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View Full Version : Nadal the best volleyer of the top 4?


smoledman
09-29-2012, 08:12 PM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/archive/index.php/t-415954.html

Yes there it is, all the evidence provided by Volley King. Statistical evidence from one match! :twisted::twisted:

KineticChain
09-29-2012, 08:17 PM
i hate that evil face emoticon

Clarky21
09-29-2012, 08:20 PM
Nadal is not the best volleyer in the top 4. He barely even registers as decent in that department.

smoledman
09-29-2012, 08:31 PM
Nadal is not the best volleyer in the top 4. He barely even registers as decent in that department.

Except that link proves you agreed with VK!

dangalak
09-29-2012, 08:37 PM
Honestly, despite his inferior talent to Murray and maybe even Nadal in terms of volleying, Djokovic might just be the second best netplayer of the top guys. He actually DOES come forward when he has an opportunity. Murray and Nadal are far more prone to be glued to the baseline.

There's no question to as to who is the best though. :lol:

NadalAgassi
09-29-2012, 08:38 PM
Honestly, despite his inferior talent to Murray and maybe even Nadal in terms of volleying, Djokovic might just be the second best netplayer of the top guys. He actually DOES come forward when he has an opportunity. Murray and Nadal are far more prone to be glued to the baseline.

There's no question to as to who is the best though. :lol:

Yes Djokovic comes forward when he has the opportunity. Nadal used to but less so of late. Murray seems resistant too despite good volleying technique, makes no sense. He did it more on grass this summer, but then on hards glued himself back to the baseline.

ledwix
09-29-2012, 08:41 PM
If Nadal is the best volleyer of the top 4, then he is stupid for staying back so much. 15 net rushes in a near 4 hour match means he is not that comfortable. He is the best fighter of the top 4, a huge momentum player who can will his way back into a match historically better than the others. But best volleyer? No way.

winstonplum
09-29-2012, 08:43 PM
This was always an absolutely asinine thing that JMac said. Federer is by far the best volleyer of the four. Murray a distant second, with Nadal and Djokovic bringing up the rear.

dangalak
09-29-2012, 08:52 PM
This was always an absolutely asinine thing that JMac said. Federer is by far the best volleyer of the four. Murray a distant second, with Nadal and Djokovic bringing up the rear.

Maybe he has the best volleys, but sometimes you would think he has the hands of Soderling, considering how unwilling he is to come forward.

Sri
09-29-2012, 08:55 PM
Nadal is not a volleyer at all. He takes zero risks.

He only hits a drop volley. That too when his forehand has already done all the damage and its a really weak passing shot.

He could just as well head the ball to the other side and *********s will start threads about how superior Nadal is compared to footballers.

Zarfot Z
09-29-2012, 09:09 PM
Classic TW stuff right here.

The Bawss
09-29-2012, 10:13 PM
The only thing stupider than McEnroe saying Nadal has the best top4 volleys is the people on TW who believe and agree with him. I needn't say who has the best volleys in the top 4 as it's so painfully obvious.

Lovely_Bone
09-29-2012, 11:32 PM
You guys ever watched nadal play doubles? His volleys are good. His volleys in singles are good too. Way better than federer, you guys just don't want to accept it

Nathaniel_Near
09-29-2012, 11:46 PM
You guys ever watched nadal play doubles? His volleys are good. His volleys in singles are good too. Way better than federer, you guys just don't want to accept it

Leave the forum before it's too late, son!

Sid_Vicious
09-29-2012, 11:53 PM
You guys ever watched nadal play doubles? His volleys are good. His volleys in singles are good too. Way better than federer, you guys just don't want to accept it

http://rapradar.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/mj-gif.gif

Wilander Fan
09-29-2012, 11:56 PM
Federer is the only one of the top 4 or even top 10 that really has a net game. By net game, I mean comes to the net expecting to hit a half volley. Put away volleys 3 feet from the net are pretty useless in measuring net skills but it takes skill and experience to anticipate and dig out the half volleys on the service line and out them in a position to hit a clean winner. No one but Fed does this and Fed does this alot.

DolgoSantoro
09-30-2012, 12:11 AM
Nadal is a pretty good volleyer, but he doesn't really take risks at net. Take McEnroe himself, the one who started all this. I'd bet a lot of the time Nadal has better volleying percentages than McEnroe did, because Mac would attack the net again and again, even if he knew he might get passed (or hit if he was playing Lendl). But no one barring *** would say Nadal is a better volleyer than Mac. He has a great volley percentage because he goes to the net when the other player is on a dead sprint, ten feet behind the baseline running away from the court . He might be the most intelligent about coming to net but in no way is he the best volleyer

OverratedIvanovic
09-30-2012, 12:24 AM
Federer and Murray are better volleyers than Nadal. Djokovic is the least proficient volleyer out of top 4 although he seems more than eager to finish the points at net.

big ted
09-30-2012, 01:07 AM
well nadal rarely misses up there and has excellent reflexes and technique which looks almost perfect to me. his technique looks better than federers and i have seen federer miss more than a few easy volleys from what looks like being too lax so i can see where mcenroe gets that from imo. federer also looks like he hits alot of his volleys late and doesnt attack them like nadal does. that said i think federer has more potential on his volleys as long as he doesnt get too careless

Ms Nadal
09-30-2012, 01:58 AM
Rafa is able to volley well but he doesn't do it often but when he does the volleys are good!

cc0509
09-30-2012, 02:00 AM
Federer and Murray are better volleyers than Nadal. Djokovic is the least proficient volleyer out of top 4 although he seems more than eager to finish the points at net.

I agree with all of this.

Sabratha
09-30-2012, 04:14 AM
Federer is the best volleyer of the top four and the top ten.

Rock Strongo
09-30-2012, 05:20 AM
Nadal approaches the net 4 times every six months, it's easy to look good then. Agreeing with some above, Federer and Murray are better volleyers with Nadal and Djokovic lagging behind.

PeteD
09-30-2012, 05:28 AM
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy279/redimagineer/roger-federer-volley-wimbledon-2011-3rd-round.jpg

Polvorin
09-30-2012, 05:45 AM
You guys ever watched nadal play doubles? His volleys are good. His volleys in singles are good too. Way better than federer, you guys just don't want to accept it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzeAm6224Lg

Here's a good display of their net abilities. Head to head in doubles. Tell me...which player took control of the match at the net?

PeteD
09-30-2012, 06:55 AM
Thanks for the link -- that's quite a YouTube -- entire match in HD. Anyways yup, Rog was clicking beautifully at net, Rafa not so much

AnotherTennisProdigy
09-30-2012, 07:04 AM
I can't remember the last time Rafa hit a half-volley. Why is this the case? It's because a half-volley requires for the ball to bounce. However that never happens since he is always hitting the ball in the air with plenty of time to spare. This basically shows that Rafa will only come to the net if it is all but guaranteed that he will finish the point.

Even Novak goes to the net to put pressure on the opponent. This is why I think Roger is better, he is able to deal with tougher situations at the net and still do well.

Ms Nadal
09-30-2012, 07:17 AM
They all volley well. I am not picking favourites as people are doing! Give credit where it is due. Each player has a different style as a result some will volley more than others. So it is kinda hard to pick an outright winner. But, people are choosing their favourite players And everyone thinks Rafa doesn't play tennis properly, don''t they?!

kaku
09-30-2012, 07:25 AM
Fed is the best, Murray a distant second Rafa a little below Murray and then Novak

Nathaniel_Near
09-30-2012, 07:34 AM
They all volley well. I am not picking favourites as people are doing! Give credit where it is due. Each player has a different style as a result some will volley more than others. So it is kinda hard to pick an outright winner. But, people are choosing their favourite players And everyone thinks Rafa doesn't play tennis properly, don''t they?!

Rafa is the best in several areas, volleying isn't one of them, not even among the top 4. Look at how Roger used the net consistently and with devastating effect in an event as mammoth as the Wimbledon Final 2012, against Andy Murray. There's little comparison. I agree with others as well that Nole is more willing to use the net than Nadal though Nadal's volleys may *possibly* be marginally better.

My favourite players is Roger Federer. Rafael Nadal historically has the best mental fortitude, stamina, shots on the absolute full run, defence and possibly speed of the current top 4. I don't pick Roger's volleys over the others because he's my fave player, I pick them because *they are in profound likelihood the best*.

Federer:

Forehand
Footwork
Offence
Volleys
Serve
Drop-shot
Slice

Nadal:

Mental fortitude
Stamina
Passing shots
Defence
Speed
Stroke consistency
Top spin

Djokovic:

Return
Lobs
Flexibility/recovery
Changing direction of the ball
Backhand

Murray:

Cat and mouse exchanges (Throwing him a bone)

I'm probably forgetting some things.

Ms Nadal
09-30-2012, 07:39 AM
Nathaniel Near Thank you for giving Rafa some praise! That is what I like to hear! :)

beast of mallorca
09-30-2012, 08:00 AM
Murray:

Cat and mouse exchanges (Throwing him a bone)

I'm probably forgetting some things.

No respect for Murray there Nathaniel !!
Here's some more bones:
I think he's one of the most cunning players out there, even better than Fed/Rafa
Great at changing ball directions.
Great at ROS, underrated imho.
Backhand
Excellent anticipation

TJfederer16
09-30-2012, 08:19 AM
The thing is Rafa seems to be more efficient at the net just because he only comes in when there's a perfect opportunity to put away an easy volley so rarely ever misses them, whereas the likes of Roger and Murray they both come in quite a bit so more than likely have to make more than one volley to win the point therefore there going to lose quite a few points as well, i have to say though since Roger has hired annacone his volleying has been fantastic because a couple of years ago he did become pretty poor at the net, but he's certainly got it back now, Murray is also a fantastic volleyer, its definitely between them two, but i'd say Roger because he's a little more willing to come in.

dangalak
09-30-2012, 09:24 AM
Rafa is the best in several areas, volleying isn't one of them, not even among the top 4. Look at how Roger used the net consistently and with devastating effect in an event as mammoth as the Wimbledon Final 2012, against Andy Murray. There's little comparison. I agree with others as well that Nole is more willing to use the net than Nadal though Nadal's volleys may *possibly* be marginally better.

My favourite players is Roger Federer. Rafael Nadal historically has the best mental fortitude, stamina, shots on the absolute full run, defence and possibly speed of the current top 4. I don't pick Roger's volleys over the others because he's my fave player, I pick them because *they are in profound likelihood the best*.

Federer:

Forehand
Footwork
Offence
Volleys
Serve
Drop-shot
Slice

Nadal:

Mental fortitude
Stamina
Passing shots
Defence
Speed
Stroke consistency
Top spin

Djokovic:

Return
Lobs
Flexibility/recovery
Changing direction of the ball
Backhand

Murray:

Cat and mouse exchanges (Throwing him a bone)

I'm probably forgetting some things.

Djokovic a better returner than Murray? Better BH? Better anticipation and lobs?

I don't think so.

The thing is Rafa seems to be more efficient at the net just because he only comes in when there's a perfect opportunity to put away an easy volley so rarely ever misses them, whereas the likes of Roger and Murray they both come in quite a bit so more than likely have to make more than one volley to win the point therefore there going to lose quite a few points as well, i have to say though since Roger has hired annacone his volleying has been fantastic because a couple of years ago he did become pretty poor at the net, but he's certainly got it back now, Murray is also a fantastic volleyer, its definitely between them two, but i'd say Roger because he's a little more willing to come in.

:lol: No.

Zarfot Z
09-30-2012, 05:16 PM
Nadal approaches the net in an entire season the same amount of times that Federer does in a single match, if not more.

smoledman
09-30-2012, 05:20 PM
Let me know when Nadal wins a slam approaching the net 60+ times like Fed just did.

Federer Wimbledon final net stats 53 of 68 = 78 %

RF20Lennon
09-30-2012, 06:26 PM
Federer in his prime was way better but as a result of age he hasnt been bending low enough to get low balls and has been missing volleys
Also the fact that Rafa's stats are better because he goes up to net on only put aways! he doesnt chip and charge or hit aggressive shots and charge like fed and nole.
As a result Rafa has a higher success rate!! Put Federer has more natural talent at net. Murray is great!! Djokovic is not worth enough to clean Edberg's shoes in that department

smoledman
09-30-2012, 07:10 PM
Federer in his prime was way better but as a result of age he hasnt been bending low enough to get low balls and has been missing volleys
Also the fact that Rafa's stats are better because he goes up to net on only put aways! he doesnt chip and charge or hit aggressive shots and charge like fed and nole.
As a result Rafa has a higher success rate!! Put Federer has more natural talent at net. Murray is great!! Djokovic is not worth enough to clean Edberg's shoes in that department

http://omgtru.com/highfive.gif

Nathaniel_Near
10-01-2012, 10:36 AM
Djokovic a better returner than Murray? Better BH? Better anticipation and lobs?

I don't think so.



:lol: No.

I do, though I don't recall mentioning anticipation.

tennis_pro
10-01-2012, 11:04 AM
Djokovic a better returner than Murray? Better BH? Better anticipation and lobs?

I don't think so.



:lol: No.

Djokovic has 10 times the backhand Murray has. Their returns are comparable. I agree with the rest.

TJfederer16
10-01-2012, 01:51 PM
:lol: No.[/QUOTE]

When i say quite a bit i mean compared to most players these days, Roger has definitely come in a lot more lately and also Murray against the likes of Roger and Novak at the Olympics and USO, obviously not when comparing it to previous era's but in this era i'd say they come in more regularly than pretty much every other player on tour apart from a couple of old school S&V's like Llodra, Stepanek, Lopez and also perhaps Tsonga and Fish but thats about it.

tennis_pro
10-01-2012, 01:58 PM
well nadal rarely misses up there and has excellent reflexes and technique which looks almost perfect to me. his technique looks better than federers and i have seen federer miss more than a few easy volleys from what looks like being too lax so i can see where mcenroe gets that from imo. federer also looks like he hits alot of his volleys late and doesnt attack them like nadal does. that said i think federer has more potential on his volleys as long as he doesnt get too careless

It's hard to mess up if you come in twice en average in every match and both times on easy putaways.

I agree what you wrote later on, especially about Federer being careless. He can show up at the net in a big match if forced, though, don't look far - the 2012 Wimbledon final and the best example the 2007 AO final where he volleyed insanely well.

NadalAgassi
10-01-2012, 01:59 PM
Djokovic has 10 times the backhand Murray has.

Isnt that an exagerration. Murray's backhand is also one of the best in the game today. Also if Murray's backhand was that much worse than Djokovic he wouldnt be able to rally with him from the baseline at all which he is able to do. Djokovic's forehand is much better, that is clear, and Djokovic is probably even faster.

tennis_pro
10-01-2012, 02:05 PM
Isnt that an exagerration. Murray's backhand is also one of the best in the game today. Also if Murray's backhand was that much worse than Djokovic he wouldnt be able to rally with him from the baseline at all which he is able to do. Djokovic's forehand is much better, that is clear, and Djokovic is probably even faster.

10 times is a bit too harsh I guess but Djokovic's backhand is clearly better than Murray's, especially if both are at their best. Djokovic can smack winners both crosscourt and DTL, has better control, can change direction more easily, better on the run, better on the defense, better passing shots. The only areas in which Murray's backhand is superior is the slice and pace if he's really going for it.

NadalAgassi
10-01-2012, 02:07 PM
10 times is a bit too harsh I guess but Djokovic's backhand is clearly better than Murray's, especially if both are at their best. Djokovic can smack winners both crosscourt and DTL, has better control, can change direction more easily, better on the run, better on the defense, better passing shots. The only areas in which Murray's backhand is better is the slice and pace if he's really going for it.

I guess but it is amazing then to think how Murray even competes so evenly with Djokovic from the baseline. His forehand is worse by a greater margin than the backhand, and Djokovic is actually faster and a better defender too. I guess it is his ability to construct points and change the pace.

tennis_pro
10-01-2012, 02:11 PM
I guess but it is amazing then to think how Murray even competes so evenly with Djokovic from the baseline. His forehand is worse by a greater margin than the backhand, and Djokovic is actually faster and a better defender too. I guess it is his ability to construct points and change the pace.

That's Murray for you.

I don't think the difference in forehands is much bigger than in the backhands. Murray's forehand is more steady, it's not a winner machine but I have very rarely seen it break down. As for Djokovic, it really depends which Novak shows up. I have seen him own the forehand side as seen in the Del Potro match at the US Open and then repeatedly commit easy errors in another match.

smoledman
10-01-2012, 02:17 PM
Federer is in the Llodra class in volleying for the most part. Nadal isn't even as good as Djokovic.

dangalak
10-01-2012, 02:23 PM
Isnt that an exagerration. Murray's backhand is also one of the best in the game today. Also if Murray's backhand was that much worse than Djokovic he wouldnt be able to rally with him from the baseline at all which he is able to do. Djokovic's forehand is much better, that is clear, and Djokovic is probably even faster.

I think they would be pretty close in sheer speed. I feel Djokovic is more agile/flexible though.

10 times is a bit too harsh I guess but Djokovic's backhand is clearly better than Murray's, especially if both are at their best. Djokovic can smack winners both crosscourt and DTL, has better control, can change direction more easily, better on the run, better on the defense, better passing shots. The only areas in which Murray's backhand is superior is the slice and pace if he's really going for it.

Disagree. Djokovic's BH can't handle slice at all. And his BH CC is weirdly overrated. I have seen him struggle to pull Federer out to the tramlines a lot. Murray never struggles to create angle.

They are very close there and Murray has a vastly superior slice.

What Murray has on Djokovic is anticipation and variety IMO. I don't see Djokovic being a superior defender tbh. He may be harder to put on defense in the first place but Murray is better when bullied around, almost like Nadal.

tennis_pro
10-01-2012, 02:30 PM
Federer is in the Llodra class in volleying for the most part. Nadal isn't even as good as Djokovic.

Nadal for all the crap that he gets actually volleys better than Djokovic currently. Back in 2008 Novak not only was vastly superior in volleying than Nadal but was actually a pretty good volleyer overall. His skills deteriorated with time.

smoledman
10-01-2012, 02:51 PM
Nadal for all the crap that he gets actually volleys better than Djokovic currently. Back in 2008 Novak not only was vastly superior in volleying than Nadal but was actually a pretty good volleyer overall. His skills deteriorated with time.

Whereas Federer skills increase with time as his raw agility/speed decreases. Nadal is a one-trick pony that gets worse with age.

LeeD
10-01-2012, 02:56 PM
While Nadal is a one trick pony in singles, his doubles play, especially his net play, is vastly superior to all but the best volleyer's on the men's tour today.
He just chooses to grind from the baseline in singles.