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Paul Murphy
03-08-2012, 11:03 PM
Andy Murray credits a much improved forehand for his upset of Novak Djokovic in Dubai and his near take out of the No.1 ranked Serbian at the Australian Open.
No. 4 Murray specifically said that his new coach, Ivan Lendl, has helped him add more weight to that wing. During his dominant period in the mid 1980s, Lendl was widely recognized for having the best forehand in the game.

"If you watch what it was like before and what it is like now, it is pretty major," the 24-year-old said. "It's not a major change but when you look at it, it's very different in terms of the way that I am moving my feet This week I have been hitting it really, really well and hopefully I can keep that up. It makes a big difference, especially going into the clay court season because it's probably one of the most important shots on clay I never used to make that many mistakes on my forehand, it's just a bigger weapon now than it was before and that's important, to keep developing weapons in different ways to win points and shorten points as well ... the more free points you can get, the less toll matches are going to take on your body."

Tennis Magazine.

BeHappy
03-08-2012, 11:29 PM
Andy Murray credits a much improved forehand for his upset of Novak Djokovic in Dubai and his near take out of the No.1 ranked Serbian at the Australian Open.
No. 4 Murray specifically said that his new coach, Ivan Lendl, has helped him add more weight to that wing. During his dominant period in the mid 1980s, Lendl was widely recognized for having the best forehand in the game.

"If you watch what it was like before and what it is like now, it is pretty major," the 24-year-old said. "It's not a major change but when you look at it, it's very different in terms of the way that I am moving my feet This week I have been hitting it really, really well and hopefully I can keep that up. It makes a big difference, especially going into the clay court season because it's probably one of the most important shots on clay I never used to make that many mistakes on my forehand, it's just a bigger weapon now than it was before and that's important, to keep developing weapons in different ways to win points and shorten points as well ... the more free points you can get, the less toll matches are going to take on your body."

Tennis Magazine.

Murray said in 2005 and 2006 that clay was his best surface, and on that ATP magazine show in 2007 that his forehand was his best shot, followed by his serve and then his backhand.

In short, Murray used to have a very bad relationship with the press. Then he hired a PR firm and they explained to him that the press just needs to sell newspapers, so if he gave them lots of quotes about how he's improving all the time they could both get what they want and they wouldn't criticise him. That's why we read about how much he's improving all the time. Constantly.

The reality is quite different and we all know it.

batz
03-09-2012, 02:01 AM
Murray said in 2005 and 2006 that clay was his best surface, and on that ATP magazine show in 2007 that his forehand was his best shot, followed by his serve and then his backhand.

In short, Murray used to have a very bad relationship with the press. Then he hired a PR firm and they explained to him that the press just needs to sell newspapers, so if he gave them lots of quotes about how he's improving all the time they could both get what they want and they wouldn't criticise him. That's why we read about how much he's improving all the time. Constantly.

The reality is quite different and we all know it.

That was a quite a meandering but ****poor rebbuttal of Murray's assertion that his forehand has improved. Do you have anything other than you saying 'oh no it hasn't'?

Has Murray been hitting his forehand better this year? Many observers seem to think so.

Murray's 'bad relationship with the press' stems from certain English journalists writing lies about him.

dannykl
03-09-2012, 02:14 AM
That was a quite a meandering but ****poor rebbuttal of Murray's assertion that his forehand has improved. Do you have anything other than you saying 'oh no it hasn't'?

Has Murray been hitting his forehand better this year? Many observers seem to think so.

Murray's 'bad relationship with the press' stems from certain English journalists writing lies about him.

I agree. I think Murray does become more aggressive in his shots. It's good to see he can go for his shots more and attack more.

Bobby Jr
03-09-2012, 03:07 AM
Murray said in 2005 and 2006 that clay was his best surface, and on that ATP magazine show in 2007 that his forehand was his best shot, followed by his serve and then his backhand..
This ^

If it's taken him until he's working with Lendl to work out that his forehand was only half as good as it could be then I think Murray has been getting too much credit as being the 'smart player'.

His forehand may have been better this past few months but, then again, he is still hitting too many second serves while he's on the way down - especially on the ad-side. It's just ludicrous that it's happening still after all these years. Tens of thousands of player and coaches worldwide know that you don't hit the ball while you're falling back down. Either he has an eternal case of the yips or he simply wont take good coaching advice.

monfed
03-09-2012, 03:43 AM
I feel Murray's taking it early and hitting his FH on the rise, noticed this glaring change especially at AO. I really hope he persists with this. He'd benefit from using a flatter DTL FH more often.

All in all, Murray just needs to find that balance and really win the big points.

batz
03-09-2012, 03:44 AM
This ^

If it's taken him until he's working with Lendl to work out that his forehand was only half as good as it could be then I think Murray has been getting too much credit as being the 'smart player'.

His forehand may have been better this past few months but, then again, he is still hitting too many second serves while he's on the way down - especially on the ad-side. It's just ludicrous that it's happening still after all these years. Tens of thousands of player and coaches worldwide know that you don't hit the ball while you're falling back down. Either he has an eternal case of the yips or he simply wont take good coaching advice.

You should write to him and tell him where he's going wrong rather than wasting your coaching talent on here.

Leaving aside the high value add comments like 'I told you so/should've done it years ago/why is he such a muppet?' - is Murray correct in what he says - has his forehand improved this year?

Bobby Jr
03-09-2012, 03:57 AM
You should write to him and tell him where he's going wrong rather than wasting your coaching talent on here.

Leaving aside the high value add comments like 'I told you so/should've done it years ago/why is he such a muppet?' - is Murray correct in what he says - has his forehand improved this year?
His forehand itself hasn't improved this year notably - but he's using it better. Although it's hard to make a good call on it based on Dubai as the courts make people play differently as the ball bounds at you much quicker. Some people take to that well, other's not so much. Murray did a good job there I reckon.

So far as the serve observations go. Serve yips are hard to weed out as they're often life-long habits that are hard to break. The fact that he does it routinely on a high percentage of his second serves - maybe 20% - says to me he it's not a pressure or form-related thing, rather a habit which he can't break. I think it'd be a struggle to find any male player with a top 25% of the tour serve who hits so many second serves while they're falling back down again as Murray. And it really affects the quality of them, as well as the accuracy.

batz
03-09-2012, 04:05 AM
His forehand itself hasn't improved this year notably - but he's using it better. Although it's hard to make a good call on it based on Dubai as the courts make people play differently as the ball bounds at you much quicker. Some people take to that well, other's not so much. Murray did a good job there I reckon.

So far as the serve observations go. Serve yips are hard to weed out as they're often life-long habits that are hard to break. The fact that he does it routinely on a high percentage of his second serves - maybe 20% - says to me he it's not a pressure or form-related thing, rather a habit which he can't break. I think it'd be a struggle to find any male player with a top 25% of the tour serve who hits so many second serves while they're falling back down again as Murray. And it really affects the quality of them, as well as the accuracy.


Now that's an interesting post - nice insight in bold Bobby. You might just be on to something there.

Laurie
03-09-2012, 04:34 AM
Murray discusses moving his feet?

Let's look at the best players, what do they do? How do they get the big forehand into play? They play the backhand side, they are either willing to trade backhands until the ball is a bit short, or they use their feet to "nudge" it down the line or crosscourt for the big winner or to open up the point, camping out on the backhand side allows this.

Ivan Lendl, followed by Jim Courier, Pete Sampras, Andre Agassi, Carlos Moya, Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and many others have understood this philosophy over the years. Lendl was probably the man to really get this tactic going on hardcourts. Clay players use this tactic as their stable.

I've watched Murray many times over the years, live and on TV and he's been basically playing the middle of the court more often than not, it was not his attitude to hug the backhand side. This is one of the things that has prevented him making the next step up, along with his relatively poor 2nd serve delivery.

I said this on another thread, Murray has quite a few technical defiencies which in pressure moments gets exposed because he hasn't got that total belief in certain facets of the game - very important facets. This has nothing to do with with talent and ability per se but more what he has really trained and concentrated on. He is playing catch up now with the other three guys so we will see how he gets on now he's identified these issues and is working on them. Issues we have been pointing out on forums since 2009.

Mainad
03-09-2012, 06:08 AM
To be honest, I can't say I've seen anything different in the way he hits his forehand. But I agree with those who say he's perhaps been hitting it a bit more consistently of late. So any improvement is along those lines rather than anything of a technical nature.

Definitely agree with those who have made the points about his weak second serve. Far more than any deficiencies in his forehand is his inconsistent service motion. His 1st serve averages continue to be the lowest of the top 4 and his 2nd serve deficiencies are well known. It's maddening to see how well he can serve in one match (71% av 1st serves v Djokovic) and then poorly in the very next (48% av v Federer). IMO this inconsistency on serve and chronic weak 2nd serve is really the Big Issue that Murray needs to address and the single biggest factor that is holding him back from getting to the very top. But many of us have been saying this for the best part of 3 years now and the problems are still there. But I do wonder if time is fast running out for him to address this chronic problem as he nears his 25th birthday?

pmerk34
03-09-2012, 06:39 AM
I agree. I think Murray does become more aggressive in his shots. It's good to see he can go for his shots more and attack more.

His 4.5 NTRP FH is a joke

syc23
03-09-2012, 11:19 AM
His 4.5 NTRP FH is a joke

I always repeat the same thing when geniuses here provide an analysis on players game: Let's see you get on the ATP tour and see if you can do better...'.

Would you trade $20million+ career earnings before you're even 25 for a world beating FH but only demonstrate this at your local tennis club as opposed to the Scot who is competing against the best on the professional circuit?

I think not.

Bobby Jr
03-11-2012, 04:22 AM
Well that didn't exactly pan out did it?

From what I gather watching his match earlier, to improve your forehand you just do everything the same but try to hit it harder. (sic) Don't worry about getting into position properly, and make sure you pirouette around and forget about having a stable base when you try to hit out.

Good to see he's still only got the one first serve in his repertoire. That'll really confuse top opponents. (sic)

Fedex
03-11-2012, 06:26 AM
Murray said in 2005 and 2006 that clay was his best surface, and on that ATP magazine show in 2007 that his forehand was his best shot, followed by his serve and then his backhand.

In short, Murray used to have a very bad relationship with the press. Then he hired a PR firm and they explained to him that the press just needs to sell newspapers, so if he gave them lots of quotes about how he's improving all the time they could both get what they want and they wouldn't criticise him. That's why we read about how much he's improving all the time. Constantly.

The reality is quite different and we all know it.

This ^

If it's taken him until he's working with Lendl to work out that his forehand was only half as good as it could be then I think Murray has been getting too much credit as being the 'smart player'.

Here's Murray's forehand, on clay, before a serious wrist injury, in May 2007, forced him to miss the French Open and Wimbledon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEJ8izO05_c

By the way Bobby Jr. I was mixing you up with another poster called Bobby who is a proper coach with a high level of technical knowledge and unbiased. Makes sense now.
The fact that you side with numpties spouting random out of context comments like BeHappy then drawing ridiculous conclusions, is the final straw for me.
You are fast losing credibility with me and good posters like Batz.
And the fact that you haven't taken Murray's injury into account says a lot.
Murray's forehand was never the same after that?
Of course it's ok for DelPotro to have that excuse though.
How can Murray have so many technical faults, in your opinion, yet achieve so much? His talent must be enormous to overcome all that.
Well maybe it is because according to Pato Alvarez, he is the most talented he's ever seen.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/13243702

Homeboy Hotel
03-11-2012, 06:30 AM
No doubt if you compare 2007 to 08, to 09, to 10, to 11...to 2012, Murray's forehand is different every year.

Now, with a bit more maturity and knowledge in the form of Lendl he should be on the right path. Slowly.

Yeah he lost today and his forehand is 'improving' but it doesn't mean you're not gonna loose matches because of a work-in-progress shot, is it?

Murray said he's improving his forehand and now because of that people expect him not to lose another match for the rest of his career. I don't understand the opportunistic logic.

Leto
03-11-2012, 07:09 AM
Of course someone with Lendl's experience will have a positive impact on Murray's mechanics and equally important, tactical skills.

But last time I checked, Lendl is a tennis icon....not a psychiatrist.

Murray's forehand has been "good enough" to win a slam, for years now. It's his mental game that really needs the 'improving'....

Bobby Jr
03-11-2012, 07:13 AM
By the way Bobby Jr. I was mixing you up with another poster called Bobby who is a proper coach..
I wasn't aware of him/her either. But, I take on board your thinly veiled attempt at an insult.

The fact that you side with numpties spouting random out of context comments like BeHappy then drawing ridiculous conclusions, is the final straw for me.
I've not sided with anyone, rather made my own calls based on what I have seen happen over the course of many dozens of Murray's matches. If others saw the same/similar then perhaps it's because there is merit in them.??

You are fast losing credibility with me and good posters like Batz.
Can you please send me the list of "good" posters so I can keep an eye out. From what I can tell from Batz's last post above he/she was agreeing with me.

And the fact that you haven't taken Murray's injury into account says a lot.
Wrist injuries don't change your footwork or where you intend to hit the ball. Nor do they alter your balance or hitting stance - both of which Murray is inconsistent with compared to the top three and which contributes to the sort of forehand yips seen earlier.

If you don't see them then perhaps you should work out why you have your back up defending Murray here using points such as his wrist injury which are basically irrelevant. He even said himself as recently as the past week how good he's hitting his forehand... and last week he was hitting it generally pretty well when he played both Djokovic and Federer. What happened today?

Or do injuries only factor in when clueless, half-arsed performances need explaining away?

How can Murray have so many technical faults, in your opinion, yet achieve so much? His talent must be enormous to overcome all that.
This is irrelevant and is just playing a defensive mindset. Faults a player may have don't render them necessarily useless at all. Edberg's forehand, Beckers consistency, Courier's adaptability, Agassi's serve, Hewitt's serve etc have been but blips in their path to achieving great things. They won despite them. If they were better in those areas would they have achieved more? Possibly. Can we be sure? No. But it's highly likely they would have. It's the same with Murray - he's achieved with the game he's got. Pointing out flaws, perceived or otherwise, is just that: surmising areas of improvement. It just so happens on days like today an area he needed to do better at is an amateur hour level things to sort out.

The forehand thing btw was obvious today. It's as obvious as his rubbish ad-side 2nd serve.

zagor
03-11-2012, 07:19 AM
Well that didn't exactly pan out did it?

From what I gather watching his match earlier, to improve your forehand you just do everything the same but try to hit it harder. (sic) Don't worry about getting into position properly, and make sure you pirouette around and forget about having a stable base when you try to hit out.

Good to see he's still only got the one first serve in his repertoire. That'll really confuse top opponents. (sic)

He does seem to go for flat bombs the vast majority of the time. His first serve is dangerous when he gets hot with it and starts bombing down aces (like in 2008 Madrid SF against Fed or 2008 USO SF against Nadal) but consistency isn't there over the larger period of time I think.

Bobby Jr
03-11-2012, 07:26 AM
He does seem to go for flat bombs the vast majority of the time. His first serve is dangerous when he gets hot with it and starts bombing down aces..but consistency isn't there over the larger period of time I think.
Yep. Flat bomb serves are awesome on the 1 day in 20 when you're getting heaps of them in. I can't understand why he keeps going for them on days when they're obviously not working. He could be better off working his way into a rhythm with a harder version of his 2nd serve. Anyone who's played a lot of tennis knows finding a rhythm on serve is key... and struggling through game after game having to make 2nd serves - especially when you've got one like his - lumps unnecessary extra pressure on the rest of your game.

As much as people here love to criticise Federer for being inflexible with his game sometimes it's actually Murry who is in most need of learning it - because he hasn't got the serve and forehand that Federer has which overcomes most opponents regardless of tactic.

Fedex
03-11-2012, 11:05 AM
I wasn't aware of him/her either. But, I take on board your thinly veiled attempt at an insult.

It's actually a poster called JustBob not Bobby. Too many Bobs.
I lost the rag with you because you only seem to talk about Murray's faults.
I'm a Murray supporter and also his biggest critic, in an objective sense, when justified. He can be infuriating but he's also a brilliant player.
The guys been no 2, 3 and 4 in the world for the past 3 years.
For once can you just tell us what he does right and would be nice to see you being more positive and balanced about the guy.

Bobby Jr
03-11-2012, 12:57 PM
I'm a Murray supporter and also his biggest critic, in an objective sense, when justified. He can be infuriating but he's also a brilliant player.
The guys been no 2, 3 and 4 in the world for the past 3 years.
If you are an objective critic then you have special of reason to be infuriated. His ample talents are constantly let down by yips in his game which either his coaches aren't seeing despite them being relatively obvious ones, or they are and he simply won't or can't address them.

Having a new coach who is famed for his forehand doesn't make your forehand better by proxy. Nor does saying it's better.
For once can you just tell us what he does right and would be nice to see you being more positive and balanced about the guy.
There is a requirement to be balanced about anything on this board? This is news to me. :p

I would be over the moon if Murray won his first slam. But it wont happen while the trio above him are playing near their best.