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View Full Version : Better backhand currently: Federer or Nadal?


dangalak
10-05-2012, 08:07 PM
The beauty of this thread is that people will not spam misleading stats from the ATP website. :lol:

MichaelNadal
10-05-2012, 08:20 PM
Federer has always had a better backhand, though Nadal's backhand is a very underrated shot. Next question?

dangalak
10-05-2012, 08:23 PM
Federer has always had a better backhand, though Nadal's backhand is a very underrated shot. Next question?

In 2008-2009 Nadal's was vastly better and arguably was until 2011. :)

RF20Lennon
10-05-2012, 08:24 PM
Federer has more variety and a better backhand in general. But its always exploited by Rafas forehand. Nadal has a stable backhand because of the two hands and no one can come close to generating his topspin so we can never know how he would respond

dangalak
10-05-2012, 08:25 PM
Federer has more variety and a better backhand in general. But its always exploited by Rafas forehand. Nadal has a stable backhand because of the two hands and no one can come close to generating his topspin so we can never know how he would respond

Um, Djokovic picked on his backhand all day. :lol:

RF20Lennon
10-05-2012, 08:26 PM
Um, Djokovic picked on his backhand all day. :lol:

True but he picked on feds as well what im saying is we would never know how he would behave to his own topspin

tennisbuck
10-05-2012, 08:34 PM
fed can certainly attack more off of his, but nadals is more consistent. defidently worth discussing

Cup8489
10-05-2012, 08:38 PM
Fed.

@ OP... they were only misleading to you because you didn't agree with them.

Kinda like how you claimed that your opinion was factual.

dangalak
10-05-2012, 08:38 PM
True but he picked on feds as well what im saying is we would never know how he would behave to his own topspin

Erm, what? Djokovic picking on Federer's BH? :lol:

If anything, it's the reverse. Pay attention to how Federer's BH always looks GOATlike when he plays Djokovic and how Djokovic's BH looks much worse than it usually is because of Federer's variety. The only match where Federer's BH struggles with Djokovic's was the FO this year and that was with Djokovic's BH hitting great angles and Federer not slicing enough.

Murray's BH causes Federer a lot more problems.

dangalak
10-05-2012, 08:41 PM
Fed.

@ OP... they were only misleading to you because you didn't agree with them.

Kinda like how you claimed that your opinion was factual.

Oh shut your mouth for God's sake. :?

Only a moron would look at statistics and say that, for instance, Nadal had a better serve than Querrey in 2010. They only show who won the most points/games, they don't show what led to that. Nadal's or Federer's percentages are mostly because of their all around game, not because of their serves/returns.

NadalAgassi
10-05-2012, 08:41 PM
It is funny how Federer fans think Federer has the better forehand, better backhand, as good or better movement, yet he loses most of the baseline rallies in 85% of their matches (basically every match that wasnt indoors).

RF20Lennon
10-05-2012, 08:42 PM
Erm, what? Djokovic picking on Federer's BH? :lol:

If anything, it's the reverse. Pay attention to how Federer's BH always looks GOATlike when he plays Djokovic and how Djokovic's BH looks much worse than it usually is because of Federer's variety. The only match where Federer's BH struggles with Djokovic's was the FO this year and that was with Djokovic's BH hitting great angles and Federer not slicing enough.

Murray's BH causes Federer a lot more problems.

I agree but also look at their rome encounter this year

Hood_Man
10-05-2012, 08:43 PM
Excuse me, Dangalak? Inside voices please.

Thanks :)

dangalak
10-05-2012, 08:44 PM
It is funny how Federer fans think Federer has the better forehand, better backhand, as good or better movement, yet he loses most of the baseline rallies in 85% of their matches (basically every match that wasnt indoors).

Matchups? His BH isn't very good against Nadal. Federer's serve might be vastly superior to Nadal, but against Federer, Nadal's serve looks much better than it is since Federer struggles against it etc.

Also, nobody claimed that Federer currently moves anywhere near well as Nadal. :lol:

Nadal's BH has declined. back in the day it was a much better shot.

You also ignore things that cannot be put into usual categories of "FH, BH, movement". Passing shots, defense, consistency.

I mean it's like you're pretending to be stupid just to have a go at me. :?

dangalak
10-05-2012, 08:45 PM
I agree but also look at their rome encounter this year

There, Federer also sliced very rarely.

Djokovic typically hurts Federer with his FH, not his BH.

kaku
10-05-2012, 08:57 PM
Old Man Fed, just watch some of his Wimbledon matches

Prisoner of Birth
10-05-2012, 10:01 PM
Erm, what? Djokovic picking on Federer's BH? :lol:

If anything, it's the reverse. Pay attention to how Federer's BH always looks GOATlike when he plays Djokovic and how Djokovic's BH looks much worse than it usually is because of Federer's variety. The only match where Federer's BH struggles with Djokovic's was the FO this year and that was with Djokovic's BH hitting great angles and Federer not slicing enough.

Murray's BH causes Federer a lot more problems.

Yeah, Djokovic has trouble dealing with Federer's backhand backspin.

Zarfot Z
10-06-2012, 02:24 AM
What?

Nadal, by far. Much more consistent, less prone to shanking and a more solid shot overall.

Federer has the worst backhand in the top 4. It's obviously still a hellavashot, but there is no way it is better than Nadal's.

dangalak
10-06-2012, 02:30 AM
What?

Nadal, by far. Much more consistent, less prone to shanking and a more solid shot overall.

Federer has the worst backhand in the top 4. It's obviously still a hellavashot, but there is no way it is better than Nadal's.

Who cares if it's a "solid shot" if he can't hit it down the line to save his life. :lol:

And that's just if you compare their drive backhands. Federer's slice is lightyears ahead of Nadal's.

Not to mention, this isn't 2008. Federer is no longer leaking errors left and right from his BH.

faranell
10-06-2012, 03:12 AM
Ok. im kinda new here so i dunno but how come 90% of the threads are polls like "who has better fh?" "who has better bh" "better shoes" "nicest hair"..
whats the point?

Sim
10-06-2012, 03:15 AM
Federer and Nadal are great because of their forehand.
Murray and Djokovic are great as well because they're good on both wings.

It's hard to discuss because if you say Federer's backhand is better than Nadal's, then Nadal's forehand is better than Fed's to cover for lack of backhand? vice versa.. etc.....

And I would say that when Nadal was playing, his forehand was better than Fed's, but he's out right now so hard to say "currently".

dangalak
10-06-2012, 03:33 AM
Federer and Nadal are great because of their forehand.
Murray and Djokovic are great as well because they're good on both wings.

It's hard to discuss because if you say Federer's backhand is better than Nadal's, then Nadal's forehand is better than Fed's to cover for lack of backhand? vice versa.. etc.....

And I would say that when Nadal was playing, his forehand was better than Fed's, but he's out right now so hard to say "currently".

On a clay court, yeah it is.

TTMR
10-06-2012, 05:34 AM
Ok. im kinda new here so i dunno but how come 90% of the threads are polls like "who has better fh?" "who has better bh" "better shoes" "nicest hair"..
whats the point?

We at TW struggle for originality in terms of our threads, especially in between major tournaments. Higher quality trolls often tank this part of the season; however, they return fresh and eager usually a few days before the Australian Open begins.

The only way Federer has a better backhand than Nadal is if you do not isolate the slice as a separate shot. In terms of topspin backhand, it is not close. Nadal's is much better. In terms of slice, Federer's is much better, but in today's game the topspin drive is more important, and thus we can say Nadal has the better backhand. If slice is that important, I guess you could say Federer has a better backhand than Djokovic, too, as Djokovic's slice is much worse than Nadal's.

The results of the poll are so typically ridiculous. Let me ask Federer fans: According to you, Federer has the greatest forehand of all time--better than Nadal, better backhand, much better serve, much better return, much better net game and better movement. With all of these advantages, how does Federer lose so many matches to Nadal? Mental strength? Come on. Federer should dominate the rivalry, using his great serve and forehand to pound away cross court to Nadal's substandard backhand all the time. Yet it is the reverse that happens.

Nathaniel_Near
10-06-2012, 05:45 AM
It is funny how Federer fans think Federer has the better forehand, better backhand, as good or better movement, yet he loses most of the baseline rallies in 85% of their matches (basically every match that wasnt indoors).

While I agree that it seems odd to say that Federer is better in all 3 categories (which I don't think he is), your reasoning is deeply flawed. Field VS match-up; relate your implications to parameters that do not just involve a singular opposition.

dangalak
10-06-2012, 05:50 AM
We at TW struggle for originality in terms of our threads, especially in between major tournaments. Higher quality trolls often tank this part of the season; however, they return fresh and eager usually a few days before the Australian Open begins.

The only way Federer has a better backhand than Nadal is if you do not isolate the slice as a separate shot. In terms of topspin backhand, it is not close. Nadal's is much better. In terms of slice, Federer's is much better, but in today's game the topspin drive is more important, and thus we can say Nadal has the better backhand. If slice is that important, I guess you could say Federer has a better backhand than Djokovic, too, as Djokovic's slice is much worse than Nadal's.

The results of the poll are so typically ridiculous. Let me ask Federer fans: According to you, Federer has the greatest forehand of all time--better than Nadal, better backhand, much better serve, much better return, much better net game and better movement. With all of these advantages, how does Federer lose so many matches to Nadal? Mental strength? Come on. Federer should dominate the rivalry, using his great serve and forehand to pound away cross court to Nadal's substandard backhand all the time. Yet it is the reverse that happens.

How is Nadal's topspin BH so good? He literally cannot hit it down the line with any authority unless he is approched and has to pass or he hits a sunday punch like BH. His backhand is as innocuous as you consider Federer's to be. It's almost like Murray's FH. Unlike, say, in 2008-2009, his BH has lost almost all of it's sting. These days, you can expect to pound forehands to his backhand and not fear to get a CC BH ripped past you and it had much better length.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSmDCHLJM70

As opposed to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkI4FpZDQcc

Federer having a better slice than Djokovic doesn't make his BH better for the reason that Djokovic's twohander is one of the top 5 in history, if not top 3. I cannot say the same for Nadal.

The last paragraph of yours is a joke. Nobody believes that Federer moves better than Nadal. His return isn't better than Nadal's either.

The reason why Nadal can punish Federer's backhand is because he can punish Federer's ONEHANDED backhand with his HIGH BOUNCING FH. The reverse doesn't happen because Nadal owns a twohander and Federer's FH doesn't bounce as high. Then there's the fact that Federer's favourite BH shot, the slice, is ineffective against Nadal, since he cannot get it on his BH consistently and a guy like Nadal can get that slice up and down easily.

Not to mention how Nadal's normally inferior serve is hard to return for Federer specifically.

Finally, the majority of their matches have been played on clay, where Nadal is the better mover, has the better forehand, the better backhand and where his inferiority in serve and net game matters little.

You're welcome.

TTMR
10-06-2012, 06:03 AM
How is Nadal's topspin BH so good? He literally cannot hit it down the line unless he is approched and has to pass or he hits a sunday punch like BH. His backhand is as innocuous as you consider Federer's to be. Unlike, say, in 2008-2009, his BH has lost almost all of it's sting. These days, you can expect to pound forehands to his backhand and not fear to get a CC BH ripped past you.

Federer having a better slice than Djokovic doesn't make his BH better for the reason that Djokovic's twohander is one of the top 5 in history, if not top 3. I cannot say the same for Nadal.

I said, if slice is equally important as topspin, then Federer's backhand is better than Djokovic's. The difference between Djokovic's topspin backhand and Federer's, while vast, is not as big as the difference between Federer's slice and Djokovic's.

The last paragraph of yours is a joke. Nobody believes that Federer moves better than Nadal. His return isn't better than Nadal's either.

Nobody believes that? There are probably a dozen threads on those two issues in the last month alone. It is almost a consensus among TW's Federer fans that Federer is a better mover (or was during his prime) than Nadal and has a better return. I think the first point of those is laughable and the second point at least debatable.

The reason why Nadal can punish Federer's backhand is because he can punish Federer's ONEHANDED backhand with his HIGH BOUNCING FH. The reverse doesn't happen because Nadal owns a twohander and Federer's FH doesn't bounce as high.

Complete contradiction there. If Federer's forehand is the greatest of all time and Nadal's backhand, two-handed or not, is garbage, then Federer can pound it all day long and crush the inevitable short balls. The fact that Federer can't hit high bouncing topspin shots to his backhand completely undermines your viewpoint, especially in the same paragraph you are saying Nadal's two-hander can essentially handle any shot, including the best groundstroke in game history in Federer's forehand.

Then there's the fact that Federer's favourite BH shot, the slice, is ineffective against Nadal, since he cannot get it on his BH consistently and a guy like Nadal can get that slice up and down easily.

So even his slice doesn't work against Nadal either? Damn, what a great backhand. Yet Nadal's terrible backhand can take all of that punishment from Federer.


Finally, the majority of their matches have been played on clay, where Nadal is the better mover, has the better forehand, the better backhand and where his inferiority in serve and net game matters little.


Ah clay, the great neutralizer. But then, Nadal has a winning record against Federer on hard court as well.

dangalak
10-06-2012, 06:18 AM
I said, if slice is equally important as topspin, then Federer's backhand is better than Djokovic's. The difference between Djokovic's topspin backhand and Federer's, while vast, is not as big as the difference between Federer's slice and Djokovic's.

The slice isn't equally important as topspin.

Nobody believes that? There are probably a dozen threads on those two issues in the last month alone. It is almost a consensus among TW's Federer fans that Federer is a better mover (or was during his prime) than Nadal and has a better return. I think the first point of those is laughable and the second point at least debatable.

Federer is in no way as good as a mover as any of the top 4 currently. Federer being a better mover than Nadal in his prime is not utterly ridiculous and a possibility if you out more value in footwork. (remember Madrid? :lol:)
However, the reality is that they are fairly close and that Nadal is possibly the greatest mover ever.

Complete contradiction there. If Federer's forehand is the greatest of all time and Nadal's backhand, two-handed or not, is garbage, then Federer can pound it all day long and crush the inevitable short balls. The fact that Federer can't hit high bouncing topspin shots to his backhand completely undermines your viewpoint, especially in the same paragraph you are saying Nadal's two-hander can essentially handle any shot, including the best groundstroke in game history in Federer's forehand.

I don't think so. Federer's backhand is brilliant against somebody like Djokovic and is a great shot against the vast majority of players.

I know that the likes of you frown at the word "match-up" but nothing else explains Nadal's ability to beat Federer more often than not over a time frame where he would typically get spanked by people in slams, that have a combined H2H record against Federer of 11-75 or something. :lol:

One handed backhands typically can't deal with that shot. There are not many players capable of doing what Nadal does, so I'm going to strike that out as an exception.

Nadal's serve is also more effective against Federer than Roddick's. Does that mean his serve is better?

So even his slice doesn't work against Nadal either? Damn, what a great backhand. Yet Nadal's terrible backhand can take all of that punishment from Federer.

Slices generally don't work well on forehands. That is an issue of Nadal's lefty status and his movement.

Ah clay, the great neutralizer. But then, Nadal has a winning record against Federer on hard court as well.

No he doesn't. Pretty sure Federer leads 6-5.

tennis_pro
10-06-2012, 06:21 AM
Since I haven't seen Nadal play since June, I say Federer.

dangalak
10-06-2012, 06:27 AM
Another addition has to be that this thread asks about theri CURRENT backhands. Throughout the recent years, Federer's backhand was far less consistent than it is right now, while Nadal's BH was a good deal more potent, than it is right now. Nadal beating Federer from the Monte Carlo final in 2008 to the Australian Open final 2009 has no bearing on how superior or inferior Nadal's backhand is to Federer's.

EDIT:

If Federer's forehand is the greatest of all time and Nadal's backhand, two-handed or not, is garbage, then Federer can pound it all day long and crush the inevitable short balls.

Federer CAN'T punish the inevitable short balls, because Federer would have to follow them to the net, where he is faced with what is possibly the best passing shot artist in history. Not to mention I never deemed Nadal's backhand garbage.

Limpinhitter
10-06-2012, 06:43 AM
It is funny how Federer fans think Federer has the better forehand, better backhand, as good or better movement, yet he loses most of the baseline rallies in 85% of their matches (basically every match that wasnt indoors).

It is funny. It's other things too.

dangalak
10-06-2012, 06:47 AM
It is funny. It's other things too.

Seriously, how can you be a regular of the Former Players forum, yet be so ignorant of this sport?

President
10-06-2012, 07:40 AM
There are some delusional people in this thread, Federer's backhand is definitely better right now especially on a hard or grass court. Nadal's backhand used to be a damn good shot but it's deteriorated into a weak push. He really can't do anything with that shot any more and is utterly desperate to run around it to hit forehands (even more so than Federer).

On the other hand, IMO Nadal's forehand is currently better than Federer's on most of the tour surfaces. Federer's forehand is still easily the second best on tour and by far the best on faster surfaces and indoors but overall Nadal has it these days by a decent margin.

TheF1Bob
10-06-2012, 07:54 AM
LOL what a joke this thread is. Federer HANDS DOWN!!!... owns ****** in that department.

Silly *****. :lol:

RF20Lennon
10-06-2012, 08:01 AM
LOL what a joke this thread is. Federer HANDS DOWN!!!... owns ****** in that department.

Silly *****. :lol:

Oh how we have missed you! F1 :D

Evan77
10-06-2012, 08:22 AM
Fed's BH is pretty. Rafa BH is fugly. It's all about beauty btw.
Fed's hair > Rafa's :-)
Mirka sexier than Xsisca, lol, OK I'll shut up

RF20Lennon
10-06-2012, 08:24 AM
Fed's BH is pretty. Rafa BH is fugly. It's all about beauty btw.
Fed's hair > Rafa's :-)
Mirka sexier than Xsisca, lol, OK I'll shut up

Oh no!! he's gone to the dark side :shock:

tennis_pro
10-06-2012, 08:36 AM
It is funny how Federer fans think Federer has the better forehand, better backhand, as good or better movement, yet he loses most of the baseline rallies in 85% of their matches (basically every match that wasnt indoors).

That's because most of their rallies are Nadal's forehand to Federer's backhand, while I think Federer's backhand can live with Nadal's forehand on faster surfaces, especially indoors, on clay it's a tough task.

dangalak
10-06-2012, 08:44 AM
Fed's BH is pretty. Rafa BH is fugly. It's all about beauty btw.
Fed's hair > Rafa's :-)
Mirka sexier than Xsisca, lol, OK I'll shut up

You know how hot Mirka used to be. :)

On the other hand, IMO Nadal's forehand is currently better than Federer's on most of the tour surfaces. Federer's forehand is still easily the second best on tour and by far the best on faster surfaces and indoors but overall Nadal has it these days by a decent margin.

I disagree. Federer penetrates the court a lot easier and has an easier time picking up halfvolleys from the baseline and hitting FH DTLs. Last but not least, he also has more touch and variety from that wing. Don't laugh, his forehand dropshots can be really lethal. Nadal on the other hand is underusing them.

I would give Nadal advantages in consistency and on the run, but the latter is mostly movement anyway.

I would definitely pick Nadal's on a claycourt, but Federer everywhere else.

beast of mallorca
10-06-2012, 08:51 AM
That's because most of their rallies are Nadal's forehand to Federer's backhand, while I think Federer's backhand can live with Nadal's forehand on faster surfaces, especially indoors, on clay it's a tough task.

then that means the rallies are being controlled by Rafa. Why can't Fed change the character of their rallies then and impose himself if he if so darn good ?

dangalak
10-06-2012, 08:52 AM
then that means the rallies are being controlled by Rafa. Why can't Fed change the character of their rallies then and impose himself if he if so darn good ?

Because Nadal has wicked passing shots.

TTMR
10-06-2012, 08:53 AM
That's because most of their rallies are Nadal's forehand to Federer's backhand

Why are most of their rallies this way? Federer, who is better at everything according to his fans, and is the more aggressive player, should be the one dictating play and sending his forehands to Nadal's backhand much more than vice-versa. Federer has the better serve: he should be following up Nadal's weak returns (remember, Nadal is a "terrible returner") by pounding the short return to Nadal's backhand over and over again. Yet the rallies almost always--via some unseen demonic force--reverse and Nadal ends up being the one in control dictating play and attacking the Federer backhand.

while I think Federer's backhand can live with Nadal's forehand on faster surfaces, especially indoors, on clay it's a tough task.

The fact that Federer needs a fast surface to realize his backhand is an argument against the strength of Federer's backhand, not for it. On a fast indoor surface Federer can flick the ball down the line using the other guy's pace for a winner. On a slow court, he can't generate sufficient pace most of the time to hit backhand winners. When he hits them it is by redirecting a hard hit ball from a perfect angle. He has to run around a not very hard hit short ball to hit a forehand because he cannot generate the power needed on his backhand.

dangalak
10-06-2012, 08:58 AM
Why are most of their rallies this way? Federer, who is better at everything according to his fans, and is the more aggressive player, should be the one dictating play and sending his forehands to Nadal's backhand much more than vice-versa. Federer has the better serve: he should be following up Nadal's weak returns (remember, Nadal is a "terrible returner") by pounding the short return to Nadal's backhand over and over again. Yet the rallies almost always--via some unseen demonic force--reverse and Nadal ends up being the one in control dictating play and attacking the Federer backhand.

Federer has to be incredibly aggressive to dominate Nadal. (i.e. stand in his BH corner and drill forehands)

Nadal can just wail away from his forehand corner and hit an I/O FH when he pleases. :lol:

And please, stop making up strawman FGS. He is a decent returner, especially when Federer's serve is concerned. His passing shots also make it difficult when Federer has a shorter ball, something he would easily follow to the net if he faced another player.

TTMR
10-06-2012, 09:01 AM
Federer has to be incredibly aggressive to dominate Nadal. (i.e. stand in his BH corner and drill forehands)

Nadal can just wail away from his forehand corner and hit an I/O FH when he pleases. :lol:

And please, stop making up strawman FGS. He is a decent returner, especially when Federer's serve is concerned. His passing shots also make it difficult when Federer has a shorter ball, something he would easily follow to the net if he faced another player.

I know you are giving Nadal credit on his returns, speed and passing shots, but most Federer fans here do not. I am attacking their positions as well.

Polaris
10-06-2012, 09:14 AM
Ok. im kinda new here so i dunno but how come 90% of the threads are polls like "who has better fh?" "who has better bh" "better shoes" "nicest hair"..
whats the point?

The point, faranell, is this:

1. Many of the most active posters here (those who start threads) are previously banned posters returning under new usernames.
2. They have time. Lots of time.
3. They have nothing better to do than to spend every waking hour on an internet forum.

Eg. The OP has been on the forum for less than a month. During that time, he has started 25 threads and has more than 450 posts.

So, what does one do? One can ignore users but there is no tool to prevent us from seeing this explosive diarrhoea of inane threads. So, you just try to go away from the forums for weeks at a time. When you come back, you discover that you've missed nothing. Works for me all the time.

Or better, just go to the Racquets subforum. That is still a saner forum than General Pro Player discussion and Pro-Match Results.

dangalak
10-06-2012, 09:38 AM
The fact that Federer needs a fast surface to realize his backhand is an argument against the strength of Federer's backhand, not for it. On a fast indoor surface Federer can flick the ball down the line using the other guy's pace for a winner. On a slow court, he can't generate sufficient pace most of the time to hit backhand winners. When he hits them it is by redirecting a hard hit ball from a perfect angle. He has to run around a not very hard hit short ball to hit a forehand because he cannot generate the power needed on his backhand.

I dunno, he can certainly create pace as well. Just not very often off Nadal's balls. :lol:

The point, faranell, is this:

1. Many of the most active posters here (those who start threads) are previously banned posters returning under new usernames.
2. They have time. Lots of time.
3. They have nothing better to do than to spend every waking hour on an internet forum.

Eg. The OP has been on the forum for less than a month. During that time, he has started 25 threads and has more than 450 posts.

So, what does one do? One can ignore users but there is no tool to prevent us from seeing this explosive diarrhoea of inane threads. So, you just try to go away from the forums for weeks at a time. When you come back, you discover that you've missed nothing. Work for me all the time.

Or better, just go to the Racquets subforum. That is still a saner forum than General Pro Player discussion and Pro-Match Results.

I have been banned true, but I didn't need to make a dupe, they just unbanned me. :lol:

What's wrong with comparing their current BHs? Clearly there is some room for dicussion.

Why is diarrhea always referred to as "explosive"? I don't think I've ever smashed a toilet after a burrito. :lol:

GOAT BAAH!!!
10-06-2012, 10:39 AM
The Nadal backhand has declined considerably in the passed couple of years...wonder how much has to do with how aggressively he planted on the right knee from a full sprint to achieve the torque necessary to rip it cross court

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE_RqaEsBiM

cc0509
10-06-2012, 11:12 AM
It is funny how Federer fans think Federer has the better forehand, better backhand, as good or better movement, yet he loses most of the baseline rallies in 85% of their matches (basically every match that wasnt indoors).

In terms of forehand shot, Federer and Nadal's are both great. I would give the slight edge to Federer.

Backhand shot, probably about equal but Federer has more variety.

Movement--if you are talking footwork, Federer is better; if you are talking sheer athleticism and defence, Nadal is much better, one of the best ever in the game.

kragster
10-06-2012, 11:46 AM
Right now Fed's BH is easily a lot more potent than Nadal's. Only during the 08 Wimby to 09 AO period and then USO 10, did Rafa's BH look like a killer weapon. Otherwise I would take Fed's BH any day. Of course Djoker and Murray are in a different league altogether in the BH department, just like Fed/Rafa are in a different league in the FH dept.

tennis_pro
10-06-2012, 12:44 PM
then that means the rallies are being controlled by Rafa. Why can't Fed change the character of their rallies then and impose himself if he if so darn good ?

Try hitting a shoulder height one-handed backhand and you'll get your answer.

tennis_pro
10-06-2012, 12:46 PM
I know you are giving Nadal credit on his returns, speed and passing shots, but most Federer fans here do not. I am attacking their positions as well.

I do as well. Just because I never talk about it (or Federer fans in general), it doesn't mean that I don't give him any credit.

Federer20042006
10-06-2012, 01:55 PM
Federer actually did pound Nadal's backhand to great effect in Indian Wells this year.

But historically, Federer's forehand hasn't troubled Nadal's backhand that much. Not because Nadal has a better backhand, but because Federer's forehand doesn't force errors the way Nadal's forehand does. Federer hits flatter and tries to hit around/through you. Nadal just wears Federer's backhand down with shots that jump to heights outside his comfort zone.

It's kind of like how Nadal's serve gives Federer so much trouble in comparison to Federer's serve vs. Nadal. It's just different styles causing different problems. I doubt anyone thinks Nadal has a better serve than Federer.

Nadal does and always has moved better than Federer, though. Nadal's recovery is unparalleled.

tusharlovesrafa
10-06-2012, 09:05 PM
What?

Nadal, by far. Much more consistent, less prone to shanking and a more solid shot overall.

Federer has the worst backhand in the top 4. It's obviously still a hellavashot, but there is no way it is better than Nadal's.

Nope.Fed's backhand is still better on fast surfaces.And he could still come up with great shots from time to time.IMO Nadal is more consistent but at times it lacks penetration.:)

okdude1992
10-06-2012, 09:15 PM
nadal's backhand I honestly think has gotten worse. It looked incredible when he won the AO a few years back, but in 2011 and somewhat this year, his backhand was shaky. Federer's has declined also. That shot used to be a weapon. But as of now I say Fed, becasue all round he played better in 2011, and most of 2012

Federer20042006
10-07-2012, 06:37 PM
The fact that Federer needs a fast surface to realize his backhand is an argument against the strength of Federer's backhand, not for it. On a fast indoor surface Federer can flick the ball down the line using the other guy's pace for a winner. On a slow court, he can't generate sufficient pace most of the time to hit backhand winners. When he hits them it is by redirecting a hard hit ball from a perfect angle. He has to run around a not very hard hit short ball to hit a forehand because he cannot generate the power needed on his backhand.

That's not even remotely true. Nadal doesn't feed him pace with the CC forehand, yet when they're on a low bouncing surface, Federer kills him with his backhand.

And maybe you missed him drilling backhand winners all match long against Tomic at the AO this year?

Federer's got all the power in the world off his backhand, so long as it's in his strike zone.

winstonplum
10-09-2012, 10:29 PM
It is funny how Federer fans think Federer has the better forehand, better backhand, as good or better movement, yet he loses most of the baseline rallies in 85% of their matches (basically every match that wasnt indoors).

Federer has the better forehand, is a better server, volleyer, and we can call their backhands a wash. However, until 2011 Nadal was the best mover on the tour, and one of the greatest retrievers of seemingly irretrievable balls in the history of the game. Nadal also has extremely good hands for soft angle shots up at the net; not necessarily volleys, but pick-ups, re-directions and the like, perhaps more so than Federer. Nadal also had, up until the last year and a half, a spectacular overhead. And ultimately and most importantly, from the very beginning in KB in 2004, Nadal had total belief that he was good enough to beat Federer, which approximately zero percent of the other players on the tour had.

dangalak
10-09-2012, 11:01 PM
Federer has the better forehand, is a better server, volleyer, and we can call their backhands a wash. However, until 2011 Nadal was the best mover on the tour, and one of the greatest retrievers of seemingly irretrievable balls in the history of the game. Nadal also has extremely good hands for soft angle shots up at the net; not necessarily volleys, but pick-ups, re-directions and the like, perhaps more so than Federer. Nadal also had, up until the last year and a half, a spectacular overhead. And ultimately and most importantly, from the very beginning in KB in 2004, Nadal had total belief that he was good enough to beat Federer, which approximately zero percent of the other players on the tour had.

Nalbandian, for one, never lacked belief that he could beat Federer. This comparison of Federer with Mike Tyson and that people were beaten before they stepped on court is an exeggaration. Some did, but not all. Not to mention, people didn't just start to fear him after he cut off his ponytail or something. They didn't believe they could beat him, because in all likelihood, they couldn't. Everybody saw the demolition jobs he was capable of.

And I disagree with some of your observations. Nadal never had the soft hands that Federer has. (just watch his match against Tomic in AO) But he typically is extremely calm in such situations, moreso than Roger.

I disagree that Federer's BH and Nadal's is a wash. Federer's is superior. Saying their forehands is a wash would be more accurate.

JMR
10-10-2012, 07:02 AM
Why are most of their rallies this way? Federer, who is better at everything according to his fans, and is the more aggressive player, should be the one dictating play and sending his forehands to Nadal's backhand much more than vice-versa.

This is all pretty straightforward, and has been understood by most people (by which I mean fans, pundits, and Fed and Nadal themselves for years):

Federer FH > Nadal FH (slightly)
Federer BH > Nadal BH
but
Nadal FH > Federer BH
and most important,
Nadal pattern imposition > Federer pattern imposition.

The last statement means that Nadal is superior at imposing a repetitive pattern of play, namely, his forehand to Fed's backhand in baseline rallies. There are two main reasons for this superiority: First, Nadal has a simpler game, so he doesn't really lose anything by hitting the same shot over and over. If the single shot employed is good -- and Nadal's is very, very good -- then the more the merrier for Nadal. In both tennis and table tennis, heavy topspin has always been a repetitive, grind-'em-down tool. In contrast, Federer's greater reliance on variety means that he diminishes his own effectiveness by becoming repetitive, even if that approach also hurts his opponent somewhat. A predictable Fed is a lesser Fed.

Second, Nadal is better-equipped psychologically to lock into a single groove for much of a match. He's more dogged than Federer, more obsessive and consistent, and less concerned about aesthetics.

NadalAgassi
10-10-2012, 06:21 PM
If Federer had the better forehand and better backhand than the Federer forehand vs Nadal backhand rallies would be even worse for Nadal than the Nadal forehand vs Federer backhand rallies which is far from the case. In fact in most of their matches Nadal's backhand more than holds it own vs Federer's forehand in those exchanges, while the Nadal forehand dominates the Federer backhand. Yet despite this Federer amazingly has the superior forehand, superior backhand, superior movement (according to most ****s, just look at the better mover polls between them), and superior all else from the baseline, even while getting owned from the baseline in 85% of their matches, including a number of his wins. Planet **** is truly a great comedy land.

tudwell
10-10-2012, 07:00 PM
Nadal's forehand is more consistent and less prone to errors, but it's also less of a weapon. In 2008-2009, Nadal's backhand was incredible. He hit the most insane flat crosscourt winners off of it no matter how wide he was pulled. But he's always struggled taking it down the line and adding variety.

Federer, on the other hand, has a lot of variety, but his backhand breaks down more. I think they both fit their respective games very well. If push came to shove, I'd rather have Federer's backhand than Nadal's, but it's a close call.

smoledman
10-10-2012, 07:17 PM
Theoretically a lefty should always have the advantage on a righty.

smoledman
10-10-2012, 07:18 PM
If Federer had the better forehand and better backhand than the Federer forehand vs Nadal backhand rallies would be even worse for Nadal than the Nadal forehand vs Federer backhand rallies which is far from the case. In fact in most of their matches Nadal's backhand more than holds it own vs Federer's forehand in those exchanges, while the Nadal forehand dominates the Federer backhand. Yet despite this Federer amazingly has the superior forehand, superior backhand, superior movement (according to most ****s, just look at the better mover polls between them), and superior all else from the baseline, even while getting owned from the baseline in 85% of their matches, including a number of his wins. Planet **** is truly a great comedy land.

Here in "****" land we're celebrating the World #1 with a RECORD 17 slams.

dangalak
10-10-2012, 07:59 PM
If Federer had the better forehand and better backhand than the Federer forehand vs Nadal backhand rallies would be even worse for Nadal than the Nadal forehand vs Federer backhand rallies which is far from the case. In fact in most of their matches Nadal's backhand more than holds it own vs Federer's forehand in those exchanges, while the Nadal forehand dominates the Federer backhand. Yet despite this Federer amazingly has the superior forehand, superior backhand, superior movement (according to most ****s, just look at the better mover polls between them), and superior all else from the baseline, even while getting owned from the baseline in 85% of their matches, including a number of his wins. Planet **** is truly a great comedy land.

Nadal doesn't have a one handed backhand you genius. Nadal's forehand in particular works well against Federer's BH in particular.

Besides, there WAS a time when Nadal has a better backhand. This is not now.

NadalAgassi
10-10-2012, 08:01 PM
Here in "****" land we're celebrating the World #1 with a RECORD 17 slams.

So you are a glory hunter, good for you. By the same logic a Laver fan could say they are celebrating his 2 Calendar Slams while Federer wasnt talented or good enough to even manage 1, and while it is proven he is still in all GOAT debates 40 years after retiring, something which is a long way from remaining to be seen for Federer. A Graf fan could say they are celebrating a player with 22 slams and as many or more slams as Federer at every venue (6 times as many at Roland Garros, lol). A Serena fan could say they are celebrating her continued dominance of the womens game and growing greater by the day GOAT talk, and that unlike Federer she dominates the game amongst her gender and all her main rivals to the extreme at age 30. A Kournikova fan could be celebrating that despite being a tennis mug she is richer than pretty much all these other greats we are discussing. A Nadal fan could say they are celebrating his ascent to undisputed clay court GOAT, and probably on clay being the all time GOAT of any player on any surface, becoming the only man in history to win multiple slams on all 3 major surfaces, the only man in history to win a slam on each of the 3 major surfaces in the same year, and his total ownage of the so called GOAT Federer. A Court fan could be celebrating that despite how Americans try to lowball her greatness she has 24 singles slams and 62 total slams, records that perhaps nobody, man or women, in history will ever reach (especialy the latter). And so on...

Prisoner of Birth
10-10-2012, 09:20 PM
So you are a glory hunter, good for you. By the same logic a Laver fan could say they are celebrating his 2 Calendar Slams while Federer wasnt talented or good enough to even manage 1, and while it is proven he is still in all GOAT debates 40 years after retiring, something which is a long way from remaining to be seen for Federer. A Graf fan could say they are celebrating a player with 22 slams and as many or more slams as Federer at every venue (6 times as many at Roland Garros, lol). A Serena fan could say they are celebrating her continued dominance of the womens game and growing greater by the day GOAT talk, and that unlike Federer she dominates the game amongst her gender and all her main rivals to the extreme at age 30. A Kournikova fan could be celebrating that despite being a tennis mug she is richer than pretty much all these other greats we are discussing. A Nadal fan could say they are celebrating his ascent to undisputed clay court GOAT, and probably on clay being the all time GOAT of any player on any surface, becoming the only man in history to win multiple slams on all 3 major surfaces, the only man in history to win a slam on each of the 3 major surfaces in the same year, and his total ownage of the so called GOAT Federer. A Court fan could be celebrating that despite how Americans try to lowball her greatness she has 24 singles slams and 62 total slams, records that perhaps nobody, man or women, in history will ever reach (especialy the latter). And so on...

1 of Laver's Grand Slams was against amateurs. He has just 5 Grand Slams against the real professionals. Federer has 17 :)

Serena, Graf are from WTA, not ATP. I'm not sure why you keep bringing them up. Because no one in the ATP have come close to Federer's accomplishments and you have no choice but to go to the WTA for comparison? :lol: I can sympathize with that.

dangalak
10-10-2012, 09:20 PM
Except that Federer is pretty obviously superior to just about any other tennis player in the game.

OverratedIvanovic
10-10-2012, 09:36 PM
On clay, plexi, IW, Miami courts, Rafa's BH is better. On others, Federer's BH is better. However w.r.t shotmaking skills alone, Federer's BH is superior by a countrymile except maybe passing shots.

dangalak
10-10-2012, 09:41 PM
On clay, plexi, IW, Miami courts, Rafa's BH is better. On others, Federer's BH is better. However w.r.t shotmaking skills alone, Federer's BH is superior by a countrymile except maybe passing shots.

Nadal's passing shots on his BH side aren't that great. More of a FH guy.

I don't agree with Federer's BH being worse on slow harcourt, he can take it early and the surface doesn't take that much spin.

Nadal can't hit DTL with any authority, which is why I cannot accept it being a better shot than Federer's BH atm.

OverratedIvanovic
10-10-2012, 10:11 PM
Nadal's passing shots on his BH side aren't that great. More of a FH guy.

Really :???: ?So who has better BH passing shots if not Nadal? Djokovic is the only one who comes close and is mostly good at cross court passing shots. Nadal can hit insane passing shots both DTL and cross court. Watch his AO 2012 semis match with Federer again.

I don't agree with Federer's BH being worse on slow hardcourt, he can take it early and the surface doesn't take that much spin.

Well its debatable. Against rest of the field not including Djokovic and Nadal, I can agree. But Federer's BH is exposed against these 2 guys on a slow HC since he can't hit through the court (example AO 2011 straight set loss against Djokovic).

I disagree that these surfaces don't take that much spin. I mean obviously Plexi and Miami courts are one of the slowest and highest bouncing courts, not sure what makes you say they dont take much spin?

Nadal can't hit DTL with any authority, which is why I cannot accept it being a better shot than Federer's BH atm.

Yea I do agree he has problems with his DTL BH but its noticeably better than 2011. Overall his BH is a more solid and consistent shot on slow HC than Federer, doesn't tend to break down that often (except maybe some of his matches vs Djokovic in 2011) but as I said above in terms of shotmaking, Federer's BH is unmatched.

MTF07
10-11-2012, 04:02 AM
So you are a glory hunter, good for you. By the same logic a Laver fan could say they are celebrating his 2 Calendar Slams while Federer wasnt talented or good enough to even manage 1, and while it is proven he is still in all GOAT debates 40 years after retiring, something which is a long way from remaining to be seen for Federer. A Graf fan could say they are celebrating a player with 22 slams and as many or more slams as Federer at every venue (6 times as many at Roland Garros, lol). A Serena fan could say they are celebrating her continued dominance of the womens game and growing greater by the day GOAT talk, and that unlike Federer she dominates the game amongst her gender and all her main rivals to the extreme at age 30. A Kournikova fan could be celebrating that despite being a tennis mug she is richer than pretty much all these other greats we are discussing. A Nadal fan could say they are celebrating his ascent to undisputed clay court GOAT, and probably on clay being the all time GOAT of any player on any surface, becoming the only man in history to win multiple slams on all 3 major surfaces, the only man in history to win a slam on each of the 3 major surfaces in the same year, and his total ownage of the so called GOAT Federer. A Court fan could be celebrating that despite how Americans try to lowball her greatness she has 24 singles slams and 62 total slams, records that perhaps nobody, man or women, in history will ever reach (especialy the latter). And so on...
And a Federer fan might point out that Federer would go 100-0 with a grand slam every single year on the WTA tour.