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View Full Version : Irvin, question on your fixed clamp starting main.


BlxTennis
03-14-2012, 06:34 AM
Hi Irvin,

I got a question on one of the ways to start the main with fixed clamp from the sticky thread. You pulled both mains and then clamped down one of the mains with a fixed clamp, then you loose both tensions and hand pulled one of the main string so that the fixed clamp stay at level with the main string before pulling with the machine. My question is , can you not just clamp one of the 2 main strings and then pull it with you hand to get the fixed clamp at level and then pull 60lbs with the machine?

Irvin
03-14-2012, 06:42 AM
You certainly can and if you do not have a starting clamp I would do that. If you are going to pull on one string to keep the clamp up I would pull on the clamped string farthest from the clamp (edit:o outside the frame) then tension the other main. This will put some back pressure on the string in the clamp so you don't pull the string through the clamp and damage it.

BlxTennis
03-14-2012, 07:19 AM
I actually have a GSS starting clamp and use the Yuzuki method from your video when I do multi or poly. However, I am going to string up some guts and want to limit the clamp & pull on the string if I don't have to :). So since the fixed clamp will hold the tension on the string after the other main is tensioned. What value does the starting clamp add? I will pull the string where the 1st fixed clamp is. Is it just another backup?

jim e
03-14-2012, 08:15 AM
I actually have a GSS starting clamp and use the Yuzuki method from your video when I do multi or poly. However, I am going to string up some guts and want to limit the clamp & pull on the string if I don't have to :). So since the fixed clamp will hold the tension on the string after the other main is tensioned. What value does the starting clamp add? I will pull the string where the 1st fixed clamp is. Is it just another backup?

When you pull the 1st pull on a racquet, that 1st pull places the most amount of forces on that 1st machines clamp, (the anchor clamp) ,as there are no opposite forces from a tensioned string. With the starting clamp added on that method there is some opposite pull with the starting clamp and this way you do not need to over tighten the anchor clamp to avoid slipping as some stringers will crush that main string so the anchor clamp will hold, or have it too loose and the string slips wich is no good as well.
This method is actually easier on the string, as that anchor clamp just needs the typical amount of pressure to hold the string without overtightening it.

Irvin
03-14-2012, 09:26 AM
What Jim said is absolutely true. Also I might add now when I place the starting clamp on the string I only clamp the string about half way in the jaws. That is enough to keep the string from slipping and hold the fixed clamp up and it does not damage the gut string while clamping it outside the frame.

BlxTennis
03-14-2012, 07:44 PM
Irvin, it's good to know that I don't have to clamp my starting clamp all the way in but midway. I just strung a racquet last weekend. I used the starting clamp on the cross. I looked at the string after tieing the knot. That part of the string where it was clamp all the way in the starting clamp was flatten. I don't want to do that to my gut string.

Irvin
03-15-2012, 03:06 AM
You should not do that on your gut string. If you ever feel you have a need to I use tubing on the string when I do. Not Teflon tubing but some old plastic tubing I have that has more friction. It seems to protect the string better.

If you use gut for the crosses I prefer a method similar to Yusuki's method for starting the mains and still only clamp the string outside the frame with the starting clamp half way.

It is best to get a small scrap piece of gut and practice how far in the clamp you can clamp it so it does not leave any ghosting. Half way works for me and with the friction of the cross it may take even less.

GlenK
03-15-2012, 03:17 AM
I use the Yusuki method to start my gut mains but do not leave the starting clamp on the gut for more than a few seconds. Right after I clamp the second left main I re-pull the RM with the clamp to get the starting clamp off the string. It does not damage the string.

Irvin
03-15-2012, 03:30 AM
I don't recall where and when I seen it but I believe the USRSA recommends you not clamp gut outside the frame in this fashion. It can flatten the string and can cause damage maybe. The problem is that point where you clamp the string is going to make a 90 degree bend after it is tensioned at the grommet. I would not do it. It may work 99 time out of 100 for you but the one time it doesn't $$Ca-ching$$. Better safe than sorry with gut.

jim e
03-15-2012, 03:40 PM
I don't recall where and when I seen it but I believe the USRSA recommends you not clamp gut outside the frame in this fashion. It can flatten the string and can cause damage maybe. The problem is that point where you clamp the string is going to make a 90 degree bend after it is tensioned at the grommet. I would not do it. It may work 99 time out of 100 for you but the one time it doesn't $$Ca-ching$$. Better safe than sorry with gut.

I use the Yusuki method even with gut many many times where the starting clamp is on the outside of frame with that technique. As you well know when you repull that main with the starting clamp the string pulls tighter as the initial pull is only about 1/2 the reference tension so when that main is pulled again that part of the string that is in contact with the starting clamp has moved as the string is now being tensioned properly and it moves enough where it is not at the 90 degree bend, especially with gut as the string stretches as well so the place where the starting clamp was is beyond the turning point on the grommet. There is no issue with this.

BlxTennis
03-15-2012, 04:26 PM
Irvin, I am going to use gut on main only. I don't intend to use the starting clamp or the Yusuki method at all for gut. I only use that method for multi. That's why I inquired about locking one of the main in with a fixed clamp and hand put the other string so that the clamp stays at string level then pull the loose string with the machine, clamp the string then have the machine then pull the other string where the anchor clamp is.

GlenK
03-16-2012, 02:47 AM
I use the Yusuki method even with gut many many times where the starting clamp is on the outside of frame with that technique. As you well know when you repull that main with the starting clamp the string pulls tighter as the initial pull is only about 1/2 the reference tension so when that main is pulled again that part of the string that is in contact with the starting clamp has moved as the string is now being tensioned properly and it moves enough where it is not at the 90 degree bend, especially with gut as the string stretches as well so the place where the starting clamp was is beyond the turning point on the grommet. There is no issue with this.

Exactly right. My usual set up is gut/poly and I string all of my own racquets using this method with no issues. Like I said above, I re-pull that main with the starting clamp immediately after pulling the 2L main.

Irvin
03-16-2012, 03:22 AM
I still say be better safe than sorry. The 90 degree bend I was talking about was at grommet #2. When you tension the string with the starting clamp the clamp moves about 1/2" away from the frame. Smaller rackets with lower tensions will be less and larger racket with higher tensions will be more. The distance from the first to the second grommet hole is about 1/2". The point where the string enters the starting clamp is just about where the 90 degree turn is.

BTW that was a recommendation from the USRSA not me I just happen to agree with them. Here is the article see the Clamping the Frame section:

http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2006/03/dont_bust_a_gut.html

I have modified their recommendation thought and do not clamp the string all the way in the starting clamp to reduce damage to delicate strings. I have also tested my clamps (I even have videos on this) and I think I know what they will and will not do.

jim e
03-16-2012, 07:47 AM
I still say be better safe than sorry. The 90 degree bend I was talking about was at grommet #2. When you tension the string with the starting clamp the clamp moves about 1/2" away from the frame. Smaller rackets with lower tensions will be less and larger racket with higher tensions will be more. The distance from the first to the second grommet hole is about 1/2". The point where the string enters the starting clamp is just about where the 90 degree turn is.

BTW that was a recommendation from the USRSA not me I just happen to agree with them. Here is the article see the Clamping the Frame section:

http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2006/03/dont_bust_a_gut.html

I have modified their recommendation thought and do not clamp the string all the way in the starting clamp to reduce damage to delicate strings. I have also tested my clamps (I even have videos on this) and I think I know what they will and will not do.

That article does not specify the Yasuki method with the clamping at all. If you clamp a normal tensioned string yes it can flatten the string where it will rest against a grommet, but with the Yasuki method you are clamping a partially tensioned string, and the string when retensioned properly at that later pull moves more than a 1/2 inch especially gut so there is no issue.

That same article says that you can use a starting clamp outside the frame when using an around-the-world (ATW) pattern and nat. gut and the starting clamp is right at the grommet area and they said it is okay so just how do you interpet that comment?? Using the Yasuki method the string where it contacts the starting clamp is even in a better position.

I bet that article saying not to use a starting clamp on the outside of racquet on 1st pull is when a starting clamp is the only clamp used for the 1st pull and can stress the string at that stress bearing area, and I have seen stringers do exactly that. This is a different situation.I guess it depends on how you interpret the comments made in that article.
Anyways I have no issues using the Yasuki method using nat. gut or any other string.

Irvin
03-16-2012, 12:20 PM
That article does not specify the Yasuki method with the clamping at all. If you clamp a normal tensioned string yes it can flatten the string where it will rest against a grommet, but with the Yasuki method you are clamping a partially tensioned string, and the string when retensioned properly at that later pull moves more than a 1/2 inch especially gut so there is no issue...

Here is the fist paragraph from Clamping the Frame, "Because gut is more susceptible to damage from clamp slippage, you want to make certain it doesn’t happen, especially on the difficult first pull. One safe way is to mount a starting clamp immediately behind the machine clamp to increase the clamping force. Don’t use a starting clamp on the outside of the racquet, as this can stress the string."

To me they are talking about the string slipping through the fixed clamp and how to stop it. They (USRSA) suggest you put the starting clamp up against the fixed clamp (machine clamp) and the specifically say don't put the clamp on the outside of the frame as Yusuki does.

...That same article says that you can use a starting clamp outside the frame when using an around-the-world (ATW) pattern and nat. gut and the starting clamp is right at the grommet area and they said it is okay so just how do you interpet that comment?? ...

When using the Yusuki method there is about 12" of string between the starting clamp outside the frame and the machine clamp inside the frame. Let's assume those clamps are on the first left main. Now you will pull tension on the first right main and because there is 12" of half tensioned string on the left main there is still a good change the string could slip in the machine clamp, and there is a chance the starting clamp could damage the the string where it is clamped but slight.

When you are using a starting clamp for an ATW pattern you pull tension on a string and clamp it with a starting clamp you never pull tension from inside the frame on that clamp again so it is a different story.

EDIT:

...I bet that article saying not to use a starting clamp on the outside of racquet on 1st pull is when a starting clamp is the only clamp used for the 1st pull and can stress the string at that stress bearing area, and I have seen stringers do exactly that. This is a different situation.I guess it depends on how you interpret the comments made in that article.
Anyways I have no issues using the Yasuki method using nat. gut or any other string.

Now that may be so but I would not bet on it. I am not a USRSA member or I would call and ask then it would not be open to interpretation. I do agree though that is the worst you could do.

Irvin
03-16-2012, 02:06 PM
Let me explain why I like my modified Yusuki method to start the mains. The only modification is I place the string in the starting clamp only partially so I do not crush the string.

When I pull tension on the two center mains there is less than 50% of reference tension on each string do to grommet friction. When one string is clamped with machine clamp and then a starting clamp there is drawback in two directions. One from the starting clamp when it seats against the frame and the other from the tension in the string drawing the machine clamp back. When tension in pulled on the first mains the partial tension in the other center mains held by the starting clamp applies back pressure on the machine clamp and help to prevent any slippage there may be.

Using the USRSA method where the starting clamp is placed against the machine clamp it is never snug against the machine clamp when tension is removed. You can twist it very easy. When you pull tension on the other main if there be slippage through the machine clamp because there is no back pressure. If there is slippage it is slight but it is there none the less. Let gut slip through a diamond coated clamp just a little bit and you have trouble.