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View Full Version : Who will have a better record at Wimbledon - Becker or Nadal?


tennis_pro
05-22-2012, 10:17 PM
Let's get into detail:

Becker:
1) 1985, 1986, 1989 champion, reached another 4 finals in 1988, 1990, 1991, 1995.
2) In the 1985-1995 period only once lost before the the quarters and only twice lost before the semis.
3) The only Wimbledon final from 1985-1991 in which Becker didn't play was 1987.
4) Overall a 71-12 record (85,5 % matches won)

Nadal so far:
1) 2008, 2010 champion, another 3 finals in 2006,2007, 2011
2) Last time he missed a Wimbledon final (not counting his absence in 2009) was 2005. Reached the final in all of his recent 5 Wimbledons.
3) A 35-5 record so far (88 %)

Biscuitmcgriddleson
05-22-2012, 10:50 PM
I think Nadal will end up with less losses at Wimbledon, but Becker will be considered a better grass court player.

Russeljones
05-22-2012, 10:58 PM
Becker is almost synonymous with grass. Can't really see Nadal equaling his achievements.

stringertom
05-22-2012, 11:15 PM
Boom Boom played in Wimby's grass court era. Had Nadal played then, many 3R exits would have occurred.

NadalAgassi
05-22-2012, 11:26 PM
I think Nadal will end up with something like 4 titles and 8 finals, so he will have the better record. Becker played in a much tougher grass era though, the Sampras one.

Biscuitmcgriddleson
05-22-2012, 11:46 PM
I think Nadal will end up with something like 4 titles and 8 finals, so he will have the better record. Becker played in a much tougher grass era though, the Sampras one.

He also played in an era called the Becker era.

Wolfman Jack
05-22-2012, 11:48 PM
Boom Boom played in Wimby's grass court era. Had Nadal played then, many 3R exits would have occurred.
The same could be said of any of the current crop of players, who didn't have to play on "real" grass.

Loose Cannon
05-23-2012, 12:14 AM
People will cling to any kind of excuse to discredit Rafa.......kind of sad

Biscuitmcgriddleson
05-23-2012, 12:17 AM
People will cling to any kind of excuse to discredit Rafa.......kind of sad

So you're saying Nadal would be as dominant on fast grass?

Feather
05-23-2012, 02:49 AM
Boom Boom played in Wimby's grass court era. Had Nadal played then, many 3R exits would have occurred.

Quoted for truth !

namelessone
05-23-2012, 02:59 AM
Quoted for truth !

How do you know that Nadal would play exactly the same if he were born in a different era? I mean, he would have seen different tech on rackets, there were no polys back then and so on. Nadal is a product of his era, as were all past champions.

Gorecki
05-23-2012, 03:09 AM
The same could be said of any of the current crop of players, who didn't have to play on "real" grass.

your point?

10 nadatards

Tennis_Hands
05-23-2012, 03:11 AM
They will probably be about the same.

Gorecki
05-23-2012, 03:14 AM
How do you know that Nadal would play exactly the same if he were born in a different era? I mean, he would have seen different tech on rackets, there were no polys back then and so on. Nadal is a product of his era, as were all past champions.

you have the answer in your own words. how many players from the spanish school (lets call it that to avoid the common "neighbour jealousy" stupidity by the lone dork et. al.) dominated in the past Generations?
...

tennis_pro
05-23-2012, 04:01 AM
I think Nadal will end up with something like 4 titles and 8 finals, so he will have the better record. Becker played in a much tougher grass era though, the Sampras one.

I disagree. Becker won all 3 of his Wimbledon titles before Sampras' 18th birthday, he reached 6 of his 7 finals before Sampras was even a contender for the title. Sampras got him a few times (1993, 1995, 1997) but one could argue Becker had his best tennis behind him (apart from a few good patches mostly in 95/96)

Feather
05-23-2012, 04:06 AM
How do you know that Nadal would play exactly the same if he were born in a different era? I mean, he would have seen different tech on rackets, there were no polys back then and so on. Nadal is a product of his era, as were all past champions.

That's why the product of the era never was able to get beyond the SF of Cincinnati, the only real fast hard court on tour. :)

namelessone
05-23-2012, 04:35 AM
That's why the product of the era never was able to get beyond the SF of Cincinnati, the only real fast hard court on tour. :)

How could Nadal make it to the SF of a truly fast tournament? 3R at best for him.

THUNDERVOLLEY
05-23-2012, 06:14 AM
Becker is almost synonymous with grass. Can't really see Nadal equaling his achievements.

Agreed--he emerged between the reign of grass legends McEnroe and Sampras and still stands (historically) as a force all his own in that period of grass court excellence.

kragster
05-23-2012, 06:30 AM
That's why the product of the era never was able to get beyond the SF of Cincinnati, the only real fast hard court on tour. :)

Dude although there are similarities between all fast courts, it would be very simplistic to make a direct comparison between fast HC and fast grass. For one thing, movement on any type of grass is different from movement on any type of HC. Nadal is known to be an excellent mover on grass. Also historically there are folks like Lendl who excelled at fast HC but never won Wimby. Undeniably there is a good correlation between doing well on different types of fast surfaces but the correlation is nothing close to 100%.

I'm a Sampras fan but if Fed got to 7 Wimby's, I'd be the first to say he is equal or better than Sampras on grass. Hell even with 6 Wimby's I consider them close, never mind that ALL of Fed's wimby's came on this slower grass.I think it is somewhat biased to discredit Rafa's wimbys but give Fed full credit for his.

We can/should measure people/achievements only on what happened not on what could/should/was likely to have happened. The fact that Murray hasn't won a slam, Santoro has a 7-2 H2H vs Safin etc show that what you think should happen on paper may be very different what ends up happening.

monfed
05-23-2012, 06:35 AM
LOL@comparing Becker a grass courter to the dirtballer. Good joke.

And LOL@comparing the dirtballer to Fed's grass court prowess when Fed beat the king of grass on fast grass playing S&V tennis. Good joke.

Feather
05-23-2012, 06:52 AM
Dude although there are similarities between all fast courts, it would be very simplistic to make a direct comparison between fast HC and fast grass. For one thing, movement on any type of grass is different from movement on any type of HC. Nadal is known to be an excellent mover on grass. Also historically there are folks like Lendl who excelled at fast HC but never won Wimby. Undeniably there is a good correlation between doing well on different types of fast surfaces but the correlation is nothing close to 100%.

I'm a Sampras fan but if Fed got to 7 Wimby's, I'd be the first to say he is equal or better than Sampras on grass. Hell even with 6 Wimby's I consider them close, never mind that ALL of Fed's wimby's came on this slower grass.I think it is somewhat biased to discredit Rafa's wimbys but give Fed full credit for his.

We can/should measure people/achievements only on what happened not on what could/should have happened.

Firstly, I was not trying to give credit to Roger's Wimbledon's and discredit Rafa. I don't get into hypothetical arguments with if case.

Secondly, I was not making a simplistic comparison between fast HC and grass and make judgements either.

He said Rafa is a product of an era and he will adjust to situations accordingly. My question was if that was the case then why he couldn't adjust to Cincinnati? Irrespective of it's hard court or grass, the product of the era could have adjusted to any surface existing at that time, right?

dudeski
05-23-2012, 06:57 AM
Let's get into detail:

Becker:
1) 1985, 1986, 1989 champion, reached another 4 finals in 1988, 1990, 1991, 1995.
2) In the 1985-1995 period only once lost before the the quarters and only twice lost before the semis.
3) The only Wimbledon final from 1985-1991 in which Becker didn't play was 1987.
4) Overall a 71-12 record (85,5 % matches won)

Nadal so far:
1) 2008, 2010 champion, another 3 finals in 2006,2007, 2011
2) Last time he missed a Wimbledon final (not counting his absence in 2009) was 2005. Reached the final in all of his recent 5 Wimbledons.
3) A 35-5 record so far (88 %)

Didn't Becker reach R16 when he was 16 and won it at 17 for the first time. I think that pretty much answers your question. We can't blame Boris for turning to drugs due to lack of worthy competition.

kragster
05-23-2012, 07:06 AM
Firstly, I was not trying to give credit to Roger's Wimbledon's and discredit Rafa. I don't get into hypothetical arguments with if case.

Secondly, I was not making a simplistic comparison between fast HC and grass and make judgements either.

He said Rafa is a product of an era and he will adjust to situations accordingly. My question was if that was the case then why he couldn't adjust to Cincinnati? Irrespective of it's hard court or grass, the product of the era could have adjusted to any surface existing at that time, right?

But that's exactly the point that Cincinnati is 1 surface in a calendar of slow events! How much time would you spend making adjustments to your game if only 20% of the surfaces in a year are fast (current) vs how much time would you make adjustments if 50% of surfaces are fast. Right now Nadal has the 'option' to not adapt to fast courts and still potentially be ranked no 1. Nadal could skip the entire post USO season and still finish top 5.

monfed
05-23-2012, 07:08 AM
*******s don't wanna be honest about it but unfortunately for them it's clear to anyone with half a brain that he would have won diddly squat on the fast grass of the 90s. Claydal almost lost to Hasse and Petzner at his peak when the grass is somewhat quicker in the first week(not even close to the 90s still).

And then comparing Federer to Claydal(oh the audacity of it all) for not having won Wimby on fast grass when he did beat the king of grass playing S&V tennis,not a baseline game mind you. The only reason why Federer didn't win Wimby that year was because he was a headcase in his teen years, a well documented fact. His game was plenty good to win Wimby on fast grass maybe not 6 times but atleast 2-3 times.

And to those who say that Fed too benefitted from the slow grass should realise that if the grass was as fast as the 90s, Claydal wouldn't have got out of the first week let alone win a Wimby, while Fed wouldve won atleast 2-3 Wimbys if not 6 with some S&V tennis.

NadalAgassi
05-23-2012, 10:08 PM
I disagree. Becker won all 3 of his Wimbledon titles before Sampras' 18th birthday, he reached 6 of his 7 finals before Sampras was even a contender for the title. Sampras got him a few times (1993, 1995, 1997) but one could argue Becker had his best tennis behind him (apart from a few good patches mostly in 95/96)

if Becker were that far past his best he wouldnt have kept playing Sampras so many times. OK I will give you 97, but 93 and 95 he was still playing some excellent tennis. Contrast that to Federer who isnt even reaching Nadal at Wimbledon anymore, Becker apparently wasnt as far past his best on grass as Federer is today, and Federer is still a top 3 player in the World. So obviously Becker was still very strong at that point to keep reaching Sampras, and to have NO bad losses at Wimbledon until he retired. After his last title in 89 these were his losses:

1990- final to Edberg in 5 sets
1991- final to Stich
1992- quarter to Agassi in 5 sets (in midst of 8 match losing streak to Agassi)
1993- semis to Sampras
1994- semis to Ivanisevic
1995- final to Sampras
1996- retired with wrist injury
1997- quarters to Sampras

Only Stich could have been called a bad loss, except for the fact it was the final and Stich was Wimbledon Champion that year after beating Courier, Edberg, and Becker all in a row, losing only 1 set to that trio.

helloworld
05-24-2012, 08:37 AM
Becker at his best would blow Nadal off the court on fast grass.

Mustard
05-24-2012, 02:10 PM
Here are all of their Wimbledon matches:

Boris Becker
1984 Wimbledon - Boris Becker
R128: Boris Becker def. Blaine Willenborg (6-0, 6-0, 6-4)
R64: Boris Becker def. Nduka Odizor (6-3, 6-4, 4-2 ret.)
R32: Bill Scanlon def. Boris Becker (6-2, 2-6, 7-6, 1-2 ret.)

1985 Wimbledon - Boris Becker
R128: Boris Becker def. Hank Pfister (4-6, 6-3, 6-2, 6-4)
R64: Boris Becker def. Matt Anger (6-0, 6-1, 6-3)
R32: Boris Becker def. Joakim Nystrom (3-6, 7-6, 6-1, 4-6, 9-7)
R16: Boris Becker def. Tim Mayotte (6-3, 4-6, 6-7, 7-6, 6-2)
QF: Boris Becker def. Henri Leconte (7-6, 3-6, 6-3, 6-4)
SF: Boris Becker def. Anders Jarryd (2-6, 7-6, 6-3, 6-3)
FR: Boris Becker def. Kevin Curren (6-3, 6-7, 7-6, 6-4)

1986 Wimbledon - Boris Becker
R128: Boris Becker def. Eduardo Bengoechea (6-4, 6-2, 6-1)
R64: Boris Becker def. Tom Gullikson (6-4, 6-3, 6-2)
R32: Boris Becker def. Paul McNamee (6-4, 6-4, 4-6, 6-4)
R16: Boris Becker def. Mikael Pernfors (6-3, 7-6, 6-2)
QF: Boris Becker def. Miloslav Mecir (6-4, 6-2, 7-6)
SF: Boris Becker def. Henri Leconte (6-2, 6-4, 6-7, 6-3)
FR: Boris Becker def. Ivan Lendl (6-4, 6-3, 7-5)

1987 Wimbledon - Boris Becker
R128: Boris Becker def. Karel Novacek (6-4, 6-2, 6-4)
R64: Peter Doohan def. Boris Becker (7-6, 4-6, 6-2, 6-4)

1988 Wimbledon - Boris Becker
R128: Boris Becker def. John Frawley (6-3, 6-1, 6-2)
R64: Boris Becker def. Karel Novacek (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
R32: Boris Becker def. Sammy Giammalva Jr. (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)
R16: Boris Becker def. Paul Annacone (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
QF: Boris Becker def. Pat Cash (6-4, 6-3, 6-4)
SF: Boris Becker def. Ivan Lendl (6-4, 6-3, 6-7, 6-4)
FR: Stefan Edberg def. Boris Becker (4-6, 7-6, 6-4, 6-2)

1989 Wimbledon - Boris Becker
R128: Boris Becker def. Bryan Shelton (6-1, 6-4, 7-6)
R64: Boris Becker def. Richard Matuszewski (6-3, 7-5, 6-4)
R32: Boris Becker def. Jan Gunnarsson (7-5, 7-6, 6-3)
R16: Boris Becker def. Aaron Krickstein (6-4, 6-4, 7-5)
QF: Boris Becker def. Paul Chamberlin (6-1, 6-2, 6-0)
SF: Boris Becker def. Ivan Lendl (7-5, 6-7, 2-6, 6-4, 6-3)
FR: Boris Becker def. Stefan Edberg (6-0, 7-6, 6-4)

1990 Wimbledon - Boris Becker
R128: Boris Becker def. Luis Herrera (7-6, 7-6, 7-5)
R64: Boris Becker def. Wally Masur (6-7, 6-2, 6-3, 6-2)
R32: Boris Becker def. Dan Goldie (6-3, 6-4, 4-6, 7-5)
R16: Boris Becker def. Pat Cash (7-6, 6-1, 6-4)
QF: Boris Becker def. Brad Gilbert (6-4, 6-4, 6-1)
SF: Boris Becker def. Goran Ivanisevic (4-6, 7-6, 6-0, 7-6)
FR: Stefan Edberg def. Boris Becker (6-2, 6-2, 3-6, 3-6, 6-4)

1991 Wimbledon - Boris Becker
R128: Boris Becker def. Carl-Uwe Steeb (6-4, 6-2, 6-4)
R64: Boris Becker def. Peter Lundgren (7-6, 7-5, 7-5)
R32: Boris Becker def. Andrei Olhovskiy (6-1, 6-4, 3-6, 6-3)
R16: Boris Becker def. Christian Bergstrom (6-4, 6-7, 6-1, 7-6)
QF: Boris Becker def. Guy Forget (6-7, 7-6, 6-2, 7-6)
SF: Boris Becker def. David Wheaton (6-4, 7-6, 7-5)
FR: Michael Stich def. Boris Becker (6-4, 7-6, 6-4)

1992 Wimbledon - Boris Becker
R128: Boris Becker def. Omar Camporese (7-5, 6-3, 7-5)
R64: Boris Becker def. Martin Damm (4-6, 6-4, 6-4, 3-6, 6-3)
R32: Boris Becker def. Bryan Shelton (6-4, 3-6, 7-6, 7-6)
R16: Boris Becker def. Wayne Ferreira (3-6, 6-3, 6-4, 6-7, 6-1)
QF: Andre Agassi def. Boris Becker (4-6, 6-2, 6-2, 4-6, 6-3)

1993 Wimbledon - Boris Becker
R128: Boris Becker def. Marc-Kevin Goellner (4-6, 6-3, 6-2, 6-4)
R64: Boris Becker def. Alexander Volkov (7-6, 6-1, 6-3)
R32: Boris Becker def. Jakob Hlasek (6-3, 3-6, 6-2, 6-3)
R16: Boris Becker def. Henri Leconte (6-4, 6-4, 3-6, 6-3)
QF: Boris Becker def. Michael Stich (7-5, 6-7, 6-7, 6-2, 6-4)
SF: Pete Sampras def. Boris Becker (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)

1994 Wimbledon - Boris Becker
R128: Boris Becker def. David Wheaton (6-2, 6-4, 6-3)
R64: Boris Becker def. Arne Thoms (7-6, 6-2, 6-4)
R32: Boris Becker def. Javier Frana (7-6, 6-4, 1-6, 6-3)
R16: Boris Becker def. Andrei Medvedev (6-7, 7-5, 7-6, 6-7, 7-5)
QF: Boris Becker def. Christian Bergstrom (7-6, 6-4, 6-3)
SF: Goran Ivanisevic def. Boris Becker (6-2, 7-6, 6-4)

1995 Wimbledon - Boris Becker
R128: Boris Becker def. Emilio Benfele Alvarez (6-3, 6-3, 6-4)
R64: Boris Becker def. Jan Apell (6-3, 3-6, 6-1, 6-2)
R32: Boris Becker def. Jan Siemerink (2-6, 6-2, 6-2, 6-4)
R16: Boris Becker def. Dick Norman (7-6, 6-3, 6-4)
QF: Boris Becker def. Cedric Pioline (6-3, 6-1, 6-7, 6-7, 9-7)
SF: Boris Becker def. Andre Agassi (2-6, 7-6, 6-4, 7-6)
FR: Pete Sampras def. Boris Becker (6-7, 6-2, 6-4, 6-2)

1996 Wimbledon - Boris Becker
R128: Boris Becker def. Jean-Philippe Fleurian (6-0, 6-2, 6-3)
R64: Boris Becker def. Tomas Carbonell (4-6, 6-3, 6-4, 6-2)
R32: Neville Godwin def. Boris Becker (6-6 ret.)

1997 Wimbledon - Boris Becker
R128: Boris Becker def. Marcos Aurelio Gorriz (6-3, 6-2, 6-3)
R64: Boris Becker def. Thomas Johansson (6-1, 6-4, 6-4)
R32: Boris Becker def. Mark Petchey (6-3, 6-3, 6-2)
R16: Boris Becker def. Marcelo Rios (6-2, 6-2, 7-6)
QF: Pete Sampras def. Boris Becker (6-1, 6-7, 6-1, 6-4)

1999 Wimbledon - Boris Becker
R128: Boris Becker def. Miles MacLagan (5-7, 6-7, 6-4, 7-5, 6-2)
R64: Boris Becker def. Nicolas Kiefer (6-4, 6-2, 6-4)
R32: Boris Becker def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-1, 6-4, 7-6)
R16: Patrick Rafter def. Boris Becker (6-3, 6-2, 6-3)

Rafael Nadal
2003 Wimbledon - Rafael Nadal
R128: Rafael Nadal def. Mario Ancic (6-3, 6-4, 4-6, 6-4)
R64: Rafael Nadal def. Lee Childs (6-2, 6-4, 6-3)
R32: Paradorn Srichaphan def. Rafael Nadal (6-4, 6-4, 6-2)

2005 Wimbledon - Rafael Nadal
R128: Rafael Nadal def. Vincent Spadea (6-4, 6-3, 6-0)
R64: Gilles Muller def. Rafael Nadal (6-4, 4-6, 6-3, 6-4)

2006 Wimbledon - Rafael Nadal
R128: Rafael Nadal def. Alex Bogdanovic (6-4, 7-6, 6-4)
R64: Rafael Nadal def. Robert Kendrick (6-7, 3-6, 7-6, 7-5, 6-4)
R32: Rafael Nadal def. Andre Agassi (7-6, 6-2, 6-4)
R16: Rafael Nadal def. Irakli Labadze (6-3, 7-6, 6-3)
QF: Rafael Nadal def. Jarkko Nieminen (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
SF: Rafael Nadal def. Marcos Baghdatis (6-1, 7-5, 6-3)
FR: Roger Federer def. Rafael Nadal (6-0, 7-6, 6-7, 6-3)

2007 Wimbledon - Rafael Nadal
R128: Rafael Nadal def. Mardy Fish (6-3, 7-6, 6-3)
R64: Rafael Nadal def. Werner Eschauer (6-2, 6-4, 6-1)
R32: Rafael Nadal def. Robin Soderling (6-4, 6-4, 6-7, 4-6, 7-5)
R16: Rafael Nadal def. Mikhail Youzhny (4-6, 3-6, 6-1, 6-2, 6-2)
QF: Rafael Nadal def. Tomas Berdych (7-6, 6-4, 6-2)
SF: Rafael Nadal def. Novak Djokovic (3-6, 6-1, 4-1 ret.)
FR: Roger Federer def. Rafael Nadal (7-6, 4-6, 7-6, 2-6, 6-2)

2008 Wimbledon - Rafael Nadal
R128: Rafael Nadal def. Andreas Beck (6-4, 6-4, 7-6)
R64: Rafael Nadal def. Ernests Gulbis (5-7, 6-2, 7-6, 6-3)
R32: Rafael Nadal def. Nicolas Kiefer (7-6, 6-2, 6-3)
R16: Rafael Nadal def. Mikhail Youzhny (6-3, 6-3, 6-1)
QF: Rafael Nadal def. Andy Murray (6-3, 6-2, 6-4)
SF: Rafael Nadal def. Rainer Schuettler (6-1, 7-6, 6-4)
FR: Rafael Nadal def. Roger Federer (6-4, 6-4, 6-7, 6-7, 9-7)

2010 Wimbledon - Rafael Nadal
R128: Rafael Nadal def. Kei Nishikori (6-2, 6-4, 6-4)
R64: Rafael Nadal def. Robin Haase (5-7, 6-2, 3-6, 6-0, 6-3)
R32: Rafael Nadal def. Philipp Petzschner (6-4, 4-6, 6-7, 6-2, 6-3)
R16: Rafael Nadal def. Paul-Henri Mathieu (6-4, 6-2, 6-2)
QF: Rafael Nadal def. Robin Soderling (3-6, 6-3, 7-6, 6-1)
SF: Rafael Nadal def. Andy Murray (6-4, 7-6, 6-4)
FR: Rafael Nadal def. Tomas Berdych (6-3, 7-5, 6-4)

2011 Wimbledon - Rafael Nadal
R128: Rafael Nadal def. Michael Russell (6-4, 6-2, 6-2)
R64: Rafael Nadal def. Ryan Sweeting (6-3, 6-2, 6-4)
R32: Rafael Nadal def. Gilles Muller (7-6, 7-6, 6-0)
R16: Rafael Nadal def. Juan Martin del Potro (7-6, 3-6, 7-6, 6-4)
QF: Rafael Nadal def. Mardy Fish (6-3, 6-3, 5-7, 6-4)
SF: Rafael Nadal def. Andy Murray (5-7, 6-2, 6-2, 6-4)
FR: Novak Djokovic def. Rafael Nadal (6-4, 6-1, 1-6, 6-3)

reversef
05-24-2012, 02:54 PM
you have the answer in your own words. how many players from the spanish school (lets call it that to avoid the common "neighbour jealousy" stupidity by the lone dork et. al.) dominated in the past Generations?
...
How many players from the spanish school were as good as Nadal?

Gorecki
05-24-2012, 03:11 PM
How many players from the spanish school were as good as Nadal?

in the world of *******s you reply to questions with other questions?

lendledbergfan
05-24-2012, 03:14 PM
He said Rafa is a product of an era and he will adjust to situations accordingly. My question was if that was the case then why he couldn't adjust to Cincinnati? Irrespective of it's hard court or grass, the product of the era could have adjusted to any surface existing at that time, right?

'coz he doesn't see a need to adjust to Cincy. He probably would win Cincy too if it was a 5th Slam (it is here at TW, but lets leave that). Why should he care to adjust specifically on Cincy if he can do fine at USO?

Heck, Wimbledon is a Slam! He made adjustments from being a pure dirtballer to a two times Wimbledon champ. He flattened his backhand to win at Australia, and upped the mileage on his serve to win USO. In all these pure BS hypotheses, Rafa would have done well to adjust on any grass -- fast or slow.

lendledbergfan
05-24-2012, 03:18 PM
*******s don't wanna be honest about it but unfortunately for them it's clear to anyone with half a brain that he would have won diddly squat on the fast grass of the 90s. Claydal almost lost to Hasse and Petzner at his peak when the grass is somewhat quicker in the first week(not even close to the 90s still).

And then comparing Federer to Claydal(oh the audacity of it all) for not having won Wimby on fast grass when he did beat the king of grass playing S&V tennis,not a baseline game mind you. The only reason why Federer didn't win Wimby that year was because he was a headcase in his teen years, a well documented fact. His game was plenty good to win Wimby on fast grass maybe not 6 times but atleast 2-3 times.

And to those who say that Fed too benefitted from the slow grass should realise that if the grass was as fast as the 90s, Claydal wouldn't have got out of the first week let alone win a Wimby, while Fed wouldve won atleast 2-3 Wimbys if not 6 with some S&V tennis.

Leaving aside all the hypothetical arguments, I just *love* to see *******s being tortured in hypothetical arguments like this. I love both Nadal and Federer (less than Nadal, admittedly), but it is just amazing to *******s suffer like this. And love Nadal for making this happen in an otherwise ridiculous Federer-mauling era over a string of low-quality opponents during his early years (of course, Fed is a great champion, as he proves today by still being the top-3 and contending close to the top-2).