PDA

View Full Version : If the norm becomes baseline tennis, shouldn't S&V make a revival?


kragster
03-14-2012, 08:55 AM
In almost any sport, having a strategy that is counter to the dominant strategy is a big bonus.

Today's generation of baseliners may do well against S&V, because while they were growing up, S&V tennis was still present and taught. So perhaps S&V won't be as effective in today's tennis. But think about 5 years from now. If the kids of that generation are only taught one way to play and that is baseline tennis, then they will have very limited opportunities to develop counter strategies to a S&V player. So if a talented S&Ver were to come along (ala Pete Sampras like), they should do very well, even with the slowed surfaces.

djokovicgonzalez2010
03-14-2012, 08:57 AM
Harrison does it on occasion, let us see if he does it more.
But it's slower now

monfed
03-14-2012, 09:02 AM
Llodra(a pure S&Ver) going deep in Bercy 2010 and being a complete flopshow in other events proves without doubt that surfaces need to be sped up for S&Vers to have any chance.

On slow surfaces the odd fluke/freak win may occur but it's simply not enough to revive S&V tennis.

Cup8489
03-14-2012, 09:03 AM
Court speeds gotta go up.. there is just too much time for people to hit passes nowadays.

the green god
03-14-2012, 09:17 AM
No. Tennis is taught one way now so the entire talent pool is never exposed to serious s&v tactics/schooling. Now by a stroke of luck, one kid with incredible talent might be being taught by his/her parent serve and volley, could make a breakthrough someday. It's one in a million chance. Hopefully some academy does not get a hold of this promised child:) and try and make him into a "better player".

timnz
03-14-2012, 03:34 PM
Given the playing surfaces. The australian open is as slow as the French Open, Wimbledon is slow and the US Open has slowed down. It suicide against a really good baseliners who has all the time in the world now to setup their passing shots.

Laurie
03-14-2012, 03:55 PM
You might be interested in the article I wrote about indoor surfaces being too slow. I interviewed an ATP spokesman, he was happy to be quoted but didn't want to be named, but the ATP clearly do not want surfaces speeded up at all. I also interviewed Richard Krajicek.

http://burnstennis.blogspot.com/#!/2012/03/indoor-tennis-dilemma.html

MichaelNadal
03-14-2012, 03:58 PM
You never know, it might. Sort of like history and fashion. lol.

kragster
03-14-2012, 04:12 PM
You might be interested in the article I wrote about indoor surfaces being too slow. I interviewed an ATP spokesman, he was happy to be quoted but didn't want to be named, but the ATP clearly do not want surfaces speeded up at all. I also interviewed Richard Krajicek.

http://burnstennis.blogspot.com/#!/2012/03/indoor-tennis-dilemma.html

Pretty good article, nicely done.

I think there is a way to swing the pendulum a little to the other side, without going all the way back. Perhaps when the ATP looks at the calendar, they should look at surface speeds and decide to allocate at least 30% of the year to fast surfaces. Right now its about 20%.

Mustard
03-14-2012, 04:13 PM
Gosh. Are people still talking about this? It's change and evolution, guys. Nothing stays the same, although the moaners moan regardless. In the 1990s, it was all about the power in the game that was "killing the sport", which is now powderpuff compared to the power in tennis nowadays.

LeeD
03-14-2012, 04:14 PM
I"m sure the ATP is trying to do the right thing.
Only problem here is that on the WestCoast USA, concrete courts are the norm, not the exception. And when concrete courts get worn, only wet grass plays faster.

FlashFlare11
03-14-2012, 04:14 PM
Not everywhere, but there needs to be a place where serve-and-volley players can thrive. Their haven (Wimbledon) has been taken away from them and they've literally been relegated to a small section of the year, a section which many people don't care for (and even indoor hard is getting slow). The courts that were meant to be fast should be sped up.

kragster
03-14-2012, 04:15 PM
Gosh. Are people still talking about this? It's change and evolution, guys. Nothing stays the same.

I think its more like fashion as MN said. Some day a good S&Ver or a couple will come along, people will start to really enjoy watching him/them and the ATP will change surface speeds again.

At the end of the day the ATP is single minded. Whatever generates the most revenue wins. At some point, people will crave S&V and that's when the ATP will change surfaces to bring it back.

Mustard
03-14-2012, 04:22 PM
I think its more like fashion as MN said. Some day a good S&Ver or a couple will come along, people will start to really enjoy watching him/them and the ATP will change surface speeds again.

At the end of the day the ATP is single minded. Whatever generates the most revenue wins. At some point, people will crave S&V and that's when the ATP will change surfaces to bring it back.

I think the surface changes are exaggerated. I mean, Wimbledon changed its grass in September 2001, carpet courts started to be fazed out in 1997 until they disappeared completely after 2006, but I don't think the rest of the tour is much different at all. Some people make out like there were constant net chargers in the 1990s on hardcourts, when that clearly wasn't the case.

kiki
03-14-2012, 04:41 PM
In almost any sport, having a strategy that is counter to the dominant strategy is a big bonus.

Today's generation of baseliners may do well against S&V, because while they were growing up, S&V tennis was still present and taught. So perhaps S&V won't be as effective in today's tennis. But think about 5 years from now. If the kids of that generation are only taught one way to play and that is baseline tennis, then they will have very limited opportunities to develop counter strategies to a S&V player. So if a talented S&Ver were to come along (ala Pete Sampras like), they should do very well, even with the slowed surfaces.

No way, not with these courts and these strings.

Jack Romeo
03-14-2012, 07:21 PM
if there are more fast courts, maybe. but i think players can also develop a more all-court kind of game where they are ready and willing to come in on the first opportunity and knock off volley winners.

Backhanded Compliment
03-14-2012, 07:27 PM
Not everywhere, but there needs to be a place where serve-and-volley players can thrive. Their haven (Wimbledon) has been taken away from them and they've literally been relegated to a small section of the year, a section which many people don't care for (and even indoor hard is getting slow). The courts that were meant to be fast should be sped up.

agreed... variety is what makes tennis interesting

FlashFlare11
03-14-2012, 07:34 PM
agreed... variety is what makes tennis interesting

Exactly. It's not like we can't get tired of watching baseline-baseline rallies either. I wouldn't mind two-three weeks where the players who normally wouldn't have much of a chance at the slower surface tournaments be favorites at a tournament which suits their game much better. Players like Stepanek, Llodra, and Isner deserve chances to shine on surfaces which suit them better.

zcarzach
03-15-2012, 06:07 AM
I think it will make a comeback at some point. In addition to the slower courts and more powerful racquets and strings, the fact is that most people don't try or don't know how to approach properly. They were never taught how, since it isn't rewarded in the current play environment. If someone can learn how to approach properly, with good shots, it is possible.

There has to be the will to learn how, however. Like Pete when he switched from being a junior baseliner to an attacking player. You will lose a few but ultimately can triumph. I don't think the baseliners are all-powerful, they can be beaten.

jdubbs
03-15-2012, 06:36 AM
I think what is more likely is that some players will go against the grain by taking the ball on the rise and not giving their opponents so much time to set up.

It was striking watching Federer play Raonic the other day, where the rallies were relatively short and both players had an attacking style, to the Simon-Harrison match last night with its mindless baseline bashing.

The great players of tomorrow are going to have to make their opponent uncomfortable and not just hit topspin shots in their wheelhouse.

Laurie
03-15-2012, 07:37 AM
In the womens game, Petra Kvitova is trying to do this, which is to get to net as soon as the opportunity arises and as often as possible sometimes. She has great talent but is still a work in progress, that type of game takes longer to mature than the Azarenka type game. Hopefully Kvitova will become very successful and youngsters and coaches will emulate her type of game in future.