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View Full Version : who is struggling more, Wozniacki or McIlroy?


christo
06-02-2012, 11:21 PM
Imploding together, before our eyes, no more happy go lucky Caroline. Now it's all the official's fault, such a slippery slope when you lose your nerve. Still, she is very young but those dreamy days when she was numero uno seem like eons ago. As for Rory? He'll be back on top soon enough LOL:shock:

JorgeLobo
06-03-2012, 05:47 AM
Wozniacki sure looked bad at the French. Dropped the 1st set 6-0 and whinnh about one close call in her elimination. Think she's one of the many mediocre but steady players (ala Jankovic and Ivanoivic) who can point up in 2nd tier tournaments but get blown off the courts when Williams show up. Too bad for Wozniaki, looks like she's fading when Serena's age and lack of commitment are trumping her skills.

TTMR
06-03-2012, 06:49 AM
McIlroy has 25-30 years to straighten things out. Can't say the same for Wozniacki.

Don Felder
06-03-2012, 08:04 AM
A couple years ago, when she was #1 and the buzz was starting to build about her inability to win slams, I predicted a Safina-like career trajectory for her. The pressure of failing to live up to expectations would derail her in the biggest way. She's dropped from #1 to #9, and her decline is only going to accelerate.

She doesn't have the game, and now she probably won't have the mental tools to make the most of her limited game like she once did.

Frankly, I'll be shocked if she's even around in another 2 years.

Mike Bulgakov
06-03-2012, 08:23 AM
Wozniacki is a great fighter and competitor. Her big problem is that her serve and forehand are not weapons, which makes it difficult for her to beat top players when they are in form. McIlroy has little to worry about.

Rjtennis
06-03-2012, 06:16 PM
Woz just doesnt have the game or talent to be at the very top. Her power is limited and for being a grinder she isnt the fastest out there. I think her instinct for being in the right place makes her look much faster than she is. Woz is a great player, she just isnt top 5 talent wise.

1970CRBase
06-03-2012, 06:18 PM
In a shallow era caused by a broken generation, she was in the right place at the right time. That's all.

El Diablo
08-12-2012, 03:28 PM
"As for Rory, He'll be back on top soon enough LOL" the OP wrote, Rory now poised to win the PGA. How do you conclude that someone as young and talented as Rory is done??? Amazing!

BigServer1
08-12-2012, 03:34 PM
Rory is dominating the PGA field right now.

He's about to win his second major at a younger age than Tiger was when he won his second.

I guess my vote goes to Woz.

TheF1Bob
08-12-2012, 03:34 PM
Rory's too good for Wozniacki.

Fact.

Juan Ma Del Pony
08-12-2012, 05:07 PM
Lol...Rory just won his 2nd Major, and Woz is stuck on zero.

forzamilan90
08-12-2012, 05:10 PM
yeah after what Rory did today, kinda self explanatory who is struggling more

roundiesee
08-12-2012, 05:35 PM
Yes, Rory's back at number one after that splendid PGA win, congrats! :)

christo
08-12-2012, 06:37 PM
"As for Rory, He'll be back on top soon enough LOL" the OP wrote, Rory now poised to win the PGA. How do you conclude that someone as young and talented as Rory is done??? Amazing!
Maybe I should have said Woznicki would be on top, the comment had little to with golf and more to do with their relationship, comprende ?:)

kishnabe
08-12-2012, 06:46 PM
The proper way of becoming World Number one by winning a major....congratz Rory!

NadalAgassi
08-12-2012, 07:36 PM
Rory is back where he belongs, at #1. Soon Caroline will be back where she belongs too, outside the top 10. As for their relationship I doubt it will last much longer. I am not sure if anything can save Caroline at this point but clearly being with Rory hasnt helped her career.

cc0509
08-12-2012, 07:39 PM
Rory is back where he belongs, at #1. Soon Caroline will be back where she belongs too, outside the top 10. As for their relationship I doubt it will last much longer. I am not sure if anything can save Caroline at this point but clearly being with Rory hasnt helped her career.

Are you kidding, he follows Caroline around the world like a smitten puppy dog.
You never know what will happen but it looks pretty serious to me.

TheF1Bob
08-12-2012, 07:43 PM
The proper way of becoming World Number one by winning a major....congratz Rory!

I like that. :)

NadalAgassi
08-12-2012, 07:48 PM
Are you kidding, he follows Caroline around the world like a smitten puppy dog.
You never know what will happen but it looks pretty serious to me.

He may be enamored with her but I doubt she will be loving the idea of his career flourishing while hers goes down the tubes, and being known just as Rory's girlfriend and the former joke #1. Granted I think her career peak is already long past no matter what she does, but I could see her growing frusterated enough to wonder if her relationship with him and the focus on it is the problem.

cc0509
08-12-2012, 08:00 PM
He may be enamored with her but I doubt she will be loving the idea of his career flourishing while hers goes down the tubes, and being known just as Rory's girlfriend and the former joke #1. Granted I think her career peak is already long past no matter what she does, but I could see her growing frusterated enough to wonder if her relationship with him and the focus on it is the problem.

Not so sure about that. Wozniacki recently said the following:

"I donít want to keep playing forever. I want to play for a couple of years. I want a normal career. I will give it my all then that will be that.Ē


http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/tennis/caroline-wozniacki-says-rory-mcilroy-907515

She knows her limitations. She will try her best and see what happens. She has accomplished a lot for a 22 year old. She could retire tomorrow and be set for life.

tank_job
08-13-2012, 01:58 AM
lol at those saying Wozniacki doesn't deserve Rory.

In the end, looks >>>>> accomplishments, and Wozniacki could be dating a 6ft 8in NFL player with a 50 inch vertical jump, 400kg squat, 20inch guns...etc... Not some golfer weed who probably couldn't bench 70kg.

Rory doesn't deserve Wozniacki.

THUNDERVOLLEY
08-13-2012, 11:04 AM
Not so sure about that. Wozniacki recently said the following:

"I donít want to keep playing forever. I want to play for a couple of years. I want a normal career. I will give it my all then that will be that.Ē


http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/tennis/caroline-wozniacki-says-rory-mcilroy-907515

She knows her limitations. She will try her best and see what happens. She has accomplished a lot for a 22 year old. She could retire tomorrow and be set for life.

It is not about some quest for money; there are many professions which can lead to wealth. Allegedly, she entered the sport to be a champion (as in majors champion), but she's an utter failure at it at this point in time, and with the above quote, she's already seeding the conversation toward expecting an early retirement...only it will be due her failure to live up to the hype she seemed to enjoy so much.

OKUSA
08-13-2012, 11:59 AM
Wozniacki is a lot more accomplished than most pro player's wives. How about Roger Federer, whose wife was barely a name in women's tennis, yet is married to arguably the best tennis player of all-time?

I don't see Caroline's career ending having any impact on the relationship, just like the Federer's

SLD76
08-13-2012, 12:33 PM
He may be enamored with her but I doubt she will be loving the idea of his career flourishing while hers goes down the tubes, and being known just as Rory's girlfriend and the former joke #1. Granted I think her career peak is already long past no matter what she does, but I could see her growing frusterated enough to wonder if her relationship with him and the focus on it is the problem.

her lack of success doesnt seem to have hindered their relationship, he always looks gutted for her when she has a tough loss at a big tournament.

cc0509
08-13-2012, 08:55 PM
It is not about some quest for money; there are many professions which can lead to wealth. Allegedly, she entered the sport to be a champion (as in majors champion), but she's an utter failure at it at this point in time, and with the above quote, she's already seeding the conversation toward expecting an early retirement...only it will be due her failure to live up to the hype she seemed to enjoy so much.

She may be a failure at professional tennis in terms of winning a slam that is true, but she is no failure for winning 19 or 20 singles titles at her age. You have many players both in men's and women's tennis who play for 15 years and they don't acquire 19-20 titles, not even close. Also she was number one for quite a while. Not her fault the WTA rankings work the way they do. She is no failure, not even close. There is a long list of male players on tour who I would consider failures way before Caroline Wozniacki. You have a hate on for her, no doubt. She is trying her best and she should milk it for all it is worth and get as many endorsements as she can while she is at or near the top. It is not her fault that most of the other women on tour are dogs and can't get the endorsement deals she can.

cc0509
08-13-2012, 08:57 PM
Wozniacki is a lot more accomplished than most pro player's wives. How about Roger Federer, whose wife was barely a name in women's tennis, yet is married to arguably the best tennis player of all-time?

I don't see Caroline's career ending having any impact on the relationship, just like the Federer's

Right on. She has accomplished a lot for a 22 year old and she does not have to depend on anybody, including Rory McIlroy for anything in life. She is as far from a failure as a person can be.

smoledman
08-13-2012, 09:01 PM
It's always weird when a 22yo starts talking retirement.

cc0509
08-13-2012, 09:14 PM
It's always weird when a 22yo starts talking retirement.

She is not talking retirement, she is just saying she does not want to play her whole life on tour. There are other things she wants to do and with the money she has made she will always have many options in life.

Magnetite
08-14-2012, 09:28 AM
They're both ugly.

smoledman
08-14-2012, 09:29 AM
One is a multiple major champion and world #1 and the other isn't.

gennosuke
08-14-2012, 09:37 AM
Wozniacki sure looked bad at the French. Dropped the 1st set 6-0 and whinnh about one close call in her elimination. Think she's one of the many mediocre but steady players (ala Jankovic and Ivanoivic) who can point up in 2nd tier tournaments but get blown off the courts when Williams show up. Too bad for Wozniaki, looks like she's fading when Serena's age and lack of commitment are trumping her skills.

:lol: :lol:

Are all Willytards so unintelligent?

Also, pretty sure the French Open isn't a second tier tournament. If it was, then shame on Venus for not even being able to win it once. :lol:

What a horrible, horrible post.

Also, Venus got embarrassed by RADWANSKA of all people this year. :lol:

mmk
08-14-2012, 09:45 AM
Right on. She has accomplished a lot for a 22 year old and she does not have to depend on anybody, including Rory McIlroy for anything in life. She is as far from a failure as a person can be.

Exactly. Caroline and my youngest daughter were born on the same day, and while my daughter is very accomplished (two sport captain at MIT, great career ahead), she would trade places in a heartbeat.

SLD76
08-14-2012, 09:48 AM
Exactly. Caroline and my youngest daughter were born on the same day, and while my daughter is very accomplished (two sport captain at MIT, great career ahead), she would trade places in a heartbeat.

kudos to your daughter. Sigh...many is the day that I wish I had more of a head for math.

sunof tennis
08-14-2012, 10:16 AM
Exactly. Caroline and my youngest daughter were born on the same day, and while my daughter is very accomplished (two sport captain at MIT, great career ahead), she would trade places in a heartbeat.

As previous poster said, major kudos to your daughter.
With respect to the orginal question, I think Sunday's events prety much answered it.

THUNDERVOLLEY
08-14-2012, 08:45 PM
She may be a failure at professional tennis in terms of winning a slam that is true, but she is no failure for winning 19 or 20 singles titles at her age. You have many players both in men's and women's tennis who play for 15 years and they don't acquire 19-20 titles, not even close. Also she was number one for quite a while. Not her fault the WTA rankings work the way they do. She is no failure, not even close. There is a long list of male players on tour who I would consider failures way before Caroline Wozniacki.

At this point, she is a faiure as she is in a sport where winning majors is the goal (and a Grand Slam if you're going for the zenith of the sport), and she has failed to do anything close to it. Her career is not some lazy day at the park courts--she--like all players have that one focus, and she's screwed that up.

You have a hate on for her, no doubt.

Nonsense. You seem to be one of these people who are so hyper-defensive that you call any justified criticism of Wozniacki "hate." There is a difference. Meanwhile, I have posted--several times around this board--about what she should do to change her game and career around (fire big daddy, learn the all-court game, seek a top ex-pro as a coach, etc.). Yep, that soulds like hate...not.

The only hate I see on this board is overwhelmingly aimed at Serena and Nadal, and i'm sure one or more of their ilk will arrive soon to make a direct or indirect reply to that fact.

She is trying her best and she should milk it for all it is worth

Again, you focus on money, as though earning high income is some rare thing. Your going on and on about that as a prime motive only makes you appear to suggest she's shallow.

You are not helping her cause.


It is not her fault that most of the other women on tour are dogs and can't get the endorsement deals she can.

Now we're getting down to it: you are projecting your own ideas about Wozniacki into this thread (and an obession with money as though that is some mountain to climb), which have little to do with this discussion, or the state of affairs in the media. Wozniaki is no model, actress, or anything close to it, she's just another tennis player, and is not even a fixture in popular culture, where most would know her by the mere mention of her name if she was what you are suggesting.

Few tennis players--male and female--have ever broken the bonds of the sport to be recognized on the global level as the aforementioned fixture in popular culture. You cannot begin to prove Wozniacki is among that group.

That said, all of your excuses do not erase the fact she's screwing her career up by not doing what it takes.

cc0509
08-14-2012, 09:39 PM
At this point, she is a faiure as she is in a sport where winning majors is the goal (and a Grand Slam if you're going for the zenith of the sport), and she has failed to do anything close to it. Her career is not some lazy day at the park courts--she--like all players have that one focus, and she's screwed that up.



Nonsense. You seem to be one of these people who are so hyper-defensive that you call any justified criticism of Wozniacki "hate." There is a difference. Meanwhile, I have posted--several times around this board--about what she should do to change her game and career around (fire big daddy, learn the all-court game, seek a top ex-pro as a coach, etc.). Yep, that soulds like hate...not.

The only hate I see on this board is overwhelmingly aimed at Serena and Nadal, and i'm sure one or more of their ilk will arrive soon to make a direct or indirect reply to that fact.



Again, you focus on money, as though earning high income is some rare thing. Your going on and on about that as a prime motive only makes you appear to suggest she's shallow.

You are not helping her cause.




Now we're getting down to it: you are projecting your own ideas about Wozniacki into this thread (and an obession with money as though that is some mountain to climb), which have little to do with this discussion, or the state of affairs in the media. Wozniaki is no model, actress, or anything close to it, she's just another tennis player, and is not even a fixture in popular culture, where most would know her by the mere mention of her name if she was what you are suggesting.

Few tennis players--male and female--have ever broken the bonds of the sport to be recognized on the global level as the aforementioned fixture in popular culture. You cannot begin to prove Wozniacki is among that group.

That said, all of your excuses do not erase the fact she's screwing her career up by not doing what it takes.


I don't have the patience to read all of your mumbo jumbo but I have said that I agree that in pro tennis the goal is to win a slam, but how many players actually achieve that? To call her a failure for not winning a slam if fine but to call her a failure in a broad sense is nonsense. She is 22 years old and has won 20 titles, or close to it. She is one of the highest earners in endorsement deals in women's tennis (below Sharapova, Li Na and Serena.) How many players win 20 titles in their entire careers? Do some research, not many.
You can go ahead and criticize her and call her a failure as you sweep floors in a cafeteria or whatever it is that you do, but, the reality is she is far from a failure in tennis career.

cc0509
08-14-2012, 09:44 PM
Exactly. Caroline and my youngest daughter were born on the same day, and while my daughter is very accomplished (two sport captain at MIT, great career ahead), she would trade places in a heartbeat.

It is absolutely asinine for anybody to call a 22 year old who has won 20 career titles and is the fourth highest endorsement earner in women's tennis today a failure. You gotta just laugh at these people who are probably shut-ins with no job and decent source of income. Those are the only kind of people who would criticize what Caroline has accomplished at a young age, and I say that as somebody who thinks that the most successful players are multiple slam winners and that players who don't win slams are forgotten for the most part by tennis historians.

hcb0804
08-14-2012, 09:52 PM
Wozniacki will NEVER win a major. Write it down. Remember where you heard it first.

smoledman
08-14-2012, 10:28 PM
Wozniacki will NEVER win a major. Write it down. Remember where you heard it first.

Wozniacki has earned more money then you will earn in 10 lifetimes. Ponder that.

SLD76
08-14-2012, 11:12 PM
It is absolutely asinine for anybody to call a 22 year old who has won 20 career titles and is the fourth highest endorsement earner in women's tennis today a failure. You gotta just laugh at these people who are probably shut-ins with no job and decent source of income. Those are the only kind of people who would criticize what Caroline has accomplished at a young age, and I say that as somebody who thinks that the most successful players are multiple slam winners and that players who don't win slams are forgotten for the most part by tennis historians.

internet tuff guys.

abmk
08-14-2012, 11:13 PM
It is absolutely asinine for anybody to call a 22 year old who has won 20 career titles and is the fourth highest endorsement earner in women's tennis today a failure. You gotta just laugh at these people who are probably shut-ins with no job and decent source of income. Those are the only kind of people who would criticize what Caroline has accomplished at a young age, and I say that as somebody who thinks that the most successful players are multiple slam winners and that players who don't win slams are forgotten for the most part by tennis historians.

internet tuff guys.

^^

precisely ..... :)

dirtballer
08-15-2012, 06:06 AM
I still say Caroline's switch to Yonex was a mistake. She's had problems ever since she made the switch. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

THUNDERVOLLEY
08-15-2012, 06:12 AM
I You gotta just laugh at these people who are probably shut-ins with no job and decent source of income

It is your obsession with easily earned money which proves you have no income of note--typical of those longing for something they do not have.

Too easy.

I say that as somebody who thinks that the most successful players are multiple slam winners and that players who don't win slams are forgotten for the most part by tennis historians.

In admitting that you have just supported the opposite view, thus killing your own argument.

Again, this is too easy.

kme5150
08-15-2012, 06:53 AM
I still say Caroline's switch to Yonex was a mistake. She's had problems ever since she made the switch. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I agree. This happens way too often. Why anybody changes racquets when they are on the top baffles me. Especially one that you can't just paint job.

cc0509
08-15-2012, 08:19 PM
It is your obsession with easily earned money which proves you have no income of note--typical of those longing for something they do not have.



You would be incorrect about that. I will compare professions and salary with you any day. It is people like YOU who constantly criticize successful people that sets off a huge red flag about your own success in life. No doubt about that. All you do on here is try and insult the people most successful(in edorsements) in the game--ie. Federer, Sharapova, Wozniacki, etc. You think these multi-billion dollar companies would be endorsing a player who does not net them a full return and then some? Businesses do not throw money at losers.

furryballs
08-15-2012, 08:30 PM
who cares really

THUNDERVOLLEY
08-16-2012, 07:03 AM
You would be incorrect about that.

No, I am quite correct, as you are like the people who stare wide-eyed at lottery tickets, and watch celebrity news, dreaming of money as though it is some difficult dream to reach, when it is not. You exposed yourself by repeatedly speaking of Wozniacki essentially performing a money grab, rather than doing her job. To you--and your oft-noted motive--she has to claw at coin as fast as she can, yet fail at her job. Your obsession with chump change prevents you from seeing how she is indeed a failure.

Moreover, as noted days ago, Wozniaki is no model, actress, or anything close to it, she's just another tennis player, and is not even a fixture in popular culture, where most would know her by the mere mention of her name if she was what you are suggesting.

Few tennis players--male and female--have ever broken the bonds of the sport to be recognized on the global level as the aforementioned fixture in popular culture, or a top earner in the ancillary market among any madia figures. You cannot begin to prove Wozniacki is among that group, otherwise you would have. You wishing that is the case does not make it the case.

To reiterate, all of your thin excuses do not erase the fact she's screwing her career up by not doing what it takes.

sunof tennis
08-16-2012, 08:00 AM
No, I am quite correct, as you are like the people who stare wide-eyed at lottery tickets, and watch celebrity news, dreaming of money as though it is some difficult dream to reach, when it is not. You exposed yourself by repeatedly speaking of Wozniacki essentially performing a money grab, rather than doing her job. To you--and your oft-noted motive--she has to claw at coin as fast as she can, yet fail at her job. Your obsession with chump change prevents you from seeing how she is indeed a failure.

Moreover, as noted days ago, Wozniaki is no model, actress, or anything close to it, she's just another tennis player, and is not even a fixture in popular culture, where most would know her by the mere mention of her name if she was what you are suggesting.

Few tennis players--male and female--have ever broken the bonds of the sport to be recognized on the global level as the aforementioned fixture in popular culture, or a top earner in the ancillary market among any madia figures. You cannot begin to prove Wozniacki is among that group, otherwise you would have. You wishing that is the case does not make it the case.

To reiterate, all of your thin excuses do not erase the fact she's screwing her career up by not doing what it takes.

With all due respect (by the way that means I have no respect for your comments) your comment that Wozniacki is just another tennis player is ludicrous. She has been a top ten player player for several years!. How many people can say they are one of the best 10 people at doing something than millions of other people do? Yes, she may never win a major, but that doesn't make her a faulure at tennis or more importantly at life. Comments like yours are why the internet is such a barren wasteland of false arguments and pseudo-intellectualism.

THUNDERVOLLEY
08-16-2012, 12:07 PM
She has been a top ten player player for several years!

...and? The number one goal of pro players is something she fails to do at every turn.

How many people can say they are one of the best 10 people at doing something than millions of other people do?

Millions? There are not millions of WTA players, nor that many attempting to become pro tennis players, so the analogy is is poor at best.

Wild exaggeration never supports a position.


Yes, she may never win a major, but that doesn't make her a faulure at tennis or more importantly at life. Comments like yours are why the internet is such a barren wasteland of false arguments and pseudo-intellectualism.

Illogical, and your instant dive into ad hominem BS only proves how you are driven by anything other than rationality.

You--like a few Wozniacki cheerleaders on this board--embrace mediocrity where she's concerned. A so-called top tennis player swimming in the pool of mediocrity does not help the WTA, but hurts it--as in the case of former hollow #1 players Safina and Jankovic who only created a controversy about top players incapable of doing their job--winning majors--a continuing issue. That is not the kind of attention the WTA needs. Now that she's no longer #1, we still see excuses made for someone who cannot get the job done (lets not mention her Olympics performance).

Your platform sells one message: who cares about competitve matches and rivals where all hangs in the balance. Without that, one may as well populate the draws with recrecational park players, as that is about as competitive/interesting as mediocre pro players are.

cc0509
08-16-2012, 06:02 PM
No, I am quite correct, as you are like the people who stare wide-eyed at lottery tickets, and watch celebrity news, dreaming of money as though it is some difficult dream to reach, when it is not. You exposed yourself by repeatedly speaking of Wozniacki essentially performing a money grab, rather than doing her job. To you--and your oft-noted motive--she has to claw at coin as fast as she can, yet fail at her job. Your obsession with chump change prevents you from seeing how she is indeed a failure.

Moreover, as noted days ago, Wozniaki is no model, actress, or anything close to it, she's just another tennis player, and is not even a fixture in popular culture, where most would know her by the mere mention of her name if she was what you are suggesting.

Few tennis players--male and female--have ever broken the bonds of the sport to be recognized on the global level as the aforementioned fixture in popular culture, or a top earner in the ancillary market among any madia figures. You cannot begin to prove Wozniacki is among that group, otherwise you would have. You wishing that is the case does not make it the case.

To reiterate, all of your thin excuses do not erase the fact she's screwing her career up by not doing what it takes.

Seriously, you are a real pill. Think what you want about Wozniacki, it does not matter to me but, although she will probably never win any slams which is obviously the goal of any elite tennis player, she is far from a failure with her 19 or 20 tournament wins and the fact that she is the fourth highest paid female tennis player currently in endorsements at age 22. If you think that is a failure in the broad scheme of things, you have big problems. What do I have to prove to you? She is the fourth highest paid female in tennis in endorsement deals. Is that not proof enough?

You are obsessed with nice looking female players who earn big bucks in endorsement fees. What is your problem? You obviously have one. You only like ugly looking tennis players huh? ;)

THUNDERVOLLEY
08-16-2012, 06:51 PM
she is far from a failure with her 19 or 20 tournament wins

I'll quote someone--namely you--who recently posted:

I say that as somebody who thinks that the most successful players are multiple slam winners and that players who don't win slams are forgotten for the most part by tennis historians.

That--in a nutshell--is the greatest argument for Wozniacki being a failure.

You created the means to dismantle your own argument.

Lovely.

ollinger
09-10-2012, 06:00 AM
McIlroy struggling??? Another strong performance this weekend, wins the BMW Open.

Peters
09-10-2012, 06:43 AM
Yes, it seems Rory has recovered from his slump now.

I've always had a slightly different view of Caro; without ever being blessed with a powerful, dynamic game I think she's actually done really well to win those 20 titles. She had an opportunity in a weak era to maximise her potential, which she grabbed with both hands.

Likewise, her number 1 ranking was down to the dreadfully inconsistent play of her peers over that period. All she ever did was try her best each tournament with a limited game, it seems.

Okay, she got found out in the end, other players around her have improved, Serena's back, etc. But it just goes to show how terrible the tour was when she was number 1 and winning those titles.

Caro herself seems a nice person and just happy to have achieved what she did.

NadalAgassi
09-10-2012, 08:53 AM
Wozniacki's computer year end #1 ranking in 2011 was the most undeserved in history. Kvitova and Wozniacki basically had the same consistency that year (Kvitova actually had a higher winning percentage so Wozniacki was NOT more consistent), and Kvitova was by far the more prolific winner of big tournaments. Not saying Kvitova wasnt inconsistent and herself a poor year end #1 relative to most past, but she was clearly the year end #1 of 2011 regardless of a silly computer. Someone on the WTA forum posted a suggested ranking system where a slamless player such as Hingis in some past years still would have been year end #1 so obviously still credited the tour, and Wozniacki would have been only #3 in 2010 (had she won the WTA Championships that would have bumped her to #1 just over Clijsters and Serena but she didnt) and #5 in 2012, thousands of points behind Kvitova. Anyway Kvitova was basically crowned by all the #1 ranked player of 2011 when she swept the Player of the Year awards from all bodies, with Wozniacki getting nothing, so in the end the computer was irrelevant like it usually is for the WTA these days. Everyone in tennis overruled the computer essentialy.

Still it is not her fault. She capatilized on both the struggling WTA and the badly flawed ranking system. Good for her. Today she is very wealthy and while that isnt the ultimate goal of a tennis player, it isnt a best second option. I think she will be happy settling into her new life as Mrs. Rory, which may or may not include some tennis on the side. Her 18 tournament wins is impressive, and while her 2011 year end #1 does not even exist and is recognized by nobody, her 2010 year end #1 is reasonably justified and worth some credit (even if most still disagree even with that). For a slamless player she has had a pretty good year.

Alchemy-Z
09-10-2012, 08:57 AM
Neither I would take either ones pay check in a new york minute

Peters
09-10-2012, 09:10 AM
Unfortunately NadalAgassi, tennis is an all year round sport and the ranking points have to be balanced beyond the 4 slams. In a period of time when the level of women's tennis was as terrible as it was when Caro was no1, any talk of what's deserved/undeserved becomes rather irrelevant & obtuse.

The ranking system won't change, since there's nothing to fix. All it needs is for the top 10 to perform to any true standard and it sorts itself out easily enough.

A few people on the odd internet forum might talk about it, but it's deliberately structured the way it is and works as it should.

NadalAgassi
09-10-2012, 01:12 PM
Unfortunately NadalAgassi, tennis is an all year round sport and the ranking points have to be balanced beyond the 4 slams. In a period of time when the level of women's tennis was as terrible as it was when Caro was no1, any talk of what's deserved/undeserved becomes rather irrelevant & obtuse.

The ranking system won't change, since there's nothing to fix. All it needs is for the top 10 to perform to any true standard and it sorts itself out easily enough.

A few people on the odd internet forum might talk about it, but it's deliberately structured the way it is and works as it should.

I have already explained this numerous times but Wozniacki was not a completely undeserved #1 in 2011 just because she didnt win a slam. In every respect she was a completely undeserved #1. She was not the most consistent, that is a false myth, there were several women with higher win percentages, even the inconsistent Kvitova had a higher win percentage which shows even Wozniacki's consistency sucked in 2011, in addition to everything else about her record. Her 4 biggest tournament wins were bigger than Wozniacki's biggest one of the year, she won more overall titles, she won them on every surface unlike Wozniacki, and even with her admited inconsistency even her win % beat Wozniacki's which makes a mockery of the idea of "consistent" Wozniacki in 2011. Sharapova outperformed her in both Slams and Premier Mandatories overall. Kvitova won more tournaments, a slam, and bigger tournaments outside the slams (eg- WTA Championships, Paris Indoors, Federation Cup). Azarenka was the truly most consistent one even last year, almost never losing to a weak opponent in any event, a far cry from Wozniacki. From May to the end of the year Wozniacki lost early rounds most tournaments. As for slams, not only did not she not win one, she didnt even reach a final, and had terrible performances at both the Wimbledon and French Open, as well as the WTA Championships being ousted in the RR stage. In every respect her performance sucked and was completely unworthy of year end #1, even amongst the weak WTA of 2011. Kvitova was far and away the real #1 (her winning a slam just one of many reasons, not the sole reason), and for the record Kvitova herself was one of the weaker year end #1s in tennis history last year so no I am not unreasonably buffing her up, just the obvious that she was far and away more worthy than Wozniacki, and Sharapova and possibly Azarenka also deserved to be ranked higher under a more sane ranking system more in like with the 90s version.

The WTA obviously agreed, mocking their own ranking system by naming Kvitova the overwhelming Player of the Year. As I pointed out a fairer and more accurate ranking system presented by a poster on another forum, one which even some past slamless players would have ended years at #1 so obviously credited the overall tour and not just the slams, would have had Wozniacki at only #3 in 2010 and #5 in 2011, where virtually everyone agrees she belonged. You can say there is nothing wrong with the ranking system if you wish, but you are merely spitting in the winds of reality, since people have dissed the WTA ranking system ever since they changed it way back in 2000, and controversies about the rankings have existed since then at various points, long before Wozniacki entered the tour, and long before the WTA reached its all time low of 2009-2011. Meanwhile Wozniacki's computer year end #1 in 2011 is the most dismissed, ridiculed, and disregarded in tennis history, even amongst an unusually poor WTA. Evidenced by the fact not a single faction, not even the WTA who created their own flaw filled ranking system, named her the #1 or Player of the Year for 2011.

If you want to see what a respectable slamless year end #1 (a far too frequent occurence since the new fail of a ranking system of 12 years ago as you will see by the long list but anyway) looks like look at Hingis in 2000, Davenport in 2001, Davenport in 2004 and 2005, Clijsters most of 2003 (just losing it at the end anyway). Even Safina in 2009 (despite losing it at the end), Jankovic in 2008, and Wozniacki herself in 2010 were light years better. This view that some take, that people thrashed Wozniacki being computer year end #1 last year just because she didnt win a slam and no other reason is laughable.