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View Full Version : Who is the best left-hander since 1968?


BULLZ1LLA2.0
03-10-2012, 08:43 AM
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p574/olivebucket/leftpoll.jpg

tusharlovesrafa
03-10-2012, 08:51 AM
One and only rafaaaaael nadaaaaaaal!!!

Rock Strongo
03-10-2012, 08:52 AM
Can we get an "Ivanisevic in 5" picture?

phnx90
03-10-2012, 08:52 AM
I chose rafa...then I realised I'm not old enough to actually remember McEnroe, let alone Connors or Laver...

The Bawss
03-10-2012, 08:58 AM
Can we get an "Ivanisevic in 5" picture?

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/5179/connorsin5.jpg

What's wrong with connors?

kiki
03-10-2012, 09:24 AM
One and only rafaaaaael nadaaaaaaal!!!

The fact that Nadal is even thought of suprassing Laver proves this thread is not worthy for me.I quit

vive le beau jeu !
03-10-2012, 09:35 AM
i'd say it's a tie between rod, jimbo and bigmac...

Cormorant
03-10-2012, 10:04 AM
Hands down, it's the iron willed Iberian with the lustrous locks. He never did manage to beat Gaudio in South America (and lost a set to love to him no less), but he's a clay wizard elsewhere with the mere thought of his forehand defeating numerous opponents before they step onto court. He's reached more than one final in Madrid and supports Real even though he wasn't born in the capital, but keep in mind he does spend a lot of time in the city; the guy just loves to watch Madrid's giants lift that silverware. His match wins record on clay is so imperious it dwarfs the results of fairly accomplished countrymen like Ferrer, Ferrero, Robredo, Verdasco, and Almagro.























































I speak of course of Clavet, Francisco Clavet.

kishnabe
03-10-2012, 10:53 AM
Nadal is voided since he is not a natural lefty.

McEnroe wins true poll.....

Mustard
03-10-2012, 10:56 AM
Seeing as Connors is on a pathetic 8% on the ATP poll and currently has zero votes on this forum's poll, I have to go for him. He is insanely underrated.

The Bawss
03-10-2012, 11:41 AM
It's all debatable. But it's clear that in these polls, the players who get the most votes are those with the highest public profile rather than on-court achievements.

Exactly. Yes Rafa has 10 slams but come one...the other guys in this poll are Connors, Jmac and Laver.

Joke thread.

Tennis_Hands
03-10-2012, 11:49 AM
Rod Laver.

1969failedthreads

Macro80
03-10-2012, 11:57 AM
Obviously Goran Ivanisevic

The Bawss
03-10-2012, 11:59 AM
Even money says Federer will still win this poll.

kiki
03-10-2012, 12:04 PM
Even money says Federer will still win this poll.

jajajajaja.Be sure about that.

Cup8489
03-10-2012, 12:07 PM
It's all debatable. But it's clear that in these polls, the players who get the most votes are those with the highest public profile rather than on-court achievements.

I know but.. Rod Laver. Lol.

ZeroSkid
03-10-2012, 12:36 PM
As great as laver was, Nadal is definitely better.

TMF
03-10-2012, 12:40 PM
The fact that Nadal is even thought of suprassing Laver proves this thread is not worthy for me.I quit

I didn't vote, but if wanted to I pick Laver. However, Laver doesn't have to win a poll every poll, you know?

Don't quit now since you hardly argue with Nadal fans but only with Fed fans.

Andres
03-10-2012, 01:55 PM
Obviously Goran Ivanisevic
Obviously!

Mustard
03-10-2012, 02:19 PM
Obviously!

Nah, it's Thomas Muster :)

Cup8489
03-10-2012, 02:27 PM
As great as laver was, Nadal is definitely better.

I Disagree. Laver has TWO CYGS, and more majors, with the CYGS's being 7 years apart. Nadal's only claim to fame in comparison is 6 rg and his Career Grand Slam.

Mustard
03-10-2012, 02:31 PM
I Disagree. Laver has TWO CYGS, and more majors, with the CYGS's being 7 years apart. Nadal's only claim to fame in comparison is 6 rg and his Career Grand Slam.

Although it must be pointed out that Laver's 1962 CYGS was amateurs only. Ken Rosewall was at the peak of his powers in the professional game that year.

Sid_Vicious
03-10-2012, 02:32 PM
Funny when Federer aces Laver in any poll, there are Federer fans who will fight tooth and nail for their decision. Even if it entails that they bash Laver.

With Nadal and Laver polls, the same people will say that Nadal beating Laver and other past pros is sacrilege

pc1
03-10-2012, 02:44 PM
I didn't vote, but if wanted to I pick Laver. However, Laver doesn't have to win a poll every poll, you know?

Don't quit now since you hardly argue with Nadal fans but only with Fed fans.

Honestly in this particularly poll it's actually closer than some may think. Because remember that in 1968 Laver was 30 and in the twilight of his career despite the fact he would win the Grand Slam in 1969.

Laver won around 80 tournaments from 1968 on with five majors. However he does get a huge bonus in winning the Grand Slam plus he won many Master Level Tournaments like the Italian Open in 1971 over Kodes. Essentially the Sidney Dunlop Open in 1970 was a major. He also won perhaps the strongest tournament in history in 1971 in the Tennis Champions Classic over 13 strong opponents. Many of them all time greats in or near their prime.

Jimmy Connors won 109 tournaments according to the ATP but it's really in the 140's. Connors also won eight majors, WCT championships, Year End Masters. Connors also won many Master Level Tournaments.

McEnroe won about 100 tournaments with seven majors. He won five WCT championships and three Year End Masters. Plus he also won many Master Level Tournament.

Nadal so far has won about 46 tournaments with 10 majors. He also won many Master Level Tournaments.

So in my opinion I would rank it as 1. Connors 2. McEnroe 3. Laver 4. Nadal.

Nadal is close to surpassing Laver in the Open Era in a few years. He is only 25.

If it was for their whole careers Laver would be number one. But we don't have any of Laver's peak physical years here.

Thing is that Jimmy Connors' record is pretty fantastic when you look at it and it was all done during the Open Era. You can make a good argument that his record is the greatest of the Open Era.

Poll are ridiculous since in a poll here Federer won over Michael Jordan on who is the better basketball player. I think Jordan right now would destroy Federer is basketball. Maybe I should start a poll whether Nadal or Federer is better than Garry Kasparov in chess. I think Federer would win the poll.

Fate Archer
03-10-2012, 03:14 PM
The fact that Nadal is even thought of suprassing Laver proves this thread is not worthy for me.I quit

LMFAO!!

Oh my goodness, thanks for the laugh. And can't believe someone hasn't beat me to it, because after all... c'mon, from all people YOU KNOW Rafa has got the decisive H2H against the GOAT candidate...

The poll is so accurately based on facts we can hardly dispute it... right? right? :lol: :lol:

DragonBlaze
03-10-2012, 03:14 PM
Honestly in this particularly poll it's actually closer than some may think. Because remember that in 1968 Laver was 30 and in the twilight of his career despite the fact he would win the Grand Slam in 1969.

Laver won around 80 tournaments from 1968 on with five majors. However he does get a huge bonus in winning the Grand Slam plus he won many Master Level Tournaments like the Italian Open in 1971 over Kodes. Essentially the Sidney Dunlop Open in 1970 was a major. He also won perhaps the strongest tournament in history in 1971 in the Tennis Champions Classic over 13 strong opponents. Many of them all time greats in or near their prime.

Jimmy Connors won 109 tournaments according to the ATP but it's really in the 140's. Connors also won eight majors, WCT championships, Year End Masters. Connors also won many Master Level Tournaments.

McEnroe won about 100 tournaments with seven majors. He won five WCT championships and three Year End Masters. Plus he also won many Master Level Tournament.

Nadal so far has won about 46 tournaments with 10 majors. He also won many Master Level Tournaments.

So in my opinion I would rank it as 1. Connors 2. McEnroe 3. Laver 4. Nadal.

Nadal is close to surpassing Laver in the Open Era in a few years. He is only 25.

If it was for their whole careers Laver would be number one. But we don't have any of Laver's peak physical years here.

Thing is that Jimmy Connors' record is pretty fantastic when you look at it and it was all done during the Open Era. You can make a good argument that his record is the greatest of the Open Era.

Poll are ridiculous since in a poll here Federer won over Michael Jordan on who is the better basketball player. I think Jordan right now would destroy Federer is basketball. Maybe I should start a poll whether Nadal or Federer is better than Garry Kasparov in chess. I think Federer would win the poll.

I hope you realise no one was serious about the Federer vs Jordan poll.....
I mean nobody actually thinks that :lol: (atleast I hope not for their sanity's sake)

pc1
03-10-2012, 03:40 PM
I hope you realise no one was serious about the Federer vs Jordan poll.....
I mean nobody actually thinks that :lol: (atleast I hope not for their sanity's sake)

I understand but it is funny how in serious polls Federer win in ridiculously easy fashion. Personally I think Federer would win a poll on who is the tallest tennis player also.:)

Towser83
03-10-2012, 04:07 PM
too hard to pick, but laver is arguably the GOAT, Mac is one of the most talented players ever and a legend and connors is one of the hardest working players ever and a legend. Despite Nadal winning 10 slams I find it hard to place him better than joint 3rd or 4th, though to be honest if Nadal or anyone is joint 3rd or 4th on that list of players, they're doing pretty good.

DjokovicForTheWin
03-10-2012, 04:36 PM
I have to say it's a tough call for me. Sure Laver had the CYGS, but Nadal is playing in Fed's era. I would have to go with Mac to be honest. Not on achievements of course, but just pure best left hander. At Mac's peak I don't think Laver or Nadal could challenge him under the 80s conditions.

SLD76
03-10-2012, 04:40 PM
I have to say it's a tough call for me. Sure Laver had the CYGS, but Nadal is playing in Fed's era. I would have to go with Mac to be honest. Not on achievements of course, but just pure best left hander. At Mac's peak I don't think Laver or Nadal could challenge him under the 80s conditions.

raquets too?

DjokovicForTheWin
03-10-2012, 04:43 PM
raquets too?

Everything, racquet,surface, etc. Let's face it, Mac's game would not hold up at all in today's tennis.

pc1
03-10-2012, 04:44 PM
I have to say it's a tough call for me. Sure Laver had the CYGS, but Nadal is playing in Fed's era. I would have to go with Mac to be honest. Not on achievements of course, but just pure best left hander. At Mac's peak I don't think Laver or Nadal could challenge him under the 80s conditions.

McEnroe was incredible during his best year in 1984. He did some things that were stunning. Maybe my memory is faulty but I remember he took Lendl's FIRST serve on the rise and approached the net. He did that to Connors also but Connors didn't have as big a serve as Lendl.

I'm not going to necessarily compare the lefties but it would take a superhuman effort to be able to beat him that year. The guy was 82-3. He won 65.32% of his games for the year. If you don't think that's a big deal understand that the best Federer has done is be around 61%. One percentage difference is huge and McEnroe was 4% higher than Federer in his best year. He slaughtered a lot of top players that year.

Not that he's as good as the other four but Guillermo Vilas wasn't a bad lefty either. His year in 1977 was super. There's also a debate in the Former Player's forum on whether Vilas or Borg had the best year in 1977.

sandy mayer
03-10-2012, 04:49 PM
I had to vote Laver. Laver is the only genuine left handed candidate for GOAT Connors, Mac and Nadal are just a notch below.

DjokovicForTheWin
03-10-2012, 04:57 PM
McEnroe was incredible during his best year in 1984. He did some things that were stunning. Maybe my memory is faulty but I remember he took Lendl's FIRST serve on the rise and approached the net. He did that to Connors also but Connors didn't have as big a serve as Lendl.

I'm not going to necessarily compare the lefties but it would take a superhuman effort to be able to beat him that year. The guy was 82-3. He won 65.32% of his games for the year. If you don't think that's a big deal understand that the best Federer has done is be around 61%. One percentage difference is huge and McEnroe was 4% higher than Federer in his best year. He slaughtered a lot of top players that year.

Not that he's as good as the other four but Guillermo Vilas wasn't a bad lefty either. His year in 1977 was super. There's also a debate in the Former Player's forum on whether Vilas or Borg had the best year in 1977.

Lendl destroyed Mac's GOAT candidacy.

Limpinhitter
03-10-2012, 05:22 PM
Even money says Federer will still win this poll.

Bahahahahahahhaha . . . help . . . aaahahahahahahaha . . . cramp . . . baaaahahahahahahaha . . .

The-Champ
03-10-2012, 05:32 PM
I don't know about the best but Rios and Arazi were definitely the coolest of the bunch.

abmk
03-10-2012, 07:51 PM
Honestly in this particularly poll it's actually closer than some may think. Because remember that in 1968 Laver was 30 and in the twilight of his career despite the fact he would win the Grand Slam in 1969.

Laver won around 80 tournaments from 1968 on with five majors. However he does get a huge bonus in winning the Grand Slam plus he won many Master Level Tournaments like the Italian Open in 1971 over Kodes. Essentially the Sidney Dunlop Open in 1970 was a major. He also won perhaps the strongest tournament in history in 1971 in the Tennis Champions Classic over 13 strong opponents. Many of them all time greats in or near their prime.

Jimmy Connors won 109 tournaments according to the ATP but it's really in the 140's. Connors also won eight majors, WCT championships, Year End Masters. Connors also won many Master Level Tournaments.

McEnroe won about 100 tournaments with seven majors. He won five WCT championships and three Year End Masters. Plus he also won many Master Level Tournament.

Nadal so far has won about 46 tournaments with 10 majors. He also won many Master Level Tournaments.

So in my opinion I would rank it as 1. Connors 2. McEnroe 3. Laver 4. Nadal.

Nadal is close to surpassing Laver in the Open Era in a few years. He is only 25.

If it was for their whole careers Laver would be number one. But we don't have any of Laver's peak physical years here.

Thing is that Jimmy Connors' record is pretty fantastic when you look at it and it was all done during the Open Era. You can make a good argument that his record is the greatest of the Open Era.



I think you place too much emphasis on the no of tournaments ( including mickey-mouse ones with depleted fields ) ...The most important thing are the major tournaments .......Nadal could probably win mickey mouse tournaments on clay at 40+ years of age at will !


Post 68, Laver's achievements are lesser than those of the other 3 overall ....Overall he's comfortably ahead of the other 3 though.

Connors record isn't anywhere close to being the greatest in the Open era. Federer, Borg and Sampras comfortably surpass him. Arguably Nadal, Lendl, Mac too ...

Mustard
03-10-2012, 08:26 PM
Connors record isn't anywhere close to being the greatest in the Open era. Federer, Borg and Sampras comfortably surpass him. Arguably Nadal, Lendl, Mac too ...

Connors has longevity, beating all his biggest rivals on the biggest stages, and a consistency that is amongst the greatest of all time, certainly the best in the open era. Connors won 98 matches at the US Open and 84 matches at Wimbledon.

MichaelNadal
03-10-2012, 08:34 PM
^^that is absolurely crazy, that last sentence.

kiki
03-10-2012, 10:10 PM
I didn't vote, but if wanted to I pick Laver. However, Laver doesn't have to win a poll every poll, you know?

Don't quit now since you hardly argue with Nadal fans but only with Fed fans.

Well, in GS terms, Nadal is just one behind of Laver ( not counting Pro Slams, of course).And he has already surpassed Mc Enroe and Connors.

But, those 3 players, Mac,Connors,Rod belong to the GE of tennis : it is umpossible to compare eras like that...still, from 2000 onwards, no doubt Nadal is the best left handed just as Federer is the best right handed.Without any kind of question.

jeebeesus
03-10-2012, 10:37 PM
Carlos Moya cos he fooled everyone into thinking that he is a rightie :)

jean pierre
03-10-2012, 10:45 PM
1. Laver
2. Nadal
3. Connors
4. Vilas
5. McEnroe
6. Gomez
7. Muster
8. Ivanisevic
9. Leconte
10. Rios

kiki
03-10-2012, 10:49 PM
1. Laver
2. Nadal
3. Connors
4. Vilas
5. McEnroe
6. Gomez
7. Muster
8. Ivanisevic
9. Leconte
10. Rios

1-.Laver
2-.Connors/Nadal/Mc Enroe
5/Orantes/Vilas
7/Roche/Ivanisevic
9/Gomez/Muster
10/Leconte

jean pierre
03-10-2012, 11:17 PM
1-.Laver
2-.Connors/Nadal/Mc Enroe
5/Orantes/Vilas
7/Roche/Ivanisevic
9/Gomez/Muster
10/Leconte

Oh yes, I forgot Orantes ! Great player, and Grand Slam winner + finalist.

vive le beau jeu !
03-11-2012, 01:55 AM
1. Laver
2. Nadal
3. Connors
4. Vilas
5. McEnroe
6. Gomez
7. Muster
8. Ivanisevic
9. Leconte
10. Rios
1-.Laver
2-.Connors/Nadal/Mc Enroe
5/Orantes/Vilas
7/Roche/Ivanisevic
9/Gomez/Muster
10/Leconte
leconte in the list... but what about tanner ?
(but the most important is to have goran...) ;)

ZeroSkid
03-11-2012, 04:28 AM
I Disagree. Laver has TWO CYGS, and more majors, with the CYGS's being 7 years apart. Nadal's only claim to fame in comparison is 6 rg and his Career Grand Slam.

Ya only one is credible since the other one was as an amateur. Not only that, when he won, 3 of the 4 slams were on grass so his CYGS is not as impressive. With that Nadal has more slams, the career grand slam(on different surfaces) and was able to do all this in the same years as the GOAT(Federer).

ZeroSkid
03-11-2012, 04:31 AM
1. Nadal
2. Laver
3. Connors
4. McEnroe
5. Guillermo Vilas

Limpinhitter
03-11-2012, 05:10 AM
Oh yes, I forgot Orantes ! Great player, and Grand Slam winner + finalist.

Tony Roche was even greater, IMO.

Limpinhitter
03-11-2012, 05:21 AM
Ya only one is credible since the other one was as an amateur. Not only that, when he won, 3 of the 4 slams were on grass so his CYGS is not as impressive. With that Nadal has more slams, the career grand slam(on different surfaces) and was able to do all this in the same years as the GOAT(Federer).

Nadal has "0" "Slams." Although, he did come close in 2010. Even if you disqualify Laver's pre-pro Grand Slam and major titles, you have to count his pro majors and pro Grand Slam in 1967. In addition, Laver's best surface happened to be hard courts. The fact that 3 of the 4 majors were on grass makes Laver's accomplishments all the more impressive.

BULLZ1LLA2.0
03-11-2012, 05:37 AM
Nadal has "0" "Slams." Although, he did come close in 2010. Even if you disqualify Laver's pre-pro Grand Slam and major titles, you have to count his pro majors and pro Grand Slam in 1967. In addition, Laver's best surface happened to be hard courts. The fact that 3 of the 4 majors were on grass makes Laver's accomplishments all the more impressive.

And Nadal's 2010 was better than Laver's best years, because the slams Nadal won were on 3 different surfaces. Laver never got the chance to prove he could do that. Nobody has ever done that apart from Nadal.

DjokovicForTheWin
03-11-2012, 06:24 AM
Nadal has "0" "Slams." Although, he did come close in 2010. Even if you disqualify Laver's pre-pro Grand Slam and major titles, you have to count his pro majors and pro Grand Slam in 1967. In addition, Laver's best surface happened to be hard courts. The fact that 3 of the 4 majors were on grass makes Laver's accomplishments all the more impressive.

Laver has "0" "slams" as well.

Benhur
03-11-2012, 06:58 AM
The fact that Nadal is even thought of suprassing Laver proves this thread is not worthy for me.I quit

The reason for that is that it is supposed to be Open Era only. It’s the same as asking for a ranking of open era players, and seeing which left-hander comes up on top.

The most common arrangements I’ve seen are:

1 Federer
2-3 Borg/Sampras (or Sampras/Borg)
4-5-6 Lendl/Connors/Nadal (or some other order)

At this point, I personally rank them in the order I’ve put them, though Nadal will most likely end up above Lendl and Connors, but he is not there yet. So, as of now, the best left-hander in the open era (meaning the left-hander with the best record) would be Connors.

And ranking of left handers based on best record in the open era would be:

Connors
Nadal
McEnroe
Laver
Vilas

celoft
03-11-2012, 07:01 AM
Rod Laver.

Leto
03-11-2012, 07:33 AM
Best player ever, who is left-handed: Laver!

Player whose success has benefited the most/maximized the advantage of going left-handed: Nadal!

BULLZ1LLA2.0
03-11-2012, 07:37 AM
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p574/olivebucket/leftpoll.jpg

This thread reveals how far talk tennis is from reality. Currently its Nadal 24, Laver 22. On the ATP site the result from 34814 people was Nadal 58%, Laver 18%!

Cup8489
03-11-2012, 07:41 AM
And Nadal's 2010 was better than Laver's best years, because the slams Nadal won were on 3 different surfaces. Laver never got the chance to prove he could do that. Nobody has ever done that apart from Nadal.

No.

10woundedknees

Cup8489
03-11-2012, 07:41 AM
This thread reveals how far talk tennis is from reality. Currently its Nadal 24, Laver 22. On the ATP site the result from 34814 people was Nadal 58%, Laver 18%!

That's probably because the majority of voters on an ONLINE poll are snot nosed infants like you and have only seen tennis from 2008 on.

Gorecki
03-11-2012, 07:42 AM
This thread reveals how far talk tennis is from reality. Currently its Nadal 24, Laver 22. On the ATP site the result from 34814 people was Nadal 58%, Laver 18%!

People here dont apreciate you man crush eh? you can always leave us ignorant unapreciative momos and move somewhere else!

BULLZ1LLA2.0
03-11-2012, 07:43 AM
No.

10woundedknees

Denying the facts again I see. Nadal is the only player ever to win 3 slams in calendar year on grass, hard, clay. No other male tennis player has ever done this.

Cup8489
03-11-2012, 07:43 AM
Laver has "0" "slams" as well.

Are you aware of the year 1969?

Cup8489
03-11-2012, 07:43 AM
Denying the facts again I see. Nadal is the only player ever to win 3 slams in calendar year on grass, hard, clay. No other male tennis player has ever done this.

But he didnt win CYGS, so it's not better than 1969, you fool.

Leto
03-11-2012, 07:44 AM
This thread reveals how far talk tennis is from reality. Currently its Nadal 24, Laver 22. On the ATP site the result from 34814 people was Nadal 58%, Laver 18%!

Depends on what you define as "reality".

I would guess that the ATP site has users that are more casual, less educated (in tennis history), when it comes to a poll like this. Therefore, 1000's just vote for Nadal because they have probably never (or barely heard of) Laver.

But if someone is enough of a fan to participate on a forum, they are probably more informed that the "general public". So whether someone here picks Laver or Nadal (there's no RIGHT answer), I'm willing to bet they have a lot more insight to backup there vote vs. many of the 1000's on the ATP site.

BULLZ1LLA2.0
03-11-2012, 07:46 AM
People here dont apreciate you man crush eh?

You mean people don't appreciate Nadal? People at tennis talk don't, but people in the real world favor Nadal. In the survey of 34814 people-

20192 say Nadal is the best left-hander in history.
6267 say Laver is the best left-hander in history.

BULLZ1LLA2.0
03-11-2012, 07:48 AM
Depends on what you define as "reality".

I would guess that the ATP site has users that are more casual, less educated (in tennis history), when it comes to a poll like this. Therefore, 1000's just vote for Nadal because they have probably never (or barely heard of) Laver.

But if someone is enough of a fan to participate on a forum, they are probably more informed that the "general public". So whether someone here picks Laver or Nadal (there's no RIGHT answer), I'm willing to bet they have a lot more insight to backup there vote vs. many of the 1000's on the ATP site.

Talk tennis fans have no objectivity by comparison. Rarely see an objective/unbiased poster at talk tennis. Maybe there never has been one actually. Hence Federer wins every poll. Mainstream folk are less passionate, hence more open-minded.

Gorecki
03-11-2012, 07:49 AM
Talk tennis fans have no objectivity by comparison.

well... go somewhere else then!

Cup8489
03-11-2012, 07:50 AM
You mean people don't appreciate Nadal? People at tennis talk don't, but people in the real world favor Nadal. In the survey of 34814 people-

20192 say Nadal is the best left-hander in history.
6267 say Laver is the best left-hander in history.

Again, the result of a majority of those voters likely being 25 or younger, and thus have no real knowledge of Rod Laver.

A biased and skewed poll it is, just as any poll on these forums with Fed vs Nadal would be skewed in Federer's favor.

It's still a flawed poll, so it's irrelevant.

Leto
03-11-2012, 07:51 AM
You mean people don't appreciate Nadal? People at tennis talk don't, but people in the real world favor Nadal. In the survey of 34814 people-

20192 say Nadal is the best left-hander in history.
6267 say Laver is the best left-hander in history.

20,000 of those people don't know anything about Laver, beyond recognizing that he "played tennis in the old days" :-|

Cup8489
03-11-2012, 07:52 AM
20,000 of those people don't know anything about Laver, beyond recognizing that he "played tennis in the old days" :-|

It's mostly futile trying to get ********* to understand anything, as he's so thoroughly clouded by his obvious romantic feelings towards Rafa that the mere suggestion that a poll that Rafa has won is a flawed poll could set him off.

Let's watch.

BULLZ1LLA2.0
03-11-2012, 07:55 AM
20,000 of those people don't know anything about Laver, beyond recognizing that he "played tennis in the old days" :-|

You have no idea who those 20,000 people are and what they know.

Mustard
03-11-2012, 07:56 AM
Connors is being far more hard done by than Laver with these polls. Show me somebody else with 98 match wins at the US Open and 84 match wins at Wimbledon.

BULLZ1LLA2.0
03-11-2012, 07:57 AM
It's mostly futile trying to get ********* to understand anything, as he's so thoroughly clouded by his obvious romantic feelings towards Rafa that the mere suggestion that a poll that Rafa has won is a flawed poll could set him off.

Let's watch.

You are the obsessed one, when it comes to Nadal. I only talk about tennis. You seem to be here mainly to bash Nadal.

urban
03-11-2012, 07:58 AM
Its more astonishing, that Laver got so many votes on this ATP poll, because Mac and Connors are far more in the media limelight.

Cup8489
03-11-2012, 07:59 AM
You are the obsessed one, when it comes to Nadal. I only talk about tennis. You find a way to bring Nadal in to a Federer subject, routinely.

This thread was about Nadal from the beginning you tool! LOL

And still haven't addressed what I said about flawed polls, no surprises there!

It's really alot more pleasant with you and your split personalities not able to post.

Cup8489
03-11-2012, 08:00 AM
Its more astonishing, that Laver got so many votes on this ATP poll, because Mac and Connors are far more in the media limelight.

He's the GOAT of lefties, maybe of all time... can't take it away from him I suppose :)

Leto
03-11-2012, 08:08 AM
You have no idea who those 20,000 people are and what they know. What % of talk tennis saw Laver play, by the way?

I have no idea....was just generalizing, assuming that you'd understand my general drift, based on common-sense conversation (regardless of whether you agreed with it or not).

If you thought I was trying to state that I actually have statistical evidence for any of the above, including "% of talk tennis saw Laver play", then I'm guessing you're a bit too stuffy/tecnihal to understand where I was coming from.

On the other hand, the fact that you recognized that specific statistics like what you asked me for do have significance to the overall conversation, suggests that you do understand where I'm coming from to at least some extent.

Cup8489
03-11-2012, 08:10 AM
I have no idea....was just generalizing, assuming that you'd understand my general drift, based on common-sense conversation (regardless of whether you agreed with it or not).

If you thought I was trying to state that I actually have statistical evidence for any of the above, including "% of talk tennis saw Laver play", then I'm guessing you're a bit too stuffy/tecnihal to understand where I was coming from.

On the other hand, the fact that you recognized that specific statistics like what you asked me for do have significance to the overall conversation, suggests that you do understand where I'm coming from to at least some extent.

He won't admit it either way, his sole purpose is to cram Nadal's jock strap down your throat on a daily basis.

abmk
03-11-2012, 08:14 AM
Talk tennis fans have no objectivity by comparison. Rarely see an objective/unbiased poster at talk tennis. Maybe there never has been one actually. Hence Federer wins every poll. Mainstream folk are less passionate, hence more open-minded.

If you think there are very few objective posters here , please leave this site . I assure that you will not be missed !

Leto
03-11-2012, 08:17 AM
He won't admit it either way, his sole purpose is to cram Nadal's jock strap down your throat on a daily basis.

Thanks....good to know who I'm dealing with :)

But even though I voted for Laver, I still think Nadal is all-time great, so easy to understand he will have many fans who only have eyes for him!

Gorecki
03-11-2012, 08:26 AM
I have no idea....was just generalizing, assuming that you'd understand my general drift, based on common-sense conversation (regardless of whether you agreed with it or not).

If you thought I was trying to state that I actually have statistical evidence for any of the above, including "% of talk tennis saw Laver play", then I'm guessing you're a bit too stuffy/tecnihal to understand where I was coming from.

On the other hand, the fact that you recognized that specific statistics like what you asked me for do have significance to the overall conversation, suggests that you do understand where I'm coming from to at least some extent.

Nadal fans have proven their prowess in the matters of sciences. for evidence see Benhur's Theory of Observable correlation with 0 variables dependence verification, Nadal_Freak's Theorem of Geographical Relativity and the General Theory of Variable Mass of Traveling Objects, to name but a few

Leto
03-11-2012, 08:42 AM
[QUOTE=Gorecki;6382750]Nadal fans have proven their prowess in the matters of sciences. for evidence see Benhur's Theory of Observable correlation with 0 variables dependence verification, Nadal_Freak's Theorem of Geographical Relativity and the General Theory of Variable Mass of Traveling Objects, to name but a few[/QUOTE

Looks like I have a lot of studying to do :shock:

DjokovicForTheWin
03-11-2012, 09:30 AM
Are you aware of the year 1969?

Please examine the context of what I posted before undermining what I know.

Cup8489
03-11-2012, 09:58 AM
Please examine the context of what I posted before undermining what I know.

I wasnt 'undermining' what you know. were you saying that "slams" are the equivalent of majors? Because from my understanding, Limpinhitter was implying Rafa has 0 Grand Slams, IE 4 in calendar year, ala Laver, and thus when you said Laver also had 0 slams I responded based on that assumption.

If this was not your intention, then I apologize.

abmk
03-11-2012, 09:59 AM
Nadal fans have proven their prowess in the matters of sciences. for evidence see Benhur's Theory of Observable correlation with 0 variables dependence verification, Nadal_Freak's Theorem of Geographical Relativity and the General Theory of Variable Mass of Traveling Objects, to name but a few

:twisted: :)

Benhur
03-11-2012, 10:40 AM
for evidence see Benhur's Theory of Observable correlation with 0 variables dependence verification

That's nothing. I also have a theory of observable hot air through multipost inert gas detection/verification with my inbuilt HR-LSPR spectrocacometer.

Towser83
03-11-2012, 11:02 AM
I wasnt 'undermining' what you know. were you saying that "slams" are the equivalent of majors? Because from my understanding, Limpinhitter was implying Rafa has 0 Grand Slams, IE 4 in calendar year, ala Laver, and thus when you said Laver also had 0 slams I responded based on that assumption.

If this was not your intention, then I apologize.

i think he was using slams as the term for winning all 4 in one year, but saying he had 0 "slams" means he only won the grand slam once (discounting the first one before the pro era?) so hence "slam" not "slams" in the plural... at least that's what i think

Cup8489
03-11-2012, 11:04 AM
i think he was using slams as the term for winning all 4 in one year, but saying he had 0 "slams" means he only won the grand slam once (discounting the first one before the pro era?) so hence "slam" not "slams" in the plural... at least that's what i think

I'm hopin he clarifies, it will help things alot.

DjokovicForTheWin
03-11-2012, 11:06 AM
I wasnt 'undermining' what you know. were you saying that "slams" are the equivalent of majors? Because from my understanding, Limpinhitter was implying Rafa has 0 Grand Slams, IE 4 in calendar year, ala Laver, and thus when you said Laver also had 0 slams I responded based on that assumption.

If this was not your intention, then I apologize.

Limphitter is an old fart and likes to get very technical. Hence one needs to play games with him. He likes to point out that something like the USO is a Major technically and not a slam, which is certainly correct. But then along the way he also invents things like "major titles" = Majors.

I realize Limpy was saying Rafa has 0 Grand slams, but he didn't say that. He said Nadal has 0 slams. By his very own criteria "Grand Slam" = 4 Majors in same calendar year. Hence "Slam" on its own has no meaning. You only have "Majors" and "Grand slam". Therefore if he says Nadal has 0 slams, then so does Laver.

Cup8489
03-11-2012, 11:10 AM
Limphitter is an old fart and likes to get very technical. Hence one needs to play games with him. He likes to point out that something like the USO is a Major technically and not a slam, which is certainly correct. But then along the way he also invents things like "major titles" = Majors.

I realize Limpy was saying Rafa has 0 Grand slams, but he didn't say that. He said Nadal has 0 slams. By his very own criteria "Grand Slam" = 4 Majors in same calendar year. Hence "Slam" on its own has no meaning. You only have "Majors" and "Grand slam". Therefore if he says Nadal has 0 slams, then so does Laver.

ok, that's what I figured whas the case; but I think on this occasion it was fair to assume he did in fact mean 'grand slam'

DjokovicForTheWin
03-11-2012, 11:28 AM
ok, that's what I figured whas the case; but I think on this occasion it was fair to assume he did in fact mean 'grand slam'

I would have granted him that if he hadn't put quotes around it and been such a stickler before.

tennisphilia
03-11-2012, 12:32 PM
is this even a poll? nadal would cream all the other players...

Cup8489
03-11-2012, 12:38 PM
is this even a poll? nadal would cream all the other players...

Not if he was using Wood Racquets. Very silly post right here.

jackson vile
03-11-2012, 01:17 PM
is this even a poll? nadal would cream all the other players...

You really think that? All things being equal my money would be either on Laver or Mac.

Gorecki
03-11-2012, 02:05 PM
That's nothing. I also have a theory of observable hot air through multipost inert gas detection/verification with my inbuilt HR-LSPR spectrocacometer.

inert & gas do seem to be recurrent themes on your posts, the former in more than one molecular structure!

Cup8489
03-11-2012, 02:05 PM
You really think that? All things being equal my money would be either on Laver or Mac.

For once I agree! lol

pc1
03-11-2012, 02:33 PM
Lendl destroyed Mac's GOAT candidacy.

Tell you the truth I think a lot of other things destroyed McEnroe's career at the top. I suppose a back injury, personal problems etc. Lendl took advantage of McEnroe declined as he should have of course.

kiki
03-12-2012, 02:16 PM
leconte in the list... but what about tanner ?
(but the most important is to have goran...) ;)

My godĦĦĦĦ my faultĦĦĦ Tanner overwhelms that french potato by farĦĦĦ Leconte out, Tanner, inĦĦĦ but Orantes,Roche,Vilas,Mac and Connors remain well above any Tanner´s performance

kiki
03-12-2012, 02:17 PM
Ya only one is credible since the other one was as an amateur. Not only that, when he won, 3 of the 4 slams were on grass so his CYGS is not as impressive. With that Nadal has more slams, the career grand slam(on different surfaces) and was able to do all this in the same years as the GOAT(Federer).

You are as much stupid as all your peers, all aged under 20

kiki
03-12-2012, 02:19 PM
And Nadal's 2010 was better than Laver's best years, because the slams Nadal won were on 3 different surfaces. Laver never got the chance to prove he could do that. Nobody has ever done that apart from Nadal.

In 1969, besides GS Laver won the SA Open, the biggest ever har dcourt event untilm 1978 Flushing Meadows...plus Wembley, MSG...in a competitive field, not as Nadal playing the WTA tour

kiki
03-12-2012, 02:22 PM
Laver has "0" "slams" as well.

Yes, I have tried to look upon the WTA tour and haven´t found any evidence of Laver ever winning anything.I just found out the names of Court,Cawley,Hard,Reid...but I certainly didn´t find a girld called Laver

kiki
03-12-2012, 02:25 PM
Denying the facts again I see. Nadal is the only player ever to win 3 slams in calendar year on grass, hard, clay. No other male tennis player has ever done this.

Laver 2 GS, Nadal 0, maybe on Christmas (Nadal)

kiki
03-12-2012, 02:26 PM
20,000 of those people don't know anything about Laver, beyond recognizing that he "played tennis in the old days" :-|

That is the prove that the educational system doesn´t work too well...

TennisFan3
03-12-2012, 02:46 PM
LOL..at this thread. How is Nadal so ahead of Jimbo and J-Mac.

Ridiculous.

One could make an argument that Nadal may be ranked 4th in this list behind laver, Jimbo, J-Mac (in no particular order).

Limpinhitter
03-12-2012, 02:49 PM
Limphitter is an old fart and likes to get very technical. Hence one needs to play games with him. He likes to point out that something like the USO is a Major technically and not a slam, which is certainly correct. But then along the way he also invents things like "major titles" = Majors.

I realize Limpy was saying Rafa has 0 Grand slams, but he didn't say that. He said Nadal has 0 slams. By his very own criteria "Grand Slam" = 4 Majors in same calendar year. Hence "Slam" on its own has no meaning. You only have "Majors" and "Grand slam". Therefore if he says Nadal has 0 slams, then so does Laver.

^^^ Hahaha! Indisputable proof that DFW is a mouth breathing, pimple faced, 18 year old, who likes to drink stupid juice before posting on TT.

Limpinhitter
03-12-2012, 02:56 PM
And Nadal's 2010 was better than Laver's best years, because the slams Nadal won were on 3 different surfaces. Laver never got the chance to prove he could do that. Nobody has ever done that apart from Nadal.

This is incompetent in at least 2 respects. First, the 3 grass surfaces (not even considering clay), that Laver won majors on was more diverse than the 3 surfaces that Nadal won majors on. Second, hard court was Laver's best surface, yet, he won The Grand Slam playing three events on his second best surface and one on his worst surface.

Limpinhitter
03-12-2012, 03:00 PM
You have no idea who those 20,000 people are and what they know.

Wrong again! Their demographic is revealed by their votes.

Limpinhitter
03-12-2012, 03:06 PM
is this even a poll? nadal would cream all the other players...

Well sure! Laver is 75, had a stroke, and has "bone on bone" arthritis in his left wrist. That's what happens when you crush the ball with a 14+ oz wood racquet and wristy strokes for an 18 year pro career. Prime Laver with equal equipment, Nadal is better on clay, that's it! Mac's still in pretty good shape for his age though. He might hold a serve or two on fast grass against the butt pickin' finger sniffer right now.

timnz
03-12-2012, 03:29 PM
I think you place too much emphasis on the no of tournaments ( including mickey-mouse ones with depleted fields ) ...The most important thing are the major tournaments .......Nadal could probably win mickey mouse tournaments on clay at 40+ years of age at will !


Post 68, Laver's achievements are lesser than those of the other 3 overall ....Overall he's comfortably ahead of the other 3 though.

Connors record isn't anywhere close to being the greatest in the Open era. Federer, Borg and Sampras comfortably surpass him. Arguably Nadal, Lendl, Mac too ...

Connors won 18 Masters 1000 level tournaments plus was a finalist another 13 times at that level for 31 Masters 1000 level finals. He also won the WCT finals twice plus the season end masters. His tournament wins had depth as well as numbers.

Limpinhitter
03-12-2012, 05:44 PM
Connors won 18 Masters 1000 level tournaments plus was a finalist another 13 times at that level for 31 Masters 1000 level finals. He also won the WCT finals twice plus the season end masters. His tournament wins had depth as well as numbers.

Spank you very much!