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Wuppy
04-27-2012, 11:24 AM
I usually use 17-18 gauge string and the starting pin I got from Klippermate works ok with those, but yesterday I was stringing a friend's racquet and she uses 16 gauge. The flying clamp kept slipping off the starting pin :evil: Clearly the pin gauge is too small.

So what I had to do was cut a small 4" length off the half of the string I was gonna use for crosses, tie a knot in it and use it as a starting pin :shock:

Some day clearly gonna have to get a starting clamp, but the though of spending $40 on one really makes me POd.

KerryR
04-27-2012, 11:29 AM
There are a few other ways to start without a pin or starting clamp.
Go here:
http://www.stringerspad.com/flyloop.html

This shows some methods for use with flying clamps that don't use a starting clamp...

Wuppy
04-27-2012, 11:35 AM
Here are the problems with those other methods:

Jay Cee Method: A complete mess because the center mains aren't directly tensioned.

YULitle Method: Requires putting a flying clamp on the outside of the frame, requires a scrap of string to go in the second side of the flying clamp.

KerryR
04-27-2012, 12:20 PM
I don't like K'mates starting pin because the drawback is pretty pronounced as the rubber squishes, and because I don't like putting metal in my clamps. Using a string and a stopper knot sounds like a fine alternative.

But:

Jay Cee's method actually works fine with the (his) addition of pushing down with the thumbs on L2 and L1 while each is under tension to equalize the tensions from the double pull. Not empirical by any means, but still an effective and fast work around for those without a starting clamp or pin. As far as I know, this is still John Eliot's preferred start by choice, not because he can't afford a starting clamp, so I assume he's found it effective for his players.

For YULitle, it's not a big deal to put the flyer on the outside of the frame; it's just a stand-in for a starting clamp that'd be used in exactly the same way. Folks that don't like metal on graphite sometimes pad with rubber. It's not a big deal to stick a scrap of string in the other side of the clamp (you usually have plenty kicking around after removing the old strings or from previous jobs), or, if you loosen the keeper nut on the K-mate flyers, you can adjust the tension very quickly for one string. I only ever finger tightened the keeper nut, which allowed me to adjust them as necessary for different gages and situations.

Larrysümmers
04-27-2012, 02:41 PM
thats weird, never had a problem with mine

Fearsome Forehand
04-27-2012, 03:08 PM
I have strung many a racket and not once have I ever used a starting pin.

Larrysümmers
04-27-2012, 06:27 PM
ive strung 1 racket on the KM without the pin

aussie
05-02-2012, 03:58 PM
Hundreds of stringjobs on a Kmate using the starting pin with all gauges and never one slip. Unusual problem and maybe worthh your while to contact Dave at Klipper.

jgrushing
05-02-2012, 04:26 PM
Agreed. Hundreds and hundreds of racquets using starting pin. No problems and my clamps are 20 years old. Apparently, clamping to metal once per job isn't really catastrophic. I can't believe the lengths people go to to avoids non-problems.

KerryR
05-03-2012, 07:25 AM
Agreed. Hundreds and hundreds of racquets using starting pin. No problems and my clamps are 20 years old. Apparently, clamping to metal once per job isn't really catastrophic. I can't believe the lengths people go to to avoids non-problems.

There is a certain attractiveness to the simplicity and directness of the starting pin solution.

However, it's not like the starting sequences that avoid a starting pin are difficult, inconvenient, or ineffective.

In fact, one might argue that a starting pin actually adds (minor) complexity in order to avoid a non-problem.

In the end though, I don't think it actually matters.

I only posted the links to the other starts because I thought the OP wanted to stop using a starting pin, not because I thought the methods were superior to using a pin.

Wuppy
05-03-2012, 07:54 AM
I appreciate it, and I'd love to stop using a starting pin but I don't think those methods are desirable. I'm gonna have to save up for a starting clamp I guess. I just can't bring myself to plop down $40 for something like that.

I tried it again recently with 18 gauge string and the clamp slipped off the pin again. The only thing I could think of was a build up of that slimy stuff they put on some strings, so I cleaned the clamps. Will have to see next time if it helps.

However, what I'm also going to do is buy some sand paper and "rough up" the starting pin so that the clamps aren't trying to hold onto smooth metal.

KerryR
05-03-2012, 08:22 AM
What's wrong with using the starting pin you made from a knotted string?

Wuppy
05-03-2012, 08:47 AM
What's wrong with using the starting pin you made from a knotted string?

The issue I found with that was the tension would elongate and pull the knot into the grommet hole just enough to lose some pounds of tension on the string it was clamped to.

I've seen on some youtube video a guy who tied a length of string to a keyring which prevents such a thing from happening.

Another thing I tried awhile back was take a longer length of string, tie a knot in it, pass it through the starting pin grommet then string it through the other side of the racquet like a normal string, and tie a weight to the end. This way it's tensioned somewhat, like a normal string.

Irvin
05-03-2012, 08:57 AM
What's wrong with using the starting pin you made from a knotted string?

The issue I found with that was the tension would elongate and pull the knot into the grommet hole just enough to lose some pounds of tension on the string it was clamped to...

When you use a start pin there is going to be some drawback on the clamped string no matter what. Live with it that is how flying clamps work. When you pull tension on the clamped string all that drawback is gone and any tension you lost has now be recovered.

Wuppy
05-03-2012, 09:07 AM
Yes I understand there will be some pullback but we were talking a full cm in some instances, which is far too much IMHO.

Irvin
05-03-2012, 09:50 AM
^^I would agree that 1 cm is too much drawback. If you have that much your homemade start pin doesn't work. You may want to string a piece of poly or kevlar instead of what you are using. Also you need some tension on the string of your homemade start pin in order for it to work but hand tight should work.

You have to remember there are many people that don't use a start pin or a starting clamp. I'm sure many of them do excellent work.

Kevo
05-03-2012, 12:56 PM
Did you adjust your clamps with the change in string gauge? Have you cleaned them? I never had a problem with the starting pin when I was using a KM. I assume these clamps are the ones that are like vice grips and have the floating center spacer? That shouldn't slip unless it needs to be cleaned, or it's not adjusted properly.

max
05-03-2012, 02:25 PM
Call Klippermate. They'll immediately spot what's going on. It's an 800-call; number's on your machine.

Never had this happen. Perhaps your clamps themselves need adjustment. That's normal enough.

Wuppy
05-03-2012, 03:10 PM
ah here's the thing, they're Gamma X-2 plastic clamps, you see. I bought the pin separately from Klipper.

jgrushing
05-03-2012, 05:55 PM
IMO, there's the problem. I own Gamma clamps and Klippermate clamps. Nothing against Gamma at all but I find that the KM clamps work far better. For some reason, people have a problem with the fact that KM clamps are based on vise grip pliers. They work great, folks! Easily adjustable and extremely durable.

Wuppy
05-03-2012, 08:41 PM
Yeah, the plastic clamp does ok on the strings, but it's not very good on the metal pin. I'd love the Klipper clamps but can't justify spending $70 for 2.

jgrushing
05-04-2012, 05:26 AM
Sorry, didn't realize that you don't have the KM clamps.

KerryR
05-04-2012, 07:51 AM
Sounds like your best option, then, is going to be to rough up the Klipper pin to get it to stick to the plastic clamp. Sure seems, though, that clamping metal in the plastic clamp would eventually leave a depression in the plastic, which may already have happened.

I guess, before you do that, you should just clean the clamps and pin thoroughly, and see if that solves the issue.

I bet you could over-stretch a used piece of poly, thereby removing most, if not all, the stretch, and make a pin from that. Perhaps that'd solve the excessive drawback issue.

Or use Kevlar, but you may not have that laying around unless you're one of the relatively few who uses it in your hybrids. Perhaps someone here could send you a tail from one of their jobs...

Or, you could just simplify everything and use a method that doesn't use a pin or starting clamp, and roll with whatever inadequacies there are in doing so..

max
05-04-2012, 09:39 AM
IMO, there's the problem. I own Gamma clamps and Klippermate clamps. Nothing against Gamma at all but I find that the KM clamps work far better. For some reason, people have a problem with the fact that KM clamps are based on vise grip pliers. They work great, folks! Easily adjustable and extremely durable.

Agree in total! Good gear.

Wuppy
05-04-2012, 10:43 AM
thanks guys, very helpful thread, I appreciate the suggestions.