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View Full Version : PC knot; starting knot vs. starting clamp


mixedmedia
03-09-2012, 05:48 PM
Sorry if the title is a bit confusing; I'm not trying to imply the PC knot is a starting knot, but I have questions about two topics and thought it more effective to combine them into one thread.

I saw the PC knot on YULitle's Youtube channel and was wondering what the benefits of the knot are compared to the parnell knot or any other finishing knots.

Also, what benefits are there to using a starting clamp vs. a starting knot?

Thanks, everyone!

tinyman
03-09-2012, 06:00 PM
The PC knot does not require you to go underneath the tie-off string twice, a particular benefit in small spaces. That is a distinct advantage to the PC knot as shown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X8qYGHOdmQ


That said, I don't know that it is 'better' than the Parnell, or similar knots. I know you want the tail to lie up against the frame - and to be honest, I mostly use the Parnell knot for no other reason than it was the first one I learned.

I've never strung with a starting (bulky) knot. I guess one advantage is that the knot can't end up slipping inside your frame when using a starting clamp.

Wikky
03-09-2012, 06:18 PM
PC knot wise i'm not very sure what to say. I definitely know that the Parnell knot can squeeze into tighter spaces and is less likely to slip the the frame when stringing at very high tensions or with slick strings.

Starting knot Vs Starting clamp depends on the situation.

If i get the racquet and I see that the tie off grommet ontop is pretty beat up then i'm going to go with a starting clamp. Also if i'm working with soft strings like gut or a multi then i'm going to use a starting clamp if I'm doing a hybrid with a stiff poly that can cut into it.

If its a typical job and the grommet isn't to bad I'll use a starting knot because if pulled twice and correctly then it applys direct reference tension to the string and will not be looser because of slack. There is the "oh i always raise it 5 pounds, 10%, yadayadayada" but at least with a starting knot you know for sure. Also if i'm EXTREMELY close on string then i'll also use a starting knot since you can usually spare an extra 6 inches.

eagle
03-09-2012, 07:41 PM
I only use the Parnell/Pro knot.

http://www.keohi.com/tennis/misc/knots.htm

Easy and very secure.

Thanks,
eagle

Tennis in Hawaii: http://www.tennisinhawaii.com
Gonna Love it Tennis: http://www.gonnalove-it.com/tennis
Keohi Tennis: http://www.keohi.com/tennis

mixedmedia
03-09-2012, 08:53 PM
Thanks for the great responses guys. I think using a starting clamp and Parnell knot will be my primary method for a while just for consistency's sake.

GlenK
03-10-2012, 03:30 AM
I'm in the Pro knot camp and always use a starting clamp. I like all knots to look the same.

mixedmedia
03-10-2012, 07:53 AM
I think I'll be the same way. Thanks.

jim e
03-10-2012, 08:17 AM
Parnell works well for most finishing knots.
PC or Wilson Pro Knot works well in tight tie off spots, like when the tie off is cross string when end main gives very little room for knot as the PC and Pro knot only loops around the anchor string one time so it takes less space, and it holds well.When you string one of those racquets, you will know what I am talking about as the knot will be right up against the end main string, where the PC and Pro knot takes less space and works very nice in those areas.

Some stringers like a starting knot to start cross strings, but I never liked that bulky knot. At one time I used a starting clamp to start cross strings and use a finishing knot (Parnell) , now I used a different technique for starting cross strings using a finishing knot since I do not pull against a knot, and not even needing a starting clamp. Many different preferences with this.

mixedmedia
03-10-2012, 09:43 AM
Okay, that makes sense about the space issue. What technique do you now use?

tiebraek
03-10-2012, 09:50 AM
I used to use the pc knot in tight spaces..but now prefer parnell knot..it's so much easier and better keep all knots the same. I always use the starting clamp and I don't know how I can do without it....especially to start the crosses..

jim e
03-10-2012, 11:27 AM
Okay, that makes sense about the space issue. What technique do you now use?

I start cross strings by weaving the 2nd from the top cross 1st, then weave the top cross as less handeling string that way.
I then tension both top 2 cross strings just to set the anchor clamp, as I place the machines fixed clamp on far end away from tension head on 2nd cross string.
I then tension the 1st cross string, clamp and tie off, Parnell knot.
I then weave 3rd cross, then tension 2nd cross, release that anchor clamp, clamp the 2nd cross, and continue as normal. Its simple and works. I submitted this to the USRSA and they published this in RSI mag. last summer.

mixedmedia
03-10-2012, 11:52 AM
Thanks for the description. And if you don't mind, how do you start the mains? I seem to remember you string a lot of gut; I plan to as well, so I'm basically looking for the safest way to string a racquet. "Double pulling" and that type of stuff where the sting gets tensioned multiple times worries me a bit, since it seems like it would be bad for the string (or harm its characteristics), esp. using that on the center mains, which run right through everywhere one generally hits.

jim e
03-10-2012, 12:24 PM
Thanks for the description. And if you don't mind, how do you start the mains? I seem to remember you string a lot of gut; I plan to as well, so I'm basically looking for the safest way to string a racquet. "Double pulling" and that type of stuff where the sting gets tensioned multiple times worries me a bit, since it seems like it would be bad for the string (or harm its characteristics), esp. using that on the center mains, which run right through everywhere one generally hits.

I start mains very similar. I install the center 2 mains and pull them together, and this is not that much tension as it is 2 strings so the amount of tension it places on the strings is insignificant.
I then clamp one center main farthest from tension head, then I place a starting clamp on outside of racquet on same string that has the anchor clamp, as this backs up the anchor clamp as the anchor does not need to be overtightened as the anchor has a starting clamp keeping some tension in the opposite direction that you place when you tension the opposite side main, and it also keeps the anchor clamp from falling down, and it keeps the string straight in the anchor clamp along with some tension of the string inside the anchor clamp.
I then tension the opposite side 2 mains, then go back and tension the string with the anchor clamp and continue as normal. I do string a lot of gut and never had an issue with this. This technique was published in RSI mag. and was written by a pesron named Yusuki, as it is his method of starting mains.
You see when you start mains and do not have something backing up the anchor clamp it places the most amount of stress on that anchor more than any other clamp as there is no opposing forces on that clamp, and with this technique the anchor does not need to be overtightened to crush the string, as that can easily happen, or if it was too loose it can cause the string to slip marring string. This eliminates all those issues so the center mains stay in good condition especially nat. gut.Also when I pull a string a second time, I typically wrap the string an additional time around the diablo so the tension head jaws are placed in a different position , as that is easier on the strings. This technique is easier on strings.

mixedmedia
03-10-2012, 04:16 PM
Oh, okay, it's actually easier on strings. Awesome. And thanks for the tip about double wrapping around the tension head.

mad dog1
03-10-2012, 04:38 PM
Also when I pull a string a second time, I typically wrap the string an additional time around the diablo so the tension head jaws are placed in a different position , as that is easier on the strings. This technique is easier on strings.

Oh, okay, it's actually easier on strings. Awesome. And thanks for the tip about double wrapping around the tension head.

mixed, if you are using a gamma progression ii 602 fc, you don't have a diablo. jim e's machine has a diablo so he's able to do this.

jim e
03-10-2012, 05:11 PM
Oh, okay, it's actually easier on strings. Awesome. And thanks for the tip about double wrapping around the tension head.

I double wrap the diablo when I need to pull a string an additional time, not the tension head. There is a difference. When I wrap the string around the diablo an extra time, it then places a different section of the string in the tension head jaws therefore being easier on the string.

mixedmedia
03-11-2012, 01:00 AM
Oh, right, my mistake.

mixedmedia
03-11-2012, 01:01 AM
Is there anyway I could apply that trick with a Gamma 602FC?

mad dog1
03-11-2012, 01:42 AM
Is there anyway I could apply that trick with a Gamma 602FC?

you know what a diablo is?

Irvin
03-11-2012, 05:58 AM
Is there anyway I could apply that trick with a Gamma 602FC?

Yes you could but it is a little more difficult. The first time you pull tension do it normally. When you pull tension on the center strings again goes around the tensioner two times before putting the string in the gripper slot. This tensions another section of string but it is a little more difficult because it will try to grip the string before it is in the gripper. Once you have it in the gripper there will also be more slack in the string you have to pull out.

mixedmedia
03-11-2012, 11:20 AM
Okay, thank you, Irvin. I'll try to apply that when stringing.

mixedmedia
03-11-2012, 11:23 AM
you know what a diablo is?

Obviously, no, not really. Please enlighten me.

I couldn't think of "gripper" earlier, so wrote "tension head."

jim e
03-11-2012, 02:26 PM
Here is a picture of the tension jaws of my machine.
It has a linnear gripper (parallel plates that grab the string to tension the string.
The large round knob in front of the plates is called the diablo.
It allows the string to enter the jaws of the tension head at the same angulation each time, and also takes some of the pressure off the strings so the tension head plates do not need to take all the force to pull the tension.

You wrap the string around that diablo, so the diablo takes a lot of the tension so it is easier on the string.I use that all the time, except when the string is too short to use it like if I cut the string close sometimes on the last pull.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h111/JimandKim/IMG_0841.jpg

mixedmedia
03-11-2012, 04:07 PM
Thank you for the info and the picture! You have been a great help.

tball
03-11-2012, 08:54 PM
I had 2 bad accidents with the starting/bulky knot. It cracked the grommet for me. Twice. On a brand new racquets. Since then, I've been avoiding it. Never had problems with using a starting clamp + parnell knot.

http://i43.tinypic.com/bezjm0.jpg

mixedmedia
03-11-2012, 09:36 PM
How generous of the knot! I won't be trying it, at least not at first.

Irvin
03-12-2012, 03:03 AM
I had 2 bad accidents with the starting/bulky knot. It cracked the grommet for me. Twice. On a brand new racquets. Since then, I've been avoiding it. Never had problems with using a starting clamp + parnell knot.

http://i43.tinypic.com/bezjm0.jpg

That sure does look like a starting knot to me.

KoaUka
03-12-2012, 01:01 PM
Hey mixedmedia,

We're in a similar situation. I also recently starting stringing my own racquets. Check out Irvin's youtube channel, all his videos have been a great help and they just make sense.

As for finishing knots, Irvin's video of the wilson pro knot has been my favorite so far. It's easy, cinches up well and is good in tight places. I think the only difference between it and the parnell is that you don't have to go under the anchor string twice.

mixedmedia
03-12-2012, 01:55 PM
Yup, I have watched his videos pretty thoroughly. Thanks for the input, and good luck with the stringing!