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all_backhand
03-20-2012, 05:28 PM
I was having a conversation with a friend today about tennis equipment and how it impacts game play, and he began to tell me about how he couldn't hit a slice backhand with his new racquet (Babolat Aerostorm GT). He told me how he could hit the shot perfectly well with his old racquet (Prince Tour Diablo MP), but he kept popping it up in the air with his new stick.

Now, he is not the first person to express this sentiment to me, but in the interest of humoring him, I asked him to show me. We get out on court and I feed him some backhands. Sure enough, he pops the next three balls into the air. They clear the net, but they look more like lobs than knifing, skidding, slices. Of course, he exclaims to me, "See, I told you I can't with this racquet!" I then tell him to use my stick (Dunlop Aerogel 4d 200 tour). He does a little better, but not much. The shots have lower clearance, but would still be best described as "floaters." I then have him feed me some balls with both racquets. I do find it slightly less comfortable to hit with the Bab (the feel is different), but all the backhands I hit clear the net by a foot or so at most, land past the service line, and skid through the court as I'm accustomed to having them do.

He asked me how I did that, and I calmly explained to him that technique is primarily responsible for any and every shot one hits and spent the next half hour or so helping him with his technique.

Now, like I said, he isn't the first person I've heard with this complaint. I've actually read several people complain about this very thing on these boards. I'm of the opinion that it's rather ridiculous to suggest there's such a thing as a shot you can hit with one racquet (or string combination for that matter) but can't with another. My question to you is what do you guys think about this? In your experience/estimation, is there such a thing as a shot that can be hit with one racquet, but can't with another?

For the record, I'd rate my friend between a 3.0 and 3.5, but that's of course subjective.

LeeD
03-20-2012, 05:31 PM
I agree with you.
Once you get used to a racket's feel and grip, you can hit every shot YOU can hit with it.
Now for sure, some players don't "own" a shot, and their skillset deviates with time, and with different rackets.
But basically, if you say a BabsPureDrive can't hit a flat serve, it's not the racket.

Xizel
03-20-2012, 05:50 PM
You can hit certain shots better with certain racquet and string (combination), but the shot is mostly technique. Now, there are certain shots like an extreme short angle topspin shot that you just can't do with a certain racquet and string because they don't produce enough topspin.

Fuji
03-20-2012, 05:54 PM
I actually find certain rackets better for certain things. I am going to serve, volley, and slice much better with a stick brought up to my comfort specs, (12.7oz, 6HL balance) then one that is 9.0oz and 10 points HH. Specs matter a lot, rackets really don't.


-Fuji

McLovin
03-20-2012, 05:57 PM
For the most part, I do agree with you. However, there are shots I could hit better with a certain racquet, or, more specifically, a racquet with certain specs.

For example, years ago I used the Yonex RD Power 10 Long Mid +. I had developed a real nice, consistent Sampras-type running cross-court forehand (albiet slightly slower).

After 3 years hitting with that racquet, I changed to the Yonex Ultimum RD Ti 50. For the life of me, I couldn't hit that running forehand like I did w/ the Power 10 Long. I used the racquet for 6 months, then abandoned it for the Babolat Pure Control + "Swirly".

Amazingly, within 2 weeks, I was hitting that running cross-court forehand once again.

Later on, I learned more about weight, balance & swingweight and determined that the RD Ti-50 was way too headlight (13pts), with a swingweight of ~ 330, while both the Power 10 & Swirly were closer to 7pts & 350. I imagine that had I added lead in the correct spots, I would have been able to "plow through" that forehand as I did w/ the others "stock".

LeeD
03-20-2012, 05:58 PM
Certainly there are parameters about how varied a racket you can use to play good tennis.
You could try a Weed125 and see how your loopy topspin precision short angles lie. You could use a junior racket and try some 110 mph first serves.
Both don't work.
But given ANY pro player's racket around 12.5 oz, you can hit all your shots with it.

JLyon
03-20-2012, 06:06 PM
For the most part, I do agree with you. However, there are shots I could hit better with a certain racquet, or, more specifically, a racquet with certain specs.

For example, years ago I used the Yonex RD Power 10 Long Mid +. I had developed a real nice, consistent Sampras-type running cross-court forehand (albiet slightly slower).

After 3 years hitting with that racquet, I changed to the Yonex Ultimum RD Ti 50. For the life of me, I couldn't hit that running forehand like I did w/ the Power 10 Long. I used the racquet for 6 months, then abandoned it for the Babolat Pure Control + "Swirly".

Amazingly, within 2 weeks, I was hitting that running cross-court forehand once again.

Later on, I learned more about weight, balance & swingweight and determined that the RD Ti-50 was way too headlight (13pts), with a swingweight of ~ 330, while both the Power 10 & Swirly were closer to 7pts & 350. I imagine that had I added lead in the correct spots, I would have been able to "plow through" that forehand as I did w/ the others "stock".

sounds like you like extended rackets vs standard length, so you have more leverage on the running FH.

all_backhand
03-20-2012, 06:13 PM
You could try a Weed125 and see how your loopy topspin precision short angles lie. You could use a junior racket and try some 110 mph first serves.
Both don't work.
But given ANY pro player's racket around 12.5 oz, you can hit all your shots with it.

^This. I should have clarified this in my post. What I should have said is any player's spec racquet is capable of producing any shot. I'd even go so far as to say any 27" and above racquet > 11 ounces is capable of performing any shot provided that the player is well-acclimated to the racquet.

tball
03-20-2012, 06:27 PM
That's all true. But look at it from the perspective of a typical ( == club) player here. Yeah, my slice is not working ... So, let's see: Should I spend $500 and a month on court to have someone correct it for me? Or should I just pick another racquet? Or, that's tough...

tistrapukcipeht
03-20-2012, 07:10 PM
You are right, some racquets will be better at some things and others at something else.

Right now I am playing with EZONE Xi it isn't as good as with RDX 300 nor RDX 500 MP.

You have to find what works on average well for everything or for what you prioritize.

tistrapukcipeht
03-20-2012, 07:11 PM
I meant it doesn't have as good slice as the other racquets.

flashfire276
03-20-2012, 08:42 PM
I wouldn't say that a different racquet causes certain strokes to die. But rather, certain racquets can improve your shots.
Like everyone said, it's all about technique. Sure, I can pick up a cheap Wilson racquet and pull some kick serves, regardless of its 10 ounce weight and super HH balance. But when I pick up my main stick, I can pull some heavy ones.

sportsfan1
03-20-2012, 08:51 PM
You don't seem to mention whether you watched him hit the slice with his old racquet Prince Tour Diablo and whether it was any different? It likely wasn't, but that would be a point to use to convince him.

Deuces Wild
03-20-2012, 09:05 PM
Of course you will struggle with certain shots with a certain racquet. That's why you demo and avoid those sticks.

TennisCJC
03-20-2012, 09:13 PM
Within reason, I agree that skill/technique determine which shots you can hit rather than the racket or strings. But, I cannot imagine McEnroe playing as well with a 110" sq inch, stiff racket strung at 70 lbs. It also fits that Sampras played a small head heavy HL racket with a tight string bed and Agassi played large head relatively heavy rackets with tight strings.

To me, a player with good technique can play well with any reasonable racket. But, the flip side is certain rackets and string setups do optimize a players performance.

all_backhand
03-20-2012, 10:32 PM
You don't seem to mention whether you watched him hit the slice with his old racquet Prince Tour Diablo and whether it was any different? It likely wasn't, but that would be a point to use to convince him.

To be fair, I've never seen him hit with his Diablo. He's had the Babolats ever since I've known him (which has been for about 8 months). I was pointing to the fact that since I was capable of doing it, so was he. I'm not some supremely athletic superstar, and even if I was, hitting a slice backhand is hardly one of the more demanding athletic feats in tennis. Truth be told, he's arguably more athletically inclined than I am. If I can hit the shot with any number of racquets, so can he. His problem is technique.

I think there's an important distinction to be made between "optimal" and "capable." I'm not arguing that certain setups won't garner "optimal" results relative to other setups. I'm arguing that no reasonable setup will render an individual "incapable" of hitting a certain shot. It's not the equipment that prevents you from hitting a sharp angle, it's the fact that you didn't hit the outside of the ball and/or you didn't impart enough spin (lack of racquet head speed, failure to drop the racquet head beneath the flight of the ball, etc.) to keep the ball inside the lines.

user92626
03-20-2012, 11:11 PM
I was having a conversation with a friend today about tennis equipment and how it impacts game play, and he began to tell me about how he couldn't hit a slice backhand with his new racquet (Babolat Aerostorm GT). He told me how he could hit the shot perfectly well with his old racquet (Prince Tour Diablo MP), but he kept popping it up in the air with his new stick.

Now, he is not the first person to express this sentiment to me, but in the interest of humoring him, I asked him to show me. We get out on court and I feed him some backhands. Sure enough, he pops the next three balls into the air. They clear the net, but they look more like lobs than knifing, skidding, slices. Of course, he exclaims to me, "See, I told you I can't with this racquet!" I then tell him to use my stick (Dunlop Aerogel 4d 200 tour). He does a little better, but not much. The shots have lower clearance, but would still be best described as "floaters." I then have him feed me some balls with both racquets. I do find it slightly less comfortable to hit with the Bab (the feel is different), but all the backhands I hit clear the net by a foot or so at most, land past the service line, and skid through the court as I'm accustomed to having them do.

He asked me how I did that, and I calmly explained to him that technique is primarily responsible for any and every shot one hits and spent the next half hour or so helping him with his technique.

Now, like I said, he isn't the first person I've heard with this complaint. I've actually read several people complain about this very thing on these boards. I'm of the opinion that it's rather ridiculous to suggest there's such a thing as a shot you can hit with one racquet (or string combination for that matter) but can't with another. My question to you is what do you guys think about this? In your experience/estimation, is there such a thing as a shot that can be hit with one racquet, but can't with another?

For the record, I'd rate my friend between a 3.0 and 3.5, but that's of course subjective.

No offense, I think you're ridiculous to post this in the Racquets section. What's next? You gonna post the same thing in the Strings section?

This should belong in Tips and Instructions section.

By nature, in this section it's given that all rackets and their performance are all unique and warrant discussions of their distinctions, in every detail there possibly is.

KenC
03-20-2012, 11:24 PM
You obviously don't know much about racquets. :) If you want a lot of topspin you HAVE to hit with an APDGT. If you want to hit a booming serve, you HAVE to use a Pure Drive Roddick. If not, those two players wouldn't use those racquets, right? The racquet makes the player! Moreover, who knows more about tennis than the great people in Babolat Marketing who have done all the research for you?

I have tried again and again to help ween people from the marketing hype to no avail. Marketing hype and brand associations have a stranglehold on today's younger generation that is unbreakable. It's gotten to the point where people think they don't ever need lessons, they just need to buy a certain racquet. I give up and now encourage them to switch racquets every two weeks as the world economies are completely dependent on ever increasing overconsumption.

all_backhand
03-20-2012, 11:35 PM
No offense, I think you're ridiculous to post this in the Racquets section. What's next? You gonna post the same thing in the Strings section?

This should belong in Tips and Instructions section.

By nature, in this section it's given that all rackets and their performance are all unique and warrant discussions of their distinctions, in every detail there possibly is.

No offense? Really? Because the tone of your post suggests that you did, in fact, mean to offend. That being said, I take your point and I did wonder whether this was the correct section to post in. My rationale for posting in this section was derived from the fact that the question has everything to do with the variance in performance based specifically on the racquet in use. It wouldn't logically follow that I'd post this question in the strings section, because my friend didn't suggest that his performance was different due to the strings, he said it was due to the racquet. If you need me to draw any more parallels, you're more than welcome to make that request.

While I do understand your point, I disagree with you. If a moderator disagrees with me, I have no problem with the thread being moved.

user92626
03-20-2012, 11:37 PM
^^^ said the guy who has a gazillion rackets in his sig. Hmm...

But why the hell do you want to ween people off of new rackets or anything? That's like going in a bar and preach alcoholism is bad.


The stuffs give as much joy as the hitting for many people. This is..uh..fun tennis, man.

all_backhand
03-20-2012, 11:44 PM
You obviously don't know much about racquets. :) If you want a lot of topspin you HAVE to hit with an APDGT. If you want to hit a booming serve, you HAVE to use a Pure Drive Roddick. If not, those two players wouldn't use those racquets, right? The racquet makes the player! Moreover, who knows more about tennis than the great people in Babolat Marketing who have done all the research for you?

I have tried again and again to help ween people from the marketing hype to no avail. Marketing hype and brand associations have a stranglehold on today's younger generation that is unbreakable. It's gotten to the point where people think they don't ever need lessons, they just need to buy a certain racquet. I give up and now encourage them to switch racquets every two weeks as the world economies are completely dependent on ever increasing overconsumption.

Lol. Clearly :). I've seen some of your posts, Ken and I could never find anything logically fallacious with the nature of your arguments. If people want to keep drinking the koolaid, I'm fine with it. I won't try to knock the cup from their hands. I'm perfectly aware of the fact that every racquet is different and that certain specs lend themselves better to the performance of certain feats on court. That, however, doesn't mean that an individual is incapable of performing any of those feats without the aid of a certain, specialized racquet. I didn't posit this question to step on toes, I just wanted to read what people thought and to have a quality discussion.

user92626
03-20-2012, 11:45 PM
Relax, backhand. I was kidding with you :)

You could say your friend was wrong, but he could very well be right. Why? he could be a gear head like most people in here. And the fact that recreational tennis does not adhere to any standard, school or discipline, so someone's "technique" could be very dependent on equipment. Tough to argue or prove otherwise.

sansaephanh
03-20-2012, 11:47 PM
This thread has too much anger in it to be considered a thread anymore.

I suggest getting back to point or deleting the thread altogether.

all_backhand
03-20-2012, 11:55 PM
Relax, backhand. I was kidding with you :)

You could say your friend was wrong, but he could very well be right. Why? he could be a gear head like most people in here. And the fact that recreational tennis does not adhere to any standard, school or discipline, so someone's "technique" could be very dependent on equipment. Tough to argue or prove otherwise.

Ok. Then we're cool :)

I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm still of the opinion that "success," especially at the recreational level, is achieved more quickly and efficiently through improvement upon one's technique as opposed to switching gear. To each his own, though.

user92626
03-21-2012, 12:01 AM
Agreed, backhand

My 7 different rackets have given me hours upon hours of fun in stringing, wrapping, rewrapping overgrips and adjusting dampeners. I think I have had more than enough success. :)

KenC
03-21-2012, 01:50 AM
^^^ said the guy who has a gazillion rackets in his sig. Hmm...

But why the hell do you want to ween people off of new rackets or anything? That's like going in a bar and preach alcoholism is bad.


The stuffs give as much joy as the hitting for many people. This is..uh..fun tennis, man.

Someone woke up on the wrong side this morning. Go buy a new racquet, you'll be happier and play much better today.

Chyeaah
03-21-2012, 01:52 AM
Can't hit a decent backhand with any racquet.

KenC
03-21-2012, 03:25 AM
Can't hit a decent backhand with any racquet.

If you have a 1HBH you should buy a couple of Head YOUTEK IG Extreme Pro racquets. They hit amazing 1HBHs, just ask Gasquet, he uses one. I would stay away from the old and new Wilson 90s as those racquets seems to hit a lot of shanks with only occasional shots that are nothing short of amazing. If you hit a 2HBH I would suggest buying a couple of K6.1 95 18x20 which is what DelPo uses. Stay away from the Pro Tour BLX as it causes serious wrist problems. You might also have to buy a couple of the Juice Pro BLX if DelPo ever switches to it.

Hi I'm Ray
03-21-2012, 03:35 AM
If you have a 1HBH you should buy a couple of Head YOUTEK IG Extreme Pro racquets. They hit amazing 1HBHs, just ask Gasquet, he uses one. I would stay away from the old and new Wilson 90s as those racquets seems to hit a lot of shanks with only occasional shots that are nothing short of amazing. If you hit a 2HBH I would suggest buying a couple of K6.1 95 18x20 which is what DelPo uses. Stay away from the Pro Tour BLX as it causes serious wrist problems. You might also have to buy a couple of the Juice Pro BLX if DelPo ever switches to it.

Lol. What are you up to :)

Chyeaah
03-21-2012, 03:48 AM
Lol. What are you up to :)

His epicly failing at trying to troll me.

So, if i wan't a reaaaaally good forehand i have to get a APD (Orig) and somehow get RPM Blast at 1.35mm strung at 54 pounds?

KenC
03-21-2012, 03:49 AM
^^^ I'm just bored and having a little fun myth-busting on the board. My hitting coach is sick today and cancelled our session. If he used a Babolat maybe he wouldn't have gotten sick but he would probably have horrible TE!

KenC
03-21-2012, 03:51 AM
His epicly failing at trying to troll me.

So, if i wan't a reaaaaally good forehand i have to get a APD (Orig) and somehow get RPM Blast at 1.35mm strung at 54 pounds?

Don't forget the Nike bandana or it doesn't work.

Hi I'm Ray
03-21-2012, 04:09 AM
I think certainly some rackets fit a player better for certain shots. Otherwise we wouldn't need to demo.

I have an westen 1H backhand that I usually attack with and swing quite fast, so too much difference in weight/swingweight/weight distrubution can throw it off - with a fast swing being a little too late or too early makes a big difference, especially on the backhand side. Certainly I can still pick up a random stick and hit a topspin backhand with it, but if I cannot attack with it and consistently (usually unlikely with a random stick) then I'm not hitting my shot with it.

KenC
03-21-2012, 04:37 AM
I think certainly some rackets fit a player better for certain shots. Otherwise we wouldn't need to demo.

That is the key. For every player there is the best fit racquet. We should demo and demo until we find that racquet, and not fall for the marketing hype and just go out and buy what the current no. 1 is using.

Sreeram
03-21-2012, 06:40 AM
There are some shots that are clearly favored by few racquets and some shots that are not that easy.
Having said that backhand slice is a natural shot for many players. For me I had to develop it. In my view I got this shot easily with Aero Storm Tour GT. May the thin fame made it easy to focus more on the ball because it is easy to bring the racquet quickly once you are sure about the ball. Thicker beam racquets are tough to slice because it takes takes time to bring the racquet down to the contact point.

Also your friend might have played with a racquet that is slow to slice and hence he would have always got used to playing the slice little early to compensate for the slow moving racquet. Now that Aero moves faster his timing is off.

KenC
03-21-2012, 07:28 AM
There are some shots that are clearly favored by few racquets and some shots that are not that easy.

This is true. For some reason I serve the best with the PSLGT. I don't serve well with a PDR which is touted as the serve monster. I also hit my best topspin forehand with it, and not with the APDGT. I don't hit my best backhand with it, and hit my best topspin backhands with the PS85. I also hit better BHs with the K90 and BLX90. But overall, for all the shots I hit, I get them all done the best with the PSLGT. It's a shame because I actually like playing with the K90 and the K95 18x20 more but they don't work as well for my overall game.

But, tennis is more than just topspin forehands OR serves and we must all find a racquet that does those two plus about 30 other shots well enough. To buy a racquet to produce maximum topspin on the forehand might end up making the rest of the game suffer even more.