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View Full Version : The AO should be played on Har Tru


VOLLEY KING
03-14-2012, 07:51 PM
There should be four distinct surfaces.

The world plays on four Surfaces and they should all be represented at grand slams.

Hartru is not as slow as you think.....the USO was held on Hartru for a period and Connors actually beat Borg on Hartru .

formula16
03-14-2012, 07:52 PM
why dont USO play on Har Tru then?

VOLLEY KING
03-14-2012, 07:54 PM
why dont USO play on Har Tru then?

Because its been hard court for longer. The AO can't seem to get it right.

When rebound ace failed they just copied the USA....even used the same company.

Towser83
03-14-2012, 07:55 PM
har-tru is still clay. might as well play the AO on carpet, no carpet tournaments are left now.

VOLLEY KING
03-14-2012, 07:57 PM
har-tru is still clay. might as well play the AO on carpet, no carpet tournaments are left now.

Carpet Can be made to be extremely slow.

The grandslam should represent surfaces people actually play on. Very few play on carpet .

Towser83
03-14-2012, 08:04 PM
Carpet Can be made to be extremely slow.

The grandslam should represent surfaces people actually play on. Very few play on carpet .

it can be faster than hardcourt. I didn't think har Tru was used that much these days either. Carpet was totally removed from tour a few years back, but it has a fairly rich history within the game and a lot of fans were angry carpet was fazed out.

I mean I don't see the need for a change, but I rather carpet than Har tru. Just my opinion.

gavna
03-14-2012, 08:05 PM
There should be four distinct surfaces.

The world plays on four Surfaces and they should all be represented at grand slams.

Hartru is not as slow as you think.....the USO was held on Hartru for a period and Connors actually beat Borg on Hartru .

Well for decades we only had two surfaces - grass and clay - so the USO should go back to grass as thats what it was for the longest. How many Har Tru courts are there in Oz?????? The world also plays on a lot more than 4 surfaces - you have TennisQuick, the Syn Grass/sand stuff you see in the UK and Oz, Slate courts in the UK, pure Cement.......on and on.

syke
03-14-2012, 11:26 PM
Carpet or Astro Turf for AO...
There's no need for 2 GS hard courts.

I much prefer variety of surfaces..

Paul Murphy
03-15-2012, 04:18 AM
I'm an Australian and I'd be more than happy for it to be changed ..... to a very fast hardcourt.

VOLLEY KING
03-15-2012, 04:39 AM
I'm an Australian and I'd be more than happy for it to be changed ..... to a very fast hardcourt.

Yeah.....but why copy the USA?

Why not have your own individual surface?

The FO is known for representing red clay

Wimbledon is known for grass

The USO is known for its harcourt

And the AO after daily with rebound ace didnt know what to do so they just copied the USA?

Why not have something that as unique as your Kangaroos or kowala bears??

You may not want Har Tru but then why not something else? Something that is your own?

As fan I would love to see a 4th unique surface. If you want fast then why not wood?

Personally I dont think that would be fairness. For a while 3 grand slams were played on grass. That's three fast surfaces . There should be 4 different surfaces with four different speeds.

Hartru is faster than red clay and grass is faster than HC. All
Four surfaces have four different bounces.

The AO is just to similar to the USO.

Paul Murphy
03-15-2012, 04:49 AM
Yeah.....but why copy the USA?

Why not have your own individual surface?

The FO is known for representing red clay

Wimbledon is known for grass

The USO is known for its harcourt

And the AO after daily with rebound ace didnt know what to do so they just copied the USA?

Why not have something that as unique as your Kangaroos or kowala bears??

You may not want Har Tru but then why not something else? Something that is your own?

As fan I would love to see a 4th unique surface. If you want fast then why not wood?

Personally I dont think that would be fairness. For a while 3 grand slams were played on grass. That's three fast surfaces . There should be 4 different surfaces with four different speeds.

Hartru is faster than red clay and grass is faster than HC. All
Four surfaces have four different bounces.

The AO is just to similar to the USO.

I'm not interested in copying the USO in the least - the USO surface is not fast these days.
I'd like a fast surface - the USO, Wimbledon and the FO aren't fast - a fast court AO would be the point of difference you seek.

Paul Murphy
03-15-2012, 04:52 AM
Yeah.....but why copy the USA?

Why not have your own individual surface?

The FO is known for representing red clay

Wimbledon is known for grass

The USO is known for its harcourt

And the AO after daily with rebound ace didnt know what to do so they just copied the USA?

Why not have something that as unique as your Kangaroos or kowala bears??

You may not want Har Tru but then why not something else? Something that is your own?

As fan I would love to see a 4th unique surface. If you want fast then why not wood?

Personally I dont think that would be fairness. For a while 3 grand slams were played on grass. That's three fast surfaces . There should be 4 different surfaces with four different speeds.

Hartru is faster than red clay and grass is faster than HC. All
Four surfaces have four different bounces.

The AO is just to similar to the USO.

Also, as a matter of personal preference I much prefer hardcourt over clay, grass, or anything else one would care to mention with the possible exception of carpet.

pvaudio
03-15-2012, 05:11 AM
Yeah.....but why copy the USA?

Why not have your own individual surface?

The FO is known for representing red clay

Wimbledon is known for grass

The USO is known for its harcourt

And the AO after daily with rebound ace didnt know what to do so they just copied the USA?

Why not have something that as unique as your Kangaroos or kowala bears??

You may not want Har Tru but then why not something else? Something that is your own?

As fan I would love to see a 4th unique surface. If you want fast then why not wood?

Personally I dont think that would be fairness. For a while 3 grand slams were played on grass. That's three fast surfaces . There should be 4 different surfaces with four different speeds.

Hartru is faster than red clay and grass is faster than HC. All
Four surfaces have four different bounces.

The AO is just to similar to the USO.
It's not spelled phonetically.

VOLLEY KING
03-15-2012, 05:23 AM
Also, as a matter of personal preference I much prefer hardcourt over clay, grass, or anything else one would care to mention with the possible exception of carpet.

I prefer hc over everything else as well.....but it's not about what I prefer but rather having four distinct surfaces that would truly represent the greatest player.

Agassi was able to win on four distinct surfaces : rebound ace ,grass,HC, and red clay.

Agassiz achievement may actually be only true career grand slam.....greater than Laver who only won on grass surfaces & clay.

The AO needs to have it's own unique surface .

Bartelby
03-15-2012, 05:33 AM
Both the USO and the AO abandonned their only true tradition - grass.

The AO is cushioned hardcourt and the US is hardcourt, so I think there's a small difference.

In any event, the change accurately reflects the overall dominance of hardcourt.

What's the point of playing on a surface that's rarer just to create a difference?

Bartelby
03-15-2012, 05:35 AM
The AO is also played in indoor/outdoor stadia that serve other purposes, so its impossible for them to be dedicated clay courts.

sdont
03-15-2012, 05:39 AM
Who still plays on HarTru these days?

I bet most players these days actually played their last match on carpet more recently than their last match on HarTru.

VOLLEY KING
03-15-2012, 05:39 AM
Both the USO and the AO abandonned their only true tradition - grass.

The AO is cushioned hardcourt and the US is hardcourt, so I think there's a small difference.

In any event, the change accurately reflects the overall dominance of hardcourt.

What's the point of playing on a surface that's rarer just to create a difference?

I don't think your correct.....clay is played on by more people than grass is and I would say half the world plays on clay.

Most of Europe with the exception of Engalnd plays on clay.
South America mainly plays on clay. The USA plays on both hard and clay.

I would guess that Canada also plays on both . I have no idea about Africa , Australia or the middle east .

But I think clay is far from being "rare".

Half the world plays on clay....in fact it may be the most popular surface in the world yet it's only repped in one GS.

Rebound ace was rare.....and as unique as Australia.

Australia is rare and that's what makes it cool. Simply copying the USA.....is not what Australia is all about.

Murrayfan31
03-15-2012, 05:39 AM
I would love the Australian Open to be on a really fast court. US Open is really a medium court these days.

VOLLEY KING
03-15-2012, 05:43 AM
Who still plays on HarTru these days?

I bet most players these days actually played their last match on carpet more recently than their last match on HarTru.

In the USA it's very popular. It's played on equally as much as hardcourt actually.

Carpet is rare

Bartelby
03-15-2012, 05:44 AM
Clay is not big in Australia, and in some large population centres it is non-existent, but it is big in Europe and the Americas.

Clay is very water-intensive so there's no possibility of the surface developing from its very small, and antiquated, base in Australia.



I don't think your correct.....clay is played on by more people than grass is and I would say half the world plays on clay.

Most of Europe with the exception of Engalnd plays on clay.
South America mainly plays on clay. The USA plays on both hard and clay.

I would guess that Canada also plays on both . I have no idea about Africa , Australia or the middle east .

But I think clay is far from being "rare".

VOLLEY KING
03-15-2012, 05:48 AM
I would love the Australian Open to be on a really fast court. US Open is really a medium court these days.

It's not about making tennis the best for your favorite player.

Furthermore I don't believe the speed of the court would help serve and volley.

Serve and volley ended before the courts were changed . Serve and volley ended with Luxilon strings.

Yanick noah a serve and volleyer beat wilander on red clay . Pancetta another serve and volleyer beat Borg twice at the FO serving and volleying . McEnroe should have won the FO serve and volleying .

So it's not the court but the strings. Get rid of poly and you will have serve and volley tennis back.

VOLLEY KING
03-15-2012, 05:50 AM
Clay is not big in Australia, and in some large population centres it is non-existent, but it is big in Europe and the Americas.

Clay is very water-intensive so there's no possibility of the surface developing from its very small, and antiquated, base in Australia.

Whoa!!! I don't agree at all. At least not in NYC.

There are at least as many clay courts here if not more than hard court.....I'm talking about private clubs.

Public parks are all hard court because they are cheaper that's true.

Although in NYC we have plenty of parks with clay actually.

Murrayfan31
03-15-2012, 05:50 AM
It's not about making tennis the best for your favorite player.

Furthermore I don't believe the speed of the court would help serve and volley.

Serve and volley ended before the courts were changed . Serve and volley ended with Luxilon strings.

Yanick noah a serve and volleyer beat wilander on red clay . Pancetta another serve and volleyer beat Borg twice at the FO serving and volleying . McEnroe should have won the FO serve and volleying .

So it's not the court but the strings. Get rid of poly and you will have serve and volley tennis back.
Not necessarily looking for serve and volley. I'm just tired of these players getting rewarded for heavy topspin. The courts in Cincinnati would be ideal speed for me.

sdont
03-15-2012, 05:56 AM
In the USA it's very popular. It's played on equally as much as hardcourt actually.

Carpet is rare

I meant tour players. Most top players are European these days and I don't know how many of them play the odd 250 tournament on HarTru in the USA.

Btw, the ATP reference it as a 'clay' tournament and doesn't make the difference with red clay.

VOLLEY KING
03-15-2012, 06:02 AM
Not necessarily looking for serve and volley. I'm just tired of these players getting rewarded for heavy topspin. The courts in Cincinnati would be ideal speed for me.

Djokovic and Federer are not heavy topspin.

If you are referring to Nadal I don't really think that's the reason he won the USO or Wimbledon.

On fast grass a guy by the name of Bjorn Borg I think won Wimbledon like 5 times? His game was similar to Nadal. And he also made the finals of the USO a billion times.

Wilander actually won the USO on a fast hardcourt and so did Vilas.
And others ......

On the other hand Connors beat Borg at the USO on Hartru and Soderling beat Nadal on red clay.

Pannetta beat Borg 2x on red clay......

I don't think speeding up the surface would make a difference.....but taking away polyester from Nadal would be far more devastating than the surface.

VOLLEY KING
03-15-2012, 06:05 AM
I meant tour players. Most top players are European these days and I don't know how many of them play the odd 250 tournament on HarTru in the USA.

Btw, the ATP reference it as a 'clay' tournament and doesn't make the difference with red clay.

Trust me they are very different .

In fact indoors Har Tru is actually pretty fast .....even possibly faster than some very slow hard courts.

It's hard to compare.....the bounce on Har Tru is just unique. It's different than other surfaces .

phnx90
03-15-2012, 06:09 AM
Djokovic and Federer are not heavy topspin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeZjBFyDnSo

I beg to differ

Gorecki
03-15-2012, 06:10 AM
i agree. they should change AO to a surface that suits San Rafael better

VOLLEY KING
03-15-2012, 06:11 AM
I actually think Har Tru would benefit Federer the most .

Hartru is unique .....it's somewhere I'm between hard and red clay .

But it's not just the speed the bounce is different so it's hard to compare .

Remember that Connors beat Borg on Hartru......

Djokovics ground strokes would not be as big and Nadals topspin would not bounce as high as on red clay.

Hartru for Federer would be like the porridge for goldilocks an the three bears ...... "just right"

VOLLEY KING
03-15-2012, 06:12 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeZjBFyDnSo

I beg to differ

Polyester .....take away the poly .....problem solved.

phnx90
03-15-2012, 06:15 AM
I've never played on Har Tru, what is it like?

If it plays like the AO surface as it is, but clay, then they might as well; if they're going to slow down the surface that much, they might as well help out the players by installing a more knee-friendly surface. My toes curl whenever Djokovic does one of those stretch-slide gets.

Polyester .....take away the poly .....problem solved.
Wow, so simple!

VOLLEY KING
03-15-2012, 06:17 AM
Remember also that the FO clay is unique.....they have a formula for what they put in there and it's a secret. We know it's crushed brick but we don't know the exact mixture .

The footing is difficult as well as the bounce. Fed beat Nadal on clay just not at the FO.

Sampras won the Italian Open.

Connors beat Borg on Har Tru.

I'm telling you joker and Nadal would have a tough time .

VOLLEY KING
03-15-2012, 06:22 AM
I've never played on Har Tru, what is it like?

If it plays like the AO surface as it is, but clay, then they might as well; if they're going to slow down the surface that much, they might as well help out the players by installing a more knee-friendly surface. My toes curl whenever Djokovic does one of those stretch-slide gets.


Wow, so simple!

Hartru is unique . It's difficult to describe.

It's not simply the speed....it bounces much lower than red clay.

The ball also bounces differently than a hard court. In fact I would say that the ball bounces higher on a hard court than Hartru .

That's why I say it would help Federer out.

You also do not slide nearly as much as red clay .....but more than a HC obviously.

It's unique

phnx90
03-15-2012, 06:27 AM
Hartru is unique . It's difficult to describe.

It's not simply the speed....it bounces much lower than red clay.

The ball also bounces differently than a hard court. In fact I would say that the ball bounces higher on a hard court than Hartru .

That's why I say it would help Federer out.

You also do not slide nearly as much as red clay .....but more than a HC obviously.

It's unique

So what you're saying is that it's basically the clay version of Plexicushion, but lower bouncing and better for the knees?

If that's so, I can kinda see where you're coming from...AO surface is just terrible.

VOLLEY KING
03-15-2012, 06:29 AM
I guess the best way to describe Hartru is
"diet red clay"....lol.

It's similar in that they are both clay but the bounce is not quite as high, the speed is not quite as slow and the footing is not quite as difficult

Does that make sense?

It would neutralize a lot of Nadals advantages.

People tend to over simplify and say "fast court". I don't think that is the problem at all .

It's also the bounce of the ball.....I think Har Tru is "just right" for fed ....bounce is right height and speed is fast enough to help him but not to slow to help Nadal.

sdont
03-15-2012, 06:33 AM
Trust me they are very different .

In fact indoors Har Tru is actually pretty fast .....even possibly faster than some very slow hard courts.

It's hard to compare.....the bounce on Har Tru is just unique. It's different than other surfaces .

I'm not saying it's the same surface. It's just a different variety of clay, just like the USO and the AO are played on different varieties of HC.

VOLLEY KING
03-15-2012, 06:33 AM
Not all clay is created equal.

Fed has beaten Nadal on clay just not at the FO.

Not all grass is created equal either and neither is all hardcourts.

I really think Federer has the advantage on Hartru over both Joker and Nadal.

phnx90
03-15-2012, 06:33 AM
I guess the best way to describe Hartru is
"diet red clay"....lol.

It's similar in that they are both clay but the bounce is not quite as high, the speed is not quite as slow and the footing is not quite as difficult

Does that make sense?

It would neutralize a lot of Nadals advantages.

People tend to over simplify and say "fast court". I don't think that is the problem at all .

It's also the bounce of the ball.....I think Har Tru is "just right" for fed ....bounce is right height and speed is fast enough to help him but not to slow to help Nadal.

So basically, fast, firm and slick clay, no?

And probably most importantly, less of a health hazard than HC.

GS
03-15-2012, 06:41 AM
The Aussies should lay down a carpet of artificial grass in Melbourne---they could adjust its speed with sand. Then they'd have a nice 4th surface. Rod Laver himself might even approve of this.
But, will this ever happen? Nope.

Murrayfan31
03-15-2012, 06:45 AM
So basically, fast, firm and slick clay, no?

And probably most importantly, less of a health hazard than HC.
Basically what Wimbledon is now since 2006. ;)

VOLLEY KING
03-15-2012, 06:50 AM
Basically what Wimbledon is now since 2006. ;)

LOL.....not quite.

Hartru is just different . For example Feds slice backhand is far more devastating on Har Tru than grass. His spin would just die on Nadal who's biggest weakness is the drop shot.

Gorecki
03-15-2012, 07:04 AM
they have a formula for what they put in there and it's a secret

Pemberton recipe

This recipe is attributed to a diary owned by Coca-Cola inventor, John S. Pemberton, just before his death in 1888. (U.S. measures).[17][18]
Ingredients: 1 oz (28 g) caffeine citrate
3 oz (85 g) citric acid
1 US fl oz (30 ml) vanilla extract
1 US qt (946 ml; 33 imp fl oz) lime juice
2.5 oz (71 g) "flavoring," i.e., "Merchandise 7X"
30 lb (14 kg) sugar
4 US fl oz (118.3 ml) powder extract of cocaine (decocainized flavor essence of the coca leaf).
2.5 US gal (9.5 l; 2.1 imp gal) water
caramel sufficient

"Mix caffeine acid and lime juice in 1 quart boiling water add vanilla and flavoring when cool."
Flavoring (Merchandise 7X): 1 qrt alcohol
80 oil orange
40 oil cinnamon
120 oil lemon
20 oil coriander
40 oil nutmeg
40 oil neroli

"Let stand 24 hours."

BevelDevil
03-15-2012, 02:23 PM
They can copy the Philippines and play on crushed shells.

Timbo's hopeless slice
03-15-2012, 02:34 PM
I have never played on HAr-Tru in my life, lol. Never even seen it. I do, however, play on the AO surface every day and love it. Thing is, the AO organisers redo it every year, and specify teh slowest version of plexicushion. Our club has a much faster grade and it's a fantastic surface.

However, I actually feel the AO version is distinctly different from the other three slams, and therefore no bad thing.

jackson vile
03-15-2012, 02:37 PM
They can copy the Philippines and play on crushed shells.

Wow, I wonder what that would be like. Any photos?

Biscuitmcgriddleson
03-15-2012, 03:26 PM
I have never played on HAr-Tru in my life, lol. Never even seen it. I do, however, play on the AO surface every day and love it. Thing is, the AO organisers redo it every year, and specify teh slowest version of plexicushion. Our club has a much faster grade and it's a fantastic surface.

However, I actually feel the AO version is distinctly different from the other three slams, and therefore no bad thing.

I'd love to see them accidentally get the fast stuff and have something similar to Paris in 2010.

OrangePower
03-15-2012, 03:30 PM
There should be four distinct surfaces.

The world plays on four Surfaces and they should all be represented at grand slams.

Hartru is not as slow as you think.....the USO was held on Hartru for a period and Connors actually beat Borg on Hartru .

Carpet Can be made to be extremely slow.

The grandslam should represent surfaces people actually play on. Very few play on carpet .

Agreed. AO should be completely indoor, court surface similar to WTF. Many parts of the world play exclusively indoor during winter on similar surface (Canada, USA NE and other parts, northern Europe, etc). AO is played during northern hemi winter, so would be easy for viewers to identify with. Plus, would solve the Australian summer heat problem.

I'm sure you agree. Unless of course you're a Rafa fan just looking to add another clay major for your boy.

VOLLEY KING
03-15-2012, 05:21 PM
Agreed. AO should be completely indoor, court surface similar to WTF. Many parts of the world play exclusively indoor during winter on similar surface (Canada, USA NE and other parts, northern Europe, etc). AO is played during northern hemi winter, so would be easy for viewers to identify with. Plus, would solve the Australian summer heat problem.

I'm sure you agree. Unless of course you're a Rafa fan just looking to add another clay major for your boy.

Actually I completely agree.

.

Paul Murphy
03-16-2012, 12:47 AM
The Aussies should lay down a carpet of artificial grass in Melbourne---they could adjust its speed with sand. Then they'd have a nice 4th surface. Rod Laver himself might even approve of this.
But, will this ever happen? Nope.

Artificial grass is a dreadful surface.
Nice for the elderly perhaps but there's a reason it's not used in pro tennis - it's rubbish.

timnz
03-16-2012, 01:33 AM
Har tru would mean a surface speed increase from the present australian open surface.

monfed
03-16-2012, 01:52 AM
No, just bring back Rebound Ace.

nadalwon2012
03-16-2012, 02:14 AM
The Australian Open isn't worth as much as the other slams. There is no stopping that perception.

Tennis_Hands
03-16-2012, 02:23 AM
The Australian Open isn't worth as much as the other slams. There is no stopping that perception.

At the moment it is one of the four most important tennis tournaments.

What does your remark has to do with the topic of this thread?

EDIT: My remark has to do with someone, who is trying to derail YET another potentially interesting thread.

nadalwon2012
03-16-2012, 02:37 AM
At the moment it is one of the four most important tennis tournaments.

What does your remark has to do with the topic of this thread?

And what does your remark have to do with the topic of this thread?

Looks like a clear case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Look like you've derailed the thread even further tennis_hands. Bravo.

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 02:50 AM
Har tru would mean a surface speed increase from the present australian open surface.

LOL....I don't think there would be that big of a difference between the two actually as far as speed.......

.but I do think the ball bounces lower on Har Tru than the AO ...so if there is a difference in speed it would be made up in a lower bouncing ball. Nadals shots would not be quite as effective.

I think there's a reason Nadal got killed by the Joker at the USO but went five sets at the AO.

nadalwon2012
03-16-2012, 02:58 AM
LOL....I don't think there would be that big of a difference between the two actually as far as speed.......

.but I do think the ball bounces lower on Har Tru than the AO ...so if there is a difference in speed it would be made up in a lower bouncing ball. Nadals shots would not be quite as effective.

I think there's a reason Nadal got killed by the Joker at the USO but went five sets at the AO.

Or the fact that as Nadal said before the US Open, he couldn't train after Wimbledon (because of the foot-injury he suffered vs Del Potro at Wimbledon) and will not be ready physically for the US Open but will try his best. He tried his best, but ran out of stamina because he had not been able to train at a crucial time.

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 03:08 AM
Or the fact that as Nadal said before the US Open, he couldn't train after Wimbledon (because of the foot-injury he suffered vs Del Potro at Wimbledon) and will not be ready physically for the US Open but will try his best. He tried his best, but ran out of stamina because he had not been able to train at a crucial time.

I never bought into Feds injury excuses nor do I buy into Nadals.

I think it's lame

Tennis_Hands
03-16-2012, 03:17 AM
And what does your remark have to do with the topic of this thread?

Looks like a clear case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Look like you've derailed the thread even further tennis_hands. Bravo.

Facepalm.


Ontopic:

@OP

How about those bounces? How about the footwork?

How are they on Har-Tru?

Paul Murphy
03-16-2012, 03:46 AM
The Australian Open isn't worth as much as the other slams. There is no stopping that perception.

And this comment is relevant to a debate about the surface how?

Gorecki
03-16-2012, 04:04 AM
And what does your remark have to do with the topic of this thread?

Looks like a clear case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Look like you've derailed the thread even further tennis_hands. Bravo.

Stick to the topic please :)

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 04:09 AM
Pemberton recipe

This recipe is attributed to a diary owned by Coca-Cola inventor, John S. Pemberton, just before his death in 1888. (U.S. measures).[17][18]
Ingredients: 1 oz (28 g) caffeine citrate
3 oz (85 g) citric acid
1 US fl oz (30 ml) vanilla extract
1 US qt (946 ml; 33 imp fl oz) lime juice
2.5 oz (71 g) "flavoring," i.e., "Merchandise 7X"
30 lb (14 kg) sugar
4 US fl oz (118.3 ml) powder extract of cocaine (decocainized flavor essence of the coca leaf).
2.5 US gal (9.5 l; 2.1 imp gal) water
caramel sufficient

"Mix caffeine acid and lime juice in 1 quart boiling water add vanilla and
flavoring when cool."
Flavoring (Merchandise 7X): 1 qrt alcohol
80 oil orange
40 oil cinnamon
120 oil lemon
20 oil coriander
40 oil nutmeg
40 oil neroli

"Let stand 24 hours."

Yes please. :-)

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 04:20 AM
Facepalm.


Ontopic:

@OP

How about those bounces? How about the footwork?

How are they on Har-Tru?

Bounces lower than hc or red clay....no clue in regards to grass....


Hartru can be very fast.....indoors inside a bubble when it's cold outside I swear it's faster than a hard court. The ball skids and stays low...it's as hard as a rock under those conditions. Outdoors in the heat....very different...

If it's packed real tight possibly with a thin layer of hartru on top I think it could be extremely fast outdoors as well.

I notice in public parks where people play all day if the top layer is thin the court plays very fast especially at night. It's plays differently under different
climate conditions.

I think you can change the speeds depending on how much Hartru you use.
Again if it's thin it seems very fast with quite a low bounce.


Footwork is more slippery than hc but less slippery than red clay.
You do slide but not even close to red clay.

I can't compare to grass because Ive only played on grass 2x.......hated it by the way.


Hartru is a lot faster than red clay with a much lower bounce.

Gorecki
03-16-2012, 04:26 AM
Yes please. :-)

it's the secret recepie of FO clay.

at least i was told so!

it's well within the topic

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 04:30 AM
To get an idea of HarTru here is a video of the 1976 US open between Connors and Borg.

You will see a bit of sliding but not nearly as much as clay.

The surface is harder than red clay and I think you will notice that the ball doesn't bounce nearly as high as on red clay.

Connors by the way beat Borg to win that us open :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NuNJWDPFNM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

.

Tennis_Hands
03-16-2012, 04:35 AM
Bounces lower than hc or red clay....no clue in regards to grass....


Hartru can be very fast.....indoors inside a bubble when it's cold outside I swear it's faster than a hard court. The ball skids and stays low...it's as hard as a rock under those conditions. Outdoors in the heat....very different...

If it's packed real tight possibly with a thin layer of hartru on top I think it could be extremely fast outdoors as well.

I notice in public parks where people play all day if the top layer is thin the court plays very fast especially at night. It's plays differently under different
climate conditions.

I think you can change the speeds depending on how much Hartru you use.
Again if it's thin it seems very fast with quite a low bounce.


Footwork is more slippery than hc but less slippery than red clay.
You do slide but not even close to red clay.

I can't compare to grass because Ive only played on grass 2x.......hated it by the way.


Hartru is a lot faster than red clay with a much lower bounce.

I was thinking more about the trueness of the bounce.

Har-Tru resembles much more red clay, than hard courts in terms of footwork. On grass you absolutely do not want to slide or slip.

tusharlovesrafa
03-16-2012, 04:39 AM
it's the secret recepie of FO clay.

at least i was told so!

it's well within the topic
pORTUGESE people are so annoying..Other day i created a thread regarding "Internet Speeds,name of ISP's and their tariffs" in odds and end section and there was some one from portugal,We had a casual conversion where i told him that I am on 2 MBps internet connection speed and he told me that I am 400 MBps internet connection speed,and then he was like,"OH GOD,YOU HAVE GOT SO SLOW SPEEDS THAT I HAD 13 YEARS AGO...JUst LOOK AT US,HOW ADVANCED WE ARE..WE ARE MOST "TECH" ADVANCED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD..I CAN EVEN BOOK MY TICKET FROM MY SMART PHONE WHICH IS CONNECTED TO OUR VERY ADVANCED ATM SYSTEM"....
AND I WAS LIKE ...:shock:

Gorecki
03-16-2012, 04:40 AM
pORTUGESE people are so annoying..Other day i created a thread regarding "Internet Speeds,name of ISP's and their tariffs" in odds and end section and there was some one from portugal,We had a casual conversion where i told him that I am on 2 MBps connection and he told me that I am 400 MBps connection,and then he was like,"OH GOD,YOU HAVE GOT SO SLOW SPEEDS THAT I HAD 13 YEARS AGO...JUst LOOK AT US,HOW ADVANCED WE ARE..WE ARE MOST "TECH" ADVANCED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD..I CAN EVEN BOOK MY TICKET FROM MY SMART PHONE WHICH IS CONNECTED TO OUR VERY ADVANCED ATM SYSTEM"....
AND I WAS LIKE ...:shock:

stick to the topic and please refrain from posting Racist Slurr

tusharlovesrafa
03-16-2012, 04:45 AM
stick to the topic and please refrain from posting Racist Slurr

LOL>>..that's not racist slurr..Just giving you an example..:)
I have seen your COCA COLA RECIPE..i know how much you stick to topics..:twisted:

Gorecki
03-16-2012, 04:58 AM
LOL>>..that's not racist slurr..Just giving you an example..:)
I have seen your COCA COLA RECIPE..i know how much you stick to topics..:twisted:

it was racist and it was an ofensive generalization towards the people of my country.

i know it's not the first time you post your anti-Portuguese racist remarks, so if you maintain them, i will have to report you.

as far as me sticking to the topic, i was told by a good source that Volley King is correct about FO having a secret recipie for the clay. and that recipie i posted is the one i was told by a girl with a laptop (clarcky's edentity will remain undisclosed), to be the mentioned recipie.

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 05:11 AM
I was thinking more about the trueness of the bounce.

Har-Tru resembles much more red clay, than hard courts in terms of footwork. On grass you absolutely do not want to slide or slip.

Well it depends on how much Hartru you put on as far as the trueness of the bounce.

Most clubs try and save money and don't put a lit of hartru on the top surface . I
Actually like it this way because it plays very fast and the bounce is much truer.

Even when there is a thick amount of Hartru it doesn't last long .

If you notice the Connors Borg match video the court is unbelievably beaten up. That's what happens with Hartru. It just gets packed and very solid as a may h wears on.

But yes there is more sliding than a HC for sure .....but way less than a hardcourt.

By the way grass is extremely slippery . The difference is that on grass they allow you to wear grass court sneakers.

On clay I actually wear grass court sneakers as well to stop myself from sliding .i got the idea from Andre Agassi who did it at the FO . They stopped him
However from using grass court sneakers on a clay court and made them illegal. :-(.

Grass court sneakers on a hard court allow you to pivot and push off. You move faster! I love it!!! Playing on Hartru with grass court sneakers is a dream.

You get all the benefits of a HC but None of the minuses playing this way.

By the way the Yonex clay court sneakers are almost like a grass court sneaker.....but I just buy the Fila Wimbledon grass court ones.

nadalwon2012
03-16-2012, 05:34 AM
Stick to the topic please :)

Looks like a clear case of the pot calling the kettle black.

nadalwon2012
03-16-2012, 05:36 AM
And this comment is relevant to a debate about the surface how?

I will ask you the same- and this comment is relevant to a debate about the surface how?

Tennis_Hands
03-16-2012, 06:10 AM
Well it depends on how much Hartru you put on as far as the trueness of the bounce.

Most clubs try and save money and don't put a lit of hartru on the top surface . I
Actually like it this way because it plays very fast and the bounce is much truer.


Untrue bounces are part of the tennis on Har-Tru, then. Which type of players do you reckon that will affect most positively/negatively?




But yes there is more sliding than a HC for sure .....but way less than a hardcourt.

I reckon you mean "less than on a clay court". But this is rather subjective and I still do not think, that Har-Tru is closer to hardcourt than to red clay in terms of movement. Actually, I think that the opposite is true.


But, to refer to your original idea.

As far as your claims, that the surface of the Majors should somehow refelect the popularity of the surfaces, shouldn't you actually be asking this very question about the Har-Tru about the US Open, instead of AO?

On a more practical note and as seen by that part of your post:

Even when there is a thick amount of Hartru it doesn't last long .

If you notice the Connors Borg match video the court is unbelievably beaten up. That's what happens with Hartru. It just gets packed and very solid as a may h wears on.

Har-Tru is much more difficult to maintain than a hardcourt. From the experience with Wimbledon I know, that I prefer to watch tennis on a surface, that remains constant throughout the tournament.

Anyway, I believe previous posters have stated, that Har-Tru as a surface is not more suitable for AO, than the current surface.

Sentinel
03-16-2012, 06:26 AM
i agree. they should change AO to a surface that suits San Rafael better
But wouldn't that suit San Novak even better !?

nadalwon2012
03-16-2012, 06:29 AM
Gorecki is new to tennis. Thinks Nadal is a hardcourt specialist....

tusharlovesrafa
03-16-2012, 06:46 AM
it was racist and it was an ofensive generalization towards the people of my country.

i know it's not the first time you post your anti-Portuguese racist remarks, so if you maintain them, i will have to report you.
as far as me sticking to the topic, i was told by a good source that Volley King is correct about FO having a secret recipie for the clay. and that recipie i posted is the one i was told by a girl with a laptop (clarcky's edentity will remain undisclosed), to be the mentioned recipie.

I know i am racist,in addition to that I am a baby sacrificer too and I workship SATAN also...:)

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 06:49 AM
Untrue bounces are part of the tennis on Har-Tru, then. Which type of players do you reckon that will affect most positively/negatively?


I reckon you mean "less than on a clay court". But this is rather subjective and I still do not think, that Har-Tru is closer to hardcourt than to red clay in terms of movement. Actually, I think that the opposite is true.

But, to refer to your original idea.

As far as your claims, that the surface of the Majors should somehow refelect the popularity of the surfaces, shouldn't you actually be asking this very question about the Har-Tru about the US Open, instead of AO?

On a more practical note and as seen by that part of your post:

Har-Tru is much more difficult to maintain than a hardcourt. From the experience with Wimbledon I know, that I prefer to watch tennis on a surface, that remains constant throughout the tournament.

Anyway, I believe previous posters have stated, that Har-Tru as a surface is not more suitable for AO, than the current surface.

1- I think hartru would help Federer the most. Federer beats nadal even on red clay. He just cant beat Nadal at the FO. The FO is insanely slow.....the ball his hitting a ton of crushed brick.....which not only slows the ball down unbelievably but also slides like crazy. Firthermore the ball does not bounce nearly as high on har tru and actually stays quite low. nadals topspin to feds backhand would be greatly hurt

Agaisnt Djokovic on the other hand who has the greatest serve returns I have ever seen....Federer woul be greatly helped out. feds serves would stay low but Jokers return would not be as fast. Same holds true for Jokers groundstrokes which would be a tad less penetrating.

HarTru is fast in the right places and slower in the right places . its just right for Fed...tailor made for his game. His slice bacjhand would be just sick.

2- popularity of surfaces.....The US Open has been played on hardcourt since the 70's. I dont think it would be fair for them to have to change that tradition because the AO copied them.

3- Hartru was invented for its ease of maintaining. Its MUCH faster drying than red clay.....not even close. Its not very difficult to maintain at all.

Gorecki
03-16-2012, 07:01 AM
Gorecki is new to tennis. Thinks Nadal is a hardcourt specialist....

stick to topic. this thread is not about what i think of nadal.


further more Har-tru is not Hard courts

FYI :

Green clay

Har-Tru or "American" clay, is similar to red clay, the differences being that it is slightly harder and faster. Green clay is packed to make the subsurface. It is then covered with a topping. These clay courts can be found in all 50 of the United States but are located primarily in the Eastern and Southern states. In parts of the gulf coast region of the Southeast, green clay courts are often referred to as "rubico". There is one WTA tournament played on green Har-Tru clay courts in 2011; the Family Circle Cup in Charleston, South Carolina. Earlier there was also the MPS Group Championships in Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida, but that tournament ended in 2010.

jean pierre
03-16-2012, 07:06 AM
Djokovic and Federer are not heavy topspin.

If you are referring to Nadal I don't really think that's the reason he won the USO or Wimbledon.

On fast grass a guy by the name of Bjorn Borg I think won Wimbledon like 5 times? His game was similar to Nadal. And he also made the finals of the USO a billion times.

Wilander actually won the USO on a fast hardcourt and so did Vilas.
And others ......

On the other hand Connors beat Borg at the USO on Hartru and Soderling beat Nadal on red clay.

Pannetta beat Borg 2x on red clay......

I don't think speeding up the surface would make a difference.....but taking away polyester from Nadal would be far more devastating than the surface.


Wilander won USO on hardcourt, but Vilas won it on green clay, which was faster than european clay. But both of them won AO on grass.

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 07:10 AM
stick to topic. this thread is not about what i think of nadal.


further more Har-tru is not Hard courts

FYI :

Green clay

Har-Tru or "American" clay, is similar to red clay, the differences being that it is slightly harder and faster. Green clay is packed to make the subsurface. It is then covered with a topping. These clay courts can be found in all 50 of the United States but are located primarily in the Eastern and Southern states. In parts of the gulf coast region of the Southeast, green clay courts are often referred to as "rubico". There is one WTA tournament played on green Har-Tru clay courts in 2011; the Family Circle Cup in Charleston, South Carolina. Earlier there was also the MPS Group Championships in Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida, but that tournament ended in 2010.

exactly...no one said they are hardcourts.

But if you notice they are faster and harder than red clay courts.

They can be made to be VERY fast by the amount of topping put on and they get faster as the match goes on.

They are called "HAR-TRU"......because they are hard.....not soft like
red clay .

The bounce is lower and the speed just right for Fed.

Gorecki
03-16-2012, 07:14 AM
exactly...no one said they are hardcourts.

But if you notice they are faster and harder than red clay courts.

They can be made to be VERY fast by the amount of topping put on and they get faster as the match goes on.

They are called "HAR-TRU"......because they are hard.....not soft like
red clay .

The bounce is lower and the speed just right for Fed.

wrong. Nadalwon2012 did.

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 07:19 AM
wrong. Nadalwon2012 did.

???????

.

Gorecki
03-16-2012, 07:26 AM
Gorecki is new to tennis. Thinks Nadal is a hardcourt specialist....

???????

.

still in doubt?

i'll explain:

1 - If i say Nadal would get favoured with the change to Har-tru, it means i think (scratch that, i know) it is a form of clay, (faster or not, it's not the issue here)

2 - If Nadalwon2012 says that i "think" Nadal is a Hardcourt specialist, it means he thinks Har-tru is a form of hard-court.

got it?

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 07:46 AM
no still no idea what your talking about. but truthfully....lets just move on

Paul Murphy
03-16-2012, 07:57 AM
I will ask you the same- and this comment is relevant to a debate about the surface how?

Do you set out to be a simpleton or does it just come naturally?

The merits of the AO have nothing whatsoever to do with a reasonable and interesting discussion about the surface.

Problem is ... I'm not sure you're smart enough to know that, poor fella.

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 08:05 AM
Do you set out to be a simpleton or does it just come naturally?

The merits of the AO have nothing whatsoever to do with a reasonable and interesting discussion about the surface.

Problem is ... I'm not sure you're smart enough to know that, poor fella.

he just enjoys watching people get angry. Dont bother

Tennis_Hands
03-16-2012, 08:16 AM
1- I think hartru would help Federer the most. Federer beats nadal even on red clay. He just cant beat Nadal at the FO. The FO is insanely slow.....the ball his hitting a ton of crushed brick.....which not only slows the ball down unbelievably but also slides like crazy. Firthermore the ball does not bounce nearly as high on har tru and actually stays quite low. nadals topspin to feds backhand would be greatly hurt

Agaisnt Djokovic on the other hand who has the greatest serve returns I have ever seen....Federer woul be greatly helped out. feds serves would stay low but Jokers return would not be as fast. Same holds true for Jokers groundstrokes which would be a tad less penetrating.

HarTru is fast in the right places and slower in the right places . its just right for Fed...tailor made for his game. His slice bacjhand would be just sick.

2- popularity of surfaces.....The US Open has been played on hardcourt since the 70's. I dont think it would be fair for them to have to change that tradition because the AO copied them.

3- Hartru was invented for its ease of maintaining. Its MUCH faster drying than red clay.....not even close. Its not very difficult to maintain at all.

1. You keep on talking about Djokovic, Nadal and Federer. That is not what this discussion should be AT ALL. At least you did not specify that in your OP. You probably know, that IF such a change should happen, it will not be in the near future, so, to speculate, who from the current top players will benefit mostly from such a change, is pointless.


2. Moreover, you did not answer my questions in principle. That should give some perspective on your thoughts about the surfaces we are comparing.

3. The behaviour of the ball depends on so many factors, that your thoughts on that matter are completely speculative.

4. About which surface should be changed - I was just following your initial ideas, that the surface should reflect the surfaces, that are mostly used in the respective countries. I am not familiar, whether there are many courts with Har-Tru in Australia, but someone mentioned, that the surface is not very popular (or something to that effect) as a whole. On another note, if you go by the history, you should choose US Open and not AO for Har-Tru.

5. I do not know, why you are comparing Har-Tru to red clay for the ease of the maintenance. We are comparing Har-Tru to hardcourts, and in that area hardcourts win hands down.

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 08:23 AM
1. You keep on talking about Djokovic, Nadal and Federer. That is not what this discussion should be AT ALL. At least you did not specify that in your OP. You probably know, that IF such a change should happen, it will not be in the near future, so, to speculate, who from the current top players will benefit mostly from such a change, is pointless.


2. Moreover, you did not answer my questions in principle. That should give some perspective on your thoughts about the surfaces we are comparing.

3. The behaviour of the ball depends on so many factors, that your thoughts on that matter are completely speculative.

4. About which surface should be changed - I was just following your initial ideas, that the surface should reflect the surfaces, that are mostly used in the respective countries. I am not familiar, whether there are many courts with Har-Tru in Australia, but someone mentioned, that the surface is not very popular (or something to that effect) as a whole. On another note, if you go by the history, you should choose US Open and not AO for Har-Tru.

5. I do not know, why you are comparing Har-Tru to red clay for the ease of the maintenance. We are comparing Har-Tru to hardcourts, and in that area hardcourts win hands down.

1- ah yes but there is an "elephant in the room"....Im just talking about it. lets be honest .....most people on this board are Federer fans. Every discussion about court speed is actually about Federer.

So lets not pretend. Im saying that speeding up surfaces will not necessarily help Federer but rather Hartru woul. Its just the right speed for him. Its not to slow and not to fast with the right height of the ball bounce for him.

2- im sorry I dont know what you mean

3- Yes they are speculative. Its what I think from playing on hartru for many years.

4- I meant the grandslam should represent the most popular surfaces.
hard court and red clay are by far the most popular. Next is grass and Har Tru.

5- Yes Hard courts are easier to maintain....but not by all that much. HarTru was invented partially for its ease of maintenance. Its not a big deal....certainly not even close to red clay

celoft
03-16-2012, 08:25 AM
No way. It should be played on fast HC.

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 08:28 AM
No way. It should be played on fast HC.

OK but Federer would lose. He won on slow hard courts and lost to guys laike rafter on fast ones...badly

celoft
03-16-2012, 08:38 AM
OK but Federer would lose. He won on slow hard courts and lost to guys laike rafter on fast ones...badly

They should speed up USO as well.

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 09:18 AM
They should speed up USO as well.

Then Fed would lose both the AO and USO in my opinion .

Fed won the AO on rebound ace but lost on HC

Fed also won the USO on slower hard courts rather than the old fast ones.

Tennis_Hands
03-16-2012, 11:29 AM
1- ah yes but there is an "elephant in the room"....Im just talking about it. lets be honest .....most people on this board are Federer fans. Every discussion about court speed is actually about Federer.

Oh, dear. That is YOUR thread. If you are obsessed with Federer, that is a whole new subject.


2- im sorry I dont know what you mean

I mean those questions:

Untrue bounces are part of the tennis on Har-Tru, then. Which type of players do you reckon that will affect most positively/negatively?



3- Yes they are speculative. Its what I think from playing on hartru for many years.

speculative =/= subjective


4- I meant the grandslam should represent the most popular surfaces.
hard court and red clay are by far the most popular. Next is grass and Har Tru.

No. I believe what you said was

There should be four distinct surfaces.

And, no way Har-Tru could be considered a more distant surface to red clay, than, for example, carpet is to hardcourt.


5- Yes Hard courts are easier to maintain....but not by all that much. HarTru was invented partially for its ease of maintenance. Its not a big deal....certainly not even close to red clay

"But not by much". That is your personal assessment, I believe. Have you maintained these types of courts or do you have any considerable knowledge with how much the respective maintenance costs?

Anyway, you agreed with several posters, that carpet, artificial grass or even wood would be OK for a surface at AO, but then went on to brag about, how great Har-Tru really is for Federer (?!?).

You have been told by a fellow poster, that he plays regularly on the surface at the AO, loves it and finds no problem with it, but you are still looking for a problem, where there probably isn't one.

You prefer not to address the issues with the surface, because they might contradict your line of thinking.

And, for your information, Federer has done well enough on the old and the new surface of the AO. The surface is not his problem. You are trying to come across as a poster, who is not biased. You should try different tactic, because I do not think, that the one you display is effective.

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 12:36 PM
Oh, dear. That is YOUR thread. If you are obsessed with Federer, that is a whole new subject.


I mean those questions:


speculative =/= subjective


No. I believe what you said was

And, no way Har-Tru could be considered a more distant surface to red clay, than, for example, carpet is to hardcourt.

"But not by much". That is your personal assessment, I believe. Have you maintained these types of courts or do you have any considerable knowledge with how much the respective maintenance costs?

Anyway, you agreed with several posters, that carpet, artificial grass or even wood would be OK for a surface at AO, but then went on to brag about, how great Har-Tru really is for Federer (?!?).

You have been told by a fellow poster, that he plays regularly on the surface at the AO, loves it and finds no problem with it, but you are still looking for a problem, where there probably isn't one.

You prefer not to address the issues with the surface, because they might contradict your line of thinking.

And, for your information, Federer has done well enough on the old and the new surface of the AO. The surface is not his problem. You are trying to come across as a poster, who is not biased. You should try different tactic, because I do not think, that the one you display is effective.


1- Im not obsessed this board is. The real reason they want to see fast courts is they want federer to win. Nothing wrong with that but lets call a spade a spade.

2-Thanks I mean subjective. My opinions are subjective because I am quite familiar with the surface. If you have not played on it then your opinions would actually be speculative.

3- both statements are true and are not exclusive, I believe that the grandslams should be four distinct different surfaces and they should also represent the most popular surfaces played on.

4- I do have knowledge about playing and maintaing hartru. I play on it a few times a week in all different climates. I even have friends who have their own personal hartru courts and let me know about the costs. Also having played on hartru since I was a child I had to sweep up and maintain the courts myself.....(by the way in winter time indoors there is nothing to even sweep.....its packed so hard that its like a hard court).

5- so what if a poster enjoys playing on hard courts? he can play on it as much as he wants.....Im talking about the integrity of the grand slams. For example Agassi won on four vastly different surfaces. His achievement in my mind was greater than nadals.

6- i dont think ive ignored any questions. If i missed one let me know and I will gladly address it.

7 your opininon of my bias is speculative. I dont think Fed did as well on fast surfaces as he did on slower ones. He lost Wimbledon on a fast surface....rafter owned fed on fast surfaces...in fact I believe most of Feds grandslams were won on slow surfaces.. that is not an opinion that is a fact.

There were no complaints about the surfaces when fed was winning.

Hartru is neither to fast or to slow ...its just right for Fed.

Tennis_Hands
03-16-2012, 01:18 PM
1- Im not obsessed this board is. The real reason they want to see fast courts is they want federer to win. Nothing wrong with that but lets call a spade a spade.

It doesn't matter, even if every single poster on this board is a *******. It is YOUR thread, so you should not create threads just to "please the crowd". IT sounds like you was forced to create a thread about Federer, and that is clearly not the case.

2-Thanks I mean subjective. My opinions are subjective because I am quite familiar with the surface. If you have not played on it then your opinions would actually be speculative.

They are subjective AND speculative. With an emphasis on the latter. I have played on Har-Tru, when I was residing in the USA for a total of almost one and a half years. My questions should have told you that.

3- both statements are true and are not exclusive, I believe that the grandslams should be four distinct different surfaces and they should also represent the most popular surfaces played on.

They are not exclusive, but they do not mean the same at all. If you read the posts of other posters from Australia, you should notice, that they have said certain things about the distribution of the Har-Tru there. According to them (and I have to go with what they say, since I have not a personal knowledge of the situation there) Har-Tru is not a popular surface there, so in reality what is remaining is what I pointed at in your original post. I addressed that already, so I have nothing to add to that.


4- I do have knowledge about playing and maintaing hartru. I play on it a few times a week in all different climates. I even have friends who have their own personal hartru courts and let me know about the costs. Also having played on hartru since I was a child I had to sweep up and maintain the courts myself.....(by the way in winter time indoors there is nothing to even sweep.....its packed so hard that its like a hard court).

Now you only have to tell us how are the costs and the maintaining compared to hardcourts. Mind you, maintaining doesn't exactly mean "sweeping the courts".

Also, the fact, that you have friends, that have such courts doesn't mean squat. Give your comparative estimate about the costs, related with maintaining a hardcourt and a Har-Tru court. THAT would mean something.

5- so what if a poster enjoys playing on hard courts? he can play on it as much as he wants.....Im talking about the integrity of the grand slams. For example Agassi won on four vastly different surfaces. His achievement in my mind was greater than nadals.

IN YOUR MIND means, that YOU think it has greater value. Not so with so many other people, including me. In fact, you keep insisting, that AO has an integrity problem and it has anything to do with the surface. Please, elaborate why do you think so.

6- i dont think ive ignored any questions. If i missed one let me know and I will gladly address it.

I specifically quoted them, because I thought, that you might have missed them. What more do you expect me to do? Come to you and read them out loud?

7 your opininon of my bias is speculative. I dont think Fed did as well on fast surfaces as he did on slower ones. He lost Wimbledon on a fast surface....rafter owned fed on fast surfaces...in fact I believe most of Feds grandslams were won on slow surfaces.. that is not an opinion that is a fact.

There were no complaints about the surfaces when fed was winning.

Hartru is neither to fast or to slow ...its just right for Fed.

Rafter owned Federer on fast surfaces? Would you care to check once again how old was Fed, when he lost to Rafter? In fact, Rafter beat Federer on grass, slow hardcourt and clay, so you should look for another example, to try to proove your point. Federer won on the surfaces he was playing, when he started entering his prime. Sure, there were faster surfaces than the ones, Federer played on, but it is pure speculation whether Federer would have been good enough to dominate on them or not. All we know is, that he was dominant on the fastest surfaces (at the biggest events no less) there were during his prime years.

The more I read your answers the more I am sure, that you are no different than the *****. It is not even hard to guess, where your allegiances lie.

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 01:38 PM
Omg....I can't keep doing this. I have a life lol.

Why are you taking this so personally?

Your splitting hairs on things that don't matter....like the cost of Har tru.....who the hell cares??? Do you honestly think the AO can't afford it?

A far as rafter or whatever you can always make an excise for any loss.....his age has nothing to do with it . Rafa beat Fed at 17 and pat cash at 14.

Rafter beat fed on fast courts the same year that Fed beat Sampras at Wimbledon .

The facts are Fed has won more on slow courts than on fast courts. Why does this anger you? It's just a fact .....it's like of I said the sky was blue an you got angry . Weird .

jackson vile
03-16-2012, 01:43 PM
Omg....I can't keep doing this. I have a life lol.

Why are you taking this so personally?

Your splitting hairs on things that don't matter....like the cost of Har tru.....who the hell cares??? Do you honestly think the AO can't afford it?

A far as rafter or whatever you can always make an excise for any loss.....his age has nothing to do with it . Rafa beat Fed at 17 and pat cash at 14.

Rafter beat fed on fast courts the same year that Fed beat Sampras at Wimbledon .

The facts are Fed has won more on slow courts than on fast courts. Why does this anger you? It's just a fact .....it's like of I said the sky was blue an you got angry . Weird .


They want to pretend that he is some kind of S&V hard court expert when in reality he play best on medium pace courts and is a baseliner that attempts to inject S&V into his game when he can stand to lose some points.

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 01:47 PM
They want to pretend that he is some kind of S&V hard court expert when in reality he play best on medium pace courts and is a baseliner that attempts to inject S&V into his game when he can stand to lose some points.

Ahhhhhh.....thanks for reading between the lines.

I couldn't understand why anyone would be angry.

Gotcha!

Tennis_Hands
03-16-2012, 02:41 PM
Omg....I can't keep doing this. I have a life lol.

You have a life, allright. Utterly dominated by your thoughts about Federer, it seems. You reaction to Ville's post is rather telling.

Your splitting hairs on things that don't matter....like the cost of Har tru.....who the hell cares??? Do you honestly think the AO can't afford it?.

Creating a thread about a surface of a Major, then derailing it by turning it in a Federer-related thing. Completely ignoring absolutely relevant questions, asked as a reaction to your borderline absurd comments, calling them "things that do not matter". Why is that pattern familiar to me?


A far as rafter or whatever you can always make an excise for any loss.....his age has nothing to do with it . Rafa beat Fed at 17 and pat cash at 14.

There are no excuses. In his prime Federer was utterly dominant on the fastest surfaces at the biggest tennis events there were. Please, try to understand that. But, as I said, this has absolutely nothing to do with this thread (except in your mind).

The facts are Fed has won more on slow courts than on fast courts. Why does this anger you? It's just a fact .....it's like of I said the sky was blue an you got angry . Weird .


I doesn't anger me and have never angered me in this or any other tennis related discussion. You are projecting too much from your own mindset and experience. However, what made me post repeatedly, was the hope, that you will stop postig gems, if your illogical, scattered and pointless ideas are exposed for what they are.

I could have gotten in to technicalities and show how speculative, inconsistent and uninformed your claims are , but I choose not to, because I do not think that you are serious about anything other than bashing Federer and it will be a waste of my time.

VOLLEY KING
03-16-2012, 02:54 PM
Yah.....you don't sound angry in the least

Cup8489
03-16-2012, 03:26 PM
They want to pretend that he is some kind of S&V hard court expert when in reality he play best on medium pace courts and is a baseliner that attempts to inject S&V into his game when he can stand to lose some points.
Omg....I can't keep doing this. I have a life lol.

Why are you taking this so personally?

Your splitting hairs on things that don't matter....like the cost of Har tru.....who the hell cares??? Do you honestly think the AO can't afford it?

A far as rafter or whatever you can always make an excise for any loss.....his age has nothing to do with it . Rafa beat Fed at 17 and pat cash at 14.

Rafter beat fed on fast courts the same year that Fed beat Sampras at Wimbledon .

The facts are Fed has won more on slow courts than on fast courts. Why does this anger you? It's just a fact .....it's like of I said the sky was blue an you got angry . Weird .


these poasters dun play tennis.

Paul Murphy
03-16-2012, 05:07 PM
he just enjoys watching people get angry. Dont bother

Cheers, thanks for the advice. I do wonder why people like that bother.
Good topic, by the way. :)