by mcenroes opinion , tennis mags opinion, the stats and the videos which I saw with my own eyes.

But you are certainly entitled to disagree. I don't really have a counter argument because you really have not provided any evidence but I do respect your position.

VOLLEY KING
03-08-2012, 06:18 PM
I have watched all your videos. He SOMETIMES gets to the net in difficult conditions, but not as often as the other three.

He is very clever in that respect. He reminds me of Borg, that the inmense majority of times went to the net after a very powerful super-top-spin shot very difficult to his rival to control, or after a very powerful and great first serve (he had a great first serve, very powerful when he chose to hit it, like he did when playing on grass).

I'm just going by mcenroes opinion , tennis mags opinion, the stats and the videos which I saw with my own eyes.

But you are certainly entitled to disagree. I don't really have a counter argument because you really have not provided any evidence but I do respect your position.

VOLLEY KING
03-08-2012, 06:24 PM
From tennis.co.uk



"Rafael Nadal is regarded as one of the greatest players of all time. His success on clay has earned him the nickname "The King of Clay",, Nadal is also a comfortable net player, using well-struck approach shots, drop shots, and volleys when situations dictate. Nadal's touch and skill at net and his ability to finish points from that position on the court are some of the most underestimated aspects of his game."

VOLLEY KING
03-08-2012, 07:21 PM
“Why is Nadal number one?” said McEnroe. “I think because he volleys better, I think better than Federer now. He improved his serve. He took steps to make himself better.”

phnx90
03-08-2012, 08:40 PM
From tennis.co.uk

Yeah, but this is TTW. Underestimating everything Rafa does except his topspin, BH 'abuse' and time wasting is what we do best here!

MichaelNadal
03-08-2012, 08:50 PM
Yeah, but this is TTW. Underestimating everything Rafa does except his topspin, BH 'abuse' and time wasting is what we do best here!

Ain't that the truth lol.

papertank
03-08-2012, 08:54 PM
Federer is clearly a pretty big cut above the rest when it comes to volleys. Nadal is definitely second though, and has great judgement as to when to come to the net. The rare time that he gets down there he usually wins it.

VOLLEY KING
03-08-2012, 08:55 PM
I think rafa actually stopped picking his ars? I don't remember seeing it.....or am I wrong?

VOLLEY KING
03-09-2012, 06:30 AM
Nadal rushing the net behind a weak girly approach shot . It was a very soft approach hit with touch and low bouncing forcing Fed to hit it high in the air for Nadal to rush the net:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QRRiM3XF0o&feature=youtube_gdata_player

.

Chezbeeno
03-09-2012, 03:53 PM
McEnroe is a horrible troll...or he's really ignorant. It's difficult to tell which.

ordinarymangoe3
03-09-2012, 04:18 PM
he has the worst volleys of the top4. still great volleys though

VOLLEY KING
03-09-2012, 06:10 PM
McEnroe is a horrible troll...or he's really ignorant. It's difficult to tell which.

McEnroe ignorant?

http://www.essentialtennisinstruction.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/nadal-backhand-volley-mid-stride.jpg

http://www.sports-tennis.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/photo-nadal-volley.jpg

Chezbeeno
03-11-2012, 07:29 AM
McEnroe ignorant?

http://www.essentialtennisinstruction.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/nadal-backhand-volley-mid-stride.jpg

http://www.sports-tennis.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/photo-nadal-volley.jpg

Posting a couple of pictures to show that Nadal's volleys are good doesn't mean anything. The question wasn't whether or not his volleys are GOOD, it was whether or not they're the BEST OF THE TOP 4, which they are not. I also realize that McEnroe was one of the world's best players at some point and so, in theory, he should know what he's talking about, but his commentary is horrendous. He is my least favorite commentator out of everyone I've ever heard commentate.

VOLLEY KING
03-11-2012, 07:37 AM
I tried videos, statistical numbers, McEnroe and tennis mag experts.

So now I thought I'd try some pictures .

I don't know what else one can possibly do to prove it.

( by the way I think McEnroe is one of the best commentators ).

Gorecki
03-11-2012, 07:41 AM
I tried videos, statistical numbers, McEnroe and tennis mag experts.

So now I thought I'd try some pictures .

I don't know what else one can possibly do to prove it.

( by the way I think McEnroe is one of the best commentators ).

completely understand you. that is why i will now post Vince Spadea photos expecting that finally people understand that he is the worlds best rapper!

http://www.theofficepool.com/Social/file/pic/user/2011/03/7abfc3c443606500b3db94fa8052c7de.jpg

http://allhiphop.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/1000-4111-18208148-vincespadea.gif?w=230

VOLLEY KING
03-11-2012, 08:11 AM
Spaeda is the world greatest rapper . :-)

Gaudio2004
03-11-2012, 08:15 AM
I wrote an article back talking about how bold, but ultimately, foolish, J. McEnroe's commentary is (http://backhanddropshot.wordpress.com/2010/09/04/j-mcenroes-commentary-is-bold-but-foolish/).

It's 2 years old - but it's still valid to this day. Nadal is not close to being the best at volleys in the top 4, despite improving since when he first burst on the scene. That McEnroe can say it testifies to just how little tennis knowledge you need to "have" to be a tennis commentator/analyst.

Gorecki
03-11-2012, 08:18 AM
MC the Spade digz ya Homie. you be safe in ma crib and we be Cool Aiht...?

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00339/vince_spadea_tennis_339406a.jpg

Nahw dont be foolin'round 'bout ol' Gnads, as he aint got dem mad skillz on the net aiht... he got them skillz and what not, but it aint 'bout voleinn...

VOLLEY KING
03-11-2012, 08:26 AM
MC the Spade digz ya Homie. you be safe in ma crib and we be Cool Aiht...?

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00339/vince_spadea_tennis_339406a.jpg

Nahw dont be foolin'round 'bout ol' Gnads, as he aint got dem mad skillz on the net aiht... he got them skillz and what not, but it aint 'bout voleinn...

That was awesome! Really funny!

VOLLEY KING
03-11-2012, 08:29 AM
Vince Spadea’s rap lyrics for Wimbledon
Here is a rap song Vince Spadea made just for Wimbledon:

Its all in the club, The All England Club,
playing singles, mixed and dubs,
slugging passing shots and mugs,
Roger trying to an ace, crowds filled with pretty face,
hotties trying to give a hug,
and I’m giving them the shrug,
cause I’m the ****** of tennis at the Oscars of service winners,
its time for Wimbledon, mingling in England,
where’s my friends, where’s my Pims, where’s Tim Henman,
royal attendance, where’s Rich Branson, where’s my mansions,
if not now then when then,, if not you then who? Spadea ? Federer, the predator,
who’s betterer, than a big wall, or a big Nadal,
neither miss a ball ,
or the serve of Andy Roddick, Its hypnotic, its illogic, its a comet,
coming like a rocket, and its chronic. where’s our girl, Kournikova, Anna are you married?
strawberries and cream, I used to dream about a street, SW 19 ,
on Center court I’m hitting short wearing shorter shorts than Borg’s. who is Vince, where’s Williams, where’s Prince William, where’s my millions,
where’s Guga Brazilian. where’s my Brit civilians? come on Hewitt, come on do it,
just admit it, Nike said just do it and u did it, its not over Sharapova,
where’s my Rover, where’s my chauffeur get my gopher, this aint kosher.
get me back, to the days, of Johnny Mac, 18 16 making history, Bjorn’s a mystery,
I hear whispering, on the campus, that man Sampras serve attacked us,
the best ever? lets get clever maybe Federer,
how bout Henin, how about Lennon, how bout me and BBC? that be sweet,
on TV, eating scones and tea,
But I feel I won, cause I’m chillin in the Sun ,selling 4 million, having fun is number one,
I’m almost done, but my thoughts are never wrong, Wimby tennis anyone?
I aint lying sis, I’m a music scientist.
Martina, we will savor like Rod Laver, course I met her,
and Sir Edberg, Boris Becker, Having laughs with Steffi Graf ,
doing laundry with our Andre……. Agassi. Tennis’ Brad and Jolie,
has to be, something left to see,
Wimbledon, you’re my friend, our tradition, you’re our mission til the end

VOLLEY KING
03-11-2012, 08:45 AM
The joker and the Bryan's far better rappers . Here's the video what more can I do? :-)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrIDO1dWeps&feature=youtube_gdata_player


.

jackson vile
03-11-2012, 02:41 PM
They don't want to believe the stats, they just ignore it. The videos they just denied it, the photos they just forget about it. :)


McEnroe ignorant?

http://www.essentialtennisinstruction.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/nadal-backhand-volley-mid-stride.jpg

http://www.sports-tennis.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/photo-nadal-volley.jpg

billnepill
03-11-2012, 02:43 PM
They don't want to believe the stats, they just ignore it. The videos they just denied it, the photos they just forget about it. :)

so you believe Nadal is the best volleyer in top 4?

Btw, how do photos prove anything lol

jackson vile
03-11-2012, 02:48 PM
so you believe Nadal is the best volleyer in top 4?

Btw, how do photos prove anything lol

Honestly it is just too subjective to say out right that this or that player is the best of this or that, and that goes for anything.

The only way that we can make a decision is if we agree on some kind of criteria so that we can make a more accurate judgement. If we are talking about numbers then clearly Nadal has those numbers to back him up. If we are talking about looks, I don't think anyone currently on the tour could match him.

This happens to almost all of these subjects, and then we just argue back and forth.

VOLLEY KING
03-11-2012, 03:10 PM
Honestly it is just too subjective to say out right that this or that player is the best of this or that, and that goes for anything.

The only way that we can make a decision is if we agree on some kind of criteria so that we can make a more accurate judgement. If we are talking about numbers then clearly Nadal has those numbers to back him up. If we are talking about looks, I don't think anyone currently on the tour could match him.

This happens to almost all of these subjects, and then we just argue back and forth.

Yes and we have already shown that as well.

Just by the pure numbers Nadal has the highest success rate.

Then naysayers argue that all Nadal does is volley easy put aways.

In answer to that videos and pics are showing that is not true.

What more can possibly be done?

jackson vile
03-11-2012, 03:13 PM
Yes and we have already shown that as well.

Just by the pure numbers Nadal has the highest success rate.

Then naysayers argue that all Nadal does is volley easy put aways.

In answer to that videos and pics are showing that is not true.

What more can possibly be done?

To be honest I did not consider that. Those are indeed extremely difficult volleys. Certainly you have supported your case and have a lot more to offer as evidence as well.

As a result I will have to agree with you.

FlashFlare11
03-11-2012, 03:32 PM
Federer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INE4Y5CzoBM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxeD9R-sMIU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKhQ_gVK6y8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhyzOB011NU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmi0258Zu08

andry16
03-11-2012, 06:33 PM
its funny how the mayority of the points are against nadal

djokovicgonzalez2010
03-11-2012, 06:35 PM
He's better than Djokovic, that's it.

monfed
03-11-2012, 06:43 PM
He's better than Djokovic, that's it.

Succinct but absolutely spot on.

/thread

FlashFlare11
03-11-2012, 07:08 PM
its funny how the mayority of the points are against nadal

Yeah, I noticed that too! It just showcases Federer's net skills better, as Nadal, without a doubt, hits the best passing shots on tour.

jackson vile
06-09-2012, 06:55 AM
John said it again yesterday. We definitely saw Federer being out volleyed by Novak yesterday as well.

GasquetGOAT
06-29-2012, 01:40 PM
Apparently, Mcenroe was at it again (Wimbledon 2012) stating that Nadal is the best volleyer in the top 10.:-?:(:confused::)

And what happened to Volley King?

jackson vile
06-29-2012, 02:12 PM
IIRC, McEnroe has said again during the Aus Open that Nadal is the best volleyer among the top 4. Searching through some of the old threads, McEnroe has made this claim quite a few times since 2010. I, for one, find this claim absolutely amusing when you can often count the number of times Nadal came to the net, on one hand. He may have a high winning percentage at the net but does that make him a better volleyer than Murray, Djokovic and Federer?




:neutral::-|:-?

You might want to think again, can someone bring up the 2006 or 2007 Wim. volley stats. I believe in at the very least one of those Wim. Nadal went to net more times than Federer and was more successful as well.

The-Champ
06-29-2012, 02:14 PM
Apparently, Mcenroe was at it again (Wimbledon 2012) stating that Nadal is the best volleyer in the top 10.:-?:(:confused::)

And what happened to Volley King?

Becker also complimented Nadal's volleying skills.


That speaks volumes of how bad the current top players are at volleying.

Limpinhitter
06-29-2012, 02:19 PM
Deleted for mootness.

Limpinhitter
06-29-2012, 02:21 PM
You might want to think again, can someone bring up the 2006 or 2007 Wim. volley stats. I believe in at the very least one of those Wim. Nadal went to net more times than Federer and was more successful as well.

That's not saying much on either count.

kiki
06-29-2012, 02:22 PM
The addition of the volleys of Nadal,Murray,Fed and Djokovic make a medium to low volleyer...

okdude1992
06-29-2012, 02:27 PM
Becker also complimented Nadal's volleying skills.


That speaks volumes of how bad the current top players are at volleying.

true. i disagree with mac though. murray actually is pretty good at net, great hands. best out of top 4

nadal doesn't look entirely comfortable at net, but he does end points up there well. federer's volley technique is much better, but he seems to inexplicably miss sitters way too often. djoko's volleys are crap.

fish and tsonga both are pretty good at net, especially drop/angle volleys

jackson vile
06-29-2012, 02:50 PM
That's not saying much on either count.

I have to agree with you, Federer is very much a farce built on delusions of grandeur.

tank_job
06-29-2012, 02:59 PM
true. i disagree with mac though. murray actually is pretty good at net, great hands. best out of top 4

nadal doesn't look entirely comfortable at net, but he does end points up there well. federer's volley technique is much better, but he seems to inexplicably miss sitters way too often. djoko's volleys are crap.

fish and tsonga both are pretty good at net, especially drop/angle volleys

Lol at you thinking any facet of Murray's game is better than Djokovic's

The Dark Knight
09-05-2013, 09:47 AM
Lol at you thinking any facet of Murray's game is better than Djokovic's

Yes absolutely.

jackson vile
09-05-2013, 11:00 AM
Let's do this, look up and compare the stats for volleys for the top players. Then you will have your answer.

kiki
09-05-2013, 11:24 AM
To say Nadal is best volley. now is same as if I said that my kid is the best car player of the kindergarden...oui MAIS

Egoista
09-05-2013, 11:41 AM
Dunno. Seems much as I hate to admit it could be true.
Could also be that he comes in after such a devastating shot that his opponent inevitably pops up some easy street stuff...

But his reactions are lightning quick. That could also play a part I guess

Devilito
09-05-2013, 12:04 PM
Nadal may win a higher percentage of points at net because he only comes in on good shots that usually give him easy volleys. He's not exactly hitting epic Pistol shoe string volleys off of a tough Agassi return. One big factor is federer's approach shots SUCK and he often makes much tougher volleys than Nadal does. Given the exact same shot, i'd take Federer over Nadal any day. I'd take Llodra over Nadal any day given the EXACT same volley. You could however argue that Nadal is so clutch that he doesn't miss easy volleys. But that's more mental than raw volleying talent.

swordtennis
09-05-2013, 12:25 PM
That's not saying much on either count.

This and Nadal just might be the best on the top ten. But who in their right mind would volley in these courts conditions when one can just sit on the baseline and ball bash until your opponent wears out and you can then kick it up a notch and streamroll.

cork_screw
09-05-2013, 02:05 PM
People don't seem to notice Nadal's volley skills. But when he's at net, you are sure he is going to win the point. He hits a drop volley like no other. You don't see Rafa getting passed very often.

The Dark Knight
09-05-2013, 04:13 PM
People don't seem to notice Nadal's volley skills. But when he's at net, you are sure he is going to win the point. He hits a drop volley like no other. You don't see Rafa getting passed very often.

Agreed.

...

ultradr
09-05-2013, 04:35 PM
People don't seem to notice Nadal's volley skills. But when he's at net, you are sure he is going to win the point. He hits a drop volley like no other. You don't see Rafa getting passed very often.

Exactly.

And Federer often loses whenever he ventures to the net too much.

ultradr
09-05-2013, 04:37 PM
I think best volleyer in top 10 is Gasquet.

People underestimate how gifted Nadal is in terms of volleying and people
overestimate how truely good Federer is as a volleyer.

ilovetennis212
09-05-2013, 05:45 PM
I always though nadal hit perfect approach shot first and do volley.
That's why Nadal's volley got great winning percentage.
Nadal can hit drop volley with unbelievable back spin but I hardly see him hitting highlight reel volley like federer.
Of course federer gets so many passing shot by nadal, djokovic but still federer got beautiful volley. It has beautiful angles and pace, placement. He can also toying around the opponents with his volley skills.

Egoista
09-06-2013, 10:52 AM
Nadal volleys with his mind