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View Full Version : Can you rank these women in terms of big hitting?


dangalak
10-01-2012, 12:38 AM
I mean, if these players were to face each other, who would overpower whom?

Henin, Clijsters, Capriati, Seles, Kuznetsova, Sharapova, Dementieva, Azarenka, Graf, Li Na, Ivanovic

Keep in mind that overpowering doesn't mean winning. I'm pretty sure Hingis didn't hit anywhere as big as Seles, yet she would typically beat her.

Li Na :)
Sharapova
Ivanovic
Seles
Kuznetsova
Dementieva
Capriati
Clijsters
Graf
Henin
Azarenka

Russeljones
10-01-2012, 01:06 AM
Obvious question: where is Lindsay Davenport?

Babolatbarry
10-01-2012, 01:58 AM
Don't the Williams sisters hit it hard too....?

PSNELKE
10-01-2012, 02:37 AM
Davenport had the smoothest shotmaking abilities I have ever seen on the WTA Tour.

DRII
10-01-2012, 04:19 AM
Most pace: Venus Williams

Consistently heaviest ball: Davenport

Serena is somewhere in the middle.

DRII
10-01-2012, 04:22 AM
Out of the women you chose (somewhat randomly it seems like); Sharapova hits the heaviest off the ground, but Azeranka hits the ball earlier (almost as early as Seles did).

NadalAgassi
10-01-2012, 05:50 AM
Li Na
Sharapova
Graf
Seles
Henin
Clijsters
Kuznetsova
Dementieva
Ivanovic
Capriati
Azarenka

Would be my order I guess

halalula1234
10-01-2012, 06:53 AM
Seles
Li na
Dementieva
Sharapova
Azarenka
Henin
Ivanovic
Clijsters
Graf
Capriati

Its very had to order them. they are all really powerful!
except i would go with seles for having the most powershots consistently + most accurate.

Probably graf or clijsters or ivanovic for the forehand

and henin or sharapova and seles for backhand

NadalAgassi
10-01-2012, 08:19 AM
There is no way Graf is so far behind Seles in power as you have her. Even when Seles was dominating the game she was flat out overpowered by Graf in some one sided losses at Wimbledon 92, U.S Hard Courts 91, most of the match at Hamburg 91, having way less winners, and being bullied around the court by Graf's serve and forehand power. So to have them that far apart is impossible.

Also there is no way Dementieva, Azarenka, Ivanovic, and Clijsters are more powerful than Graf. Ivanovic's only powerful shot is her forehand, and even that is far less than Graf's was. Ivanovic the biggest forehand, LOL, Kvitova, Na, and Serena can all shred her off that side, even a 33 year old semi retired mommy Davenport did. Azarenka and Dementieva have only moderately good power at best.

MSK
10-01-2012, 08:22 AM
Laura Robson

Gizo
10-01-2012, 11:59 AM
What about Mary Pierce? In terms of raw power on her groundstrokes, she has to be right up there.

NadalAgassi
10-01-2012, 12:16 PM
What about Mary Pierce? In terms of raw power on her groundstrokes, she has to be right up there.

This is a wierd list as it doesnt include Serena, Venus, Davenport, Kvitova, Pierce, Lucic, who arguably all hit harder than anyone on the original list. Even Huber, Majoli, Maggie Maleeva, Myskina, Barbara Schwarz, Kimiko Date, Tulyganova, Nadia Petrova, and others hit harder than some of the women on the OP list.

Power Player
10-01-2012, 12:19 PM
Stosur hits bigger than any of them.

bluetrain4
10-01-2012, 12:24 PM
Seriously, no 2-time Slam winner (and 4-time RU) Mary Pierce? Smacked the heck out of the ball. When "on" she was pretty scary. Certainly one of the hardest hitters ever.

BTW, I immediately posted after seeing the poll. Now I see that some people have already questioned Pierce's absence.

Gizo
10-01-2012, 12:40 PM
This is a wierd list as it doesnt include Serena, Venus, Davenport, Kvitova, Pierce, Lucic, who arguably all hit harder than anyone on the original list. Even Huber, Majoli, Maggie Maleeva, Myskina, Barbara Schwarz, Kimiko Date, Tulyganova, Nadia Petrova, and others hit harder than some of the women on the OP list.

Agreed. Azarenka especially was a strange choice to have on a list like this.

Obviously winning junior slams doesn't mean a player is necessarily going to have successful pro career, but the recent US Open girls' champion Samantha Crawford is incredibly powerful, both with her serve and from the back of the court.

It will be interesting to see how she progresses over the next few years.

dangalak
10-01-2012, 02:09 PM
Obvious question: where is Lindsay Davenport?

Davenport had the smoothest shotmaking abilities I have ever seen on the WTA Tour.

Out of the women you chose (somewhat randomly it seems like); Sharapova hits the heaviest off the ground, but Azeranka hits the ball earlier (almost as early as Seles did).

Li Na
Sharapova
Graf
Seles
Henin
Clijsters
Kuznetsova
Dementieva
Ivanovic
Capriati
Azarenka

Would be my order I guess

There is no way Graf is so far behind Seles in power as you have her. Even when Seles was dominating the game she was flat out overpowered by Graf in some one sided losses at Wimbledon 92, U.S Hard Courts 91, most of the match at Hamburg 91, having way less winners, and being bullied around the court by Graf's serve and forehand power. So to have them that far apart is impossible.

Also there is no way Dementieva, Azarenka, Ivanovic, and Clijsters are more powerful than Graf. Ivanovic's only powerful shot is her forehand, and even that is far less than Graf's was. Ivanovic the biggest forehand, LOL, Kvitova, Na, and Serena can all shred her off that side, even a 33 year old semi retired mommy Davenport did. Azarenka and Dementieva have only moderately good power at best.

This is a wierd list as it doesnt include Serena, Venus, Davenport, Kvitova, Pierce, Lucic, who arguably all hit harder than anyone on the original list. Even Huber, Majoli, Maggie Maleeva, Myskina, Barbara Schwarz, Kimiko Date, Tulyganova, Nadia Petrova, and others hit harder than some of the women on the OP list.

Agreed. Azarenka especially was a strange choice to have on a list like this.

Obviously winning junior slams doesn't mean a player is necessarily going to have successful pro career, but the recent US Open girls' champion Samantha Crawford is incredibly powerful, both with her serve and from the back of the court.

It will be interesting to see how she progresses over the next few years.

I didn't put up WS, Davenport and Pierce since I am already sure that they hit harder than any of these.

This list was for players I wasn't sure about.

NadalAgassi
10-01-2012, 02:12 PM
I didn't put up WS, Davenport and Pierce since I am already sure that they hit harder than any of these.

This list was for players I wasn't sure about.

Fair enough but Azarenka doesnt belong with those others. She isnt even that big a hitter. I would say in sheer power she is as far behind the very top (Serena) as she is ahead of say Wozniacki or Radwanska.

dangalak
10-01-2012, 02:14 PM
I find it weird that you consider Ivanovic so low. I mean, she may not be Pierce, but she regularly overpowered Kuznetsova whom you have above her IIRC.

NadalAgassi
10-01-2012, 02:19 PM
Ivanovic's peak was really short. Are we considering just peaks or whole careers. Kuznetsova often plays without a brain, but when she was on fire she hit bigger overall than Ana ever did IMO. Have you ever seen Ana hit bigger than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1UXm0fMWhU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrVogvTxe4o

Consdering Ana's peak tennis was only mid 2007-mid 2008 and Svetlana's only showed up about 20% of the time throughout her prime of 2004-2009 they probably played about the same amount of peak tennis, with Ana consistently produced over a small time period far more likely to occur the times they played during this period. Anyway I didnt watch all their matches, but maybe Ana was just a bad matchup or someone Kuznetsova developed a mental block against, I dont know, I dont judge how I rate their abilities and power just on their H2H though.

Ana's only real powerful shot is her big forehand. What other weapons or big power shots does she have? Backhand, no, Serve, not really, Net game, LOL! That is the main reason I gave Kuznetsova the edge. She can attack from more shots than Ana can.

rdis10093
10-01-2012, 02:31 PM
umm what about caroline?











jk.

rdis10093
10-01-2012, 02:32 PM
power is not everything though

dangalak
10-01-2012, 08:47 PM
Kind of hardcore that a small woman like Li Na hits so hard.

Ripster
10-01-2012, 08:54 PM
Kvitova hits harder than all those on the list. Probably hits the hardest backhand on the WTA (maybe Li Na as well).

Kuznetsova and Ivanovic for biggest forehand.

dangalak
10-01-2012, 09:07 PM
Kvitova hits harder than all those on the list. Probably hits the hardest backhand on the WTA (maybe Li Na as well).

Kuznetsova and Ivanovic for biggest forehand.

:lol:

> reads OP
> "Rank THESE players in terms of power"
> yaps about how somebody not on the list hits harder

bluetrain4
10-01-2012, 09:43 PM
power is not everything though

I don't think anyone is saying that it is everything.

DRII
10-02-2012, 05:40 AM
Fair enough but Azarenka doesnt belong with those others. She isnt even that big a hitter. I would say in sheer power she is as far behind the very top (Serena) as she is ahead of say Wozniacki or Radwanska.

Azeranka is most certainly a big hitter, as far as this generation is concerned. She also takes the ball consistently earlier than any of the other women.

She can, and has, overpowered every one in the last few years; besides a healthy Serena and Venus. She's certainly out hit Sharapova, not by just sheer power but still...

DRII
10-02-2012, 05:45 AM
There is no way Graf is so far behind Seles in power as you have her. Even when Seles was dominating the game she was flat out overpowered by Graf in some one sided losses at Wimbledon 92, U.S Hard Courts 91, most of the match at Hamburg 91, having way less winners, and being bullied around the court by Graf's serve and forehand power. So to have them that far apart is impossible.

Also there is no way Dementieva, Azarenka, Ivanovic, and Clijsters are more powerful than Graf. Ivanovic's only powerful shot is her forehand, and even that is far less than Graf's was. Ivanovic the biggest forehand, LOL, Kvitova, Na, and Serena can all shred her off that side, even a 33 year old semi retired mommy Davenport did. Azarenka and Dementieva have only moderately good power at best.


Graf never really out powered Seles, but she did out manuver her many times (as you stated (in bold)). Graf took advantage of Seles' limited movement (especially on grass). Much like Federer does to Delpo, but few would say that Federer has more power overall than Delpo...

dangalak
10-02-2012, 11:14 AM
Azeranka is most certainly a big hitter, as far as this generation is concerned. She also takes the ball consistently earlier than any of the other women.

She can, and has, overpowered every one in the last few years; besides a healthy Serena and Venus. She's certainly out hit Sharapova, not by just sheer power but still...

:lol:

No.

Clijsters can blow her off the court. Hell, Cibulkova was doing it too.

NadalAgassi
10-02-2012, 11:30 AM
Graf never really out powered Seles, but she did out manuver her many times (as you stated (in bold)). Graf took advantage of Seles' limited movement (especially on grass).

Umm you obviously did not watch some of their matches. Graf has flat out overpowered Seles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwdeBBzhdPA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiFHwjWBNnI&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKUCsHTMXWI

Also Seles pre stabbing had quite good mobility, not Graf or Sanchez level, but as good as pretty much anyone else on tour at the time. Seles ONLY had problems with people who had as much or more power than her, people like Davenport, Venus, Serena, Graf, and on occasion Pierce and Capriati. All except for Hingis, who was a tactical genius with impeccable timing, the best ball control in the game at the time, and who negated her power deficit by being the only player at the time who took the ball as early as Seles did. You did not beat Seles by just maneuvering her around, those who tried to do that got the crap beat out of them regularly- Sabatini, Sanchez, Huber, Majoli, Martinez.

Graf has a bigger serve than Seles, a bigger forehand, move penetrating volleys, and a bigger overhead, so how can Seles be WAY ahead in power. I would rate them roughly equal in power, whoever is ahead is only 1 or 2 people ahead of the other at best. Either way there is no way people like Azarenka, Ivanovic, Capriati, Dementieva, even Clijsters overall rate above Graf in power. The only players who have more power than Graf are ones who hit very hard off both sides and some cases have bigger serves. Those players (minus Azarenka who has a better backhand than forehand, better return than serve, but unexceptional power off any shot) are pretty much forehand only players like Graf, and Graf easily has a bigger forehand and bigger serve than all of those. What shot does Ivanovic hit with more power than Graf, lol!

NadalAgassi
10-02-2012, 11:37 AM
Azeranka is most certainly a big hitter, as far as this generation is concerned. She also takes the ball consistently earlier than any of the other women.

She can, and has, overpowered every one in the last few years; besides a healthy Serena and Venus. She's certainly out hit Sharapova, not by just sheer power but still...

Your statement of Graf vs Seles would be better applied to Sharapova vs Azarenka. Azarenka outmaneuvers Sharapova and takes advantage of both her limited mobility, and her own superior consistency. She in no way overpowers her.

DRII
10-02-2012, 11:47 AM
Your statement of Graf vs Seles would be better applied to Sharapova vs Azarenka. Azarenka outmaneuvers Sharapova and takes advantage of both her limited mobility, and her own superior consistency. She in no way overpowers her.

I'm basically applying power as the differential between space and time. Either you hit the ball with more pace and penetration or you take it earlier (or whichever combination); with the same result: robbing your opponent of time.

Azeranka takes the ball earlier than any of the other women right now; she takes more time away from Sharapova on avarage than vice versa.

I'm talking off the ground here, not serve...

NadalAgassi
10-02-2012, 11:50 AM
I'm basically applying power as the differential between space and time. Either you hit the ball with more pace and penetration or you take it earlier (or whichever combination); with the same result: robbing your opponent of time.

Azeranka takes the ball earlier than any of the other women right now; she takes more time away from Sharapova on avarage than vice versa.

I'm talking off the ground here, not serve...

Fair enough. I still dont think Azarenka comes ahead of Sharapova even in the differential between space and time, although it might be somewhat close. I dont just judge between their head to head matches, Azarenka has developed confidence vs Sharapova and plays above her usual level when they play, while Sharapova lacks confidence vs Azarenka similar to how she does vs Serena after a few bad showings vs her. I am judging by how they look vs all the women in general. Plus I think the serve should be factored into "big hitting" always.

dangalak
10-02-2012, 12:15 PM
Umm you obviously did not watch some of their matches. Graf has flat out overpowered Seles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwdeBBzhdPA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiFHwjWBNnI&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKUCsHTMXWI

Also Seles pre stabbing had quite good mobility, not Graf or Sanchez level, but as good as pretty much anyone else on tour at the time. Seles ONLY had problems with people who had as much or more power than her, people like Davenport, Venus, Serena, Graf, and on occasion Pierce and Capriati. All except for Hingis, who was a tactical genius with impeccable timing, the best ball control in the game at the time, and who negated her power deficit by being the only player at the time who took the ball as early as Seles did. You did not beat Seles by just maneuvering her around, those who tried to do that got the crap beat out of them regularly- Sabatini, Sanchez, Huber, Majoli, Martinez.

Graf has a bigger serve than Seles, a bigger forehand, move penetrating volleys, and a bigger overhead, so how can Seles be WAY ahead in power. I would rate them roughly equal in power, whoever is ahead is only 1 or 2 people ahead of the other at best. Either way there is no way people like Azarenka, Ivanovic, Capriati, Dementieva, even Clijsters overall rate above Graf in power. The only players who have more power than Graf are ones who hit very hard off both sides and some cases have bigger serves. Those players (minus Azarenka who has a better backhand than forehand, better return than serve, but unexceptional power off any shot) are pretty much forehand only players like Graf, and Graf easily has a bigger forehand and bigger serve than all of those. What shot does Ivanovic hit with more power than Graf, lol!

I think you're overrating Graf's power. She had a better and more potent FH than Ivanovic (not to mention more consistent) but more powerful? I dunno.

She could hit winners from the most awkward positions much like Federer, but saying Ivanovic has as much or more weight of shot from that side isn't all that ridiculous.

Not to mention she served in the mid 125s IIRC. And her backhand, while a terrible shot, is only so weak because she is afraid to hit it. When confident (e.g. AO 2008) her backhand isn't weak at all. Certainly stronger than Graf's BH. :lol:

kiki
10-02-2012, 12:21 PM
How many have been succesful at using all that power to win majors? that is the real question.Graf,Seles,Pierce,Davenport,Capriati,Sere na and Venus and Sharapova.The others pale in comparison.

dangalak
10-02-2012, 12:27 PM
How many have been succesful at using all that power to win majors? that is the real question.Graf,Seles,Pierce,Davenport,Capriati,Sere na and Venus and Sharapova.The others pale in comparison.

God, just get the hell out of my face, will you.

This is the kind of person I loathe the most: the kind of guy who is truly clueless but believes himself to be competent.

If I wanted to know "who was good at using their power to win majors" I would've looked who won the most majors.

Gee Evert won 18 while Sharapova won 4. That must mean that Evert would blow her off the court with ease. :?

How many have been succesful at using all that power to win majors? that is the real question.

No it's not. The real question is the one I asked in the opening post.

dominikk1985
10-02-2012, 12:31 PM
I mean, if these players were to face each other, who would overpower whom?

Henin, Clijsters, Capriati, Seles, Kuznetsova, Sharapova, Dementieva, Azarenka, Graf, Li Na, Ivanovic

Keep in mind that overpowering doesn't mean winning. I'm pretty sure Hingis didn't hit anywhere as big as Seles, yet she would typically beat her.

Li Na :)
Sharapova
Ivanovic
Seles
Kuznetsova
Dementieva
Capriati
Clijsters
Graf
Henin
Azarenka

sharapova and henin are the biggest hitters of that group.

dominikk1985
10-02-2012, 12:37 PM
Fair enough but Azarenka doesnt belong with those others. She isnt even that big a hitter. I would say in sheer power she is as far behind the very top (Serena) as she is ahead of say Wozniacki or Radwanska.

azarenka hits the ball very hard. she just doesn't have that finishing "killer" shot. she usually needs to smack the ball hard a lot of times to hit a winner. she's more like a power grinder.

dangalak
10-02-2012, 12:55 PM
azarenka hits the ball very hard. she just doesn't have that finishing "killer" shot. she usually needs to smack the ball hard a lot of times to hit a winner. she's more like a power grinder.

The thing is, "players that hit very hard" typically don't need to grind.

There is a reason why some fans like to call her "PID" (pusher in disguise)

sharapova and henin are the biggest hitters of that group.

With all due respect, but Henin isn't that powerful. :)

Alexandros
10-02-2012, 02:06 PM
All the women named can hit powerful, heavy balls when they have time to set up.

The differentiator I would say is that Clijsters, Capriati, Graf, Henin and Seles could bring consistent power from all parts of the court and at end range/full stretch their power doesn't diminish significantly.

If you get Sharapova and Ivanovic moving side to side their shots lose bite and they tend to roll the ball back in, though Ivanovic is lethal when given time to set up her forehand and similarly with Sharapova's backhand.

Azarenka and Dementieva derive a lot of their 'power' from taking the ball early, pushed back off the baseline and their shots lose their sting.

Li Na and Kuznetsova have the athletic ability of the first group but are way too inconsistent.




With all due respect, but Henin isn't that powerful. :)

Henin regularly hit more winners than any opponents not named Williams (and even then she occasionally bested them). I remember Lindsay Davenport saying in an interview after losing to her at Indian Wells that she had the best forehand of any woman at the time.

dangalak
10-02-2012, 06:39 PM
All the women named can hit powerful, heavy balls when they have time to set up.

The differentiator I would say is that Clijsters, Capriati, Graf, Henin and Seles could bring consistent power from all parts of the court and at end range/full stretch their power doesn't diminish significantly.

If you get Sharapova and Ivanovic moving side to side their shots lose bite and they tend to roll the ball back in, though Ivanovic is lethal when given time to set up her forehand and similarly with Sharapova's backhand.

Azarenka and Dementieva derive a lot of their 'power' from taking the ball early, pushed back off the baseline and their shots lose their sting.

Li Na and Kuznetsova have the athletic ability of the first group but are way too inconsistent.

1. I don't think Dementieva belongs to the same group as Azarenka does. What did Capriati do that Dementieva couldn't?

2. I don't think Li Na is all that athletic to be honest. Neither was Seles.

Russeljones
10-02-2012, 11:48 PM
sharapova and henin are the biggest hitters of that group.

Yeah that Henin regularly burst balls on her 2nd serve..

dominikk1985
10-02-2012, 11:48 PM
1. I don't think Dementieva belongs to the same group as Azarenka does. What did Capriati do that Dementieva couldn't?

2. I don't think Li Na is all that athletic to be honest. Neither was Seles.

I think that dementieve was one of the best baseliners in history. could take the ball early, hit it hard and with great consistency.

unfortunately she had the worst serve in history of tennis. that's a 4.5 serve at best:D. (some hit slow second serve and some are erratic- but she was both:D)

Alexandros
10-03-2012, 04:07 AM
1. I don't think Dementieva belongs to the same group as Azarenka does. What did Capriati do that Dementieva couldn't?

2. I don't think Li Na is all that athletic to be honest. Neither was Seles.



Capriati's game and playstyle is a slightly inferior version of Clijsters' in my opinion. Great defense, easy power from all parts of the court, decent serve and volleys, forehand is the primary weapon but can misfire, somewhat flaky mentally.

I might be a bit harsh on Dementieva but from the matches of her I've seen when she played against the top tier players (Davenport, Henin, Williams etc) once they push her off the baseline her shots lose depth and power.

Agree about Seles not being particularly athletic, but she still hit exceptionally well on the run, maintaining depth and pace. Li Na vs Clijsters in Aussie Open 2011 was one of the most athletic women's finals in ages.