PDA

View Full Version : Rafa: Fast serving not right for my game


Romismak
03-12-2012, 05:58 AM
Rafa said that he can serve harder, like USO 2010 when his serve was at his best, but he rather serve slower, because this is better for his game what do you think

http://tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=16816&zoneid=25

"I served very fast during all the U.S. Open because I felt that I had the perfect feeling on the serve,” he told reporters at the BNP Paribas Open at Indian Wells. "But the week before in Cincinnati my serve didn't work that well. Because at that moment I was serving fantastic. I had the feeling that to win the U.S. Open I had to serve faster. Worked well in that tournament, but in general, I don't need to serve that fast.

"The problem when I am serving fast, the percentage is going a little bit down. The problem is if I don't serve the perfect serve the ball come back faster, so I need to play a little bit slower game to have the control of the point. And serving that fast I can have more free points, but my mentality and my style of game doesn't go to this way. When I am serving that fast, I tried in another times, but I feel like I am losing a little bit the control of my whole game. That's why I am trying to serve as fast again with the right percentage, and trying to start the point the right way to have the control of the point with my forehand, or try to hit the first ball in a good position with my forehand. Today I can go on court and serve 132 miles with not many problems. The problem is probably is not the right tactic for my game."

Li Ching Yuen
03-12-2012, 06:04 AM
Had he not been a lefty he couldn't have said the same thing. But he's right, his serve is not much about pace, and given how slow courts are these days it would be a waste of energy to go all out on every serve.

He has always protected his serve wonderfully, even when his serve was a liability.

SLD76
03-12-2012, 06:07 AM
Had he not been a lefty he couldn't have said the same thing. But he's right, his serve is not much about pace, and given how slow courts are these days it would be a waste of energy to go all out on every serve.

He has always protected his serve wonderfully, even when his serve was a liability.

Honestly, I thought this thread was about him taking so long to serve the ball.

I was thinking "well, at least he is honest about taking so long to serve"

But, I digress. I always thought that he didnt try and use that USO serve more because it caused him shoulder problems.

rommil
03-12-2012, 06:09 AM
During the coin toss at the net on the next match, Rafa asking his opponent:

"I serve fast today, no? but return ball to me slow, por favor"

Li Ching Yuen
03-12-2012, 06:17 AM
It could mean shoulder problems in the long run, since he's most probably gonna have to play up to 5 matches every week or so for a period of the year but that's not the main factor.

He just doesn't go for it because there's not enough reward for it so to speak, and he knows that. Another contributing factor is the fact that he is arguably (Djokovic) the best player once the point gets in a rally, and that is a very reassuring position to be in.

There's no need to risk getting 1 or 2 free points on serve per game when you know you have an even better chance at winning points just playing it safe.

Jack Romeo
03-12-2012, 06:39 AM
the fact that he has shown the ability to serve big when he needs means that he should, depending on the tournament conditions. i think he should not be saying that serving fast doesn't suit his game. in general, that is the truth. but there are times when he will need to serve faster. i think at wimbledon, us open and at the wtf (where he's never won and keeps getting whipped by federer) he should incorporate more fast serving in his game.

phnx90
03-12-2012, 06:45 AM
the fact that he has shown the ability to serve big when he needs means that he should, depending on the tournament conditions. i think he should not be saying that serving fast doesn't suit his game. in general, that is the truth. but there are times when he will need to serve faster. i think at wimbledon, us open and at the wtf (where he's never won and keeps getting whipped by federer) he should incorporate more fast serving in his game.

His average serve speed at Wimbledon 2011 was higher than that at the USO 2010, I thought.

Romismak
03-12-2012, 06:54 AM
I think he is right that it doesnīt suits his game on clay, but i think indoors he should be going for more pace-harder 1st serves, also on grass from deuce side of court where he canīt use his lefty serve he can go for bigger serves 125-135mph

Sentinel
03-12-2012, 07:02 AM
^ ^ ^ Yet all the Nadal fans here cry that Freddie gets free points on his serve. They should read Nadal's interviews more closely.

magnut
03-12-2012, 07:08 AM
Nadal is just not a natural server where as Federer is. Its always going to be a problem for him. If he is hold serve then he is fine serving slow. If he loses some movement as he gets older he may need to take some risk.

What he really needs to be doing more often is flattening out that forehand and getting to the net when he has the opportunity.

DjokovicForTheWin
03-12-2012, 07:10 AM
He's basically saying, no, I'm not juicing.

phnx90
03-12-2012, 07:13 AM
Nadal is just not a natural server where as Federer is. Its always going to be a problem for him. If he is hold serve then he is fine serving slow. If he loses some movement as he gets older he may need to take some risk.

What he really needs to be doing more often is flattening out that forehand and getting to the net when he has the opportunity.

He doesn't actually need to flatten out the FH. He needs to play more confidently. When he's confident, he's painting lines and landing his groundies near the baseline, partly because he's also standing closer to the baseline. When he's not confident, he'll start hitting short, loopy balls.

Besides, that little bit of lead he's added to his racquet seems to have made his groundies a fair bit less spinny.

magnut
03-12-2012, 07:19 AM
He doesn't actually need to flatten out the FH. He needs to play more confidently. When he's confident, he's painting lines and landing his groundies near the baseline, partly because he's also standing closer to the baseline. When he's not confident, he'll start hitting short, loopy balls.

Besides, that little bit of lead he's added to his racquet seems to have made his groundies a fair bit less spinny.

Play more confidently? That goes without saying for every player on the tour.

As for the lead tape issue: Thats just placebo for Rafa. A couple of Grams is not going to change ones swing path. If it makes him feel more powerful though...then so be it. The sport is so psychological players try anything. Some are even useing mouthguards to align the upperand lower jaws for more accuracy LOL.

Honestly he does not need to change much. Just stay healthy and try some different tactics with Djokavic. Three finals last year, french open title, and Davis Cup is a very good year. In the 90s he would be a #1 player (competition was tougher back then though).

phnx90
03-12-2012, 07:28 AM
Play more confidently? That goes without saying for every player on the tour.
Just because it should go without saying doesn't mean that it does. Rafa plays very differently when he's confident (as opposed to when he's not). I'm not the only person who has noticed.

As for the lead tape issue: Thats just placebo for Rafa. A couple of Grams is not going to change ones swing path. If it makes him feel more powerful though...then so be it. The sport is so psychological players try anything. Some are even useing mouthguards to align the upperand lower jaws for more accuracy LOL.
Doesn't matter if it's placebo or not (how you know for certain that it's a placebo, I don't know). Fact remains that his FH is more penetrating than before, and it's not because of placebo on my end either--I keep forgetting that he's added more lead to his racquet.

Honestly he does not need to change much. Just stay healthy and try some different tactics with Djokavic. Three finals last year, french open title, and Davis Cup is a very good year. In the 90s he would be a #1 player (competition was tougher back then though).
You'll be eaten alive for saying that here.

BULLZ1LLA2.0
03-12-2012, 07:35 AM
Especially against Federer. No point serving fast vs Federer.

By the way this is my FINAL POST ever at Talk Tennis.

phnx90
03-12-2012, 07:37 AM
Especially against Federer. No point serving fast vs Federer.

By the way this is my FINAL POST ever at Talk Tennis.

I'm quoting you so that people who have put you on their ignore lists can send their condolences.

Edit:// nvm, I just noticed that nadalwon2012 is now unbanned

decades
03-12-2012, 07:47 AM
Especially against Federer. No point serving fast vs Federer.

By the way this is my FINAL POST ever at Talk Tennis.

will you be retiring All of your profiles?

DRII
03-12-2012, 08:08 AM
Nadal needs to focus more on his return than on his serve. His return has been the most dramatically reduced shot in his arsenal, although his second serve was horrible in Australia and seems to be the same in this tournament...

nadalwon2012
03-12-2012, 08:10 AM
Nadal needs to focus more on his return than on his serve. His return has been the most dramatically reduced shot in his arsenal, although his second serve was horrible in Australia and seems to be the same in this tournament...

I wouldn't worry. Looked no worse than Djokovic at the AO. Good enough (or good enough to get up a break in the 5th set).

ATXtennisaddict
03-12-2012, 08:28 AM
He's a percentage player. His lefty spin does help. More spin, less pace works.

mtommer
03-12-2012, 08:33 AM
To me the key point is that Rafa recognizes that he will have trouble if he misses those big serves slightly by having time taken away from him. Because of that, his game plan is seriously disrupted as he can no longer take control of the point as he wishes. That's big in tennis and it's something that many of us big hitters are only starting to now realize - well by many I mean me LOL. A simple block back to a corner can result in a winner for the opponent simply because I hit the ball to hard and didn't give myself time to recover proper court position.

phnx90
03-12-2012, 08:45 AM
Rafa haters, you are late.

"He likes to serve slow as in, likes to take time between his serves to psych his opponents, and win the match"

Sartorius
03-12-2012, 09:35 AM
will you be retiring All of your profiles?

Looks like he posted with nadalwon2012 shortly after. :D

Truly a phenomenon, this kid.


As for Rafa quote, it makes perfect sense. At least now he has a much better serve compared to before and can put it to good use when he needs to.

TMF
03-12-2012, 09:43 AM
I don't care if Rafa serve 80 or 140mph, just keep the pace between points within a respectable time. And most importantly, don't control the pace when you're receiving. It's the server that has the right to control the pace !

monfed
03-12-2012, 09:52 AM
From what I've seen, his kicker does more damage than the flat one, atleast on the ad court.

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-12-2012, 10:10 AM
I don't care if Rafa serve 80 or 140mph, just keep the pace between points within a respectable time. And most importantly, don't control the pace when you're receiving. It's the server that has the right to control the pace !

Exactly. You're suppose to play to the pace of the server within a reason.

Murrayfan31
03-12-2012, 10:54 AM
What a dumb thing to say. I guess Fed would be better off taking pace off his serve. :rolleyes:

rommil
03-12-2012, 10:54 AM
Especially against Federer. No point serving fast vs Federer.

By the way this is my FINAL POST ever at Talk Tennis.

Awww, did your shrink give you a different medication you are moving on to your next personality/account?

nadalwon2012
03-12-2012, 11:33 AM
I don't care if Rafa serve 80 or 140mph, just keep the pace between points within a respectable time. And most importantly, don't control the pace when you're receiving. It's the server that has the right to control the pace !

You seriously think Nadal is slow between return points? Show me some examples, because I think you just made that up. Nadal is one of the fastest on tour between return points.

TMF
03-12-2012, 02:10 PM
You seriously think Nadal is slow between return points? Show me some examples, because I think you just made that up.
How long have you been watching tennis? Ask Agassi, he'll tell you why he was annoyed by Nadal's robbing his time when serving. Also I've seen countless of time when a server was in motion to serve but had to pause because Nadal wasn't ready. Nadal even raises his hand to ask for time.

Nadal is one of the fastest on tour between return points.
Cool story bro.

LeeD
03-12-2012, 03:15 PM
I've always said a faster serve doesn't help a grinder's game. You cannot grind if you end the point early!
Rafa needs to grind his opponents.
A big serve does not tire anyoine out.

Clarky21
03-12-2012, 03:26 PM
I've always said a faster serve doesn't help a grinder's game. You cannot grind if you end the point early!
Rafa needs to grind his opponents.
A big serve does not tire anyoine out.


You have a point here,but the bigger,faster serve helped Nadal finally win the USO. It helped him tremendously thoughout that tournament and in Tokyo where he would have lost to Troicki in the semi without it. Not to mention how much it helped him at the WTF that year against Murray. He should definitely use it more often,imo. It will lessen the wear and tear on his body,and help him get out of jams a lot easier than spinning the ball in at 100 mph does.

FlashFlare11
03-12-2012, 05:16 PM
You have a point here,but the bigger,faster serve helped Nadal finally win the USO. It helped him tremendously thoughout that tournament and in Tokyo where he would have lost to Troicki in the semi without it. Not to mention how much it helped him at the WTF that year against Murray. He should definitely use it more often,imo. It will lessen the wear and tear on his body,and help him get out of jams a lot easier than spinning the ball in at 100 mph does.

Absolutely! The shorter the points are, the more it will help Nadal, especially in sustaining his health. I don't see anyway it can hurt him, unless the service motion is somehow damaging to his shoulder.

kragster
03-12-2012, 06:25 PM
Exactly , I don't think Rafa enjoys prolonging the point if he sees an opening. His modes operandi is to wait for the opportunity to hit a high percentage winner. With a big serve he could hit a high percentage winner of the return shot itself.

I think more than anything its probably because it hurts his shoulder to serve big and whatever he would gain short term he might lose long term.

His serve has never been a huge liability the only thing he really needs to fix is that awful loopy backhand shot that he hits many times these days.

MichaelNadal
03-12-2012, 06:32 PM
You have a point here,but the bigger,faster serve helped Nadal finally win the USO. It helped him tremendously thoughout that tournament and in Tokyo where he would have lost to Troicki in the semi without it. Not to mention how much it helped him at the WTF that year against Murray. He should definitely use it more often,imo. It will lessen the wear and tear on his body,and help him get out of jams a lot easier than spinning the ball in at 100 mph does.

Agreed, Rafa with a 135mph serve is a HUGE threat to the tour. He needs to realize how deadly his game could be with that. Not all the time, but he needs to bring it out in the right moments.

rufus_smith
03-12-2012, 07:00 PM
Rafa plays too safe on all his shots to win a Grand Slam these days in 2012. He will never beat Djoker playing that safe. I say this based on my many years of experience of watching the ATP tour on the tube in my jammies from the comfort of my sofa with a cool refreshment and some Cheez-its..

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-12-2012, 07:03 PM
Agreed, Rafa with a 135mph serve is a HUGE threat to the tour. He needs to realize how deadly his game could be with that. Not all the time, but he needs to bring it out in the right moments.

Yes and no. Remember when Roddick use to just hit as hard as he could without good control over placement? Nadal needs to find the right balance between speed and placement.

Xizel
03-12-2012, 07:14 PM
You can tell he'll slice it most serves. It doesn't matter though, because it'll still pull you off the court and the return isn't easy. Stay back, it slices further away. Taking it on the rise is always a risk for timing errors.

Manus Domini
03-12-2012, 07:20 PM
Honestly he does not need to change much. Just stay healthy and try some different tactics with Djokavic. Three finals last year, french open title, and Davis Cup is a very good year. In the 90s he would be a #1 player (competition was tougher back then though).

:lol: Rafa wouldn't have made three finals in the 90s :lol:

He would've won RG, that's it. No other finals for him.

Bobby Jr
03-12-2012, 07:36 PM
I don't care if Rafa serve 80 or 140mph, just keep the pace between points within a respectable time. And most importantly, don't control the pace when you're receiving. It's the server that has the right to control the pace !
God the semifinal the AO drove me wild seeing how he left Federer waiting to serve over and over while he towelled off. Federer should have just served the ball. Pretty soon the umpire would get the hint surely?

It's bad enough on-serve but on receiving it's plain disrespectful. I've already said elsewhere that they should make it so the server can serve as soon as they're ready (but maybe not within 15 seconds). Think how that could improve the game... people would be so conscious of it it would change the game, probably for the better, within weeks.

TheOneHander
03-12-2012, 07:51 PM
Delete post.

nadalwon2012
03-12-2012, 08:13 PM
Rafa plays too safe on all his shots to win a Grand Slam these days in 2012. He will never beat Djoker playing that safe. I say this based on my many years of experience of watching the ATP tour on the tube in my jammies from the comfort of my sofa with a cool refreshment and some Cheez-its..

And Djokovic won't beat Nadal again by playing the way Djokovic played in the AO final. Djokovic down 4-2 in the 5th set with Nadal serving? Nadal would only have to hold 2 more service games.

DeShaun
03-12-2012, 08:16 PM
Fast serving has worked to my advantage in spurts only in the big picture. Once or twice I was treeing on serve and everything that I hit had both great spin and velocity with maybe one double fault per set. Once a year this will happen.

Normally, though, trying to serve big spells trouble for me. If I am forcing "big serve" onto my game where it doesn't belong, then, on a slightly better than average day I will make 25% first serves, eliciting unreturnables 75% of time. Then I will make 50% of second serves, of which I will win half the ensuing points.

Because my second serve is essentially the same as my first only three-quarters speed, it does not have stellar placement--it aims only to overpower, to rattle your racket. So, I will tear off a few highlight reel points, hold a game or two with considerable aplomb; but never fully manage to create enough pressure on serve to avoid finally being broken.

That has happened to me more than once when I was forcing "big serve" onto my game where it didn't fit with my prevailing attitude or energy levels, and the results were disastrous.
However. . .
Since eschewing "big serve" almost altogether, more points have been started at my ideal playing speed, and against big strokers like the guys that I have the hardest time with who, in our tennis lives, probably have a couple hundred hours of playing time accrued over me, this strategy has been working well.

I still like to crack big serves against inferior competition, and can do so with greater impunity because, if things start unraveling, I can always slow things down if necessary; except, against the bigger hitters, I don't have that option because they can create their own pace which can hurry me into making mistakes off the ground. . .unless I slow it down.

Clarky21
03-12-2012, 08:25 PM
And Djokovic won't beat Nadal again by playing the way Djokovic played in the AO final. Djokovic down 4-2 in the 5th set with Nadal serving? Nadal would only have to hold 2 more service games.



Gigantic facepalm...again.

FlashFlare11
03-12-2012, 08:30 PM
Gigantic facepalm...again.

I'm curious to find out why he thinks Nadal lost the AO final. Apparently, according to him, Nadal doesn't need to change anything. And Djokovic can play at the same level as the AO final as well. So basically, the players can be at the same level and make no improvements, yet the result will be different?

Sentinel
03-12-2012, 08:42 PM
God the semifinal the AO drove me wild seeing how he left Federer waiting to serve over and over while he towelled off. Federer should have just served the ball. Pretty soon the umpire would get the hint surely?

It's bad enough on-serve but on receiving it's plain disrespectful. I've already said elsewhere that they should make it so the server can serve as soon as they're ready (but maybe not within 15 seconds). Think how that could improve the game... people would be so conscious of it it would change the game, probably for the better, within weeks.
Rafa was trying to screw up Federer's average time taken statistic. Also hoping that Fred would get a time violation indirectly.

Sentinel
03-12-2012, 08:45 PM
Especially against Federer. No point serving fast vs Federer.

By the way this is my FINAL POST ever at Talk Tennis.
You should start a farewell thread.

Really, so all those who loved your poasts are aware.

Moment of silence, everyone.

FlashFlare11
03-12-2012, 08:47 PM
You should start a farewell thread.

Really, so all those who loved your poasts are aware.

Moment of silence, everyone.

Nadalwon2012 is still posting. I guess he's just putting this account on hiatus.

DeShaun
03-12-2012, 08:47 PM
You should start a farewell thread.

Really, so all those who loved your poasts are aware.

Moment of silence, everyone.

10chars in a soap bubble on a summer day floating slowly away

Nathaniel_Near
03-12-2012, 10:17 PM
I swear ********* aka whoever else has about 4 or 5 different accounts running concurrently as things stand right now.

fednad
03-12-2012, 10:20 PM
Especially against Federer. No point serving fast vs Federer.

By the way this is my FINAL POST ever at Talk Tennis.

Thank You.
RIP!

Clarky21
03-12-2012, 10:28 PM
Thank You.
RIP!


Not so fast. He is still here but is posting using another one of his many aliases called Nadalwon. He hasn't really left,unfortunately.

Nathaniel_Near
03-12-2012, 10:30 PM
Not so fast. He is still here but is posting using another one of his many aliases called Nadalwon. He hasn't really left,unfortunately.

Pretty sure there are a few others too...

Cup8489
03-13-2012, 02:15 AM
I'm curious to find out why he thinks Nadal lost the AO final. Apparently, according to him, Nadal doesn't need to change anything. And Djokovic can play at the same level as the AO final as well. So basically, the players can be at the same level and make no improvements, yet the result will be different?

Why congratulations sir, you've just now given irrefutable proof that nadalwon2012 is indeed crazy/insane (just gave the actual definition of it; ie doing something exactly the same but expecting different result)

I applaud this!

Cup8489
03-13-2012, 02:16 AM
I'm curious to find out why he thinks Nadal lost the AO final. Apparently, according to him, Nadal doesn't need to change anything. And Djokovic can play at the same level as the AO final as well. So basically, the players can be at the same level and make no improvements, yet the result will be different?

Why congratulations sir, you've just now given irrefutable proof that nadalwon2012 is indeed crazy/insane (just gave the actual definition of it; ie doing something exactly the same but expecting different result)

I applaud this!

sbengte
03-13-2012, 02:34 AM
By the way this is my FINAL POST ever at Talk Tennis.

Noooooooooo !! Why ? :(

I hope my other favorite poasters like nadalwon2012 and rafa2005rg don't ever take inspiration from this and stop poasting.

Tennisguy3000
03-13-2012, 02:45 AM
Honestly, I thought this thread was about him taking so long to serve the ball.

I was thinking "well, at least he is honest about taking so long to serve"

But, I digress. I always thought that he didnt try and use that USO serve more because it caused him shoulder problems.

Haha same here SLD... Saw him play live in Japan last year.. serve looked good to me ;-)

I get where he is coming from... if you aren't hammering it for winners or nailing the corners/lines you get your speed back with an extra POP.

Bobby Jr
03-13-2012, 02:50 AM
Rafa was trying to screw up Federer's average time taken statistic. Also hoping that Fred would get a time violation indirectly.
:lol: :lol:... Just imagine if that actually happened.

FlashFlare11
03-13-2012, 04:01 AM
Why congratulations sir, you've just now given irrefutable proof that nadalwon2012 is indeed crazy/insane (just gave the actual definition of it; ie doing something exactly the same but expecting different result)

I applaud this!

Why, thank you very much, sir!:)

Rozroz
03-13-2012, 04:11 AM
Noooooooooo !! Why ? :(

I hope my other favorite poasters like nadalwon2012 and rafa2005rg don't ever take inspiration from this and stop poasting.

he's evolving back to nadalwon2012 until banned again, and so on...

http://static.oprah.com/images/omag/201001-omag-butterfly-290x218.jpg

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-13-2012, 08:49 AM
And Djokovic won't beat Nadal again by playing the way Djokovic played in the AO final. Djokovic down 4-2 in the 5th set with Nadal serving? Nadal would only have to hold 2 more service games.

Shouldawouldacoulda Nadallost2012. Maybe that put the nail in deeper and now Rafa won't ever beat him.

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-13-2012, 08:51 AM
You should start a farewell thread.

Really, so all those who loved your poasts are aware.

Moment of silence, everyone.

His speech will go like this.

Today, I consider myself, the trolliest troll, on the face of the earth.

SLD76
03-13-2012, 08:53 AM
Shouldawouldacoulda Nadallost2012. Maybe that put the nail in deeper and now Rafa won't ever beat him.

it amuses me a bit when the ***** take solace from AO.

they fail to realize that the flip side is... on a surface which favors rafa as much as if not more than djoker....where Djoker was tired from murray and ferrer and not in best form....he steamrolled nadal in the second and third sets....was on fumes by the 4th and was half dead in the fifth and down a break...and still won.


what, does djoker need a broken ankle for rafa to beat him?

Crisstti
03-13-2012, 11:50 AM
He has said this before. Guess he's right that if he doesn't feel he's playing well enough to handle the game faster, or getting enough winners with his serve, he's better off not serving so fast...

How long have you been watching tennis? Ask Agassi, he'll tell you why he was annoyed by Nadal's robbing his time when serving. Also I've seen countless of time when a server was in motion to serve but had to pause because Nadal wasn't ready. Nadal even raises his hand to ask for time.


I would like some video proof as well. Some posters keep saying that here, while supporting it with nothing. What I see is Rafa towelling off while the server chooses the balls.

BTW, a player is allowed to raise his hand asking for time... the server has to wait until the another player is ready. Rafa only does it sometimes though.

Absolutely! The shorter the points are, the more it will help Nadal, especially in sustaining his health. I don't see anyway it can hurt him, unless the service motion is somehow damaging to his shoulder.

He says it hurts him because the return comes back faster and that makes it difficult for him to control the point.

nadalwon2012
03-13-2012, 11:51 AM
it amuses me a bit when the ***** take solace from AO.

they fail to realize that the flip side is... on a surface which favors rafa as much as if not more than djoker....where Djoker was tired from murray and ferrer and not in best form....he steamrolled nadal in the second and third sets....was on fumes by the 4th and was half dead in the fifth and down a break...and still won.


what, does djoker need a broken ankle for rafa to beat him?

That's a laugh :lol: and a half :lol:

No hard court will ever favor Nadal compared to clay and grass. While Djokovic, is as pure as they come on hard courts. Djokovic has been a hard court specialist all the way, and has 3 AO titles to back it up. You don't know about Nadal and Djokovic, clearly :lol:

Djokovic has no room left to breathe now. Nadal has closed the gap completely.

Gorecki
03-13-2012, 11:59 AM
That's a laugh :lol: and a half :lol:

No hard court will ever favor Nadal compared to clay and grass. While Djokovic, is as pure as they come on hard courts. Djokovic has been a hard court specialist all the way, and has 3 AO titles to back it up. You don't know about Nadal and Djokovic, clearly :lol:

Djokovic has no room left to breathe now. Nadal has closed the gap completely.

that is why he got ramed like a lady by running on fumes Novak

Limpinhitter
03-13-2012, 12:09 PM
Rafa said that he can serve harder, like USO 2010 when his serve was at his best, but he rather serve slower, because this is better for his game what do you think

http://tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=16816&zoneid=25

Yeah, really! Why does Nadal need 8-10 free points per set when he can grind them out (along with all his other points), with 10 shot + rallies.

kragster
03-13-2012, 12:19 PM
Although AO is certainly one of the better HC tournaments for Rafa, I think that losing to Novak on HC was and will be the norm for Rafa, just because Novak is just a better HC player. Even before Novak 2.0, the hardcourt H2H was 7-4 or something.

I think the real gauge of how Rafa handles this rivalry is what he does on clay and grass. Rafa's movement and the effectiveness of his serves and slices on these surfaces make them a much more favorable ground for him. On HC, Rafa has always been outmatched by Nole.

dafinch
03-13-2012, 12:25 PM
He's basically saying, no, I'm not juicing.

Precisely! The only time he "deigned" to serve fast with that useful little "wrist adjustment," he won his one and only US Open. Obviously not worth the effort, lol!

nadalwon2012
03-13-2012, 12:30 PM
Although AO is certainly one of the better HC tournaments for Rafa, I think that losing to Novak on HC was and will be the norm for Rafa, just because Novak is just a better HC player. Even before Novak 2.0, the hardcourt H2H was 7-4 or something.

I think the real gauge of how Rafa handles this rivalry is what he does on clay and grass. Rafa's movement and the effectiveness of his serves and slices on these surfaces make them a much more favorable ground for him. On HC, Rafa has always been outmatched by Nole.

Completely agree. And that is why I consider the 2012 AO a huge accomplishment for Nadal, and an excellent sign regarding Roland Garros/Wimbledon.

SLD76
03-13-2012, 12:31 PM
Although AO is certainly one of the better HC tournaments for Rafa, I think that losing to Novak on HC was and will be the norm for Rafa, just because Novak is just a better HC player. Even before Novak 2.0, the hardcourt H2H was 7-4 or something.

I think the real gauge of how Rafa handles this rivalry is what he does on clay and grass. Rafa's movement and the effectiveness of his serves and slices on these surfaces make them a much more favorable ground for him. On HC, Rafa has always been outmatched by Nole.

The reason I say the AO courts favored Rafa is because the two tournaments where he was closest to beating Djoker last year were IW and Miami which are slower higher bouncing courts similar to the AO.

He didnt win a set against Djoker on clay who also beat him fairly thoroughly at WB.

Clarky21
03-13-2012, 12:44 PM
The reason I say the AO courts favored Rafa is because the two tournaments where he was closest to beating Djoker last year were IW and Miami which are slower higher bouncing courts similar to the AO.

He didnt win a set against Djoker on clay who also beat him fairly thoroughly at WB.



Sorry,but no hardcourt will ever favor Nadal over Djesus. That's just ridiculous.

SLD76
03-13-2012, 12:55 PM
Sorry,but no hardcourt will ever favor Nadal over Djesus. That's just ridiculous.

*sigh*

Say it with me now, Im not saying he is a better HC player, just that going by last year's results, the AO seemed to me the court where Rafa would have the best chance to beat Djoker, based on how close the matches were at IW and Miami and the AO surface is similar to it.

Hence AO favored his chance of beating Djoker

Get it now?

kragster
03-13-2012, 01:12 PM
The reason I say the AO courts favored Rafa is because the two tournaments where he was closest to beating Djoker last year were IW and Miami which are slower higher bouncing courts similar to the AO.

He didnt win a set against Djoker on clay who also beat him fairly thoroughly at WB.

I see where you are coming from but I think last year there was also this factor of Djoker's growth in self belief as the year progressed which somewhat counterbalanced the effect of switching to clay/grass, surfaces which SHOULD have favored Rafa even more than IW/Miami.

I may be proven wrong but I highly doubt that going forward Djoker will do better against Rafa on clay/grass than he does on HC. He may still win everything but my prediction is that Rafa will give him much tougher fights on clay than at IW/Miami (if they meet).

SLD76
03-13-2012, 01:14 PM
I see where you are coming from but I think last year there was also this factor of Djoker's growth in self belief as the year progressed which somewhat counterbalanced the effect of switching to clay/grass, surfaces which SHOULD have favored Rafa even more than IW/Miami.

I may be proven wrong but I highly doubt that going forward Djoker will do better against Rafa on clay/grass than he does on HC. He may still win everything but my prediction is that Rafa will give him much tougher fights on clay than at IW/Miami (if they meet).


we'll soon see.

Murrayfan31
03-13-2012, 01:16 PM
I would go as far as saying that no court favors Nadal over Djokovic. Djokovic is a better version of Nadal. Face it.

Clarky21
03-13-2012, 01:19 PM
*sigh*

Say it with me now, Im not saying he is a better HC player, just that going by last year's results, the AO seemed to me the court where Rafa would have the best chance to beat Djoker, based on how close the matches were at IW and Miami and the AO surface is similar to it.

Hence AO favored his chance of beating Djoker

Get it now?


Still makes no sense,and it won't no matter how hard you try to make it sound like it does. To say that someone who has won the AO 3 times,and is playing on his best and favorite surface,has less of a chance to beat someone who has only made the final there twice,and winning once while playing on his worst surface,is simply ridiculous. Nadal was not favored to win that match,especially because Djesus has always beaten Nadal soundly on hardcourt,and has owned him over the past year. You are just trying to make that loss seem worse than it was by actng as if Nadal should have beaten Djesus on a hardcourt when their entire h2h over the years says the total opposite. Most Nadal fans realize that Nadal will probably never beat Djesus again,or win anymore slams. You don't have to try so hard to make us feel like sh*t.

Based on your logic we should all say that Fed is the favorite over Nadal on clay next time they play because he took sets off of him last year in Madrid and at RG,while not taking a set off Nadal in Miami. Do you see how silly that sounds?

SLD76
03-13-2012, 01:28 PM
Still makes no sense,and it won't no matter how hard you try to make it sound like it does. To say that someone who has won the AO 3 times,and is playing on his best and favorite surface,has less of a chance to beat someone who has only made the final there twice,and winning once while playing on his worst surface,is simply ridiculous. Nadal was not favored to win that match,especially because Djesus has always beaten Nadal soundly on hardcourt,and has owned him over the past year. You are just trying to make that loss seem worse than it was by actng as if Nadal should have beaten Djesus on a hardcourt when their entire h2h over the years says the total opposite. Most Nadal fans realize that Nadal will probably never beat Djesus again,or win anymore slams. You don't have to try so hard to make us feel like sh*t.

Based on your logic we should all say that Fed is the favorite over Nadal on clay next time they play because he took sets off of him last year in Madrid and at RG,while not taking a set off Nadal in Miami. Do you see how silly that sounds?


Can you read? I didnt say Nadal was favored to win the match, I said his best chance of beating Djoker would be at AO as the court favors his game. Not an unreasonable hypothesis based on last year's results. Is it a small sample size? Yes, but valid nonetheless, imo. Based on the fact that 1) even djoker 1.0 gave Nadal tough matches on clay 2) djoker 2.0 didnt drop a set on clay to Rafa it aint looking good for clay season. Of course, anything can happen.

Damn.

Second you need some Xanax and perspective...just walk away, read a book, smell the flowers and chill. Jeesus.

Clarky21
03-13-2012, 01:45 PM
Can you read? I didnt say Nadal was favored to win the match, I said his best chance of beating Djoker would be at AO as the court favors his game. Not an unreasonable hypothesis based on last year's results. Is it a small sample size? Yes, but valid nonetheless, imo. Based on the fact that 1) even djoker 1.0 gave Nadal tough matches on clay 2) djoker 2.0 didnt drop a set on clay to Rafa it aint looking good for clay season. Of course, anything can happen.

Damn.

Second you need some Xanax and perspective...just walk away, read a book, smell the flowers and chill. Jeesus.



Again,based on your logic,we should all say that Fed is the favorite over Nadal on clay next time they play because he took sets off of him last year in Madrid and at RG,while not taking a set off Nadal in Miami. Do you see how silly that sounds?

Seriously,Nadal is never favored to win against Djesus on any hc anywhere. Shoot,at this point he is not favored to win against him on any surface. And I still think you are just trying to make that loss look worse than it actually was considering it was an expected loss as noone thought Nadal would win it. Keep trying to pour salt in the wound though,by all means.

SLD76
03-13-2012, 01:56 PM
Again,based on your logic,we should all say that Fed is the favorite over Nadal on clay next time they play because he took sets off of him last year in Madrid and at RG,while not taking a set off Nadal in Miami. Do you see how silly that sounds?

Seriously,Nadal is never favored to win against Djesus on any hc anywhere. Shoot,at this point he is not favored to win against him on any surface. And I still think you are just trying to make that loss look worse than it actually was considering it was an expected loss as noone thought Nadal would win it. Keep trying to pour salt in the wound though,by all means.


First off, I dont care enough about Nadal fans to try and pour salt in wounds.

I discuss tennis. You need to leave your feelings at home and dont bring them to a message board if you cant handle a discussion.

Second you still cant read because I keep saying I NEVER SAID RAFA WAS THE FAVORITE AT THE DAMN AO. I just said his best chance to beat Djoker would be on a court similar to the AO, IW and Miami surface based on last year's results.

Do you understand the difference between better chance and favored?

I get it, Nadal has no chance will never beat Djoker blah blah boo hoo boo hoo....but damn all I am saying basically, I think slow HC are his best chance to beat Djoker.

Of course, he could prove me wrong and beat him in clay this year I dont know, all I can go by is the small sample size provided from last year.


Actually, I *do* think Roger has a better chance at beating Rafa on clay than on these outdoor HCs. RG played very fast last year and combined with the fact balls...he has a better shot, imo.

Thanks for proving my point for me. Im not saying Fed is the favorite..he will never be the favorite against Rafa on clay...but does he have a better chance? Yes.

Clarky21
03-13-2012, 02:06 PM
First off, I dont care enough about Nadal fans to try and pour salt in wounds.

I discuss tennis. You need to leave your feelings at home and dont bring them to a message board if you cant handle a discussion.

Second you still cant read because I keep saying I NEVER SAID RAFA WAS THE FAVORITE AT THE DAMN AO. I just said his best chance to beat Djoker would be on a court similar to the AO, IW and Miami surface based on last year's results.

Do you understand the difference between better chance and favored?

I get it, Nadal has no chance will never beat Djoker blah blah boo hoo boo hoo....but damn all I am saying basically, I think slow HC are his best chance to beat Djoker.

Of course, he could prove me wrong and beat him in clay this year I dont know, all I can go by is the small sample size provided from last year.


Actually, I *do* think Roger has a better chance at beating Rafa on clay than on these outdoor HCs. RG played very fast last year and combined with the fact balls...he has a better shot, imo.

Thanks for proving my point for me. Im not saying Fed is the favorite..he will never be the favorite against Rafa on clay...but does he have a better chance? Yes.



Maybe you're the one who needs the Xanax. You are so angry that I don't agree with you that you have resorted to cursing at me and practically throwing a fit. Chill out,lady. :lol:

And since you keep harping on your "best chance" garbage,I will say that it is still garbage no matter how many times you say it. At this point Nadal has no "best chance" to beat Djesus,and that is magnified even further on hc.

DjokovicForTheWin
03-13-2012, 02:42 PM
First off, I dont care enough about Nadal fans to try and pour salt in wounds.

I discuss tennis. You need to leave your feelings at home and dont bring them to a message board if you cant handle a discussion.

Second you still cant read because I keep saying I NEVER SAID RAFA WAS THE FAVORITE AT THE DAMN AO. I just said his best chance to beat Djoker would be on a court similar to the AO, IW and Miami surface based on last year's results.

Do you understand the difference between better chance and favored?

I get it, Nadal has no chance will never beat Djoker blah blah boo hoo boo hoo....but damn all I am saying basically, I think slow HC are his best chance to beat Djoker.

Of course, he could prove me wrong and beat him in clay this year I dont know, all I can go by is the small sample size provided from last year.


Actually, I *do* think Roger has a better chance at beating Rafa on clay than on these outdoor HCs. RG played very fast last year and combined with the fact balls...he has a better shot, imo.

Thanks for proving my point for me. Im not saying Fed is the favorite..he will never be the favorite against Rafa on clay...but does he have a better chance? Yes.

Wow, do not waste so much energy for Dorky21. She is the biggest troll on this forum and absolutely clueless about tennis.

SLD76
03-13-2012, 02:59 PM
Maybe you're the one who needs the Xanax. You are so angry that I don't agree with you that you have resorted to cursing at me and practically throwing a fit. Chill out,lady. :lol:

And since you keep harping on your "best chance" garbage,I will say that it is still garbage no matter how many times you say it. At this point Nadal has no "best chance" to beat Djesus,and that is magnified even further on hc.

Im frustrated by your lack of reading skills actually. You kept arguing with me about something I never said. Its frustrating trying to communicate with someone who cant meet you halfway.

Crisstti
03-13-2012, 03:50 PM
http://www.realclearsports.com/articles/2012/03/13/nadal_serves_up_bewildering_explanation_97624.html