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Cindysphinx
05-27-2012, 10:16 AM
I was just watching Melanie Oudin, age 20. I hadn't seen her since her big run at the US Open in 2009.

I was shocked. She looks like she has picked up 20 pounds, much of it around her mid-section. She has been playing the whole time, and it has only been three years. In fact, she is performing well and the commentators were going on and on about what a hard worker she is. So it can't be a situation where she is slacking off or skipping practice.

I do not understand how a professional tennis player gets so visibly overweight. I have women on my team who are in their 50's who have had multiple children and have desk jobs but who are slimmer than Oudin. Need I mention that none of us can hire a fitness trainer or be active all day every day like a tennis pro.

I don't mean to pick on Oudin, but she is so young and clearly does not have fat genes in the family. It's not like she retired and is coming back. I have seen other pros chunk up (Nalbandian, Baghdatis, Almagro), so it is not just Oudin or women.

What's going on with that?

decades
05-27-2012, 10:22 AM
the thing about exercise is, it makes you hungry. you have to refuel. and this is where we get into trouble. lots of athletes eat energy bars (200cal) and gels and sports drinks. the favored sports drinks can be upwards of 300 calories for 16oz.

you can easily ruin an entire days worth of exercise by eating a lot of the wrong kinds of foods. Tennis players are people. And a lot of people struggle with poor to awful eating habits they have had a long long time. Sweets is the primary culprit. Lots of mothers love to give sweets to their kids. Finally, troubled homes often produce dysfunctional eaters. those that eat to comfort themselves. that might be something to examine as well.

She has had a lot of stress in her life. Having what might be called now a fluke run at the US Open at a young age put enormous pressure on her. she signed a lot of endorsement deals and she may feel she isn't living up to the standard she wants to deliver to those who had faith in her.

sureshs
05-27-2012, 10:24 AM
Women can have hormonal and emotional issues which can cause weight gain. It is a complicated matter, and not as simple as blaming them to be weak-minded or lazy, which is what most men do.

Here are 7 reasons:

http://www.3fatchicks.com/7-reasons-for-weight-gain-in-women/

BeHappy
05-27-2012, 11:41 AM
Because women only play best of 3 sets, and because women typically have terrible movement anyway so they aren't affected by the loss in stamina or movement.

DRII
05-27-2012, 11:50 AM
How do you know theres not fat genes in the family?

Genetics are a extremely significant factor, when it comes to weight gain (or more specifically what kind of weight gain)!

jakemcclain32
05-27-2012, 11:57 AM
Diet, diet, diet!!!

That same lean physique Fed keeps is a result of an insane work ethic combined with a strict diet.

BeHappy
05-27-2012, 11:58 AM
How do you know theres not fat genes in the family?

Genetics are a extremely significant factor, when it comes to weight gain (or more specifically what kind of weight gain)!

Nope. Unless Nalbandian's fat genetics only kicked in at Christmas time every year.

DRII
05-27-2012, 12:03 PM
Nope. Unless Nalbandian's fat genetics only kicked in at Christmas time every year.

Who is referring just to Nalbadian :confused:

If you don't know about genetics and gaining weight, then you should ask someone who has to deal with it.

Also, sometimes weight gain is good, particularly if you want to add lean muscle. Its much easier for some to do this than others and genetics is a major reason.

DRII
05-27-2012, 12:05 PM
Diet, diet, diet!!!

That same lean physique Fed keeps is a result of an insane work ethic combined with a strict diet.


Federer is not the leanest player on tour, not even close...

tennis_pro
05-27-2012, 12:06 PM
How do you know theres not fat genes in the family?

Genetics are a extremely significant factor, when it comes to weight gain (or more specifically what kind of weight gain)!

what a dumb excuse, you could have the best genetics in your family when it comes to weight but if you eat a lot you'll get fat

jakemcclain32
05-27-2012, 12:12 PM
Federer is not the leanest player on tour, not even close...

One of the oldest with it though.

DRII
05-27-2012, 12:15 PM
what a dumb excuse, you could have the best genetics in your family when it comes to weight but if you eat a lot you'll get fat

How naive of you!

weight gain is not as simple as 1+1=2 or 2-1=1.

2 individuals could consume the same amount of calories, and do roughly the same amount of activity yet yeild very different results (in terms of weight gain or loss; let alone composition) over the same period of time...

You're foolish if you believe otherwise.

BeHappy
05-27-2012, 12:18 PM
Who is referring just to Nalbadian :confused:

If you don't know about genetics and gaining weight, then you should ask someone who has to deal with it.

Also, sometimes weight gain is good, particularly if you want to add lean muscle. Its much easier for some to do this than others and genetics is a major reason.

Excuses .

Say Chi Sin Lo
05-27-2012, 12:28 PM
Ever since the release of the Avenger, she's just hulking-out.

tennis_pro
05-27-2012, 01:20 PM
How naive of you!

weight gain is not as simple as 1+1=2 or 2-1=1.

2 individuals could consume the same amount of calories, and do roughly the same amount of activity yet yeild very different results (in terms of weight gain or loss; let alone composition) over the same period of time...

You're foolish if you believe otherwise.

Excuse galore.

If someone really wants to stay/be fit, he will, it's only a matter of excersises and a healthy diet, of course some will find it harder to achieve and only this is where genetics come in. 90 % of people who are fat sit on their as**s all day, eat tons of chocolate every day and cry how genetics ruins their life.

The Bawss
05-27-2012, 01:21 PM
Excuse galore.

If someone really wants to stay/be fit, he will, it's only a matter of excersises and a healthy diet, of course some will find it harder to achieve and only this is where genetics come in. 90 % of people who are fat sit on their as**s all day, eat tons of chocolate every day and cry how genetics ruins their life.

Harsh but true.

gavna
05-27-2012, 01:26 PM
I was just watching Melanie Oudin, age 20. I hadn't seen her since her big run at the US Open in 2009.

I was shocked. She looks like she has picked up 20 pounds, much of it around her mid-section. She has been playing the whole time, and it has only been three years. In fact, she is performing well and the commentators were going on and on about what a hard worker she is. So it can't be a situation where she is slacking off or skipping practice.

I do not understand how a professional tennis player gets so visibly overweight. I have women on my team who are in their 50's who have had multiple children and have desk jobs but who are slimmer than Oudin. Need I mention that none of us can hire a fitness trainer or be active all day every day like a tennis pro.

I don't mean to pick on Oudin, but she is so young and clearly does not have fat genes in the family. It's not like she retired and is coming back. I have seen other pros chunk up (Nalbandian, Baghdatis, Almagro), so it is not just Oudin or women.

What's going on with that?

wow i have no idea what your talking about - yes she is not a thin twiggy type like Venus but jeez she looks good. Her workouts are tough and she has been in the gym to get her core stronger. Her natural body type seems pretty "thick" just like Capriati or even Clijsters.

DRII
05-27-2012, 01:28 PM
Excuse galore.

If someone really wants to stay/be fit, he will, it's only a matter of excersises and a healthy diet, of course some will find it harder to achieve and only this is where genetics come in. 90 % of people who are fat sit on their as**s all day, eat tons of chocolate every day and cry how genetics ruins their life.

Duh!!!

Thats what I said!

BeHappy
05-27-2012, 01:29 PM
I suspect if there best of 5 set matches in the Grand Slams Clijsters would make losing weight a priority.

Posture Guy
05-27-2012, 01:33 PM
yeah, I just watched her 1st round match. Wow, her body fat percentage is horrible. She's horribly out of shape, and I would agree, probably 15-20 pounds overweight.

How does it happen? Same way it happens to most people. Too many calories in (and typically the type of calories that predispose someone to weight gain by jerking around their insulin levels like a yo yo) and not enough calories out.

The announces today alluded to it, saying she let herself go, didn't work on her conditioning, and was now in much better shape than she was 6 months ago. Good thing I didn't see her then.

one issue athletes can have is they develop a certain eating style that works with their high levels of training. Then if they cut back on the training because of distractions, endorsements, off court obligations, stress, injury, whatever, but keep eating the same type and amounts of food, the results are predictable.

I hope she gets it together. She has a reasonably solid game, but at her size she needs to use speed and conditioning as a weapon, and right now it's a weakness.

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 01:33 PM
The same reason everyone does.

You think the pros are superhumans who don't like to overeat just like the rest of us?

SStrikerR
05-27-2012, 01:35 PM
Because theyre people, and they feel that their weight is acceptable? Who cares? You're basically that insecure girl who hides her flaws by pointing out someone else's.

ben123
05-27-2012, 01:49 PM
what a dumb excuse, you could have the best genetics in your family when it comes to weight but if you eat a lot you'll get fat

nah it differs really a lot with the genetics. i can eat whatever i want and it doesnt matter for me its actually hard to gain some pounds

Because theyre people, and they feel that their weight is acceptable? Who cares?

the question was how can she get fat not if she cares. for a pro athlete who does sport for hours every day its simply hard to imagine how many female tennis players can turn a bit fatty. and exactly this was the question

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 01:52 PM
nah it differs really a lot with the genetics. i can eat whatever i want and it doesnt matter for me its actually hard to gain some pounds

This is untrue. Studies have shown that there is very little genetic component to actual BMR. Virtually all of the weight difference between two people of similar age can be attributed to differences in exercise and calorie intake.

There is a large genetic component to what you eat though, actually. What seems like "whatever I want" to you might be very different than someone else.

tangerine
05-27-2012, 01:54 PM
This is the UK beach volleyball team. Who's fat and who's skinny?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/24/article-2149238-13435588000005DC-822_964x711.jpg

Bjorn99
05-27-2012, 01:56 PM
Stress and bisphenol A in plastic is why we are all fat. Even the skinniest of people, save maybe Gilles Simon, are fat. Take the skinniest person you know, have them lift up their shirt et voila, a little bubble.

Unless you take a certain expensive regimen that waives the effects of plastic, YOU, no matter how great your metabolism is, will get the BUBBLE.

Here is Roger Federer, whose body, once he stops playing tennis will become very, very, very fat.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn02.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/headlines/2010/07/roger-federer-mediterranean.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.justjared.com/2010/07/10/roger-federer-mediterranean/&h=300&w=300&sz=24&tbnid=_ZqH8cIWrl0XIM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=91&zoom=1&usg=__al1lolEDoOJwjn8g6EDiWvG00HA=&docid=YUwMspGOqMpVuM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CJTCT5P0KYv0ggea2YDkCw&ved=0CGIQ9QEwBA&dur=1079

Magnetite
05-27-2012, 01:56 PM
It's women, they aren't built for extreme athleticism. That's why men are always better than women at sports.

Just take a look at Serena Williams, at her size she wouldn't be close to the top ten in men's tennis, even with her amazing talent.

tennis_pro
05-27-2012, 02:06 PM
Duh!!!

Thats what I said!

I said it's harder for some to be slim not that you neccessarily have to be fat with bad genetics.

veroniquem
05-27-2012, 02:13 PM
This is untrue. Studies have shown that there is very little genetic component to actual BMR. Virtually all of the weight difference between two people of similar age can be attributed to differences in exercise and calorie intake.




Actually, recent studies show that weight gain is part genetic, part environment/eating habits. There is definitely a genetic component in how easily one gains weight.

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 02:19 PM
Actually, recent studies show that weight gain is part genetic, part environment/eating habits. There is definitely a genetic component in how easily one gains weight.

Not once you correct for activity levels and calorie intake, unless there has been something really groundbreaking recently. Could you link me to these studies?

I remember reading recently that there's a large genetic component to how much activity one normally gets. A lot of skinny people tend to subconsciously make up for overeating by simply moving a lot more during the day. Fat people don't so much.

But once you correct for that, the differences disappear. Ultimately, with very few exceptions it really does boil down to moving more and eating less.

ben123
05-27-2012, 02:24 PM
genetics are a very important factor. you see it everywhere. bodies can behave very different we do not all have the same body... if it would be that simple ...

TheCheese
05-27-2012, 02:36 PM
Exactly - excellent picture, Oudin is built JUST like #2 (without the ball) HARDLY fat and out of shape!!!!! My daughter is built the exact same way - 5' 3" and almost 140lbs.......idiots on this forum would say fat but just thick and built like the proverbial " Brick S**thouse".

5'3" and 140 is not what I'd consider ideal weight, even for the average person. And we're talking about a professional tennis player here, where being lean is ideal.

That's on the borderline of being overweight on the BMI scale.

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 02:39 PM
5'3 and 140 is pretty big. She's probably at least 30% BF and should lose some weight. If she's 5'3, 140 lbs, and lean (under 20%) she has more muscle than most female bodybuilders.

This woman is 5'4, 143 lbs:

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/11-brigita-brez-e1312904942929.jpg

decades
05-27-2012, 02:39 PM
wow i have no idea what your talking about - yes she is not a thin twiggy type like Venus but jeez she looks good. Her workouts are tough and she has been in the gym to get her core stronger. Her natural body type seems pretty "thick" just like Capriati or even Clijsters.

you like em thick ehh? ;)

veroniquem
05-27-2012, 02:47 PM
Not once you correct for activity levels and calorie intake, unless there has been something really groundbreaking recently. Could you link me to these studies?

I remember reading recently that there's a large genetic component to how much activity one normally gets. A lot of skinny people tend to subconsciously make up for overeating by simply moving a lot more during the day. Fat people don't so much.

But once you correct for that, the differences disappear. Ultimately, with very few exceptions it really does boil down to moving more and eating less.


Some doctors were talking about it in the "weight of the nation" HBO series and I've also read some articles about the subject in "science news". Sorry, I don't have a link. But it makes complete sense to me. At 20, I could eat tons and never put on a gram. I had friends who put on 2 pounds with half a pastry. The difference was obvious. My metabolism burned calories faster. And no, there was no difference in our level of activity.
Most of what I read confirmed my suspicions. Some hormonal anomalies cause intense gain weight. Down syndrome kids are almost always overweight. You cannot eliminate the genetic factor.
Naturally, if you starve yourself, you will probably not stay fat no matter what. But people can eat the exact same meal and store more or less fat. Metabolisms are more or less efficient.

Tennis_Hands
05-27-2012, 02:53 PM
nah it differs really a lot with the genetics. i can eat whatever i want and it doesnt matter for me its actually hard to gain some pounds

That is incorrect. You cannot lie to your body. If you do not gain weight when you "eat whatever you want" you:

1) eat things, that are sufficient for your activities

2) adjust your activities to the increased calorie intake (unconsciously)

3) increase your calorie intake, when you have more activities (consciously or unconsciously)

Either way, in your case, your calories intake is sufficient or slightly under the amount, that the body needs to maintain its normal function.

Mind you, we are talking about healthy people here. Also, the brain requires a lot of energy.

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 03:02 PM
Naturally, if you starve yourself, you will probably not stay fat no matter what. But people can eat the exact same meal and store more or less fat. Metabolisms are more or less efficient.

Saying it doesn't make it true. Virtually all of the "metabolism" differences between people can actually be attributed to their activity levels (once corrected for age, gender, etc).

veroniquem
05-27-2012, 03:06 PM
I guess the doctors are wrong then, never mind.

Evan77
05-27-2012, 03:12 PM
genes my friends ... you could probably feed Djokovic bacon and fries all day long (the worst combination of protein/fat and carbs) and he will still stay slim/lanky. I have a friend who eats junk food all the time ... he can eat an extra large pizza, 20 wings, a lbs of bacon in the morning, pasta, whatever, and he is so skinny, has a crazy metabolism, he doesn't work out ... lucky biotch

BeHappy
05-27-2012, 03:17 PM
I guess this being an American board is influencing the discussion. We have all these American posters insisting their genetics are to blame!

Leelord337
05-27-2012, 03:24 PM
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/145341637-melanie-oudin-hits-a-return-to-swedens-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QeSjRwd0tjqtizPTetaG8F68tT5Z nbhRbEtlmUQIEmz7ITQDxq7OhJiNhrRC53nIgA%3d%3d

Tennis_Hands
05-27-2012, 03:27 PM
I guess the doctors are wrong then, never mind.

There are all sorts of doctors. Believe me, I know. :twisted:

Usually normal people that are overweight are looking for all sorts of excuses to not up their activity levels and get rid of the extra weight.

The real reasons for their overweight problems (apart from the calorie intake, that is) are, that they are lazy and think, that they have nothing to lose by staying overweight. They are wrong about the latter, and they understand it sooner (socially) or later in their lives, if they are unlucky enough (health).

With the professional players it is a lot more complicated. At the highest levels the players follow strict diets, to achieve particular goals. For example, most of the top dogs start the Majors a little over their ideal weight, and they are becoming lighter as the tournament enters its final rounds. That is a lot of stress on the body, that learns to react by storing more "fuel", when presented with an opportunity.

And there are the "nutritionists". What they are doing is another story.

courtking
05-27-2012, 03:31 PM
nothing to do with genes... look her big fat belly.. it's not core either.. she's currently replay on TC right now.. when she serves u can clearly her big fat belly jump out.. .. just bad diet and not doing alot of ab works and etc.. I once over weight almost 200lb.. I lost 40lb within few months and most of those weight are from the belly and thighs..

norbac
05-27-2012, 03:31 PM
Watching Oudin on TC now. Wow, did she gain weight!

Leelord337
05-27-2012, 03:36 PM
Watching Oudin on TC now. Wow, did she gain weight!

she was larger than that a few months ago.

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 03:37 PM
I guess the doctors are wrong then, never mind.

Doctors often don't know a great deal about this stuff. Go look at a med school curriculum sometime and see how much there is about nutrition, exercise, and body composition ;)

norbac
05-27-2012, 03:39 PM
she was larger than that a few months ago.

Really? I hadn't seen her for a while.

Evan77
05-27-2012, 03:39 PM
I guess this being an American board is influencing the discussion. We have all these American posters insisting their genetics are to blame!
no, Americans do eat too much (Canadians too, I must admit). I went to Texas last year and I was shocked about these huge portions they were serving at restaurants ...

I just mentioned the story of my friend who eats like crazy and he is still so skinny ... (he is one in 10000s)... I'm pretty fit, but I had to watch what I eat, very little sugar, low carbs, plenty of salads and lean meat, fish etc. I love swimming ...

veroniquem
05-27-2012, 03:44 PM
no, Americans do eat too much. I went to Texas last year and I was shocked how big portions were at some restaurants ...

I just mentioned the story of my friend who eats like crazy and he is still so skinny ... (he is one in 10000s)... I'm pretty fit, but I had to watch what I eat, very little sugar, low carbs, plenty of salads and lean meat, fish etc. I love swimming ...



I know. In my 20s I was exactly like your friend, so I can say there is a genetic component from experience. I could eat 4, 5 pastries, banana splits and I weighed less than a hundred pounds. My friends were disgusted.
Now that I'm older however, I'm just like everyone else :|

Tennis_Hands
05-27-2012, 03:45 PM
no, Americans do eat too much. I went to Texas last year and I was shocked how big portions were at some restaurants ...

I just mentioned the story of my friend who eats like crazy and he is still so skinny ... (he is one in 10000s)... I'm pretty fit, but I had to watch what I eat, very little sugar, low carbs, plenty of salads and lean meat, fish etc. I love swimming ...

It is not only about how much the people eat, but also what they eat.

Swimming is great complex exercise. It makes the body accumulate more body fat than with other equally intensive exercises/sports, though.

Fifth Set
05-27-2012, 04:03 PM
Did Oudin gain all that weight before or after this losing streak?!

If before, no wonder she hasn't been winning.

If after, it could be a downward spiral - she better improve her diet or she will be done with tennis before she knows it.

Evan77
05-27-2012, 04:03 PM
It is not only about how much the people eat, but also what they eat.

Swimming is great complex exercise. It makes the body accumulate more body fat than with other equally intensive exercises/sports, though.

agree with you 100%. it's just that there are so many theories about food. I have a really good gf, who is a vegetarian, but I couldn't live without meat. I guess female and male bodies are different. I read so many books ... and nobody agrees about anything ... for me personally, plenty of vegetables and a piece of some sort of meat (usually, fish or chicken breast) works the best ... love a good of piece of steak too ... but, what I've noticed, is as soon as I eat stuff like potato, rice, and white bread, I just fell more and more hungry ... I guess we should all listen to our own bodies

norcal
05-27-2012, 04:16 PM
I was going to make a thread on this. She has a beer gut, like me. Difference is I sit behind a computer all day and I'm 46 years old and play tennis part time and LOVE beer.

She is supposedly a 'professional' athlete. We goof on Serena all the time for being fat - she is, but it's proportional - and you look at her parents and she has the fat genes (venus must be the mailman's kid, lol). Melanie has a gut. Indefensible imo.

So she didn't have the fat gene a couple years ago when she was America's darling but now she does? Right.

Oh and how about that land whale who couldn't move toward a shot 5 feet away against *gasp* the super fit Sam Stosur? You think they have the same diet and dedication?

Oudin will never look like Sam...but Sam will never have a beer gut.

/heading out to have a beer with Melanie

OddJack
05-27-2012, 04:20 PM
OMG, I just saw Odin's belly on tv. It really looks bad.

Tennis_Hands
05-27-2012, 04:29 PM
agree with you 100%. it's just that there are so many theories about food. I have a really good gf, who is a vegetarian, but I couldn't live without meat. I guess female and male bodies are different. I read so many books ... and nobody agrees about anything ... for me personally, plenty of vegetables and a piece of some sort of meat (usually, fish or chicken breast) works the best ... love a good of piece of steak too ... but, what I've noticed, is as soon as I eat stuff like potato, rice, and white bread, I just fell more and more hungry ... I guess we should all listen to our own bodies

Eating foods with high glycemic index will cause sudden release of serious amounts of insulin, which, in turn, will remove too much glucose from the blood, causing very low levels of blood sugar. In turn, that will make you want eat more (to balance the things out). It is a vicious circle. The higher the intake of calories via foods with high glycemic index, the more you will want to eat. Must be avoided.

norcal
05-27-2012, 04:50 PM
"It is a vicious circle."

No it's not. Have her observe Sam Stosur's diet and training regimen. Problem solved. It's called being a professional.

Shocking Melanie got her gut after getting a bunch of endorsements. zomg coincidence!

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 05:05 PM
"It is a vicious circle."

No it's not. Have her observe Sam Stosur's diet and training regimen. Problem solved. It's called being a professional.

Shocking Melanie got her gut after getting a bunch of endorsements. zomg coincidence!

He said eating high-GI foods is a vicious circle because they just make you want to eat more soon after. Doesn't have anything to do with Oudin directly.

Squall Leonheart
05-27-2012, 05:07 PM
"It is a vicious circle."

No it's not. Have her observe Sam Stosur's diet and training regimen. Problem solved. It's called being a professional.

Shocking Melanie got her gut after getting a bunch of endorsements. zomg coincidence!

Did you even read the post from which you got your quote? He wasn't even talking about Oudin: he was talking about the poster that he quoted.

Anyway, people who are larger actually tend to have faster metabolisms. An appropriate analogy would be for cars and gasoline: the larger cars need to burn more gas to operate. Despite this, I don't know how the ratios between weight and metabolic rate compare, so I don't know how it scales so to speak.

Posture Guy
05-27-2012, 05:14 PM
I have never once met someone who was more than 20 pounds overweight who did not...

A) eat significantly more calories than they expended through movement, and

B) eat foods that played havoc with their blood sugar levels

Not once.

I have no doubt there is a genetic component, but at best it comes in a distant fourth place to these variables:

1. Total calories consumed per day
2. Type of calories consumed per day
3. Amount of calories expended per day

Want to have a bagel and a frappacino for breakfast every morning and then cry to me about your "bad genes"? Go tell someone else who is buying the tripe you're selling.

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 05:15 PM
People are really really bad at estimating how many calories they consume. Like...... incredibly bad. People who say "I eat all the time and never gain weight!" in reality eat a lot less than they think they do.

OddJack
05-27-2012, 05:19 PM
Why struggle?

I think the answer is : They want to have a life outside tennis and end up fulfilling neither.

Posture Guy
05-27-2012, 05:19 PM
and they move more than they think they do.

I used to be one of those who "couldn't gain weight". I had people tell me they were envious of my 'good genes'.

But when I look back on it, I was moving FAR more at 30 than I do now at 51. Workouts every morning on a Nordic Track or with weights. Tennis in the evenings. Hiking on the weekends.

I'm still in a decent range, but ideally I'd like to drop about 10 pounds of fat and add 5 pounds of muscle. I'm 6'0" 175-180, 34" waist, but I'd like to get that down to 32-33". The reason I have about 5 pounds to lose has nothing to do with a "slowing metabolism" or "bad genes". I need to add 1 workout a week and stop buying those damn spelt chocolate brownies at Whole Foods. They're evil, I tell ya!

WhiskeyEE
05-27-2012, 05:28 PM
I'm not reading 4 pages worth of posts, but every single fat person overeats. That's all it is. Nutrition and fitness is extremely simple, despite magazines and infomercials convincing many people otherwise.

If they genetically have a lower than normal metabolism, then they need to eat less than normal to accommodate that. However, I guess even pro athletes can have difficulty with self control.

I've been eating anywhere from 1800-2200 calories a day for the last 7 weeks. I maintain my weight at around 3000 calories. I've been in a huge deficit and it has sucked. But that's as simple as losing weight is for anyone. Find your maintenance level and then reduce your caloric intake below that.

I'm not advocating a 1000 calorie deficit for other people btw. But it works for me.

Timbo's hopeless slice
05-27-2012, 05:34 PM
Hmm, I dunno. My wife and I eat pretty much exactly the same things (we take lunches, you see) but I exercise more than she does. Not that she doesn't exercise, but she walks heaps and plays tennis maybe twice a week casually (she used to be an open tournament player) whereas I coach 6 days a week and play matches at least twice a week unless there is a tournament in which case I will (hopefully!) play more matches.

Our diet is very healthy, fresh fuit and veg, lean meat etc etc.

And here is the thing, she looks incredibly fit, still fits into the clothes she had in high school and is the envy of all. I , on the other hand, am maybe 10 lbs (is that about 5kg?) overweight, all of it carried on my waist, and always look as though I should lose some weight if I want to win matches at open level.

Except, I am w-a-a-ay fitter than her. I can outrun her, and out last her on a tennis court. Like Posture Guy, I am in a decent range (just!), but I would like to lose some weight.
Oh, we are both 45. I have only gained weight in the last five years, and I haven't changed anything!

I suspect this is the genetica argument in action. (I can only imagine what I would look like if I stopped exercising and went on a 'supersize me' diet!)

Hood_Man
05-27-2012, 05:35 PM
What I've noticed is that the naturally slimmer people I know hardly ever stop moving. Whether it's moving their hands while talking, drumming their fingers, packing back and forth, or just generally fidgeting whenever they sit down. Those constant little movements can build up to a lot.

They also eat slower. Whether it's chewing the food longer before swallowing or taking one mouthful and then continuing a conversation, or going back to some other activity (reading, watching TV, using laptop etc), all that extra time taken to eat ends up with them eating considerably less but still feeling full. I've heard that "fullness" is more to do with triggering a hormone than the actual stretching of your stomach, and in my own experience I'm inclined to believe that.

If you tend to eat a lot really quickly, try eating really slowly as an experiment and see what happens. You'll probably find you don't need to eat nearly as much as you think you do.

It could explain why the naturally slim people I know think they eat loads, because while they actually don't they probably still feel really full after meals.

6-2/6-4/6-0
05-27-2012, 05:45 PM
I say back off Oudin, the girl had a couple of hard years and is coming back to start playing well again. Give her a year to play at a high level again, and I would imagine that she'll lean down and have a solid career.

Some athletes are really particular about their weight, some are less so. Some have genetic inclinations to carry a certain amount of weight and to have it distributed certain ways. I think that anyone aside from the athlete and their coach/trainer is talking out their hindparts if they suggest they know why the athlete is a certain weight.

gavna
05-27-2012, 05:51 PM
5'3" and 140 is not what I'd consider ideal weight, even for the average person. And we're talking about a professional tennis player here, where being lean is ideal.

That's on the borderline of being overweight on the BMI scale.

i should have added she is a D1 collage player in both Lacrosse and Tennis.......not fat at all but SOLID and Thick.

OddJack
05-27-2012, 05:54 PM
I'm not reading 4 pages worth of posts, but every single fat person overeats.

Not reading 4 pages worth of posts, maybe read one page worth reading?

Not every fat person over eats. Two brothers may eat the same amount of food but one may burn less because of his hormone levels or different enzyme activity , disease or different genes.

It's not as simple as "over eating" and as most people want to make it.

Just like many people think being gay is a choice.

tennis_balla
05-27-2012, 05:57 PM
1 simple answer....

Genetics

WhiskeyEE
05-27-2012, 05:58 PM
Not reading 4 pages worth of posts, maybe read one page worth reading?

Not every fat person over eats. Two brothers may eat the same amount of food but one may burn less because of his hormone levels or different enzyme activity , disease or different genes.

It's not as simple as "over eating" and as most people want to make it.

Just like many people think being gay is a choice.

You're exactly right that one brother's metabolism may be lower than another's, despite equivalent activity levels. However, if you could read, you would've noticed the sentence in my above post that said:

If they genetically have a lower than normal metabolism, then they need to eat less than normal to accommodate that.

Overeating is eating above your caloric maintenance. If one brother has a genetically lower metabolism, then obviously he needs to eat less than the other in order to avoid overeating.

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 06:01 PM
Not reading 4 pages worth of posts, maybe read one page worth reading?

Not every fat person over eats.

Yeah, they do. Every single one. No one can become fat unless they eat too much, barring some rare and serious disorder or disease.

Posture Guy
05-27-2012, 06:09 PM
Not every fat person over eats.

I've yet to meet a fat person who does not overeat, and also eat foods that predispose them to weight gain and fat retention.

I've met plenty who blamed their genes or their thyroid or something, but when we got them to maintain a food journal for a week, it was obvious why there were obese and it had nothing to do with genetics.

every time.

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 06:14 PM
I've yet to meet a fat person who does not overeat, and also eat foods that predispose them to weight gain and fat retention.

I've met plenty who blamed their genes or their thyroid or something, but when we got them to maintain a food journal for a week, it was obvious why there were obese and it had nothing to do with genetics.

every time.

Same here.

I've helped a lot of fat people lose weight. It boils down to eating less (this involves actually keeping track of calorie intake) and moving more. Every time. 100%.

ben123
05-27-2012, 06:22 PM
some people cant accept the reality ...

yes if you dont eat and train much everyone loses weight. n just btw dramatically eating nothing is very bad for your body.

BUT its a fact that its way easier for the one guy and it may be much more difficult for the other and yes that are genetics.

its the same with being good at sports, some people just suck at sports not because they are lazy but because they suck at it naturally. ofc they can manage to improve but they will never reach the level of a talented athlete.

i know a "fat guy" since kindergarten. he was always the fat guy. his parents and his sister are fat too. he has/d many friends and did normal sport activity in his childhood. he played hockey and soccer. but he still was always fat. he didnt fail at ball sports but he was fat. in his teenage years he began to workout more seriously bc of obvious reasons. it helped but hes still not really a sixpack guy. and it was way harder to come anywhere near normal weight for him than for most other people. that are the genes and not because he was lazy/overeating. besides if they just overeat? then try to overeat. you cannot do it if you are not hungry. you will come to a point where you have to puke its not this easy to simply say overeat and being lazy. simple minded folks im leaving this thread now.

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 06:26 PM
He overeats because of his genes and tastes.

Posture Guy
05-27-2012, 06:30 PM
I will COMPLETELY agree that genetics can impact metabolism to the point where some people are endomorphs, some ectomorphs, etc...., and some are able to shed fat more easily while for some it's more difficult. No question in my mind that this is true. I am NOT saying that genetics don't impact this equation. But I am saying that (like I wrote above) genetics come in 4th to the other 3 variables I listed in terms of what are the most critical factors for EVERYONE in maintaining a healthy weight.

Someone with a genetic predisposition to fat retention may have to exercise marginally harder or eat marginally fewer calories to achieve an equivalent result as someone else, and they may not possess the body type to get a lean 6-pack. My body type? I don't care how much I work out, unless I took steroids I could never be the "big" muscular guy. But I have the body type that can get that lean, well defined "cut" look. Others can easily get "big" but can't get my lean look. But it doesn't mean they have to be 18% body fat, either.

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 06:33 PM
I don't care how much I work out, unless I took steroids I could never be the "big" muscular guy. But I have the body type that can get that lean, well defined "cut" look. Others can easily get "big" but can't get my lean look. But it doesn't mean they have to be 18% body fat, either.

All of that is 100% false. One hundred percent, period. There is nothing besides yourself preventing you from having a lean bodybuilder physique if you wanted it.

WhiskeyEE
05-27-2012, 06:42 PM
All of that is 100% false. One hundred percent, period. There is nothing besides yourself preventing you from having a lean bodybuilder physique if you wanted it.

He's actually right. Many guys can't naturally obtain a physique out of a muscle & fitness magazine. Most guys like Greg Plitt and whatnot are on steroids anyway.

While losing fat is relatively easy for anyone, gaining muscle is extremely hard for some.

That's a really complicated issue and isn't as simple as working out and eating slightly above maintenance. Many people have lower than average test levels, higher than average myostatin levels, or whatever.

In my mid 20s I can now finally gain large amounts of muscle. It wasn't always like this. When I was 18 I had an extremely hard time gaining muscle, despite counting calories every single day and working out the same way I do now. I attribute that to my test levels spiking, as they're known to do in one's mid 20s (I'm now 24).

Cindysphinx
05-27-2012, 06:46 PM
genes my friends ... you could probably feed Djokovic bacon and fries all day long (the worst combination of protein/fat and carbs) and he will still stay slim/lanky. I have a friend who eats junk food all the time ... he can eat an extra large pizza, 20 wings, a lbs of bacon in the morning, pasta, whatever, and he is so skinny, has a crazy metabolism, he doesn't work out ... lucky biotch

I have seen Oudin's mother, father and sister on TV. Every one of them is a normal weight. Nope, this isn't genes. Serena, in contrast, has obesity in her family and so could point to genes as a complicating factor.

And if you don't think 5'4" tall and 140 is horribly overweight for a tennis player . . . . I don't know what to tell you. Geez, I'm that height, and when I get to 140 I go into a full-on panic.

I just think it was really weird that the commentators were making such a big deal about what a hard worker she is. It didn't make sense when you looked at the woman they were talking about.

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 06:50 PM
Greg Plitt has a ton of muscle. I would guess he juiced.

But the reality is that anyone can obtain a lean, muscular look. Any male of reasonable age and health can look like Brad Pitt from Fight Club or Ryan Gosling in terms of muscle and body fat. It can take a long time for some people, but it can be done.

r2473
05-27-2012, 06:51 PM
This thread helps me understand how the weight loss and fitness industry makes so damn much money.

And also why the "women's magazines" sell so well.

And the muscle mags

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8CjsYV_Uuw


In a while it just fell apart
It wasn't hard to do
Everybody loves the sound of a train in the distance
Everybody thinks its true

What is the point of this story
What information pertains
The thought that life could be better
Is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains

WhiskeyEE
05-27-2012, 06:52 PM
Greg Plitt has a ton of muscle. I would guess he juiced.

But the reality is that anyone can obtain a lean, muscular look. Any male of reasonable age and health can look like Brad Pitt from Fight Club or Ryan Gosling in terms of muscle and body fat. It can take a long time for some people, but it can be done.

Yeah, I agree with you on that. But when you said bodybuilder physique I thought you meant full out fitness model (not necessarily competitive bodybuilder).

r2473
05-27-2012, 07:05 PM
He's actually right. Many guys can't naturally obtain a physique out of a muscle & fitness magazine. Most guys like Greg Plitt and whatnot are on steroids anyway.

While losing fat is relatively easy for anyone, gaining muscle is extremely hard for some.

That's a really complicated issue and isn't as simple as working out and eating slightly above maintenance. Many people have lower than average test levels, higher than average myostatin levels, or whatever.

In my mid 20s I can now finally gain large amounts of muscle. It wasn't always like this. When I was 18 I had an extremely hard time gaining muscle, despite counting calories every single day and working out the same way I do now. I attribute that to my test levels spiking, as they're known to do in one's mid 20s (I'm now 24).

The amount of lean body mass a human body can develop and maintain is limited by it's own, naturally occuring, hormone levels. A fundamental reason as to why males carry more lean body mass than females, and have the potential to develop greater amounts of muscle in less time, is precisely because their natural testosterone levels are many times higher than females.

Testosterone is required for muscle growth and maintenance, and there is a limit as to the amount of testosterone the male body can produce in good health. Resistance training results in micro-trauma to protein structures within the muscle cells and circulating testosterone is instrumental in the repair and replacement of these structures. Once the body has attained the maximum amount of muscle mass that the available testosterone can maintain - i.e. "repair" after training and replace with an equal amount of "new" proteins - then no additional proteins, and therefore no additional muscle mass, can be added and maintained. It is a fundamental and irrefutable fact, though one which the bodybuilding and supplement industries, and their deluded followers, routinely ignore (a completely unsupportable position, but "defended" quite vehemently nonetheless).

The normal adult male serum testosterone level for a man under 40 years of age is between 3 and 10 ng/ml, and decreases with increasing age [8-10]. This clearly imposes a personal limit on the amount of lean body mass that can be developed and maintained without the use of exogenous anabolic drugs (i.e. "steroids"), and any further development beyond this point will require drug-use. Other major factors influencing ultimate muscular potential are muscle belly lengths, fast-twitch to slow-twitch fiber ratio, etc.

WhiskeyEE
05-27-2012, 07:11 PM
The amount of lean body mass a human body can develop and maintain is limited by it's own, naturally occuring, hormone levels. A fundamental reason as to why males carry more lean body mass than females, and have the potential to develop greater amounts of muscle in less time, is precisely because their natural testosterone levels are many times higher than females.

Testosterone is required for muscle growth and maintenance, and there is a limit as to the amount of testosterone the male body can produce in good health. Resistance training results in micro-trauma to protein structures within the muscle cells and circulating testosterone is instrumental in the repair and replacement of these structures. Once the body has attained the maximum amount of muscle mass that the available testosterone can maintain - i.e. "repair" after training and replace with an equal amount of "new" proteins - then no additional proteins, and therefore no additional muscle mass, can be added and maintained. It is a fundamental and irrefutable fact, though one which the bodybuilding and supplement industries, and their deluded followers, routinely ignore (a completely unsupportable position, but "defended" quite vehemently nonetheless).

The normal adult male serum testosterone level for a man under 40 years of age is between 3 and 10 ng/ml, and decreases with increasing age [8-10]. This clearly imposes a personal limit on the amount of lean body mass that can be developed and maintained without the use of exogenous anabolic drugs (i.e. "steroids"), and any further development beyond this point will require drug-use. Other major factors influencing ultimate muscular potential are muscle belly lengths, fast-twitch to slow-twitch fiber ratio, etc.

I've always thought that there was more to it than just test levels. I mean, there are other things at play as well (myostatin, insulin, HGH, etc.). I don't know if the mechanism of muscle growth and the factors that influence it are understood that well.

But yeah, the entire fitness industry is basically a giant scam. Especially the supplement industry.

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 07:14 PM
Body geometry has a lot to do with it. Wrist and ankle size, for instance, are very good predictors of maximum genetic potential.

But, regardless, even those with very thin wrists and ankles like me have the ability to have a muscular and lean look. There's no such thing as "endomorphs" and all that bull.

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 07:15 PM
But yeah, the entire fitness industry is basically a giant scam. Especially the supplement industry.

A lot of it, sure. But definitely not all of it. Things like fish oil and ginko, whey protein, vitamin D, creatine, etc, are actually useful.

WhiskeyEE
05-27-2012, 07:19 PM
A lot of it, sure. But definitely not all of it. Things like fish oil and ginko, whey protein, vitamin D, creatine, etc, are actually useful.

creatine and beta-alanine type supps are good for energy. I take a pre-workout stimulant before leg days when I'm in a deficit. I'm weary of abusing them and my nervous system though.

I mean stuff like fish oil, vitamins, yeah, they have their place. But there isn't a single supplement that lives up to the exaggerated claims perpetuated by the supplement industry.

And it isn't only that. Things like whey protein are only useful if you don't get enough protein from other sources. And the optimum protein intake is much lower than what supplement companies will tell you. I can guarantee you that most people who take a whey protein supplement do not benefit from them.

r2473
05-27-2012, 07:22 PM
Body geometry has a lot to do with it. Wrist and ankle size, for instance, are very good predictors of maximum genetic potential.

But, regardless, even those with very thin wrists and ankles like me have the ability to have a muscular and lean look.

Yes.

Given a certain size and structure, "test" is the "real" limiting factor. And like anything else, most people are "normal" and there are a few outliers on either end of the spectrum.

http://www.weightrainer.net/potential.html

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 07:23 PM
creatine and beta-alanine type supps are good for energy. I take a pre-workout stimulant before leg days when I'm in a deficit. I'm weary of abusing them and my nervous system though.

I mean stuff like fish oil, vitamins, yeah, they have their place. But there isn't a single supplement that lives up to the exaggerated claims perpetuated by the supplement industry.

And it isn't only that. Things like whey protein are only useful if you don't get enough protein from other sources. And the optimum protein intake is much lower than what supplement companies will tell you. I can guarantee you that most people who take a whey protein supplement do not benefit from them.

Protein requirements actually go way up if you're running a calorie deficit versus maintenance. And I think fish oil is everything it's cracked up to be - proper omega 6/3 balance appears for all the world to play a significant role in all sorts of inflammation-related maladies such as cholesterol.

And the supplement industry has also given us tons of supplements as part of our everyday food intakes.

WhiskeyEE
05-27-2012, 07:32 PM
Protein requirements actually go way up if you're running a calorie deficit versus maintenance. And I think fish oil is everything it's cracked up to be - proper omega 6/3 balance appears for all the world to play a significant role in all sorts of inflammation-related maladies such as cholesterol.

And the supplement industry has also given us tons of supplements as part of our everyday food intakes.

They may go up. My point is that you don't need 1.5g of protein per pound of bodyweight or whatever supplement companies try to say you do. Every credible study that has been performed has cited that anything over ~0.7g of protein per lb of lean body mass is more or less a waste. Most people get that without using supplements.

Do you know how the whey protein industry started? Whey protein is a by-product of making cheese. They used to just throw it away, but then they figured out that they could sell it to gullible people who don't know how much protein they need.

I'm not an expert on the fish oil thing. I know that it has anti-inflammatory properties and that's about it. One time I took 15 fish oil capsules (on an empty stomach no less) in order to try to alleviate an inflammatory issue that I had. I subsequently puked and then the nasty smell of the vomited up fish oil made me puke again. So be careful with fish oil...

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 07:36 PM
They may go up. My point is that you don't need 1.5g of protein per pound of bodyweight or whatever supplement companies try to say you do. Every credible study that has been performed has cited that anything over ~0.7g of protein per lb of lean body mass is more or less a waste. Most people get that without using supplements.

Do you know how the whey protein industry started? Whey protein is a by-product of making cheese. They used to just throw it away, but then they figured out that they could sell it to gullible people who don't know how much protein they need.

I'm not an expert on the fish oil thing. I know that it has anti-inflammatory properties and that's about it. One time I took 15 fish oil capsules (on an empty stomach no less) in order to try to alleviate an inflammatory issue that I had. I subsequently puked and then the nasty smell of the vomited up fish oil made me puke again. So be careful with fish oil...

In the case of a person new to strength training who is on a calorie deficit, they do actually require 1+ g of protein per lb of bodyweight to maintain nitrogen balance. But yeah most people don't need that at all.

Trained athletes demonstrate significant benefit by getting 1-1.5 g of protein per lb of bodyweight than they do consuming 0.7 g protein per lb of bodyweight.

And whey protein really is an excellent protein. It's pretty much the best protein in existence.

Tennishacker
05-27-2012, 07:48 PM
Weight gain/loss is simple.

Calories in, calories expended.

It was mentioned that she was training with the USTA high performance...

achokshi99
05-27-2012, 07:51 PM
I think the commentators kept going back to her conditioning over and over again. I dont think they presented Oudin as an incredibly hard worker, pretty direct about the conditioning needing to be addressed.

I have seen Oudin's mother, father and sister on TV. Every one of them is a normal weight. Nope, this isn't genes. Serena, in contrast, has obesity in her family and so could point to genes as a complicating factor.

And if you don't think 5'4" tall and 140 is horribly overweight for a tennis player . . . . I don't know what to tell you. Geez, I'm that height, and when I get to 140 I go into a full-on panic.

I just think it was really weird that the commentators were making such a big deal about what a hard worker she is. It didn't make sense when you looked at the woman they were talking about.

WhiskeyEE
05-27-2012, 07:54 PM
Trained athletes demonstrate significant benefit by getting 1-1.5 g of protein per lb of bodyweight than they do consuming 0.7 g protein per lb of bodyweight.

And whey protein really is an excellent protein. It's pretty much the best protein in existence.

Show me a study from a respected journal that says so. You can't. That's a myth. The 0.7g per lb of lean body mass (which is less than 0.7g per lb of bodyweight) was determined for athletes and those trying to gain muscle. ie for muscle repair and hypertrophy.

Whey protein has a good amino acid profile, but so do many other sources. It isn't the best protein. Even casein is better. Any meat protein will have comparable AA profiles. You don't need it.

LeeD
05-27-2012, 07:54 PM
Not condoning the weight gain.
MO uses to hands on every groundie. Little reach. She's not quick to begin with. So, how did she do so well a couple years ago?
I think, by hitting angles and hard.
Maybe she finds that a heavier body can stay more solid to allow harder hitting? She's not going to outrun anyone, so why not try to outhit most.?

achokshi99
05-27-2012, 07:58 PM
USTA wanted to move Oudin out of the her home area in FL and to NYC cause of the toxic personal environment she had to deal with in recent years. She is like what, 19-20? Beat sharapova in 2009? Got all those deals, has her family structure wrecked, and then has to deal w/that when she was 17 or so. A lot of people gravitate to food for emotional help and when you got the family issues she did at her age combined with the scrutiny and then you come off your "god mode" level of playing that you sustained for a week in the USO and start losing...well you basically have your personal and professional lives both upside down. lot of stress = lots of cortisol.

but overall this is her career so she does need to get back into shape if she wants to compete and she prob is realizing this.


Weight gain/loss is simple.

Calories in, calories expended.

It was mentioned that she was training with the USTA high performance...

OddJack
05-27-2012, 07:58 PM
You're exactly right that one brother's metabolism may be lower than another's, despite equivalent activity levels. However, if you could read, you would've noticed the sentence in my above post that said:

If they genetically have a lower than normal metabolism, then they need to eat less than normal to accommodate that.

Overeating is eating above your caloric maintenance. If one brother has a genetically lower metabolism, then obviously he needs to eat less than the other in order to avoid overeating.

Yeah, they do. Every single one. No one can become fat unless they eat too much, barring some rare and serious disorder or disease.

....Eat less than normal....

....Eat too much.....

These are very simplistic comments. Thanks for the insight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BokTyOvPe2Q

Obesity is a serious issue in America, specially in school kids. There are psychological as well as other issue mentioned earlier.

Oh? you have bad metabolism? why dont you eat less?

You guys talk like you floss your teeth twice a day. Losing weight is easier said than done. Obesity is a condition that in many cases needs proper treatment as well as diet and exercise I just find it funny that you guys make it sound like every fat person is doing it out of stupidity or pure pleasure.

Oh, eat less!
Oh, dont eat too much!

Muhahahaaaa..

WhiskeyEE
05-27-2012, 08:01 PM
....Eat less than normal....

....Eat too much.....

These are very simplistic comments. Thanks for the insight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BokTyOvPe2Q

Obesity is a serious issue in America, specially in school kids. There are psychological as well as other issue mentioned earlier.

Oh? you have bad metabolism? why dont you eat less?

You guys talk like you floss your teeth twice a day. Losing weight is easier said than done. Obesity is a condition that in many cases needs proper treatment as well as diet and exercise I just find it funny that you guys make it sound like every fat person is doing it out of stupidity or pure pleasure.

Oh, eat less!
Oh, dont eat too much!

Muhahahaaaa..

Thanks Oprah. Now run along and let the grown ups talk. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 08:04 PM
....Eat less than normal....

....Eat too much.....

These are very simplistic comments. Thanks for the insight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BokTyOvPe2Q

Obesity is a serious issue in America, specially in school kids. There are psychological as well as other issue mentioned earlier.

Oh? you have bad metabolism? why dont you eat less?

You guys talk like you floss your teeth twice a day. Losing weight is easier said than done. Obesity is a condition that in many cases needs proper treatment as well as diet and exercise I just find it funny that you guys make it sound like every fat person is doing it out of stupidity or pure pleasure.

Oh, eat less!
Oh, dont eat too much!

Muhahahaaaa..

No one said it was easy.

It is simple, though.

If you are fat, you eat too much. Get your eating under control and you've won 95% of the battle.

I did it. I'm 5'9 and was over 200 lbs at one point. One day I decided to get my eating under control and a few months later I was below 160.

Timbo's hopeless slice
05-27-2012, 08:04 PM
look, it is an input/output equation, every single time.

however, as in the example I provided of my wife and I, your mileage may vary, and some of the people who are so very proud of their 'lean physiques' most likely work a lot less hard than others who they consider 'overweight'

(I am thinking especially of the poster Yonexpurestorm who has lost a lot of weight lately and is very fit indeed, but still cops the 'lose weight to get better' mantra from ppl here. I am very confident he is fitter and works harder than 90% of the posters on TT)

oh, and for the record, I am 175cm and 80kg, sorry I cbf working that out in imperial terms for y'all

SwankPeRFection
05-27-2012, 08:05 PM
She's a kid, I'm sure her eating habits are not that of Novak. lol

Girls also tend to have a harder time with their body build which is dependant a lot upon their genes. Europeans tend to be leaner by default be them men or women, Melanie is from the south and trust me, there's a lot of temtation of great food where she's from. She could also be packing on a bit more midsection weight if she's more stresses in her life. Could be she's being pushed too hard and isn't having as much fun as she was in 2009, who knows. When people are under stress, they tend to have a harder time losing the fat from their midsections.

OddJack
05-27-2012, 08:08 PM
Thanks Oprah. Now run along and let the grown ups talk. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

Heh..nothing against Oprah, but I am not fat.

Yeah this way of talking suits you better. I knew where you come from when you said you dont read posts. Once in a while a subject comes up and rotten tomatoes like you think you know something about it...oh dont eat too much!

Muahahaaaa..talking about clue!:)

The Wreck
05-27-2012, 08:10 PM
There also comes a time for most of us that our awesome kid metabolism just up and disappears. The ability to eat whatever whenever and not see the effects of it have to go away at some point. I'm 20 myself, and that just happened to me within the last 6 months. Went from basically having visible abs and flat stomach while eating junk and just playing tennis to all of a sudden gaining about 20 pounds in 6 months, (granted, going from 155 to 175 as a 6'3" male isn't that noticeable), without changing my habits at all. Just had to recognize that I'm going to actually have to try now with the eating and exercising. Maybe Melanie has also hit that point.

WhiskeyEE
05-27-2012, 08:12 PM
Heh..nothing against Oprah, but I am not fat.

Yeah this way of talking suits you better. I knew where you come from when you said you dont read posts. Once in a while a subject comes up and rotten tomatoes like you think you know something about it...oh dont eat too much!

Muahahaaaa..talking about clue!:)

If you're knowledgeable and intelligently reply to one of my posts, I'll be respectful.

But don't expect me to be nice when you talk out of your *** and iterate the same bull **** that the average "woe is me" American does.

OddJack
05-27-2012, 08:14 PM
No one said it was easy.

It is simple, though.

If you are fat, you eat too much. Get your eating under control and you've won 95% of the battle.

I did it. I'm 5'9 and was over 200 lbs at one point. One day I decided to get my eating under control and a few months later I was below 160.

That's excellent!

It's great that you could do it. But over weight people should not look down at or ridiculed because of their condition since the reason behind it can be complicated. That was the point.

Big_Dangerous
05-27-2012, 08:16 PM
the thing about exercise is, it makes you hungry. you have to refuel. and this is where we get into trouble. lots of athletes eat energy bars (200cal) and gels and sports drinks. the favored sports drinks can be upwards of 300 calories for 16oz.

you can easily ruin an entire days worth of exercise by eating a lot of the wrong kinds of foods. Tennis players are people. And a lot of people struggle with poor to awful eating habits they have had a long long time. Sweets is the primary culprit. Lots of mothers love to give sweets to their kids. Finally, troubled homes often produce dysfunctional eaters. those that eat to comfort themselves. that might be something to examine as well.

She has had a lot of stress in her life. Having what might be called now a fluke run at the US Open at a young age put enormous pressure on her. she signed a lot of endorsement deals and she may feel she isn't living up to the standard she wants to deliver to those who had faith in her.


Plus they travel so much. You might not see Oudin playing many WTA/ATP Tour level matches, but that means she's probably making the rounds at challengers and lower level tournaments to try and get her ranking up and earn money.

All that travelling means you have to eat most of your meals away from home. Eating out every night, even when you work out can really offset your workouts.

Plus she's a woman, and I think women at the professional level tend to struggle more with weight than the guys.

OddJack
05-27-2012, 08:17 PM
If you're knowledgeable and intelligently reply to one of my posts, I'll be respectful.

But don't expect me to be nice when you talk out of your *** and iterate the same bull **** that the average "woe is me" American does.


Oh, sorry. Cant talk to you intelligently, you wouldnt understand. So I'll talk to you out of my *** and you can chew it all up. :)

WhiskeyEE
05-27-2012, 08:19 PM
Oh, sorry. Cant talk to you intelligently, you wouldnt understand. So I'll talk to you out of my *** and you can chew it all up. :)

No, I understand you perfectly. Now like I said, get lost and go wallow in your self pity.

jonnythan
05-27-2012, 08:20 PM
That's excellent!

It's great that you could do it. But over weight people should not look down at or ridiculed because of their condition since the reason behind it can be complicated. That was the point.

I'm not sure anyone is looking down on them or ridiculing them. I know I'm not.

I'm stating a fact, though. Virtually every fat person is fat because they eat too much, and they will lose weight if they eat less (and exercise a little bit).

OddJack
05-27-2012, 08:23 PM
No, I understand you perfectly. Now like I said, get lost and go wallow in your self pity.

hmmmm...no I think I will stay. I wanna look at a little doggy here that has started barking.

Puppy! puppy...! come here~!:)

achokshi99
05-27-2012, 08:25 PM
Why would people who have lean physiques "most likely" be working less hard than those that the lean people consider overweight. Yes YMMV but it's after one puts in the requisite effort and discipline. Most people have no idea how to eat, no idea about controlling their insulin levels, how much exercise they are really doing, etc. and going back to diet the type of sacrifice it takes to get the results they want.

I'd say these type of people tend to be the 22-25% bf type of guys that think abs come from doing ab exercises and just eating a bit better for like a month. So when they cut out their caloric intake by 200 cals per day either via diet or by doing 30 min of cardio but do nothing else, they get a few results in a week or so but then that's it, they complain and are exasperated that they are not cover models for fitness magazines.

To get some sort of ab visibility you need to be around 14% if you're very lucky. For me with a 7 point caliper test i need to be at 12ish to have a pretty well defined midsection. so first off, to get to that lean physique will take a long period of time for a 22-25% weekend warrior that thinks they watch what they eat. Most people don't have a clue as to how much bf they really have to begin with. Because they are not realistic about their baseline level, they don't have a clue about how much they need to do and for how long to get to that lean level.

You said your wife walks a ton. So she plays tennis and walks a lot. You coach and play tennis a few times a week as well right? What level of tennis are you at? From my observations, most tennis under 4.5 is just short error rallies where most exercise is just walking to pick up the ball. You say you and your wife "generally" eat the same stuff but within how many calories are you guys in the same area. A 100-200 extra calories you may take in per meals vs her add up.



look, it is an input/output equation, every single time.

however, as in the example I provided of my wife and I, your mileage may vary, and some of the people who are so very proud of their 'lean physiques' most likely work a lot less hard than others who they consider 'overweight'

(I am thinking especially of the poster Yonexpurestorm who has lost a lot of weight lately and is very fit indeed, but still cops the 'lose weight to get better' mantra from ppl here' I am very confident he is fitter and works harder than 90% fo the posters on TT)

DRII
05-27-2012, 08:26 PM
some people cant accept the reality ...

yes if you dont eat and train much everyone loses weight. n just btw dramatically eating nothing is very bad for your body.

BUT its a fact that its way easier for the one guy and it may be much more difficult for the other and yes that are genetics.

its the same with being good at sports, some people just suck at sports not because they are lazy but because they suck at it naturally. ofc they can manage to improve but they will never reach the level of a talented athlete.

i know a "fat guy" since kindergarten. he was always the fat guy. his parents and his sister are fat too. he has/d many friends and did normal sport activity in his childhood. he played hockey and soccer. but he still was always fat. he didnt fail at ball sports but he was fat. in his teenage years he began to workout more seriously bc of obvious reasons. it helped but hes still not really a sixpack guy. and it was way harder to come anywhere near normal weight for him than for most other people. that are the genes and not because he was lazy/overeating. besides if they just overeat? then try to overeat. you cannot do it if you are not hungry. you will come to a point where you have to puke its not this easy to simply say overeat and being lazy. simple minded folks im leaving this thread now.

You're absolutely right, some people just lack empathy and refuse to acknowledge others' experiences and realities. Its really quite a shame!

However genetics and its effects on weight gain or loss (and a whole hosts of other bio-chemical processes) is documented and scientifically verified by varying degrees and is irrefutable. If these close-minded individuals refuse to recognize it, there no changing their mind. Ignorance is bliss!

WhiskeyEE
05-27-2012, 08:35 PM
You're absolutely right, some people just lack empathy and refuse to acknowledge others' experiences and realities. Its really quite a shame!

However genetics and its effects on weight gain or loss (and a whole hosts of other bio-chemical processes) is documented and scientifically verified by varying degrees and is irrefutable. If these close-minded individuals refuse to recognize it, there no changing their mind. Ignorance is bliss!

What's also irrefutable is the fact that weight loss is as simple as eating below your caloric maintenance. I don't think that anyone in this thread is debating that genetics don't play a role in what your maintenance level may be, or even other contributory factors like appetite and discipline.

I think that the poster above you hit the nail on the head. Most people have either unrealistic expectations (and then give up before stating things like "I can't lose weight") or are misinformed about what proper diet and exercise really are.

OddJack
05-27-2012, 08:38 PM
I'm not sure anyone is looking down on them or ridiculing them. I know I'm not.

I'm stating a fact, though. Virtually every fat person is fat because they eat too much, and they will lose weight if they eat less (and exercise a little bit).

In most cases that is true. However obesity can be secondary to some diseases such as hypothalami.

I may be a little sensitive to this issue since I have seen school kids ridiculed because of their condition. I believe there are psychological behind it rooting from their home and the way they are raised and their life style. Just telling people you are eating too much or order them to eat less is not going to resolve the issue.

WhiskeyEE
05-27-2012, 08:52 PM
A relevant article that some of you should read:

http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_blog_hammer_velocity_shugart/die_fatty_die

Genetics? Maybe genetics loaded the gun, but you pulled the ****ing trigger and reloaded twice.

Timbo's hopeless slice
05-27-2012, 09:06 PM
You said your wife walks a ton. So she plays tennis and walks a lot. You coach and play tennis a few times a week as well right? What level of tennis are you at? From my observations, most tennis under 4.5 is just short error rallies where most exercise is just walking to pick up the ball. You say you and your wife "generally" eat the same stuff but within how many calories are you guys in the same area. A 100-200 extra calories you may take in per meals vs her add up.

I play open tournaments and keep getting rated ITN 3 (NTRP 5.5)

This happens in on-court assessment training for new coaches where I always seem to end up being the 'sample player'

(which drives me mad cos I think I'm really an ITN 4 (NTRP 5.0)

She actually eats more than me 'cos she snacks on crap, lol!

As I said, I am 175cm/80kg, she is 174cm/68kg.

I referred to the poster Yonexpurestorm as he makes a good reference point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQZspFkHI7U&feature=relmfu

people in the thread keep telling him to lose weight.. (he is the one in the grey)

it isn't his movement, it is his FH UE count...

DRII
05-27-2012, 09:11 PM
What's also irrefutable is the fact that weight loss is as simple as eating below your caloric maintenance. I don't think that anyone in this thread is debating that genetics don't play a role in what your maintenance level may be, or even other contributory factors like appetite and discipline.

I think that the poster above you hit the nail on the head. Most people have either unrealistic expectations (and then give up before stating things like "I can't lose weight") or are misinformed about what proper diet and exercise really are.

what you refer to as 'caloric maintenance' is heavily influenced by one's genes!

and many were refuting that genes have any influence...

and again proper diet and exercise varies person to person in large part due to genetics.

WhiskeyEE
05-27-2012, 09:18 PM
what you refer to as 'caloric maintenance' is heavily influenced by one's genes!

and many were refuting that genes have any influence...

and again proper diet and exercise varies person to person in large part due to genetics.

Come on... I didn't refute that. I actually stated those things (except the 2nd one).

Look, my sister has Hashimoto's disease. I understand that rare disorders can cause fat gain and make it virtually impossible to lose weight (at least before receiving proper treatment).

This isn't the case for most people. Yes, some people are vexed with slow metabolisms and some even have a high appetite on top of that. But really, there are much worse ailments that you could be plagued by and it isn't some sort of amazing feat to overcome.

Genetics may make it a bit harder for you. But don't use it as an excuse to stay fat and moan about how you can't do anything about it.

purge
05-27-2012, 11:20 PM
prerequisition does play a huge role btw. some bodies just answer hard physical excercise with beefing up in all departments. not just the muscles but also core fat tissue. theres alot of players on the WTA tour that look rather sturdy than slim. you dont really expect them all to just have bad eating habits? apparently thats how a good part of the female bodies react to it.

just take sabine lisicki for example. she could diet all she want but as long as she plays professional tennis shell never look like maria sharapova. im the opposit.. im very slim and i dont diet at all. rather the other way round. i have to look out so that when i excercisei dont keep losing weight. different bodies react differently to physical demands

cc0509
05-28-2012, 01:55 AM
I know. In my 20s I was exactly like your friend, so I can say there is a genetic component from experience. I could eat 4, 5 pastries, banana splits and I weighed less than a hundred pounds. My friends were disgusted.
Now that I'm older however, I'm just like everyone else :|

Yes, you are 100% correct. There is a big genetic component to metabolism.
When I was younger I could do no activity and stay in bed and eat ice cream all day every day if I wanted to and I still could not put on weight. My parents were both the same when they were younger. As one gets older of course it changes a little and you have to start paying attention to eating healthier and exercising.

namelessone
05-28-2012, 05:28 AM
I find it funny how everybody makes weight loss to be such a complicated issue. It's not. Unless you have a real crippling condition that makes near impossible for you to lose weight(say maybe a thyroid issue), then training(weights,cardio) and not eating as much WILL bring you results. If you stay the course that is.

Thing is, in today's world, people are messed up in how they eat. Portions are way way too big in parts of the world and many tend to value SIZE instead of the nutritional value(and taste of course) of that food. People don't need massive amount of calories unless they are working in an enviroment that requires them(where there is a high level of physical exertion let's say). Also, most of today's "food" is not only altered for the worse but many of the things we find in commerce are LOADED with salt and sugar/

To conclude, you don't need anything out of the ordinary: eat less(but with better value), train more, try to sleep 7-8 hours and in 2-3 months time you will already start to see changes, not only in how you look, but how you feel, lighter, more energetic and so on.

Posture Guy
05-28-2012, 05:43 AM
I actually do floss twice a day.

Posture Guy
05-28-2012, 05:45 AM
jonnythan......you misunderstood the point I was attempting to make, and that's probably my fault for not communicating clearly. I think we're in perfect agreement.

I absolutely CAN get a lean muscular look. For 51, I somewhat have it now, but not to the degree i've had it before. If i really watched my diet and upped my workouts, i absolutely could get the lean, muscular look. What i was saying was i could never get the big bulky muscular look, just not my body type. You mentioned the Brad Pitt 'cut' look, that's the perfect example of my body type. I've gotten there a few times in my life.

Kenny022593
05-28-2012, 07:22 AM
I only read the first page...

YOU GAIN WEIGHT IF YOU EAT OVER YOUR TOTAL CALORIES EXPENDED.

Weight gain and loss has nothing to do with genetics. It has everything to do with calories in vs calories out. The genetics only play a roll in body composition and where your body stores fat and loses it.

Maui19
05-28-2012, 08:03 AM
I do not understand how a professional tennis player gets so visibly overweight. I have women on my team who are in their 50's who have had multiple children and have desk jobs but who are slimmer than Oudin. Need I mention that none of us can hire a fitness trainer or be active all day every day like a tennis pro.

Not everyone is driven to succeed. I don't know the WTA like I know the PGA Tour, but on the PGA Tour there are a lot of what I call "paycheck pros." These guys coast along doing just enough to keep their tour card, and make a ton of $$$$ in the process. The guys are the top are really driven. They don't skip practices, and they practice harder. The eat right, they work hard and they have fire in their belly.

Some people just have pie in their belly.

r2473
05-28-2012, 08:06 AM
......and they have fire in their belly.

Some people just have pie in their belly.

That's funny :)

Posture Guy
05-28-2012, 08:11 AM
Classic!

(obligatory extra characters to meet TW's stupid post length requirement).

DRII
05-28-2012, 08:33 AM
Come on... I didn't refute that. I actually stated those things (except the 2nd one).

Look, my sister has Hashimoto's disease. I understand that rare disorders can cause fat gain and make it virtually impossible to lose weight (at least before receiving proper treatment).

This isn't the case for most people. Yes, some people are vexed with slow metabolisms and some even have a high appetite on top of that. But really, there are much worse ailments that you could be plagued by and it isn't some sort of amazing feat to overcome.

Genetics may make it a bit harder for you. But don't use it as an excuse to stay fat and moan about how you can't do anything about it.


Why are you assuming that over-weight people are making excuses and not doing anything about it? Is that what you do? Sounds like it...

Often those who struggle with weight work much harder just to try and maintain a semblance of shape aesthetically; and most are healthy.

Seems like you're masking some insecurities!

Genetics and its influence on weight is a scientific fact; period, point blank. Don't use ignorance to bolster your judgmental attitude.

Tennis_Hands
05-28-2012, 08:57 AM
Why are you assuming that over-weight people are making excuses and not doing anything about it? Is that what you do? Sounds like it....

I am pretty sure, that the majority (do not have stats, but I would guess somewhere around 80%) of the overweight people are making excuses to not get on that bicycle and do something about their problem. That doesn't mean, that there aren't people, that have health problems, that cause their overweight problem.

Often those who struggle with weight work much harder just to try and maintain a semblance of shape aesthetically; and most are healthy.

Yes, but you describe the minority. As already mentioned, it should not be a problem to control your weight, if your calorie intake is carefully measured and sufficiently adjusted to your body needs.

Seems like you're masking some insecurities!

Seems like you are. Why reject something that is a fact? The majority of the people with weight problem do not take care of their calorie input vs. calorie output.

Genetics and its influence on weight is a scientific fact; period, point blank. Don't use ignorance to bolster your judgmental attitude.

It is not a one way street, you know. You are having an extreme point of view here. How would you comment on the fact, that people, who emigrate from lands with relative low income per capita in lands, that are relatively well off, come thin as twigs (most of the times) or relatively lean and (sometimes within a couple of months/years) gain a lot of weight, which was previously not the case with them. Do genetics kick in only at particular altitude, place or when eating particular food?

BTW. I am 183/78 kg, so I am hardly hiding insecurities.

Posture Guy
05-28-2012, 09:34 AM
DRII....I believe that genetics play 'some' role here, but my view on it's role for most people is clearly laid out above.

Do you believe it's more important than behavior decisions?

Tennishacker
05-28-2012, 09:43 AM
I only read the first page...

YOU GAIN WEIGHT IF YOU EAT OVER YOUR TOTAL CALORIES EXPENDED.
.

Yesssss, look at the impoverished (i.e. Africa) countries where getting food is a daily struggle.

Skin and bones

DRII
05-28-2012, 09:54 AM
DRII....I believe that genetics play 'some' role here, but my view on it's role for most people is clearly laid out above.

Do you believe it's more important than behavior decisions?

No, not more important. But, thats really not the correct question. Two people can have the exact same behavior and make the exact same decisions yet come out with two completely different outcomes.

DRII
05-28-2012, 10:08 AM
I am pretty sure, that the majority (do not have stats, but I would guess somewhere around 80%) of the overweight people are making excuses to not get on that bicycle and do something about their problem. That doesn't mean, that there aren't people, that have health problems, that cause their overweight problem.



Yes, but you describe the minority. As already mentioned, it should not be a problem to control your weight, if your calorie intake is carefully measured and sufficiently adjusted to your body needs.



Seems like you are. Why reject something that is a fact? The majority of the people with weight problem do not take care of their calorie input vs. calorie output.



It is not a one way street, you know. You are having an extreme point of view here. How would you comment on the fact, that people, who emigrate from lands with relative low income per capita in lands, that are relatively well off, come thin as twigs (most of the times) or relatively lean and (sometimes within a couple of months/years) gain a lot of weight, which was previously not the case with them. Do genetics kick in only at particular altitude, place or when eating particular food?

BTW. I am 183/78 kg, so I am hardly hiding insecurities.


Actually nowadays in the West, particularly the U.S. and Canada, its the poor that have more issues with obesity and the relatively well off who don't.

Its because for decades salt, fat, and especially sugar in various forms have been highly subsidized, while fresh fruit and vegetables are expensive and hardly available in some areas. Not to mention all of the chemicals and hormones in our food or in the plastics the food is stored in.

I think this situation exacerbates the genetic sensitivity some of us have with weight gain. Hence, I drink from only stainless steel or glass containers and eat pretty much only rabbit food and/or lean organic meat 5 days a week. All of which is very expensive and something that many can not afford. And I do it mainly because I like looking a certain way...

Its really not a good situation for many people...

Tennis_Hands
05-28-2012, 10:22 AM
Actually nowadays in the West, particularly the U.S. and Canada, its the poor that have more issues with obesity and the relatively well off who don't.

Its because for decades salt, fat, and especially sugar in various forms have been highly subsidized, while fresh fruit and vegetables are expensive and hardly available in some areas. Not to mention all of the chemicals and hormones in our food or in the plastics the food is stored in.

I think this situation exacerbates the genetic sensitivity some of us have with weight gain. Hence, I drink from only stainless steel or glass containers and eat pretty much only rabbit food and/or lean organic meat 5 days a week. All of which is very expensive and something that many can not afford. And I do it mainly because I like looking a certain way...

Its really not a good situation for many people...

So, you agree, that food is the main concern here. Crappy food, salty food, sweet food, fast food. That is what causes the most problems with overweight. I would add to that the absolute and total unwillingness of the people to start incorporating even a moderate exercise in their everyday life.

Heck, I have a lot of friends, that look at me in a certain way, because I use every spare minute (outside work and the work related reading at home, that is) to do cycling, tennis, bouldering etc. I call them and ask them if they want to join me. The usual answer is "I would love to, but I can't" and proceed with their sunday grill party. Do you remember this ad?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obdd31Q9PqA&feature=BFa&list=PL2812E7C4BF7EBBB3

It is the same thing all over the place.

And with the poor people even in USA, the problem is again about the food they eat and the fact, that they not exercise nearly enough. Instead of walking they use cars. Instead of drinking water and tea, they drink Coca Cola, Pepsi and energydrinks, that are the crappiest product ever created. Nah, genetics play a minor role in this.

DRII
05-28-2012, 10:30 AM
Well obviously we largely agree, but disagree on the degree in which genetics plays a role.

I believe it is rather substantial.

BlueClayIsRealClay
05-28-2012, 10:41 AM
I only read the first page...

YOU GAIN WEIGHT IF YOU EAT OVER YOUR TOTAL CALORIES EXPENDED.

Weight gain and loss has nothing to do with genetics. It has everything to do with calories in vs calories out. The genetics only play a roll in body composition and where your body stores fat and loses it.

That's not true. Wood has calories. But if you eat wood you won't gain weight.

WhiskeyEE
05-28-2012, 11:32 AM
Why are you assuming that over-weight people are making excuses and not doing anything about it? Is that what you do? Sounds like it...

Often those who struggle with weight work much harder just to try and maintain a semblance of shape aesthetically; and most are healthy.

Seems like you're masking some insecurities!

Genetics and its influence on weight is a scientific fact; period, point blank. Don't use ignorance to bolster your judgmental attitude.

So how exactly am I masking insecurities? By refusing to sugar coat the truth? I'm sorry if the truth hurts, but that's just the way it is.

Lets be honest here, most overweight people don't take real initiative to change their situation. If you'd read the article that I posted in this thread, I think that the following accurately depicts the situation in the US and Canada:

...you've "tried everything to lose weight." Horse ****! When pressed about the details, the truth always comes out: "Oh, I tried fasting, Slim Fast, the 48-Hour Hollywood Miracle diet, the Ab Blaster 5000, the cabbage soup diet, blah, blah, blah..."

Hey, Wide Load, ever try a real exercise program and a real, sensible diet? ...Ever try being consistent for more than three days?

"Oh, I've tried everything."

Noooooo, you starved for six days, then ate a bucket of ice cream and cried. Why don't you eat healthy for six months and do some exercises besides laps between the couch and the kitchen? Bet you haven't tried that.

Yeah, you've tried everything. Every stupid ****ing thing you could find except actual healthy eating and exercise.

Obesity is more a problem with self discipline than genetics. That isn't ignorance. It's reality.

A big reason for that is the desire for instant gratification, which they can't get from dieting, but can get from food.

jonnythan
05-28-2012, 12:00 PM
Yesssss, look at the impoverished (i.e. Africa) countries where getting food is a daily struggle.

Skin and bones

They are skin and bones.

I'm reading your post as sarcastic but it's hard to be sure. Can you clarify?

Bjorn99
05-28-2012, 01:00 PM
Some doctors were talking about it in the "weight of the nation" HBO series and I've also read some articles about the subject in "science news". Sorry, I don't have a link. But it makes complete sense to me. At 20, I could eat tons and never put on a gram. I had friends who put on 2 pounds with half a pastry. The difference was obvious. My metabolism burned calories faster. And no, there was no difference in our level of activity.
Most of what I read confirmed my suspicions. Some hormonal anomalies cause intense gain weight. Down syndrome kids are almost always overweight. You cannot eliminate the genetic factor.
Naturally, if you starve yourself, you will probably not stay fat no matter what. But people can eat the exact same meal and store more or less fat. Metabolisms are more or less efficient.


This person, is the closest to being right of all of you. HORMONAL ANOMALIES. Everyone, don't believe a word anyone says EVER.

But do this, prior to the widespread use of plastic. Google image. Then after the inception of plastic GOOGLE IMAGE. Fantastic difference that even the most argumentative person in the world would probably notice.

In this case, a picture is worth a thousand *******s, er opinions.

Emet74
05-28-2012, 01:07 PM
Of course most people can lose weight if that's their major goal in life, but for many it's not. They have other priorities, including work, family and yes even socializing in a sedentary way.

Genetics makes things unfair because some people will look much heavier than others without a ton of difference in lifestyle. I'm tall and long-limbed so whatever extra weight I carry isn't nearly as noticable as it can be for others. By dressing strategically, I can't tell how many times I've been complimented by guys for looking "in shape" and been told I "must" be working out to look as I do when in reality I'm a lazy couch potato :) These guys seem to think that unless you jump up and down all day you're gonna be enormous and that's just not the case -

WhiskeyEE
05-28-2012, 01:12 PM
Of course most people can lose weight if that's their major goal in life, but for many it's not. They have other priorities, including work, family and yes even socializing in a sedentary way.

Genetics makes things unfair because some people will look much heavier than others without a ton of difference in lifestyle. I'm tall and long-limbed so whatever extra weight I carry isn't nearly as noticable as it can be for others. By dressing strategically, I can't tell how many times I've been complimented by guys for looking "in shape" and been told I "must" be working out to look as I do when in reality I'm a lazy couch potato :) These guys seem to think that unless you jump up and down all day you're gonna be enormous and that's just not the case -

Exercise is really overrated. The big culprit is calorie dense food, which most fat people get a lot of.

Try getting fat on chicken breast and potatoes. Without a crap load of dressing or something, it probably won't happen. But eat the same 'amount' (ie volume) in waffles, cookies, bagels, etc. and all of a sudden you've consumed 3x the amount of calories.

If people would just monitor caloric intake and lower it until they started losing weight, they would realize how simple fat loss is, regardless of genetics.

Li Ching Yuen
05-28-2012, 02:07 PM
****, this actually turned into a great thread.

However, something hasn't been mentioned boldly enough in here: obesity = negligence.

Many people have a few pounds over, but getting to the point of being a walking round ball is a deeper deeper problem. And given how a lot of people are like that in some parts of the word, I would think it extends to some very large communities/states/regions/countries issues as well, which is a worrying sign.

Rjtennis
05-30-2012, 07:43 PM
I couldnt believe how much weight Oudin put on. She must not be putting in the hard yards if she arrived at the FO over weight. Fitness is an area players can control and it amazes me when professional players show up overweight and out of shape. Melanie does not have a big game, so she needs to be very fit to win against quality players.

t135
05-30-2012, 07:46 PM
Could it be an attempt to bulk up? Serena Williams style?

corbind
06-25-2012, 03:51 PM
I only read the first page...

YOU GAIN WEIGHT IF YOU EAT OVER YOUR TOTAL CALORIES EXPENDED.

Weight gain and loss has nothing to do with genetics. It has everything to do with calories in vs calories out. The genetics only play a roll in body composition and where your body stores fat and loses it.

I'm confused....you say:

1. Weight gain and loss has nothing to do with genetics
2. The genetics only play a roll in body

Which one is correct? Obviously #1 is not if #2 is. And "role" is the correct word where you used "roll."

Do some research about weight and you'll see genetics DOES have a role in many things including body type and weight. Obviously we're given a certain mold based on our genetic code which will ultimately be tweaked by our daily actions. Those actions include how many calories we eat and how many we expend. What type of foods we eat affects eating habits as some foods burn VERY quickly (say sugar) which we can become hungry faster. Slow-burn fuels keep us full longer and often keep us from eating excessive calories.

TERRASTAR18
06-25-2012, 04:46 PM
Excuse galore.

If someone really wants to stay/be fit, he will, it's only a matter of excersises and a healthy diet, of course some will find it harder to achieve and only this is where genetics come in. 90 % of people who are fat sit on their as**s all day, eat tons of chocolate every day and cry how genetics ruins their life.

you've done clinical trials?

90's Clay
06-25-2012, 05:24 PM
Aye.. What a superficial society we have become. ROFL. Body types, metabolism, BMI (which is a crock anyways since it doesn't take into account Bone Density etc) all vary per individual.

Really it comes to down to what type of food you are putting in your body. As we age, some become more intolerant of certain foods.

nereis
06-25-2012, 06:32 PM
Ok, let's just put down the conversation about the significance of genetic predisposition towards getting fat here and focus on the real issue.

If you're a professional athlete and you arrive at the event overweight it is ****ing unprofessional. It is your job to ensure that you perform the best you can. People have invested their trust and money into your career.

It is exactly like the lawyer, doctor or banker who arrives to the big event having done no due diligence and without any notes on the key issues that need to be addressed with the client.

Bjorn99
06-25-2012, 07:54 PM
Its all hormonal/Kreb Cycle. The only reason no pill comes out to treat obesity is because it would mean, solving the hormonal/Kreb Cycle dilemma, and no one would get sick and die. Bad for business.

Leelord337
06-25-2012, 08:06 PM
Its all hormonal/Kreb Cycle. The only reason no pill comes out to treat obesity is because it would mean, solving the hormonal/Kreb Cycle dilemma, and no one would get sick and die. Bad for business.

I don't know if thats true. the Krebs cycle is the process of turning fat into energy and that comes from exercise and reducing fat intake.

People in Jessica Alba's family on both sides struggle with obesity and she said she has to work extra hard to stay fit..and she does, so although I think that it is easier for some to keep weight off due to no fat gene present, i believe hard work, diet and exercise is the number one contributor to get skinny.

Rickenbacker4003
06-25-2012, 08:09 PM
Maybe Oudin believes in the myth that the bigger you are the harder you will hit the ball.

Ripster
06-25-2012, 09:14 PM
Maybe Oudin believes in the myth that the bigger you are the harder you will hit the ball.

Actually some of the women have followed that idea. Bartoli's Dad says he feeds her cheeseburgers and beer to help her power game.

ThePro101
06-25-2012, 09:28 PM
Perhaps I've missed it, but are there no pictures in the thread for comparison purposes?

Leelord337
06-25-2012, 09:43 PM
I know ana lena groenefeld gained her 30lbs after her coach started dating her and then broke up w/her. she went into hiding for a year and left the WTA and came back 30lbs heavier. relationships can suck!

Faster
06-26-2012, 02:49 AM
Aye.. What a superficial society we have become. ROFL. Body types, metabolism, BMI (which is a crock anyways since it doesn't take into account Bone Density etc) all vary per individual.

Really it comes to down to what type of food you are putting in your body. As we age, some become more intolerant of certain foods.
BMI is a crock because it doesn't make a difference between fat weight and muscle weight.
Differences in skeleton weight are relatively small (couple of kgs) a do not sky-rocket your BMI.

jmverdugo
06-26-2012, 05:57 AM
while I agree that the been fat is more about what you eat than anything, I think it is also true than some people are thicker and heavier than others just because that is the way they are. These people have a tendency to look fat-er than they really are. Odin is a really good case - Cibulkova too, maybe she is jut 2 pounds overweight (just to say a number), but she is short and wide by nature so of curse it is going to be more visible than if Hantuchova would gain those 2 pounds.

On the other hand it is also worth to point out that overweight is not the only way to "struggle" with weight, what about the rather large amount of tennis players (specially females) that are way to skinny to be a professional elite athlete? is it "normal" on their case or there is something else going on? I am sure that some of the would definitely benefit of more muscle mass and additional weight.

jesenk
06-26-2012, 09:53 AM
Astonished at the state of Falconi (among others). Some of these girls must just eat cream cakes all day in between training.

sureshs
06-26-2012, 10:12 AM
Maybe Oudin believes in the myth that the bigger you are the harder you will hit the ball.

And her myth has turned out to be correct, otherwise you would not be mentioning her.

sureshs
06-26-2012, 10:14 AM
Its all hormonal/Kreb Cycle. The only reason no pill comes out to treat obesity is because it would mean, solving the hormonal/Kreb Cycle dilemma, and no one would get sick and die. Bad for business.

Isn't Kreb's cycle the mitochondrial process of cellular respiration nowadays known as the Citric Acid cycle?

Sorry, read this in my son's biology book, and was dying to mention it somewhere :-)

TMF
06-26-2012, 10:33 AM
what a dumb excuse, you could have the best genetics in your family when it comes to weight but if you eat a lot you'll get fat

That's true. If a you have an eating disorder and don't take care of your body, you'll be out of shape. Serena once said she was out of shape and had to watch out for what she eat.

sureshs
06-26-2012, 10:36 AM
Serena once said she was out of shape and had to watch out for what she eat.

REALLY???????????????

zcarzach
06-26-2012, 10:41 AM
Pros are people too, and many people struggle with their weight. It sucks for them, but is all too common. Sure, they probably eat better and work out more than any of us, but some people just have bodies that like to hold on to fat. Note that I'm not defending the 300 pound woman who eats McDonalds, guzzles a Diet Coke and complains that she is fat. These are people who actually try to maintain a healthy weight, which doesn't always mean skinny.

/I sound fat
//I am not.
///Willfully fat people should be burned to generate energy for the rest of us.

SLD76
06-26-2012, 11:10 AM
Duh!!!

Thats what I said!

You may be trollish when it comes to the WS and Federer, but you are pretty sensible guy on most things.

People who think genetics dont play a part in ones weight are foolish.


differeing rates of metabolism, ability to retain muscle mass etc are all factors for people when it comes to weight. these are all determined by genetics.

Kenny022593
06-26-2012, 06:58 PM
I'm confused....you say:

1. Weight gain and loss has nothing to do with genetics
2. The genetics only play a roll in body

Which one is correct? Obviously #1 is not if #2 is. And "role" is the correct word where you used "roll."

Do some research about weight and you'll see genetics DOES have a role in many things including body type and weight. Obviously we're given a certain mold based on our genetic code which will ultimately be tweaked by our daily actions. Those actions include how many calories we eat and how many we expend. What type of foods we eat affects eating habits as some foods burn VERY quickly (say sugar) which we can become hungry faster. Slow-burn fuels keep us full longer and often keep us from eating excessive calories.

You should learn the basics before you comment. GI index does not come into play unless you eat carbs by themselves, which most people don't. Being full and being hungry is all psychological. If you don't have the will power to stop eating once you have hit your calorie limit, then that is on you.

Genetics play a 'role,' I am sorry, in body composition, as in where the fat is stored on a persons body. I could have the same stats as you, say... 5' 10'' 170lbs and 12% body fat and we could both look completely different. Losing weight has nothing to do with genetics because if you are eating under you caloric maintenance at a healthy level, you will lose weight. If you eat above it you will gain weight. It is as simple as that.

Bjorn99
06-26-2012, 07:36 PM
Isn't Kreb's cycle the mitochondrial process of cellular respiration nowadays known as the Citric Acid cycle?

Sorry, read this in my son's biology book, and was dying to mention it somewhere :-)==

No, its much much more than that. No one has explained it, well, at all. Anywhere on the internet.

Suffice to say, I have created a formulation that fends off the fat, that everyone except it appears surfers, skateboarders, boxers and some tennis players avoid.

Problem is, it seems to correct all terminal disease, so I doubt it ever reaches the marketplace. Anything too good. ........................

Andres
06-26-2012, 08:00 PM
Hahahahaha :lol: