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View Full Version : Best grass court of last 15 years if Serena wins- Venus or Serena, both 5 time Champs


NadalAgassi
07-06-2012, 10:38 PM
Right now Venus has 5 Wimbledon titles. Serena if she wins the title tommorow will have 5 Wimbledon titles. Who would be the greatest grass and Wimbledon player of their era in that case.

Edges for Venus:

-1 more Wimbledon final
-Tougher draws to her titles on the whole
-More Wimbledon semis and quarters


Edges to Serena:

-Winning record vs Venus at Wimbledon both overall (3-1) and in finals (2-1)
-Won titles over a 10 year span, slightly longer than Venus, but wasnt really any less dominant either, defending her title twice (Venus defended her title twice as well).
-Higher career winning % at Wimbledon

MichaelNadal
07-06-2012, 10:44 PM
I have to go with Ebony Starr, higher quality wins and competition IMO. Her game is also more catered to the surface. But it's not a huge margin.

http://photos.killervirgo.com/wimbledon2008_venus_champ.jpg

NadalAgassi
07-06-2012, 10:52 PM
I voted equal but honestly I would have to lean to Serena a bit. The H2H is a major determining point when the other elements are equal. People who saw Serena dominate or atleast edge out the rivalry at Wimbledon would probably give her the nod with equal titles. That plus Serena is likely to win more after this year as well.

I would rather think they are tied though. Both are amazing.

Here are their final victims:

Venus 2000 Wimbledon- defeated defending Champion Davenport in 2 sets
Venus 2001 Wimbledon- defeated young Henin in 3 sets
Venus 2005 Wimbledon- defeated World #1 Davenport in 3 sets
Venus 2007 Wimbledon- defeated Bartoli, who had beaten World #! and Serena ouster Henin in semis, in 2 sets
Venus 2008 Wimbledon- defeated Serena in 2 sets


Serena 2002 Wimledon- defeated Venus in 2 sets
Serena 2003 Wimbledon- defeated Venus in 3 sets
Serena 2009 Wimbledon- defeated Venus in 2 sets
Serena 2010 Wimbledon- defeated ZVonareva in 2 sets
Serena 2012 Wimbledon- defeated World #2 Radwanksa (if she wins)


It looks like Venus had the tougher competition all around. Her weakest opponent by far was Bartoli but Bartoli has won Eastborne in her career, beating Kvitova in the final, and beaten both Serena and Henin at Wimbledon. Henin was nowhere near her prime in 2001, and grass is her weakest surface by far (with obviously clay her best by far), but she is still one of the 3 dominant players of the era along with the Williams, and probably the best combined player/grass courter to not win Wimbledon. She also had beaten Capriati in the semis and played some great tennis to win the 2nd set and must have had Venus a bit scared going into the 3rd, so she was no easy victim either. On the other side looking at Serena there are 2 rather weak opponents. Zvonareva is a hard court/indoor player, and not an impressive final opponent on part with Bartoli on grass, and Radwanska the same. Also while playing Venus in all those finals might seem like the toughest road possible, it is arguably tougher to face a greater variety of styles and opponents of the top women too.

Actually looking at the competition and Serena's last 2 weak final opponents, it might lean it a bit towards Venus. I am glad I voted tied.

NadalAgassi
07-07-2012, 10:33 AM
Now is the time to answer the question.

Towser83
07-07-2012, 10:46 AM
I think venus is a better grass player but serena is overall the better player and better competitor.

BigServer1
07-07-2012, 10:50 AM
I voted Serena. This year was pretty spectacular, especially beating #1 and (now) #2 en route, and setting the ace record.

I also say Serena, because it's pretty clear that Venus is done winning Majors, and Serena could easily win another Wimbledon title, or at least make another deep run or two at this event.

DRII
07-07-2012, 10:51 AM
Venus, quite easily IMO...

Of course Venus is my favorite female player but I think I'm still being objective.

Venus' wins overall were much higher quality, with the 2005 final probably the best women's slam final of all time (or close to it). Only fluke for Venus was probably Bartoli.

While Serena capitalized on some easy final opponents: Zvonereva (sic), injured Venus with tremendous knee strapping (09), and Radwanska (sic) this year.

I think the 08 final between Venus and Serena tells the tale of which sister is the better grass court player when both are playing well!

NadalAgassi
07-07-2012, 10:49 PM
I think the 08 final between Venus and Serena tells the tale of which sister is the better grass court player when both are playing well!

They both played very well in both the 2002 and 2008 finals and each won one. I also dont think a pre prime baby Henin on by far her worst surface, where she would never win the title even in her peak years to come, in 2001 was the toughest opponent.

Colin
07-07-2012, 10:59 PM
I say Venus for sure, best on grass since Navritolova. Her health issues and her mental problems facing her little sister contributed to some of those losses. Serena is certainly more consistent, but peak Venus is better on grass.

Best female grass-court match I've seen goes to Venus-Davenport. It was epic.

MichaelNadal
07-08-2012, 01:00 AM
I say Venus for sure, best on grass since Navritolova. Her health issues and her mental problems facing her little sister contributed to some of those losses. Serena is certainly more consistent, but peak Venus is better on grass.

Best female grass-court match I've seen goes to Venus-Davenport. It was epic.

I agree. That match was just insane and both women pushed themselves so hard for it.

DRII
07-08-2012, 05:13 PM
They both played very well in both the 2002 and 2008 finals and each won one. I also dont think a pre prime baby Henin on by far her worst surface, where she would never win the title even in her peak years to come, in 2001 was the toughest opponent.

Venus did not play well in 2002.

She fell off considerably vs the summer of 2001...

NadalAgassi
07-09-2012, 03:16 PM
Venus did not play well in 2002.

She fell off considerably vs the summer of 2001...

I thought the 2002 final was a great match, and Venus's best performance of her 3 slam finals in 2002. To each their own.

TERRASTAR18
07-09-2012, 03:58 PM
I say tie. without her illness, venus could easily have had 6 or 7 wimbledons. without her setbacks, serena could have had 4 in a row(09, 10,11,12), heck to due to her injury in 08, she missed beating her sister for 5 in a row. i supposed the olympics will settle it.

DRII
07-09-2012, 06:47 PM
I say tie. without her illness, venus could easily have had 6 or 7 wimbledons. without her setbacks, serena could have had 4 in a row(09, 10,11,12), heck to due to her injury in 08, she missed beating her sister for 5 in a row. i supposed the olympics will settle it.

What injury in 08 :confused:

Both were playing well that year!

THUNDERVOLLEY
07-10-2012, 12:24 PM
I vote Serena, because I think she's capable of breaking the tie.

ibbi
07-10-2012, 12:35 PM
I think Venus, but there's not all that much in it. Frankly I'd almost say you could discount their wins against each other, because there just seems to be so little passion in them, more importantly Serena has won the title 3 times in this joke of an era for the WTA.

TERRASTAR18
07-10-2012, 01:09 PM
What injury in 08 :confused:

Both were playing well that year!
her back-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Internazionali_BNL_d%27Italia#Women
her knee-
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/2008-07-21-1986254113_x.htm

NadalAgassi
07-10-2012, 04:06 PM
I am quite surprised Venus is so far ahead. I thought she would be equal at best in this poll. Interesting.

Bruce39
07-10-2012, 04:19 PM
How can it be said Venus had to beat better competition in the finals when Serena won 3 of her Wimby's by actually beating the co-best player on grass.

DRII
07-10-2012, 08:00 PM
her back-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Internazionali_BNL_d%27Italia#Women
her knee-
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/2008-07-21-1986254113_x.htm

That proves nothing. Neither were acutely injured in any way whatsoever in the 08 wimbledon final.