PDA

View Full Version : Does Taylor Dent hold the record for..... (Spoiler)


BreakPoint
07-24-2005, 05:48 PM
...retiring during a match? I don't know how many times I've seen him retire during a match or even default before the match has even started. He must hold some kind of record for that.

Contrast that with Agassi, who I believe has never retired during a match in his extremely long career (that's why he was so adamant on finishing his 1st round match at the French although it was obvious he was really hurting). I think Agassi also rarely defaults a match (which is why he made that special announcement in person to the spectators at the Pacific Life Open this year).

treo
07-24-2005, 06:52 PM
Your comparing one of the most unfit players on the tour with one of the fittest. Dent is also lazy both physically and mentally.

TwistServe
07-24-2005, 06:57 PM
Dent is a person that gives up.. Look at massu during the Olympics last year when he was so dead from fatigue and still beat Mardy Fish.

ohplease
07-24-2005, 07:08 PM
While it's probably true that Dent could be in better shape - don't discount the weather as a factor. I was in Indianapolis yesterday to watch the semis and it was absolutely brutal out in the sun. Tolerable in the shade. The weather today was even worse. You could have given me the best seats in the house, in the shade, for free for today's final and I probably would not have gone - it was that hot.

KuramaIX
07-24-2005, 07:13 PM
jimbo bashed on dent's physical fitness so much. I have to say ginepri looks in good shape.

BreakPoint
07-24-2005, 07:23 PM
Your comparing one of the most unfit players on the tour with one of the fittest. Dent is also lazy both physically and mentally.

Yes, that's why I chose Agassi to make the comparsion. If I chose another unfit player, it wouldn't be much of a "contrast" would it?

FYI, Agassi only became extremely fit later in his career. In his earlier days, he was very unfit - eating lots of fast food and junk food, and almost never working out. Still, he never retired nor defaulted even then.

gineprimania
07-24-2005, 07:25 PM
If Dent put in the work that Ginepri put in, to get to this level so far, Dent would have won that thing, and I'm saying this as a Ginepri fan. Good thing Ginepri realized all he's got in his tennis game and really applied himself, while Dent knows what he has to do and is too stubborn to do it.

Phil
07-24-2005, 07:34 PM
Contrast that with Agassi, who I believe has never retired during a match in his extremely long career (that's why he was so adamant on finishing his 1st round match at the French although it was obvious he was really hurting). I think Agassi also rarely defaults a match (which is why he made that special announcement in person to the spectators at the Pacific Life Open this year).

No, he may not have technically retired in his career, but he certainly TANKED his share of matches, and still does occasionally. You tell me which one is worse-retiring or taking.

Muse
07-24-2005, 07:37 PM
That match was a joke today, I'm suprised Dent won the 1st set. He looks like he didn't even give a damn that he had made it into the championship, it's kinda sad that the fans had to see that.

On the plus side, Ginepri looks much better as a player, both with his game and his attire. The looks like a real player now that his hair is a bit longer and he shaved the ugly facial hair. He also needs to loose the sleeveless shirts, like he did during the 3rd set.

Jon Hampton
07-24-2005, 07:43 PM
Honestly, Taylor Dent is like the Lindsay Davenport of the early 2000's...fat, a little out of shape, etc. The only difference is that Davey had heart. Every point was fought for and earned. Dent has no heart. Win or lose, he doesn't care. He needs to stop playing tennis for a year and work on only physical conditioning. At the pace he's going, he's going to retire/default matches years in advance...

US OPEN OFFICIAL: "Hello, you've reached the U.S. Open hotline"

DENT: "Hi, this is Taylor Dent. I wanted to tell you that I'd be defaulting my 3rd round match in 2009. I feel that I'll have had a difficult second round and don't forsee myself able to run after that many balls in the summer heat. Thanks for understanding.

BreakPoint
07-24-2005, 07:45 PM
No, he may not have technically retired in his career, but he certainly TANKED his share of matches, and still does occasionally. You tell me which one is worse-retiring or taking.

Agreed. Agassi has tanked plenty of matches. However, the topic was on retiring during a match - as Dent seems to do quite commonly.

joe sch
07-24-2005, 08:11 PM
Taylor is a big guy who breaks down much faster than most all of the ATP top level players. He surely need to get in better shape. I think he was much more fit and seems to have regressed recently. His does not look as muscular in the legs and needs alot of midsection work. Getting to the finals at the RCA is still a great accomplishment and I hope he does not celebrate with a pizza and 6 pack. Keep going Taylor !

theace21
07-24-2005, 08:44 PM
Ranked in the top 20 - He probably doesn't have the drive to take it to the next level...Who can argue, he is traveling the world playing tennis. Making good money, training might not be a top priority. Could be working 9-5.

Phil
07-24-2005, 09:07 PM
Agreed. Agassi has tanked plenty of matches. However, the topic was on retiring during a match - as Dent seems to do quite commonly.

And topics do change in the course of a thread. You mentioned Agassi in the first post of this thread, comparing him quite favorably to Dent. Therefore, Agassi's reputation as a tanker is fair game-in this respect, he doesn't compare so favorably to Dent. Tank, retire...the point is, BOTH of these guys have a habit of leaving the fans high and dry.

Kevin Patrick
07-25-2005, 08:52 AM
BP,
Agassi has retired during many matches during his career. It happens to everyone(& some of those early in his career were questionable "injuries")
You are correct that until the Pacific Life this year that he never gave a walkover to his opponent.
As to whether Dent has the record for retiring/walkovers, I doubt it, he's kinda young. But he certainly has the record for the last 3-4 years.

tennissavy
07-25-2005, 09:34 AM
Taylor Dent is mentally weak and has almost no fighting spirit. I told my family and friends yesterday that if Dent goes down 0-2 or 0-3 in the 3rd set,he will probably retire because in those situations, he always does. They were very surprised to see that I called that one so precisely. In addition to his mental softness, he is not a good player. I posted this a long time ago and he keeps proving me right. His game is serve and volley and he is not adept at that style. It is fairly easy to pass him at the net and even when he volleys, he rarely does so with precision. He has actually over-achieved. He is one of the worst players on the atp.

andfor
07-25-2005, 09:49 AM
Taylor has a different mental outlook on tennis. Just listen to his interviews how he talks about "not being able to control what happens on the tennis court" etc. He seems to rationalize his results with this attitude. Maybe that's why he does not have a coach and does not have his father coaching him. I wonder how deep his drive to do much more than he has really is. That's something no one may ever know that but Taylor himself.

I am not judging the guy here as many are. I wish the best for him and hope he does better. The bottom line is none of us know what's really going on in any of these guys heads. For all we know Taylor could be a complete tennis burnoutm maybe, maybe not. Surviving on the pro tennis tour on his God given talent alone saving as much money as he can (or not) knowing that when it all comes to an end he'll have to take a 9-5 like the rest of us shmucks. If that's his deal or whatever motivates him who really cares and what good does bashing him or anyone do? Enjoy what he give us, or what he does not give and let it be. He'll be gone from the tour in a few years and another guy will come along for the "haters" to bash.

Shyyre
07-25-2005, 09:51 AM
dents a *****, a spoiled brat, and a whiner... enough said. he doesn't want to put in the effort, then he should feel ashamed that he let all those fans down who went to watch him in the heat.

and as i've said on other posts, i was there on saturday, for the semis, where he played rusedski and it was almost as hot, and he looked like he was about to die then as well. i've no pity for him whatsoever, it's a pitty they didn't force him to finish... maybe he wuold have ended up in the hospital :mad:

Kevin Patrick
07-25-2005, 09:59 AM
True enough, andfor. Did you watch the match? Courier mentioned that he & Pmac, when talking to him during Davis Cup, would encourage Dent to get in better shape, "just to see how good he could be."
I understand that not everyone can work as hard as Muster, Courier, etc. But being overweight for a pro tennis player? Being in decent shape shouldn't even be an issue at this level. I can't understand the mentality of a Safin, but at least he takes care of his body. Dent has been around long enough to realize maybe he wouldn't have to retire so much if he just lost some weight. He obviously doesn't care enough to do so & just relies on his talent to win(maybe his good year has given him false hopes for how far he can go while being out of shape)

NoBadMojo
07-25-2005, 10:07 AM
i agree with Andfor but just cant not agree w. tennis savvy that dent is a bad tennis player...he's in the top20 the WORLD now i believe and is doing that by playing serve/volley T which is an almost impossibe style to play effectivey with the way the game is now..no small feat to reach that ranking. the guy is a really good athlete and is playing the style of play which gives him the best chance at success <for him>...it's a very demanding style of play..maybe the guy IS a slacker conditioningwise, but nobody here speaks with any authority whether the guy trains hard or not..it's a grind out there and serve volley play is gonna give you more injuries than baseline style...maybe the guy gives all that he has to give. his comment about not being able to control things on the court is one that would be said by many serve volleyers....you come in behind both serves, try and hit your spots, and if the guy can pass you for the entire match then he was just too good that day.also there may be some physical makeup reasons why he gets injured and crashes like that...just as lance armstrong supposedly was gifted with an abnormally large physical heart, maybe dent's is smaller and he's a big framed guy...i agree it is always disapointng for the fans to see someone perform at less than then what they wish for, but we need guys like dent on the tour..hehas a personality and plays a brand of T that is rarely seen anymore. so easy for others to criticize everything and everyone around here

andfor
07-25-2005, 10:07 AM
Kevin, I hear ya. It's really so hard and confusing to say why a guy with so much talent like Taylor only has part of the puzzle put together. Obviously with a better fitness program his results would reflect. The guy is clearly his own person and what we or anyone have to say, recommend or judge will never matter to him. I like his game and he clearly has major talent. I hope someday he'll put it together. If not I can move on.

BreakPoint
07-25-2005, 12:09 PM
BP,
Agassi has retired during many matches during his career. It happens to everyone(& some of those early in his career were questionable "injuries")
You are correct that until the Pacific Life this year that he never gave a walkover to his opponent.
As to whether Dent has the record for retiring/walkovers, I doubt it, he's kinda young. But he certainly has the record for the last 3-4 years.

Thanks for the correction, Kevin. Now that I think about it, I think you're right as I do seem to recall Agassi retiring during some matches in the past. I guess what confused me was that the commentators at the French Open kept saying that Agassi wanted to finish his first round match with Nieminen, even though he was clearly injured, because he never retires during a match.

Max G.
07-25-2005, 12:26 PM
... In addition to his mental softness, he is not a good player. I posted this a long time ago and he keeps proving me right. His game is serve and volley and he is not adept at that style. It is fairly easy to pass him at the net and even when he volleys, he rarely does so with precision. He has actually over-achieved. He is one of the worst players on the atp.

And actually, you are outright wrong. He's actually, at the moment, the 22nd-best player on the ATP tour.

I'm not going to argue with him being out of shape, since he clearly is. I was thinking about arguing that he's not mentally weak he's just physically weak, but decided against it since the distinction is pretty hard to make and they often go together, physical weakness causes mental weakness.

But I most certainly am going ot argue with your claim that he's one of the worst players on the ATP, because that is fairly easy to prove wrong.
1) His ranking. 22 in the world. 'nuff said.
2) His record. Over the past 12 months, his record is 37-21. If he was "one of the worst players on the ATP," he most certainly would not be winning more than half of his matches.

Dent is a pretty damn good player, and it's a shame that he's not in shape because then he could be even better; but even though he's not, he compensates for it well enough.

TennisD
07-25-2005, 12:27 PM
Taylor Dent is mentally weak and has almost no fighting spirit. I told my family and friends yesterday that if Dent goes down 0-2 or 0-3 in the 3rd set,he will probably retire because in those situations, he always does. They were very surprised to see that I called that one so precisely. In addition to his mental softness, he is not a good player. I posted this a long time ago and he keeps proving me right. His game is serve and volley and he is not adept at that style. It is fairly easy to pass him at the net and even when he volleys, he rarely does so with precision. He has actually over-achieved. He is one of the worst players on the atp.
Yes, I'm sure you could easily beat him :rolleyes:

Kevin Patrick
07-25-2005, 12:36 PM
Yeah BP,
don't know what the commentators were talking about. I think Agassi didn't want to stop during that French Open match because he knew it might be his last appearance there & didn't want it to be recorded as a "ret."

I was just think about the "no walkover" part of Agassi's record. He did withdraw a few times from the Masters Cup after playing 1 or 2 matches. An alternate was given his spot in those instances, but in a way he did give walkovers.

Your intitial question (about who retires the most) makes me curious. I'm trying to think of phsically/mentally fragile players who've done that a lot. Rios comes to mind. I'm also curious as to whether there are any players who never retired during a match.

Kevin Patrick
07-25-2005, 01:09 PM
Dent's ret/walkover record actually isn't that bad.
Not counting challengers/qualies, just main tour events:
'05: 3 rt
'04: 1 rt
'03: 1 walkover, 1 retired
'00: 1 rt

He's retired twice to Agassi(both in majors)

Agassi ret's:
'88 to '90:4
'98:1
'99:2
'00:4

Tchocky
07-25-2005, 01:21 PM
I think you guys are being a little too hard on Taylor. It was almost 120 degrees fahrenheit on the court yesterday. The doubles final was decided by default as well. Yes, Taylor needs to lose some weight but who doesn't.

gugafanatic
07-25-2005, 02:10 PM
I believe Nikolay Davydenko has also retired on a few occasions this year. I think he could go deep into grand slams but his body does not usually hold up in the 2 weeks.

Tennis312
07-26-2005, 02:45 PM
I think you guys are being a little too hard on Taylor. It was almost 120 degrees fahrenheit on the court yesterday. The doubles final was decided by default as well. Yes, Taylor needs to lose some weight but who doesn't.
I couldn't agree more. It was beastly hot in Indy; if you have any doubt the doubles --DOUBLES-- was decided by default because a player retired. The dude who was crowing about if Dent went down 2-0 or 3-0 in the second, that would be it, obviously wasn't there, or, if he was, wasn't paying attention. Dent was off from the beginning of the second -- no zip in his serves, was staying back, just wasn't himself. Dent was clearly in physical trouble and that let to him going down 3-0; he did not give up. Indeed, he continued playing long after it was clear he was really ailing. During the change-over they were giving him smelling salts -- really painful to watch. Is Dent really that out of shape? He has a thicker build, but it serves him well when serving and volleying. His serve has some serious heat and he moves very well on the court -- no Davenport, he.