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View Full Version : The indoor season will decide Federer's fate in 2012


nadalwon2012
03-19-2012, 03:07 AM
Federer has to win everything after the US Open, just to stay afloat. I see this as being the deciding factor in whether he stays in the top 3 or whether we see changing of the guard with Murray emerging as the new 3rd member of the big 3.

Federer can no longer live off his slam performances. Since winning the AO in 2010 Federer has made just one slam final (which he lost 6-1 in the 4th set). The indoor season has become Federer's only saving grace, and this will decide whether he stays with the big boys. Meanwhile the time seems right for Murray, now that he is getting some momentum vs Djokovic.

How do you see Federer faring in the indoor season? Nothing but perfection will do.

Sartorius
03-19-2012, 03:13 AM
Let's put it this way, it will be a far less deciding factor than whether Nadal's season will get you to start another account.

nadalwon2012
03-19-2012, 03:17 AM
Let's put it this way, it will be a far less deciding factor than whether Nadal's season will get you to start another account.

I don't see the point of your delusional trolling, besides getting banned.

Nadal's points each year are predominantly accumulated during the clay-grass season. This year is an especially big opportunity to gain, because he isn't the defending champ at Rome/Madrid. Much easier for Nadal to gain during the clay season than previous years. And he looks in better physical condition than he did at the start of 2011 (and the start of 2010 for that matter), that is for sure. Nothing more impressive than a 6 hour marathon to open the year with :D

joeri888
03-19-2012, 03:23 AM
Yeah, so with the clay and grass just around the corner. It's Nadal who should be worried about racking up enough points to stay high in the rankings. He has only been the fourth best hardcourt player in the last 9 months, despite making 2 Slam finals.

Sartorius
03-19-2012, 03:25 AM
I don't see the point of your delusional trolling, besides getting banned.

I see a valid point in you getting ridiculed at every turn, as it appears you see some point (besides getting banned) in delusional trolling in its most literal sense, trolling around with multiple accounts and denying it at the same time. I would happily accept a warning or two for that.

Feather
03-19-2012, 03:33 AM
Federer has to win everything after the US Open, just to stay afloat. I see this as being the deciding factor in whether he stays in the top 3 or whether we see changing of the guard with Murray emerging as the new 3rd member of the big 3.

Federer can no longer live off his slam performances. Since winning the AO in 2010 Federer has made just one slam final (which he lost 6-1 in the 4th set). The indoor season has become Federer's only saving grace, and this will decide whether he stays with the big boys. Meanwhile the time seems right for Murray, now that he is getting some momentum vs Djokovic.

How do you see Federer faring in the indoor season? Nothing but perfection will do.

You don't have to wait that far. If Roger wins Miami and Rafael doesn't make it to the final, he will become number two. Just compare the ponts these two guys have to defend in the following months. 360, 360, 90 for Roger in Miami, Madrid, Rome while Rafa has to defend 600, 1000, 500, 600, 600 at Miami, Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Madrid, Rome

It's easier task for Roger but that's not the same for Rafa since he is not invincible in clay anymore.

nadalwon2012
03-19-2012, 03:38 AM
You don't have to wait that far. If Roger wins Miami and Rafael doesn't make it to the final, he will become number two. Just compare the ponts these two guys have to defend in the following months. 360, 360, 90 for Roger in Miami, Madrid, Rome while Rafa has to defend 600, 1000, 500, 600, 600 at Miami, Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Madrid, Rome

It's easier task for Roger but that's not the same for Rafa since he is not invincible in clay anymore.

We do have to wait actually. Nobody cares if Federer has the number 2 ranking in March. November is the key date, and that is why the indoor season is the difference-maker.

In the clay season, who beats Nadal, based on the last 2 years? Djokovic and....

Whereas Federer has to battle a lot harder, and nothing comes easily. The question isn't whether Nadal will defend, but rather whether Nadal will gain. Whereas Federer, nothing is really in his favor, especially since Djokovic and Murray have improved their clay levels.

ledwix
03-19-2012, 03:41 AM
Nadal has Djokovic right where he wants him guys! Seven straight losses is pretty much the best situation you can be in!

merlinpinpin
03-19-2012, 03:42 AM
Look, you've even answered your own initial question, so you can safely start another trolling thread, now:

In the indoor season, who beats Federer, based on the last 2 years?

:mrgreen:

nadalwon2012
03-19-2012, 03:43 AM
Nadal has Djokovic right where he wants him guys! Seven straight losses is pretty much the best situation you can be in!

When Nadal had beaten Djokovic 5 matches in a row, it didn't seem to matter. Streaks happen, and they still aren't enough to change the future...

nadalwon2012
03-19-2012, 03:46 AM
Look, you've even answered your own initial question, so you can safely start another trolling thread, now:



:mrgreen:

I can't answer it with any certainty. Is it likely that Nadal, Djokovic, Murray will have a better post-US Open run than they had in 2011? It would be surprising if all 3 have exactly the same results as 2011. The question is, which of those 3 players do you think will likely challenge Federer post-US Open?

Feather
03-19-2012, 03:50 AM
We do have to wait actually. Nobody cares if Federer has the number 2 ranking in March. November is the key date, and that is why the indoor season is the difference-maker.

In the clay season, who beats Nadal, based on the last 2 years? Djokovic and....

Whereas Federer has to battle a lot harder, and nothing comes easily. The question isn't whether Nadal will defend, but rather whether Nadal will gain. Whereas Federer, nothing is really in his favor, especially since Djokovic and Murray have improved their clay levels.


According to you Djokovic and Murray have improved their clay levels. Still that is a problem only for Federer. Why? Rafa aint taking part in any clay tournaments this year? :P You don't remember that Rafa lost to Novak twice in the clay season last year. I must say I like your confidence despite being 7-0 in the last seven matches.

Oh, streaks come and go, I forgot :)

nadalwon2012
03-19-2012, 03:58 AM
According to you Djokovic and Murray have improved their clay levels. Still that is a problem only for Federer. Why? Rafa aint taking part in any clay tournaments this year? :P You don't remember that Rafa lost to Novak twice in the clay season last year. I must say I like your confidence despite being 7-0 in the last seven matches.

Oh, streaks come and go, I forgot :)

There is a big difference between Nadal's clay level and Federer's clay level. I think Murray is at the Federer clay level at least in best of 3 sets. I won't say Murray is on that level at Roland Garros, because he rarely plays his best at slams. Djokovic, clearly above Murray's level on clay and at least in best-of-3 is better than Federer and Nadal of 2011. Roland Garros, different story.

sheq
03-19-2012, 04:38 AM
Federer has to win everything after the US Open, just to stay afloat. I see this as being the deciding factor in whether he stays in the top 3 or whether we see changing of the guard with Murray emerging as the new 3rd member of the big 3.

Federer can no longer live off his slam performances. Since winning the AO in 2010 Federer has made just one slam final (which he lost 6-1 in the 4th set). The indoor season has become Federer's only saving grace, and this will decide whether he stays with the big boys. Meanwhile the time seems right for Murray, now that he is getting some momentum vs Djokovic.

How do you see Federer faring in the indoor season? Nothing but perfection will do.

Are you serous ? Federer has won last six tournements of eight. He just lost once during this strech. I thinks nole and rafa should be worried rather than Federer. They have too many to defend next 6 months. Federer didnt reached finals except roland garros let alone being champion.

Lets see how Nadal and Djokovic will deal with the circumstance, then we might talk about how Federer save his points.

Enigma_87
03-19-2012, 05:48 AM
There is a big difference between Nadal's clay level and Federer's clay level. I think Murray is at the Federer clay level at least in best of 3 sets.


yeah because Murray has 5 clay MS titles(and 7 finals), 1 RG to his name and 4 finals there. They are exactly at the same level on clay.
Has Murray played for the title on clay?


I won't say Murray is on that level at Roland Garros, because he rarely plays his best at slams. Djokovic, clearly above Murray's level on clay and at least in best-of-3 is better than Federer and Nadal of 2011. Roland Garros, different story.

And yet Federer is 3-1 against Djokovic on clay, with the most recent match 3-1 at RG last year. Go figure...

nadalwon2012
03-19-2012, 06:13 AM
Murray's level at Rome last year was sublime. I'm convinced he can beat Federer in a best of 3 clay match. At Roland Garros (or any slam), I'm not convinced of anything regarding Murray. He doesn't play his best tennis at the slams.

Djokovic played a higher level of clay tennis than Federer in the 2011 clay masters events. At Roland Garros, I agree Federer has the edge, as I said before-

Djokovic, clearly above Murray's level on clay and at least in best-of-3 is better than Federer and Nadal of 2011. Roland Garros, different story.

stringertom
03-19-2012, 06:35 AM
There is a four-way rivalry for #1 in the race to the TT Delusional Cup...(Bullz1lla), Bullz1lla2.0, nadalwon2012 (BTW what has he won in '12?), and VOLLEY KING. Much rides on their indoor season results...my bet is on VK coz Mallorcans and their fanboys take the fall off.

Cup8489
03-19-2012, 06:36 AM
We do have to wait actually. Nobody cares if Federer has the number 2 ranking in March. November is the key date, and that is why the indoor season is the difference-maker.

In the clay season, who beats Nadal, based on the last 2 years? Djokovic and....

Whereas Federer has to battle a lot harder, and nothing comes easily. The question isn't whether Nadal will defend, but rather whether Nadal will gain. Whereas Federer, nothing is really in his favor, especially since Djokovic and Murray have improved their clay levels.

Silly troll, if Nadal drops to number three he could meet Djokovic in semis, not finals, and so would lose even more points, especially if he were to fall in the semis of the FO. he would go from 2000 points to 720 points, a gigantic swing for a guy whos ranking is heavily rooted in that tournament.

Cup8489
03-19-2012, 06:39 AM
When Nadal had beaten Djokovic 5 matches in a row, it didn't seem to matter. Streaks happen, and they still aren't enough to change the future...

You're so delusional it's not even funny, at all. Neither Djokovic nor Federer ever lost 7 matches in a row to Nadal. so in that sense, Djokovic has dominated him for a more extended period than Rafa has either of the other two.

Gorecki
03-19-2012, 06:42 AM
I don't see the point of your delusional trolling, besides getting banned.


Comedy gold...

10dumarsesiwishwouldgetbannedforonceandforall

nadalwon2012
03-19-2012, 06:46 AM
You're so delusional it's not even funny, at all. Neither Djokovic nor Federer ever lost 7 matches in a row to Nadal. so in that sense, Djokovic has dominated him for a more extended period than Rafa has either of the other two.

I didn't say they did. I said Djokovic lost 5 straight matches to Nadal. Streaks happen. And another streak, perhaps more important than either is that Nadal won 5 straight SLAM matches over Djokovic (and those 5 matches took place at Roland Garros, Wimbledon, US Open). So Nadal has 2 different streaks, 5 overall and 5 at slams. That didn't stop Djokovic from getting on top. Streaks don't prevent anything. They are all in the past.

Gorecki
03-19-2012, 06:48 AM
There is a four-way rivalry for #1 in the race to the TT Delusional Cup...(Bullz1lla), Bullz1lla2.0, nadalwon2012 (BTW what has he won in '12?), and VOLLEY KING. Much rides on their indoor season results...my bet is on VK coz Mallorcans and their fanboys take the fall off.

It's not what has he won in 2012. it's about him winning the year....

let me explain Nadalwon2012 theory:

If Nadalwon2012 makes two colonoscopies, one in the spring and another in the Autumn, it means he will be in the race to win a whole year just for him.

so even if you do a (1) trip to Haway (any unrelated event for what is worth), he will be ahead of you by having done two (2) colonoscopies, thus winning the year. not this or that award in the mentioned year, but the year itself, the whole 365 days will be awarded just for him...


did i make myself clear?

celoft
03-19-2012, 06:49 AM
You don't have to wait that far. If Roger wins Miami and Rafael doesn't make it to the final, he will become number two. Just compare the ponts these two guys have to defend in the following months. 360, 360, 90 for Roger in Miami, Madrid, Rome while Rafa has to defend 600, 1000, 500, 600, 600 at Miami, Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Madrid, Rome

It's easier task for Roger but that's not the same for Rafa since he is not invincible in clay anymore.

This.....................

FlashFlare11
03-19-2012, 06:57 AM
I'm trying to understand what you're saying.

First of all, Nadal can gain huge by winning one of the next three slams? No. Nadal won RG (which is a must-defend for him this year) and made the final of Wimbledon and USO. Nadal, too, is vulnerable to early upsets at Wimbledon (he loses sets far too easily at Wimbledon) and making the USO final (something which he's only done twice in his career) isn't a set-in-stone conclusion. Djokovic has the most to lose, but can gain by simply making the RG final.

Second of all, Nadal, Murray, and Djokovic can gain in the indoor season? Maybe Murray, but that's it. Djokovic will be exhausted (according to you Nadal and Djokovic fans) due to trying to defend everything until September. Nadal has almost been a non-factor indoors. Why would this change now? Federer had one of his best indoor seasons last year. Again, why should it stop now, especially when he's had seasons where he's played 97 matches in a year and still had a successful post-USO stretch?

Thirdly, Federer cannot gain during the clay-Wimbledon stretch? Nope. Federer had an early exit from Rome last year. You can bet he'll be determined to go farther this year, especially since he hasn't yet won that event. Federer has made the Madrid final two of the three years since the event switched to clay, and only lost to Nadal both years he's lost there. As for Wimbledon, Federer gains by making at least the SFs there, while, as I mentioned above, Nadal must make the final. He is more vulnerable at Wimbledon than you think. Roger also has some ground to make up in Toronto and Cincy. Federer is a four-time winner at Cincy whereas Nadal has never won that event before.

So, in response to your question, the indoor season will not decide Federer's fate in 2012, unless you're referring to the 2011 indoor stretch, which in that case, has put Federer on the road to No. 1. Like many have said before, he's not trying to end the year ranked No. 1. He's just trying to hold it for two more weeks (at least) to break the all-time record for most weeks at No. 1.

stringertom
03-19-2012, 07:05 AM
It's not what has he won in 2012. it's about him winning the year....

let me explain Nadalwon2012 theory:

If Nadalwon2012 makes two colonoscopies, one in the spring and another in the Autumn, it means he will be in the race to win a whole year just for him.

so even if you do a (1) trip to Haway (any unrelated event for what is worth), he will be ahead of you by having done two (2) colonoscopies, thus winning the year. not this or that award in the mentioned year, but the year itself, the whole 365 days will be awarded just for him...


did i make myself clear?
As clear as the aforementioned colonoscopies!

Cup8489
03-19-2012, 07:13 AM
I didn't say they did. I said Djokovic lost 5 straight matches to Nadal. Streaks happen. And another streak, perhaps more important than either is that Nadal won 5 straight SLAM matches over Djokovic (and those 5 matches took place at Roland Garros, Wimbledon, US Open). So Nadal has 2 different streaks, 5 overall and 5 at slams. That didn't stop Djokovic from getting on top. Streaks don't prevent anything. They are all in the past.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the entire point of my post went over your delusional head.

Djokovic may have had a couple of losing streaks to Nadal in the past, but neither of them were as protracted as the one Nadal currently is in. Despite your completely unbased claim, Nadal has not 'surpassed' Djokovic, because he didn't win in Australia. So he's on a 7 match losing streak that spans an entire year and the biggest stages in the game.

Oh, and streaks do prevent things. I mean, Nadal would be at 13 majors if not for Djokovic, but now he's on the verge of losing the number 2 ranking! LOL.

But, you won't accept anything I've just said, because you're completely delusional and don't have a clue about the way the rankings/sport work.

Gorecki
03-19-2012, 07:19 AM
As clear as the aforementioned colonoscopies!

glad i could help

spiderman123
03-19-2012, 07:21 AM
Federer has to win everything after the US Open, just to stay afloat.


Stopped reading there.

nadalwon2012
03-19-2012, 07:22 AM
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the entire point of my post went over your delusional head.

Djokovic may have had a couple of losing streaks to Nadal in the past, but neither of them were as protracted as the one Nadal currently is in. Despite your completely unbased claim, Nadal has not 'surpassed' Djokovic, because he didn't win in Australia. So he's on a 7 match losing streak that spans an entire year and the biggest stages in the game.

Oh, and streaks do prevent things. I mean, Nadal would be at 13 majors if not for Djokovic, but now he's on the verge of losing the number 2 ranking! LOL.

But, you won't accept anything I've just said, because you're completely delusional and don't have a clue about the way the rankings/sport work.

Again, a streak of 5, 6, 7, is all part of a balanced h2h. Nothing new here.

Cup8489
03-19-2012, 07:33 AM
Again, a streak of 5, 6, 7, is all part of a balanced h2h. Nothing new here.

No. it isn't. You dont know what you're talking about. A balanced head to head is when players split many meetings. Nadal dominated Djokovic, and now Djokovic is dominating Nadal. soon enough it's going to be wildly in Djokovic's favor.

jackson vile
03-19-2012, 07:37 AM
Federer will be fine after the USO, most top players don't take it too seriously, they expend their energy on slams.

Love all
03-19-2012, 07:38 AM
He can gain much in next 6 montihs not to be worried for indoors season.

nadalwon2012
03-19-2012, 07:41 AM
I'm trying to understand what you're saying.

First of all, Nadal can gain huge by winning one of the next three slams? No. Nadal won RG (which is a must-defend for him this year) and made the final of Wimbledon and USO. Nadal, too, is vulnerable to early upsets at Wimbledon (he loses sets far too easily at Wimbledon) and making the USO final (something which he's only done twice in his career) isn't a set-in-stone conclusion. Djokovic has the most to lose, but can gain by simply making the RG final.

Second of all, Nadal, Murray, and Djokovic can gain in the indoor season? Maybe Murray, but that's it. Djokovic will be exhausted (according to you Nadal and Djokovic fans) due to trying to defend everything until September. Nadal has almost been a non-factor indoors. Why would this change now? Federer had one of his best indoor seasons last year. Again, why should it stop now, especially when he's had seasons where he's played 97 matches in a year and still had a successful post-USO stretch?

Thirdly, Federer cannot gain during the clay-Wimbledon stretch? Nope. Federer had an early exit from Rome last year. You can bet he'll be determined to go farther this year, especially since he hasn't yet won that event. Federer has made the Madrid final two of the three years since the event switched to clay, and only lost to Nadal both years he's lost there. As for Wimbledon, Federer gains by making at least the SFs there, while, as I mentioned above, Nadal must make the final. He is more vulnerable at Wimbledon than you think. Roger also has some ground to make up in Toronto and Cincy. Federer is a four-time winner at Cincy whereas Nadal has never won that event before.

So, in response to your question, the indoor season will not decide Federer's fate in 2012, unless you're referring to the 2011 indoor stretch, which in that case, has put Federer on the road to No. 1. Like many have said before, he's not trying to end the year ranked No. 1. He's just trying to hold it for two more weeks (at least) to break the all-time record for most weeks at No. 1.


Do you understand the difference between winning a slam and making a slam final? The swing is huge. Nadal winning Wimbledon and Djokovic losing in the final, is a huge gain. Even at Miami the swing is huge. If Nadal beats Djokovic in the final of Miami, that is an 800 point swing. Nadal gains 400, while Djokovic loses 400. 800 point swing. Nadal can gain huge, because of the large points gap between being a finalist and winning. 7 losses in the finals last year for Nadal. Huge opportunities. He didn't take that opportunity at Indian Wells, but he still got closer to Djokovic, because they both lost in the semis and Djokovic lost the most points being defending champ. Either way, Nadal gained big at the Australian Open, because he was only defending a QF.

I have never said Djokovic would be exhausted after this year's US Open. I have only ever said he was exhausted after last year's US Open. Nobody knows whether Djokovic will be tired at the end of this US Open, because we don't know how many matches he is winning/playing. Why should Federer stop winning now? Uh, because he hasn't even played Djokovic this year for a start, and he will most likely have to play Nadal again.

We saw Federer lose to Isner on clay this year. He really isn't so consistent on clay. Consistent at Roland Garros though (but no guarantee of him beating Djokovic at Roland Garros in this years semi. And obviously no guarantee of him beating Nadal in a semi. So he could well lose points at Roland Garros). Clay is a different animal. And even if you believe in momentum, that can easily be halted by a meeting with Djokovic or Nadal, both of whom can beat Federer without it even being called an upset.

Well, good luck with Federer's quest for a week ranked number one. I hope for your sake it works out.

dudeski
03-19-2012, 07:47 AM
Federer has to win everything after the US Open, just to stay afloat. I see this as being the deciding factor in whether he stays in the top 3 or whether we see changing of the guard with Murray emerging as the new 3rd member of the big 3.

Federer can no longer live off his slam performances. Since winning the AO in 2010 Federer has made just one slam final (which he lost 6-1 in the 4th set). The indoor season has become Federer's only saving grace, and this will decide whether he stays with the big boys. Meanwhile the time seems right for Murray, now that he is getting some momentum vs Djokovic.

How do you see Federer faring in the indoor season? Nothing but perfection will do.

I used to think that Clarky21 was a worse troll than you but I am starting to reconsider my opinion. I mean she does always call #1 payer in the world something stupid, and she is completely wrong 99% of the time about Nadal, and she lashes out at anyone who dares to challenge her obvious lack of logic, so yeah she still is much worse than you, but you are on the wrong path...

nadalwon2012
03-19-2012, 07:52 AM
He can gain much in next 6 montihs not to be worried for indoors season.

Don't forget clay and grass is when Nadal and Djokovic dominated 2011. Djokovic won Rome, Madrid, (and Belgrade). Nadal won Barcelona, Monte Carlo, Roland Garros. And Murray was one game away from beating Djokovic at Rome. Isner has looked brilliant on clay, taking 2 sets from Nadal at Roland Garros last year, and beating Federer soundly this year in Davis Cup. And, I know its hardcourt but the first set of the Indian Wells final was a virtual coin toss. Isner-Federer is very very close. Anyway, clay therefore is very crowded. And grass, Federer has lost in the QF of Wimbledon 2 years in a row. Last year there was major hype regarding Federer's Wimbledon chances, after his competitive RG final with Nadal. See, hard to rely on Federer at Wimbledon these days. Don't be surprised if Federer doesn't get the number one ranking this year. If Federer hasn't gained a whole lot during clay-grass season, the pressure will be on for him to at least defend most of his indoor titles, or risk being overtaken by the improving Murray. And the World Tour Finals is a gold-mine for guys like Nadal, defending nothing there.

FlashFlare11
03-19-2012, 07:57 AM
Do you understand the difference between winning a slam and making a slam final? The swing is huge. Nadal winning Wimbledon and Djokovic losing in the final, is a huge gain. Even at Miami the swing is huge. If Nadal beats Djokovic in the final of Miami, that is an 800 point swing. Nadal gains 400, while Djokovic loses 400. 800 point swing. Nadal can gain huge, because of the large points gap between being a finalist and winning. 7 losses in the finals last year for Nadal. Huge opportunities. He didn't take that opportunity at Indian Wells, but he still got closer to Djokovic, because they both lost in the semis and Djokovic lost the most points being defending champ. Either way, Nadal gained big at the Australian Open, because he was only defending a QF.
I do see the difference. Nadal got closer to Djokovic, but Federer got closer to Nadal. Like most here believe, Novak will not defend everything this year, he simply needs to do better across most events than his competition. Same goes for every other player.

You make it sound as though making the finals of Wimbledon and USO is some easy task for Nadal. He always struggles in the early rounds at Wimbledon and one year, he won't make it through. The latter rounds for Nadal at the USO are difficult, too, because he's playing quality hard court players (usually). I don't see Novak defending Wimbledon this year or even making the final, but that doesn't mean Nadal is going to win it either.

I have never said Djokovic would be exhausted after this year's US Open. I have only ever said he was exhausted after last year's US Open. Nobody knows whether Djokovic will be tired at the end of this US Open, because we don't know how many matches he is winning/playing. Why should Federer stop winning now? Uh, because he hasn't even played Djokovic this year for a start, and he will most likely have to play Nadal again.
Ah, but this is the excuse given year after year by both Nadal and Djokovic fans about their respective favorites, is it not? I am confident Djokovic will be in better shape during this year's indoor season compared to last year's because he will only be playing enough tournaments to retain his ranking. However, Federer can beat Djokovic anywhere. I was talking about indoors, here, by the way. Nadal has never beaten Federer indoors, and hasn't shown any true signs of progress against him there. What would change this year?

We saw Federer lose to Isner on clay this year. He really isn't so consistent on clay. Consistent at Roland Garros though (but no guarantee of him beating Djokovic at Roland Garros in this years semi. And obviously no guarantee of him beating Nadal in a semi. So he could well lose points at Roland Garros). Clay is a different animal. And even if you believe in momentum, that can easily be halted by a meeting with Djokovic or Nadal, both of whom can beat Federer without it even being called an upset.
Yes, Federer lost to Isner on clay, but Nadal almost lost to him too. So, I'm more inclined to say Isner is more comfortable on clay than people give him credit for, rather than to say Federer is inconsistent. Clay is a different animal, true, but Federer has only ever lost to Nadal and Soderling since 2005 at RG. If Federer can secure the No. 2 seed at RG, the possibility of Djokovic meeting Nadal before the final is incredibly possible.

Well, good luck with Federer's quest for a week ranked number one. I hope for your sake it works out.

Why, thank you.

nadalwon2012
03-19-2012, 08:05 AM
I do see the difference. Nadal got closer to Djokovic, but Federer got closer to Nadal. Like most here believe, Novak will not defend everything this year, he simply needs to do better across most events than his competition. Same goes for every other player.

You make it sound as though making the finals of Wimbledon and USO is some easy task for Nadal. He always struggles in the early rounds at Wimbledon and one year, he won't make it through. The latter rounds for Nadal at the USO are difficult, too, because he's playing quality hard court players (usually). I don't see Novak defending Wimbledon this year or even making the final, but that doesn't mean Nadal is going to win it either.


Ah, but this is the excuse given year after year by both Nadal and Djokovic fans about their respective favorites, is it not? I am confident Djokovic will be in better shape during this year's indoor season compared to last year's because he will only be playing enough tournaments to retain his ranking. However, Federer can beat Djokovic anywhere. I was talking about indoors, here, by the way. Nadal has never beaten Federer indoors, and hasn't shown any true signs of progress against him there. What would change this year?


Yes, Federer lost to Isner on clay, but Nadal almost lost to him too. So, I'm more inclined to say Isner is more comfortable on clay than people give him credit for, rather than to say Federer is inconsistent. Clay is a different animal, true, but Federer has only ever lost to Nadal and Soderling since 2005 at RG. If Federer can secure the No. 2 seed at RG, the possibility of Djokovic meeting Nadal before the final is incredibly possible.



Why, thank you.


Let's get something straight. The last time Nadal lost before the final at Wimbledon was 2005. When players are 'close' to beating Nadal they really aren't. Nadal's 5 set record is one of the greatest of all-time. His self-believe level vs someone in the 1st week is off-the-charts. Most sane people would put money on Nadal making the Wimbledon final, rather than putting money on Federer. It is Federer who is struggling the most with big-hitters at Wimbledon, losing to Berdych and Tsonga.

And the last time Nadal lost before the US Open semis was 2007. And he's made 2 straight finals (including winning 2010). So he really is a machine at Wimbledon and now the US Open too. Huge chance for the final of both, very very likely.

Yeah, Isner is another player that will make the clay season very crowded. It is more competitive than in recent years. Although Soderling is still missing.

jackson vile
03-19-2012, 08:07 AM
He can gain much in next 6 montihs not to be worried for indoors season.

You say that now...

Cup8489
03-19-2012, 08:09 AM
You say that now...

DUDE NO WAY, YOURE RIGHT. HE DID JUST SAY THAT RIGHT NOW!

Lolville... hahahaha.

FlashFlare11
03-19-2012, 08:09 AM
Let's get something straight. The last time Nadal lost before the final at Wimbledon was 2005. When players are 'close' to beating Nadal they really aren't. Nadal's 5 set record is one of the greatest of all-time. His self-believe level vs someone in the 1st week is off-the-charts. Most sane people would put money on Nadal making the Wimbledon final, rather than putting money on Federer. It is Federer who is struggling the most with big-hitters at Wimbledon, losing to Berdych and Tsonga. I think Federer was favorite to win Wimbledon last year according to the bookies, by the way.

Yeah, Isner is another player that will make the clay season very crowded. It is more competitive than in recent years. Although Soderling is still missing.

That may be true, but I'm more inclined to believe that Federer is more consistent at RG than Nadal ever was at Wimbledon. And Nadal is also vulnerable to big hitters, even off of grass. Raonic, Tsonga, Berdych, del Potro, any of these players can get hot and hit Nadal off Centre Court.

nadalwon2012
03-19-2012, 08:22 AM
That may be true, but I'm more inclined to believe that Federer is more consistent at RG than Nadal ever was at Wimbledon. And Nadal is also vulnerable to big hitters, even off of grass. Raonic, Tsonga, Berdych, del Potro, any of these players can get hot and hit Nadal off Centre Court.

Raonic? LOL C'mon. Del Potro? He was hot at Wimbledon last year, many described it as the best match of Wimbledon and maybe of the year. Still, only 4 sets. Nadal has a way of drawing errors from these brutes. He's learned a lot over the years about these guys. The odds are far against Nadal losing to any of them. You think Nadal is more likely to lose early at Wimbledon than Federer is to lose at Roland Garros? That's a matter of opinion. Agree to disagree on that.

FlashFlare11
03-19-2012, 08:29 AM
Raonic? LOL C'mon. Del Potro? He was hot at Wimbledon last year, many described it as the best match of Wimbledon and maybe of the year. Still, only 4 sets. Nadal has a way of drawing errors from these brutes. He's learned a lot over the years about these guys. The odds are far against Nadal losing to any of them. You think Nadal is more likely to lose early at Wimbledon than Federer is to lose at Roland Garros? That's a matter of opinion. Agree to disagree on that.

The players I listed have huge serves. Nadal cannot meet Tsonga, Berdych, or del Potro in the first week. But if he meets Raonic, you can bet that the serves will be flying. Any of these guys can beat Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic if they catch fire.

I'll agree to disagree on that. But, I'll support my case with the fact that Federer looks extremely comfortable on clay, and has a natural game for clay. He's never had to adjust too much, and the slightly faster conditions at RG will help him. He dropped only one set en route to the final last year and has consistently made the final of RG since 06, barring 2010.

nadalwon2012
03-19-2012, 08:32 AM
The players I listed have huge serves. Nadal cannot meet Tsonga, Berdych, or del Potro in the first week. But if he meets Raonic, you can bet that the serves will be flying. Any of these guys can beat Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic if they catch fire.

I'll agree to disagree on that. But, I'll support my case with the fact that Federer looks extremely comfortable on clay, and has a natural game for clay. He's never had to adjust too much, and the slightly faster conditions at RG will help him. He dropped only one set en route to the final last year and has consistently made the final of RG since 06, barring 2010.

I've seen Nadal play Ranoic twice, both on hardcourt Tokyo 2010 and 2011. Nadal won all 4 sets, and no tie-breakers required.

Yeah, too bad about Federer's 2010, especially after he made 4 straight grand slam finals in 2009 and won the channel slam. And he won the 2010 Australian Open, but then just dropped off randomly at Roland Garros (despite making the Madrid final and being in good clay form). Momentum, strange thing. You think you have it, but you don't.

Cup8489
03-19-2012, 08:41 AM
I've seen Nadal play Ranoic twice, both on hardcourt Tokyo 2010 and 2011. Nadal won all 4 sets, and no tie-breakers required.

Yeah, too bad about Federer's 2010, especially after he made 4 straight grand slam finals in 2009 and won the channel slam. And he won the 2010 Australian Open, but then just dropped off randomly with a 4th round loss at Roland Garros (despite making the Madrid final and being in good clay form). Momentum, strange thing. You think you have it, but you don't.

Quarterfinal bub. Ironic you talking about Momentum when according to you, Nadal has tremendous momentum from his 0-match win streak against djokovic. LOL.

purge
03-19-2012, 08:42 AM
everything from now until the indoor season will decide federers fate in 2012

Gorecki
03-19-2012, 11:58 AM
You say that now...

no sheet Einsten...? he did say that, now! i wish a was near you just so i could be close to someone so smart!!

jokinla
03-19-2012, 01:41 PM
Fed has a lot less to worry about defending than either Djoker or Nadal.

Sentinel
03-20-2012, 05:36 AM
Didn't know Federer's fate was up for decisions. Especially after having won almost everything in his career and still playing decently at 31.

I would rather think the younger guys need some help. Like someone who hasn't won an ATP title since RG.

World Beater
03-20-2012, 06:29 AM
Again, a streak of 5, 6, 7, is all part of a balanced h2h. Nothing new here.

hey nadallost2012,

losing like 7 finals in a row to another great player doesnt happen often. Even nadal cannot do that to federer and the matchup is much in favor of nadal there.

Nadal was close in AO, but it was because novak was dead tired after playing murray. it was an embarassing choke from nadal that he couldnt defeat djokovic after having a break in the 5th set and an open court for the backhand.

no other great player of the level of nadal has endured such a terrible streak in performance against another player in finals. Dont be so certain it will not continue. nadal has no gameplan for djokovic. he has tried everything in australia and still lost.

the final straw will be RG where nadal will become owned by a player of the same generation, even something that didnt happen to federer. djokovic is only one year younger than nadal.

nadal better pray that federer beats djokovic in the sf or he can go home to mallorca.