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View Full Version : Whose GOD-MODE level was the most impressive?


Mike Sams
09-28-2012, 07:34 AM
I don't mean just in 1 match but over a series of tournaments, displaying a consistent level of incredible form. For example, Rafael Nadal winning 7-8 straight tournaments over the summer of 2008 or Djokovic winning everything from AO 2011 all the way to Rome, etc. Who impressed you the most, displaying great ability over a period of time in a season?

NDFM
09-28-2012, 07:58 AM
Federer in 2006 (and 2005 although he didn't win 3 majors that year), the only people that beat him that year was nadal (4 wins) and murray (with 1 win). Did nadal win 8 tournaments in the summer of '08 or was it over the whole season? Djokovic's 2011 was pretty impressive.

RF20Lennon
09-28-2012, 07:59 AM
Federer 06 Djokovic 2011

Jackuar
09-28-2012, 08:01 AM
Statistically, it would be McEnroe's God year.

But considering not just the number but the level of play as in quality, the way the player dominated I'd say Federer 2006 and 2007; haven't seen McEnroe play.

Limpinhitter
09-28-2012, 08:44 AM
The Rocket!

zam88
09-28-2012, 08:58 AM
When Nadal blows though the entire clay season without dropping a set or maybe A set... it's friggin' impressive. And he's done it a few times.

Nadal's clay God mode is sick... and when he follows it up with a Wimbledon, it's even sicker.


for longer stretches, you can't beat what Djokavic did in '11, or what Federer did from '04 to '07.

Fed's 237 weeks of god mode will be extremely difficult to repeat

dangalak
09-28-2012, 08:59 AM
Federer's 2005 was ridiculous. Look at the tennis people had to play to beat him.

Clarky21
09-28-2012, 09:05 AM
Fed without a doubt.

Mike Sams
09-28-2012, 09:58 AM
When Nadal blows though the entire clay season without dropping a set or maybe A set... it's friggin' impressive. And he's done it a few times.

Nadal's clay God mode is sick... and when he follows it up with a Wimbledon, it's even sicker.


for longer stretches, you can't beat what Djokavic did in '11, or what Federer did from '04 to '07.

Fed's 237 weeks of god mode will be extremely difficult to repeat

I find Djokovic's god mode more impressive than Federer's. Djokovic smashed an all time great in Nadal countless times in a season even on Nadal's best surface. Federer even despite god mode kept losing on clay on the other hand. Federer basically ruined a potential Djokovic/Nadal RG final. Nadal was mentally at Djokovic's mercy at that period.

NadalAgassi
09-28-2012, 10:01 AM
I would say Nadal in 2008 and 2010 since he was winning vs all opponents on all surfaces, whereas even god mode peak of peaks Federer found himself regularly not winning on clay and regularly losing to Nadal, with only 2 Hamburg titles to show for all his clay efforts from 2004-2007 (2004 when Nadal was irrelevant), and losing 6 of his first 7 matches to a teenaged Nadal.

Nadal in 2008 wins the French Open on clay, wins Wimbledon on grass, wins the Olympics on hards. Nadal in 2010 wins the French Open on clay, wins Wimbledon on grass, wins the U.S Open on hards. Consistently beats Federer, Djokovic, Murray, whoever is on the other side of the side with only occasional defeats. No surface, no opponent, no problem, unlike peak Federer.

As for Djokovic, even 2011 Djokovic lost to 30 year old Federer in a slam and was match points down to lose to him in another.

Cup8489
09-28-2012, 10:02 AM
2005 Federer might have been the highest level of tennis played. Nadal during summer 08 was close, but not quite. Djokovic was close as well, in a different manner.

It's weird b/c federer won only two majors that year, but without a doubt his highest level.

zam88
09-28-2012, 10:03 AM
I find Djokovic's god mode more impressive than Federer's. Djokovic smashed an all time great in Nadal countless times in a season even on Nadal's best surface. Federer even despite god mode kept losing on clay on the other hand. Federer basically ruined a potential Djokovic/Nadal RG final. Nadal was mentally at Djokovic's mercy at that period.


maybe, but Djokavic's god mode lasted about 60 weeks and then he went back to just being extremely good.

Yes Federer did ruin the chance to see that match, and i would have liked to have seen it... but on the flip side Djokavic ruined the chance for me to get to see Fed vs. Nadal at the USO.. TWICE! and i would've really liked to have seen that.


also Federer did what Djokavic '11 did (to a slightly lesser extent) THREE times

NadalAgassi
09-28-2012, 10:07 AM
BTW in fairness to Federer, the Nadal which Federer faced on clay from 2005-2010 was so much better than the Nadal of 2011 on clay it isnt even funny. So in the Federer-Djokovic comparision that isnt entirely fair either. Had peak Federer faced a Nadal struggling with Isner and some other clay bums throught the year on clay, I am sure he would have had more success as well. Meanwhile put Nadal of 2008 Roland Garros up against any version of Djokovic on clay, I most everyone would agree Djokovic will do well to even win a set. That plus Djokovic is just naturally a much worse matchup and challenging opponent for Nadal than Federer is, has always been the case, even before Djokovic 2.0 emerged.

NDFM
09-28-2012, 10:07 AM
Federer's 'god-mode' level is more impressive as he done this over consecutive seasons, nadal and djokovic haven't

The Bawss
09-28-2012, 10:11 AM
BTW in fairness to Federer, the Nadal which Federer faced on clay from 2005-2010 was so much better than the Nadal of 2011 on clay it isnt even funny. So in the Federer-Djokovic comparision that isnt entirely fair either. Had peak Federer faced a Nadal struggling with Isner and some other clay bums throught the year on clay, I am sure he would have had more success as well. Meanwhile put Nadal of 2008 Roland Garros up against any version of Djokovic on clay, I most everyone would agree Djokovic will do well to even win a set. That plus Djokovic is just naturally a much worse matchup and challenging opponent for Nadal than Federer is, has always been the case, even before Djokovic 2.0 emerged.

Good post. I don't think anybody past or present could have beaten Nadal at RG 2008.

Mike Sams
09-28-2012, 10:15 AM
BTW in fairness to Federer, the Nadal which Federer faced on clay from 2005-2010 was so much better than the Nadal of 2011 on clay it isnt even funny. So in the Federer-Djokovic comparision that isnt entirely fair either. Had peak Federer faced a Nadal struggling with Isner and some other clay bums throught the year on clay, I am sure he would have had more success as well. Meanwhile put Nadal of 2008 Roland Garros up against any version of Djokovic on clay, I most everyone would agree Djokovic will do well to even win a set. That plus Djokovic is just naturally a much worse matchup and challenging opponent for Nadal than Federer is, has always been the case, even before Djokovic 2.0 emerged.

Djokovic has been a problem matchup for Nadal on clay even when Nadal played god-mode tennis. Check out Hamburg 2008, Monte Carlo 2009, Madrid 2009, etc. That's before Djokovic even reached his best level and was still shaky mentally.
2011 Djokovic would've been a formidable challenge for any version of Nadal on clay. Djokovic was playing at an almost inhuman level at times.

The-Champ
09-28-2012, 10:15 AM
Federer even despite god mode kept losing on clay on the other hand.

That's because during the peak Federer years he had to play peak Nadal on clay. The Nadal djokovic played is at least 3-4 years past his very best on the surface.

tennis_pro
09-28-2012, 10:16 AM
I would say Nadal in 2008 and 2010 since he was winning vs all opponents on all surfaces, whereas even god mode peak of peaks Federer found himself regularly not winning on clay and regularly losing to Nadal, with only 2 Hamburg titles to show for all his clay efforts from 2004-2007 (2004 when Nadal was irrelevant), and losing 6 of his first 7 matches to a teenaged Nadal.

Nadal in 2008 wins the French Open on clay, wins Wimbledon on grass, wins the Olympics on hards. Nadal in 2010 wins the French Open on clay, wins Wimbledon on grass, wins the U.S Open on hards. Consistently beats Federer, Djokovic, Murray, whoever is on the other side of the side with only occasional defeats. No surface, no opponent, no problem, unlike peak Federer.

As for Djokovic, even 2011 Djokovic lost to 30 year old Federer in a slam and was match points down to lose to him in another.

I wouldn't say Nadal in 2010 was in godmode, at least not on 2/3 surfaces, he "just" won the biggest tournaments but wasn't even close to dominating it. He didn't do better than Federer in any of 2004-2007 as we knew Federer would take the biggest tournaments from the beginning (who cares he lost to Canas, baby Murray or Nalbandian - they would never beat him in a slam at the time) Nadal is a good candidate for the "player to dominate a surface the most" thread but not in the general pwnage.

From his 2008 run, the most impressive, at least IMO, was his win over Djokovic at the Olympics. We can obviously understand his domination on clay and his Wimbledon win (from a time perspective looking how Fed's level dropped a lot compared to even 2007 while Nadal stayed the same or marginally improved), but those wins on hard courts are what made the whole streak impressive.

To answer the question - I'd pick Djokovic in the first half of 2011. I mean the guy didn't f*** with nobody, he was beating everyone HANDILY on every surface. And Federer had to play arguably his best match of 2011 to beat Novak and cool him down a bit.

NadalAgassi
09-28-2012, 10:18 AM
Djokovic has been a problem matchup for Nadal on clay even when Nadal played god-mode tennis. Check out Hamburg 2008, Monte Carlo 2009, Madrid 2009, etc. That's before Djokovic even reached his best level and was still shaky mentally.
2011 Djokovic would've been a formidable challenge for any version of Nadal on clay. Djokovic was playing at an almost inhuman level at times.

In the end Federer's career H2H with Nadal on clay is equal to Djokovic's, this despite that we admit Djokovic was a "worse matchup". This hardly rates in Djokovic's favor in the comparision. Especialy when clay is Federer's worst surface and one of Djokovic's best.

As others have said though Federer's god mode lasted 4 years. Nadal sparatically came and went for a few years, and he seemed to burn himself out even reaching it. Djokovic's lasted 9 months, possibly to never return again. That is the biggest advantage Federer has over the other two.

tennis_pro
09-28-2012, 10:24 AM
I don't mean just in 1 match but over a series of tournaments, displaying a consistent level of incredible form. For example, Rafael Nadal winning 7-8 straight tournaments over the summer of 2008 or Djokovic winning everything from AO 2011 all the way to Rome, etc. Who impressed you the most, displaying great ability over a period of time in a season?

We need a more specific time frame to answer the question. F.e.:

- 2 weeks - probably goes to Nalbandian who beat Federer (twice), Nadal (twice and pwnage both times), Djokovic and a couple of other top 10 players to win Madrid/Paris back to back in 2007

- 4 weeks - Roddick getting hot in the North America hard court season in 2003 - when he took Canada/Cincinnati/US Open scoring some very impressive wins including 1 against his nemesis Federer (the fresh Wimbledon champion), there are other candidates like Rafter in 1998 (same part in the season)

- 3 months - Nadal in mid 2008 - owned clay, owned grass, and had a couple of very good wins on hard courts

- 6 months - probably Djokovic, he went insnane in the first half of 2011

- 1 year - Federer in 2005 - *bows to Cup8489* - the highest level of tennis one could play, Fed was flawless

- 4/5 years - Federer in 2003/2004 - 2007 - what can I say? The most extended period of GOATness I have ever witnessed

shakes1975
09-28-2012, 10:26 AM
I don't mean just in 1 match but over a series of tournaments, displaying a consistent level of incredible form. For example, Rafael Nadal winning 7-8 straight tournaments over the summer of 2008 or Djokovic winning everything from AO 2011 all the way to Rome, etc. Who impressed you the most, displaying great ability over a period of time in a season?

Pete Sampras between Wim 1999 and until he had his back injury. He was astounding. He was a lock for the USO that yr. IMO, nobody was good enough to take him down had he played that USO - not Agassi nor anybody else.

Prisoner of Birth
09-28-2012, 10:52 AM
We need a more specific time frame to answer the question. F.e.:

- 2 weeks - probably goes to Nalbandian who beat Federer (twice), Nadal (twice and pwnage both times), Djokovic and a couple of other top 10 players to win Madrid/Paris back to back in 2007

- 4 weeks - Roddick getting hot in the North America hard court season in 2003 - when he took Canada/Cincinnati/US Open scoring some very impressive wins including 1 against his nemesis Federer (the fresh Wimbledon champion), there are other candidates like Rafter in 1998 (same part in the season)

- 3 months - Nadal in mid 2008 - owned clay, owned grass, and had a couple of very good wins on hard courts

- 6 months - probably Djokovic, he went insnane in the first half of 2011

- 1 year - Federer in 2005 - *bows to Cup8489* - the highest level of tennis one could play, Fed was flawless

- 4/5 years - Federer in 2003/2004 - 2007 - what can I say? The most extended period of GOATness I have ever witnessed

This post renders the rest redundant. Good job, sir.

The-Champ
09-28-2012, 10:53 AM
Djokovic has been a problem matchup for Nadal on clay even when Nadal played god-mode tennis. Check out Hamburg 2008, Monte Carlo 2009, Madrid 2009, etc. That's before Djokovic even reached his best level and was still shaky mentally.

And how many sets did he win against Peak Nadal at the FO? ZERO. Peak Fed bagelled peak Nadal and pushed him hard in other matches during Rafa's best playing level years on the surface. Those results are more impressive than anything peak djokovic have managed against this slow version of Nadal lol :D And yes, peak Federer would certainly have beaten the FO-Nadal of 2010-2012.

Prisoner of Birth
09-28-2012, 10:56 AM
And how many sets did he win against Peak Nadal at the FO? ZERO. Peak Fed bagelled peak Nadal and pushed him hard in other matches during Rafa's best playing level years on the surface. Those results are more impressive than anything peak djokovic have managed against this slow version of Nadal lol :D And yes, peak Federer would certainly have beaten the FO-Nadal of 2010-2012.

No way any version of Federer would've beaten 2010's Nadal at the FO. 2011, sure.

The-Champ
09-28-2012, 11:05 AM
No way any version of Federer would've beaten 2010's Nadal at the FO. 2011, sure.

2006 version of Federer would destroy any version of Nadal post 2008 on clay. I'm a huge Rafa's fan btw, but Federer was nuts that year on the surface.

BauerAlmeida
09-28-2012, 11:18 AM
1-Djokovic 2011 January-April
2-Federer 2005 Since Miami/Iw untill USO
3-Nalbandian late 2007
4-Federer 2nd half 2006-AO 2007
5-Agassi RG/Wimbledon 1999
6-Safin late 2004, early 2005

Agassifan
09-28-2012, 11:23 AM
Nadal on Clay. Fed over 3 years on every surface (except when playing Nadal on clay).

The Bawss
09-28-2012, 11:32 AM
There is only one god mode. Federer 2006 DEFINED god mode. Any other level of tennis can merely be expressed as a percentage of Federer's god mode (%FGM)

vive le beau jeu !
09-28-2012, 11:42 AM
5-Agassi RG/Wimbledon 1999
then sampras' 1999 summer (from wimbledon until his retirement against spadea) was kinda "god's daddy mode". ;)

agassi wasn't in god mode at all at RG 1999... he struggled against several opponents.

stringertom
09-28-2012, 12:09 PM
James Scott Connors' 1974 season was very much God-mode...99-4 with 3 majors and 15 total titles. In fact, he was looking pretty good in early '75 until The Graceful One took him out in the Wimby final in the biggest upset of our sport's history. Orantes and Newk followed suit later that year and his aura of invincibility dwindled. Still, he was a pretty tough "out" in any tourney on any surface for the next decade.

Mike Sams
09-28-2012, 12:09 PM
2006 version of Federer would destroy any version of Nadal post 2008 on clay. I'm a huge Rafa's fan btw, but Federer was nuts that year on the surface.

Federer would never have beaten Nadal at RG. What are you smoking??? Federer was in the form of his life in 2011 RG and still lost to a lackluster Nadal.

Prisoner of Birth
09-28-2012, 12:26 PM
Federer would never have beaten Nadal at RG. What are you smoking??? Federer was in the form of his life in 2011 RG and still lost to a lackluster Nadal.

No he wasn't. He was just in-form. 2006 Federer would straight-set 2011 Federer on all surfaces.

Mike Sams
09-28-2012, 12:39 PM
There is only one god mode. Federer 2006 DEFINED god mode. Any other level of tennis can merely be expressed as a percentage of Federer's god mode (%FGM)

What about Sod Mode? Soderling RG 2009 4th round where everything is coming at rocket speed and going into the court? :lol: We saw another glimpse of Sod Mode the following year at RG in the QF. Both Nadal and Federer witnessed Sod Mode first hand!

Mainad
09-28-2012, 12:45 PM
No he wasn't. He was just in-form. 2006 Federer would straight-set 2011 Federer on all surfaces.

Am I the only one who thinks it a bit odd and surreal to talk about the same player playing against himself at different points of his career?? :x

The-Champ
09-28-2012, 12:47 PM
Federer would never have beaten Nadal at RG. What are you smoking??? Federer was in the form of his life in 2011 RG and still lost to a lackluster Nadal.


That's because you started watching tennis last year. Seriously, go see a doctor :D

Prisoner of Birth
09-28-2012, 12:56 PM
Am I the only one who thinks it a bit odd and surreal to talk about the same player playing against himself at different points of his career?? :x

:-D Sorry, I could've made my point in a more elegant way I guess.

Mike Sams
09-28-2012, 01:00 PM
That's because you started watching tennis last year. Seriously, go see a doctor :D

Federer's 2011 RG level was exceptional.

Prisoner of Birth
09-28-2012, 01:02 PM
Federer's 2011 RG level was exceptional.

Exceptional for his age. Not for Roger Federer.

Sid_Vicious
09-28-2012, 01:13 PM
1-Djokovic 2011 January-April
2-Federer 2005 Since Miami/Iw untill USO
3-Nalbandian late 2007
4-Federer 2nd half 2006-AO 2007
5-Agassi RG/Wimbledon 1999
6-Safin late 2004, early 2005

ROFL. Yeah, okay.

Biscuitmcgriddleson
09-28-2012, 01:37 PM
2006 Federer without a doubt in my mind. 2005 was very close also.

BauerAlmeida
09-28-2012, 01:46 PM
then sampras' 1999 summer (from wimbledon until his retirement against spadea) was kinda "god's daddy mode". ;)

agassi wasn't in god mode at all at RG 1999... he struggled against several opponents.

He clearly played better in other tournamentes during his career. But coming back from 141 in the world to win the GS he was missing was epic. He played great anyway except the first two sets against Medvedev. Great matches against Clement, Squillari, Hrbaty and Moya. On Wimbledon he played much better but Sampras was a beast in the final. And in the USO he played awesome, but I forgot to include it. We could include AO too even. He went 27-1 in GS matches that year, only losing to Sampras in Wimbledon.

RF-17-GOAT
09-28-2012, 02:36 PM
Federer's ofcourse.

vive le beau jeu !
09-28-2012, 02:46 PM
He clearly played better in other tournamentes during his career. But coming back from 141 in the world to win the GS he was missing was epic. He played great anyway except the first two sets against Medvedev. Great matches against Clement, Squillari, Hrbaty and Moya. On Wimbledon he played much better but Sampras was a beast in the final. And in the USO he played awesome, but I forgot to include it. We could include AO too even. He went 27-1 in GS matches that year, only losing to Sampras in Wimbledon.
he lost to vince ain't afraid of ya spadea (in the 4th round) at the AO ! ;)

but i guess you were thinking on the next AO... his 4th straight slam final, winning 3 of them, which was indeed a great achievement.
... as was coming back from #141, but i don't think it really corresponds with what people mean with "god mode" (sounds more like a "resurrected jesus mode", in fact). ;)

okdude1992
09-28-2012, 03:00 PM
2006 version of Federer would destroy any version of Nadal post 2008 on clay. I'm a huge Rafa's fan btw, but Federer was nuts that year on the surface.

You realize we are talking about Nadal. On clay...

The guy has 1 RG loss EVER and has a huge mental advantage (plus matchup issues) against Federer. Federer in 06 may have played great but what happened when he ran into Nadal? There's no way Federer ever beats Nadal at the French Open, unless Nadal is well below par.

Did you even watch FO 2011? Nadal was completely off, and Federer was playing great, yet even with all the chances he had he still won exactly 1 set. Federer has NEVER won more than a set against Nadal at RG.

But your confident that 06 Federer would somehow be able to "dominate" his biggest rival on his worst surface? Not even beat, but "dominate"?? Totally delusional.

THUNDERVOLLEY
09-28-2012, 03:22 PM
The Rocket!

Quoted for truth.

WhiskeyEE
09-28-2012, 03:35 PM
I agree with 2005 Fed. He lost to Safin at the AO who was also playing god mode. That match is the highest level of tennis (overall from 2 players) I've ever seen.

Prisoner of Birth
09-28-2012, 03:51 PM
I agree with 2005 Fed. He lost to Safin at the AO who was also playing god mode. That match is the highest level of tennis (overall from 2 players) I've ever seen.

Yes, that match, for me, is of higher quality than any Sampras-Agassi, Federer-Nadal, Borg-McEnroe match. God-mode versus God-mode.

90's Clay
09-28-2012, 03:52 PM
1.Nadal-French Open-USO 2010. 3 straight slams on 3 different surfaces. Hasn't been done in a gazillion years
2. Fed Wimbledon-AO 2006-2007
3. Djoker- Jan-May 2011


At least for current guys..


Sampras wimbledon 99 level to the YEC (aside from missing the USO with injuries that year) was completely SICK

NadalAgassi
09-28-2012, 04:20 PM
Sampras wimbledon 99 level to the YEC (aside from missing the USO with injuries that year) was completely SICK

Yes I agree. I thought the thread was just about current players, but I would rate that version of Sampras, or the one from January 1994-July 1994, above all of them.

BauerAlmeida
09-28-2012, 04:26 PM
I agree with 2005 Fed. He lost to Safin at the AO who was also playing god mode. That match is the highest level of tennis (overall from 2 players) I've ever seen.

Yes, that match, for me, is of higher quality than any Sampras-Agassi, Federer-Nadal, Borg-McEnroe match. God-mode versus God-mode.

Totally, we will never see something like that in years. The level of epicness (?)was surreal. Specially that 4th set tie-break.

Prisoner of Birth
09-28-2012, 04:28 PM
1.Nadal-French Open-USO 2010. 3 straight slams on 3 different surfaces. Hasn't been done in a gazillion years
2. Fed Wimbledon-AO 2006-2007
3. Djoker- Jan-May 2011


At least for current guys..


Sampras wimbledon 99 level to the YEC (aside from missing the USO with injuries that year) was completely SICK

I think it's never been done, not in a gazillion years.

90's Clay
09-28-2012, 04:47 PM
I think it's never been done, not in a gazillion years.

Laver did it twice.. I think Budge did it as well

90's Clay
09-28-2012, 04:50 PM
Yes I agree. I thought the thread was just about current players, but I would rate that version of Sampras, or the one from January 1994-July 1994, above all of them.

Yea that was probably the highest level Ive ever seen.. Or at least witnessed first hand.. I'm sure Laver's 1969 Level all year has to account for something but sadly I didn't get to witness that.. Nor none or Pancho's work on the tennis court.

I don't think I will ever see that type of level like I saw from Sampras.. He was zoning and just bullying guys during that time.. He wouldn't even allow anyone to get into a rally with him..

Fed's AO 2007 level and Nadals 2008 French Open level deserves some praise here as well. I don't know if it measures up with Pete's zoning, but they should be up there

Prisoner of Birth
09-28-2012, 04:56 PM
Laver did it twice.. I think Budge did it as well

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think hardcourts existed back then, did they? I thought 3 of the Slams were on Grass.

nethawkwenatchee
09-28-2012, 05:04 PM
He clearly played better in other tournamentes during his career. But coming back from 141 in the world to win the GS he was missing was epic. He played great anyway except the first two sets against Medvedev. Great matches against Clement, Squillari, Hrbaty and Moya. On Wimbledon he played much better but Sampras was a beast in the final. And in the USO he played awesome, but I forgot to include it. We could include AO too even. He went 27-1 in GS matches that year, only losing to Sampras in Wimbledon.

he lost to vince ain't afraid of ya spadea (in the 4th round) at the AO ! ;)

but i guess you were thinking on the next AO... his 4th straight slam final, winning 3 of them, which was indeed a great achievement.
... as was coming back from #141, but i don't think it really corresponds with what people mean with "god mode" (sounds more like a "resurrected jesus mode", in fact). ;)

Speaking of the Australian Open: Agassi hadn't lost a set up until his run in with Spadea (so he was playing well)

90's Clay
09-28-2012, 05:04 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think hardcourts existed back then, did they? I thought 3 of the Slams were on Grass.

In terms of the surface.. Yes I dont think anyone has done it.. I know Wilander won 3 in 1988 but not sure of the 3 slams.. Too lazy to look. ROFL

oy vey
09-28-2012, 06:27 PM
I find Djokovic's god mode more impressive than Federer's.

Murray said in an interview to Charlie Rose that Novak had the best season in history, for all it's worth.

MTF07
09-28-2012, 07:02 PM
Yea that was probably the highest level Ive ever seen.. Or at least witnessed first hand.. I'm sure Laver's 1969 Level all year has to account for something but sadly I didn't get to witness that.. Nor none or Pancho's work on the tennis court.

I don't think I will ever see that type of level like I saw from Sampras.. He was zoning and just bullying guys during that time.. He wouldn't even allow anyone to get into a rally with him..

Fed's AO 2007 level and Nadals 2008 French Open level deserves some praise here as well. I don't know if it measures up with Pete's zoning, but they should be up there

Sampras never won a slam without dropping or set or really came close to it. Federer was never threatened at 07 AO and Nadal at a couple RG's.

Fed 07 AO > any version of Sampras

Zarfot Z
09-28-2012, 09:17 PM
Australian Open 2006 Men's Semifinal Between Federer and Roddick, 3rd Set

Best set played by anyone in tennis history.

piece
09-28-2012, 09:18 PM
1.Nadal-French Open-USO 2010. 3 straight slams on 3 different surfaces. Hasn't been done in a gazillion years
2. Fed Wimbledon-AO 2006-2007
3. Djoker- Jan-May 2011


At least for current guys..


Sampras wimbledon 99 level to the YEC (aside from missing the USO with injuries that year) was completely SICK

The bold would be my pick. His backhand was at its very best, forehand and movement as good as ever, serve strong, and - the standout for me - his shotmaking was more consistently brilliant than I've seen it before or since. Best level of tennis (with the results to back it up) that I've seen for a ~6 month period. 8 tournament wins (10 if you go from Halle 2006 to Dubai 2007), including 3 slams and the YEC.

Nathaniel_Near
09-28-2012, 09:50 PM
Nadal's 2010 run is being badly overrated. His 2008 run was far more impressive and his pure standard of play was higher.

BauerAlmeida
09-28-2012, 10:14 PM
Australian Open 2006 Men's Semifinal Between Federer and Roddick, 3rd Set

Best set played by anyone in tennis history.

2007 would be. And I think his best set there was the second one (6-4 6-0 6-2 it was).

Zarfot Z
09-28-2012, 10:19 PM
2007 would be. And I think his best set there was the second one (6-4 6-0 6-2 it was).

Link?

10chars

BauerAlmeida
09-28-2012, 10:23 PM
Link?

10chars

This is the match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z24imRYGL8


This is the second set only: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4BRktytaS4

Apun94
09-29-2012, 02:22 AM
I don't mean just in 1 match but over a series of tournaments, displaying a consistent level of incredible form. For example, Rafael Nadal winning 7-8 straight tournaments over the summer of 2008 or Djokovic winning everything from AO 2011 all the way to Rome, etc. Who impressed you the most, displaying great ability over a period of time in a season?

Have to say Djokovic. His '11 season had NO weakness, honestly. Fed always had a BH problem and Nadal exploited that. Nole almost had no weakness in 2011 and if he played like that in 2012, he wudve destroyed Fed at Wimby, we all know that. However, Nole's level was always going to be more difficult to sustain because of how physical it is.
Fed was actually really lucky in the 04-07 years as the surface was suited to his game (that was apparent because he seldom won on clay whereas Nadal and Nole can win even on their weaker surfaces). Also, his opponents were joke compared to today's Nadal, Nole and Murray. Plus we have Delpo, Tsonga, Berdych and Ferrer (who is great on clay).
Fed has won only 5 GS since these players have arrived (in 5 years which is not that impressive for GOAT player)

KHSOLO
09-29-2012, 03:26 AM
I find Djokovic's god mode more impressive than Federer's. Djokovic smashed an all time great in Nadal countless times in a season even on Nadal's best surface.

For all im a Fed fan this impressed me the most really

absurdo
09-29-2012, 04:04 AM
Have to say Djokovic. His '11 season had NO weakness, honestly. Fed always had a BH problem and Nadal exploited that. Nole almost had no weakness in 2011 and if he played like that in 2012, he wudve destroyed Fed at Wimby, we all know that. However, Nole's level was always going to be more difficult to sustain because of how physical it is.
Fed was actually really lucky in the 04-07 years as the surface was suited to his game (that was apparent because he seldom won on clay whereas Nadal and Nole can win even on their weaker surfaces). Also, his opponents were joke compared to today's Nadal, Nole and Murray. Plus we have Delpo, Tsonga, Berdych and Ferrer (who is great on clay).
Fed has won only 5 GS since these players have arrived (in 5 years which is not that impressive for GOAT player)

have to say i don't agree. yes, federer has a backhand problem since the modern game is ruthless on single handed backhands. but it is also ruthless for those with other weaknesses, and every player has them. if djokovic did not have weaknesses he would not lose. the truth is djokovic doesn't have the best serve of the best 4, doesn't have the best movement (maybe he is equal with nadal on raw speed), doens't have the best slice (he has the worse), doesn't have the best volleys, the best overheads, the best half volleys. he is not the best at offense, he is not the best at dealing with changes of pace, and maybe some other stuff. and djokovic versus nadal at wimbledon is allways different than versus federer at wimbledon. nadal is not a natural grass player. we saw the way federer and novak moved on their game, didn't we? federer moved elegantly, as allways, novak looked awfull (and this not a glitch in his game, this happens a lot). still, kudos to him for his season, very impressed.

now, saying federer is lucky because the surfaces suited him is just plain wrong (at best). unless you accept that nadal and novak are also lucky that they slowed down the surfaces. if you do, them we should agree that this is pointless talk.

the opponents talk is even crapier than the surfaces one, and you should be embaressed. 'those' players are still beating younger opponents, and:

berdych is 27 years old, older than nadal, novak and murray; ferrer is 30 years old; tsonga is also 27, older than the other guys in top 3; del potro has a terrible h2h against federer, why talk about him?
PLUS, federer is, to my knoweledge, 31 years old, so the fact that he is NUMBER 1 IN THE WORLD makes your comment senseless. hes has won more than anyone else in history, so your are really saying that post prime federer just winning 5 GS in the last 5 years in terrible? it's the same amount as novak's GS, LOL. the different is that federer has 12 more... and nadal, tsonga, berdych and ferrer, the players you oh so like and think are a great threat to federer's greatness were already here. novak and murray came on tour strong on 2007, so that's 6 seasons, now. look at their ages.

the only player to have 'arrived' in the last 5 years ago is del potro and look at federer's h2h in grand slams (and look at his h2h with murray, too)...

THUNDERVOLLEY
09-29-2012, 05:38 AM
Australian Open 2006 Men's Semifinal Between Federer and Roddick, 3rd Set

Best set played by anyone in tennis history.

That is funny.

dangalak
09-29-2012, 06:07 AM
Federer's performance against Del Potro in 2009 (AO) was downright shocking.

tedmeister
09-29-2012, 06:14 AM
FEderer's...Still an ONgoinG SAGA...the hero lives on to fiGht another DAY. Of course a Great hero needs the best foil...it came in the Persona of NOvak and RAfa. NOW it is up to ROger to decide whether he will continue reaping the Laurels of VictorY or spend more time with the FAm. LatelY, he is startinG to BElieve aGain. Tennis is more about what Goes on between your ears at that level. They are like Gladiators from the days of ROme...their fatE is in the hands of the MOB. I believe he is trying to make the best of both worlds...an even impressive feat in this day and AGe...^

Semi-Pro
09-29-2012, 06:44 AM
Nadal's 2010 run is being badly overrated. His 2008 run was far more impressive and his pure standard of play was higher.

I agree. 2008 Nadal actually faced stiff competitors and plowed right through them with ease, and won the tougher matches with great will and determination.

2010 Nadal faced pathetic mug opponents since at the time practically the entire top 10 was slumping except Nadal so he took advantage.

dangalak
09-29-2012, 07:07 AM
Have to say Djokovic. His '11 season had NO weakness, honestly. Fed always had a BH problem and Nadal exploited that. Nole almost had no weakness in 2011 and if he played like that in 2012, he wudve destroyed Fed at Wimby, we all know that. However, Nole's level was always going to be more difficult to sustain because of how physical it is.
Fed was actually really lucky in the 04-07 years as the surface was suited to his game (that was apparent because he seldom won on clay whereas Nadal and Nole can win even on their weaker surfaces). Also, his opponents were joke compared to today's Nadal, Nole and Murray. Plus we have Delpo, Tsonga, Berdych and Ferrer (who is great on clay).
Fed has won only 5 GS since these players have arrived (in 5 years which is not that impressive for GOAT player)

This is why I consider Fed haters the most delusional out of all delusional tennis fans.

On grass, a Federer that's playing reasonably well would beat Djokovic no matter how well he is playing. A Djokovic that loses sets to the likes of Bagdhatis and Tomic was going do "destroy" Federer on grass? :lol: Even though he got embarrassed on clay, which is Federer's worst surface? Please.

Also, it should be a rule that people, who imply preposterous sh*t such a "weak eras" should be permed from the boards automatically. Djokovic should pray to God, that he isn't 5 years younger and didn't discover his "gluten free diet" during 2004-2006. While I can't say anything for Nadal, I am certain that Djokovic would be hard pressed to win slams at all. If current Federer can give him fits, what would the Federer of old do to him?

Not to mention the absurd notion that Federer's BH is a weakness. Why is it then that people with better backhands than Federer also have terrible records against Nadal? It's almost like it really doesn't matter whether your BH is good or bad against the likes of Nadal.

Djokovic got bagelled by Nishikori and went 1-2 in the WTF. That alone completely disqualifies him from any discussion as in best season of all time.

EDIT: As for why Federer "only" won 5 slams since 2007: he is 31 years old. People tend to win less as they get older.

Dark Magician
09-29-2012, 07:30 AM
It has to Djokovic 2011 season and Fed 05-06, though i might give Djokovic the edge (since the average level of Nole in 2011 till US is little > average level of Fed IMO) and another proof is the fact that he was so good in 2011 that even after accomplishing so much in 2012, people think his level and gone way way way low, but in reality he is a bit less confident and is no more Underdog to Fedal!!

dangalak
09-29-2012, 08:21 AM
It has to Djokovic 2011 season and Fed 05-06, though i might give Djokovic the edge (since the average level of Nole in 2011 till US is little > average level of Fed IMO) and another proof is the fact that he was so good in 2011 that even after accomplishing so much in 2012, people think his level and gone way way way low, but in reality he is a bit less confident and is no more Underdog to Fedal!!

:?

He almost lost to Federer in USO even though he was beasting, while Federer was gassed and started shanking balls left and right. How is such a thing even possible.

Dark Magician
09-29-2012, 08:41 AM
:?

He almost lost to Federer in USO even though he was beasting, while Federer was gassed and started shanking balls left and right. How is such a thing even possible.

Well ur right about the fact that he seemed gassed and tired but he also lost mentally. And as good or perhaps i should say as great Fed is, he shanks even when he isnt tired. It was Djokovic's mental strength that he came up with that return at match point. For Being good u need mental strength too, he out-played Fed mentally and then out-played Nadal in the Final which could have even been a 3 setter. That was Extraordinary and Fed seasons were also very close, just just a tad bit behind. However Novak did screw up the remaining season.

dangalak
09-29-2012, 08:44 AM
Well ur right about the fact that he seemed gassed and tired but he also lost mentally. And as good or perhaps i should say as great Fed is, he shanks even when he isnt tired. It was Djokovic's mental strength that he came up with that return at match point. For Being good u need mental strength too, he out-played Fed mentally and then out-played Nadal in the Final which could have even been a 3 setter. That was Extraordinary and Fed seasons were also very close, just just a tad bit behind. However Novak did screw up the remaining season.

the fact that you consider that hail mary retun of his a sign of mental strength, show how ignorant you are of this topic. If anything, that was a sign of mental weakness, as was the fact that he was broken in the first place.

Forget Federer's best season: you could seriously ask whether Federer's 2004 season is better than Djokovic's 2011. It probably isn't, but just saying.

Dark Magician
09-29-2012, 08:49 AM
the fact that you consider that hail mary retun of his a sign of mental strength, show how ignorant you are of this topic. If anything, that was a sign of mental weakness, as was the fact that he was broken in the first place.

Forget Federer's best season: you could seriously ask whether Federer's 2004 season is better than Djokovic's 2011. It probably isn't, but just saying.

Well if by any means u think i am trying to downplay Fed, then u are wrong.
Fed played great US open SF and schooled Djokovic at RG yet i believe Djokovic was too good in that season. And Djokovic got broken in AO2012 in 5th set (his 2012 season is weaker than his 2011, isnt it?), yet he came back and won. He was 2 sets down in RG 2012, yet he came back and beat Nadal in 3rd set, thats not Luck. In US, after that return he was still 3-5 30-40 down and won 7-5, not even 7-6 in a TB. That season was amazing!

dangalak
09-29-2012, 08:53 AM
Well if by any means u think i am trying to downplay Fed, then u are wrong.
Fed played great US open SF and schooled Djokovic at RG yet i believe Djokovic was too good in that season. And Djokovic got broken in AO2012 in 5th set (his 2012 season is weaker than his 2011, isnt it?), yet he came back and won. He was 2 sets down in RG 2012, yet he came back and best Nadal in 3rd set, thats not Luck. In US, after that return he was still 3-5 30-40 down and won 7-5, not even 7-6 in a TB. That season was amazing!

Yet not better than Federer's best season. :)

NadalAgassi
09-29-2012, 08:54 AM
I agree. 2008 Nadal actually faced stiff competitors and plowed right through them with ease, and won the tougher matches with great will and determination.

2010 Nadal faced pathetic mug opponents since at the time practically the entire top 10 was slumping except Nadal so he took advantage.

Who did he not face at any slam that would have beaten him:

2010 French- LOL, next.

2010 Wimbledon- Federer and Djokovic would have both been spanked by Nadal the way they were playing there, and Murray who was playing well was beaten in straight sets in the semis.

2010 Wimbledon- Djokovic faced and lost decisively to Nadal, and Federer was not likely to have beaten Nadal here either. Murray would have had the best chance but as it was he came in on a hot streak and still got hit off the court by Wawrinka.

Dark Magician
09-29-2012, 08:56 AM
Yet not better than Federer's best season. :)
May be. I am no Tennis expert or analyst. Just a fan. I personally thought Novak's 2011 was being underrated, so gave my opinion.

dangalak
09-29-2012, 09:09 AM
Who did he not face at any slam that would have beaten him:

2010 French- LOL, next.

2010 Wimbledon- Federer and Djokovic would have both been spanked by Nadal the way they were playing there, and Murray who was playing well was beaten in straight sets in the semis.

2010 Wimbledon- Djokovic faced and lost decisively to Nadal, and Federer was not likely to have beaten Nadal here either. Murray would have had the best chance but as it was he came in on a hot streak and still got hit off the court by Wawrinka.

You miss the point. People are saying that all his credible opponents were off their game and they were. He had to beat Federer and Djokovic to win his big titles in 2008. He had to beat Soderling, Berdych and Djokovic to win his big titles in 2010. 2008 was more impressive.

Feather
09-29-2012, 09:39 AM
Have to say Djokovic. His '11 season had NO weakness, honestly. Fed always had a BH problem and Nadal exploited that. Nole almost had no weakness in 2011 and if he played like that in 2012, he wudve destroyed Fed at Wimby, we all know that. However, Nole's level was always going to be more difficult to sustain because of how physical it is.
Fed was actually really lucky in the 04-07 years as the surface was suited to his game (that was apparent because he seldom won on clay whereas Nadal and Nole can win even on their weaker surfaces). Also, his opponents were joke compared to today's Nadal, Nole and Murray. Plus we have Delpo, Tsonga, Berdych and Ferrer (who is great on clay).
Fed has won only 5 GS since these players have arrived (in 5 years which is not that impressive for GOAT player)

I admit Novak Djokovic played very well in 2011 and that's not debatable. It's silly to say that Novak would have destroyed Roger at Wimbledon. Did you forget the RG 2011 semi final? Clay is Roger's weakest surface and Novak's best surface after hard court. Roger won that and you say that Novak would destroy Roger in his best surface.

Feather
09-29-2012, 09:49 AM
Djokovic has been a problem matchup for Nadal on clay even when Nadal played god-mode tennis. Check out Hamburg 2008, Monte Carlo 2009, Madrid 2009, etc. That's before Djokovic even reached his best level and was still shaky mentally.
2011 Djokovic would've been a formidable challenge for any version of Nadal on clay. Djokovic was playing at an almost inhuman level at times.

Rafael Nadal is GOD on clay. Roger lost to him many times and even though I am a die hard Roger Federer fan, I admit that Roger was lucky to win an RG. Roger would not have won 2009 if not for Robin Soderling taking out Rafa. However, Roger is without doubt, at least for me, a better clay courter than Novak Djokovic. He has bagelled Rafa on clay, and even when he is way past his prime he defeated Novak in a five setter at RG. I saw one of your posts in which you said Roger was in his form of life and still he lost to a lacklustre Rafa in 2011. If you think a 30 year old Roger was playing his form of life then I don't have anything more to say. You need to, like some other poster said, watch Roger during peak on clay..

NadalAgassi
09-29-2012, 09:59 AM
You miss the point. People are saying that all his credible opponents were off their game and they were. He had to beat Federer and Djokovic to win his big titles in 2008. He had to beat Soderling, Berdych and Djokovic to win his big titles in 2010. 2008 was more impressive.

Beating Federer in slams is never that difficult for Nadal, and that is the only new name you presented. Also arent you the one who was trying to argue what a great player Berdych is?

dangalak
09-29-2012, 10:11 AM
Beating Federer in slams is never that difficult for Nadal, and that is the only new name you presented. Also arent you the one who was trying to argue what a great player Berdych is?

Are you claiming that Nadal's 2010 is better than his 2008 yes or no. If no, I'm not gonna waste my time here.

NadalAgassi
09-29-2012, 10:18 AM
Are you claiming that Nadal's 2010 is better than his 2008 yes or no. If no, I'm not gonna waste my time here.

Yes. 3 slams > 2 slams. Pretty simple. In what planet is that not a "better year". First guy ever to win slams on all 3 major surfaces in the same year. Only bitter Nadal haters (aka 99% of Planet TW) would try and downplay its worth, and dismiss the standard of tennis he played in 2010.

I could agree his standard of tennis at times might have been even higher in 2008, but that only speaks to how outstandingly he was playing in 2008.

BauerAlmeida
09-29-2012, 02:32 PM
Yes. 3 slams > 2 slams. Pretty simple. In what planet is that not a "better year". First guy ever to win slams on all 3 major surfaces in the same year. Only bitter Nadal haters (aka 99% of Planet TW) would try and downplay its worth, and dismiss the standard of tennis he played in 2010.

I could agree his standard of tennis at times might have been even higher in 2008, but that only speaks to how outstandingly he was playing in 2008.

But in 2008 he won the olympics (and on Hard Courts), so he had big titles in 3 different surfaces too.

IMO 2008 Nadal is better than 2010, he was playing much better.

MichaelNadal
09-29-2012, 02:33 PM
But in 2008 he won the olympics (and on Hard Courts), so he had big titles in 3 different surfaces too.

IMO 2008 Nadal is better than 2010, he was playing much better.

He was actually playing better in 2010 outside of clay. Clay though 2008.

NadalAgassi
09-29-2012, 02:49 PM
That is how I feel too. 2008 Nadal > 2010 Nadal on clay, although 2010 Nadal still reached a level none of todays other players have ever reached on the surface (as did Nadal of 2006, 2007, some of 2009, 2012, and maybe 2005 as well). On other surfaces though Nadal of 2010 was better, especialy on hard courts, he was never serving how he did at the 2010 U.S Open including when he won the Olympics.

dangalak
09-29-2012, 02:54 PM
Yes. 3 slams > 2 slams. Pretty simple. In what planet is that not a "better year". First guy ever to win slams on all 3 major surfaces in the same year. Only bitter Nadal haters (aka 99% of Planet TW) would try and downplay its worth, and dismiss the standard of tennis he played in 2010.

I could agree his standard of tennis at times might have been even higher in 2008, but that only speaks to how outstandingly he was playing in 2008.

That is just silly. Federer's 2005 season was also superior to his 2007 and 2004 seasons.

Nadal's opposition in 2010 was laughable. He lost to Ljubicic and Roddick during the spring hardcourt swing, had laughable opposition during the claycourt swing and the grass swing and had a virtual cakedraw to the final in the USO.

In 2008, he lost to an on fire Tsonga, had an unholy clay court season, a legendary grasscourt season, and a very good hardcourt season. (beat a Djokovic on top of his game in Beijing and Paris)

No way 10 was better than 08.

JSummers
09-29-2012, 04:58 PM
I find Djokovic's god mode more impressive than Federer's. Djokovic smashed an all time great in Nadal countless times in a season even on Nadal's best surface. Federer even despite god mode kept losing on clay on the other hand. Federer basically ruined a potential Djokovic/Nadal RG final. Nadal was mentally at Djokovic's mercy at that period.

Isn't it circular logic? We can also say, despite Djokovic's god mode smashing everyone including Godmode Nadal, the less-than Godmode Federer score wins.

Godmode Federer lose to Nadal
Godmode Nadal lose to Djokovic
Godmode Djokovc lose to Fed

NadalAgassi
09-29-2012, 05:02 PM
That is just silly. Federer's 2005 season was also superior to his 2007 and 2004 seasons.

Nadal's opposition in 2010 was laughable. He lost to Ljubicic and Roddick during the spring hardcourt swing, had laughable opposition during the claycourt swing ......blah blah blah blah

Like I said name any opposition who would have likely beaten him at the 3 slams (something nobody has been able to do yet). Otherwise your excuse making argument goes nowhere. So what if he lost some matches on hard courts, Nadal on hard courts is never going to go 60-0 or something on a year, he didnt in 2008 either. He still won the years biggest clay, biggest grass, and biggest hard court event, the only one in tennis history thus far to do so in a Calendar year. There is nobody in the draw who had a hope in hell of beating him either at Roland Garros or Wimbledon that year so your draw argument is pointless. Believe me I would have quite enjoyed watching Federer get spanked badly in the finals of both events had he made them, but he didnt so Nadal had to be satisfied spanking the guy who overpowered Federer in a previous round instead in both cases. Only at the U.S Open could someone maybe argue Murray (or at a major stretch of desperation Federer, lol) but anyone who saw that event who isnt incredibly biased against Nadal (which eliminates 99% of Planet TW of course) knows Nadal was on fire, serving unbelievably for him, and would have been very hard for anyone in the draw to beat, as Djokovic found out in the final being trounced after his huge win over Federer, when even then he had good past success vs Nadal on hard courts.

Federer in 2004 and 2007 lost alot of matches compared to 2005 so that is a unique case, however even then Federer not only lost 2 of the 4 slams, but the WTF title too, so lost 3 of the 5 biggest events, so no I dont think Federer's 2005 is better than any of his 3 slam years.

dangalak
09-29-2012, 07:35 PM
Like I said name any opposition who would have likely beaten him at the 3 slams (something nobody has been able to do yet). Otherwise your excuse making argument goes nowhere. So what if he lost some matches on hard courts, Nadal on hard courts is never going to go 60-0 or something on a year, he didnt in 2008 either. He still won the years biggest clay, biggest grass, and biggest hard court event, the only one in tennis history thus far to do so in a Calendar year. There is nobody in the draw who had a hope in hell of beating him either at Roland Garros or Wimbledon that year so your draw argument is pointless. Believe me I would have quite enjoyed watching Federer get spanked badly in the finals of both events had he made them, but he didnt so Nadal had to be satisfied spanking the guy who overpowered Federer in a previous round instead in both cases. Only at the U.S Open could someone maybe argue Murray (or at a major stretch of desperation Federer, lol) but anyone who saw that event who isnt incredibly biased against Nadal (which eliminates 99% of Planet TW of course) knows Nadal was on fire, serving unbelievably for him, and would have been very hard for anyone in the draw to beat, as Djokovic found out in the final being trounced after his huge win over Federer, when even then he had good past success vs Nadal on hard courts.

Federer in 2004 and 2007 lost alot of matches compared to 2005 so that is a unique case, however even then Federer not only lost 2 of the 4 slams, but the WTF title too, so lost 3 of the 5 biggest events, so no I dont think Federer's 2005 is better than any of his 3 slam years.

Pretty sure he striggled against Petzschner in Wimby and actually lost a couple of games against Melzer. In 2008, he probably woul've crushed him losing only 2 games or something. Beating a Federer who actually showed some balls >> beating Berdych. And while he won USO, he never faced anyone like Murray 08 in that tournament.

Murrayfan31
09-29-2012, 07:38 PM
Fed or Djokovic. lol at those choosing Nadal.

NadalAgassi
09-29-2012, 07:45 PM
Pretty sure he striggled against Petzschner in Wimby and actually lost a couple of games against Melzer. In 2008, he probably woul've crushed him losing only 2 games or something. Beating a Federer who actually showed some balls >> beating Berdych. And while he won USO, he never faced anyone like Murray 08 in that tournament.

So just because he got off to a slow start at Wimbledon 2010 means his form at French Open 2010, Wimbledon 2010, and U.S Open 2010 was all crap. OK, great logic, LOL! He was playing exceptionally well by the end of Wimbledon 2010, Murray played a great match in the semis and still didnt even win a set. Federer and Djokovic were playing crap grass tennis at that event and would have been massacred had they reached Nadal, but thankfully for them Berdych put them out of their misery before reaching that point.

U.S Open 2010 Nadal was in scintillating form, his best ever tennis on hard courts. He was serving 130+ mph as well, probably the only time in his career he did. It isnt his fault he didnt play Murray in the semis, but seeing this was in the middle of a 4 slam win streak for Nadal over Murray I doubt Nadal haters would have gotten their wish (other than their excuse of Nadal having an easy draw to downplay his performance now down the drain). Djokovic 2011 wasnt much different from Murray 2008, Djokovic was having a subpar year for his standards but was giving off a win over Federer and had found his best tennis of the year at that event, and Murray was a baby as a top player just getting started by late 2008. In fact Djokovic every year of his career even before becoming Djokovic 2.0 was ranked higher at years end and a better player on paper than Murray.

smoledman
09-29-2012, 07:52 PM
2007 Australian Open - Federer all 7 rounds.

abmk
09-29-2012, 08:11 PM
I would say Nadal in 2008 and 2010 since he was winning vs all opponents on all surfaces, whereas even god mode peak of peaks Federer found himself regularly not winning on clay and regularly losing to Nadal, with only 2 Hamburg titles to show for all his clay efforts from 2004-2007 (2004 when Nadal was irrelevant), and losing 6 of his first 7 matches to a teenaged Nadal.

Nadal in 2008 wins the French Open on clay, wins Wimbledon on grass, wins the Olympics on hards. Nadal in 2010 wins the French Open on clay, wins Wimbledon on grass, wins the U.S Open on hards. Consistently beats Federer, Djokovic, Murray, whoever is on the other side of the side with only occasional defeats. No surface, no opponent, no problem, unlike peak Federer.

As for Djokovic, even 2011 Djokovic lost to 30 year old Federer in a slam and was match points down to lose to him in another.

nadal got thrashed by tsonga @ the AO ....lost convincingly to murray @ the USO in 2008 and then @ the AO in 2010 ...

then of course he lost to youzhny, seppi, roddick, djokovic, davydenko,ferrero, murray,simon in 2008 in non-slam events

then of course he lost to davydenko, murray, ljubicic,roddick,lopez,baghdatis,garcia lopez, melzer,federer in 2010 in non-slam events

I'd say he had plenty of problems and the defeats were not occasional but far more frequent compared to federer's peak years or djoker's 2011 ...

not anywhere close to winning 3 of the 4 HC events, not winning the YEC, not having a W/L % greater than 90 ( which federer did in 3 years and djoker did in 2011 ) ...

no problems on any surface ? really ? is that why he got ripped apart by tsonga @ AO 2008 ..... is that why he got beaten in straights by murray in AO 2010 ... is that why he lost convincingly to murray @ USO 2008 .... that's 3 losses in 4 HC slam events where his opponents beat him convincingly ....

if federer lost 6 of 7 matches to teenaged nadal, he also won 5 of the next 7 matches ....... nice try with that spin though ....:)

NadalAgassi
09-29-2012, 08:15 PM
no problems on any surface ? really ? is that why he got ripped apart by tsonga @ AO 2008 ..... is that why he got beaten in straights by murray in AO 2010 ... is that why he lost convincingly to murray @ USO 2008 .... that's 3 losses in 4 HC slam events where his opponents beat him convincingly ....

He still won a major event on hard courts in both 2010 (U.S Open) and 2008 (Olympics). He still beat everyone on hard courts numerous times over, in fact more often than not. Did Federer do either regarding clay or Nadal in general in 2005 and 2006, his supposed god years? :oops:

abmk
09-29-2012, 08:26 PM
He still won a major event on hard courts in both 2010 (U.S Open) and 2008 (Olympics). He still beat everyone on hard courts numerous times over, in fact more often than not. Did Federer do either regarding clay or Nadal in general in 2005 and 2006, his supposed god years? :oops:

Olympics is NOT such a major event. Probably equivalent to a Masters 1000 in terms of difficulty , but that's about it ...

federer was consistently making finals in CC events in his peak years, something rafa didn't with regard to his peak years in 2008, 2010 as far as HC goes ...

dangalak
09-29-2012, 08:27 PM
Dude, you know that Nadal doesn't necessarily need to do anything special to beat Federer. It is almost an anatomical impossibility for Federer to beat Nadal on clay. It is hard to deny how ever that for most people, Federer is in general a tougher opponent than Nadal.

Nadal is a tougher opponent on clay than Federer is on any surface though.

abmk
09-29-2012, 08:29 PM
Like I said name any opposition who would have likely beaten him at the 3 slams (something nobody has been able to do yet). Otherwise your excuse making argument goes nowhere. So what if he lost some matches on hard courts, Nadal on hard courts is never going to go 60-0 or something on a year, he didnt in 2008 either. He still won the years biggest clay, biggest grass, and biggest hard court event, the only one in tennis history thus far to do so in a Calendar year. There is nobody in the draw who had a hope in hell of beating him either at Roland Garros or Wimbledon that year so your draw argument is pointless. Believe me I would have quite enjoyed watching Federer get spanked badly in the finals of both events had he made them, but he didnt so Nadal had to be satisfied spanking the guy who overpowered Federer in a previous round instead in both cases. Only at the U.S Open could someone maybe argue Murray (or at a major stretch of desperation Federer, lol) but anyone who saw that event who isnt incredibly biased against Nadal (which eliminates 99% of Planet TW of course) knows Nadal was on fire, serving unbelievably for him, and would have been very hard for anyone in the draw to beat, as Djokovic found out in the final being trounced after his huge win over Federer, when even then he had good past success vs Nadal on hard courts.

Federer in 2004 and 2007 lost alot of matches compared to 2005 so that is a unique case, however even then Federer not only lost 2 of the 4 slams, but the WTF title too, so lost 3 of the 5 biggest events, so no I dont think Federer's 2005 is better than any of his 3 slam years.

nadal could have lost to haase/petzschener @ wimbledon .... no hope in hell ? LOL !

also federer if he was in good form and played like he did he in the QF instead of how he played in SF @ the US Open ...

abmk
09-29-2012, 08:31 PM
Dude, you know that Nadal doesn't necessarily need to do anything special to beat Federer. It is almost an anatomical impossibility for Federer to beat Nadal on clay.

this is totally revisionist ...... and in some ways an insult to both fed/nadal .... Nadal still has to execute at a high level to beat federer on clay ( even with federer helping him through some letdowns/chokes )

It is hard to deny how ever that for most people, Federer is in general a tougher opponent than Nadal.

Nadal is a tougher opponent on clay than Federer is on any surface though.

agree with this ....

abmk
09-29-2012, 08:33 PM
He was actually playing better in 2010 outside of clay. Clay though 2008.

he was also playing better on grass in 2008 than in 2010 ....

NadalAgassi
09-29-2012, 08:43 PM
nadal could have lost to haase/petzschener @ wimbledon .... no hope in hell ? LOL !

also federer if he was in good form and played like he did he in the QF instead of how he played in SF @ the US Open ...

Nadal was playing much better by the end of Wimbledon. He beat both Murray and red hot Berdych in straight sets. Had Haase or Petzscher played him in his 2nd week form they would have been struggling to win games. If there is anyone who would have beaten him at that Wimbledon then who exactly. Federer or Djokovic, LOL! Go ahead and try and argue that since I could use a really good laugh. Nadal played the guys playing the next best tennis at that Wimbledon and that was Murray and Berdych, anyone else would have only been easier. Federer and Djokovic were both pretty much a joke at that event and lucky that Berdych put them out of their misery when he did.

Now regarding the U.S Open, Federer usually loses to Nadal on outdoor hard courts even when Nadal isnt serving up to 135 mph like he was at the 2010 U.S Open.

dangalak
09-29-2012, 08:51 PM
Nadal was playing much better by the end of Wimbledon. He beat both Murray and red hot Berdych in straight sets. Had Haase or Petzscher played him in his 2nd week form they would have been struggling to win games. If there is anyone who would have beaten him at that Wimbledon then who exactly. Federer or Djokovic, LOL! Go ahead and try and argue that since I could use a really good laugh. Nadal played the guys playing the next best tennis at that Wimbledon and that was Murray and Berdych, anyone else would have only been easier. Federer and Djokovic were both pretty much a joke at that event and lucky that Berdych put them out of their misery when he did.

Now regarding the U.S Open, Federer usually loses to Nadal on outdoor hard courts even when Nadal isnt serving up to 135 mph like he was at the 2010 U.S Open.

Tbh, I feel like the pace would've bothered Federer less than Nadal's regular serve. Not to mention, Nadal's superiority over Federer outdoors has more to do with slow hardcourts. USO around 2010 was still pretty fast.

NadalAgassi
09-29-2012, 08:53 PM
Tbh, I feel like the pace would've bothered Federer less than Nadal's regular serve. Not to mention, Nadal's superiority over Federer outdoors has more to do with slow hardcourts. USO around 2010 was still pretty fast.

Who knows, we will never know now. I do find it funny Federer returns Nadal's serve worse than Roddick's so you could be onto something on the serve, lol! Either way the best there are is a couple guys you could speculate had decent chances vs Nadal at 1 of the 3 slams only (Federer and Murray at the U.S Open) who didnt get to play him since they both fell to an opponent they were highly expected to beat, but far from sure or safe bets to have beaten him and probably less than 50% odds each, and pretty much nobody he didnt play who had a real chance at the other 2. That is far from being lucky to win 3 slams with easy draws.

dangalak
09-29-2012, 08:55 PM
Who knows, we will never know now. Either way the best there is are guys you could speculate had decent chances vs Nadal at 1 of the 3 slams only (Federer and Murray at the U.S Open), but far from sure or safe bets to have beaten him, and pretty much nobody he didnt play who had a chance at the other 2. That is far from being lucky to win 3 slams with easy draws.

Hey, I also think Federer had an easy draw winning the AO 06 even though there was nobody that could've beaten him there in all likelihood. :lol:

NadalAgassi
09-29-2012, 08:57 PM
Hey, I also think Federer had an easy draw winning the AO 06 even though there was nobody that could've beaten him there in all likelihood. :lol:

Federer wasnt even playing well that event, I think it was the worst tennis I ever saw him win a grand slam with. I think if Nadal played him he would have beaten him, but most likely Nadal would not have made the final even had he played (well would have for sure if he played Baghdatis in the semis but most likely he would have fallen to some flat hitter in the 3rd round-quarters like usual) so it is moot. Federer in 05/06 was so far ahead of everyone else on hard courts and grass he could even play his fugliest tennis and still win most often.

Wasnt something done with the courts to make them slower that year. That is probably why he struggled so much.

abmk
09-29-2012, 08:59 PM
Nadal was playing much better by the end of Wimbledon. He beat both Murray and red hot Berdych in straight sets. Had Haase or Petzscher played him in his 2nd week form they would have been struggling to win games. If there is anyone who would have beaten him at that Wimbledon then who exactly. Federer or Djokovic, LOL! Go ahead and try and argue that since I could use a really good laugh. Nadal played the guys playing the next best tennis at that Wimbledon and that was Murray and Berdych, anyone else would have only been easier. Federer and Djokovic were both pretty much a joke at that event and lucky that Berdych put them out of their misery when he did.

red hot berdych ? LOL !!!!!! till the finals , yes .... But he played cr*p in the final ......murray was just playing decent tennis, nothing that good ....

why on earth should we talk about how he was doing in the 2nd week when we're talking about haase/petzschener- if haase/petzschener had kept their cool, they could've sent him packing in the first week ?

the fact that federer/djoker were playing so poorly @ wimbledon that year only further shows that nadal's competition that year @ wimbledon was weakened ...

Now regarding the U.S Open, Federer usually loses to Nadal on outdoor hard courts even when Nadal isnt serving up to 135 mph like he was at the 2010 U.S Open.

those were mainly slow HC courts - miami (twice ), AO (twice ) ....
again federer may have had less trouble dealing with that serve of nadal than his usual serve ...

dangalak
09-29-2012, 09:01 PM
He was probably injured still and still a bit shocked about his massive choke against Nalby. Hadn't lost in a final in a year or more. His level of play is generally attributed to those 2 things.

dangalak
09-29-2012, 09:02 PM
red hot berdych ? LOL !!!!!! till the finals , yes .... But he played cr*p in the final ......murray was just playing decent tennis, nothing that good ....

why on earth should we talk about how he was doing in the 2nd week when we're talking about haase/petzschener- if haase/petzschener had kept their cool, they could've sent him packing in the first week ?

the fact that federer/djoker were playing so poorly @ wimbledon that year only further shows that nadal's competition that year @ wimbledon was weakened ...



those were mainly slow HC courts - miami (twice ), AO (twice ) ....
again federer may have had less trouble dealing with that serve of nadal than his usual serve ...

Murray aced him like 20 + times IIRC. :lol:

NadalAgassi
09-29-2012, 09:06 PM
red hot berdych ? LOL !!!!!! till the finals , yes .... But he played cr*p in the final ......murray was just playing decent tennis, nothing that good ....

why on earth should we talk about how he was doing in the 2nd week when we're talking about haase/petzschener- if haase/petzschener had kept their cool, they could've sent him packing in the first week ?


Berdych played fine in the finals, he just never has a chance vs prime Nadal, regardless his form. The H2H speaks for itself. Nadal was playing twice as well as Federer or Djokovic in week 2 at that Wimbledon, so needless to say he was never going to have the same success with Nadal as he had vs those two either.

Had Falla kept his cool he would have sent Federer packing in the 1st round at that same Wimbledon. Had Benneteau kept his cool he would have sent Federer packing in the 1st week of this years Wimbledon. Had Haas kept his cool Federer would have no French Open title today. See how easy that is.

dangalak
09-29-2012, 09:08 PM
Berdych played fine in the finals, he just never has a chance vs prime Nadal, regardless his form. The H2H speaks for itself. Nadal was playing twice as well as Federer or Djokovic at that Wimbledon, so needless to say he was never going to have the same success with Nadal as he had vs those two either.

Had Falla kept his cool he would have sent Federer packing in the 1st round at that same Wimbledon. Had Benneteau kept his cool he would have sent Federer packing in the 1st week of this years Wimbledon. Had Haas kept his cool Federer would have no French Open title today. See how easy that is.

Your last paragraph is a strawman or a redherring as nobody has claimed that Federer had no hope in hell of losing in those tournaments. :) You did however.

NadalAgassi
09-29-2012, 09:09 PM
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abmk
09-29-2012, 09:10 PM
Berdych played fine in the finals, he just never has a chance vs prime Nadal, regardless his form. The H2H speaks for itself. Nadal was playing twice as well as Federer or Djokovic at that Wimbledon, so needless to say he was never going to have the same success with Nadal as he had vs those two either.

berdych crumbled at every crucial moment in that final ... He didn't play fine ..... LOL

he lost in straights to nadal @ one of the CC events this year ( rome ?), but he played some fine tennis ....... but nadal was just better .... now that was putting up some fight, not the lame performance in the wimbledon 2010 final

Had Falla kept his cool he would have sent Federer packing in the 1st round at that same Wimbledon. Had Benneteau kept his cool he would have sent Federer packing in the 1st week of this years Wimbledon. Had Haas kept his cool Federer would have no French Open title today. See how easy that is.

falla , maybe ..... but I don't agree with benneteau/haas .... federer dug out those matches more than haas/benneteau losing their cool ..

besides the question was who could've beaten nadal at wimbledon 2010 and I'd say haase/petzschener had a good shot at that ....

dangalak
09-29-2012, 09:11 PM
Umm Federer did win the 2009 French and 2012 Wimbledon events.

Yes I mea, your argument would make sense if somebody had said "There was no way Federer was going to lose to anyone in FO 09" or "there was no way anyone was gonna beat Federer in Wimbledon 12". Alas, nobody said this, so your statement isn't really necessary.

NadalAgassi
09-29-2012, 09:12 PM
falla , maybe ..... but I don't agree with benneteau/haas .... federer dug out those matches more than haas/benneteau losing their cool ..

besides the question was who could've beaten nadal at wimbledon 2010 and I'd say haase/petzschener had a good shot at that ....

Well I disagree with you on Haase and Petzschener as well. Nadal played much better in the last 2 sets of both matches, and at a level Haase and Petzschener are incapable of playing at.

abmk
09-29-2012, 09:19 PM
Murray aced him like 20 + times IIRC. :lol:

it was 15 ..

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Share/Match-Facts-Pop-Up.aspx?t=540&y=2010&r=6&p=MC10

The-Champ
09-30-2012, 08:36 AM
Nadal's lever of play summer 2008 is higher than his 2010 imo even though he achieved less.

Murrayfan31
09-30-2012, 07:55 PM
Nadal's lever of play summer 2008 is higher than his 2010 imo even though he achieved less.
Better on clay. Not on the other surfaces where the serve matters. Nadal served much better in 2010.

The-Champ
09-30-2012, 10:53 PM
Better on clay. Not on the other surfaces where the serve matters. Nadal served much better in 2010.

Nadal was a lot faster in 2008 though and he was better on grass too. I'd take superior movement over "the once in a blue moon" huge serve.

Sabratha
09-30-2012, 11:38 PM
Federer in 2006.

Murrayfan31
09-30-2012, 11:57 PM
Nadal was a lot faster in 2008 though and he was better on grass too. I'd take superior movement over "the once in a blue moon" huge serve.
Nadal was also hitting harder in 2010. It helped him especially on hard courts where he got overpowered more often in 2008.

dangalak
10-01-2012, 12:46 AM
Nadal was also hitting harder in 2010. It helped him especially on hard courts where he got overpowered more often in 2008.

What? :)

He didn't get overpowered that frequently in 2008. I mean, going by that token, Roddick and Ljubicic did that too.

I honestly don't think this is even a debate.

heftylefty
10-01-2012, 01:14 PM
Federer 06 Djokovic 2011

I'm in total agreement. I'm a Fed guy, but the Djoker was pretty amazing.

NadalAgassi
10-01-2012, 01:35 PM
What? :)

He didn't get overpowered that frequently in 2008. I mean, going by that token, Roddick and Ljubicic did that too.

I honestly don't think this is even a debate.

Nadal had real chances to win both the Roddick and Ljubicic matches, and probably should have won both. In the end I was happy to see Ljubicic finally win a Masters, and Roddick have one last great moment, but he was in no way overwhelmed or easily overpowered in either match. He was hardly overwhelmed or easily beaten in any match that year, even indoors he took an on fire Federer to 3 sets in the WTF, spanked Djokovic, and beat Murray in a thriller. His easiest loss of the year I can recall is the Canadian semis vs Murray, and I guess vs Murray in Australia too, but Murray isnt even a power player.

In 2008 he was blown off the court a number of times. Davydenko in Miami, Tsonga in Australia, even the U.S Open semis vs Murray while the score was close the winners were something like 3 to 1 ratio.

One of the few times I actually agree with Murrayfan on anything.