PDA

View Full Version : Serena in her prime against men


dnj30
03-07-2012, 07:06 AM
This one has probably been debated many times in one form or another, but its a good debate. Assuming Serena at her best was probably the best womans player(hardest hitting, at least), what level of men's player would she consistently beat? Lower ranked touring pros? Satellite level guys? I've spoken to guys who say good div 1 men would beat the top women. Lets assume a 3 set match, so conditioning isn't really an issue.

rommil
03-07-2012, 07:08 AM
She would have crushed Kobayashi easily.

woodrow1029
03-07-2012, 07:11 AM
Yes! Let's have this discussion AGAIN!!!

LuckyR
03-07-2012, 07:13 AM
She would not have been able to beat hardly any mens players within her own era, since they had access to her technology and training and are superior to her physically.

However, she would have cleaned house against mens players, even "greats" in previous eras (assuming they had their original tech and training).

brettsticker86
03-07-2012, 07:15 AM
she wouldn't beat division 1 college players...no way

dnj30
03-07-2012, 07:18 AM
Yes! Let's have this discussion AGAIN!!!

Sorry man, i'm new. In fairness, is there really ANYTHING left to be discussed on this board that hasnt already been covered in a previous thread(aside from current events)?

MichaelNadal
03-07-2012, 07:19 AM
Sorry man, i'm new. In fairness, is there really ANYTHING left to be discussed on this board that hasnt already been covered in a previous thread(aside from current events)?

You go boy, you go! :)

jokinla
03-07-2012, 08:05 AM
Yes! Let's have this discussion AGAIN!!!

LOL, it has been a couple weeks.

Nathaniel_Near
03-07-2012, 08:09 AM
Serena Williams might beat ranks 2000 or so???? Dunno.

merlinpinpin
03-07-2012, 08:13 AM
Well, I guess she may have a chance against Djokovic if he's on a bad serving day.

I mean Marko, of course... :mrgreen:

dnj30
03-07-2012, 08:20 AM
she wouldn't beat division 1 college players...no way

Really? You're that certain? So, if she were a man she basically would be a 5.5 level player?

kishnabe
03-07-2012, 08:20 AM
Maybe if the men were blindfolded and facing their arse to the net.

Maybe Serena could win a point.

tennis_pro
03-07-2012, 08:34 AM
http://pigroll.com/img/putin_bear.jpg

TMF
03-07-2012, 08:52 AM
We are not even sure if Serena can beat a prime Henin(2007), let alone against the men.

Nathaniel_Near
03-07-2012, 08:58 AM
If the question is, can she beat someone maybe not more often than not but even just once while she's on her best day and they are on here worst day, then maybe she could take out an uber low rank.

Laurie
03-07-2012, 09:05 AM
I don't recall seeing how a female skiier would fare against a male skiier or a female sprinter would fare against a male sprinter.

It's a superflous question which has been done to death as has been pointed out, but won't get us anywhere anyway.

sureshs
03-07-2012, 09:21 AM
3.5 male would be competitive, 4.0 male would easily defeat her.

brettsticker86
03-07-2012, 09:23 AM
Really? You're that certain? So, if she were a man she basically would be a 5.5 level player?

maybe, MAYYYYBE lower level division 1...top level division 1? yea, right

purge
03-07-2012, 09:24 AM
the link thats been tossed in every time this discussion came up:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html

i dont think anyone was ever able to verify this article but i think its plausible. its basically the same as playing club level and wtaching people from a higher club level who are mediocre among their fellows play and thinking "hmmm looks like i could hang with them" and then when you try you soon notice that even a slight difference in pace, placement, spin and consistenty of the shots will just add up to be lethal to you if youre not used to playing the game like that. im pretty sure that serena or any other female pro would get slaughtered on the mens tour. and not just by the top guys

dnj30
03-07-2012, 10:44 AM
I don't recall seeing how a female skiier would fare against a male skiier or a female sprinter would fare against a male sprinter.

It's a superflous question which has been done to death as has been pointed out, but won't get us anywhere anyway.

I didnt bring this up as a way to beat up on women athletes. I just think it is interesting subject matter.

Tammo
03-07-2012, 10:50 AM
S he probably couldn't even beat Santoro!

purge
03-07-2012, 11:00 AM
S he probably couldn't even beat Santoro!
marat approves +10

Mick
03-07-2012, 11:11 AM
Santoro is overkill. I don't think Serena would be able to beat her hitting partner Sasha. He wouldn't be her hitting partner if he couldn't handle her.

Bobby Jr
03-07-2012, 11:26 AM
I think the current men - you could go down further than 750+ in the rankings before you met a player prime Serena could beat. Someone of Karsten Braasch's former ranking would barely break a sweat.

Tennis has gotten more and more physical - which is why you rarely see teens in the top 100 anymore in tennis. That would push the difficulty for a woman to beat a male further and further down the rankings imo.

I've seen guys ranked outside of 750 trying to qualify for smaller ATP 250 tournaments who have been amongst the top college players. From seeing how they move and strike the ball there is just no way Serena would beat them unless she went for, and made winners on every single stroke of the match.

TERRASTAR18
03-07-2012, 12:06 PM
serena made a name for herself and brought many new fans to the sport. who cares who she can beat or can't beat. all i hear is whiney country club brats who wont have half the impact that she does. as a fed and serena fan i don't need to compare them. besides that its unfair to compare women to men because of physical differences.

TERRASTAR18
03-07-2012, 12:07 PM
Santoro is overkill. I don't think Serena would be able to beat her hitting partner Sasha. He wouldn't be her hitting partner if he couldn't handle her.

or maybe he is good at getting the ball back.....most practices aren't full speed.

dnj30
03-07-2012, 12:10 PM
i just saw an old article where Clijsters(sp?) said that when she and Hewitt were a couple they would play, and she would have a tough time getting a point, let alone a game off him.
I guess the difference in power is just so drastic, even for the hardest hitting women.

li0scc0
03-07-2012, 02:06 PM
she wouldn't beat division 1 college players...no way

Some lower level ones, yes she would. Top ones, not even close.
some D1 players are barely 5.0 (guys on the bench at lower D1 schools, not the top guys!). Top women players (pros) EASILY handle 5.0 men.

Bjorn99
03-07-2012, 02:35 PM
I used to coach the number five player in the world, women tennis and I would normally beat her 6-1,6-0. Todays womens players? Would probably have given me a real tough time.

The funny thing about womens players is that they hate two things. Strong slice INTO the right hip(if they are right handers) and they don't handle a mans serve all that well, IF you can mix up the speed and spin.

But, seriously? I think Serena would have real trouble with the top four mens division one mens players, real trouble. But the rest of them? Hmmm, she probably would have a good scrap with them, because of her court coverage. But that is at her PEAK.

spiderman123
03-07-2012, 02:38 PM
She would have crushed Kobayashi easily.

She would have beaten him in a game of tennis as well.

Hominator
03-07-2012, 02:48 PM
Hmm...how about prime Serena vs. current McEnroe?

rossi46
03-07-2012, 03:43 PM
Hmm...how about prime Serena vs. current McEnroe?

She would struggle with his second serve, forget about the first. Throw in his forays to the net. How would she even get to his drop volleys which he is a master of. That just spells absolute disaster for Serenass.

rommil
03-07-2012, 04:22 PM
Hmm...how about prime Serena vs. current McEnroe?

Better yet, prime Serena vs prime rib :)

Sid_Vicious
03-07-2012, 06:35 PM
serena made a name for herself and brought many new fans to the sport. who cares who she can beat or can't beat. all i hear is whiney country club brats who wont have half the impact that she does. as a fed and serena fan i don't need to compare them. besides that its unfair to compare women to men because of physical differences.

This is true.

However, I disagree with you saying that it is only whiny country club brats who discuss these things. A lot of people are taken in by Serena's immense power while playing tennis and they are simply inclined to think that with such power, Serena might be able to compete in the men's game.

Mick
03-07-2012, 06:51 PM
Serena beat Roddick 6-1 when they were 12, i think :)

Serena said she didn't have time for a re-match.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3J34kC20H0

DRII
03-07-2012, 07:37 PM
Peak Venus would have a better chance of taking a game or two or three off a lower ranked male pro / higher end challenger player.

Venus is more athletic and better mover than Serena. Also Serena's peak serve is probably better vs top WTA players - she has better placement; but against a male pro Venus would get more service winners than Serena due to her higher pace and increased action of her serve.

dnj30
03-07-2012, 07:45 PM
Peak Venus would have a better chance of taking a game or two or three off a lower ranked male pro / higher end challenger player.

Venus is more athletic and better mover than Serena. Also Serena's peak serve is probably better vs top WTA players - she has better placement; but against a male pro Venus would get more service winners than Serena due to her higher pace and increased action of her serve.

Good point. I remember when they both first hit the scene. I thought Venus would end up being the better player of the two. She does have the better tennis body of the 2.

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-07-2012, 07:52 PM
Serena beat Roddick 6-1 when they were 12, i think :)

Serena said she didn't have time for a re-match.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3J34kC20H0

Krispy Kreme is very time consuming for her! :)

Ronaldo
03-07-2012, 07:52 PM
Good point. I remember when they both first hit the scene. I thought Venus would end up being the better player of the two. She does have the better tennis body of the 2.

Serena can open up the court better than Venus. Wins far more cheap points on her serve too. Venus at her best, forgetaboutit.

TMF
03-07-2012, 08:02 PM
Graf has a better shot than the Williams sisters.

purge
03-07-2012, 08:44 PM
Serena can open up the court better than Venus. Wins far more cheap points on her serve too.
against other wta players yeah. in atp standards her serve would be nothing special at all. same with her groundstrokes. hardly anyone on the atp would tsruggle retrieving them. no cheap points

Mick
03-07-2012, 08:54 PM
i heard that Serena would play mixed doubles with Roddick at the Olympics. I think it would be difficult for the opposing teams to break the Serena-Roddick serves, esp. in doubles :)

jokinla
03-07-2012, 10:05 PM
Better yet, prime Serena vs prime rib :)

HAHAHA, finally a match she would dominate, prime rib wouldn't stand a chance.

merlinpinpin
03-07-2012, 10:08 PM
Graf has a better shot than the Williams sisters.

And yet, I saw an extended tie-break on clay between Graf and he retired Noah ages ago. Noah wasn't really hitting through the ball (as much as he could hit it anyway, which wasn't much compared with today's game) and Graf struggled to win a single point. Still, she was handling herserlf pretty well as long as they were trading slices exo-mode, but the huge difference was the serve. Noah was kind of making third or fourth serves, and Graf could barely touch them, let alone bring them back into play. And they had trained together beforehand so she could make a good showing.

So no, forget it. The physical difference is such that men and women are actually playing different sports.

DeShaun
03-07-2012, 10:11 PM
Serena was like Ivo Karlovic-meets-David Nalbandian. Nobody had a bigger serve than hers when it was on, and the power/angles alone of nobody's groundstrokes could wear down and opponent over a complete match like hers could. She was always going to be a tough out for any female because of her power. She could have successfully played backup linebacker for a division 3 college men's American football program if she had been philosophically inclined towards feminism and making another kind of statement--how should other female tennis players have resisted such a rare combination of SIZE, speed, and athleticism?

syc23
03-08-2012, 01:58 AM
Djokovic against Serena? Please... 60 61 60

li0scc0
03-08-2012, 04:11 AM
And yet, I saw an extended tie-break on clay between Graf and he retired Noah ages ago. Noah wasn't really hitting through the ball (as much as he could hit it anyway, which wasn't much compared with today's game) and Graf struggled to win a single point. Still, she was handling herserlf pretty well as long as they were trading slices exo-mode, but the huge difference was the serve. Noah was kind of making third or fourth serves, and Graf could barely touch them, let alone bring them back into play. And they had trained together beforehand so she could make a good showing.

So no, forget it. The physical difference is such that men and women are actually playing different sports.

See, I find this surprising (I don't doubt you, I just find it surprising).
Women have marvelous timing and reflexes. Thus, I have found, women return serve far better than they serve. Top women players do not have that difficult of a time with excellent men's serves. The biggest difference between men and women is foot speed and serve speed/spin/angles.
Sabine Lisicki can serve as hard as many top men but the ball simply does not have the movement of a top male serve. But a Sharapova/Serena could return a man's serve well, I should think.
Watch high level mixed some time, and you will see Mattek-Sands, Vesnina, Pannetta, etc. do quite well returning some booming serves. The pace does not bother them. Serena would be a dream mixed doubles partner, given her serve, return of serve, and excellent doubles play.

nereis
03-08-2012, 04:20 AM
See, I find this surprising (I don't doubt you, I just find it surprising).
Women have marvelous timing and reflexes. Thus, I have found, women return serve far better than they serve. Top women players do not have that difficult of a time with excellent men's serves. The biggest difference between men and women is foot speed and serve speed/spin/angles.
Sabine Lisicki can serve as hard as many top men but the ball simply does not have the movement of a top male serve. But a Sharapova/Serena could return a man's serve well, I should think.
Watch high level mixed some time, and you will see Mattek-Sands, Vesnina, Pannetta, etc. do quite well returning some booming serves. The pace does not bother them. Serena would be a dream mixed doubles partner, given her serve, return of serve, and excellent doubles play.

It is much harder to win a point outright from the serve in doubles. Getting a first serve in is more crucial and the women can just set up to return without worrying about the changeup.

813wilson
03-08-2012, 05:13 AM
Serena beat Roddick 6-1 when they were 12, i think :)

Serena said she didn't have time for a re-match.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3J34kC20H0

Mick, this one is better. I love Roddick's comments about dump trucks.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbrdC5W07aE&feature=related

TennisCJC
03-08-2012, 05:24 AM
I like women's tennis. I enjoy playing mixed doubles.

But, Serena would get killed by any of the top 100 ATP pros. Not beaten but killed.

Karsten Braasch killed Serena and Venus at Aussie open exo a few years ago. His high ranking was 38th but I think he was ranked 203 when he beat them. This guy was ranked as one of the "5 weirdest" games by Tennis Channel. He a had an ugly game.

From Wikipdia:
Braasch competed in a 'Battle of the Sexes' contest against Venus Williams and Serena Williams at the 1998 Australian Open when he was ranked 203. A decade and a half older than the sisters, Braasch "was a man whose training regime centred around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple bottles of ice cold lager."[1] He nonetheless handily defeated the sisters in an individual set, 6–1 on Serena, 6–2 on Venus, while rubbing it in by smoking cigarettes during the changeover.

Chris Evertt once said the 1,000 man would defeat the number 1 women.

Lindsey Davenport said her retired and out of shape husband use to beat her in practice while she was top 3 in the world.

If top 1,000 ATP pros played top 1,000 WTA pros in relative postion order, the ATP pros would win every match barring an injury retirement.

I enjoy watching a competive WTA match, but there is no comparison. Serena would lose to the top 1,000 ATP pros and I am sure there are guys ranked below 1,000 that could also beat her.

DRII
03-08-2012, 05:46 AM
Serena can open up the court better than Venus. Wins far more cheap points on her serve too. Venus at her best, forgetaboutit.

What do you mean?

Ronaldo
03-08-2012, 05:51 AM
What do you mean?

Venus at her best smokes any woman. Not sure if any woman can even beat a 5.5 teaching pro. Seriously.

li0scc0
03-08-2012, 06:43 AM
Venus at her best smokes any woman. Not sure if any woman can even beat a 5.5 teaching pro. Seriously.

Well a former D1 woman player here routinely beats 5.0 men. I would think that would imply that the top women would be able to beat a 5.5.

tennis_pro
03-08-2012, 07:00 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi5AWJ8aJ4c&feature=related#t=5m05s

Roddick thinks le Big Mac would still beat Serena.

rommil
03-08-2012, 07:25 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi5AWJ8aJ4c&feature=related#t=5m05s

Roddick thinks le Big Mac would still beat Serena.

That is preposterous!!! You can put Big Mac, Wendy, Arby, Quizno etc etc across the net and Renren would devour 'em all. You can even add 5 Guys if you want.

DRII
03-08-2012, 07:48 AM
Venus at her best smokes any woman. Not sure if any woman can even beat a 5.5 teaching pro. Seriously.

Completely agree with the first sentence, but not the second.

Ronaldo
03-08-2012, 07:54 AM
Completely agree with the first sentence, but not the second.

5.5 man locally played #1 singles at a Division 1 school. 6.0 played at Ohio State. Hard to fathom any woman beating those players.

mattennis
03-08-2012, 08:09 AM
Ask Chris Evert, Lindsay Davenport, Steffi Graf, Jennifer Capriati....they said many times they could not beat even some relatives (brother, husband, friend, that weren't even top-2000 player of the time) if they were seriously trying 100%.

Arancha Sanchez Vicario played a match against his brother Emilio Sanchez Vicario in 1992 on clay and each game started 40-0 to Arancha (as some kind of edge to make the match more interesting). Emilio won 6-0 6-0. Arancha said she won MAYBE two points in the entire match, that she hit many "winners" (that would be clear winners against any woman) and Emilio would retrieve them all with such ease. That Emilio topspin shots were impossible for her to control. That she MAYBE could return ONE first serve.

Men's game has always been totally different to woman's game. The spin, the serve, the retrieving, the movement.....

dannykl
03-08-2012, 10:52 AM
Steffi held herself well against Justin Gimelstob's powerful serve and shots in 1999 Wim mixed doubles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc8iYJDpvAg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqNqtmzjVlY&feature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYzBllsK5Ho&feature=fvwrel


But yes Steffi herself said before she would not be able to win matches against top ATP players. She would never claim that women's tennis is boring and she could beat top atp players as Williams have claimed before.

Ronaldo
03-08-2012, 12:15 PM
Steffi held herself well against Justin Gimelstob's powerful serve and shots in 1999 Wim mixed doubles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc8iYJDpvAg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqNqtmzjVlY&feature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYzBllsK5Ho&feature=fvwrel


But yes Steffi herself said before she would not be able to win matches against top ATP players. She would never claim that women's tennis is boring and she could beat top atp players as Williams have claimed before.

Pity Steffi had to carry an old man.

Mick
03-08-2012, 03:38 PM
Mick, this one is better. I love Roddick's comments about dump trucks.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbrdC5W07aE&feature=related

haha. Roddick is always great in the interviews :) Thanks!

jokinla
03-08-2012, 09:44 PM
Djokovic against Serena? Please... 60 61 60

A charity game at that, his returns are ridiculous, his movement, she literally wouldn't get one game.

Paul Murphy
03-08-2012, 11:05 PM
Sorry man, i'm new. In fairness, is there really ANYTHING left to be discussed on this board that hasnt already been covered in a previous thread(aside from current events)?

Well put. Good on you.

li0scc0
03-09-2012, 06:23 AM
5.5 man locally played #1 singles at a Division 1 school. 6.0 played at Ohio State. Hard to fathom any woman beating those players.

5.5 here locally played #1 at a Northwest D1 school, plays even with a former top 10 D1 woman player (he beats her in matches, but it is not a blowout).
Imagine how Azarenka would do? :)

li0scc0
03-09-2012, 06:29 AM
I don't recall seeing how a female skiier would fare against a male skiier or a female sprinter would fare against a male sprinter.

It's a superflous question which has been done to death as has been pointed out, but won't get us anywhere anyway.

It won't, but there IS a point to it. In skiing, the sport is measured on time. Thus, you can tangibly put a man and woman on the same course and see who is faster. Same with sprinting.
In golf, you put a man and woman on the same course and see who scores lower (i.e. better).
In tennis, it is head to head. The measurement is not objective (i.e. your footspeed and serve MPH do not guarantee victory or defeat) but rather the intangibles are often what determine victory.

Rabbit
03-09-2012, 06:30 AM
I like women's tennis. I enjoy playing mixed doubles.

But, Serena would get killed by any of the top 100 ATP pros. Not beaten but killed.

Karsten Braasch killed Serena and Venus at Aussie open exo a few years ago. His high ranking was 38th but I think he was ranked 203 when he beat them. This guy was ranked as one of the "5 weirdest" games by Tennis Channel. He a had an ugly game.

From Wikipdia:
Braasch competed in a 'Battle of the Sexes' contest against Venus Williams and Serena Williams at the 1998 Australian Open when he was ranked 203. A decade and a half older than the sisters, Braasch "was a man whose training regime centred around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple bottles of ice cold lager."[1] He nonetheless handily defeated the sisters in an individual set, 6–1 on Serena, 6–2 on Venus, while rubbing it in by smoking cigarettes during the changeover.

Chris Evertt once said the 1,000 man would defeat the number 1 women.

Lindsey Davenport said her retired and out of shape husband use to beat her in practice while she was top 3 in the world.

If top 1,000 ATP pros played top 1,000 WTA pros in relative postion order, the ATP pros would win every match barring an injury retirement.

I enjoy watching a competive WTA match, but there is no comparison. Serena would lose to the top 1,000 ATP pros and I am sure there are guys ranked below 1,000 that could also beat her.

To add some color, Braasch was interviewed afterward and said he didn't try that hard expressly because he didn't want to embarrass them. He said he actually played it for fun and wasn't trying that hard to win.

And, he had just come off 18 holes of golf. (Pertinent only because I have played golf and it is a great excuse to drink beer) :)

FlamEnemY
03-09-2012, 06:43 AM
Djokovic against Serena? Please... 60 61 60

Does not compute. Women don't play 3 out of 5.

But maybe you consider Serena winning a single game against Djokovic equal to a journeyman winning a set, in which case... they pay an extra one and it kinda makes sense. ;)

halalula1234
03-09-2012, 06:22 PM
To add some color, Braasch was interviewed afterward and said he didn't try that hard expressly because he didn't want to embarrass them. He said he actually played it for fun and wasn't trying that hard to win.

And, he had just come off 18 holes of golf. (Pertinent only because I have played golf and it is a great excuse to drink beer) :)

people keep forgetting that venus was 17 and serena was 16 at the time. but brassch was like 50 something. So not none of them were in their primes

rommil
03-09-2012, 06:25 PM
Yet we could say that both Kaarsten and Serena were smokers.

chandler bing
03-10-2012, 02:24 AM
We are not even sure if Serena can beat a prime Henin(2007), let alone against the men.

This. Serena couldn't dominate weedy little Henin, so how is she going to beat a guy?

BeHappy
03-10-2012, 05:10 AM
And yet, I saw an extended tie-break on clay between Graf and he retired Noah ages ago. Noah wasn't really hitting through the ball (as much as he could hit it anyway, which wasn't much compared with today's game) and Graf struggled to win a single point. Still, she was handling herserlf pretty well as long as they were trading slices exo-mode, but the huge difference was the serve. Noah was kind of making third or fourth serves, and Graf could barely touch them, let alone bring them back into play. And they had trained together beforehand so she could make a good showing.

So no, forget it. The physical difference is such that men and women are actually playing different sports.

And yet Venus Williams serves MUCH harder than Yannick Noah EVER did and Graf returned her serves.

TERRASTAR18
03-10-2012, 08:31 AM
This. Serena couldn't dominate weedy little Henin, so how is she going to beat a guy?

How's there h2h, who has more majors, what happened the last 2 times they met?

TMF
03-10-2012, 09:01 AM
How's there h2h, who has more majors, what happened the last 2 times they met?

When Henin retired in 2008 after having an extraordinary year in 2007, she had 7 slams to Serena 8 slams. This was the starting period when Serena rack up more slams when the tour was incredibly weak. Clijsters wasn't around, Sharapova suffered a shoulder injury which led to a surgery. Players out of nowhere(Safina, Jankovic, Ivanovic, Wozniacki) reach #1 and even ended the year #1. These players are consider the worst #1 players ever, and fans have criticize about the lack of competition, and to the point some even blame on the ranking system. Added to the fact Serena spent more years on the tour than Henin. Sure, Serena has more slams but let's put it into perspective.

Also, last time Serena beat Henin was when Henin came back from retirement. Active player Serena suppose to beat a non-inform Henin but still need 3 set to beat Henin at the AO. I have no doubt a full form 2007 Henin would beat Serena.

TMF
03-10-2012, 09:03 AM
This. Serena couldn't dominate weedy little Henin, so how is she going to beat a guy?

True. peak Henin in 2007 destroyed everyone in her path.

Bagumbawalla
03-11-2012, 02:56 PM
http://www.topendsports.com/sport/tennis/men-v-women.htm

TERRASTAR18
03-11-2012, 05:12 PM
When Henin retired in 2008 after having an extraordinary year in 2007, she had 7 slams to Serena 8 slams. This was the starting period when Serena rack up more slams when the tour was incredibly weak. Clijsters wasn't around, Sharapova suffered a shoulder injury which led to a surgery. Players out of nowhere(Safina, Jankovic, Ivanovic, Wozniacki) reach #1 and even ended the year #1. These players are consider the worst #1 players ever, and fans have criticize about the lack of competition, and to the point some even blame on the ranking system. Added to the fact Serena spent more years on the tour than Henin. Sure, Serena has more slams but let's put it into perspective.

Also, last time Serena beat Henin was when Henin came back from retirement. Active player Serena suppose to beat a non-inform Henin but still need 3 set to beat Henin at the AO. I have no doubt a full form 2007 Henin would beat Serena.

7 slams but no wimbledon, when serena was often injured.....in 2010 a bandaged serena beat a healthy henin in the ao final...henin who had to cheat to beat her in 03....in form 07 henin? one year of dominance.......i say a 2010,2009, 2008, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, 1999 serena would beat your 2007 henin. yes serena had more years, but more wear and tear against stiffer competition from prime venus, graf, hingis, capriati etc. henin won against the same 2010 field as serena but they were less developed: ivanovic, kuzzy, clisters,, dementieva,safina. the same slamless safina chased henin out of tennis. the only title henin has over serena is an olympic gold medal, from a tournament serena had to pull out of. serena has had 4 in a row, something henin never had. serena is arguably goat and boat, no one has ever said that about henin.

cknobman
03-12-2012, 08:11 AM
Serena is a man, didnt you know this?

AtomicForehand
03-12-2012, 08:32 AM
Serena is a man, didnt you know this?

Which you clearly are not.

TMF
03-12-2012, 08:34 AM
7 slams but no wimbledon, when serena was often injured.....in 2010 a bandaged serena beat a healthy henin in the ao final...henin who had to cheat to beat her in 03....in form 07 henin? one year of dominance.......i say a 2010,2009, 2008, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, 1999 serena would beat your 2007 henin. yes serena had more years, but more wear and tear against stiffer competition from prime venus, graf, hingis, capriati etc. henin won against the same 2010 field as serena but they were less developed: ivanovic, kuzzy, clisters,, dementieva,safina. the same slamless safina chased henin out of tennis. the only title henin has over serena is an olympic gold medal, from a tournament serena had to pull out of. serena has had 4 in a row, something henin never had. serena is arguably goat and boat, no one has ever said that about henin.

Serena is better on grass but Henin is better on clay.

LOL about the 2010 AO. Serena was #1 which stretch up to Oct. 2010, playing against unretire Henin who was well a shadow herself. Henin has no business in taking a set from Serena, but she did !

You say Serena in all of those years would beat a 2007 Henin. Well, that's your biased opinion but don't carry it as fact.

Thanks for confirming the field was less developed. Starting 2008 was weak, which makes it easier for Serena to add another 5 slams.

Why are you trying to say Serena's career achievements > Henin when no one is arguing about it? I'm just saying a peak Henin(2007) arguably better than Serena(except on grass).

DRII
03-12-2012, 08:55 AM
Peak Venus > Peak Serena >> Peak Henin...

TERRASTAR18
03-12-2012, 09:05 AM
Serena is better on grass but Henin is better on clay.

LOL about the 2010 AO. Serena was #1 which stretch up to Oct. 2010, playing against unretire Henin who was well a shadow herself. Henin has no business in taking a set from Serena, but she did !

You say Serena in all of those years would beat a 2007 Henin. Well, that's your biased opinion but don't carry it as fact.

Thanks for confirming the field was less developed. Starting 2008 was weak, which makes it easier for Serena to add another 5 slams.

Why are you trying to say Serena's career achievements > Henin when no one is arguing about it? I'm just saying a peak Henin(2007) arguably better than Serena(except on grass).

point 1-serena is also better than her on hardcourts, and competitive on clay, can't say the same about henin the one surface goat.

point2- you are the one pulling one year like it equals greatness. the point is even in henin's best year she was struggling to beat an oft- injured serena, who beat her in miami, pushed her to three in wimbledon even though she was injured, and a first set tiebreak at the us. and henin won all of two titles.

point3- yes the field is weak, but it was weaker when henin was on top. twowords- dinara safina. she was never on serena's level, but she beat henin and chased her into retirement. and at her(safina) best never beat serena.

point 4- at the 2010 ao final, serena was heavily bandaged and was playiong doubles as well. winning a set(henin) was no big deal if you actually saw the match. serena was pacing herself after pulling double duty, she was making sure she could have enough for a possible third set......the same serena won had just won the yec where she was also heavily bandaged and needed two months to recover as opposed to henin who was practicing since september after she saw clijsters win.

TMF
03-12-2012, 01:41 PM
point 1-serena is also better than her on hardcourts, and competitive on clay, can't say the same about henin the one surface goat.
None of them are a goat on any surface.

point2- you are the one pulling one year like it equals greatness. the point is even in henin's best year she was struggling to beat an oft- injured serena, who beat her in miami, pushed her to three in wimbledon even though she was injured, and a first set tiebreak at the us. and henin won all of two titles.
No I'm not !
I'm just saying Henin in 2007 beat Serena(except on grass). Serena beat Henin at Miami but what has Serena done in 2007? Henin dominated 2007 by winning 10 titles. Did Serena ever won 10 titles per year? It's laughable of you to just using one match as it's the only thing that matter. Hilarious !

point3- yes the field is weak, but it was weaker when henin was on top. twowords- dinara safina. she was never on serena's level, but she beat henin and chased her into retirement. and at her(safina) best never beat serena.
The women's field was always weak but don't agree 2007 was weaker. Safina didn't chase Henin into retirement. Henin was already thinking about retirement in the early year. You don't know what you're talking about.

point 4- at the 2010 ao final, serena was heavily bandaged and was playiong doubles as well. winning a set(henin) was no big deal if you actually saw the match. serena was pacing herself after pulling double duty, she was making sure she could have enough for a possible third set......the same serena won had just won the yec where she was also heavily bandaged and needed two months to recover as opposed to henin who was practicing since september after she saw clijsters win.
Serena was the favorite to win the 2010 AO final. Henin was not expected to be in the final. Actually, Clijsters was the favorite to win the AO but flamed out early. Enough said.

Manus Domini
03-12-2012, 06:34 PM
Considering she's not the greatest woman's tennis player in history....

volleynets
03-12-2012, 06:55 PM
She would have crushed Kobayashi easily.

She would have beaten him in a game of tennis as well.

hahahahaa both of you are great.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

TERRASTAR18
03-16-2012, 01:34 PM
None of them are a goat on any surface.


No I'm not !
I'm just saying Henin in 2007 beat Serena(except on grass). Serena beat Henin at Miami but what has Serena done in 2007? Henin dominated 2007 by winning 10 titles. Did Serena ever won 10 titles per year? It's laughable of you to just using one match as it's the only thing that matter. Hilarious !


The women's field was always weak but don't agree 2007 was weaker. Safina didn't chase Henin into retirement. Henin was already thinking about retirement in the early year. You don't know what you're talking about.


Serena was the favorite to win the 2010 AO final. Henin was not expected to be in the final. Actually, Clijsters was the favorite to win the AO but flamed out early. Enough said.

point1- serena is goat of australia, regardless of surface.
point2- henin's best year she won all of two slams, an average year for serena. the point is even not at her best she can beat henin's best.
point3- so a less experienced field, where players like safina and ivanovic were in less shape, come again? show me proof henin was talking about retirement before the safina loss then i will believe you.
point 4- henin was a favorite because ppl expected her to emulate clijsters. clijsters was a lower odds on pick than serena and henin.

darrinbaker00
03-16-2012, 02:26 PM
Pity Steffi had to carry an old man.

She still is, you know. ;)