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View Full Version : Rank the top 4 (bar Federer) in serving


dangalak
09-17-2012, 06:44 PM
Federer is obviously better than the other 3. But the rest, I'm not sure.

Personally, I feel it's like Djokovic > Murray > Nadal.

monfed
09-17-2012, 06:46 PM
FS-
Murray>Djokovic>Ralph

SS-
Djokovic>Ralph>Murray

papertank
09-17-2012, 07:04 PM
Overall djokovic has by far the best serve out of the three. Murray's first is as powerful but not near as consistant as djokovic's. Murray has an awful second serve. Nadal's serve does it's job in the way that it is very consistant, but it is easily attacked and not a weapon. Djokovic has a great first serve and second serve most of the time, so he clearly wins here.

Overall: 1. Djokovic 2. Nadal 3. Murray

1st serve: 1. Djokovic 2. Murray 3. Nadal

Second: 1. Djokovic 2. Nadal 3. Murray

Mighty Matteo
09-17-2012, 07:14 PM
i think nadal's is very underrated because of the lefty slice component. probably djokovic's is slightly better, but Nadal's is not that far behind.

MichaelNadal
09-17-2012, 07:17 PM
i think nadal's is very underrated because of the lefty slice component. probably djokovic's is slightly better, but Nadal's is not that far behind.

All the players talk about how underestimated Nadal's serve is. It has so much action and spin on it and he places it really well.

dangalak
09-17-2012, 07:22 PM
Overall djokovic has by far the best serve out of the three. Murray's first is as powerful but not near as consistant as djokovic's. Murray has an awful second serve. Nadal's serve does it's job in the way that it is very consistant, but it is easily attacked and not a weapon. Djokovic has a great first serve and second serve most of the time, so he clearly wins here.

:lol:

Djokovic would pay good money to have a powerful serve like Murray.

MichaelNadal
09-17-2012, 07:23 PM
:lol:

Djokovic would pay good money to have a powerful serve like Murray.

?? Murray has a huge first serve when he goes for it.

dangalak
09-17-2012, 07:25 PM
Exactly. His first serve is equal to Djokovic because he hits it harder but it goes in less often.

Second serve isn't close though.

Cup8489
09-17-2012, 07:33 PM
Nadal's first serve should be ahead of Djokovic, IMO.

Xizel
09-17-2012, 07:42 PM
Nadal's first serve should be ahead of Djokovic, IMO.

I agree. Nadal's serve is underrated because Djokovic regularly neutralizes it, but against so many other players, it sets up so many perfect short combos.

Sabratha
09-17-2012, 07:55 PM
Djokovic > Murray > Nadal.

Dreamcastin
09-17-2012, 08:11 PM
ill take djoker on fast and nadal on slower surfaces. murrays second serve would be a liability in the wta.

cc0509
09-17-2012, 08:23 PM
Nadal's first serve should be ahead of Djokovic, IMO.

For sure. Nadal has a better first serve than Djokovic's on all surfaces and the stats show that fact (even on HC in Djokovic's best year, 2011, Nadal had the better 1st serve stats.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Matchfacts/Matchfacts-List.aspx?c=1&s=0&y=2011

I would say for first serve it is Nadal > Djokovic> Murray, but I think Murray's first serve is now better than Djokovic's.

TennisLovaLova
09-17-2012, 11:55 PM
Nadal's serve in USO'10 was something

Russeljones
09-18-2012, 01:39 AM
Federer is obviously better than the other 3. But the rest, I'm not sure.

Personally, I feel it's like Djokovic > Murray > Nadal.

Nadal > Djokovic > Murray

We haven't seen Murray serve well consistently throughout a big tournament over a longer time period. Something the other 3 have done for entire seasons in their careers thusfar.

I have chosen Nadal as best serve because without the speed he has exceptional placement and reliability, which in my opinion edges Novak and Andy's serves.

Bobby Jr
09-18-2012, 02:54 AM
I am amazed there have been 15 posts in this thread and we're yet to have some muppet who clearly knows nothing about tennis claim that Djokovic or Nadal has a better serve than Federer.

What is going on Talk Tennis?

syke
09-18-2012, 03:36 AM
Rosol in Nadal thrashing mode.

cc0509
09-18-2012, 03:44 AM
Anyone who doesn't consider Nadal's FS the worst must be functionally ********.:lol:

People should've gotten by now that points won on FS, as well as other statistics are utterly pointless in determining true serving ability.

It is not the worst, you are obviously not paying attention and first serve stats are far from useless.

UKTennis
09-18-2012, 03:51 AM
It's actually a good question. You could put them in any order I think. Murray has the weakest second serve, but I think he has the strongest first serve. Nadal has the best second serve, but arguably the weakest first serve, and Djokovic is in the middle of them both.

AnotherTennisProdigy
09-18-2012, 04:31 AM
When Murray's serve is above 70%: Murray>Nadal>Djokovic
When Murray's serve isn't: Nadal>Djokovic>Murray

IMO Djokovic's serve is a little overrated. It's a good serve that gets more aces than double faults, but I think Nadal's lefty spin is harder to deal with.

Edit: BTW is it only first serve or both first and second? Cause Murray's second serve sucks.

tennis_pro
09-18-2012, 04:58 AM
Nadal's serve in USO'10 was something

Shouldn't we rank their serves on average? That way Federer's serve at the 2007 US Open would be miles ahead of anyone of today.

Murray - probably has the best serve of the 3 but also the lowest 1st serve %, can hit a bomb when BP down, usually on the ad court.
Nadal - very underrated serve, especially when going out wide, sets up his big forehand beautifully, also hits high 1st serve %
Djokovic - everything he does with his serve is on a 5-6/10 level, that includes consistency, slice, kick, reliable, doesn't break down often

TheFifthSet
09-18-2012, 05:07 AM
For sure. Nadal has a better first serve than Djokovic's on all surfaces and the stats show that fact (even on HC in Djokovic's best year, 2011, Nadal had the better 1st serve stats.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Matchfacts/Matchfacts-List.aspx?c=1&s=0&y=2011

I would say for first serve it is Nadal > Djokovic> Murray, but I think Murray's first serve is now better than Djokovic's.

The link you posted showed first serve percentage, not first serve points won in 2011. In 2011 Nadal won 70% of his first serve points on HC, Novak won 73%. On all surfaces it was 74% to 71% for Novak, and he won 86% of his service games to Nadal's 83%, and this year it is 88%-87% for Nadal.

In terms of serve as a pure shot, I would rate their first serves

1. Murray
2. Djokovic
3. Nadal

and second serve Djokovic/Nadal is debatable, with Murray a DISTANT third.

Overall, I'd say Novak from 2011-2012 (who knows if Nole 2010 will resurface) is the best server of the three, followed by Nadal then Murray. Why is Murray last? Because his second serve is one of the worst in the top 50, and he doesn't get his big first serve in enough. Sure, it's big and he hits aces, but his serve is the least reliable and it reflects in the year-to-year stats too. If Murray ever improves his second serve, it'll be the best of the three by far IMO, and when his serve is on its the best of the pack. But, reliability is important.

pmerk34
09-18-2012, 05:14 AM
Federer is obviously better than the other 3. But the rest, I'm not sure.

Personally, I feel it's like Djokovic > Murray > Nadal.

Ratings aside, for his height at 6'3", lenth and flexibility and his level of skill, Novak has such an average serve. He arms it too much. with a better motion he'd be cracking 130+ all the time.

TheFifthSet
09-18-2012, 05:17 AM
Ratings aside, for his height at 6'3", lenth and flexibility and his level of skill, Novak has such an average serve. He arms it too much. with a better motion he'd be cracking 130+ all the time.

Yup, agreed there. In fact I think they're all underacheivers with their serve.

GoaLaSSo
09-18-2012, 05:48 AM
All of their serves are bad. I hit flat 140 serves on a regular basis and my kick second serves usually come in at about 120 on a good day.





























:twisted:

MurrayMyInspiration
09-18-2012, 06:01 AM
I pick Murray's easily. Second serve is not so important as people think. Good players don't give their oppenents free points on second serves even if the serve is very good. Murray when down break points can hit 130 on T especially on advan side. Murray this year gets lots of aces and a huge amount of forced errors off his big serve. Nole gets some aces but not as many forced errors as he lacks brute force of a Murray serve. Nadal is good but his forehand after serve makes his serve look very impressive. Murray now serves in big matches above 60% consistently so the point of him serving low percentage does not exist anymore for the time being. Therefore I would pick Murray's serve first then Nole, then Nadal.

tennis_pro
09-18-2012, 06:24 AM
I pick Murray's easily.

No s**t! I see no correlation between your name and your pick.

tennis_pro
09-18-2012, 06:27 AM
All of their serves are bad. I hit flat 140 serves on a regular basis and my kick second serves usually come in at about 120 on a good day.

Oh you, Milos!

helloworld
09-18-2012, 06:28 AM
None. I'm not impressed with all of them.

RF20Lennon
09-18-2012, 06:47 AM
In what universe is nole ahead of Rafa in serving?? For many years he averaged more doubles than aces!!! Plus Rafas lefty slider on the deuce court is a killer! But djokovic you can argue on average has a faster serve

smash hit
09-18-2012, 07:06 AM
According to the ATP match facts stats as of 17.09.12, the top 4 are rated as follows:-

1st serve % - N 8th. D 19th. F 24th. M 39th.

1st serve points won - F 4th. N 17th. D 19th. M 25th.

2nd serve points won - F 1st. D 2nd. N 3rd. M 12th.

Service games won - F3rd. N4th D 5th. M 19th.

tennis_pro
09-18-2012, 07:23 AM
According to the ATP match facts stats as of 17.09.12, the top 4 are rated as follows:-

1st serve % - N 8th. D 19th. F 24th. M 39th.

1st serve points won - F 4th. N 17th. D 19th. M 25th.

2nd serve points won - F 1st. D 2nd. N 3rd. M 12th.

Service games won - F3rd. N4th D 5th. M 19th.

Nadal's stats are a bit skewed as he missed the most "uncomfortable" 6 months of a season, the only samples we got are clay and a couple of slow hard court tournament.

GoaLaSSo
09-18-2012, 07:37 AM
According to the ATP match facts stats as of 17.09.12, the top 4 are rated as follows:-

1st serve % - N 8th. D 19th. F 24th. M 39th.

1st serve points won - F 4th. N 17th. D 19th. M 25th.

2nd serve points won - F 1st. D 2nd. N 3rd. M 12th.

Service games won - F3rd. N4th D 5th. M 19th.

I expected murray's to be a bit higher actually. Maybe this has to do with his playstyle after his serve? Or do you guys think it is mostly because of his serving.

smash hit
09-18-2012, 08:11 AM
Nadal's stats are a bit skewed as he missed the most "uncomfortable" 6 months of a season, the only samples we got are clay and a couple of slow hard court tournament.

Which 6 months would those be?

Hood_Man
09-18-2012, 08:51 AM
Nadal's serve in USO'10 was something

It really was, it was like watching a serving machine wearing a Nadal mask :shock: Great performance.

tennis_pro
09-18-2012, 09:05 AM
Which 6 months would those be?

Everything post FO, since I don't expect him to come back this year.

Mortifier
09-18-2012, 09:13 AM
In what universe is nole ahead of Rafa in serving?? For many years he averaged more doubles than aces!!! Plus Rafas lefty slider on the deuce court is a killer! But djokovic you can argue on average has a faster serve

I agree that Nadal's serve has been better for the most part, it's just his last year or so that's been a bit off I think.

...and by the way, isn't the slider to the ad-court? Or am I totally wrong here?

paulorenzo
09-18-2012, 09:44 AM
Ratings aside, for his height at 6'3", lenth and flexibility and his level of skill, Novak has such an average serve. He arms it too much. with a better motion he'd be cracking 130+ all the time.

ironically, djokovic has the most sound service motion of the three. his serve is the most fluid and is without any sudden jerks and hitches. it's efficient and utilizes his whole body, not just the legs, not just the shoulder, not just the hips, but all in unison. that said, he could really utilize more of his legs add more fodder into his kinetic chain. his stance is sort of in between platform and pinpoint, and his right leg doesn't as much as the left. his flexibility in his rotator cuff, though, is impressive. it's a pity he just seems content to brush up at the ball to get the point started at times and just doesn't crank it up as often as murray.

djokovic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP-mufKFM8s&feature=player_detailpage#t=112s

murray, despite having more hitches in his serve and a shorter range of motion in the shoulder, has the more potent first serve. his legs and hips really help him snap into the ball and his almost exaggerated follow through really allows him to go through the contact point on first serves.

murray:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf1DbioKF2E&feature=player_detailpage#t=22s

President
09-18-2012, 11:01 AM
Nadal's serve is underrated and Djokovic's serve is a little overrated IMO. Murray's first serve is a bomb and his second serve is improving, in a few years I have no doubt he'll be a better server than the other two.

Magnetite
09-18-2012, 11:17 AM
Nadal / Djokovic / Murray.

Nadal is clearly the winner of this category if you take his entire career into account. Sure he just starts the point out sometimes, but at least he's not hitting it out, like the other two.

Djokovic 2011 would be the best, but across his career, his serve has been very up and down (more down that up).

Murray has a big first serve with a low %, and lack of placement (compared to the better servers on tour). His second serve is extremely iffy for a guy that good.

Nadal U.S Open 2010 is very good, and better than 2011 Djokovic (it's close though).

Thus,

Nadal, then Djokovic, then Murray. Djokovic and Murray are almost tied. Djokovic recently from 2011 onwards is close to Nadal.