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tank_job
06-06-2012, 10:50 AM
30 years old, as physical a grinding style of play as you can get, a chain smoking habit, and the guy is getting the best results of his career.

Is he some sort of freak, why isn't he declining?

Don Felder
06-06-2012, 10:53 AM
Wow--I didn't realize he was quite 30. I thought he was about 28. He's a model of consistency, that's for sure. Did Ferrer have as much success/play as much tennis in the early part of his career? I don't remember seeing him around THAT much until the last 5 years. Maybe he's benefiting from having a lighter match load in the early part of his career. Or maybe I'm off base on that assumption--can't look up his record right now.

ChipNCharge
06-06-2012, 10:53 AM
30 years old, as physical a grinding style of play as you can get, a chain smoking habit, and the guy is getting the best results of his career.

Is he some sort of freak, why isn't he declining?

Ferrer is a chain smoker?? I wonder how many players on the tour smoke reguarly?

BrooklynNY
06-06-2012, 11:01 AM
Perhaps Yannick Noah could help us with this question?

dominikk1985
06-06-2012, 11:06 AM
It's the smoking.

zcarzach
06-06-2012, 11:06 AM
Perhaps Yannick Noah could help us with this question?

Eees jus' talent, no?

bluetrain4
06-06-2012, 11:10 AM
I think the Ferrer's smoking has been elevated to urban legend status. Yes, I believe he smoked at one point in his career (didn't someone post pictures?). Maybe he even still occasionally has a smoke, I don't know. But, people talk about it as if he has always and still does smoke multiple packs per day. I don't think that's the case. Nonetheless, even if he smokes one cigarette per week, it's SO out of line of what we expect from professional athletes.

I don't know why he hasn't declined. We know he is an animal in the gym and his fitness regimine is outstanding. Other than that, he seems to just be lucky withy serious injuries and he might also be lucky in that his joints are primarily still "good" despite all the grinding tennis. Also, he's small, which sometimes (not always) makes a difference in regards to wear and tear.

He isn't THAT old, but I guess for tennis, at least historically, he is.

Someone had posted a thread the other day about age and "modern sports medicine" (without specificying what he was talking about), and how "modern sports medicine" allows players to stay in the game at a high level longer.

BeHappy
06-06-2012, 11:16 AM
He's a late developer, he hadn't played many matches until he was in his mid twenties because he used to lose all the time.

Most grinders are early developers like Chang, Hewitt, Borg etc who were all top players at 17. Ferrer doesn't have the miles on the clock they do.

Mainad
06-06-2012, 11:22 AM
He's super-fit and very consistent. Almost always plays to his strengths. He may be 30 but he plays more like someone 4 or 5 years younger!

kragster
06-06-2012, 11:33 AM
Unlike what TW would have you believe not all players start and end their primes and post primes at the same age. That's why it's best to discuss the sum total of achievements rather than compare achievements at a certain age.

Fed Kennedy
06-06-2012, 11:35 AM
The Spanish training methods are superior.

Wolfman Jack
06-06-2012, 11:49 AM
Whether in the dinner plate or in smoke form, vegetables are good for you.

Wolfman Jack
06-06-2012, 11:49 AM
The Spanish training methods are superior.
Standing by for dumb PED reference in 3...2...1...

djones
06-06-2012, 11:50 AM
As of late people seem to realize that 30 isn't really that old actually.
I think with the right attitude and motivation players could easily play at a high level when in their 30ies.
Agassi is an example and now Federer as well.
And I believe there were 37 players being 30 or over at the start of this Roland Garros.
Also Haas at 34 was having a very good tournament.

Btw, I 'like' that fact Ferrer is a smoker, shows you can very well be a Pro tennis player with bad habits.
I think Grosjean smoked cigarettes as well.

At 28, I might even take some tennis lessons, maybe it isn't too late for me :-)

Emet74
06-06-2012, 12:12 PM
Wow--I didn't realize he was quite 30. I thought he was about 28. He's a model of consistency, that's for sure. Did Ferrer have as much success/play as much tennis in the early part of his career? I don't remember seeing him around THAT much until the last 5 years. Maybe he's benefiting from having a lighter match load in the early part of his career. Or maybe I'm off base on that assumption--can't look up his record right now.

I don't think Ferrer hit the top 10 'til 2007, as compared to Fed who's the same age but became top 10 in 2002 and top 5 in 2003, or Roddick who's 1 year younger but broke thru' around the same time as Fed.

Tennis_Hands
06-06-2012, 12:24 PM
Standing by for dumb PED reference in 3...2...1...

There is no need from such. Dr. Cotorro approves.

ivan_the_terrible
06-06-2012, 12:28 PM
The Spanish training methods are superior.

Agreed completely - look at their dominance in cycling & football and the odd swimmer. The Spanish government decided awhile back to turn their country into a powerhouse athletic empire (who cares about the economy anyway?). Rumour has it they fashioned their training on the legendary East German mantra of hard work and austerity.
The results speak for themselves - check out their progressively increasing medal hauls in the past Olympics, their superiority in cycling, #1-ranked football team & of course the dominance in tennis.

Or maybe it's just something in the water over there..

Tennis_Hands
06-06-2012, 12:40 PM
Agreed completely - look at their dominance in cycling & football and the odd swimmer. The Spanish government decided awhile back to turn their country into a powerhouse athletic empire (who cares about the economy anyway?). Rumour has it they fashioned their training on the legendary East German mantra of hard work and austerity.
The results speak for themselves - check out their progressively increasing medal hauls in the past Olympics, their superiority in cycling, #1-ranked football team & of course the dominance in tennis.

Or maybe it's just something in the water over there..

I see what you did there.

:twisted:

Wolfman Jack
06-06-2012, 12:47 PM
Agreed completely - look at their dominance in cycling & football and the odd swimmer. The Spanish government decided awhile back to turn their country into a powerhouse athletic empire (who cares about the economy anyway?). Rumour has it they fashioned their training on the legendary East German mantra of hard work and austerity.
The results speak for themselves - check out their progressively increasing medal hauls in the past Olympics, their superiority in cycling, #1-ranked football team & of course the dominance in tennis.

Or maybe it's just something in the water over there..
Yeah, the Conquistadors also used PEDs in their quests in the New World. On the other hand, maybe it was (and still is) that they have cojones.

sundaypunch
06-06-2012, 12:54 PM
Agreed completely - look at their dominance in cycling & football and the odd swimmer. The Spanish government decided awhile back to turn their country into a powerhouse athletic empire (who cares about the economy anyway?). Rumour has it they fashioned their training on the legendary East German mantra of hard work and austerity.
The results speak for themselves - check out their progressively increasing medal hauls in the past Olympics, their superiority in cycling, #1-ranked football team & of course the dominance in tennis.

Or maybe it's just something in the water over there..


Yes, cyclist Alberto Contador is a perfect example of Spanish dominance in sports.

ivan_the_terrible
06-06-2012, 01:18 PM
Yeah, the Conquistadors also used PEDs in their quests in the New World. On the other hand, maybe it was (and still is) that they have cojones.

Oh so it all comes down to who has the biggest balls? Silly me, I thought it was more complicated than that.

I particularly like your colonialist reference, not sure of the relevance to the topic, but it does tell me something about you.

Wolfman Jack
06-06-2012, 01:26 PM
Oh so it all comes down to who has the biggest balls? Silly me, I thought it was more complicated than that.
We are talking about physical strength and not talent. PEDs don't target talent.

I particularly like your colonialist reference, not sure of the relevance to the topic, but it does tell me something about you.
Yeah, it tells you that contrary to 99% of the population I know some history and I don't let my mouth run faster than my brain.

ivan_the_terrible
06-06-2012, 02:22 PM
We are talking about physical strength and not talent. PEDs don't target talent.


Yeah, it tells you that contrary to 99% of the population I know some history and I don't let my mouth run faster than my brain.

I'm having trouble following you. Now you're saying that 'having cojones' means having physical strength? I thought 'having cojones' meant having intestinal fortitude, that's generally what the term means.

Regarding your Conquistador comment, let me tell you what it tells me ;)

It tells me that you know some history (is that something to brag about??) and it tells me that you think that invading other countries, stealing their valuables and killing the inhabitants in the process - shows that the invaders have 'cojones', which you admire. You equate the behaviour of these murderous colonialists with the current dominance of Spaniards in sports today.
Somehow, I think Rafa and co would distance themselves from your analogy, but I could be wrong.

kishnabe
06-06-2012, 02:22 PM
Last year and this year are his best years. I guess he understands his game better, plays a better balance between Defense and Aggression.

He more fit now than ever....then again I wouldn't know really why and anyone here wouldn't know here. Ferrer might not even tell us why he is better.....I guess Nadal will tell us after he beats him.

Rjtennis
06-06-2012, 04:54 PM
I hate to say it but I really wonder about steriods with him. I do like Ferrer and all of the grit he shows, but i have no idea how he can stay healthy grinding the way he does. Ferrer doesnt win many easy points, he grinds everything out.

Tennis_Hands
06-06-2012, 05:17 PM
We are talking about physical strength and not talent. PEDs don't target talent.

You missed 2011, son.

Towser83
06-06-2012, 05:24 PM
good point... just how is he even competing?

Wolfman Jack
06-06-2012, 05:24 PM
I'm having trouble following you. Now you're saying that 'having cojones' means having physical strength? I thought 'having cojones' meant having intestinal fortitude, that's generally what the term means.

Regarding your Conquistador comment, let me tell you what it tells me ;)

It tells me that you know some history (is that something to brag about??) and it tells me that you think that invading other countries, stealing their valuables and killing the inhabitants in the process - shows that the invaders have 'cojones', which you admire. You equate the behaviour of these murderous colonialists with the current dominance of Spaniards in sports today.
Somehow, I think Rafa and co would distance themselves from your analogy, but I could be wrong.
First of all, having "cojones" means having courage and fighting spirit. Courage and fighting spirit most often materializes in physical strength and stamina. Not that whoever has that gift necessarily has more physical strength and stamina than someone who doesn't, but that they are willing to draw them and use them to the maximum potential.

Second of all, I agree that colonialism has obviously its bad aspects. Just like about any type of human endeavour. When Indian tribes killed each other and engaged in human sacrifices it was just "in-fighting". When the Spaniards waged war against them it was "colonialism". My point is that reality is far more complex than the vast majority of people are willing to acknowledge. The fact of the matter is that throughout history the strong have always prevailed, and that will continue happening as long as the human race exists because it is in our genetic makeup. We can only pray that those stronger than us are also more morally evolved than we are.

But, to the point of this discussion, I maintain that Conquistadors needed cojones to achieved what they did, regardless of any moral merit of their campaigns.

Wolfman Jack
06-06-2012, 05:27 PM
You missed 2011, son.
Are you implying that Nole is on the juice? Because I don't believe it (I do believe that he is in a sophisticated regime of targeted nutrition and physical exercise, however) plus the occassional dose of hypobaric chamber treatments.

None of that is illegal.

Wolfman Jack
06-06-2012, 05:29 PM
Last year and this year are his best years. I guess he understands his game better, plays a better balance between Defense and Aggression.

He more fit now than ever....then again I wouldn't know really why and anyone here wouldn't know here. Ferrer might not even tell us why he is better.....I guess Nadal will tell us after he beats him.
I've always been a fan of Ferrer. To me, more than Nadal or Djokovic, he exemplifies what many people might have achieved if motivated to such extremes. Also, the fact that he is the underdog and has managed to break into the top 10 again at his age, is amazing to me.

Tennis_Hands
06-06-2012, 05:41 PM
First of all, having "cojones" means having courage and fighting spirit. Courage and fighting spirit most often materializes in physical strength and stamina. Not that whoever has that gift necessarily has more physical strength and stamina than someone who doesn't, but that they are willing to draw them and use them to the maximum potential.

WHAT?

Second of all, I agree that colonialism has obviously its bad aspects. Just like about any type of human endeavour.

You mean, like, for example, trying to find a cure against cancer? Or launching satellites in Space?

When Indian tribes killed each other and engaged in human sacrifices it was just "in-fighting". When the Spaniards waged war against them it was "colonialism". My point is that reality is far more complex than the vast majority of people are willing to acknowledge. The fact of the matter is that throughout history the strong have always prevailed, and that will continue happening as long as the human race exists because it is in our genetic makeup. We can only pray that those stronger than us are also more morally evolved than we are.

Your view on Colonialism is rather simplistic one. The opposite of what you claim to have.

And ivan_the_terrible is right. Your colonialistic ideas show a lot about you.

But, to the point of this discussion, I maintain that Conquistadors needed cojones to achieved what they did, regardless of any moral merit of their campaigns.

No, they needed the more advanced weaponry and war tactics. That has nothing to do with balls. Are you sure that you are not a fan of Nadal? The entire VB believes, that Nadal's mental strength is directly transformed in some super human physical abilities.

Wolfman Jack
06-06-2012, 05:49 PM
WHAT?

Can you materialize your incredulity and articulate it into something with more than 1 syllable?


You mean, like, for example, trying to find a cure against cancer? Or launching satellites in Space?

Curing cancer has a lot of downsides. Experimentation with animals, people sacrificed in inhumane drug trials? Of course, you are just looking at the end results (the cure of cancer itself.) Most of the conquistadors were also convinced they were doing something good (and in a way, they actually did, by converting a savage people which engaged in human sacrifice and even cannibalism to Christianity.) Watch Apocalypto some time, it will do you some good. It is surprisingly accurate at a historical level. And if you don't agree, don't simply respond with "WHAT?"


Your view on Colonialism is rather simplistic one. The opposite of what you claim to have.

And ivan_the_terrible is right. Your colonialistic ideas show a lot about you.

You just say I'm wrong but don't explain why. You used more syllables this time, but said as much as you did in your first response. Good try, but you need to try even harder.


No, they needed the more advanced weaponry and war tactics. That has nothing to do with balls. Are you sure that you are not a fan of Nadal? The entire VB believes, that Nadal's mental strength is directly transformed in some super human physical abilities.
Of course weaponry and tactics were vital, but they needed plenty of cojones. They were vastly outnumbered and an extremely high percentage of them died. Can you understand that fact and at least appreciate the individual courage involved by the colonial soldiers?

The Hype
06-06-2012, 05:52 PM
Are you implying that Nole is on the juice? Because I don't believe it (I do believe that he is in a sophisticated regime of targeted nutrition and physical exercise, however) plus the occassional dose of hypobaric chamber treatments.

None of that is illegal.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eeGNhmZBQLk/T753OksLlqI/AAAAAAAABPI/g3jjMGpkusw/s1600/jennifer-lawrence.gif

Tennis_Hands
06-06-2012, 05:56 PM
Are you implying that Nole is on the juice? Because I don't believe it (I do believe that he is in a sophisticated regime of targeted nutrition and physical exercise, however) plus the occassional dose of hypobaric chamber treatments.

None of that is illegal.

I am implying, that PEDs can give an athlete better chances to use his talent. Not to mention, that it is rather difficult to determine, what is talent in sport. Some people consider the hand-eye coordination a talent. And there are drugs, that can enhance indirectly your hand-eye coordination.

As for Djoker. If something is too good to be true, it probably isn't.

Wolfman Jack
06-06-2012, 06:02 PM
I am implying, that PEDs can give an athlete better chances to use his talent. Not to mention, that it is rather difficult to determine, what is talent in sport. Some people consider the hand-eye coordination a talent. And there are drugs, that can enhance indirectly your hand-eye coordination.

As for Djoker. If something is too good to be true, it probably isn't.
Well, I agree with you to a point (regarding your first statement that PEDs might improve somebody's abilities to "better use their talent.")

The problem is that steroids (if that's what you mean by PEDs) and their effects on the human body actually are detrimental to a tennis player. Not to mention that they shrink your family jewels :)

As for Nole being on the juice, I don't believe it and I frown on those who do those sort of veiled and unsubstantiated accusations. As I do of those who do the same with Nadal.

Here's a hint for you: Good nutrition and obsessive exercise will do wonders to anybody's body.

klementine79
06-06-2012, 06:22 PM
PEDS do not improve agility, athletic skill or cardiovascular capacity. In fact, there are studies that show they decrease these attributes.

However, they do increase muscle bulk, strength and endurance by helping the body retain and maximize the use of protein(s), which in turn helps decrease recovery time between workouts or matches.

It makes no sense for tennis players to abuse PEDS. A cycle or two here and there within the calendar year to maximize the retention of proteins is very likely however.

Tennis_Hands
06-06-2012, 06:52 PM
Can you materialize your incredulity and articulate it into something with more than 1 syllable?

I can and I have.


Curing cancer has a lot of downsides. Experimentation with animals, people sacrificed in inhumane drug trials?

Are you a PETA activist as well?

What country do you live in? Because in the country, where I live, "inhumane drug trials" are prohibited by the law.

Of course, you are just looking at the end results (the cure of cancer itself.) Most of the conquistadors were also convinced they were doing something good (and in a way, they actually did, by converting a savage people which engaged in human sacrifice and even cannibalism to Christianity.) Watch Apocalypto some time, it will do you some good. It is surprisingly accurate at a historical level. And if you don't agree, don't simply respond with "WHAT?"

So, Christianity was a gift to the indigenous people and somewhat superior to their own rituals and believes? I am pretty certain, that a lot more people were sacrificed in the name of this peaceful religion, that in the name of all the heathen Gods put together. Does the word "Inquisition" ring a bell?

And what a hypocracy to claim, that Conquistadors went to Mexico and South America to spread Christianity. In the best case scenario, Christianity was a mere instrument, to spread influence. The real reasons to go there and stay there were a lot different.

"Watch Appocalypto". My friend, Apocalypto refers to the Maya civilization. One , that was extinct several hundred years, before any Conquistador set foot on the American continent. There are a lot of sources, from which you can get your knowledge. Movies are not one of them.

And the WHAT was not referring to your Colonialism remarks.

Of course weaponry and tactics were vital, but they needed plenty of cojones. They were vastly outnumbered and an extremely high percentage of them died. Can you understand that fact and at least appreciate the individual courage involved by the colonial soldiers?

What number of cojones would you say each and every one of them had? Just to quantify "plenty".

I cannot understand the fact, and I highly doubt, that anyone, who was born and raised in today's relative rich countires can. Including you.

Wolfman Jack
06-06-2012, 07:36 PM
I can and I have.

I don't remember you doing such a thing.


Are you a PETA activist as well?

What country do you live in? Because in the country, where I live, "inhumane drug trials" are prohibited by the law.

I'm not a PETA activist. It doesn't take one to realize that many animals deserve to live far more than some so-called "human beings."


So, Christianity was a gift to the indigenous people and somewhat superior to their own rituals and believes? I am pretty certain, that a lot more people were sacrificed in the name of this peaceful religion, that in the name of all the heathen Gods put together. Does the word "Inquisition" ring a bell?

Any ritual that involves human sacrifice and cannibalism in order to appease a pagan God I am certain needs to be exterminated.

As far as The Inquisition being responsible for more deaths than all pagan religions... Don't make me laugh. Please do some basic research. How many people do you think "The Spanish Inquisition" (the one with the most infamous history, which, by the way, is highly undeserved) executed during all its history?


And what a hypocracy to claim, that Conquistadors went to Mexico and South America to spread Christianity. In the best case scenario, Christianity was a mere instrument, to spread influence. The real reasons to go there and stay there were a lot different.

I never said that was the primary objective of the Spaniards. Re-read my post. I said that most of them believed part of their mission was to christianize the heathen natives. And this served in many cases as a justification to commit their own inhuman acts and atrocities.


"Watch Appocalypto". My friend, Apocalypto refers to the Maya civilization. One , that was extinct several hundred years, before any Conquistador set foot on the American continent. There are a lot of sources, from which you can get your knowledge. Movies are not one of them.

Fair enough. I agree with you, and I don't claim to be a master historian. I was unaware of the Maya civilization.


What number of cojones would you say each and every one of them had? Just to quantify "plenty".

I cannot understand the fact, and I highly doubt, that anyone, who was born and raised in today's relative rich countires can. Including you.
"Plenty" did not refer to number but to size. It is a very well established colloquial form of the term.

In any case, enjoy your false sense of superiority and confidence in our times. Humanity is but a mere step from going back to the Stone Age.

BeHappy
06-06-2012, 07:37 PM
I can and I have.




Are you a PETA activist as well?

What country do you live in? Because in the country, where I live, "inhumane drug trials" are prohibited by the law.



So, Christianity was a gift to the indigenous people and somewhat superior to their own rituals and believes? I am pretty certain, that a lot more people were sacrificed in the name of this peaceful religion, that in the name of all the heathen Gods put together. Does the word "Inquisition" ring a bell?

And what a hypocracy to claim, that Conquistadors went to Mexico and South America to spread Christianity. In the best case scenario, Christianity was a mere instrument, to spread influence. The real reasons to go there and stay there were a lot different.

"Watch Appocalypto". My friend, Apocalypto refers to the Maya civilization. One , that was extinct several hundred years, before any Conquistador set foot on the American continent. There are a lot of sources, from which you can get your knowledge. Movies are not one of them.

And the WHAT was not referring to your Colonialism remarks.



What number of cojones would you say each and every one of them had? Just to quantify "plenty".

I cannot understand the fact, and I highly doubt, that anyone, who was born and raised in today's relative rich countires can. Including you.

Why are the French so much better at sports than the English? England doesn't have a single player in the 100. Steroids?



Answer please.

ruerooo
06-06-2012, 07:38 PM
All of the above! :-)

(Except for those who started ranting about completely unrelated cyclists :roll: )

Wolfman Jack
06-06-2012, 07:39 PM
Why are the French so much better at sports than the English? England doesn't have a single player in the 100. Steroids?



Answer please.
No. The French simply bribe the ATP officials, umpires, and other people of influence in the highest spheres of professional tennis by baking them delicious bonbons and regaling them with free cheese platers. :)

The joke above works on so many levels. In case you missed part of it: English cuisine sucks ballz. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ViscaB
06-06-2012, 07:40 PM
Why are the French so much better at sports than the English? England doesn't have a single player in the 100. Steroids?



Answer please.

They invest much more in their "system". The French have a very different attitude than the English have. The French like to organize things from above. To plan things. You can see it in sports, in politics and even in city planning.

ViscaB
06-06-2012, 07:41 PM
I don't think Ferrer hit the top 10 'til 2007, as compared to Fed who's the same age but became top 10 in 2002 and top 5 in 2003, or Roddick who's 1 year younger but broke thru' around the same time as Fed.

Exactly, he has much less mileage on his body being a late blossomer.

t135
06-06-2012, 07:43 PM
There was a story about Ferrer giving up on tennis at one point in his career. He quit playing and with no education and job skills wound up working as a brick mason making next to nothing. After a while he realized what a gift his tennis career was and went back to it completely inspired and motivated. The rest is history.

I like the guy. He's a good role model except for the smoking.

BeHappy
06-06-2012, 07:44 PM
They invest much more in their "system". The French have a very different attitude than the English have. The French like to organize things from above. To plan things. You can see it in sports, in politics and even in city planning.

Nonsense.

What finishing school of soccer did THeirry Henry, Zinidene ZIdane, Nicolas Anelka etc go to?

Why Has Sweden so many top tennis players? Even today they have Soderling and Johannson won the AO a few years ago, and the other johannson was unlucky and had to retire. Edberg, Wilander and Borg have over 20 slams between them, how did that happen?

Why did Belgium produce Justine Henin and Kim Clijsters?

sureshs
06-06-2012, 07:44 PM
Second of all, I agree that colonialism has obviously its bad aspects. Just like about any type of human endeavour. When Indian tribes killed each other and engaged in human sacrifices it was just "in-fighting". When the Spaniards waged war against them it was "colonialism".

Human sacrifices were a product of the belief systems of those times.

Colonialism was a carefully planned move to usurp land and wealth and control the people for the benefit of others, often on a foreign continent.

Because there was slavery in the US does not give sanction to Russia to invade the US. A civil war in one country can cause justified international peace efforts and failing that, some military action, but colonialism was not that. It was just going and sitting on someone's else's property, with some loose legal justification like forcibly signed consent agreements or some fake moral outrage against "uncivilized" activities.

A couple can have disagreements but a third person cannot occupy the home because of that. The state may interfere if children are in danger, but some arbitrary guy cannot go and drive the parents from their home.

There have been many side benefits of colonialism, including tennis and cricket and education, and many colonials were ordinary people making a living where they found opportunities. That does not justify the system. It is like forcibly putting a police officer in your home and claiming that he is there to protect you. And he may be just an ordinary and good guy, but you will not accept it.

Wolfman Jack
06-06-2012, 07:52 PM
Human sacrifices were a product of the belief systems of those times.

Colonialism was a carefully planned move to usurp land and wealth and control the people for the benefit of others, often on a foreign continent.

Because there was slavery in the US does not give sanction to Russia to invade the US. A civil war in one country can cause justified international peace efforts and failing that, some military action, but colonialism was not that. It was just going and sitting on someone's else's property, with some loose legal justification like forcibly signed consent agreements or some fake moral outrage against "uncivilized" activities.

A couple can have disagreements but a third person cannot occupy the home because of that. The state may interfere if children are in danger, but some arbitrary guy cannot go and drive the parents from their home.

There have been many side benefits of colonialism, including tennis and cricket and education, and many colonials were ordinary people making a living where they found opportunities. That does not justify the system. It is like forcibly putting a police officer in your home and claiming that he is there to protect you. And he may be just an ordinary and good guy, but you will not accept it.
I kind of understand your point of view (which is the run-of-the mill perspective that colonialism is bad and colonial powers are just selfish.)

My point is: So what? Like I said, tribes in the American continent were in constant war against each other. Battles with undiscriminated bloodshed, rapes, killing of innocent children, and capture of slaves, were commonplace.

The Spaniards established a more humane society, and took whatever wealth they could find along the way. Do you think that wealth belonged to the natives by virtue of the fact that they were born in that land? Native Americans didn't even have the same concept of property and ownership that was prevalent in civilized countries in Western Europe.

The strong always conquers and takes away from the weak. It happens at the cellular level, and the political level, and everywhere in between.

The Spaniards ended a backwards civilization that was keen on sacrificing children and extracting the hearts of still-alive captives to appease their gods. All South Americans are indebted to Spain for ending such horror. Obviously, the process wasn't painless, but surgery always involves a certain degree of controlled destruction.

Tennis_Hands
06-06-2012, 08:24 PM
Why are the French so much better at sports than the English? England doesn't have a single player in the 100. Steroids?


Huh?!?

Have you looked at the Olympic medal table for the Summer Olympics for France and United Kingdom?

All time and the most recent Beijing Olympic games?

Nonsense.

What finishing school of soccer did THeirry Henry, Zinidene ZIdane, Nicolas Anelka etc go to?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clairefontaine

And there are such centers on lower levels in many parts of France.

Besides, France profits from its vastly superior gentic pool, due to the infiltration of citizens from its former colonies. Especially in Football. Which is not the case with UK.

Next time, if you do not know, ask.

BeHappy
06-06-2012, 08:25 PM
due to the infiltration of citizens from its former colonies. Especially in Football. Which is not the case with UK.


Haha what?????????????????????????????????????????

If you think England doesn't have enough "infiltration of people from it's former colonies" I don't know what to tell you! 15% of prisoners in the UK are black.

Why is France currently better at tennis , Rugby and Soccer? The three sports England invented and concentrate on.


Tennis: Ten top 100 players for France, 0 top 100 players for England.

Soccer: France won the world cup in 1998 and were finalists in 2006, England hasn't won a world cup or been to a final since 1966.

Rugby: France reached the final of the last World Cup and won the Grand Slam in 2010. England hasn't won the Grand Slam in 10 years.

Clearly there is a steroid programme in France!


And subtract the cycling medals and France is doing far better than England in the Olympics!

Mainad
06-06-2012, 08:47 PM
Haha
And subtract the cycling medals and France is doing far better than England in the Olympics!

Not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Why subtract the cycling medals? Why is England doing better in cycling than France, the home of the Tour de France and of many more recognized international cycling events?

Tennis_Hands
06-06-2012, 08:52 PM
Haha what?????????????????????????????????????????

Why is France currently better at tennis, Rugby and Soccer? The three sports England invented and concentrate on. And if you think England doesn't have enough "infiltration of people from it's former colonies" I don't know what to tell you!

And subtract the cycling medals and France is doing far better than England in the Olympics!


Out of 24 players in the current English National Football Team (for which sport I was making the remark and just because you gave example with football players) only 6 players have to some extend a foreign origin. Out of those 6 players only one has two parents from completely different country than UK. Do you want me to give you the numbers for France?

England concentrates on tennis? Have you other jokes to tell?

I am not a fan of Rugby, so I cannot comment on different aspects, but it seems, that it is very difficult to take Rugby as an example, since its format is very particular and number of participants, very restricted anyway.

Besides, I didn't know, that to invent a sport warrants superiority. I will note that and tell it to my grandsons, when they are able to understand how great your idea was.

What does "substract cycling medals" means? Do they not have roads, mountains or tracks in France? Isn't the most prestigious and largest cycling event in the world held in France? Isn't the current Olympic Champion in MTB from France? Nah, I wouldn't go there.

And what happened to all other remarks of yours? It seems, that you are grasping at straws, to not look like a fool. Not that you do not now, but at least you are trying.

BeHappy
06-06-2012, 08:55 PM
Not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Why subtract the cycling medals? Why is England doing better in cycling than France, the home of the Tour de France and of many more recognized international cycling events?

Because it's one event that's never been in the olympics before that England won 8 gold medals in, giving the false impression England is better than France at Track and Field?

Three sports England invented:

Soccer: France won euro 2004, World Cup 1998 and finalists World Cup 2006. England hasn't won a World Cup or been to a final since 1966. Never won the European Cup.

Tennis: England has 10 top 100 players, 0 for England. Leconte finalist at RG and Noah Champion, England hasn't had a finalist in the Open Era at Wimbledon.

Rugby: England hasn't won a World Cup or Grand Slam in 10 years, France won the Grand Slam in 2010, France were finalists in the 2011 World Cup.

France has a doping programme.

BeHappy
06-06-2012, 08:57 PM
Out of 24 players in the current English National Football Team (for which sport I was making the remark and just because you gave example with football players) only 6 players have to some extend a foreign origin. Out of those 6 players only one has two parents from completely different country than UK. Do you want me to give you the numbers for France?

England concentrates on tennis? Have you other jokes to tell?

I am not a fan of Rugby, so I cannot comment on different aspects, but it seems, that it is very difficult to take Rugby as an example, since its format is very particular and number of participants, very restricted anyway.

What does "substract cycling medals" means? Do they not have roads, mountains or tracks in France? Isn't the most prestigious and largest cycling event in the world held in France? Isn't the current Olympic Champion in MTB from France? Nah, I wouldn't go there.

And what happened to all other remarks of yours? It seems, that you are grasping at straws, to not look like a fool. Not that you do not now, but at least you are trying.

There are 10 million non whites in Britain according to the latest census, out of 54 million people. Just as many as France if not more. Spain didn't need blacks to win the 2010 World Cup did they? Holland didn't need blacks to get to the final, Uruguay to get to the semi finals. Typical French racists with your excuses.

Let's hear more French excuses. The truth is that Spain just produces better winners than you do. France produces talented losers like Pioline, Leconte, Tsonga, (Napoleon! Petain!) and Spain produces winners like Santana, Nadal and Brugera.

Give Gasquet all the steroids you want, he'll still choke under pressure. Because he's a loser. Just another French loser. You know it's true.

Give Nadal all the steroids in the world, he'll never be as good an athlete as Monfils, but he's a winner! He doesn't choke. French players don't need steroids, they need balls. How many match points did Tsonga have against Djokovic? Do you understand what that poster meant when he said cojones now?

OddJack
06-06-2012, 09:13 PM
He is afraid of his coach. If he declines Javier will lock him inside a dark room.

Mainad
06-06-2012, 09:13 PM
Because it's one event that's never been in the olympics before that England won 8 gold medals in, giving the false impression England is better than France at Track and Field?

Never been in the Olympics before? Cycling has been an Olympic sport ever since the 1st modern Olympic Games, Athens 1896!



Tennis: England has 10 top 100 players, 0 for England. Tsonga finalist at RG, England hasn't had a finalist in the Open Era at Wimbledon or RG.

I assume you mean England specifically as opposed to Britain which would, of course, include Murray.


France has a doping programme.[/B]

So you're saying that's the reason England has fallen behind France? That it doesn't have a doping programme?

BeHappy
06-06-2012, 09:14 PM
I assume you mean England specifically as opposed to Britain which would, of course, include Murray.

I wrote England in the post you quoted you idiot. Maybe you thought I was confusing England with France, which would at least make sense, I never made any mention of Murray or Scotland.

The French say Spain has a doping programme because they are doing 3% better at sports, well France is doing 100 times better than England so by their own logic they must have a doping programme in place.

Tennis_Hands
06-06-2012, 09:15 PM
There are 10 million non whites in Britain according to the latest census, out of 54 million people. Just as many as France if not more.

Hahaha. Interesting, how many of the "non-whites" in UK are interested in traditional european sports? I am pretty sure, that the vast majority of them are form India and Pakistan, and all they care is Cricket. Softball etc. More importantly, there is no organization, that channels the efforts of the athlete wannabes in sports like tennis and football.


Let's hear more French excuses. The truth is that Spain just produces better winners than you do. France produces talented losers like Pioline, Leconte, Tsonga, and Spain produces winners like Nadal and Brugera.

You are ignorant. France has produced and still produces great athletes in almost every sport.

Anyway, if we are to talk about doping, there is no denying the fact, that Spain has tolerated this issue on the highest possible level (Government officials). Everyone is free to draw his own conclusions from that.

There is also no denying the fact, that Doping reigns supreme at the highest level in almost every sport with a lot of exposure and marketing potential. The only question is to what extend are different athletes involved. Particularly in tennis it is a matter of interpretation, but some athletes are more probable dopers, due to their styles, than others.

BeHappy
06-06-2012, 09:19 PM
Hahaha. Interesting, how many of the "non-whites" in UK are interested in traditional european sports? I am pretty sure, that the vast majority of them are form India and Pakistan, and all they care is Cricket. Softball etc. More importantly, there is no organization, that channels the efforts of the athlete wannabes in sports like tennis and football.




You are ignorant. France has produced and still produces great athletes in almost every sport.

Anyway, if we are to talk about doping, there is no denying the fact, that Spain has tolerated this issue on the highest possible level (Government officials). Everyone is free to draw his own conclusions from that.

There is also no denying the fact, that Doping reigns supreme at the highest level in almost every sport with a lot of exposure and marketing potential. The only question is to what extend are different athletes involved. Particularly in tennis it is a matter of interpretation, but some athletes are more probable dopers, due to their styles, than others.

Micah Richards is a black Englishman who is probably the biggest, strongest, fastest soccer player in the world. 15% of the UK prison population is black. France has plenty of muslims too if your veil ban is anything to go by. I've been to france and I saw 10 times as many veiled muslims as I did blacks

That stupid racist argument you're making doesn't even make sense when you consider that Spain, Holland and Uruguay don't even have a black player between them and they came first, second and third in the last World Cup!

Monfils and Tsonga are bigger, stronger and faster than Ferrer and Nadal. They must be on steroids too. Let's hear more excuses from France! More Racism and more excuses.

Bobby Jr
06-06-2012, 09:22 PM
PEDS do not improve agility, athletic skill or cardiovascular capacity. In fact, there are studies that show they decrease these attributes.
WTF? Of course they can increase agility. That specifically has been one of the most popular uses for them since the 80s - ever seen athletics?

However, they do increase muscle bulk, strength and endurance by...
WTF again? Steroids have come a long way since the 80s in case you haven't noticed. That's why 100m sprinters have gone from looking like the bulked up Ben Johnson to the physique more similar to Usain Bolt much - leaner and thinner. Add to that some PEDs are not about muscle mass/strength at all, rather focussed more on endurance, oxygen carrying capacity or recovery. If you include hormone use in PEDs then there are other factors yet again - the increasing of the lean muscle mass ratio etc.

syke
06-06-2012, 09:22 PM
Marlboro keeps him going...

http://trak.in/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/marlboro-red-lights.jpg

Mainad
06-06-2012, 09:24 PM
I wrote England in the post you quoted you idiot. Maybe you thought I was confusing England with France, which would at least make sense, I never made any mention of Murray or Scotland.

I was just trying to clarify that you were talking about England as opposed to Britain because many people confuse the two, especially non-British people, so kindly watch your mouth! :twisted:


The French say Spain has a doping programme because they are doing 3% better at sports, well France is doing 100 times better than England so by their own logic they must have a doping programme in place.

Maybe French people are just naturally more athletic and sporty than us English types but are jealous because the Spaniards are even better than they are hence the doping accusations! :cool:

BeHappy
06-06-2012, 09:27 PM
I was just trying to clarify that you were talking about England as opposed to Britain because many people confuse the two, especially non-British people, so kindly watch your mouth! :t

Not my fault you can't read. That's your parents fault.

syke
06-06-2012, 09:32 PM
I was just trying to clarify that you were talking about England as opposed to Britain because many people confuse the two, especially non-British people, so kindly watch your mouth! :twisted:



Maybe French people are just naturally more athletic and sporty than us English types but are jealous because the Spaniards are even better than they are hence the doping accusations! :cool:

They aren't called whinging poms for nothing....

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/23/article-2018038-0BF6B2D700000578-758_306x410.jpg

Mainad
06-06-2012, 09:36 PM
Not my fault you can't read. That's your parents fault.

Oh go away and try and grow up a little. Then you might come back one day and make a post or two that makes sense. Won't be holding my breath though!

Tennis_Hands
06-06-2012, 09:39 PM
Micah Richards is a black Englishman who is probably the biggest, strongest, fastest soccer player in the world. 15% of the UK prison population is black. France has plenty of muslims too if your veil ban is anything to go by. I've been to france and I saw 10 times as many veiled muslims as I did blacks.

I am not familiar with the said soccer player, but if he is anything like the American football superstars I can guarantee you, that he, and every other of his teammates is doped to the gills.

You are crazy. You are mixing religions, races, sports etc. in an effort to hold your ground.

That stupid racist argument you're making doesn't even make sense when you consider that Spain, Holland and Uruguay don't even have a black player between them and they came first, second and third in the last World Cup!.

What racist argument am I making? :confused: And what does any of the nations, that came 1,2 and 3 have to do with anything. Aside from the fact, that in the biggest anti-doping operations in Spain, were found lists with athletes (including football players form Barcelona and Real (Madrid)), that apparently were "treated". The same players, that happen to be the most important part of the winning spanish teams.

Monfils and Tsonga are bigger, stronger and faster than Ferrer and Nadal. They must be on steroids too. Let's hear more excuses from France! More Racism and more excuses.

You are making a laughing stock of yourself.

BeHappy
06-06-2012, 09:39 PM
I am not familiar with the said soccer player, but if he is anything like the American football superstars I can guarantee you, that he, and every other of his teammates is doped to the gills.

You are crazy. You are mixing religions, races, sports etc. in an effort to hold your ground.



What racist argument am I making? :confused: And what does any of the nations, that came 1,2 and 3 have to do with anything. Aside from the fact, that in the biggest anti-doping operations in Spain, were found lists with athletes (including football players form Barcelona and Real (Madrid)), that apparently were "treated". The same players, that happen to be the most important part of the winning spanish teams.



You are making a laughing stock of yourself.


French Players have their chances and they can't take them. How many match points does Tsonga need to beat Djokovic? Why did Pioline, Leconte, Tsonga, Clement all lose all their finals? And Brugera and Nadal win most of theirs? Steroids?

Give Gasquet all the steroids in the world and he'll still be a choker. Give Nadal all the steroids in the world and he won't be as good an athlete as Monfils but he'll still always be a winner. Winners win. Losers make excuses.

Brugera and Nadal had the balls to take their chances, Gasquet, Tsonga, Monfils, Leconte, Clement are French chokers who have more athleticism and skill than Brugera or Nadal, but they choke. They are French losers. When Nadal walks into RG it might as well be Hitler marching up the Champs Elysees again, the French reaction is always the same: The white flag.

MasturB
06-06-2012, 09:43 PM
Interesting how the last 3 pages have nothing to do with Ferrer or his smoking habit.

nadal_slam_king
06-06-2012, 09:44 PM
Ferrer hasn't declined because he works harder than most players on tour. Same goes for Nadal, having his best Roland Garros ever. If Federer worked harder he would still be winning slams. But it seems to be a Spanish thing.

rafan
06-06-2012, 09:54 PM
30 years old, as physical a grinding style of play as you can get, a chain smoking habit, and the guy is getting the best results of his career.

Is he some sort of freak, why isn't he declining?

Yes what a great guy he is. As I have said on this site before he should have a special award because he is one of the greatest. He never explains, never complains and I think the secret of his success is the fact that he plays because he loves tennis

rafan
06-06-2012, 10:00 PM
I was just trying to clarify that you were talking about England as opposed to Britain because many people confuse the two, especially non-British people, so kindly watch your mouth! :twisted:



Maybe French people are just naturally more athletic and sporty than us English types but are jealous because the Spaniards are even better than they are hence the doping accusations! :cool:

There is still something in our makeup (british) about being a bit concerned about showing off and being better than our mates. Whereas the spanish are proud to unite and seem to be glad when whoever is top

Tennis_Hands
06-06-2012, 10:03 PM
Yes what a great guy he is. As I have said on this site before he should have a special award because he is one of the greatest. He never explains, never complains and I think the secret of his success is the fact that he plays because he loves tennis

If he complains more will that be detrimental to his tennis level? :confused:

Besides, out of the top 5, I cannot think of anyone, who plays tennis to earn his living as much as him. He said that himself. And I do not think, that others from the top 10 love tennis less. At least it doesn't look like that, and it is quite difficult to measure such things.

To explain pure physiological condition with mental features, is typical for the fans of Nadal. Oh, wait ......

ViscaB
06-06-2012, 10:03 PM
Nonsense.

What finishing school of soccer did THeirry Henry, Zinidene ZIdane, Nicolas Anelka etc go to?



The French national football association has some of the best facilities. The French youth teams won many big international trophies well before France won the world cup. The World Cup was the culmination of years of labor.

Interestingly the same goes for Spain. Xavi, Iniesta, Casillas and Cesc had won many international trophies when they were kids.

A good organization also explains why my small country Holland is so successful. Holland has one of the best organized youth leagues from a young age. Dutch coaches are educated very well as well. Just like the French and Spanish ones. There is no coincidence at play here. The English have spent a lot of time in these 3 countries in recent years to try to learn and build a similar system themselves.

syke
06-06-2012, 10:07 PM
The French national football association has some of the best facilities. The French youth teams won many big international trophies well before France won the world cup. The World Cup was the culmination of years of labor.

Interestingly the same goes for Spain. Xavi, Iniesta, Casillas and Cesc had won many international trophies when they were kids.

A good organization also explains why my small country Holland is so successful. Holland has one of the best organized youth leagues from a young age. Dutch coaches are educated very well as well. Just like the French and Spanish ones. There is no coincidence at play here. The English have spent a lot of time in these 3 countries in recent years to try to learn and build a similar system themselves.

Nice pictures of Hong Kong... Where abouts do you live?

ViscaB
06-06-2012, 10:09 PM
Nice pictures of Hong Kong... Where abouts do you live?

Thanks! Mid-levels. Are you very familiar with HK?

Tennis_Hands
06-06-2012, 10:19 PM
I kind of understand your point of view (which is the run-of-the mill perspective that colonialism is bad and colonial powers are just selfish.)

My point is: So what? Like I said, tribes in the American continent were in constant war against each other. Battles with undiscriminated bloodshed, rapes, killing of innocent children, and capture of slaves, were commonplace.

The Spaniards established a more humane society, and took whatever wealth they could find along the way. Do you think that wealth belonged to the natives by virtue of the fact that they were born in that land? Native Americans didn't even have the same concept of property and ownership that was prevalent in civilized countries in Western Europe.

The strong always conquers and takes away from the weak. It happens at the cellular level, and the political level, and everywhere in between.

The Spaniards ended a backwards civilization that was keen on sacrificing children and extracting the hearts of still-alive captives to appease their gods. All South Americans are indebted to Spain for ending such horror. Obviously, the process wasn't painless, but surgery always involves a certain degree of controlled destruction.

Your answer shows, that you haven't understand anything in his post.

I particularly like your explanation about the "concept of property and ownership". ******** at best.

Wolfman Jack
06-06-2012, 10:25 PM
Your answer shows, that you haven't understand anything in his post.

I particularly like your explanation about the "concept of property and ownership". ******** at best.
I can tell by the way you talk that you have very little to contribute to the discussion. All you can do is regurgitate what has been fed to you a thousand times by the mainstream media or your college professors.

You still have not been able to explain how it was immoral for the Spaniards to conquer the New World.

All I have told you is that the strong always conquers the weak (even in pre-colombine civilizations,) and that if Spain hadn't invaded and set their rule over the land, things would still be the same in America as they were 520 years ago.

Tennis_Hands
06-06-2012, 10:28 PM
I can tell by the way you talk that you have very little to contribute to the discussion. All you can do is regurgitate what has been fed to you a thousand times by the mainstream media or your college professors.

You still have not been able to explain how it was immoral for the Spaniards to conquer the New World.

All I have told you is that the strong always conquers the weak (even in pre-colombine civilizations,) and that if Spain hadn't invaded and set their rule over the land, things would still be the same in America as they were 520 years ago.

WOW. Let's try your theory. Were the things in Europe the same before 200 years and now? How about USA? Discuss.

I will make it even more interesting.

How many people died from bombs, mass murders, concentration camps, gas chambers, chemical weapons and genocide in the WW2, which was between the most "advanced" nations in terms of technology, moral values and society structure? Discuss.

Wolfman Jack
06-06-2012, 10:31 PM
WOW. Let's try your theory. Were the things in Europe the same before 200 years and now? How about USA? Discuss.
No, but there are tribes in the Amazon that live the same way they have lived for centuries.

The world is what it is right now thanks to Western Civilization, for better or for worse. Things like democracy, the industrial revolution, and the vast majority of technological advances are a product of Western Civilization.

You are in denial, and I don't expect you to wake up any time soon. If you had lived in the 60s you'd probably live in a hippie commune smoking marijuana all day long. I'm sorry, but it's 2012 now.

ViscaB
06-06-2012, 10:36 PM
This is not the place to discuss the issues that surround colonialism...

Tennis_Hands
06-06-2012, 10:37 PM
This is not the place to discuss the issues that surround colonialism...

I agree and appologize.

Gizo
06-06-2012, 10:39 PM
Ferrer has done incredibly well. He was playing at a very high level in late 2007-early 2008 as well, and after his decline from that standard, I never thought that 4 years later he would get back up there and continue to be pushing for top 5 ranking and racking up the titles.

Even ahead of Nadal, I think that Ferrer may be the biggest fighter in men's tennis.

I would love to see him following Ljubicic's career and finally winning a big masters series title in the latter stages of his career.

ViscaB
06-06-2012, 11:14 PM
I agree and appologize.

No probs:).

syke
06-06-2012, 11:32 PM
Thanks! Mid-levels. Are you very familiar with HK?

Very familiar... Do you frequent the courts at Victoria Park?

rafan
06-06-2012, 11:51 PM
Ferrer has done incredibly well. He was playing at a very high level in late 2007-early 2008 as well, and after his decline from that standard, I never thought that 4 years later he would get back up there and continue to be pushing for top 5 ranking and racking up the titles.

Even ahead of Nadal, I think that Ferrer may be the biggest fighter in men's tennis.

I would love to see him following Ljubicic's career and finally winning a big masters series title in the latter stages of his career.

An intelligent post - well done

PrinceMoron
06-07-2012, 12:05 AM
Ferrer will spend all day on court and never gives up because he knows mummy Murray is waiting for him off court somewhere.

PrinceMoron
06-07-2012, 12:13 AM
I was just trying to clarify that you were talking about England as opposed to Britain because many people confuse the two, especially non-British people, so kindly watch your mouth! :twisted:


Obviously not talking about junior tennis, which is surprising.

rafan
06-07-2012, 12:53 AM
If he complains more will that be detrimental to his tennis level? :confused:

Besides, out of the top 5, I cannot think of anyone, who plays tennis to earn his living as much as him. He said that himself. And I do not think, that others from the top 10 love tennis less. At least it doesn't look like that, and it is quite difficult to measure such things.

To explain pure physiological condition with mental features, is typical for the fans of Nadal. Oh, wait ......

What a narrow bigoted perception you have - get educated!

Tennis_Hands
06-07-2012, 01:15 AM
What a narrow bigoted perception you have - get educated!

:confused:

Explain yourself.

dominikk1985
06-07-2012, 02:25 AM
I do think that ferrer occasionally smokes but I don't think he is a chain smoker. otherwise he would not be that well conditioned.

there is the phenomenon of the "drunk smoker". I know some guys that smokes quite a few cigarettes at parties when they are drunk (usually got them from other persons in the club) but otherwise don't do it. ferrer might be such a guy.

rufus_smith
06-07-2012, 09:05 AM
The correct answer to "Why hasn't Ferrer declined yet? " is that he has been relatively injury free across his entire career. It is the same reason why Federer is still going strong. Go Daveeed!

SLD76
06-07-2012, 09:15 AM
Perhaps Yannick Noah could help us with this question?

tee hee.

10teehees

Sabratha
06-07-2012, 09:22 AM
He's ranked that high because he hasn't had the same wear and tear other past top tenners have. Federer has a unique playing style that allows him to stay at the top of the game longer, meaning less decline, I'd say Ferrer's just lucky.

Slice&Smash
06-07-2012, 09:35 AM
The correct answer to "Why hasn't Ferrer declined yet? " is that he has been relatively injury free across his entire career. It is the same reason why Federer is still going strong. Go Daveeed!

It's his low center of gravity :)

And I don't think he is as fit as some of you guys claim. You'll see tomorrow.

jackson vile
06-07-2012, 10:38 AM
30 years old, as physical a grinding style of play as you can get, a chain smoking habit, and the guy is getting the best results of his career.

Is he some sort of freak, why isn't he declining?

Ask Federer

zagor
06-07-2012, 10:52 AM
Ask Federer

Fed entered top 10 in 2002.

Ferrer entered top 10 in 2007.

Fed has played 1000+ single matches in his career up to this point.

Ferrer has played played around 660 matches in his career up to this point.


Use your brain LOLville, I presume you have one.

Ehh
05-05-2013, 07:50 AM
Sure looks like he's declining now.

The early round exits and losses to lesser opponents are fast accumulating, including losing to Wawrinka today on clay (wtf?), Tursonov on clay, Kevin Anderson on hard...

The pattern is clear: the grinder has finally ground himself down.

Amelie Mauresmo
05-05-2013, 08:03 AM
I think the Ferrer's smoking has been elevated to urban legend status. Yes, I believe he smoked at one point in his career (didn't someone post pictures?). Maybe he even still occasionally has a smoke, I don't know. But, people talk about it as if he has always and still does smoke multiple packs per day. I don't think that's the case. Nonetheless, even if he smokes one cigarette per week, it's SO out of line of what we expect from professional athletes.

I don't know why he hasn't declined. We know he is an animal in the gym and his fitness regimine is outstanding. Other than that, he seems to just be lucky withy serious injuries and he might also be lucky in that his joints are primarily still "good" despite all the grinding tennis. Also, he's small, which sometimes (not always) makes a difference in regards to wear and tear.

He isn't THAT old, but I guess for tennis, at least historically, he is.

Someone had posted a thread the other day about age and "modern sports medicine" (without specificying what he was talking about), and how "modern sports medicine" allows players to stay in the game at a high level longer.

I don't think it would be possible for Ferrer to play at this high level if he was chain smoking or smoking packs of cigarettes a day. There is no way he could compete like this. If Ferrer does smoke I imagine he probably smokes like maybe one carton a week or something or maybe a couple of cigarettes a week.

veroniquem
05-05-2013, 08:22 AM
Ask Federer
Ha ha best answer :)

mightyrick
05-05-2013, 08:22 AM
30 years old, as physical a grinding style of play as you can get, a chain smoking habit, and the guy is getting the best results of his career.

Is he some sort of freak, why isn't he declining?

I honestly think that it is likely he and others are using some form of PEDs. I know he's a fit guy. All of these guys are fit by any standards. But the demands of the tour these days are so high that that they be able to recover quickly, play at the highest level, and maintain that for months on end.

I don't like PEDs, but with the demands of the tour, I can certainly say that I understand it if someone uses them.

rossi46
05-05-2013, 01:36 PM
Including contaminated meat in a diet always helps.