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View Full Version : Is Andy Murray the greatest pusher of all time?


Matheson
09-10-2012, 09:28 PM
Murray has really improved his pushing game. I mean it was good before but wow he managed to beat Djokovic finally.

darrinbaker00
09-10-2012, 09:33 PM
Is Andy Murray the greatest pusher of all time? No, because pushers don't even make an ATP qualifying draw, much less win the US Open.

Funbun
09-10-2012, 09:41 PM
Murray has really improved his pushing game. I mean it was good before but wow he managed to beat Djokovic finally.

How about you play Andy Murray and let's see who becomes the pusher.

Did you even watch the match? Murray's a counterpuncher, not a pusher.

Passion4Tennis
09-10-2012, 10:03 PM
The posts by Darrin and Funbun sum it up well. I'm getting tired of seeing so
many threads/posts about Murray being labeled as a "pusher". It's really absurd.
There are NO pushers at that level.

DeShaun
09-10-2012, 10:45 PM
The posts by Darrin and Funbun sum it up well. I'm getting tired of seeing so
many threads/posts about Murray being labeled as a "pusher". It's really absurd.
There are NO pushers at that level.He is getting better about generating pace for purposes of active attack, but he has spent a long time absorbing pace for purposes of eliciting errors with his great feel for the ball. So, it's nice to see him crank up his ground strokes and do some actual killing as opposed to indirectly encouraging his opponent's death because attack tennis is decisive and fast whereas entrapment tennis is necessarily slower and protracted and if we're going to slow the points down I would rather watch serve and volley played with less powerful rackets instead of power pong with liberal amounts of defense being tactically dominant.

AnotherTennisProdigy
09-10-2012, 10:47 PM
No, because he's not a pusher. Pushers don't serve at 130 mph.

Zarfot Z
09-10-2012, 10:56 PM
Is Andy Murray the greatest pusher of all time? No, because pushers don't even make an ATP qualifying draw, much less win the US Open.

You've obviously never heard of Lleyton Hewitt.

TennisLovaLova
09-10-2012, 11:25 PM
You've obviously never heard of Lleyton Hewitt.
At least Lleyton managed to finish the point by himself instead of waiting and provoking and UE from his opponents
Did you watch the match yesterday? Murray kept pushing the ball from his baseline to the middle of Djoko's!!!!

23-25 hits rallies almost all concluded by an UE

Fedex
09-10-2012, 11:40 PM
The posts by Darrin and Funbun sum it up well. I'm getting tired of seeing so
many threads/posts about Murray being labeled as a "pusher". It's really absurd.
There are NO pushers at that level.

The people that write this crap tend to be nasty immature 14 year olds or younger.

Fedex
09-10-2012, 11:48 PM
At least Lleyton managed to finish the point by himself instead of waiting and provoking and UE from his opponents
Did you watch the match yesterday? Murray kept pushing the ball from his baseline to the middle of Djoko's!!!!

23-25 hits rallies almost all concluded by an UE

Yes I watched the whole match.
The only pushing I saw from Murray was him pushing Djokovic from one side of the court to the other with hard precise shots alternating into the corners until even Djokovic broke down in the end.
No one has ever done that to prime Djokovic.
And in that wind it took even more skill.
Anyone trying to deny Murray the win, and the manner of it, is despicable, bitter and biased.
Wait a minute. Am I arguing with a 14 year old?

Marcus2137
09-10-2012, 11:56 PM
How about you play Andy Murray and let's see who becomes the pusher.

Did you even watch the match? Murray's a counterpuncher, not a pusher.

Agreed. I hate that it's so popular/cliche to call everyone pushers unless they hit winners on every point.

If Murray is a pusher than Agassi was a pusher, as was Michael Chang and many other greats.

Funny how a few years ago these guys were all considered great counter-punchers, but by today's forum-"GOATS" they would all be classified as pushers.

I agree, someone who calls Murray a pusher has 1. either never played/seen a real pusher, or 2. hasn't been watching matches.

I saw good serving, net points, aggressive forehands and backhands, balls contently clipping lines, shot after shot hit right to the corners with pace, etc. These guys are taking a lot more risk than anyone who could be defined as a true pusher.

Don't mistake long rallies as pushing. Long rallies are simply the effect of slower conditions we have today compared to 10-15+ years ago.

paulorenzo
09-11-2012, 12:30 AM
Relative to the top 4, murray is able to be a pusher, an all out aggressor, or somewhere in between. He adapts whichever style he thinks would get him the win. Today, given the conditions, he was having success outlasting djokovic from the baseline with emphasis on control, defense,and consistency while still peppering up his shots occasionally, naturally, he stuck with that. In relation to the very top of the game and the level its played in, both murray and djokovic counterpunched well today but both had moments where they were pushing (not 3.5 pushing but top 4 pushing, all things relative) largely because of the conditions. Had the weather been calmer, i imagine their strokes would have been nuch less conservative.

Russeljones
09-11-2012, 12:40 AM
There are NO pushers at that level.

Only 3 of the top 4 in the world. A pusher is someone who lacks the shotmaking or physical ability (or both) to end a point. Someone who is more concerned about sending the ball over the net, cross-court preferably. You saw two prime examples of pushing yesterday when two of the ATP's finest frequently ran from corner to corner without really looking over the net because their skills almost mirror one another.

Murray mixed it up with the odd terrible dropshot that he knew Novak would get to. And any attempt to name that 'calling to the net' is just excusing the limited imagination of the player. Novak's idea of variation was rushing the net after a ridiculously poor slice.

I am sure court development (speed harmonization) and the proliferation of defensive tennis will one day make this a dignified and workman-like style of tennis no player should be ashamed of. However, I for one fail to understand why a player of such stature must wait until the XXth shot in a rally to attempt a flat forehand.

Federer20042006
09-11-2012, 12:50 AM
Murray has arguably the most all-around power of anyone on tour. Serves up to the high 130's. Apparently has the world record forehand. And he has hit many backhands over 100 MPH.

Russeljones
09-11-2012, 12:55 AM
Murray has arguably the most all-around power of anyone on tour. Serves up to the high 130's. Apparently has the world record forehand. And he has hit many backhands over 100 MPH.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics

TennisLovaLova
09-11-2012, 01:08 AM
pusher or not his game was designed to win a GS which he succeeded to do, but his game= ugly tennis
just check his mom's latest interviews she says this

tank_job
09-11-2012, 01:26 AM
Do you know how big Murray is?

He is the tallest of the big 4 and also the heaviest-built out of them. He has the biggest 1st serve. Since when do you call someone with a heavy first serve that knocked Djokovic down in a GS final a pusher?

He can generate easy power, always off the backhand wing, but can also, as the radar gun shows, hit some of the fastest FH's ever (like the one against Fish).

With his build and physical attributes, you'd actually think Murray would actually be a ballbasher, but he has the very rare ability to move exceptionally well for his height play small man and big man tennis. This is why he gives other players fits.

Torres
09-11-2012, 02:26 AM
Do you know how big Murray is?

He looks pretty big in the photo below.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/linkableblob/4254602/data/andy-murray-shows-off-the-us-open-trophy-data.jpg

Fedex
09-11-2012, 02:56 AM
He looks pretty big in the photo below.

Ha ha. That was funny and the perfect reply.
A picture paints a thousand words.

TheF1Bob
09-11-2012, 03:12 AM
He knows how to play inside tornadoes, that's for damn sure.

TennisCJC
09-11-2012, 03:19 AM
Murray did play very defensive. Several times he was 6-8 feet inside the court, hit a hard deep shot and preceded to back up. He also played slices and loopy forehands many times when he had time to take the offensive.

I was rooting for Murray but he is an ATP level pusher to a certain degree.

Sim
09-11-2012, 03:26 AM
You kind of have to play defensive when the wind is making you unable to control your shots, but is that pushing? No way...he just hit with higher percantage shots. Slices, topspin, etc...

Russeljones
09-11-2012, 03:28 AM
You kind of have to play defensive when the wind is making you unable to control your shots, but is that pushing? No way...he just hit with higher percantage shots. Slices, topspin, etc...

You're right. It's only logical to prolong a rally when the wind can take the ball away from you at any given time. :razz:

Rabbit
09-11-2012, 03:32 AM
Just because a player has a plan "B" doesn't make him a pusher. I thought his play was brilliant. There were two sliced backhands Murray hit the wowed the maestro of touch McEnroe. Murray can do it all.

tennisfreak
09-11-2012, 03:50 AM
I wish I could push the ball like Andy Murray.

Fedex
09-11-2012, 04:13 AM
He knows how to play inside tornadoes, that's for damn sure.

You can't coach that.

Miljack
09-11-2012, 05:25 AM
My $0.02 on Murray was he played to not lose, where as at least Djokovic took some chances. Don't get me wrong, they both play high percentage tennis, so, at the top of the ATP, do those two (yes I'm counting Djokovic too) count as "pushers?" To me yes, and even at the pro's level, on that court surface, with the balls they are using, that playing style wins.
To those who counter with "pushers don't serve 130mph," how hard was he hitting his second serve?? Serena was hitting her second serve harder. And how many mid court balls did he just loop back to Djokovic's service line? What does Raffa or Federer do with a ball that short in the court?

Just my OPINION, but I would rather watch contrasting styles of players in a final @ the USO.
I was happy for Murray that he broke through, and at the level's he playing right now, he will win other GS. He's shown the committment to win, and has executed, good for him!

bluetrain4
09-11-2012, 05:38 AM
IMO, Murray isn't a pusher at all, he's a versatile "grinder". I know these terms have no concrete definitions and I've seen them occassionally used interchangeably, but IMO there's a difference.

Murray grinds - yes he often gives himself a large margin for error, and yes he's often getting the ball back seeking to invite errors from his opponent (believing that he's more consistent), but he's also "working" the point at the same time to create opportunities for himself to be aggressive - get a short ball and put it away, or get a look at a passing shot, or get himself to the net.

He doesn't just put back all fluff. He hits forceful shots, even if not completely ripped, he runs his opponents with his hitting patterns, even if he's not usually going completely for the line. He is trying to force errors, but at the same time he's trying to open up the court for himself to take charge of a point when he can. I don't think the slow balls he does put back changes that.

Pushing is more desperate and much less varied, involving literally just getting the ball back because there's not much more the player can do. Murray can do a lot more and he does.

above bored
09-11-2012, 05:46 AM
The posts by Darrin and Funbun sum it up well. I'm getting tired of seeing so
many threads/posts about Murray being labeled as a "pusher". It's really absurd.
There are NO pushers at that level.
It's all relative. He's the equivalent of a pusher at pro level. He's capable of being more aggressive, but he chooses to push a large percentage of the time.

Miljack
09-11-2012, 05:52 AM
"Grinder"="pusher" in my opinon, it's just semantics at the pro level. I think most of us relate to a "pusher" just looping balls back all day, but at the pro level, and how SKILLED these two are, they pull back and play for the UE from their opponent...

Bobby Jr
09-11-2012, 05:56 AM
Hitting only 31 winners in a five set match doesn't exactly help his cause to shrug off the pusher tag.

In context, Federer hit 50% more than than when losing to Berdych in 4 sets (a match with 30% fewer points played).

The conditions seemed really heavy out there for the final but, still, they were both being pretty cautious and unadventurous for the most part.