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Charleyk24
04-14-2012, 08:40 PM
hi there

i just bought new gamma progression 2 els

well i notice fixed clamp moving too much

pls give me some advice

here is my video

http://www.youtube.com/user/charleyk24

thank you

Squidward
04-15-2012, 06:39 AM
Contact the dealer/mrg. They should make it right if this is a new stringer.

gmatheis
04-15-2012, 08:49 AM
i would wait for someone like Irvin to see this, because I believe even fixed clamps have some give in them so that may be normal.

Faithfulfather
04-15-2012, 09:07 AM
It will move less when there are other strings there to support it. I have a X-6 FC with a Wise head and my clampls move just a little less. I have never tried it the way you are doing it in the video. There are some locking nuts size 17mm under the base that you can tighten LIGHTLY.

ATP100
04-15-2012, 09:54 AM
That is normal.

monomer
04-15-2012, 10:09 AM
If you contact Gamma hopefully you have better luck than I did. I called them and briefly spoke to someone about a problem on my 6004. I was told to leave a voice mail with a tech. detailing the problem. He never returned my call.

Disappointing on a $1000+ machine that is a few months old.

4sound
04-15-2012, 11:22 AM
I think that looks like a normal amount of float. All machines have a little bit of float.

When I had a Progression II, it had a little more float than on my current machine (6004) but it's very consistent. When I first got the 6004 I was getting more float on one side. You can adjust the base clamp to be a little tighter. You have to make sure you don't over tighten or your base will get damaged.

On the Progression II, I believe, the bolt under the base on the clamp is what you need to adjust, but check the manual.

jim e
04-15-2012, 11:47 AM
Granted most machines have some drawback but this seems an excessive amount.The amount that the base is moving would account for a decent amount of tension loss, and it looks like there is more loss on some angled pulls, depending on the angle to the base, so this would give inconsistant results.Drawback is usually just a very slight if any movement between the clamp and base, as this looks like the whole base clamp section is flexing, and it seems to flex more in certain directions, not good. It even looks like the base clamp moves up away from the table itself, and that should not happen.

Your problem looks more than just drawback, as it is moving a good deal. I would find it hard to believe that this amount of drawback is normal. You should e-mail Gamma and show them your video. If they say thats the normal drawback then I would ask for a different machine model that they would know would be less.Maybe its just tightening the base down a little more so the movement is less. I would try that 1st, and if still persistant the same amount I would contact Gamma.

I would like to know what the new Gamma Tech would say about this one.

Irvin
04-15-2012, 01:18 PM
I agree with 'Jim e' that is an excessive amount of movement. I would think that your base is not adjusted correctly and needs to be tightened. Your lever appear to be turned almost all the way around to the post. Mine does not go that far but I have a different clamp that you do.

Charleyk24
04-15-2012, 02:10 PM
Thank you for your advice
I still communicate John with gamma sports
Hopefully I will get good result

Thanks again

jmpsmash
04-15-2012, 03:36 PM
that's a inherent problem with the Gamma design. their material choice of using an extrude Aluminum turntable results in a pretty soft turntable platform. on top of that the clamp track is part of the turntable, which means the clamp rides in Aluminum tracks. the result is that a decent amount of sideways force can force the track to bend under stress and causing the clamp movement.

other manufacturers have a separate steel track.

nothing much can be done about this aside from a redesign from Gamma, or perhaps a way to reinforce the turntable.

here is a video i took showing the problem in more clarity. in the video i am pulling the clamp sideways using my WISE @ 60lbs.

i have already tighten up the base pretty well so there is no slippage or play due to lack in clamping force.

i mainly string badminton rackets and this is not big of an issue there with most tension under 30lbs, but with tennis i can see this is a bigger issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2Om8L5oKQU

gmatheis
04-15-2012, 04:25 PM
that's a inherent problem with the Gamma design. their material choice of using an extrude Aluminum turntable results in a pretty soft turntable platform. on top of that the clamp track is part of the turntable, which means the clamp rides in Aluminum tracks. the result is that a decent amount of sideways force can force the track to bend under stress and causing the clamp movement.

other manufacturers have a separate steel track.

nothing much can be done about this aside from a redesign from Gamma, or perhaps a way to reinforce the turntable.

here is a video i took showing the problem in more clarity. in the video i am pulling the clamp sideways using my WISE @ 60lbs.

i have already tighten up the base pretty well so there is no slippage or play due to lack in clamping force.

i mainly string badminton rackets and this is not big of an issue there with most tension under 30lbs, but with tennis i can see this is a bigger issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2Om8L5oKQU

Great Video !!

Are the alphas reinforced better than the gammas? or are they about the same?

Charleyk24
04-15-2012, 11:17 PM
Hello Charley,

Thank you for sending the video.  The movement that you are seeing is
normal, particularly for the way that you have set up the clamp base.
The way you have it oriented in relation to the gripper is such that
you are pulling the string from the "string clamp" back across and
over the end of the "clamp base" that is securing the clamp base to
the turntable table. Pulling that way will allow a lot of room for the
flexing between the 2 attachment points.

Try pulling string again, but this time rotate the clamp base 180
degrees. You will notice that there will be much less movement. The
reason is that you will now have eliminated the stress on the clamp
base and the pulling tension will actually assist the force at which
the clamp base is being held to the turntable rather than conflicting
with it.

Study the photos in the machine manual and note the orientation of the
clamp base relative to the tensioner. By positioning the clamp base as
it is in the photos you will notice a lot less movement.

Hope this made sense.  If not please feel free to call me any time.

Regards,
John Matechen
Stringing Machine Service Director/Technician
GAMMA Sports
200 Waterfront Drive
Pittsburgh PA  15222
cad@gammasports.com
T: 800.333.0337 (ext. 226)
F: 412.323.0317


• Website  • Facebook • Twitter





On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Leslie Kukleski <tsr@gammasports.com> wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Charley Kim <charleyk24@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 2:36 AM
Subject: Fwd: My stringing machine
To: tsr@gammasports.com


hi there
i just got gamma string machine(progression els) from DO IT TENNIS (customer
order #65650)
i attach the video file
is it ok or something wrong?
thank you
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Charley Kim <charleyk24@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 8:12 PM
Subject: My stringing machine
To: Andy <andy@doittennis.com>


Hi Andy
I send the video
Is it normal moving or something wrong?




Charley Kim

Charleyk24
04-15-2012, 11:24 PM
Hello Charley,

Thank you for sending the video.  The movement that you are seeing is
normal, particularly for the way that you have set up the clamp base.
The way you have it oriented in relation to the gripper is such that
you are pulling the string from the "string clamp" back across and
over the end of the "clamp base" that is securing the clamp base to
the turntable table. Pulling that way will allow a lot of room for the
flexing between the 2 attachment points.

Try pulling string again, but this time rotate the clamp base 180
degrees. You will notice that there will be much less movement. The
reason is that you will now have eliminated the stress on the clamp
base and the pulling tension will actually assist the force at which
the clamp base is being held to the turntable rather than conflicting
with it.

Study the photos in the machine manual and note the orientation of the
clamp base relative to the tensioner. By positioning the clamp base as
it is in the photos you will notice a lot less movement.

Hope this made sense.  If not please feel free to call me any time.

Regards,
John Matechen
Stringing Machine Service Director/Technician
GAMMA Sports
200 Waterfront Drive
Pittsburgh PA  15222
cad@gammasports.com
T: 800.333.0337 (ext. 226)
F: 412.323.0317


• Website  • Facebook • Twitter





On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Leslie Kukleski <tsr@gammasports.com> wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Charley Kim <charleyk24@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 2:36 AM
Subject: Fwd: My stringing machine
To: tsr@gammasports.com


hi there
i just got gamma string machine(progression els) from DO IT TENNIS (customer
order #65650)
i attach the video file
is it ok or something wrong?
thank you
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Charley Kim <charleyk24@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 8:12 PM
Subject: My stringing machine
To: Andy <andy@doittennis.com>


Hi Andy
I send the video
Is it normal moving or something wrong?




Charley Kim

Charleyk24
04-15-2012, 11:26 PM
Hello Kim,

I think you are still experiencing movement based on how you have the
clamp base set up in relation to the direction you are pulling the
string.  Other than that there is no way the clamps can flex and cause
that much movement. I think you are see some flexing due to the
orientation of the clamp base vs the direction you are pulling.  Try
experimenting by keeping the "string clamp" on a string.  Do not move
it. But try rotating the "clamp base" 90 degrees at a time making a
pull each time. Observe any movement. You will see that at some points
there is a lot of movement and at other positions there is none. I
think when you see where the clamp stops moving, or dramatically
reduces, you will have found the proper way to orient the clamp.

Hope this helped.

Best regards,
John Matechen
Stringing Machine Service Director/Technician
GAMMA Sports
200 Waterfront Drive
Pittsburgh PA  15222
cad@gammasports.com
T: 800.333.0337 (ext. 226)
F: 412.323.0317


• Website  • Facebook • Twitter





On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 1:51 AM, Charley Kim <charleyk24@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi John
It's still moving
Is it ok?
Or am I wrong again?
Thank you





Charley Kim

jmpsmash
04-16-2012, 12:27 AM
that's the usual replies from John.

"yes, this may look bad, but this is normal."

actually, the reply you get is even worse.

"hey, but if you do this and this to put your head in the sand, then voila you don't see it anymore!"

mchjhn
04-16-2012, 05:11 AM
If you contact Gamma hopefully you have better luck than I did. I called them and briefly spoke to someone about a problem on my 6004. I was told to leave a voice mail with a tech. detailing the problem. He never returned my call.

Disappointing on a $1000+ machine that is a few months old.

you complained about not getting a response in this thread, and dude was all over it later on. i guess you like to carry a grudge

mchjhn
04-16-2012, 05:12 AM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=420634

Charleyk24
04-16-2012, 05:37 AM
Hello Charley,

Thank you for sending the videos.  The flexing that you are seeing is
normal.  As you moved the orientations of the clamp base and compared
videos it is easy to see that the amount of flexing is less pronounced
as seen in video number 9.  That orientation is the way you should set
up the clamps you string the racquet.

The flexing that you are seeing will not affect the stringing of the
racquet and is normal.

John Matechen
Stringing Machine Service Director/Technician
GAMMA Sports
200 Waterfront Drive
Pittsburgh PA  15222
cad@gammasports.com
T: 800.333.0337 (ext. 226)
F: 412.323.0317


• Website  • Facebook • Twitter





On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Charley Kim <charleyk24@gmail.com> wrote:






Charley Kim

Charleyk24
04-16-2012, 05:39 AM
http://www.youtube.com/user/charleyk24

mad dog1
04-16-2012, 09:50 AM
http://www.youtube.com/user/charleyk24

hey Charley, i just watched your latest video. i owned a Gamma 6004 w/ the switch action swivel clamps and observed about 1/8" to 1/4" drawback when i clamped the string and released tension. the amount of drawback i see in your video appears to be in the neighborhood of ~1/4" maybe a bit more but it looks like you're pulling tension on the string clamp which doesn't happen during the course of stringing a racquet. if that's the case, i would say it's normal. i do think you'd experience a bit more drawback because the switch action bases on the 6004 are much beefier and likely more rigid than the fixed clamp bases of your machine which could explain why i experience less drawback. it was because i was not happy with the amount of table flex in jmpsmash's video, the flex in the tension bar and the amount of drawback in the clamps compared to the prince neos 1000 which i was coming from that i decided to go all out and spring for a babolat sensor. the babolat turntable doesn't flex at all and the clamps have very little drawback.

can you mount a racquet, string a few mains and then take a video of the amount of drawback you get when you release tension. this would be a better gauge of whether there's a problem.

mchjhn
04-16-2012, 10:20 AM
that's the usual replies from John.

"yes, this may look bad, but this is normal."

actually, the reply you get is even worse.

"hey, but if you do this and this to put your head in the sand, then voila you don't see it anymore!"

i disagree with this assessment. your not sticking your head in the sand. the clamps are moving because you are using the machine in a way that rarely happens. there is no tension on the other side of the string, like it would be when stringing.

i know some of you will respond saying, "this will happen when you are stringing a racquet, and need to pull the 1st main." Well, if you are concerned, then do the Yusuki method (pull two mains at the same time, clamp off with one baseclamp, clamp the other side with the starting clamp).

then the "issue" will be resolved. any draw back will be removed as you string until you get to the last main, or cross when you tie off. those aren't an issue because the string is considerably shorter than other sections of the frame.

just my two cents, don't think its an issue.

Charleyk24
04-16-2012, 03:23 PM
John Matechen cad@gammasports.com
11:58 AM (1 hour ago)

to me
Hello Charley,

I spoke with our engineers and forwarded your videos, including the
last one, you sent. The conclusion is that the deflection that you
are seeing is in fact normal. The amount of deflection seems
pronounced since you are pulling free against the clamp and clamp
base.

Try stringing a racquet and notice the drawback. You will see a
dramatic decrease in deflection once you have a racquet in the
suspension system and start stringing.

Best regards,

mad dog1
04-16-2012, 04:37 PM
John Matechen cad@gammasports.com
11:58 AM (1 hour ago)

to me
Hello Charley,

I spoke with our engineers and forwarded your videos, including the
last one, you sent. The conclusion is that the deflection that you
are seeing is in fact normal. The amount of deflection seems
pronounced since you are pulling free against the clamp and clamp
base.

Try stringing a racquet and notice the drawback. You will see a
dramatic decrease in deflection once you have a racquet in the
suspension system and start stringing.

Best regards,

this is what i was trying to say in my post above.

Irvin
04-17-2012, 02:34 AM
this is what i was trying to say in my post above.

Yes until you release the tensioner and have tension applied by the string in only one direction. It appeared to me the base was not tight enough and if that is the case you will have excessive drawback because you will only have tension in one direction. All the drawback will not be pulled out when you tension the next string either but most of it.

monomer
04-17-2012, 08:10 AM
you complained about not getting a response in this thread, and dude was all over it later on. i guess you like to carry a grudge

I was told to leave a message and I would get a return call. I still have not received a return call or remedied my problem.

If that is your idea of a grudge then so be it.

monomer
04-17-2012, 08:18 AM
To update my above post - I now see that Gamma Tech had replied in my other thread. I did not see this reply - it was after a few days of inactivity in the thread which I thought was dead. As you can probably tell by my post count, I do not camp out here.

I took the time to call Gamma and was promised a return call. I did not plan to monitor the activity here for days on the chance that I might get a reply. I will follow up on the problem and report the eventual outcome here.

Charleyk24
05-21-2012, 05:58 PM
hi there

i just bought new gamma progression 2 els

well i notice fixed clamp moving too much

pls give me some advice

here is my video

http://www.youtube.com/user/charleyk24

thank you

thank you again all your advise

finally gamma will ship new turntable with clamps&bases
we, i & jhon (gamma) agree with those problems somehow
1, clamp base bottom is not flat
2. turntable leaning toward tentioner when pulling tention
i wil update when i got new turntable

thank you again all your advise

Charleyk24
05-21-2012, 06:01 PM
hi there

i just bought new gamma progression 2 els

well i notice fixed clamp moving too much

pls give me some advice

here is my video

http://www.youtube.com/user/charleyk24

thank you

thank you again all your advise

finally gamma will ship new turntable with clamps&bases

we, i & john (gamma) agree with those problems somehow
1, clamp base bottom is not flat
2. turntable leaning toward tensioner when pulling tension

i wil update when i got new turntable

thank you again all your advise