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View Full Version : Comparing the games of Djokovic and Murray?


tank_job
09-11-2012, 12:20 PM
They seem to play (or want to play) an almost identical style of tennis.

Both of them are backhand-dominant, net-shy grinders who pummel their opponents into submission with a barrage of deep, yet high percentage ground-strokes, waiting to draw the error. Crucially, they give up less lateral court positioning than the Nadal's and Federer's of this world because they do not spend all day hitting inside-out forehands - thus it can be even harder to attack them.

Both of them try to go on the offensive when they draw a short reply from their opponent, but Djokovic is the one who ends up doing it more often, simply because he has much greater talent, and thus can hit put-away shots better.

The way I see it, both of them have the intent of playing exactly the same play-style, yet, as Murray is a version of Djokovic who is slower, less powerful and less mentally tough than the Serb, he ends up executing that game-plan much less successfully.

Do you agree with my analysis; Djokovic and Murray are essentially the same player, but with Murray being inferior in every possible department?

If you don't agree with the analysis - how exactly are they different?

BrooklynNY
09-11-2012, 12:23 PM
Agree, except Murray's slice is way better.

Djoker looks funny when he hits slices.

I also think Djoker is more willing to live and die by his sword, where Murray is willing to be beat up on for a bit before fighting

MurrayMyInspiration
09-11-2012, 12:39 PM
Murray has a better serve, backhand, volleys, slice. Nole has more aggresive forehand and uses his weapons in an aggresive fashion but it's more likely for his strokes to break down especially on forehnad side.

PhrygianDominant
09-11-2012, 12:56 PM
Eh...
I don't agree. They are very similar, but I don't think Djokovic is more talented. Or Murray is a lesser version of Djokovic for that matter. Djokovic has had an easier career than Murray. Won his first grand slam against Tsonga, and all credit to him made good on it....3 years later.

Here's my breakdown,

1st Serve: Murray
2nd Serve: Djokovic

Forehand: Equal. Djokovic has a better hit in general, but Murray can flatten his out, djokovic can't, and murray can supplay pace on his own, Djokovic has trouble here

Backhand: Equal. Djokovic is better up the line, but Murray has that instant offense backhand, noone can hurt him there, and he has a better slice.

Volleys: Murray, but it's close.

Overhead: Equal

Movement: Djokovic, but only because he uses it more offensively. Also Djokovic has better balance and slides. Murray is faster in raw foot speed, kids got some wheels.

Mental: Djokovic, but 2011 proved that. He had three years from 2008 to get into multiple slams. I bet Murray wins something a LOT sooner than that, then we'll see what the score is.

Murray: 5
Djokovic: 6

All said and done, Murray is right there, but that mental edge Djokovic had all last year goes a long way. That's my 2 cents.

RCizzle65
09-11-2012, 12:57 PM
Murray's net skills are way ahead of current Djokovic's, in the first couple sets, the commentators were talking about how Djokovic didn't cover the line. Murray has great feel for volleys.

ivan_the_terrible
09-11-2012, 01:02 PM
Their games are pretty similar, but Murray looked the stronger guy out there. His second serve is pathetic though, but since few guys seem to want to step into the court these days he gets away with it.

I sure hope these 2 don't play too many more finals, it will be the death of tennis as we know it.

Tennis_Maestro
09-11-2012, 01:04 PM
They seem to play (or want to play) an almost identical style of tennis.

Both of them are backhand-dominant, net-shy grinders who pummel their opponents into submission with a barrage of deep, yet high percentage ground-strokes, waiting to draw the error. Crucially, they give up less lateral court positioning than the Nadal's and Federer's of this world because they do not spend all day hitting inside-out forehands - thus it can be even harder to attack them.

Both of them try to go on the offensive when they draw a short reply from their opponent, but Djokovic is the one who ends up doing it more often, simply because he has much greater talent, and thus can hit put-away shots better.

The way I see it, both of them have the intent of playing exactly the same play-style, yet, as Murray is a version of Djokovic who is slower, less powerful and less mentally tough than the Serb, he ends up executing that game-plan much less successfully.

Do you agree with my analysis; Djokovic and Murray are essentially the same player, but with Murray being inferior in every possible department?

If you don't agree with the analysis - how exactly are they different?

Props for basically rewording my post in a separate thread, not the first time you've done this, you must make a good a student @ school for plagerising, your ability to reword sentences and make it seem as if its your own thoughts is remarkably good.


Sorry this is so much of a cliched view and myth, I cannot take this anaylsis seriously because of it.

If you watched the match with one eye open you would have clearly seen that yes there were points where Murray was hustling, harrying and chasing everything down to then counter punch Djokovic, but there were also quite any moments during those long exchanges where Murray upped the anti and indeed took the initiative by stepping up with his inside out forehand.

Murray had never been as aggressive in a final as he had been yesterday, Djokovic asked him all the questions and he came up with all the answers. @ two sets up Murray became a little tight and nervous as expected and started to revert back to his default setting of playing it safe and being consistent. After that 3rd set and particularly the 4th however, the blokes stepped it back up to the controlled aggressive style.

Murray actually played aggressively on the big points and that was the key for me, he was outlasting his opponent throughout middle parts of games and winning rallies, but if you recap, you'll note he actually play aggressive on every crucial point.

Also, Djokovic is less of a retriever than Murray? That's an absurd statement, both player's have proven over the years they are counter punchers who work their opponent into submission. Djokovic's tennis is to keep the ball deep consistently moving his opponent left to right over the court even when he (Djokovic) is being made to chase the ball. (Its called offensive defence) once the player is struggling and hits a shallow shot, that is when Novak steps in and bam, lays the winner. Much like Murray. Both counter-punchers, with both, the ability to be aggressive. All this pusher crap is a product of rubbish myths.

Refering to the bold. I have more posts where you've done this too so you could birth more threads. lol Sad.

Tennis_Maestro
09-11-2012, 01:07 PM
Edited^ Used the wrong post of mine.

yellowoctopus
09-11-2012, 01:09 PM
They seem to play (or want to play) an almost identical style of tennis.

Both of them are backhand-dominant, net-shy grinders who pummel their opponents into submission with a barrage of deep, yet high percentage ground-strokes, waiting to draw the error. Crucially, they give up less lateral court positioning than the Nadal's and Federer's of this world because they do not spend all day hitting inside-out forehands - thus it can be even harder to attack them.

Both of them try to go on the offensive when they draw a short reply from their opponent, but Djokovic is the one who ends up doing it more often, simply because he has much greater talent, and thus can hit put-away shots better.

The way I see it, both of them have the intent of playing exactly the same play-style, yet, as Murray is a version of Djokovic who is slower, less powerful and less mentally tough than the Serb, he ends up executing that game-plan much less successfully.

Do you agree with my analysis; Djokovic and Murray are essentially the same player, but with Murray being inferior in every possible department?

If you don't agree with the analysis - how exactly are they different?

Mrs. Djokovic, is that you? or Is it your husband?

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2008/01/28/cnsDijana_Djokovic_narrowweb__300x403,0.jpg

PhrygianDominant
09-11-2012, 01:13 PM
Edited^ Used the wrong post of mine.

LOL, I was gonna say. But seriously good post, I agree with your points.

tank_job
09-11-2012, 01:23 PM
Props for basically rewording my post in a separate thread, not the first time you've done this, you must make a good a student @ school for plagerising, your ability to reword sentences and make it seem as if its your own thoughts is remarkably good. Refering to the bold. I have more posts where you've done this too so you could birth more threads. lol Sad.

A few pointers, Tennis_Maestro;

A). I didn't read what you wrote. It is possible for two people to come up with the same thing at the same time. Especially when it's obvious.

B). I don't regard you as any sort of authority on tennis, so had I read it, it would not have swayed my opinion one way or the other.

C). I don't actually believe anything I write on this forum, anyway. I just aim to get a reaction from people. For instance, by labeling Murray an inferior version of Djokovic, I hope to infuriate long-term fans of Murray and make them feel like they're supporting a 2nd tier player.

D). I was kidding about point 'C).'

E). Not really.

Surecatch
09-11-2012, 01:26 PM
Eh...
I don't agree. They are very similar, but I don't think Djokovic is more talented. Or Murray is a lesser version of Djokovic for that matter. Djokovic has had an easier career than Murray. Won his first grand slam against Tsonga, and all credit to him made good on it....3 years later.

Here's my breakdown,

1st Serve: Murray
2nd Serve: Djokovic
Agreed.

Forehand: Equal. Djokovic has a better hit in general, but Murray can flatten his out, djokovic can't, and murray can supplay pace on his own, Djokovic has trouble here
I would agree with this as well. I think Murray's forehand can be more powerful, but Djokovic is generally more consistent.

Backhand: Equal. Djokovic is better up the line, but Murray has that instant offense backhand, noone can hurt him there, and he has a better slice.
I'd give Murray a slight edge because of his slice, but Novak is more dependable over the course of a long match.

Volleys: Murray, but it's close.
Yeah, this.

Overhead: Equal
I'd probably go with Djoker' here, but like the previous construct, it's basically equal.

Movement: Djokovic, but only because he uses it more offensively. Also Djokovic has better balance and slides. Murray is faster in raw foot speed, kids got some wheels.
Definitely Djokovic....one of the best defensive movers I've seen. Murray is good, but I don't see him as being one of the best of the best.

Mental: Djokovic, but 2011 proved that. He had three years from 2008 to get into multiple slams. I bet Murray wins something a LOT sooner than that, then we'll see what the score is.
Definitely Djokovic, but I'm speaking of match pressure and not overall readiness throughout a season. Murray is historically more fragile in a tense match situation, but Nole' has shown a proneness to slumpy periods.

Murray: 5
Djokovic: 6

All said and done, Murray is right there, but that mental edge Djokovic had all last year goes a long way. That's my 2 cents.

Djokovic, despite his consistency, has become a true champion and put his name in the top ten AT convo'. Murray has not yet, but he took a huge step last night towards finally becoming a big match force tournament in and tournament out, on a yearly basis.

I like both these guys a lot more than I used to. I can't not respect Djoker's achievements and appreciate his game...not at this point. And I've come to realize that even though there were aspects of his career that have rubbed me the wrong way, he really is actually a decent and intelligent guy. And he has personality and charisma....which I Murray has always lacked. That and his drama queen tendancies have made it hard for me to embrace him as a fan would. But same thing...I now recognize that he is a decent and well-meaning guy and that it's just the way he is.

I need someone new to hate. Any suggestions? Berdych still bugs me, but he could be next to break through.

Tennis_Maestro
09-11-2012, 01:27 PM
A few pointers, Tennis_Maestro;

A). I didn't read what you wrote. It is possible for two people to come up with the same thing at the same time. Especially when it's obvious.

B). I don't regard you as any sort of authority on tennis, so had I read it, it would not have swayed my opinion one way or the other.

C). I don't actually believe anything I write on this forum, anyway. I just aim to get a reaction from people. For instance, by labeling Murray an inferior version of Djokovic, I hope to infuriate long-term fans of Murray and make them feel like they're supporting a 2nd tier player.

D). I was kidding about point 'C).'

E). Not really.

I also have a few pointers, Tank_Job;

A) A and D are both lies and B I never made that out in any way.

B) I've seen it with my own eyes before, yet chosen not to say anything, you do this quite often, a poster makes a good point in a thread and you copy the point they've made and summarise it with a few sentences you simply stick in a new thread. Done it to many posters.

C) Think for yourself.

tank_job
09-11-2012, 01:33 PM
I also have a few pointers, Tank_Job;

A) A and D are both lies and B I never made that out in any way.

B) I've seen it with my own eyes before yet chosen to say nothing, you do this with quite a few posters on here, they make good posts and you copy the point they've made and summarise it with a few sentences you stick in a new thread.

C) Think for yourself.

Tennis_Maestro, you are not a genius, or any kind of original thinker, OK?

Nothing about tennis requires any thinking. Nothing about any tennis strategy has any sort of originality to it. This is why you're going to see thread titles that seem like rehashes of existing ideas, or, indeed, older threads - it's inevitable in a sport with so little to actually talk about strategy-wise.

There are basically two strategies;

1). Ball-bash.
2). Grind.

Everything is a variation on those two.

Tennis_Maestro
09-11-2012, 01:38 PM
Tennis_Maestro, you are not a genius, or any kind of original thinker, OK?

I never made out I was, but I am pretty certain you read what I had typed and became encouraged to make a thread based on the point I made in the respective post you had read.

Nothing about tennis requires any thinking. Nothing about any tennis strategy has any sort of originality to it. This is why you're going to see thread titles that seem like rehashes of existing ideas, or, indeed, older threads - it's inevitable in a sport with so little to actually talk about strategy-wise.

There are basically two strategies;

1). Ball-bash.
2). Grind.

Everything is a variation on those two.

Rubbish. Tennis styles are not as black and white as that. Murray for instance is a tennis chameleon and adjusts his game to his opponent's weaknesses. (Or a style that would offer him a better chance of victory)

You can't pigeon whole a player as either a ball basher or a grinder, this jus goes to show how superficial your understanding of tennis is. You don't observe matches very well @ all... rather more, it would seem, you look @ the obvious things that only stick out and seek "labels" for the opponent's styles.

PhrygianDominant
09-11-2012, 01:43 PM
I need someone new to hate. Any suggestions? Berdych still bugs me, but he could be next to break through.

By all means continue to hate Berdych. I will announce possible future candidates as they arise.

sp1derman
09-11-2012, 01:44 PM
now this ^ is getting interesting

kragster
09-11-2012, 02:21 PM
Eh...
I don't agree. They are very similar, but I don't think Djokovic is more talented. Or Murray is a lesser version of Djokovic for that matter. Djokovic has had an easier career than Murray. Won his first grand slam against Tsonga, and all credit to him made good on it....3 years later.

Here's my breakdown,

1st Serve: Murray
2nd Serve: Djokovic

Forehand: Equal. Djokovic has a better hit in general, but Murray can flatten his out, djokovic can't, and murray can supplay pace on his own, Djokovic has trouble here

Backhand: Equal. Djokovic is better up the line, but Murray has that instant offense backhand, noone can hurt him there, and he has a better slice.

Volleys: Murray, but it's close.

Overhead: Equal

Movement: Djokovic, but only because he uses it more offensively. Also Djokovic has better balance and slides. Murray is faster in raw foot speed, kids got some wheels.

Mental: Djokovic, but 2011 proved that. He had three years from 2008 to get into multiple slams. I bet Murray wins something a LOT sooner than that, then we'll see what the score is.

Murray: 5
Djokovic: 6

All said and done, Murray is right there, but that mental edge Djokovic had all last year goes a long way. That's my 2 cents.


I agree with the overall result but would like to make some corrections.

a) I think Djoker's FH (based on past history at least) has been a far far bigger weapon than Murray's. In 2007-2008 Djokers FH was considered the 3rd best in the sport by many commentators (after Fed/nadal). Even now, I would put Djoker's FH well ahead of Murray's.

b) Murray has way better touch than Djoker. That should be included as a category. This includes not just volleys but drop shots and the like.

So overall

BH: Equal
FH : Djokovic
Serve: Equal
Movement: Equal
Touch: Murray
Mental: Djokovic (based on their past results not just these last 3 months)

Basically not much to choose between the two, both are very complete players. I think Murray has room to improve on his 1st serve % and Djoker has room to improve on his touch game.

NJ1
09-11-2012, 02:25 PM
I agree with the overall result but would like to make some corrections.

a) I think Djoker's FH (based on past history at least) has been a far far bigger weapon than Murray's. In 2007-2008 Djokers FH was considered the 3rd best in the sport by many commentators (after Fed/nadal). Even now, I would put Djoker's FH well ahead of Murray's.

b) Murray has way better touch than Djoker. That should be included as a category. This includes not just volleys but drop shots and the like.

So overall

BH: Equal
FH : Djokovic
Serve: Equal
Movement: Equal
Touch: Murray
Mental: Djokovic (based on their past results not just these last 3 months)

Basically not much to choose between the two, both are very complete players. I think Murray has room to improve on his 1st serve % and Djoker has room to improve on his touch game.

Agree with the above.

Cesc Fabregas
09-11-2012, 02:29 PM
Serve- Djokovic. Better first serve percentage and a better 2nd serve
Forehand- Clearly Djokovic here
Backhand- Slight edge to Murray
Return- Slight edge to Murray
Net- Murray but Djokovic braver and more willing to come foward
Movement- Djokovic slightly

Tennis_Maestro
09-11-2012, 02:32 PM
I thought the thread was based on styles as opposed to a comparison between how good each player's individual strokes were.

Anyhow....

First serve: Murray.
Second serve: Djokovic by a million miles, no contest, Murray's second serve has always been his kryptonite.
Forehand: Murray.
Backhand. Ever so close, but for variation and control, Djoker has got to this one here.
Lob: Muzza, country mile.
Net play: Muzza
Defence: Djoker
Return of serve: Djoker
Movement: Same as defence more or less, Djoker by a mile.

tank_job
09-11-2012, 02:34 PM
I agree with the overall result but would like to make some corrections.

a) I think Djoker's FH (based on past history at least) has been a far far bigger weapon than Murray's. In 2007-2008 Djokers FH was considered the 3rd best in the sport by many commentators (after Fed/nadal). Even now, I would put Djoker's FH well ahead of Murray's.

b) Murray has way better touch than Djoker. That should be included as a category. This includes not just volleys but drop shots and the like.

So overall

BH: Equal
FH : Djokovic
Serve: Equal
Movement: Equal
Touch: Murray
Mental: Djokovic (based on their past results not just these last 3 months)

Basically not much to choose between the two, both are very complete players. I think Murray has room to improve on his 1st serve % and Djoker has room to improve on his touch game.

Touch is widely regarded as innate, though.

Murray scores highly on some of those 'innate' skills, such as anticipation, volleys, touch, point-construction...etc... You'd almost think he has more potential than Djokovic (who, by comparison is more workmanlike) as a result.

TennisBatman
09-11-2012, 02:40 PM
Murray has better smarts and discipline...

Djokovic has better raw power and aggressiveness...

Tennis_Maestro
09-11-2012, 02:44 PM
Murray has better smarts and discipline...

Djokovic has better raw power and aggressiveness...

Funny that. I actually feel the opposite. For me Djokovic has always been the smartest player on a tennis court and Murray has always possessed an ability to be effective whilst being more aggressive. Don't jus base it on yesterday's match.

sonicare
09-11-2012, 03:24 PM
Murrays's FH better than djokovic?

WTF am I reading

Murray's FH is 2nd or 3rd worst in the top 10. some of you guys are frankly ridiculous and jumping on the bandwagon yet again. pathetic

oh and djokovic's return is also in a different league to murrays and his bh is better too because he changes direction much better.

Murray does have better touch and volleys though.

TheF1Bob
09-11-2012, 03:27 PM
Don't be fooled by Noles lack of power, he has plenty of it but...

Never showcases it unless match points down.

mellowyellow
09-11-2012, 05:00 PM
Serve- Djokovic. Better first serve percentage and a better 2nd serve
Forehand- Clearly Djokovic here
Backhand- Slight edge to Murray
Return- Slight edge to Murray
Net- Murray but Djokovic braver and more willing to come foward
Movement- Djokovic slightly

This probably the best and most realistic. Murray net/touch is good, but against the best and in the important matches he overuses it to his own detriment so I would say equal. I would also say the return is splitting hairs. In the week in and week out this is clearly where Djoko is dominant over AM. With all of the "fake" pains I wonder if he actually is a durable enough player to get multiple slams and have a great career when all said and done. I would also point out that Murray has had mostly opportunist wins in his career from the first Fed win in cincy to the 2012 USO. That merely being a realist, he has yet to really take the 2 of top 4 players in any one big tourney or be the one to buck the scheduling to win with the Sat night Semi Sun Final in a Masters.

PhrygianDominant
09-12-2012, 03:02 AM
Murrays's FH better than djokovic?

WTF am I reading

Murray's FH is 2nd or 3rd worst in the top 10. some of you guys are frankly ridiculous and jumping on the bandwagon yet again. pathetic

oh and djokovic's return is also in a different league to murrays and his bh is better too because he changes direction much better.

Murray does have better touch and volleys though.

First, there is no bandwagon, I have always been a fan.

Second, I made my post about the differences in their forehands quite clear.

Yes I agree that Murray has one of the worst forehands in the top ten, but it is also the joke's weaker wing. Djokovic doesn't generate pace on his own very well on that wing, unless the ball is quite high in his strike zone. He can't flatten it out. He also has an exaggerated back swing that allows him to get jammed pretty often.

Murray has an incosistent forehand, but in the USO final and also the semifinal at the AO Murray has shown a much improved forehand that allows him to step in and dictate, and I think it looks great. His problems on that wing are more mental than anything else at this point.

I would say Djokovic is better at teeing off on second serves, but Murray neutralizes first serves a bit better.

Murray has touch to spare, and much better volleys, shame he doesn't get into net more to finish points.

PhrygianDominant
09-12-2012, 03:11 AM
Here is my edited breakdown to encompass the discussion so far

1st Serve: Murray
2nd Serve: Djokovic

1st serve return: Murray
2nd serve return: Djokovic

Forehand: Djokovic, even though Murray is gaining on him in this department. Djokovic has a better hit in general, but Murray can flatten his out, djokovic can't, and murray can supplay pace on his own, Djokovic has trouble here, we'll see how Murray develops his offensive game.

Backhand: Equal. Djokovic is better up the line, but Murray has that instant offense backhand, noone can hurt him there, and he has a better slice.

Volleys: Murray, should com to to the net more but he doesn't.

Overhead: Equal

Movement: Djokovic, but only because he uses it more offensively. Also Djokovic has better balance and slides. Murray is faster in raw foot speed, kids got some wheels.

Touch Shots: Murray, very natural sublte hands.

Mental: Djokovic, but 2011 proved that. He had three years from 2008 to get into multiple slams. I bet Murray wins something a LOT sooner than that, then we'll see what the score is.


All said and done, Murray is right there, but that mental edge Djokovic had all last year goes a long way. That's my 2 cents.

syc23
09-12-2012, 03:15 AM
They are very similar but the only stat that matters is who gets more Ws and post Olympics, it's 2-0 Murray.

Murray will gain more in the mental department from the USO win so let's see how Murray 2.0 v Nole 2.0 will match up going forward.

Paul Murphy
09-12-2012, 04:04 AM
Forehand - Djokovic (Murray needs to hit down the line more often - he's very reluctant to do so).

Backhand - Djokovic but it's close.

Return - tie.

Serve - Djokovic (mainly due to second delivery).

Variety - Murray by considerable margin.

Movement - tie.

DeShaun
09-12-2012, 04:16 AM
Murrays's FH better than djokovic?

WTF am I reading

Murray's FH is 2nd or 3rd worst in the top 10. some of you guys are frankly ridiculous and jumping on the bandwagon yet again. pathetic

oh and djokovic's return is also in a different league to murrays and his bh is better too because he changes direction much better.

Murray does have better touch and volleys though.

You still would have to explain why Murray got the better of Nole in forehand-to-forehand exchanges in the USO final which he did.