PDA

View Full Version : MacEnroe is right, Federer isn't the best volleyer in the top 10.


tistrapukcipeht
06-29-2012, 11:34 AM
He says is Nadal, I have to agree, because Federer put away volleys is just awful, Nadal rarely misses a put away, or while in movement volley, in this match alone Federer has made so many mistakes in all types of volleys, it's hard to believe Federer would miss those. He has to work on these volleys more.

If Federer doesn't serve and volley it isn't because of conditions, it's because he doesn't have it anymore.

Larrysümmers
06-29-2012, 11:40 AM
yuuuuuuuup

psYcon
06-29-2012, 11:47 AM
yet another mistake in tiebreak

tistrapukcipeht
06-29-2012, 11:52 AM
another one just happened again, he just can't do it anymore.

firefox
06-29-2012, 11:54 AM
true story. :shock:

zagor
06-29-2012, 11:55 AM
I'd say Tsonga is a better volleyer but honestly Fed usually isn't this bad at the net, he made some Roddick like approaches today.

rtl11
06-29-2012, 11:56 AM
Not to take away from Nadal - he really has great volleys, but he often goes to net well after his shot when he has had time to estimate the impact, and still using his superior movement skills can get very quickly to net for the put away.

Fed and most other people go to net a bit speculatively daring the opponent to pass them.

JustBob
06-29-2012, 12:00 PM
Exactly. When is the last time you saw Nadal hit an approach shot in the middle of the court daring an opponent to pass him. Never.
But he's very good at quickly closing to the net and putting away volleys.

tistrapukcipeht
06-29-2012, 12:04 PM
Exactly. When is the last time you saw Nadal hit an approach shot in the middle of the court daring an opponent to pass him. Never.
But he's very good at quickly closing to the net and putting away volleys.

Not to take away from Nadal - he really has great volleys, but he often goes to net well after his shot when he has had time to estimate the impact, and still using his superior movement skills can get very quickly to net for the put away.

Fed and most other people go to net a bit speculatively daring the opponent to pass them.

That's why I'm saying it, because while Nadal doesn't miss easy put away volleys or running forward volleys, Federer has missed at least 6-7 on this match alone.

Federererer
06-29-2012, 12:09 PM
I have to agree with this. FEd is the most overrated volleyer there is. But even worse than his volleying is his decision making on which balls to come in on. He has absolutely no sense whatsoever about how to do this. What the hell is Annacone teaching him??????

OldFedIsOld
06-29-2012, 12:34 PM
He should really look up the Tennis Tips/Instructions section for some advice from our expert coaches here on TT.

kishnabe
06-29-2012, 12:35 PM
Can't Federer have a bad day on volleys. Round 1 and 2....he volleyed incredible.

TenFanLA
06-29-2012, 12:38 PM
Fact 1: Fed uses 90 sq in. Nadal uses 100.

Fact 2: When Fed goes to 110, he will be the Top volleyer again. :)

Praetorian
06-29-2012, 12:39 PM
Y'all act as though this was prime Federer playing. Where was all the crap talk when Federer won those 16 majors? Or how about when he was steam rolling the first 2 rounds. The man is getting old. Get over it, he'll have more and more bad days. If you guys can't accept it, then this game isn't for you.

InspectorRacquet
06-29-2012, 12:42 PM
I think McEnroe is wrong. Federer is a very good volleyer, and when compared to Nadal, can look bad. Nadal comes to the net when the volley is one hundred percent certain to not come back. As others have said, Federer comes to the net daring the opponent to be passed.

We all know Djokovic isn't a better volleyer than Federer. Berdych is pretty good, but he's no Federer. The rest of the top 10 isn't great compared to Federer in volleying.

GasquetGOAT
06-29-2012, 12:43 PM
Ah there is already a thread on this. Anyway, Mcenroe can be bit of a ********* sometimes!

brickner_damage
06-29-2012, 12:57 PM
Y'all act as though this was prime Federer playing. Where was all the crap talk when Federer won those 16 majors? Or how about when he was steam rolling the first 2 rounds. The man is getting old. Get over it, he'll have more and more bad days. If you guys can't accept it, then this game isn't for you.

But Mc's comments weren't about prime Federer..

MasturB
06-29-2012, 01:01 PM
Monaco for best volleyer.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ArMCjHxpH2M/T43J7XNMWcI/AAAAAAAABTw/l_PZ4sUyAiE/s1600/monacoibnjury.png

SLD76
06-29-2012, 01:02 PM
Imo, fed's volleying today had more to do with bad approaches to the JB bh of all things, rather than his absolute skill at the net.

he was coming in behind alot of balls that he should have stayed back on. or just not hitting good approaches he.

fed was really trolling andy roddick today.

Tcbtennis
06-29-2012, 01:03 PM
Exactly. When is the last time you saw Nadal hit an approach shot in the middle of the court daring an opponent to pass him. Never.
But he's very good at quickly closing to the net and putting away volleys.

Actually he did it yesterday in the first game of the 5th set and missed a backhand volley to give Rosol the break that determined the result of the match. I was so surprised by Rafa's poor approach shot because you're right that he rarely does that. I guess we now know why.

MasturB
06-29-2012, 01:04 PM
In fairness to the Roddick comparisons.

Roddick gets passed on a full lunge on like 90% of his approaches it seems. Fed just poked at volleys today at the net. Was pretty sad to watch.

Tcbtennis
06-29-2012, 01:06 PM
In fairness to the Roddick comparisons.

Roddick gets passed on a full lunge on like 90% of his approaches it seems. Fed just poked at volleys today at the net. Was pretty sad to watch.

Roddick gets passed 90% of the time because 90% of his approach shots are crappy crosscourt backhand slices that give his opponent all the time in the world to set up his shot and pass him down the line.

tennis_pro
06-29-2012, 01:08 PM
So who's a better volleyer? Nadal? Yea sure, try a Federer (or Roddick) like casual approach shot and see what he does from there.

Oh and they didn't help him in his match against Rosol.

mandy01
06-29-2012, 01:08 PM
Roger had an all-round off day today. Nothing to do with volleys alone.

jackson vile
06-29-2012, 01:08 PM
Only in people's imaginations is Federer the best volleyer.

PrinceMoron
06-29-2012, 01:10 PM
Fed is a lot better than ARod, thinking about that volley he couldn't make his mind up on and handed Fed the Wimbledon title.

Swissv2
06-29-2012, 01:10 PM
He should really look up the Tennis Tips/Instructions section for some advice from our expert coaches here on TT.

Indeeeeeed! If he "only" took the advice from our experts at TT, he would have..what...20+ Grand Slams by now?

:twisted:

Lawn Tennis
06-29-2012, 01:13 PM
He says is Nadal, I have to agree, because Federer put away volleys is just awful, Nadal rarely misses a put away, or while in movement volley, in this match alone Federer has made so many mistakes in all types of volleys, it's hard to believe Federer would miss those. He has to work on these volleys more.

If Federer doesn't serve and volley it isn't because of conditions, it's because he doesn't have it anymore.

Nadal isn't a better volleyer. He just knows when to come in. Nadal rarely comes in without having the utmost upper-hand.

jackson vile
06-29-2012, 01:17 PM
Nadal isn't a better volleyer. He just knows when to come in. Nadal rarely comes in without having the utmost upper-hand.

Is that not part of being good at something? For instance you need to hit a big forehand at the right time. You don't just start blasting forehands right away, you set it up first and go with the highest reward to risk ratio.

If you don't, then your errors add up and you lose the game.

tennis_pro
06-29-2012, 01:22 PM
Is that not part of being good at something? For instance you need to hit a big forehand at the right time. You don't just start blasting forehands right away, you set it up first and go with the highest reward to risk ratio.

If you don't, then your errors add up and you lose the game.

Cut the crap, how can you call someone a good volleyer when he attacks the net 5 times in a match (and on perfect approach shots)? I'd think you'd have to be a complete idiot to not use such a great asset to shorten up the points.

So either Nadal's that or there's something wrong with your theory.

Lawn Tennis
06-29-2012, 01:25 PM
Is that not part of being good at something? For instance you need to hit a big forehand at the right time. You don't just start blasting forehands right away, you set it up first and go with the highest reward to risk ratio.

If you don't, then your errors add up and you lose the game.

True. His court sense is superior therefore he makes more volleys but hits a lot less of them.

Out of the top 10, I'd say Tsonga is by far the best volleyer.

Arafel
06-29-2012, 01:26 PM
I've been saying for years that Fed being the best all-courter is an illusion. He rarely ventures to the net, and when he does, he isn't a very good volleyer, but people on this board put him up against good volleyers like Rafter, Edberg, McEnroe, Becker, Sampras etc. Fed is one of the best baseliners in history. And before you bring up 2001 Wimbledon, yes, he attacked a lot in that match, but after that he pretty much stopped coming in, and his net play has died as a result.

tennis_pro
06-29-2012, 01:30 PM
I've been saying for years that Fed being the best all-courter is an illusion. He rarely ventures to the net, and when he does, he isn't a very good volleyer, but people on this board put him up against good volleyers like Rafter, Edberg, McEnroe, Becker, Sampras etc. Fed is one of the best baseliners in history. And before you bring up 2001 Wimbledon, yes, he attacked a lot in that match, but after that he pretty much stopped coming in, and his net play has died as a result.

I pretty much agree except that Fed's volleying skills didn't suddenly die in 2001, he was still a very good volleyer in the early stages of his domination up till probably early 2007 (especially the famous exhibition in AO 2007)

jackson vile
06-29-2012, 01:33 PM
Cut the crap, how can you call someone a good volleyer when he attacks the net 5 times in a match (and on perfect approach shots)? I'd think you'd have to be a complete idiot to not use such a great asset to shorten up the points.

So either Nadal's that or there's something wrong with your theory.

Let's play it your way, who is the best volleyer out of the top 5 ATP players. And why do they not use such a great asset to shorten up the points, on crucial points, and to outright win?

tennis_pro
06-29-2012, 01:36 PM
Let's play it your way, who is the best volleyer out of the top 5 ATP players. And why do they not use such a great asset to shorten up the points, on crucial points, and to outright win?

Is Tsonga in the top 5? If so I pick him.

The top 4 are average volleyers. Djokovic is lousy at the net, Federer way too casual (with the approach shots), I hardly see Murray at the net but once he gets there he seems OK for current standards, Nadal is probably the best in easy putaways but hardly attacks the net at all or only on perfect approach shots.

jackson vile
06-29-2012, 01:41 PM
Is Tsonga in the top 5? If so I pick him.

The top 4 are average volleyers. Djokovic is lousy at the net, Federer way too casual (with the approach shots), I hardly see Murray at the net but once he gets there he seems OK for current standards, Nadal is probably the best in easy putaways but hardly attacks the net at all or only on perfect approach shots.

If they are oh so easy why does not amazing Federer do it? Why not Tsonga, or anyone else for that matter?

Tcbtennis
06-29-2012, 01:43 PM
Nadal isn't a better volleyer. He just knows when to come in. Nadal rarely comes in without having the utmost upper-hand.

Absolutely agree. Nadal doesn't use approach shots when he gets a midcourt ball. He continues the rally or hits a forehand winner and comes running to the net to put the volley away only when he has pulled his opponent way off the court. Federer, being the aggressive player that he is, sees the mid court ball and decides to move forward. His volleys on his backhand side were very vulnerable today as his approach shots were so so.

Yesterday must have been one of the very few times that I've seen Rafa actually approach the net with an approach shot (a mediocre approach shot) and miss the backhand volley passing shot. It gave Rosol the break in the fifth set.

Federer employs a higher risk game, always trying to move forward. With string technology being what it is these days he is at high risk of being passed than Rafa who is much more selective as to when he comes to the net.

tennis_pro
06-29-2012, 01:44 PM
If they are oh so easy why does not amazing Federer do it? Why not Tsonga, or anyone else for that matter?

Cause Federer hits way more outright winners and generally with more pace, so attacking the net after hitting one of those shots is pointless as he's already won the point.

Nadal needs to abuse one's backhand 10 consecutive times before he decides to hit an approach shot when his opponent is like 10 miles off the court

jackson vile
06-29-2012, 01:46 PM
Cause Federer hits way more outright winners and generally with more pace, so attacking the net after hitting one of those shots is pointless

Sounds like a copout for sure, and proves the point that Federer is not the superior volleyer and never was.

tennis_pro
06-29-2012, 01:49 PM
Sounds like a copout for sure, and proves the point that Federer is not the superior volleyer and never was.

I think you need to start with the basics. So if Nadal attacks the net 5 times and wins 4 of those, does that mean he's a better volleyer than Federer who, say, wins 30/50?

How can you even compare the 2 without actually watching the way both guys hit a volley?

jackson vile
06-29-2012, 01:54 PM
I think you need to start with the basics. So if Nadal attacks the net 5 times and wins 4 of those, does that mean he's a better volleyer than Federer who, say, wins 30/50?

How can you even compare the 2 without actually watching the way both guys hit a volley?

I don't think that you should rate the players abilities on aesthetics. That seems rather silly providing zero support for your argument.

You guys need to just give up, Federer never was and never will be a S&V or even a volley player. Federer volleys just to keep people happy so they can pretend he is something he is not.

tennis_pro
06-29-2012, 01:57 PM
I don't think that you should rate the players abilities on aesthetics. That seems rather silly providing zero support for your argument.

You guys need to just give up, Federer never was and never will be a S&V or even a volley player. Federer volleys just to keep people happy so they can pretend he is something he is not.

LOLWUT? You take more factors in, like approach shot, distance from net, power of passing shot, accuracy.

Seriously, start with the basics and then come back.

akv89
06-29-2012, 02:07 PM
I don't think that you should rate the players abilities on aesthetics. That seems rather silly providing zero support for your argument.

You guys need to just give up, Federer never was and never will be a S&V or even a volley player. Federer volleys just to keep people happy so they can pretend he is something he is not.

Federer is no serve and volleyer, but he remains the only active player to have won a major title with S&V.

Praetorian
06-29-2012, 02:14 PM
You guys need to just give up, Federer never was and never will be a S&V or even a volley player. Federer volleys just to keep people happy so they can pretend he is something he is not.

I agree, people, you need to give up because mr vile won't bend. On the other hand mr vile, needs to SHUT UP.

RCizzle65
06-29-2012, 02:53 PM
You guys need to just give up, Federer never was and never will be a S&V or even a volley player. Federer volleys just to keep people happy so they can pretend he is something he is not.

What, Federer won his first Wimbledon serving and volleying, so he was a serve and volleyer at one point.

Defcon
06-29-2012, 03:22 PM
I suggest all of you should go see Sampras vs Fed 2001 if you think Fed doesn't know how to volley. He came in on pretty much every 1st serve and most of his 2nd.

10is
06-29-2012, 03:33 PM
Y'all act as though this was prime Federer playing. Where was all the crap talk when Federer won those 16 majors? Or how about when he was steam rolling the first 2 rounds. The man is getting old. Get over it, he'll have more and more bad days. If you guys can't accept it, then this game isn't for you.

Exactly! Its the same with people who think Sampras was ALWAYS an immaculate volleyer who NEVER EVER EVER had off days where he missed easy putaways. Selective memory at work.

DoubleDeuce
06-29-2012, 03:35 PM
hehehe..

judging by one match, how smart!

It's like saying ...oH..Nadal is not the best clay court player, because he lost to Soderling!!

THUNDERVOLLEY
06-29-2012, 05:13 PM
I've been saying for years that Fed being the best all-courter is an illusion. He rarely ventures to the net, and when he does, he isn't a very good volleyer, but people on this board put him up against good volleyers like Rafter, Edberg, McEnroe, Becker, Sampras etc. Fed is one of the best baseliners in history. And before you bring up 2001 Wimbledon, yes, he attacked a lot in that match, but after that he pretty much stopped coming in, and his net play has died as a result.

This.

Although I would not classify him as a strict baseliner, he tends to hang back too much when he had the tools for options. When he comes in, his skills are not in the conversation with McEnroe, Edberg, Becker or Sampras. To his die hard fans he only appears good because tour has been overrun by legions of baseliners with no clue about S&V play.

paulorenzo
06-29-2012, 05:27 PM
tsonga, nadal, and federer are the best volleyers in the top ten. if fish was still in the top ten then he would edge all of them easily. nadal is consistently able to put volleys away and is a lot less reckless with approaches, federer and tsonga come in on more neutral occasions and execute tougher volleys. tsonga and federer have better 2nd volleys and court sense at net from a neutral position than nadal. no way are tsonga, nadal, and fed even near sampras, mcenroe, rafter, and edberg.

in the FO/halle part of this year, i noticed fed wasn't missing easy putaways and sitters like he is usually guilty of doing. i thought it was a good sign. then today happened. dismal performance at net.

norbac
06-29-2012, 05:39 PM
I remember a simple forehand volley yesterday (or maybe in his first round match) that bounced on his side before getting over to the other side.....Fed was miserable today as well....

TeflonTom
06-29-2012, 05:42 PM
nadz has the best drop-volley on tour. mac has a massive hardon for drop-volls so no wonder he sprogs all over nadz.

nadz also is great at picking when to come to net. always approaches very smart - never comes to net unless he is in a dominant pos so he always hits very easy volleys. makes him look great

technique wise tho i think fed and tsonga both have better hands at net generally. stick all 3 at net and pepper em with passes, nadz comes off a distant third

fed and tsonga would both be pretty ave volleyers in any previous era tho. fact is atp players cant volley for ****

TheF1Bob
06-29-2012, 06:00 PM
Djokovic top 5 for best overheads, no doubt.

TeflonTom
06-29-2012, 06:08 PM
Djokovic top 5 for best overheads, no doubt.
and karlovic has great serve

relevance?

ledwix
06-29-2012, 06:09 PM
Delete...!

ledwix
06-29-2012, 06:10 PM
Delete. Rock it like this!

paulorenzo
06-29-2012, 06:11 PM
nadz has the best drop-volley on tour. mac has a massive hardon for drop-volls so no wonder he sprogs all over nadz.

nadz also is great at picking when to come to net. always approaches very smart - never comes to net unless he is in a dominant pos so he always hits very easy volleys. makes him look great

technique wise tho i think fed and tsonga both have better hands at net generally. stick all 3 at net and pepper em with passes, nadz comes off a distant third

agreed, have them play out a point when two players are both at net under neutral circumstances and nadal wouldn't do as well as the other two in that instance either.

still, federer can learn a thing or two from nadal when it comes to approaching the net more intelligently.

Sid_Vicious
06-29-2012, 06:16 PM
This.

Although I would not classify him as a strict baseliner, he tends to hang back too much when he had the tools for options. When he comes in, his skills are not in the conversation with McEnroe, Edberg, Becker or Sampras. To his die hard fans he only appears good because tour has been overrun by legions of baseliners with no clue about S&V play.

I agree with you. Federer is not among the greats when it comes to skills at the net. Before his match with Federer at Wimbledon 2001, Henman said that Federer was a solid volleyer but nothing compared to the likes of Rafter and Sampras.

You know what's interesting? I was watching TTC's list of 100 greatest players, and when they got to Tony Roche on the countdown, many of Tony's peers like Laver and Newcombe praised Roche for his outstanding net game; Roger, who was coached by Roche in 2006-2007, said that Tony volleyed much better than him and helped him improve his volley technique. However, under Roche's coaching,Federer's net game got worse while his baseline game became amazing.

fhdowntheline
06-29-2012, 06:18 PM
To my mind, NONE of the top ten players today come up to the net as part of their PRIMARY play. It is often a chanced approach based on a good FH/BH from baseline or mid court. In case of Mac, Edberg and Becker and (to a good degree) Sampras, the volley was their PRIMARY shot after the serve..There is simply no comparision..

paulorenzo
06-29-2012, 06:20 PM
When down set point in the 3rd set yesterday.

yeah i saw that, guess that's what happens when one doesn't hit a good approach shot coming into the net. they get passed, and rafa is no different.

to nadal's credit he was trying to hit his approach behind rosol by hitting down the middle. to rosol's credit, he has great presence of mind to not commit to a side before the opponent's approach is hit.

TeflonTom
06-29-2012, 06:24 PM
In case of Mac, Edberg and Becker and (to a good degree) Sampras, the volley was their PRIMARY shot after the serve.
edberg, prolly. mac, maybe - he still played a lotta backcourt esp off grass. others - no, or perhaps only in wimby service games

sampras and boom boom both relied on their fh way more than their volls. if they had an off day with volls then they would be okay coz their serve set up easy putaways most of the time

anantak2k
06-29-2012, 06:28 PM
BELLUCCI is absolutely the greatest vollleyer in the game today!

KineticChain
06-29-2012, 07:27 PM
The guy has one bad day volleying and this thread pops up. Never change TT... never change.

The Dark Knight
06-29-2012, 08:37 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6-TM5eQZR4k/TID70aKEnqI/AAAAAAAAFvo/EVFPCjE96Uo/s1600/batman.jpg

10is
06-29-2012, 08:49 PM
Let me know when anyone in the top 10 (besides Fed) can pull off volleying of this calibre:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlTbDY9p8r4

Nathaniel_Near
06-29-2012, 09:47 PM
Suggesting that Nadal's volleys are the best in the top 10 is borderline disgraceful, lolz.

Tennis_Bum
06-29-2012, 09:52 PM
Exactly. When is the last time you saw Nadal hit an approach shot in the middle of the court daring an opponent to pass him. Never.
But he's very good at quickly closing to the net and putting away volleys.

Agreed. Just because Johny Mac said so, didn't mean it was true. Nadal usually came to the net to put away weak replies. Whereas, Fed was trying to force issues. It is a lot easier to make put-away volleys on weak replies.

Still, I think Fed volleys can be better but he's getting older and slower too and his approach shots are not penetrating and/or deep as they were so that make him work harder and the net and sometimes make him look like Roddick. Sad but true.

tennis_pro
06-30-2012, 03:06 AM
I remember a simple forehand volley yesterday (or maybe in his first round match) that bounced on his side before getting over to the other side.....Fed was miserable today as well....

well but you can't take 1 sample and use it as a standard. It's like taking Fed's forehand when it's off and saying that he can't hit a proper forehand these days

kragster
06-30-2012, 05:13 AM
It comes to my mind that the 800 lb gorilla no one is talking about is the ozone layer depletion. Why are we all avoiding this topic when 20 years from now this could be really significant for our kids?

On topic, I had my wisdom teeth removed and they hurt like hell. Kids don't do it.

Swissv2
06-30-2012, 06:00 AM
I love how you all are arguing about this like children, yet no one has any stats to show. Well, continue arguing, monkeys. I will continue laughing at this thread.

*Val*
06-30-2012, 06:09 AM
lol Tsonga's a way better volleyer than Rafa... Djoker is probably better too

BigGriff
07-02-2012, 05:16 PM
He should really look up the Tennis Tips/Instructions section for some advice from our expert coaches here on TT.

Especially when the experts could possibly be a 12 year old or a weekend hack with a beer gut and garage sale racquets.

mcenroefan
07-02-2012, 08:03 PM
lol Tsonga's a way better volleyer than Rafa... Djoker is probably better too

Agreed. Tsonga has great hands and Nole is a very good volleyer by today's standards. Nole closes very well, hits the standard low and high volleys well and hits some great drop volleys.

Fed has pretty volleys and pulls off some miracles but he muffs his fair share of easy ones. A number of players have better instincts on closing to the net to make the resulting volleys easier. Fed puts himself in bad position at the net too often and also tends to over-slice the volley at times (instead of a more simple punch).

I will say that Fed's overhead has improved considerably in the past several years and that he has one of the best, if not the best, backhand smashes in the game (probably because he uses his wrist better than anyone in the game).

dennis10is
07-02-2012, 08:10 PM
He should really look up the Tennis Tips/Instructions section for some advice from our expert coaches here on TT.

Federer doesn't deserve to benefit from the wisdom of the TT boards.

big_bill
07-02-2012, 08:19 PM
Federer's volley is average at best.

Bobby Jr
07-02-2012, 08:45 PM
Federer showed yesterday in his match with Malisse that his volleys are much better than Nadal's. He did a pile of kamikaze approaches and still won most of the points.

Nadal almost exclusively hits volleys which come off desperate running shots from his opponents. If he was hitting volleys where his opponent was steady and had plenty of time you'd see how average he really is.

Swissv2
07-02-2012, 10:10 PM
Federer's volley is average at best.
hahahahahahahahaha


dumbass.

egn
07-02-2012, 11:07 PM
Tsonga.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW0iKmRkgbA

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Fed and Nadal are equal in volleying skills. Federer however is far more comfortable there, hence why he approaches a lot. Nadal approaches only if he feels he will win the point there. Federer will actually go to construct a point.

The argument that percentage is evidence of volley skill is stupid. Sampras was a lot of times in the 55-65 range at the net. It's not because he was a bad volleyer, its because his game involved net play. If you try for more volleys you have more chances to look silly on some, and go for much harder volleys.

ductrung3993
07-03-2012, 04:18 AM
Bellucci ftw.

Gorecki
07-03-2012, 04:26 AM
You guys need to just give up, Federer never was and never will be a volley player.

or a world class archery master!!!!

dumass!!

TigerTim
07-03-2012, 04:34 AM
Federer was a great volley back in the day, still is. I was at Wimbledon to see Henman vs. Fed and Fed attacked the net on serve most of the time. And most of the time was successful. He's not as good as McEnroe etc obviously but it is a good component of his game. As for Nadal.............

VPhuc tennis fan
07-03-2012, 06:01 AM
He says is Nadal, I have to agree, because Federer put away volleys is just awful, Nadal rarely misses a put away, or while in movement volley, in this match alone Federer has made so many mistakes in all types of volleys, it's hard to believe Federer would miss those. He has to work on these volleys more.

If Federer doesn't serve and volley it isn't because of conditions, it's because he doesn't have it anymore.
Mac is smoking dope sometimes (or a lot of times, depending on how you call it)! Don't put too much weight in his comments! Usually I split his comments in half. Toss away 1/2, split the remaining 1/2 in another 2 parts. Toss away the new 1/2 (now 1/4 from the beginning if you follow me), and split the new 1/2 in another 2 parts. Repeat until you're satisfied:)
Seriously, Fed volleys are as good as anyone's. The problem is for a number of years, he neglected that part of his game. Kinda of why bother if you can blast winners from the baseline, you know? Although now as he ages, perhaps Annacone and Fed himself realize that it's best to keep the points short against all those youngster ball-bashing baseliners. Kind of not letting them impose their baseline rhythm. IMO.

Dreamcastin
07-03-2012, 06:18 AM
I have to agree that saying nadal is a better volleyer is laughable at best. I also agree with the other poster, that Tsonga is the best in the top 10 right now.

Gangsta
07-03-2012, 06:42 AM
^ It might be too strong a statement to make, but not laughable by any means. You can only go by what you see. The fact that Nadal does end up making a higher percentage of volleys is a testament to his skills. If you ask me whether 90% of 10 approaches is better than 60% of 30, I'd have to say yes.

jackson vile
07-03-2012, 07:20 AM
^ It might be too strong a statement to make, but not laughable by any means. You can only go by what you see. The fact that Nadal does end up making a higher percentage of volleys is a testament to his skills. If you ask me whether 90% of 10 approaches is better than 60% of 30, I'd have to say yes.

****s are breaking their own logic of "quality", does quality matter or not?

NamRanger
07-03-2012, 08:44 AM
Tsonga.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW0iKmRkgbA

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Fed and Nadal are equal in volleying skills. Federer however is far more comfortable there, hence why he approaches a lot. Nadal approaches only if he feels he will win the point there. Federer will actually go to construct a point.

The argument that percentage is evidence of volley skill is stupid. Sampras was a lot of times in the 55-65 range at the net. It's not because he was a bad volleyer, its because his game involved net play. If you try for more volleys you have more chances to look silly on some, and go for much harder volleys.


Sampras rarely bricked volleys the way Federer does almost routinely at times. As I've stated before, Federer's overall "allcourt" game is severely overrated.

Biscuitmcgriddleson
07-03-2012, 08:56 AM
Federer has lost a great deal of ability on his volleys due to his mind more than anything. Ever since AO 08, he always doubts himself. You can almost see a hesitation in his movement from time to time. If they had a tennis skills competition like they do for the NFL Pro Bowl, I would only take Tsonga over Federer out of current players. Nadal makes most of his volleys but they aren't very challenging ones.

Alchemy-Z
07-03-2012, 08:56 AM
Mac says a lot of dumb stuff...but I will not challenge his assessment of volleys. He would know best