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Ross K
10-03-2012, 10:16 PM
By tweener I mean something like my APD Original... 100" head-size, lightish, designed for power/spin/baseline play.

As well as a tad more control, feel, solidness and build quality, the important aspect for me is frame stiffness, RA. I know the way frames are categorized in this regard can be imprecise or up for debate whatever, but FWIW, 67 or 68 or so, that seems to be a stiff as I like a frame.

Reports on the APD 2013 having a 74 RA scares me... The Juice 100 appeals to me, but the 72 RA does not... There are certain frames I've played in the past (TF 315, MG Extreme Pro, PDR) that all seem to be about 70 RA and I just haven't been able to tolerate the harsh vibrations etc... The new Extreme 2.0 slightly intrigues me (though memories of that older Extreme are bad)... but The Yonex 100S is kind interesting me again.

Anyhow, there seems to be a fair number of tweenerish frames out there that would probably suit me - but a lot of them are like 70 or 70+ stiffness.

So... and the best tweenerish frame out there that won't shred your arm to pieces is...? :)

TIA

Hi I'm Ray
10-03-2012, 11:20 PM
Hey Ross. Didn't realize you had any adversions to stiff rackets. I thought you were fine with them since you used TB16 and that the Pro#1 issues were because of the extra stiff customized frame. Where would you rank the APD OG in terms of stiffness/harshness?

Being a racketaholic, it might be easier to know which tweeners you've already tried. Also, are you going for more power, or is feel more important?

Have you tried the Exo3 Tour, 400T, or BB London?

RollTrackTake
10-03-2012, 11:31 PM
tougher question than I thought with some people putting certain racquets in sub-categories but...

1. BLX Pro Open
2. Warrior EXO3
3. Formula 100

Bartelby
10-04-2012, 12:06 AM
I can't see a need for a racquet over about 68 RA.

Shaochieh
10-04-2012, 02:06 AM
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Yonex_EZONE_Xi_98/descpageRCYONEX-YEZX98.html

Ramon
10-04-2012, 03:27 AM
I haven't tried it yet, but the new Pro Kennex Q5 is 67 RA. They made it quite a bit stiffer than the Ki 5, and that was probably done to differentiate from the QTour. It's really looking more like a tweener on specs.

Xonemains
10-04-2012, 04:00 AM
Donnay Formula. Best feel out of all of them. Very comfy too.

smirker
10-04-2012, 04:05 AM
By tweener I mean something like my APD Original... 100" head-size, lightish, designed for power/spin/baseline play.

As well as a tad more control, feel, solidness and build quality, the important aspect for me is frame stiffness, RA. I know the way frames are categorized in this regard can be imprecise or up for debate whatever, but FWIW, 67 or 68 or so, that seems to be a stiff as I like a frame.

Reports on the APD 2013 having a 74 RA scares me... The Juice 100 appeals to me, but the 72 RA does not... There are certain frames I've played in the past (TF 315, MG Extreme Pro, PDR) that all seem to be about 70 RA and I just haven't been able to tolerate the harsh vibrations etc... The new Extreme 2.0 slightly intrigues me (though memories of that older Extreme are bad)... but The Yonex 100S is kind interesting me again.

Anyhow, there seems to be a fair number of tweenerish frames out there that would probably suit me - but a lot of them are like 70 or 70+ stiffness.

So... and the best tweenerish frame out there that won't shred your arm to pieces is...? :)

TIA

Think you have played it before but the Prince Ozone Tour gets my vote for performance and comfort combined. Was hitting with it last night and it provides just the right amount of power and tons of spin. Nice serve/volley frame too. Trialling a Yonex Xi 100 too but the jury's out on that one.

ollinger
10-04-2012, 04:12 AM
Q5....they actually tout its medical benefits on the inner aspect of the shaft, and I understand why after using it.

goherd27
10-04-2012, 04:43 AM
Q5....they actually tout its medical benefits on the inner aspect of the shaft, and I understand why after using it.

Are you using the 315 version? Do you have thoughts on how it compares to the Ki5?

Ross K
10-04-2012, 05:10 AM
Hey Ross. Didn't realize you had any adversions to stiff rackets. I thought you were fine with them since you used TB16 and that the Pro#1 issues were because of the extra stiff customized frame. Where would you rank the APD OG in terms of stiffness/harshness?

Being a racketaholic, it might be easier to know which tweeners you've already tried. Also, are you going for more power, or is feel more important?

Have you tried the Exo3 Tour, 400T, or BB London?

Re RA I prefer crisp/soft but seem to do better with stiff, if you follow me, eg being I've played a lot over the years with various Babs and 6.1's and they seem to fit with my requirements. Softer frames (like the Exo 100) I find it harder to access that put away/serve power. But I wouldn't say I have an aversion to stiff rackets, just some of them; the arm-kilers like I mentioned before (TF 315, Extreme, PDR), and I suspect I'd have the same problem with some of the newer, stiffer frames out there...

Yes, that specially modded custom frame did cause me some lingering problems...

APD/O is pretty much at the edge of my limits for stiffness tolerance. I also string low, plus this frame is just a tad softer than most Babs....

Re TB I moved away from that earlier this year and started hybriding. I'm now looking at a bunch of options including gut/poly. That said, whilst it indeed lacked in feel a bit for me, it's my fav ever bar none poly for power/spin/control...

Basically, Ray, I'm considering something very much along the lines of my APD/O but with, ideally, better feel/control/solidness/build but isn't a major drop off in oomph/power - and crucially, isn't too jarring either.

michael valek
10-04-2012, 05:22 AM
anything Kneissl. white or black star, especially.

Ross K
10-04-2012, 05:24 AM
^^^ Thanks everyone. It's a PITA hassle demoing here in the UK, so it's great to have this feedback. Food for thought then...

1. BLX Pro Open
2. Warrior EXO3
3. Formula 100
4. Yonex's (various)
5. Pro Kennex's
6. 400T
7. BBLondon

QSN. How does the Yonnie 100S play stiffness-wise in ppl's opinions?

MikeHitsHard93
10-04-2012, 05:24 AM
I can vouch for the pro open. It's a good racket for just about anything. It's been a great racket.

Ross K
10-04-2012, 05:27 AM
I can vouch for the pro open. It's a good racket for just about anything. It's been a great racket.

You (or others) hit with the Juice 100? If so, just how harsh/stiff did you find it?

tennismonkey
10-04-2012, 05:33 AM
for my sensitive arm, wrist and elbow it's been the following sticks. all five are comfy enuff that i can play full bed of poly:

1 - exo3 tour. about 11.5 ounces strung.
2 - becker londons. about 11.1 to 11.5 ounces strung.
3 - exo3 tour team. about 10.7 ounces strung.
4 - donnay x-dual black (10.7 ounces) and x-dual silver (11.3 ounces)

smirker
10-04-2012, 05:36 AM
How about Pacific X-Fast if you can get hold of one? Tweener spec but with Fischer tech.

Ross K
10-04-2012, 05:38 AM
How about Pacific X-Fast if you can get hold of one? Tweener spec but with Fischer tech.

Well, I really liked the X Force Pro but in truth it was way too good for me (too demanding), so, yes, good call.

Power Player
10-04-2012, 05:39 AM
Ross I dont think any of those sticks besides the PKs will give you anything you don't have currently. The Warrior is going to be softer but id wait to see the new stuff prince rolls out since they are ditching the Oports.

Ross K
10-04-2012, 05:41 AM
Ross I dont think any of those sticks besides the PKs will give you anything you don't have currently. The Warrior is going to be softer but id wait to see the new stuff prince rolls out since they are ditching the Oports.

Interesting, PP. Hmm...

RollTrackTake
10-04-2012, 05:53 AM
^^^ Thanks everyone. It's a PITA hassle demoing here in the UK, so it's great to have this feedback. Food for thought then...

1. BLX Pro Open
2. Warrior EXO3
3. Formula 100
4. Yonex's (various)
5. Pro Kennex's
6. 400T
7. BBLondon

QSN. How does the Yonnie 100S play stiffness-wise in ppl's opinions?

I would have to add the Donnay Pro 1 to the list since weight wise it is in the tweener range and head is 1 sq inch less than a bb London, which I agree should be on the list. some will argue the Pro 1 is more of a players racquet or 'tweenerish' players stick though.

Power Player
10-04-2012, 06:19 AM
Ross it is a shame you can't get PKs. They really are the sticks you want to try. Best feel, amazing comfort..etc. I'd pick PK over anything on your list just because the 7G is so good, I have to figure the 315 Q5 would be as well.

McLovin
10-04-2012, 06:37 AM
How about Pacific X-Fast if you can get hold of one? Tweener spec but with Fischer tech.

Ross_K, I've got a demo of the X Fast this week for some of my high school girls, so I'll take a hit with it & let you know what I think. You already know my feelings on the X Force Pro, so I can at least let you know how it hits in comparison.

My impression just from holding it is it's a Pure Drive-clone, and I never liked the Pure Drive (Pure Control 'Swirly', however...), so this should be an interesting hit.

rlau
10-04-2012, 06:47 AM
I would have to add the Donnay Pro 1 to the list since weight wise it is in the tweener range and head is 1 sq inch less than a bb London, which I agree should be on the list. some will argue the Pro 1 is more of a players racquet or 'tweenerish' players stick though.

I agree, the Donnay Pro One 97 16x19 is a great stick with tweener-like attributes: excellent power and spin, but with more comfort and control.

I'm currently playing it with the 10 gram buttcap (that's another plus Donnay has: weighed buttcaps in +5 and +10 grams to tweak the balance) and 3 grams at 12. Excellent for baseline bashing and powerful on serves.

souledge
10-04-2012, 07:01 AM
Head Youtek IG Extreme 2.0 Pro?

keithfival
10-04-2012, 08:18 AM
I tried virtually all of the tweeners for the very same reason, to find a less stiff and better feeling APDC+. I'd say the only one that gives you similar playability features (easy fast swing, spin-based control, high margin for error, racket seems to do a lot of the work) which is significantly less stiff/harsh are the Donnays. I tried the x-dual silver and gold and both had that super-easy, spinny response, extremely soft, plus a trillion times better touch/feel. Maybe a bit less power but I think the power is there to be dialed in. That said, there was something about the very soft feel that I just didn't like but I think for many it would be a dream stick, it was really impressive. Definitely worth a spin.

Of course there are many APD types that perform similarly and are somewhat more comfortable- Pro Open, Technifibre, 4D AG500 Tour, etc. but I think they are all in the same league of stiffness and over time you still feel it even if they are more muted or solid feeling than the APD. I think these are ultimately lateral moves as far as arm health.

And there are others that are indeed more comfortable but just don't do what the APD does for you with such ease- Exo Tour 100 (not nearly as whippy), Becker (less spin, less whippy), 400T (don't get me started).

Just my findings from trying 100 tweeners to specifically replace an APDC+.

BlueB
10-04-2012, 08:39 AM
Prince O3 White.
O3 Shark MP can do too, but has a bit more power and less plush feeling.

Now something unortodox:
Find an old POG OS 4-stripe, prefferably one that's a bit on the lighter side already, static and swing. I was able to find ones that are about 327 - 326 SW and sub 350g static. Then ditch the heavy leather grip and replace with 2 lightest overgrips. Shawe the bumper a bit if you wanted further reduction in SW. You'll end up with a 330+g, 320+ SW, ~4 HL, medium stiffness... Pretty tweenerish, isn't it? Added bennefit is that you'll still have that solid POG feel on flatter, fuller strokes, while the racquet will play like a tweener when you want.

coolblue123
10-04-2012, 08:49 AM
Pacific XFast Pro 100
BB London's
BB NYC w/ Lead
Yonex EZone XI 100 (not bad, if you can have a slower swing and like the boxy headshape)
Had a Vantage BC30 as well. Kinda regret selling it now. Even though some folks complain of shoulder pain because it's too soft, I didn't noticed it when I had it.

I've played with all the above except for the XFast Pro (which I still can't find much research on...)

smirker
10-04-2012, 08:50 AM
Ross it is a shame you can't get PKs. They really are the sticks you want to try. Best feel, amazing comfort..etc. I'd pick PK over anything on your list just because the 7G is so good, I have to figure the 315 Q5 would be as well.

We can get PK's here. Demoing just isn't as easy as stumping up $10 to TW. it usually involves buying the racket and paying two lots of postage to send it back if you don't like it. one site offers demos but will only take them back if in an unplayed state! How does that work?

Good shout from the previous poster on the POG. Now to find one with a lighter spec.

dgoran
10-04-2012, 09:47 AM
Hi Ross

Dont get scared of Babolat flex numbers thanks to +- 7 tolerance you can literary "tailor" your new apd. To your liking imagine 74-7 and your back to original apd territory.
I am starting to consider Babolat qc a "feature" kind of like reverse "no tolerance" feature that fisher had lol :)

Fed Kennedy
10-04-2012, 09:48 AM
By tweener I mean something like my APD Original... 100" head-size, lightish, designed for power/spin/baseline play.

As well as a tad more control, feel, solidness and build quality, the important aspect for me is frame stiffness, RA. I know the way frames are categorized in this regard can be imprecise or up for debate whatever, but FWIW, 67 or 68 or so, that seems to be a stiff as I like a frame.

Reports on the APD 2013 having a 74 RA scares me... The Juice 100 appeals to me, but the 72 RA does not... There are certain frames I've played in the past (TF 315, MG Extreme Pro, PDR) that all seem to be about 70 RA and I just haven't been able to tolerate the harsh vibrations etc... The new Extreme 2.0 slightly intrigues me (though memories of that older Extreme are bad)... but The Yonex 100S is kind interesting me again.

Anyhow, there seems to be a fair number of tweenerish frames out there that would probably suit me - but a lot of them are like 70 or 70+ stiffness.

So... and the best tweenerish frame out there that won't shred your arm to pieces is...? :)

TIA

Yonex ezone xi. Smooth frame with a lot of power, feels good loaded with full poly.

smirker
10-04-2012, 10:33 AM
Yonex ezone xi. Smooth frame with a lot of power, feels good loaded with full poly.

Ah, thats where I am going wrong. Gut/poly too powerfull. Got some PS Energy on its way so think I will re-string although it pains me to cut out gut!

KenC
10-04-2012, 10:54 AM
The PK Ki5 315 is the usual successor to most APD and Pure Drive users who develop arm problems. And when you talk to Ki5 users, once the arm problems go away they never go back to the predecessor.

Even though it has tweenerish specs, it plays more like a players frame. Power is about in the middle between the Pure Drive and the typical players frame, like say the Head Prestige MP. Good spin technique yields great spin, but the most impressive thing about the Ki5 is the level of control that can be had, even at relatively low string tensions.

I came from the opposite end of the spectrum since I used the Pure Storm Ltd. GT, so for me I get more power, maybe a tad more spin, but the control is surprisingly the same. And even if the PK is much more stiff than the PSLGT, it just feels more arm friendly for some reason. It really is a great racquet.

SystemicAnomaly
10-04-2012, 11:24 AM
Forget about using RA numbers to tell you if a racquet is arm-friendly. The Volkl V1 Classic has an RA of 69 and yet is the most arm-friendly frame still on the market. It even felt softer than the newer Organix series with lower RA numbers from Volkl. OTOH, I've hears some reports of racquets with RA numbers way down in the 50s that are brutal on the arm.

If think that I'm blowing smoke up your shorts, demo the Volkl V1 Classic racquet from TW. While stiff racqets tend to produce more frame shock, it does not tell the whole story. In the end it is not the stiffness that will determine if the frame will be harsh on your arm -- it is how well the frame shock is dampened or how well it is prevented from reaching your arm.
.

Ross K
10-04-2012, 11:51 AM
PP - Have to say I've fancied hitting with a 7G for a while - it does seem to have got great reports.

McLovin - Yes, let me know your thoughts re the X Fast.

Roll, Rob, Keith - I'll read up on my Donnays.

Blue - 03 White... another frame I like sound of and have wondered about before.

Cool - I'll read up on my BBs... BTW, you just reminded me, despite it being mega-soft, the Vantage BC30 was ultimately very harsh for me... go figure!

goran - haha!...

FK - not sure I'm up for a box beam ATM. Hmm...

Ken - right, I'm about to check the TT feedback posts on the 315.

Ross K
10-04-2012, 11:57 AM
Forget about using RA numbers to tell you if a racquet is arm-friendly. The Volkl V1 Classic has an RA of 69 and yet is the most arm-friendly frame still on the market. It even felt softer than the newer Organix series with lower RA numbers from Volkl. OTOH, I've hears some reports of racquets with RA numbers way down in the 50s that are brutal on the arm.

If think that I'm blowing smoke up your shorts, demo the Volkl V1 Classic racquet from TW. While stiff racqets tend to produce more frame shock, it does not tell the whole story. In the end it is not the stiffness that will determine if the frame will be harsh on your arm -- it is how well the frame shock is dampened or how well it is prevented from reaching your arm.
.

Well... as I said re the Vantage BC30 above ^, that frame killed my arm and I think that was in the 50s RA. Still, even if the odd anomalies exist, how else can we get at least a general idea of racket stiffness?

Fed Kennedy
10-04-2012, 12:57 PM
PP - Have to say I've fancied hitting with a 7G for a while - it does seem to have got great reports.

McLovin - Yes, let me know your thoughts re the X Fast.

Roll, Rob, Keith - I'll read up on my Donnays.

Blue - 03 White... another frame I like sound of and have wondered about before.

Cool - I'll read up on my BBs... BTW, you just reminded me, despite it being mega-soft, the Vantage BC30 was ultimately very harsh for me... go figure!

goran - haha!...hi

FK - not sure I'm up for a box beam ATM. Hmm...

Ken - right, I'm about to check the TT feedback posts on the 315.

Ross, not sure what you mean by box beam...the xi looks almost identical to the apd except for the iso head...the throat is aero...

smirker
10-04-2012, 01:13 PM
Ross, not sure what you mean by box beam...the xi looks almost identical to the apd except for the iso head...the throat is aero...

Correct, the beam is not full aero like the APD but more of a hybrid of the PD/APD beam shape. Quite a thick beam, similar to PD. Also looking at the new PK Q5 rackets.

JackB1
10-04-2012, 01:44 PM
tougher question than I thought with some people putting certain racquets in sub-categories but...

1. BLX Pro Open
2. Warrior EXO3
3. Formula 100

perfect suggestions!

especially the Formula 100 :-)

Ross, you keep ignoring the folks suggestion the Donnay F100.
Seriously, just get one. I promise you its exactly what you are
looking for.

ArliHawk
10-04-2012, 02:38 PM
Would love to try the Formula, but wonder if Donnay will be around for a while. Would hate to love it, but not be able to get any grommets for it down the road.

Xonemains
10-04-2012, 03:42 PM
perfect suggestions!

especially the Formula 100 :-)

Ross, you keep ignoring the folks suggestion the Donnay F100.
Seriously, just get one. I promise you its exactly what you are
looking for.


Lol, jackb1, if he does demo them with he right string set up, we both know which he will decide to go with, formula beats the original APD hands down. Just doesn't feel as solid cause of the lower flex feeling but gets the job done.

Xonemains
10-04-2012, 03:44 PM
Would love to try the Formula, but wonder if Donnay will be around for a while. Would hate to love it, but not be able to get any grommets for it down the road.

You can a few grommet sets for safety but you'll probably switch sticks again b4 you need the second set of grommets:)

Ramon
10-04-2012, 03:51 PM
Would love to try the Formula, but wonder if Donnay will be around for a while. Would hate to love it, but not be able to get any grommets for it down the road.

After a couple of years, you'll be tired of your racquet anyway and ready to switch.

Johnny-Cage
10-04-2012, 03:56 PM
BLX Blade Team, Pronce EXO Tour, Dunlop Biomimetic 200 Lite, & K six one 95 Team :)

JackB1
10-04-2012, 04:14 PM
Would love to try the Formula, but wonder if Donnay will be around for a while. Would hate to love it, but not be able to get any grommets for it down the road.

I've never had a racquet long enough to need new grommets...lol.
But I can't believe that would be a consideration anyway. The Formula 100 is a best seller and you could pick up some spare grommet sets now if u try it and really like the racquet. How long do grommets usually take to wear out anyway? I have had a few racquets for around 2 years and the grommets are still fine.

KoaUka
10-04-2012, 08:00 PM
From my experience, I would say prince rebel 98 with some added weight.
Used to play babs but switched cause of the stiffness and soreness.
So far it's magic. There was about a three week adjustment period, but glad I stuck it out.

Ross K
10-04-2012, 08:10 PM
Fed - sorry yes seem to have got that Yonex mixed up with something else.

Jack and X - you're making a strong case for the Formula 100... as long as it's got that put away/serve oomph... BTW, great racketaholic line here jack:

I've never had a racquet long enough to need new grommets:)

Murray_fan1
10-04-2012, 08:32 PM
I really enjoyed the 400t and the Volkl Organix 8 315 and I can vouch for the IG Extreme Pro 2.0, specs are defied with this stick, very comfortable.

Ross K
10-04-2012, 08:57 PM
Everyone,

Okay, I've done my research now, the positive comparisons/similarities to the Pro Open, PD, 100S are too eye-catching, and I can safely say the Formula 100 is a frame I'd definitely like to test out... if I can get it in the UK, that is...


Muzza,

That's funny because all 3 of the frames you've name-checked have appealed to me and I've been interested in before. If you don't mind, could you pass a few brief comments on how these all match up IYO, like most powerful, best feel, best spin, etc. Thx

Ross K
10-04-2012, 09:59 PM
tougher question than I thought with some people putting certain racquets in sub-categories but...

1. BLX Pro Open
2. Warrior EXO3
3. Formula 100

QSNS for RollTrackTake (or others):

. Which one of the above serves with the most pop?
. Which one suits medium-swing, loopy motion etc?
. Which is the easiest to swing?

TIA

Tennisguy3000
10-04-2012, 11:35 PM
What about this stick: Volkl Organix V1 Midplus (or the MP1 thats on sale here for $99)
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/VOV1M/VOV1MReview.html

Hi I'm Ray
10-04-2012, 11:44 PM
The Formula 100 has always been the obvious choice to check out. I think you'll like it.

400 Tour will prob need some lead in the hoop. Its a little more control oriented & less powerful off the ground than the APDGT but hits a very spinny ball that just might fit your described game. Serve is not any more powerful than the APDGT but just seems easier & effortless. The feel is quite different from the Babs.

XV1 MP - I really liked this frame, has all the characteristics of the PD that I like. A touch less power but more spin on serve, and is actually arm friendly. Hits at a lower trajectory (just like the 100s) than the Babs for me.

100s - I got one demo that was strung tightly with a multi and it actually felt harsh. The TW vibration frequency chart places it above the APDGT as well. The second demo I got had loose multi strings and felt pretty soft.

BB London - great feel, tons of spin, but is lower powered on groundstrokes and serves.

Exo Tour 18x20 - hits a loopy ball for me with massive spin, good control and power when swung fast, good on volleys. Wasn't too impressive on serve speed.

Juice 100 - I mentioned this in the past. It feels and looks more like a 102sq in head size. With volkl cyclone in it and lead in the hoop, it had so much power, spin, and hit such a heavy penetrating ball it almost felt like cheating. I'd say I felt a bit less control compared to a PD. It might be too stiff for you though.

Pro Open - plays like a lighter, flexier, lower powered, and slightly better feeling version of the APDGT.

I sent you some mail about strings.

beepee1972
10-05-2012, 02:54 AM
You can also try:
Wilson BLX Blade Team,
Head Youtek IG Speed 300
Pacifica x-force

I have been testing these myself for a week now, and so far the Blade is in front...

crosscourt
10-05-2012, 03:32 AM
What about this stick: Volkl Organix V1 Midplus (or the MP1 thats on sale here for $99)
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/VOV1M/VOV1MReview.html

Another Volkl racket that some people love is the PB7. Tons of power and comfort. The head is big but if you have a two hander it may not matter so much.

Ross K
10-05-2012, 04:04 AM
Cheers gents ^^. my brain is awash with all the choices!

Ray - great post. You've got mail (though you've answered here some of what I was referring to.)

SystemicAnomaly
10-05-2012, 05:15 AM
Well... as I said re the Vantage BC30 above ^, that frame killed my arm and I think that was in the 50s RA. Still, even if the odd anomalies exist, how else can we get at least a general idea of racket stiffness?

The stiffness numbers will give you a general idea on the stiffness of a racket but will not accurately or reliably tell you if one frame is arm-friendlier than another. According to various posters, there are frames, other than the one you mentioned, that have an RA in the 50s and yet are very stressful to the arm. Likewise, there are frames that are close to 70 RA there are much kinder/gentler to the arm than frames with lower stifness numbers.

There is no guarantee that a racket with a flex of 60 is going to be better for your arm than one that has a flex of 68. The flex/stiffness ratings do not tell you how much frame shock is delivered to the arm. The flex ratings do not relect the effect of shock-damping technologies built into racquet frames.

http://tennis.about.com/od/racquetsballsstringing/a/weighracreviews_3.htm

The damping technology built into most modern Volkl (and Boris Becker) rackets is much better that most other rackets. However, it appears that the damping in the Volkl V1 Classic is even better than the newer offerings from Volkl. Some Prince frames worth considering:

O3 Hybrid Shark (MP)
EXO3 Tour 100 (1618 )
EXO3 Tour 100 (1820 )
EXO3 Rebel 98

Instead of putting a lot of stock into flex ratings, take a look at the Comfort scores in the TW racket reviews. Generally, anything higher than 80 tends to be kind/gentle on the arm. Couple this score with feedback from users. These should provide a better indicator than flex ratings. Some decent additional info about flex/stiffness ratings in this thread (also see page 2):

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=144732#post144732

Ross K
10-05-2012, 05:26 AM
The stiffness numbers will give you a general idea on the stiffness of a racket but will not accurately or reliably tell you if one frame is arm-friendlier than another. According to various posters, there are frames, other than the one you mentioned, that have an RA in the 50s and yet are very stressful to the arm. Likewise, there are frames that are close to 70 RA there are much kinder/gentler to the arm than frames with lower stifness numbers.

There is no guarantee that a racket with a flex of 60 is going to be better for your arm than one that has a flex of 68. The flex/stiffness ratings do not tell you how much frame shock is delivered to the arm. The flex ratings do not relect the effect of shock-damping technologies built into racquet frames.

http://tennis.about.com/od/racquetsballsstringing/a/weighracreviews_3.htm

The damping technology built into most modern Volkl (and Boris Becker) rackets is much better that most other rackets. However, it appears that the damping in the Volkl V1 Classic is even better than the newer offerings from Volkl. Some Prince frames worth considering:

O3 Hybrid Shark (MP)
EXO3 Tour 100 (1618 )
EXO3 Tour 100 (1820 )
EXO3 Rebel 98

Instead of putting a lot of stock into flex ratings, take a look at the Comfort scores in the TW racket reviews. Generally, anything higher than 80 tends to be kind/gentle on the arm. Couple this score with feedback from users. These should provide a better indicator than flex ratings. Some decent additional info about flex/stiffness ratings in this thread (also see page 2):

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=144732#post144732

Thanks for the links and recs... yes, it's minefield of a situation, as I'm fast discovering LOL.

SystemicAnomaly
10-05-2012, 05:42 AM
I don't know how much it will help, but the Comfort Hybrid grip on the Wilson Juice 108 might make it a bit easier on the arm than the 100 or Pro versions of the Juice. You might add some lead tape to make it a bit heavier and subdue the frame shock even more.

Here is an interesting piece on flex/stiffness ratings Tennis Express:

Flex: While flex sounds like it should be an easy to understand, it is slightly more complicated than the simple number that we or anyone else lists for flex. The unfortunate truth is that given current testing equipment designed for use on racquets, the flex is only measured at one point along the length of the racquet, that being the throat. While this can give a rough estimate for some frames, it does a disservice because many of the material compositions of frames today alter the stiffness based on the location along the racquet to serve specific purposes. A famous example of this would be tapered beam sections of the Wilson Hammer line of racquets. By making the beam width thinner in the throat area, it offered a softer flex when measured, but the much thicker hoop area of the frame was also significantly stiffer, which could not be easily measured. As expected, the stiffer a frame is, the harsher it is on the arm.

This is for two reasons: shock and vibration. It is important to realize that these are different aspects and they affect the body in slightly different ways. Shock is most often associated with hitting off center, as an extremely harsh torque felt especially in the hand, wrist, and elbow. This also occurs on shots hit in the sweet spot, but the energy absorption and repulsion of the strings do mitigate some of the impact forces, so the feeling is not as severe. Vibration on the other hand, is the residual waves of frequency that radiate down the frame and into the arm. This is typically not felt by the player on the court, and will usually only result in soreness after the fact, but can be enough to also cause problems. Most often this vibration is the result of a frame being too light that it is not able to dampen the incoming frequency of waves, but can occurs in heavier frames as well. Interestingly, shock is typically associated with stiffer frames, while vibrational damage is more likely in more flexible frames. While the more flexible frame will typically dampen the amplitude, or strength of the wave, depending on the frequency, it can still cause major problems to a players arm.

For this reason, when it comes to flex, the idea is to look for something that is relatively low in flex, but as frames become more flexible they tend to lose some of their stability. This, in addition to various technologies designed to alleviate tennis elbow, makes it difficult to judge a frame based on only one isolated flex measurement. For this reason, we suggest that you do not take the flex rating as an “end all” searching solution, but instead focus on it as a piece to a much more complicated puzzle.

JackB1
10-05-2012, 06:37 AM
QSNS for RollTrackTake (or others):

. Which one of the above serves with the most pop?
. Which one suits medium-swing, loopy motion etc?
. Which is the easiest to swing?

TIA

Ross, I have used all 3.

most pop on serve...Warrior
best for medium swing/loopy...Warrior or F100
easiest swinging...Pro Open

McNasty
10-05-2012, 08:26 AM
What about this stick: Volkl Organix V1 Midplus (or the MP1 thats on sale here for $99)
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/VOV1M/VOV1MReview.html

Totally agree on the Volkl Organix V1 Midplus. Absolutely fantastic stick. I tried the Warrior and this one is more arm friendly and packs much more power in my opinion.

Murray_fan1
10-05-2012, 03:44 PM
Muzza,

That's funny because all 3 of the frames you've name-checked have appealed to me and I've been interested in before. If you don't mind, could you pass a few brief comments on how these all match up IYO, like most powerful, best feel, best spin, etc. Thx

Ross,

Power:
Volkl>Extreme 2.0>400T
Feel:
400T>Volkl> Extreme
Spin:
Volkl>Extreme>400T

Really splitting hairs on all three categories. They are all very similar. The Extreme really excels in plow through and comfort so would actually be the winner for me overall. The 400T is a real sleeper but I did have a little stability issue with this as it has a very low swing weight. This racquet screams out for lead and once applied is a very special stick. The only problem I found was that in order to get plow up to my liking the power level becomes a little too much for me. If I was to venture a guess on which one you would like the most, I would say it would be the Volkl. Similar crisp feel to the APD (without being an arm shredder), is a spin monster, serves like Pure Drive.

hrstrat57
10-05-2012, 06:47 PM
Volkl V1 Classic. My daughter has 3 of these and I was stunned at the comfort of this frame.

I could switch to it and play with it with no adjustment tomorrow. Accurate, precise and powerful with easy access to plenty of spin. Seriously this frame blew me away.

A must demo - tho unfortunately still quite pricey.

hrstrat57
10-05-2012, 07:14 PM
BTW my daughters frames are strung at 60# with Yonex 850 spin.

They serve huge too, slice, kick and flat very precise....there is nothing the V1 Classic does not do....painlessly.

Nice also is that they aren't particularly goofy looking like some tweeners.

I can't recco the frame enough for what you describe....again I am very, very fussy about my gear and I could bag them tomorrow with no adjustment time necessary!!!

Ross K
10-05-2012, 09:55 PM
Murray - Oh mate, I've had a feeling for a while the Volkl X 315 could be of special interest to me. I've always rated Volkl build quality (a la the C10 Pro)... another frame then to contend with... BTW, You ever hit with a Juice 100? If so, where does it rank for you?

hrstat57 (and others) - Aren't these V1 Classics OS? How 'big' does it play? Not too much like a great frying pan?!

smirker
10-06-2012, 12:58 AM
Murray - Oh mate, I've had a feeling for a while the Volkl X 315 could be of special interest to me. I've always rated Volkl build quality (a la the C10 Pro)... another frame then to contend with... BTW, You ever hit with a Juice 100? If so, where does it rank for you?

hrstat57 (and others) - Aren't these V1 Classics OS? How 'big' does it play? Not too much like a great frying pan?!

V1 classic comes as MP and OS. Seriously tempted to try one but the chaepest I can find one is 145. Another one to check out is the PK Ki5 295 which seems to have all the attributes you are looking for.

skuludo
10-06-2012, 01:53 AM
Pro Supex Dynamic Energy.

Have you tried this racket yet?

arrowtowntennisclub
10-06-2012, 02:32 AM
pacific x feel tour?

Cesare
10-06-2012, 03:42 AM
Volkl V10 catapult, that's even better than the v1 classic. More plow, more spin and much more stable against hard hitters. Fantastic stick.

hrstrat57
10-06-2012, 04:22 AM
Murray - Oh mate, I've had a feeling for a while the Volkl X 315 could be of special interest to me. I've always rated Volkl build quality (a la the C10 Pro)... another frame then to contend with... BTW, You ever hit with a Juice 100? If so, where does it rank for you?

hrstat57 (and others) - Aren't these V1 Classics OS? How 'big' does it play? Not too much like a great frying pan?!

It's a 102 no frying pan....plays Midplus...be patient....we bought 2 of the frames she has off c list....I paid $100 for the pair...bought new grommets on TW = perfect.

Modified with TW leather grips to increase plow was the only modification needed. NO LEAD, had it on at 3/ 9 and removed it, not needed.

So I bought 1 new and 2 used ttl about $300 spent including the grip replacement and new strings installed.

Be patient they will pop up!

SystemicAnomaly
10-06-2012, 05:50 AM
... hrstat57 (and others) - Aren't these V1 Classics OS? How 'big' does it play? Not too much like a great frying pan?!

The Volkl V1 Classic at 102 sq" is a midplus. As far as I know, it is not available in an OS version. It is moderately powered and forgiving with a generous sweet spot (due to its Big Grommet technology). It provides an excellent blend of power, control, feel and comfort. The power/control aspect can easily be adjusted by varying the string tension.

With a strung weight of 10.5-10.8 oz and a swingweight of 310-316, it easily lends itself to customization by adding a bit of lead tape. The racquet feels very stable on most shots. There are a few times when it does not feel quite as crisp as I would like it. This could probably be rectified with a change in string tension (or a bit of lead tape).

Even tho' this model has been around since 1994 (with only cosmetic changes, as far as it know), it still sells for $159 new from many sources. You might be able to find some used frames online since it has been around so long.

McLovin
10-06-2012, 07:50 AM
Ross_K, so I hit with the X Fast Pro yesterday for a bit during warmup. I hate to 'damn this racquet with faint praise', but effectively that is what I'm going to do.

At first, it felt nice. A bit crisper than the X Force Pro, but not nearly as harsh as the 68 stiffness might suggest. Power was OK. Again, not as low-powered as the X Force Pro, but not a rocket launcher by any means. I didn't really notice the extra 1/4".

I think what I didn't like was the weight, and effectively, they way it felt when swinging. While spec say head-light, it definitely felt head-heavier than my X Force Pro. When I switched back to the X Force Pro, I could immediately feel the mass & plow-through difference.

Now, I didn't serve or volley with it (I'm hitting again tomorrow & will give it a swing again), so maybe it has nice pop & maneuverability. I'll update again after the hit.

pacific x feel tour?

I have one of those for demo as well. I really like this frame, and believe if given some weight in the handle to bring it close to 12oz strung, it would play real solid. I'd recommend that over the X Fast myself, but it may not have the power Ross_K is looking for. Then again, with another 1 1/2 oz added, it very well may.

Michelle1965
10-06-2012, 08:15 AM
tougher question than I thought with some people putting certain racquets in sub-categories but...

1. BLX Pro Open
2. Warrior EXO3
3. Formula 100
I'll second the Wilson BLX Pro Open as top pick
2nd Babolat Pure Drive Lite

Haven't tried the XO3 Warrior. I would say the Warrior TT 97 or 107 would be great picks in that stiffness if you can find them.

Murray_fan1
10-06-2012, 10:32 AM
Murray - Oh mate, I've had a feeling for a while the Volkl X 315 could be of special interest to me. I've always rated Volkl build quality (a la the C10 Pro)... another frame then to contend with... BTW, You ever hit with a Juice 100? If so, where does it rank?

I agree Volkl IMO makes a very high quality product. Never tried the Juice 100 but have to to admit it has been on my tweener radar for awhile. I really think you should demo the X8 300 and the X8 315. The 300 would be the closest comparison in static weight and swingweight to your APDO.

Ross K
10-06-2012, 11:06 PM
McLovin - okay, so X Fast is probably not your cup of tea (I know how much you love the altogether superb X Force Pro), and from a lot of research I've done, don't think I'm going to prioritize checking it out either. Seems a few frames are pretty similar indeed to this too.


All - so I've had a ton of great frame recs on this thread. So hard to work out what I do want to look into due to certain variables plus the difficult demoing situation here in England, but right now I'm most preoccupied with (though I'm kind of adding and taking away from it all the time):

Formula 100
100S and/or EZone Xi 100
Warrior
Juice 100


It occurs to me now also though that FWIW maybe I should also mention a few other things that appeal to me as well as not wanting my arm decimated (LOL!)... and this is in chronological order of importance too.

1 - Consistent easy deep g/stroke oomph (prob my no. 1 reason for sticking with the APD so long)

2 - Biiiiig serve pop (not going to lie, I love and need a bit of help here - anything that can assist roar in a flat bomber has always appealed to me)

3 - Decent control

4 - Generally something that suits medium swing, strong SW-Western grips, lot of spin b-line

5 - Decent feel and touch

6 - Good build quality

7 - Decent solidness

Maybe this frame doesn't exist but anyway...:)

JackB1
10-07-2012, 06:52 AM
Ross, I would nix the Juice from your list. It is a very stiff feeling frame.

wrainsberger
10-07-2012, 07:15 AM
Ross, I'm in a similar situation and had the opportunity to hit with a few sticks lately. My short list came down to the following:
Roddick Pure Drive, Head Instinct MP, Dunlop 400 Tour, Yonex 100s and XI 100 and the Wilson Juice (Pro and Non)

After hitting with all of these for a few minutes, some were nixed right away. Both of the Juice frames (way too stiff and vibrations were bad), XI 100 (way too much power, lacked control).

Something felt off with the Dunlop for some reason, wish I could elaborate. I could probably learn to love it and seemed to be a nice stick. Same goes for the Head Instinct, my problem with it was I felt it could get pushed around by a heavy ball.

Even though I know that the RPD is a stiff stick, it didn't play that way to me on that day. I may just have not had enough time with it to accurately judge it. (Same could be said about all of these frames though.) What worked for me as soon as I began hitting with it though was the Vcore 100s. It seemed that I could do no wrong with it. I hit some nice serves, hit several nice slices and drop shots and hit penetrating shots as well. Spin was great coming off the string bed as well. I also did not feel that the frame would get pushed around by the heavy ball. It was strung with Yonex 850 multi and seemed a little mushy, but it worked for me. Felt easy on the arm, build quality is amazing.

Just my thoughts on the stick; give it a try.

ChicagoJack
10-07-2012, 07:15 AM
deleted post.

Ross K
10-07-2012, 08:04 AM
Ross, I'm in a similar situation and had the opportunity to hit with a few sticks lately. My short list came down to the following:
Roddick Pure Drive, Head Instinct MP, Dunlop 400 Tour, Yonex 100s and XI 100 and the Wilson Juice (Pro and Non)

After hitting with all of these for a few minutes, some were nixed right away. Both of the Juice frames (way too stiff and vibrations were bad), XI 100 (way too much power, lacked control).

Something felt off with the Dunlop for some reason, wish I could elaborate. I could probably learn to love it and seemed to be a nice stick. Same goes for the Head Instinct, my problem with it was I felt it could get pushed around by a heavy ball.

Even though I know that the RPD is a stiff stick, it didn't play that way to me on that day. I may just have not had enough time with it to accurately judge it. (Same could be said about all of these frames though.) What worked for me as soon as I began hitting with it though was the Vcore 100s. It seemed that I could do no wrong with it. I hit some nice serves, hit several nice slices and drop shots and hit penetrating shots as well. Spin was great coming off the string bed as well. I also did not feel that the frame would get pushed around by the heavy ball. It was strung with Yonex 850 multi and seemed a little mushy, but it worked for me. Felt easy on the arm, build quality is amazing.

Just my thoughts on the stick; give it a try.

Really interesting, especially re the 100S. Along with the Formula 100 and perhaps the Warrior (though those TW reviews and other reports slightly make me wonder, ie is the feel that's lacking, and would the 03 White be more up my street as I understand it's maybe a tad more powerful?) Anyhow, that VC 100S is absolutely in my top 3 of what I'd like to look at. It's had such across the board praise and for so long, it has to be a heck of a frame.

ChicagoJack
10-07-2012, 09:02 AM
Aren't these V1 Classics OS? How 'big' does it play? Not too much like a great frying pan?!

The Volkl V1 Classic at 102 sq" is a midplus. As far as I know, it is not available in an OS version.

V1 classic comes as MP and OS.

Volkl seems to always have verbiage overlap with the racquet lines. While there isn't a V1 Classic OS, there is an Organix V1 Oversize, and an Organix V1 MP, both of which are currently for sale right here at TW. The V1 Classic, is one of the biggest sellers in the Volkl line, so they piggyback on that that popularity by creating an "updated" V1, with every new technology roll out. So looking back thru the years I count at least 15 different frames with the "V1" in the name. There were V1 MP and OS Versions found in the DNX, Powerbridge, Quantum, Hotspot, and Catapault Technology lines just to name a few.

Having said that, there are actually three slight dif versions of the V1 Classic. MP (102)

Volkl V1 Classic: 27", 313g, 33.5bal, 320sw, 102, 68ra
Volkl V1 Classic, Silver Edition : 27" 316g, 34bal, 102, 316sw, 67ra
Volkl V1 Classic, 10 Year Anniversary Edition: 27" 298g, 34.5bal, 310sw, 102, 72ra.

-Jack

SystemicAnomaly
10-07-2012, 01:25 PM
^ Interesting history on the V1 Classic. I had assumed that the changes thru the years was primarily cosmetic. Have the specs for the standard model changed significantly (or at all).

I'll second the Wilson BLX Pro Open as top pick
2nd Babolat Pure Drive Lite ...


Are you certain that the Babolat PD Lite is not an arm-shredder? At least one TW reviewer had shoulder and arm issues with it.

Ross, I would nix the Juice from your list. It is a very stiff feeling frame.

The 108 version of the Juice might be better than the other two, especially if you add a bit of weight to it.

arrowtowntennisclub
10-07-2012, 03:35 PM
ross k, regarding the prince racquets such as the O3 white and warrior,

when i first got back into the game, i played with a EXO3 white for 6 months and at the time i thought it was great!! but after playing with old and new head mps (pt630, bumblebee radical and original speeds) plus my foray into yonex racquets in terms of ball feel the prince racquets just didnt match up.

yes the prince frames were very easy to play with, sweetspot was unparalleled and spin action was crazy with easy power, yet accurate ball feel and consistent response are attributes of a racquet i feel are must haves and the frames im used to playing with now beat the prince in these attributes. having said that i have only played with the EXO3 white, EXO3 black and an O3 original red.

for my money if i was looking to switch to a "tweenerish frame that won't shred your arm to pieces" my picks in no particular order would be:
vcore 100s
donnay x-p dual black 102
speed 300


imo there are just so many choices of frames in this category that you really do have to just be super selective, know what you like and perhaps choose racquets that are a little bit special.

wildcard entry: EXO3 tour team

ArliHawk
10-07-2012, 03:48 PM
I find it interesting that the Warrior comes up so much in this thread, because the review wasn't that great.

T.P3D0R
10-07-2012, 03:59 PM
I find it interesting that the Warrior comes up so much in this thread, because the review wasn't that great.

I'm surprised the Warrior is brought up frequently on these boards.

I played with it for a set, felt terrible. I guess if you're into O-ports and EXO3 ports, then go for it, but having played with Head for a while, there is just no feel.

JackB1
10-07-2012, 04:08 PM
I find it interesting that the Warrior comes up so much in this thread, because the review wasn't that great.

What people need to realize is that the review is just 4 different people!
There have been many racquets that got sub average reviews on TW that I loved and vice versa. The only opinion that really matters is your own.

SystemicAnomaly
10-07-2012, 06:22 PM
^ Anything to add to what I said about the Juice 108 in posts #58 and #80?

Ross K
10-07-2012, 09:46 PM
ross k, regarding the prince racquets such as the O3 white and warrior,

when i first got back into the game, i played with a EXO3 white for 6 months and at the time i thought it was great!! but after playing with old and new head mps (pt630, bumblebee radical and original speeds) plus my foray into yonex racquets in terms of ball feel the prince racquets just didnt match up.

yes the prince frames were very easy to play with, sweetspot was unparalleled and spin action was crazy with easy power, yet accurate ball feel and consistent response are attributes of a racquet i feel are must haves and the frames im used to playing with now beat the prince in these attributes. having said that i have only played with the EXO3 white, EXO3 black and an O3 original red.

for my money if i was looking to switch to a "tweenerish frame that won't shred your arm to pieces" my picks in no particular order would be:
vcore 100s
donnay x-p dual black 102
speed 300


imo there are just so many choices of frames in this category that you really do have to just be super selective, know what you like and perhaps choose racquets that are a little bit special.

wildcard entry: EXO3 tour team

Quoted for truth... super selective, absolutely.

Re Princes, previously I've appreciated that easy swinging, big power and spin and grip shape. Couldn't quite get with the EXo Tour 100 though (turned me into Road Runner continually zooming around getting the ball back but not putting it away).

Like you though, in the past I've had more of a thing for quality build/sweet swinging ways/solidness etc of Head MPs (Pres Pro, PT630, i Prestige, etc). It's taken years to figure out but TBH these are a bit too demanding for me and my game suits tweenerish frames a little better. I've never played any of the Speeds.

RollTrackTake
10-08-2012, 12:37 PM
QSNS for RollTrackTake (or others):

. Which one of the above serves with the most pop?
. Which one suits medium-swing, loopy motion etc?
. Which is the easiest to swing?

TIA

In my hands the Pro Open had the most pop on serve. Not by a wide margin though. The Warrior & F100 can bring the heat as well.
For the swing style & ease of swing I hesitate to say the Formula 100 may be the pick of the 3 because its swing weight is the heaviest yet it's still easy to swing. If you said you have a fast, low to hi swing I would point toward the pro open but these are more or less 3 peas in a pod. You just have to see which feels best when you hit. The Pro Open has that 'Wilson' feel I like. The Warrior is very muted IMO. The Donnay sits in between.

JackB1
10-08-2012, 01:18 PM
In my hands the Pro Open had the most pop on serve. Not by a wide margin though. The Warrior & F100 can bring the heat as well.
For the swing style & ease of swing I hesitate to say the Formula 100 may be the pick of the 3 because its swing weight is the heaviest yet it's still easy to swing. If you said you have a fast, low to hi swing I would point toward the pro open but these are more or less 3 peas in a pod. You just have to see which feels best when you hit. The Pro Open has that 'Wilson' feel I like. The Warrior is very muted IMO. The Donnay sits in between.

Agree. Those 3 are so similar and they will all work. Just depends on which you personally like best.

hrstrat57
10-08-2012, 03:41 PM
Took one of my daughter's frames for another spin today during a couple of sets of recreational tennis.

Had 2 i Prestige MP in the bag today with the V1 Classic as a third and was able to mix it in a bit without a lot of adjustment, it was a similar hit, much bigger sweetspot than the 18x20 MP's tho certainly a bit lighter.

If you have previously dialed in to Head 630 18x20 MP's I think the Classic is a must on your try list. It will feel like an old friend only easier to hit. If I had arm problems I would switch today....but I don't for now so I will press on with the Head MP's.

Good luck and let us know what you decide!

my76
10-08-2012, 07:28 PM
Here is more praise for the V1 classic, there is absolutely no vibration felt with this racket, you get all the benefits of a stiff racket with the highest level of comfort. This is because of the handle technology. It does everything well and when I first hit with it I couldn't believe how solid it felt, it requires no customization because it is more solid feeling than any 12+ ounce racket I've used, including : Pro staff ROK, Prestige Mid, K6.1 90, PB 10 mid, and PSL to mention a few of the rackets I've owned.
Every once in a while I pick up one of my flexible rackets and hit a few balls with it but quickly put it down because the recoil and vibration transferred to my arm causes pain. Then, after I hit a few balls with the V1, I grin with slight disbelief at how a racket can feel so amazing. Put this one on your demo list for sure.

klementine79
10-09-2012, 08:43 AM
Hello there Ross....

Some good suggestions in this thread for the comfy tweener...

I'll throw mine out there... the Dunlop Bio500t. The 100sq.in. head runs long from 12o'clock to 6, more oval. Comfortable frame, nice pop on serve and the back side (which I know is a personal must).

As for the warrior100, it's a nice frame for sure. Comfy, wide open and easy access to spin BUT as with all Prince frames, it just feels as if there is no substance to it, despite the weight or mods. The ball feel attributes to this big time.

The Vcore100s is a nice frame for sure. So solid feeling and great, correction, spectacular from the back-hand side (as with all Yonex frames 98sq.in. and above, the real estate is generous). But it is stiff, first time in my life I've experienced elbow pain was with this frame. If you tend to never hit the top portion of the string-bed on serve and forehand, it could be a winner. So responsive and crisp, maybe too much so, balls were flying off the face a little too hot for me, but a nice racquet.

I actually want to take the Form100 out for a test drive after reading this thread, good reviews and comments.

Fed Kennedy
10-09-2012, 09:48 AM
Based on the criteria in your first post Ross, I would go with the ezone xi. If you are after build quality, pop spin and most of all good feel, I would take this one. I know you like full beds of shaped poly in the low 50s, thats perfect for this frame, power level almost identical to the apd, insane stability, more pop on serve etc...you dont have to customize.

I saw vandeweghe play serena live with this frame, coco was hitting bigger...

The formula 100 is nothing special, dodgy qc, if you have an old pd with silicone in the handle thats exactly what it is.

Ross K
10-09-2012, 10:32 AM
Based on the criteria in your first post Ross, I would go with the ezone xi. If you are after build quality, pop spin and most of all good feel, I would take this one. I know you like full beds of shaped poly in the low 50s, thats perfect for this frame, power level almost identical to the apd, insane stability, more pop on serve etc...you dont have to customize.

I saw vandeweghe play serena live with this frame, coco was hitting bigger...

The formula 100 is nothing special, dodgy qc, if you have an old pd with silicone in the handle thats exactly what it is.

In the immortal words of Dora The Explorer... "Oh maaaaan!":)

Don't say this to me FK, I'm literally about 20 minutes away from pulling the trigger on buying a Formula 100!:shock:

Fed Kennedy
10-09-2012, 11:00 AM
Haha. Its just my opinion. All the donnays feel dead and gooey to me. Chris from tw loved it and I trust his opinion too.

SystemicAnomaly
10-09-2012, 11:47 AM
Here is more praise for the V1 classic, there is absolutely no vibration felt with this racket, you get all the benefits of a stiff racket with the highest level of comfort. This is because of the handle technology. It does everything well and when I first hit with it I couldn't believe how solid it felt, it requires no customization because it is more solid feeling than any 12+ ounce racket I've used, including : Pro staff ROK, Prestige Mid, K6.1 90, PB 10 mid, and PSL to mention a few of the rackets I've owned.
Every once in a while I pick up one of my flexible rackets and hit a few balls with it but quickly put it down because the recoil and vibration transferred to my arm causes pain. Then, after I hit a few balls with the V1, I grin with slight disbelief at how a racket can feel so amazing. Put this one on your demo list for sure.

It would appear that the OP is ignoring the high praise of the V1 Classic even tho' several of us have mentioned it. Could it be that he can't get past the high RA spec and can't believe that it might be one of the most arm-friendliest racquets on the planet?

Ross K
10-09-2012, 12:05 PM
Fed - It was obviously not meant to be then with the F100. Thought I had it sewn up there on fboy but I was pipped at the post by a fellow UKRH and fellow TTer.

Systemic and my - No, I'm not ignoring the kudos for the V1. I've read up on it. Liked what I've read. And it's competing for prominence with the not small number of superb choices many here have pointed me in the direction of.

BTW, I wish I could demo more easily, but the UK is pretty useless re demoing, and therefore it's hard for me to check these frames in the manner that is the everyday practice in places like the States.

JackB1
10-09-2012, 12:58 PM
In the immortal words of Dora The Explorer... "Oh maaaaan!":)

Don't say this to me FK, I'm literally about 20 minutes away from pulling the trigger on buying a Formula 100!:shock:

He's wrong as can be

Murray_fan1
10-09-2012, 08:17 PM
By tweener I mean something like my APD Original... 100" head-size, lightish, designed for power/spin/baseline play.

As well as a tad more control, feel, solidness and build quality, the important aspect for me is frame stiffness, RA. I know the way frames are categorized in this regard can be imprecise or up for debate whatever, but FWIW, 67 or 68 or so, that seems to be a stiff as I like a frame.

Reports on the APD 2013 having a 74 RA scares me... The Juice 100 appeals to me, but the 72 RA does not... There are certain frames I've played in the past (TF 315, MG Extreme Pro, PDR) that all seem to be about 70 RA and I just haven't been able to tolerate the harsh vibrations etc... The new Extreme 2.0 slightly intrigues me (though memories of that older Extreme are bad)... but The Yonex 100S is kind interesting me again.

Anyhow, there seems to be a fair number of tweenerish frames out there that would probably suit me - but a lot of them are like 70 or 70+ stiffness.

So... and the best tweenerish frame out there that won't shred your arm to pieces is...? :)

TIA

Ross,

What is your static weight and swing weight preference on a tweener stick?

Ross K
10-09-2012, 08:35 PM
^^^ Murray, I'm used to 320g + and about 330 SW, but I could come down on these specs. I am prone to tinkering. I definitely don't want to go too hefty, though I have a horrible habbit of liking/exploring more players type frames with a tad more solidness (such as the one in your signature.) I'm also a sucker for a frame that swings sweetly (C10 Pro, being a good example).

Murray_fan1
10-09-2012, 08:57 PM
^^^ Murray, I'm used to 320g + and about 330 SW, but I could come down on these specs. I am prone to tinkering. I definitely don't want to go too hefty, though I have a horrible habbit of liking/exploring more players type frames with a tad more solidness (such as the one in your signature.) I'm also a sucker for a frame that swings sweetly (C10 Pro, being a good example).

Not to get too off topic but I do have two not so tweenerish suggestions. As Meaghan had suggested in the Holics thread the Volkl X10 has the sweet swinging feel of the C10 but with the (end the point now)power of a tweener type frame. Also the IG Prestige Pro the leather removed and a Babolat skin feel installed brings down the static weight to a more user friendly 11.9-12 ounce(with overgrip) and gets the balance closer to about 5 points hl. Still plenty solid and powerful as the balance helps make up for the loss of static weight.

Ross K
10-09-2012, 10:06 PM
klem - interesting re the 500T. Easy to get hold of to here in UK. That said, I'm not too clued up on Dunlops and they've previously never floated by boat when I have checked them.. I know what you mean re Princes, don't why exactly but I've never quite got into the feel and response. That said, I like how they hit easy, big and spinny and like the grip shape a lot... hoping to be formulating my own thoughts on 100s shortly.


Murray - okay X10... I'll read up on it some more!... I feel like I've been there/done it re Pres Pro frames - unfortunately they are just beyond my skills to use properly. Trust me, I've tried.:)