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View Full Version : Marcelo Rios as described by Luke Jensen


Gonzalito17
03-13-2012, 08:48 AM
From the book, Marcelo Rios: The Man We Barely Knew. Thought this was really interestingly said by LJ, Rios certainly did play an original style of tennis...

Luke Jensen: "...it wasn't about #1. It wasn't about beating everybody. It was kind of about playing the game. I truly believe, if you believe in people from another planet and stuff like that, one day we'll unmask Rios as a person from another planet. His game was that way. He acted that way. He just wasn't about our kind. He had his own kind. His own way. And just let him do his thing. A love for everything that he brought to the game. Don't try to resist it or box it up and everything like that. Just keep his game. And everything that he brought was truly from a universe far away. Because we haven't seen anything like it. You can see specks of it. But it's just like the thing with Roger Federer - nobody plays that way. Every once in a while it jumps up. The game evolves. And if you're not here to see it, not at the Grand Slams and personally in the front row watching it, from the media, from the fans, or the other players, you can't see it on TV. And that's what he did. He just made that massive jump. He played a game that we really haven't seen yet. We've seen glimpses of it. But he was just that - I keep on saying genius. But that's truly what he was. Just a misunderstood genius that was more of a movement/revolution. He wasn't a jerk. You may not have liked the way he treated you. But there's one spot out there - one person is gonna win, one person is gonna lose. That's a tough business to be in. And it's a very difficult locker room. Not everybody is gonna play nice."

robow7
03-13-2012, 05:37 PM
Nah, he was pretty much a jerk. Tons of talent but a jerk none the less.

Dedans Penthouse
03-13-2012, 08:00 PM
.

AGAIN? . . . . . . . :rolleyes:


From the book, Marcelo Rios: The Man We Barely Knew.
Shouldn't you say "from the SAME book I already started a thread about 2 months ago?" :

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=410244


.

Gonzalito17
03-13-2012, 08:38 PM
Was dat me? ;) Can't remember for sure, you might be right. THis time of year during IW and Miami I always think back of Rios in 98 when he won both events back to back that was some of the finest tennis I've ever seen played.

Gonzalito17
03-13-2012, 08:40 PM
Nah, he was pretty much a jerk. Tons of talent but a jerk none the less.

You could say the same about Mike Tyson, John McEnroe or Serena Williams. Aint gonna hold it against Rios, his talent more than made up for any personal shortcomings. Jensen articulated Rios very well.

eric draven
03-14-2012, 08:10 AM
Had the pleasure of meeting Luke Jensen on two different occasions and the thing that I really liked about him was his honesty and humor. You never got the feeling that he was trying to be nice for appearances sake and the way he said things gave me the impression he was pretty honest. With that said I think his comments on Rios are pretty entertaining. Rios may have acted like he was from another planet but he grew up in Chile where I'm pretty sure they don't raise their kids to be jerks. Still interesting comments out of Luke.

blackfrido
03-14-2012, 08:22 AM
Nah, he was pretty much a jerk. Tons of talent but a jerk none the less.

you called it right! A jerk, that what he was.....

gavna
03-14-2012, 08:36 AM
you called it right! A jerk, that what he was.....

ARRRRAAGH! guy was worse than a Jerk, treated fans, ball kids, players the press..... everyone like crap. Got to no.1 (for like a week?) without even sniffing at a major - tales credit as the "first no 1 from South America" baaahh we all know it was Vilas who was the first in 77 (dont care about the goofy flawed system we had then) most all agree Vilas was the true No 1 of 77.
hate this oh he was such a genius we must forgive or understand he was different! no he was just a huge Jerk.

blackfrido
03-14-2012, 08:45 AM
ARRRRAAGH! guy was worse than a Jerk, treated fans, ball kids, players the press..... everyone like crap. Got to no.1 (for like a week?) without even sniffing at a major - tales credit as the "first no 1 from South America" baaahh we all know it was Vilas who was the first in 77 (dont care about the goofy flawed system we had then) most all agree Vilas was the true No 1 of 77.
hate this oh he was such a genius we must forgive or understand he was different! no he was just a huge Jerk.

Once He was asked about Vilas, guess what he said? who's that guy Vilas? common Rios, a guy like Vilas deserves some respect!

Devilito
03-14-2012, 09:09 AM
watched him play live. His talent was crazy, he could do anything. He had a good lefty serve, good volleys, and could do anything off the ground. He could hit heavy, spiny or flatten out bombs. He really was the Mike Tyson of tennis. And just like Tyson, the only thing missing was a brain.

Azzurri
03-14-2012, 09:28 AM
someone should tell Jensen Rios never won a major. I agree he was a "different" player but so are a lot of other guys (ones that won majors). The guy was a total jerk.

Kobble
03-14-2012, 10:41 AM
I think Rios was a jerk, but he had his place in tennis.

jean pierre
03-14-2012, 10:59 AM
watched him play live. His talent was crazy, he could do anything. He had a good lefty serve, good volleys, and could do anything off the ground. He could hit heavy, spiny or flatten out bombs. He really was the Mike Tyson of tennis. And just like Tyson, the only thing missing was a brain.

Tyson was a great champion. Rios is almost nothing in tennis history : only one Grand Slam final, badly lost against Korda.

Mustard
03-14-2012, 11:16 AM
Wow. So much hate for Rios. He was a great player to watch, and his personality was more unpredictable and fiery, than just a "jerk" per se. Rios liked playing tennis but clearly hated all the other stuff that went with being a touring tennis professional.

jrepac
03-14-2012, 01:19 PM
I think Rios was a jerk, but he had his place in tennis.

A lot of people described Connors as a "jerk" too...but he accomplished a lot more than a guy like Rios....talent and jerkiness also require effort to succeed

Kobble
03-14-2012, 01:51 PM
A lot of people described Connors as a "jerk" too...but he accomplished a lot more than a guy like Rios....talent and jerkiness also require effort to succeed
They make the game interesting for the moment. They shake things up a bit. I liked that Rios was anti-establishment. I wish I was able to see him play at the height of his run. 1990's tennis was contrast incorporated, and Rios fit perfectly into the scene.

kiki
03-14-2012, 04:36 PM
Mecir was just every bit as talented, and certainly funnier to watch.I´ll never understand that much worshipping Rios.

FD3S
03-14-2012, 04:55 PM
Oh, Rios. To this day he (and Koellerer) are the only players I've never heard ONE good thing about personality-wise.

Gonzalito17
03-14-2012, 05:04 PM
Well there are a few FD in the book. But for the most part Rios was his own man, who just would not conform. There are many examples of his rude behavior but also some which contradict that, especially later in his career as he matured. The guy kept it real, you gotta give me credit for that. )

Gonzalito17
03-14-2012, 05:06 PM
Tyson was a great champion. Rios is almost nothing in tennis history : only one Grand Slam final, badly lost against Korda.

Well Rios is widely considered the best to have never won a slam -- not bad company as a lot of fine players never won a major. Rios was important part of history, and the first great player from Chile and the first S. American to be #1 ranked.

Mustard
03-14-2012, 05:07 PM
Oh, Rios. To this day he (and Koellerer) are the only players I've never heard ONE good thing about personality-wise.

I've heard some good things. The point is, Rios was very entertaining to watch, and Koellerer for that matter. Speaking of Koellerer, has there been any more information on what matches he supposedly fixed? Koellerer's life ban from tennis was announced like a show trial in Stalin's Russia.

FD3S
03-14-2012, 05:38 PM
I've heard some good things. The point is, Rios was very entertaining to watch, and Koellerer for that matter. Speaking of Koellerer, has there been any more information on what matches he supposedly fixed? Koellerer's life ban from tennis was announced like a show trial in Stalin's Russia.

Really? I'd love to hear some, and I'm not being sarcastic. All the things I've heard about Rios fit more a jackass caricature then an actual human being, but... they're all I have to go on, to be perfectly honest.

No idea with Koellerer, actually. After they announced his ban nothing else came of it.

Azzurri
03-15-2012, 04:21 AM
Tyson was a great champion. Rios is almost nothing in tennis history : only one Grand Slam final, badly lost against Korda.

agreed. not a good comaprison Considering a prime Tyson may have been the greatest fighter next to Ali/Marciano. Rios had tons of talent and was fun to watch. But as we all know(or at least should) talent is not anywhere near enough to be a champion.

Azzurri
03-15-2012, 04:23 AM
Mecir was just every bit as talented, and certainly funnier to watch.I´ll never understand that much worshipping Rios.

oooohhh, Mecir. nice pick up. I agree, he was a totally different player in his era much like Rios. But alas he shined bright but only for a little while.

kiki
03-15-2012, 06:57 AM
agreed. not a good comaprison Considering a prime Tyson may have been the greatest fighter next to Ali/Marciano. Rios had tons of talent and was fun to watch. But as we all know(or at least should) talent is not anywhere near enough to be a champion.


To be honest about Rios.I understand he can surprise people that started watchin tennis in 1990´s and 2000´s...but, in the 60´s and 70´s, Rios would be a minor piece.Not even whispered in the same sentence as Pietrangeli,Nastase,Santana,Orantes,Panatta,Mecir and John Mc Enroe.

robow7
03-15-2012, 08:42 AM
Rios would be a minor piece.Not even whispered in the same sentence as Pietrangeli,Nastase,Santana,Orantes,Panatta,Mecir and John Mc Enroe.

Why do you say this? Talent is talent, no matter what the era. He may have flourished in those times. The kid had tools, he just didn't get the most out of them.

kiki
03-15-2012, 10:01 AM
Why do you say this? Talent is talent, no matter what the era. He may have flourished in those times. The kid had tools, he just didn't get the most out of them.


I don´t want to sound arrogant.But in an era of mechanichal play, someone that escapes from it like Rios is a Divinity¡¡¡ I have had the luck to closely watch guys after guys that played much more creative tennis and are not so much worshipped ( or at all) by the ***** of today¡¡¡

Azzurri
03-15-2012, 10:19 AM
To be honest about Rios.I understand he can surprise people that started watchin tennis in 1990´s and 2000´s...but, in the 60´s and 70´s, Rios would be a minor piece.Not even whispered in the same sentence as Pietrangeli,Nastase,Santana,Orantes,Panatta,Mecir and John Mc Enroe.

he was a throwback. who knows how good he could have been with wood, but his control was excellent..so you never know.

DeShaun
03-15-2012, 10:41 AM
LJ has been smoking something sweet! I can see what Luke is saying, but Rios was a strong-headed jerk to a lot of people and I don't care for indivisuals who have messainic pretensions or think they are so far above everyone in all categories that just because they excel in one or a couple of categories that they somehow are allowed to be disrespectful in so many other arenas of human interactions and this is what Rios kind of came off as doing, being a jerk where it probably wasn't necessary or warranted.
Just my 2cent

Gonzalito17
03-17-2012, 11:37 AM
I've heard some good things. The point is, Rios was very entertaining to watch, and Koellerer for that matter. Speaking of Koellerer, has there been any more information on what matches he supposedly fixed? Koellerer's life ban from tennis was announced like a show trial in Stalin's Russia.

How boring would sports be if every athlete was like Stefan Edberg or Derek Jeter? You have to have those rebels like McEnroe, Connors, Rodman, Ray Lewis, Rios to spice things up. Rios served perfectly in this regard. )

Gonzalito17
03-17-2012, 11:38 AM
I don´t want to sound arrogant.But in an era of mechanichal play, someone that escapes from it like Rios is a Divinity¡¡¡ I have had the luck to closely watch guys after guys that played much more creative tennis and are not so much worshipped ( or at all) by the ***** of today¡¡¡

Well said Kiki

Gonzalito17
03-29-2012, 11:34 AM
The ESPN2 team talked about the Rios book on ESPN2 last ngiht during the Nadal-Tsonga match, they were talking about jumping two handed backhands and Patrick McEnroe mentioned that he was reading the book.

kiki
03-29-2012, 03:14 PM
agreed. not a good comaprison Considering a prime Tyson may have been the greatest fighter next to Ali/Marciano. Rios had tons of talent and was fun to watch. But as we all know(or at least should) talent is not anywhere near enough to be a champion.

Not at all.Leonard,Duran,Robinson much much better than Tyson.Foreman,Frazier,Holmes,Norton,Dempsey...and Holyfield¡¡¡

kiki
03-29-2012, 03:17 PM
Well said Kiki

I c an take off my hat like 20 players more exciting to watch than Rios.It never ceased to amaze me how much talk for so little meat.

Gonzalito17
04-01-2012, 03:29 PM
Not at all.Leonard,Duran,Robinson much much better than Tyson.Foreman,Frazier,Holmes,Norton,Dempsey...and Holyfield¡¡¡

Well, Rios was a champion, five times in Masters Series, and various other ATP events. He won IW and Miami back to back, if you would have seen Rios play those events in 98 you would have much more respect for him. Unfortunatley like Tyson, Rios had a short reign at the top. But like Tyson a very colorful and memorable reign by Rios.

Gonzalito17
04-01-2012, 03:31 PM
I c an take off my hat like 20 players more exciting to watch than Rios.It never ceased to amaze me how much talk for so little meat.

Kiki I guess you just had to be around watching tennis back then to appreciate Rios, I love Pete, Roger, Djok Agassi, Nadal but Rios had something they did not, he was more exciting to watch, when he was at his best, at least for my tennis tastes.

kiki
04-01-2012, 03:32 PM
Well, Rios was a champion, five times in Masters Series, and various other ATP events. He won IW and Miami back to back, if you would have seen Rios play those events in 98 you would have much more respect for him. Unfortunatley like Tyson, Rios had a short reign at the top. But like Tyson a very colorful and memorable reign by Rios.

I saw him win Montecarlo in 1997 and losing the finals of Rome that year ( I think he beat Corretja in the first event and lost to Moya or Mantilla in the second), he was playing real great clay court tennis.He is like Mecir, but not as complete.

Mustard
04-01-2012, 03:56 PM
I saw him win Montecarlo in 1997 and losing the finals of Rome that year ( I think he beat Corretja in the first event and lost to Moya or Mantilla in the second), he was playing real great clay court tennis.He is like Mecir, but not as complete.

Rios beat Corretja in the 1997 Monte Carlo final. Corretja beat Rios in the 1997 Rome final.

FlamEnemY
04-02-2012, 04:46 AM
I hate how the author uses short sentences.

One after another. Again, and again. But this is how it is. It tires me out. Just by reading it.

hoodjem
04-02-2012, 06:19 AM
I hate how the author uses short sentences.

One after another. Again, and again. But this is how it is. It tires me out. Just by reading it.Interesting, and some of these are not even sentences.

Azzurri
04-04-2012, 09:48 AM
Not at all.Leonard,Duran,Robinson much much better than Tyson.Foreman,Frazier,Holmes,Norton,Dempsey...and Holyfield¡¡¡

I am confused by your post. Leonard, Duran and Robinson (I believe) were not heavyweights. Its kinda hard to compare fighters from different weight classes.

Maybe Dempsey, but none of the other guys you mention would sniff a PRIME Tyson. Norton..c'mon. Frazier, I give you that one. I just forgot about him.

I won't even debate this matter any further with you since this is not about boxing. so have a nice day.

pc1
04-04-2012, 12:53 PM
I am confused by your post. Leonard, Duran and Robinson (I believe) were not heavyweights. Its kinda hard to compare fighters from different weight classes.

Maybe Dempsey, but none of the other guys you mention would sniff a PRIME Tyson. Norton..c'mon. Frazier, I give you that one. I just forgot about him.

I won't even debate this matter any further with you since this is not about boxing. so have a nice day.

Prime Tyson may be great as a boxer but I prefer when he teaches. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnxNnJYziMY

kiki
04-04-2012, 01:52 PM
I am confused by your post. Leonard, Duran and Robinson (I believe) were not heavyweights. Its kinda hard to compare fighters from different weight classes.

Maybe Dempsey, but none of the other guys you mention would sniff a PRIME Tyson. Norton..c'mon. Frazier, I give you that one. I just forgot about him.

I won't even debate this matter any further with you since this is not about boxing. so have a nice day.

You too.And remember: quality has nothing to see with size - although I know a couple of posters here that are devoted to that theory-

Gonzalito17
04-07-2012, 03:44 PM
Pound for pound Chang, Rios, Hewitt are some of the best tennis players of all time. If Rios had about3 inches more of height and 15 pounds of heft, he would have dominated.

Hewitt actually did dominate despite his smaller stature.

kiki
04-07-2012, 03:50 PM
Pound for pound Chang, Rios, Hewitt are some of the best tennis players of all time. If Rios had about3 inches more of height and 15 pounds of heft, he would have dominated.

Hewitt actually did dominate despite his smaller stature.

Good players and great fighters were Chang and hewitt.Rios, just a very good player.But if you talk about all time greats, for small guys you must look at Rod Laver and Ken Rosewall.They beat most of the giants of their time, which are among the greatest ever tennis players.

Chang,Hewitt and, specially Rios, aren´t just in the same league.

Gonzalito17
04-12-2012, 02:40 PM
Good players and great fighters were Chang and hewitt.Rios, just a very good player.But if you talk about all time greats, for small guys you must look at Rod Laver and Ken Rosewall.They beat most of the giants of their time, which are among the greatest ever tennis players.

Chang,Hewitt and, specially Rios, aren´t just in the same league.

True but Rosewall and Laver didn't have to play beasts like Sampras, Rafter, Goran, Krajicek Becker, Edberg, Agassi, Courier, etc. Rios at his best was on par with these great champions however his best only shined on rare occasions, the majority of his career was an enigma.

BeHappy
04-12-2012, 05:04 PM
True but Rosewall and Laver didn't have to play beasts like Sampras, Rafter, Goran, Krajicek Becker, Edberg, Agassi, Courier, etc. Rios at his best was on par with these great champions however his best only shined on rare occasions, the majority of his career was an enigma.

They did actually, Stan Smith and Pancho Gonzales were big guys.

Azzurri
04-13-2012, 08:12 AM
Prime Tyson may be great as a boxer but I prefer when he teaches. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnxNnJYziMY

LOL...wow. I never saw that skit. Thanks for sharing!

Azzurri
04-13-2012, 08:14 AM
Pound for pound Chang, Rios, Hewitt are some of the best tennis players of all time. If Rios had about3 inches more of height and 15 pounds of heft, he would have dominated.

Hewitt actually did dominate despite his smaller stature.

what??? first you claim if Rios had a few more inches and pounds he would have dominated, then you provide a perfect example of a short/slight player that did. are you sure this is what you meant?

I always respected Chang and have stuck up for him many times here. Rios had a ton of talent, but so does every to 50 tour player. its the mental game that seperates players. especially top 10 players. Rios was just a ****.

Gonzalito17
04-13-2012, 11:09 AM
You got me Azzurri I don't know what I meant : )

Maybe Rios needed more physicality to make up for his inconsistent mental fortitude. Hewitt was such an animalistic competitor he did not need to be physically on par with the top guns. He was like a Manny Pacquiao, the small guy who could take down the bigger fighters (like Oscar De La Hoya, Margarito, and of course Floyd Mayweather who is afraid to box Manny).

kiki
04-14-2012, 01:42 AM
True but Rosewall and Laver didn't have to play beasts like Sampras, Rafter, Goran, Krajicek Becker, Edberg, Agassi, Courier, etc. Rios at his best was on par with these great champions however his best only shined on rare occasions, the majority of his career was an enigma.

...No, they just played the likes of Pancho Gonzales,Stan Smith,John Newcombe,Lew Hoad...

Limpinhitter
04-14-2012, 02:29 PM
From the book, Marcelo Rios: The Man We Barely Knew. Thought this was really interestingly said by LJ, Rios certainly did play an original style of tennis...

Luke Jensen: "...it wasn't about #1. It wasn't about beating everybody. It was kind of about playing the game. I truly believe, if you believe in people from another planet and stuff like that, one day we'll unmask Rios as a person from another planet. His game was that way. He acted that way. He just wasn't about our kind. He had his own kind. His own way. And just let him do his thing. A love for everything that he brought to the game. Don't try to resist it or box it up and everything like that. Just keep his game. And everything that he brought was truly from a universe far away. Because we haven't seen anything like it. You can see specks of it. But it's just like the thing with Roger Federer - nobody plays that way. Every once in a while it jumps up. The game evolves. And if you're not here to see it, not at the Grand Slams and personally in the front row watching it, from the media, from the fans, or the other players, you can't see it on TV. And that's what he did. He just made that massive jump. He played a game that we really haven't seen yet. We've seen glimpses of it. But he was just that - I keep on saying genius. But that's truly what he was. Just a misunderstood genius that was more of a movement/revolution. He wasn't a jerk. You may not have liked the way he treated you. But there's one spot out there - one person is gonna win, one person is gonna lose. That's a tough business to be in. And it's a very difficult locker room. Not everybody is gonna play nice."

Luke Jensen must have been smoking dope when he wrote this!

Limpinhitter
04-14-2012, 02:41 PM
True but Rosewall and Laver didn't have to play beasts like Sampras, Rafter, Goran, Krajicek Becker, Edberg, Agassi, Courier, etc. Rios at his best was on par with these great champions however his best only shined on rare occasions, the majority of his career was an enigma.

You're joking? How about Pancho Gonzales, Lew Hoad, Neale Fraser, Alex Olmedo, Roy Emerson, Mal Anderson, Manuel Santana, Fred Stolle, Tony Roche, John Newcombe, Arthur Ashe, Stan Smith, Ilie Nastase, etc. etc. etc.

What are you smoking?

reversef
04-15-2012, 10:12 AM
To be honest about Rios.I understand he can surprise people that started watchin tennis in 1990´s and 2000´s...but, in the 60´s and 70´s, Rios would be a minor piece.Not even whispered in the same sentence as Pietrangeli,Nastase,Santana,Orantes,Panatta,Mecir and John Mc Enroe.
What is Mecir doing in your list?
I understand that you are talking about players with a lot of touch, but it's rich to say that Rios shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Mecir, who also finished his career slamless.
I remember Mecir. His game was unique, but I didn't like it at that time. It was strange to watch for the child I was. I watched some highlights on YT a few years ago, and I enjoyed his style more though.

reversef
04-15-2012, 10:29 AM
Kiki I guess you just had to be around watching tennis back then to appreciate Rios, I love Pete, Roger, Djok Agassi, Nadal but Rios had something they did not, he was more exciting to watch, when he was at his best, at least for my tennis tastes.
No other player has been as exciting to watch as Rios at his best for me as well. The problem is that he was not very often at his best though.

kiki
04-15-2012, 12:40 PM
What is Mecir doing in your list?
I understand that you are talking about players with a lot of touch, but it's rich to say that Rios shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Mecir, who also finished his career slamless.
I remember Mecir. His game was unique, but I didn't like it at that time. It was strange to watch for the child I was. I watched some highlights on YT a few years ago, and I enjoyed his style more though.

Mecir was a player able tio hit the most crazy angles and shots.had a great touch, it doesn´t mean he was all time drop shoting or so.Mecir had a far greater career than Rios.

kiki
04-15-2012, 12:41 PM
No other player has been as exciting to watch as Rios at his best for me as well. The problem is that he was not very often at his best though.

No offense, but I think you really haven´t watched great tennis.

Mustard
04-15-2012, 01:02 PM
No other player has been as exciting to watch as Rios at his best for me as well. The problem is that he was not very often at his best though.

There were many matches from 1997-1999 with Rios at his best, particularly the 1998 Indian Wells and Miami tournaments. Also, the first set against Agassi at 2002 Miami. He had some 5-set epics with Berasategui at the French Open as well, losing in 1995 but winning in 1999.

Azzurri
04-16-2012, 04:56 AM
You got me Azzurri I don't know what I meant : )

Maybe Rios needed more physicality to make up for his inconsistent mental fortitude. Hewitt was such an animalistic competitor he did not need to be physically on par with the top guns. He was like a Manny Pacquiao, the small guy who could take down the bigger fighters (like Oscar De La Hoya, Margarito, and of course Floyd Mayweather who is afraid to box Manny).

that's the thing about Hewitt. his mental game would not allow him to give up any points....he was a beast years ago.

subban
04-16-2012, 06:51 AM
Pound for pound Chang, Rios, Hewitt are some of the best tennis players of all time. If Rios had about3 inches more of height and 15 pounds of heft, he would have dominated.

Hewitt actually did dominate despite his smaller stature.


Maybe they should segregate tennis matches into weight classes? :)

reversef
04-16-2012, 11:08 AM
Mecir was a player able tio hit the most crazy angles and shots.had a great touch, it doesn´t mean he was all time drop shoting or so.Mecir had a far greater career than Rios.
He had a better career, I agree. Far greater, I'm not so sure. We are still talking about 2 major players who finished their career slamless. Pretty close.
But yes, Mecir had greater results, especially in the slams. And of course, he won the golden medal.

reversef
04-16-2012, 11:10 AM
No offense, but I think you really haven´t watched great tennis.
What do you mean? Laver, Rosewall & Co? Sorry, I was not born. :(

kiki
04-16-2012, 02:46 PM
What do you mean? Laver, Rosewall & Co? Sorry, I was not born. :(

yeah, that is what I meant...plus 1970´s and 1980´s...

kiki
04-16-2012, 02:49 PM
He had a better career, I agree. Far greater, I'm not so sure. We are still talking about 2 major players who finished their career slamless. Pretty close.
But yes, Mecir had greater results, especially in the slams. And of course, he won the golden medal.

I don´t give a damn for the Golden medal.

He won the WCT title destroying top form JMac in the final...heard of WCT'

Gonzalito17
04-18-2012, 10:08 AM
He had a better career, I agree. Far greater, I'm not so sure. We are still talking about 2 major players who finished their career slamless. Pretty close.
But yes, Mecir had greater results, especially in the slams. And of course, he won the golden medal.

Mecir had no where near the artistry of Rios and Rios got to #1 in the world. Rios>Mecir.

Limpinhitter
04-18-2012, 11:40 AM
Mecir had no where near the artistry of Rios and Rios got to #1 in the world. Rios>Mecir.

No where near? It's one thing to think that Rios had more "artistry" than Mecir, which is reasonably debatable. I happen to think "The Big Cat" was a more gifted, more artistic, player than Rios. But, to say "no where near" is, yet, more TT hyperbole at it's finest.

kiki
04-18-2012, 02:57 PM
No where near? It's one thing to think that Rios had more "artistry" than Mecir, which is reasonably debatable. I happen to think "The Big Cat" was a more gifted, more artistic, player than Rios. But, to say "no where near" is, yet, more TT hyperbole at it's finest.

I agree.While both were underachievers, I always found Milos not just a better player, but also more interesting to watch.

Gonzalito17
04-20-2012, 04:22 AM
Did anyone ever say Mecir had "the talent to win ten slams" like Safin said of Rios? Did Mecir ever reach a slam final? Did Mecir invent a new shot like Rios did with the jumping backhand? Why are there not dozens of video highlights of Mecir on You Tube like there are of Rios?

daveyboy
04-20-2012, 05:27 AM
Did anyone ever say Mecir had "the talent to win ten slams" like Safin said of Rios? Did Mecir ever reach a slam final? Did Mecir invent a new shot like Rios did with the jumping backhand? Why are there not dozens of video highlights of Mecir on You Tube like there are of Rios?

Lets first focus on the facts: Mecir made it to two GS finals- the Australian and US Open. He beat Edberg, Wilander and Becker on his way in the '86 US Open, no easy task. Did he have the talent to win 10 slams? No, but neither did Rios. Know why? Because neither of them one any. I don't care what Safin said, that's fact.

Don't get me wrong- Rios was astounding as a player. I really liked his game, and thought of him as Mecir of that era, but this was without any notable results. The Lipton International (Miami) was a huge tournament in 1987- Mecir won it, beating Lendl in the finals and making Lendl, who was still at the top, look breakable. Add to that a Gold Medal.

And Rios' three accomplishments were #1 with no slams, an Indian Wells title over Greg Rusedski and an Australian Open Final (and who did he beat along the way???). I think its equal if not in Mecir's favor as far as careers go.

Jumping backhand? Watch Jimmy Connors for the guy who "invented" that shot. Jump into it, hit it down the line and approach. Rios took it in all directions, and that showed his superb talent. Doesn't mean he "invented" the shot.

I will say this: Watching Rios and Mecir made me want to play tennis with more than just power. I liked them both.

Gonzalito17
04-21-2012, 03:58 AM
Well said Daveyboy, I never saw a complete Mecir match just highlights and that can be misleading. Wish the tennis channel would show vintage matches of lesser accomplished though popular players like Mecir, Gilbert, Rios, etc.

About Connors hitting that jump shot, I saw a lot of Connors but can't ever recall seeing him hit it, maybe a less flamboyant version of it but not the full monty.

li0scc0
04-21-2012, 05:43 AM
You could say the same about Mike Tyson, John McEnroe or Serena Williams. Aint gonna hold it against Rios, his talent more than made up for any personal shortcomings. Jensen articulated Rios very well.

Hence why I and many others dislike Mike Tyson, John McEnroe, and Serena Williams. And Rios.

Limpinhitter
04-21-2012, 07:47 AM
Lets first focus on the facts: Mecir made it to two GS finals- the Australian and US Open. He beat Edberg, Wilander and Becker on his way in the '86 US Open, no easy task. Did he have the talent to win 10 slams? No, but neither did Rios. Know why? Because neither of them one any. I don't care what Safin said, that's fact.

Don't get me wrong- Rios was astounding as a player. I really liked his game, and thought of him as Mecir of that era, but this was without any notable results. The Lipton International (Miami) was a huge tournament in 1987- Mecir won it, beating Lendl in the finals and making Lendl, who was still at the top, look breakable. Add to that a Gold Medal.

And Rios' three accomplishments were #1 with no slams, an Indian Wells title over Greg Rusedski and an Australian Open Final (and who did he beat along the way???). I think its equal if not in Mecir's favor as far as careers go.

Jumping backhand? Watch Jimmy Connors for the guy who "invented" that shot. Jump into it, hit it down the line and approach. Rios took it in all directions, and that showed his superb talent. Doesn't mean he "invented" the shot.

I will say this: Watching Rios and Mecir made me want to play tennis with more than just power. I liked them both.

IMO, Mecir in his prime was THE most talented player in tennis. I have no doubt that he had the talent to win 10 majors, maybe more. What he didn't have was the health. He had a bad back which hampered his serve, and shortened his career.

kiki
04-21-2012, 02:17 PM
Lets first focus on the facts: Mecir made it to two GS finals- the Australian and US Open. He beat Edberg, Wilander and Becker on his way in the '86 US Open, no easy task. Did he have the talent to win 10 slams? No, but neither did Rios. Know why? Because neither of them one any. I don't care what Safin said, that's fact.

Don't get me wrong- Rios was astounding as a player. I really liked his game, and thought of him as Mecir of that era, but this was without any notable results. The Lipton International (Miami) was a huge tournament in 1987- Mecir won it, beating Lendl in the finals and making Lendl, who was still at the top, look breakable. Add to that a Gold Medal.

And Rios' three accomplishments were #1 with no slams, an Indian Wells title over Greg Rusedski and an Australian Open Final (and who did he beat along the way???). I think its equal if not in Mecir's favor as far as careers go.

Jumping backhand? Watch Jimmy Connors for the guy who "invented" that shot. Jump into it, hit it down the line and approach. Rios took it in all directions, and that showed his superb talent. Doesn't mean he "invented" the shot.

I will say this: Watching Rios and Mecir made me want to play tennis with more than just power. I liked them both.

Mecir also took the very important WCT finals title over all timer John Mc Enroe.He was beating Becker,Wilander,Lendl,Connors,Mc Enroe,Edberg...

Mustard
04-21-2012, 02:47 PM
My favourite Mecir match is the way he took apart Lendl in the 1987 Miami final, winning 7-5, 6-2, 7-5. One of the greatest points of all time in the third set as well. Mecir got a standard ovation after he won the point.

kiki
04-21-2012, 02:49 PM
Lendl beat Mecir in the 2 slam finals he reached.There must have been something psychological, because when Mecir felt at ease, he was dangerous even for top Ivan...

Limpinhitter
04-21-2012, 03:39 PM
My favourite Mecir match is the way he took apart Lendl in the 1987 Miami final, winning 7-5, 6-2, 7-5. One of the greatest points of all time in the third set as well. Mecir got a standard ovation after he won the point.

My favorite Mecir match was his 6-1, 6-1, 6-3 victory over Mats Wilander on his way to beating McEnroe 6–0, 3–6, 6–2, 6–2 in the final of the 1987 WCT final in Dallas. Wilander never ran that much in a match in his life, maybe any two matches. He had no answer to Mecir's tactics. He couldn't outlast him, outhit him or outrun him. It was complete domination. The same could be said about the McEnroe match except for one set.

Mustard
04-21-2012, 05:02 PM
My favorite Mecir match was his 6-1, 6-1, 6-3 victory over Mats Wilander on his way to beating McEnroe 6–0, 3–6, 6–2, 6–2 in the final of the 1987 WCT final in Dallas. Wilander never ran that much in a match in his life, maybe any two matches. He had no answer to Mecir's tactics. He couldn't outlast him, outhit him or outrun him. It was complete domination. The same could be said about the McEnroe match except for one set.

Mecir did that to Wilander many times. If Wilander made a poor start and got broken early, he would be crushed by Mecir. In 1985, Mecir gave Wilander two beatings on clay, in Hamburg and Rome, just weeks before Wilander won the French Open, and there's that Wimbledon quarter final of 1988 as well.

hoodjem
04-21-2012, 06:27 PM
Why are there not dozens of video highlights of Mecir on You Tube like there are of Rios?I cannot agree that this proves much of anything.

Such Youtube vids are only evidence of tardism.

reversef
04-29-2012, 12:22 PM
Mecir did that to Wilander many times. If Wilander made a poor start and got broken early, he would be crushed by Mecir. In 1985, Mecir gave Wilander two beatings on clay, in Hamburg and Rome, just weeks before Wilander won the French Open, and there's that Wimbledon quarter final of 1988 as well.
Mecir was a nightmare match-up for Wilander. It's like, tactically, Mats didn't have any solution against him. Strange for him.

rufus_smith
04-29-2012, 01:37 PM
I'm a big Rios fan but here's a bit of mad artistry of Mecir that drove Lendl crazy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4_34nkKIUXc#t=236s

Gonzalito17
04-30-2012, 04:53 AM
Wow Rufus, what a nightmare it must have been to play Mecir he gets EVERY ball back. Love to watch players like that, though he is a little more mechanical to the flowing fluidity and artistry of Rios.

1970CRBase
04-30-2012, 07:02 AM
For 2.5 sets Mecir was making Edberg of all people look slow at Wimbledon, then his back seized up. Because of his back his serve was a puff and he ended up with half a career forced to retire early. But I don't agree Mecir would have been a multi slam champ, he just doesn't have that fanatic temperament single mindset of the champions, Mecir is like this laidback, tea drinking, fishing, absent minded academic who also just loves to play his tennis. Killer/terminator he is not. I'd surmise that his career, injury or no injury, was exactly what it should be and he's happy with it.

Limpinhitter
04-30-2012, 07:02 AM
Wow Rufus, what a nightmare it must have been to play Mecir he gets EVERY ball back. Love to watch players like that, though he is a little more mechanical to the flowing fluidity and artistry of Rios.

He doesn't just get every ball back. He's bigger, stronger and faster than almost all of his opponents. Yet, he makes his opponent run twice as far as he does, and then cranks winners when least expected, to the least expected spot on the court. And, he was just as good at net as he was in the backcourt. His only weakness was his serve, because of his bad back.

Limpinhitter
04-30-2012, 07:04 AM
For 2.5 sets Mecir was making Edberg of all people look slow at Wimbledon, then his back seized up. Because of his back his serve was a puff and he ended up with half a career forced to retire early. But I don't agree Mecir would have been a multi slam champ, he just doesn't have that fanatic temperament single mindset of the champions, Mecir is like this laidback, tea drinking, fishing, absent minded academic who also just loves to play his tennis. Killer/terminator he is not. I'd surmise that his career, injury or no injury, was exactly what it should be and he's happy with it.

I disagree! Pain will temporize your killer instinct more than anything. But, Mecir was an assassin of the most insidious kind. He killed by making his opponent bleed to death from 1,000 cuts, not a bullet to the head.

rufus_smith
04-30-2012, 10:35 AM
Wow Rufus, what a nightmare it must have been to play Mecir he gets EVERY ball back. Love to watch players like that, though he is a little more mechanical to the flowing fluidity and artistry of Rios.

+1 btw that was an "around the net post shot" . I love the look on Lendl's face.

1970CRBase
04-30-2012, 06:49 PM
I disagree! Pain will temporize your killer instinct more than anything. But, Mecir was an assassin of the most insidious kind. He killed by making his opponent bleed to death from 1,000 cuts, not a bullet to the head.

1000 cuts and jabs would be Mac.

I'm a major Mecir fan, the more I thought about the way he played, the more I realised his game was as absolutely unique as Mac but very different. Everybody these days is hyper aggressive, hyper powerful; Mecir was almost like a slow, soft, gentle style. Yet, slow didn't mean he wasn't already there before you knew it.

The closest I can describe Mecir's style is "Tai Chi Master".

Mustard
04-30-2012, 06:54 PM
Mecir would lull his opponents to sleep with steady rallies and then do something like smash a winner into the far corner or rush to the net out of nowhere to hit a volley winner (hence the nickname, the big cat).

kiki
05-01-2012, 12:20 PM
Wow Rufus, what a nightmare it must have been to play Mecir he gets EVERY ball back. Love to watch players like that, though he is a little more mechanical to the flowing fluidity and artistry of Rios.

You are right.I particularly loved the way Milos stretched all his body to reach a ball and hit a terrific passing or return.as JMac knows from their 87 WCT match.

kiki
05-01-2012, 12:22 PM
I can´t think, other than Connors,Rosewall,Laver or Agassi a better returner than an inspired Mecir.look at what he did with Mac,Edberg and Becker¡¡¡

Mustard
05-01-2012, 12:25 PM
I can´t think, other than Connors,Rosewall,Laver or Agassi a better returner than an inspired Mecir.look at what he did with Mac,Edberg and Becker¡¡¡

And Lendl in the 1987 Miami final. It was a systematic beating. Mecir even took the mickey out of Lendl during the match, and made Lendl get angry and frustrated. And, of course, Wilander hated playing against Mecir.

kiki
05-01-2012, 12:42 PM
And Lendl in the 1987 Miami final. It was a systematic beating. Mecir even took the mickey out of Lendl during the match, and made Lendl get angry and frustrated. And, of course, Wilander hated playing against Mecir.

First time I heard of Mecir was in the Philadelphia indoors in 1985, when he defeated Connors and played the final against a top form Mc Enroe, who beat him in 4 sets, if I recall correctly.Next was his dominance of Wilander ( I used to feel sorry for Wilander, seemed like Mecir was a complete mistery to him).In 86, he destroyed Becker in one of the best played matches of that decade, in the semid at Flushing Meadows.But Lendl trashed him the next day, as he would do in the AO of 1989.I can imagine how sweet revenge for Mecir was that Miami match.

Don´t forget that Checoslovakia was made of Czechs (Lendl) and Slovakians (Mecir).Now, they are separate states but in the 80´s, they were extremely rivals ( as would also happen with former Yugoslavia, in the sad days of 1991-1995)

Mustard
05-01-2012, 12:46 PM
Mecir would talk about how much he liked American baseball, but also talked about how much he liked living in Czechoslovakia and to fish, whereas Lendl would mention how he was remote from Czechoslovakia and that he felt American. Lendl particularly mentioned this in his 1986 US Open winning speech.

kiki
05-01-2012, 12:51 PM
Mecir would talk about how much he liked American baseball, but also talked about how much he liked living in Czechoslovakia and to fish, whereas Lendl would mention how he was remote from Czechoslovakia and that he felt American. Lendl particularly mentioned this in his 1986 US Open winning speech.

Mecir was also a top doubles player ( specially alongside countryman, solid Tomas Smid) in an era loaded of very good doubles players.

Mustard
05-01-2012, 12:53 PM
And Mecir later coached Karol Kucera, almost like an inferior version of Mecir, who was nicknamed the "little cat". Kucera beat Sampras at the 1998 Australian Open, and beat Agassi at both the 1998 US Open and the 2000 French Open.

kiki
05-01-2012, 01:00 PM
And Mecir later coached Karol Kucera, almost like an inferior version of Mecir, who was nicknamed the "little cat". Kucera beat Sampras at the 1998 Australian Open, and beat Agassi at both the 1998 US Open and the 2000 French Open.

I remember him, was Czech nº 2 after Korda for most of the 90´s.Ulirach did have some success in the pro tour in the 1990´s, if I recall properly.

Mustard
05-01-2012, 01:09 PM
I remember him, was Czech nº 2 after Korda for most of the 90´s.Ulirach did have some success in the pro tour in the 1990´s, if I recall properly.

Like Mecir, Kucera was Slovakian. At the start of 1993, Czechoslovakia was split into 2 seperate countries, the Czech Republic and Slovakia.

Tshooter
05-01-2012, 09:40 PM
"beat Agassi at both the 1998 US Open"

That match was played over two days (rain delay) and it was memorable.

Agassi was acting like a real jerk most of that match (which he was prone to do before his kissing the crowd image makeover) imitating KKs aborted serve toss.

Agassi also pulled out the moonball during set four, which you don't see much these days. It and the imitating started to annoy KK. Most people thought when Agassi came back and won the fourth on day 1, he was going to win the match. But KK came out day two and broke pretty early as I recall.

And KK did play like Mecir.

Gonzalito17
05-02-2012, 04:12 AM
Kucera did play very similarly to Mecir and was a damn good player, never forget those matches vs. Sampras and Agassi, too bad he couldn"t keep up that level longer or he would have been a top player.

Another underrated Czech player was Jiri Novak, who had a blowout win over Sampras in that Davis Cup tie in Pete's home court at the Forum in LA. Novak also had many wins over Rios and actually dominated Rios. Very good player.

Tshooter
05-03-2012, 01:02 AM
Another underrated Czech player was Jiri Novak"

Not sure Jiri was underrated. I thought he was well regarded. A tough player who never really beat himself or got down on himself either. He's another guy I'd put in the Mecir/KK style mold. Hit relatively flat and liked to hit the ball on the rise. The only guy these days I think plays a somewhat similar style might be Stepenak. All four made (or make in the case of RS) the game more interesting to me.

slice bh compliment
05-03-2012, 02:15 AM
,,, The guy kept it real, you gotta give me credit for that. )

Yes, in fact, at a recent round table discussion with all of tennis' legends and pundits, it was established that Rios kep' it on the reallyreal and that credit for that goes to gonzalito17. Word.

pmerk34
05-03-2012, 04:10 AM
"beat Agassi at both the 1998 US Open"

That match was played over two days (rain delay) and it was memorable.

Agassi was acting like a real jerk most of that match (which he was prone to do before his kissing the crowd image makeover) imitating KKs aborted serve toss.

Agassi also pulled out the moonball during set four, which you don't see much these days. It and the imitating started to annoy KK. Most people thought when Agassi came back and won the fourth on day 1, he was going to win the match. But KK came out day two and broke pretty early as I recall.

And KK did play like Mecir.

He imitated his toss because Kucera had this annoying habit of constantly tossing the ball for his serve letting it drop without serving and then "apologizing" for it.

Tshooter
05-03-2012, 01:30 PM
I've seen KK a few times....

Agassi was imitating KK during that particular match to get under KKs skin -- pure gamesmanship. Not as a tit-for-tat.

Obviously I can only infer his mental state. But at least I have some basis for doing so. I saw the match.

Tshooter
05-03-2012, 01:32 PM
"The guy kept it real, you gotta give me credit for that."

If being a jerk is the current understanding of "keeping it real," then he was keeping it very real.

How are the book sales going ? And why don't you have them do a kindle edition ?