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Cesc Fabregas
05-27-2012, 10:40 AM
Worst top 10 player ever?

BeHappy
05-27-2012, 10:42 AM
Definitely not. Unbelievably talented.

Worst top 5 player ever in my opinion is Tommy Robredo.

kishnabe
05-27-2012, 11:27 AM
I have to agree....he ruined Djokovic Nadal rg 2010 Semi!

The Bawss
05-27-2012, 11:36 AM
Not even close. Mardy Fish is a prime example of a "top10" player who never had any business even being close.

TTMR
05-27-2012, 11:40 AM
Melzer is one of the most interesting players on tour. Left-hander, uses bizarre but very effective two-handed drop shot, slices on both sides, fast but can jack it up, too. I would much rather have more Jurgen Melzers and fewer 6'5+ ball bashers. Of course, on TW, the sole measure of talent and tennis-worthiness is power.

SStrikerR
05-27-2012, 12:26 PM
Not even close. Mardy Fish is a prime example of a "top10" player who never had any business even being close.

A top 10 player is a guy who can consistently get better results than all but 9 (or less) guys on the tour. Independent of whether you think they're talented enough or not. Last year, Mardy played well enough, enough of the time to have a top 10 year end ranking. Ergo, a top 10 player. If his lack of results this year drops him to the top 20 by the end of the season, then he will be a top 20 player. But that doesn't change the fact that for one season, his results were good enough for a higher rank.

The strength of the top 10 may vary from year to year, but the criteria doesn't change. If a player is good enough to have that spot at the end of a year, then they earned it. Results are what count.


However, my criteria is by year end ranking. Because players have ups and downs throughout the course of the season, I figure that it should all more or less balance out by the end of the season, which makes it the greatest indicator of performance throughout the year. A guy who ascends to #10 for a few weeks then drops out is not a top 10 player, because they couldn't sustain it.

Mainad
05-27-2012, 12:29 PM
Worst top 5 player ever in my opinion is Tommy Robredo.

Speaking of Robredo...what's happening with him? He seems to have been off the tour for ages, like Soderling.

I always think Tipsarevic looks a bit out of place in the top 10 with just 2 titles to his name (both 250s), both won last year.

BeHappy
05-27-2012, 12:30 PM
Melzer is one of the most interesting players on tour. Left-hander, uses bizarre but very effective two-handed drop shot, slices on both sides, fast but can jack it up, too. I would much rather have more Jurgen Melzers and fewer 6'5+ ball bashers. Of course, on TW, the sole measure of talent and tennis-worthiness is power.

Alawys thought he was a poor mans Jimmy Connors. Beautiful clean backhand. Great volleys. Just unfortunate to be born in the era of slow courts.

above bored
05-27-2012, 12:45 PM
I see someone just started watching tennis a few years ago. Jurgen Melzer is a decent player. Tennis is littered with far worse former top 10 players than Melzer. Brad Gilbert for starters.

BeHappy
05-27-2012, 12:46 PM
I see someone just started watching tennis a few years ago. Jurgen Melzer is a decent player. Tennis is littered with far worse former top 10 players than Melzer. Brad Gilbert for starters.

Brad Gilbert had a big forehand and moved well. Was Niemenan ever a top ten player?

above bored
05-27-2012, 12:52 PM
Brad Gilbert had a big forehand and moved well. Was Niemenan ever a top ten player?
Brad Gilbert was a hacker/pusher and he did not have a big forehand or movement to write home about. He's even been described as a pusher by his peers, such as McEnroe.

ditli04
05-27-2012, 01:25 PM
Worst top 10 player ever?

Hopefully, your decision isn't based on his performance today. He has got problem with his hips and two days ago he wasn't sure if he should retire. Furthermore I think he didn't train for at least 2 weeks.

When he is fit and has a good day, he can beat nearly everyone (except the top 3 if they don't have extrem bad day, and as history has shown, they had their bad days!)

BeHappy
05-27-2012, 01:27 PM
Brad Gilbert was a hacker/pusher and he did not have a big forehand or movement to write home about. He's even been described as a pusher by his peers, such as McEnroe.

I can show you video's on youtube of him hitting big forehands. He moved very well, hence his success. He was very like Murray actually, except Murray's backhand is his big shot and with Gilbert it was the forehand.

kiki
05-27-2012, 01:53 PM
After Muster, only he and Koubek have made some impact in the game, talking about Austria´s pro tennis players...

above bored
05-27-2012, 02:40 PM
I can show you video's on youtube of him hitting big forehands. He moved very well, hence his success. He was very like Murray actually, except Murray's backhand is his big shot and with Gilbert it was the forehand.
No it wasn't.

Tony48
05-27-2012, 03:19 PM
Can't believe Novak lost to this clown 2 years ago.

cluckcluck
05-27-2012, 03:21 PM
Jurgen is probably one of the most underrated players we've seen in recent years, yeah he's not a consistent winner; but when he's on he's a beast.
Mardy Fish is has no business being in the top 10 mix.

BeHappy
05-27-2012, 03:56 PM
No it wasn't.

Here's his movement, forehand and talent in one point:
http://youtu.be/EurCVptdBWI?t=25m30s

You don't seriously think he got to 4 in the world without movement, a weapon and talent do you?

t135
05-27-2012, 07:43 PM
Dang, Mardy Fish wins/plays his way into the top 10 and folks say he doesn't deserve it. Tough crowd on the Internet!

I enjoy watching Melzer when he's playing well. I swear he looks like he's related to Muster. Not talent wise but facial features.

cluckcluck
05-27-2012, 07:52 PM
Dang, Mardy Fish wins/plays his way into the top 10 and folks say he doesn't deserve it. Tough crowd on the Internet!

That's because Fish is whiny and has very little class.

t135
05-27-2012, 08:51 PM
That's because Fish is whiny and has very little class.

I had not noticed that. I guess this comes out in interviews. I don't watch or read them. I do like his game though. Fun to watch when he's playing well. Very American all court style.

above bored
05-27-2012, 09:31 PM
Here's his movement, forehand and talent in one point:
http://youtu.be/EurCVptdBWI?t=25m30s

You don't seriously think he got to 4 in the world without movement, a weapon and talent do you?
Every single pro has talent and ability, otherwise they wouldn't be pros. That especially applies to pros who make the top 10 and top 5. This thread is about the worst of them.

Secondly, all pros and quite a few amateurs will have had moments when they played good points, so showing me a half-decent point from Gilbert does not prove he had exceptional skills in the areas you state comparative to other pros who were and are known for those skills and demonstrate them habitually. People should watch the rest of the points in that match and others to get a better idea of Gilbert's game. His forehand looks especially bad for someone who ranked so high. Even Fish has a better forehand than Gilbert, despite the criticism he gets for it.

Gilbert was known as a spoiler, a disrupter of rhythm. Even towards the beginning of the clip you posted they mention his slow ball and his strength as breaking his opponent's rhythm. Even the person who wrote his wikipedia entry understands his game.

http://youtu.be/EurCVptdBWI?t=2m28s

Unlike many other professional players of his era, Gilbert did not have a powerful serve, a dangerous forehand or backhand, a flashy volley, or a lightning smash. His best asset was his ability to keep the ball in play. He hit the ball most often at a slow but accurate pace and was sometimes called a pusher. In his 2002 autobiography John McEnroe called Gilbert a pusher and claimed that Gilbert had the ability to bring talented players down to his type of game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Gilbert

BeHappy
05-28-2012, 06:30 AM
Every single pro has talent and ability, otherwise they wouldn't be pros. That especially applies to pros who make the top 10 and top 5. This thread is about the worst of them.

Secondly, all pros and quite a few amateurs will have had moments when they played good points, so showing me a half-decent point from Gilbert does not prove he had exceptional skills in the areas you state comparative to other pros who were and are known for those skills and demonstrate them habitually. People should watch the rest of the points in that match and others to get a better idea of Gilbert's game. His forehand looks especially bad for someone who ranked so high. Even Fish has a better forehand than Gilbert, despite the criticism he gets for it.

Gilbert was known as a spoiler, a disrupter of rhythm. Even towards the beginning of the clip you posted they mention his slow ball and his strength as breaking his opponent's rhythm. Even the person who wrote his wikipedia entry understands his game.

http://youtu.be/EurCVptdBWI?t=2m28s

Yeah they said the same thing about Ivan Lendl. Not to mention "they" said Hewitt's backhand was the biggest weapon in the world back in 2002. That Davydenko is weak and just gets everythin back.

Clearly "they" don't know what they're talking about.

And Wikipedia "playing style" entries? They're absolutely hilarious. We've had threads about them before.

above bored
06-01-2012, 10:42 PM
Yeah they said the same thing about Ivan Lendl. Not to mention "they" said Hewitt's backhand was the biggest weapon in the world back in 2002. That Davydenko is weak and just gets everythin back.

Clearly "they" don't know what they're talking about.

And Wikipedia "playing style" entries? They're absolutely hilarious. We've had threads about them before.
No, you don't know what you're talking about.

BeHappy
06-01-2012, 10:45 PM
No, you don't know what you're talking about.

If you can get to 4 in the world with no movement, weapons, touch or talent, then why don't you do it?

egn
06-01-2012, 11:36 PM
Not even close. Mardy Fish is a prime example of a "top10" player who never had any business even being close.

Sorry Melzer and Tipsy are both worse than Fish in my eyes. Though they are all definitely some of the worst, along with Teltscher, Gilbert, Robredo, Clement (although a grand slam finalist is probably one of the worst men to make one of those, though what is sad Clement looked like he was going to hit some sort of prime I remember thinking he could become a solid guy, but he amounted to nothing after that what is now looking to be a fluke run.)

However it's crazy to think that Robredo, Fish, Tipsy and crew can spend almost a year and a half in the top 10 but somehow Grosjean struggled to stay there. It's easy to stay at the lower ends if you do well in the little tournaments and Grosjean just couldn't do that. Also there wasn't enough grass tournaments for him :(

above bored
06-01-2012, 11:46 PM
If you can get to 4 in the world with no movement, weapons, touch or talent, then why don't you do it?
That's your assertion, not mine.