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View Full Version : Raonic, clearly the next guy to break through and win a slam.


tistrapukcipeht
10-06-2012, 06:50 AM
I don't see anybody else besides him, no one else has enough game at a relatively comfort level (big serve gets it done) to beat the top guys.

Fed, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray and Del Potro have won, only guy besides these in prospect is Raonic, young enough with huge game and still can get a lot better.

What do you guys think?

cc0509
10-06-2012, 07:26 AM
I don't see anybody else besides him, no one else has enough game at a relatively comfort level (big serve gets it done) to beat the top guys.

Fed, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray and Del Potro have won, only guy besides these in prospect is Raonic, young enough with huge game and still can get a lot better.

What do you guys think?

Out of the younger guys nobody else is even close to Milos' chances. He is the only one who has the potential to win a slam in the future.

The Bawss
10-06-2012, 07:33 AM
Just becausey he beat LOLrray doesn't mean he is going to break through. Bogomolov and Young beat LOLrray too, are they about to break through?

TheF1Bob
10-06-2012, 07:37 AM
Just becausey he beat LOLrray doesn't mean he is going to break through. Bogomolov and Young beat LOLrray too, are they about to break through?

Don't diss the future man.

cc0509
10-06-2012, 07:40 AM
Just becausey he beat LOLrray doesn't mean he is going to break through. Bogomolov and Young beat LOLrray too, are they about to break through?

There is no comparison bewteen Raonic and guys like Bogomolov and Young. I'll tell you why a guy like Raonic is going to break through, he has the drive to do so, you can see it a mile away. Very few players have that drive. That will make the difference for Milos. Book it.

Evan77
10-06-2012, 07:40 AM
I'd say easy, easy. It's too early. Rao needs to improve dramatically many aspects of his game in order to win a major. not even close. let's see if he can win a master or a 500 event first before we talk about slams.

cc0509
10-06-2012, 07:49 AM
I'd say easy, easy. It's too early. Rao needs to improve dramatically many aspects of his game in order to win a major. not even close. let's see if he can win a master or a 500 event first before we talk about slams.

I agree he has a long way to go to win a slam but he is the only one with potential to do so out of the young guns. The rest are a pack of losers imo, guys like Tomic, Young, Dimitrov, etc. Those guys either don't have enough talent or if the have the talent they don't have the mental component necessary to be at the top. Milos has both potentially. A few weeks ago, I was saying he had terrible movement, a terrible return of serve and a mediocre backhand. If you watched the match against Murray yesterday, you could plainly see that Milos has dramatically improved his backhand, ROS and net game. That shows that he is very driven to succeed and that is what will make the difference for him.

Now he has to go out there and continue to beat top players and win, that is the key. Up until now, he has not been able to do that, he will win an important match or two and then fold in the next, but he is learning so hopefully that will change soon. I just see a huge drive in him that I don't see in any of the other players below the top four.

Evan77
10-06-2012, 08:03 AM
I agree he has a long way to go to win a slam but he is the only one with potential to do so out of the young guns. The rest are a pack of losers imo, guys like Tomic, Young, Dimitrov, etc. Those guys either don't have enough talent or if the have the talent they don't have the mental component necessary to be at the top. Milos has both potentially. A few weeks ago, I was saying he had terrible movement, a terrible return of serve and a mediocre backhand. If you watched the match against Murray yesterday, you could plainly see that Milos has dramatically improved his backhand, ROS and net game. That shows that he is very driven to succeed and that is what will make the difference for him.

Now he has to go out there and continue to beat top players and win, that is the key. Up until now, he has not been able to do that, he will win an important match or two and then fold in the next, but he is learning so hopefully that will change soon. I just see a huge drive in him that I don't see in any of the other players below the top four.
yes, he seems to be the strongest one in 'the youngsters category' for sure, and he is very driven, no question there. However, I'm just being couscous here, don't want to hype him too much, not yet.

Mainad
10-06-2012, 08:04 AM
Just becausey he beat LOLrray doesn't mean he is going to break through. Bogomolov and Young beat LOLrray too, are they about to break through?

Murray has lost to a lot of guys when unfocussed and unmotivated eg. Young and Bogomolov. Those 2 guys only did it the once. They've been blasted off the court in all their subsequent encounters with him.

Raonic, on the other hand, has now beaten Murray twice and yesterday's match was a down the wire thriller against a guy who, although a bit more error prone than usual, was highly motivated to win the tournament and defend his title. Raonic fought back against a break down in the final set and 2 match points at 5-6. It was his willpower and nerve that saw him through when every other lesser ranked player woulld have shut up shop at that point. Clearly he is highly motivated to win against even the very top players and this suggests he has the ambition and game to take it all the way. Only time will tell if he succeeds but he seems to have every chance to do so.

kishnabe
10-06-2012, 08:10 AM
If aby of the HC slams are as fast as Tokyo. Then I can see it.


For now Tsonga is the next guy....he is in his Prime years...something got to happen.

Raonic has 4 years to make his mark.

Russeljones
10-06-2012, 08:12 AM
You are saying this after one win vs Murray?

sigh..

cc0509
10-06-2012, 08:12 AM
Murray has lost to a lot of guys when unfocussed and unmotivated eg. Young and Bogomolov. Those 2 guys only did it the once. They've been blasted off the court in all their subsequent encounters with him.

Raonic, on the other hand, has now beaten Murray twice and yesterday's match was a down the wire thriller against a guy who, although a bit more error prone than usual, was highly motivated to win the tournament and defend his title. Raonic fought back against a break down in the final set and 2 match points at 5-6. It was his willpower and nerve that saw him through when every other lesser ranked player woulld have shut up shop at that point. Clearly he is highly motivated to win against even the very top players and this suggests he has the ambition and game to take it all the way. Only time will tell if he succeeds but he seems to have every chance to do so.


That is exactly how I see it. When you see that type of drive which is so rare today and only the very top players have it, that is the biggest indicator of future success imo.

Also, I recently saw an interview with Milos' mother and she was talking about how motivated her son was even when he was a young kid. He would be the one to pester his parents all the time to go out and practise. A person either has that type of drive to succeed or they don't . It can't be manufactured.

Mainad
10-06-2012, 08:16 AM
I'd say easy, easy. It's too early. Rao needs to improve dramatically many aspects of his game in order to win a major. not even close. let's see if he can win a master or a 500 event first before we talk about slams.

Bear in mind that Del Potro won a Slam without ever winning a Masters title so it's not impossible that Raonic could do the same but I agree he needs to have a strong showing in the lead up events. He has an excellent chance to take his first 500 title in Tokyo tomorrow which will be a good start for him.

NadalDramaQueen
10-06-2012, 08:21 AM
You are saying this after one win vs Murray?

sigh..

After his second win vs. Murray in addition to giving Fed nearly all he could handle multiple times. Not to mention that he is clearly the best of the young generation right now.

Say what you want about his game, but at least he isn't bending over for the top four before he even steps onto the court. Stranger things have happened.

underground
10-06-2012, 08:35 AM
Raonic is doing good in the normal events, beaten LOLrray twice and manage to take a set off the GOAT each time they played (twice to a final set TB). But needs to do something with Bo5 matches.

RF20Lennon
10-06-2012, 08:37 AM
Im not sure if he can get through DONALD YOUNG!!

tennis_pro
10-06-2012, 08:38 AM
Yep, I agree.

Raonic for the 2017 US Open!

RF20Lennon
10-06-2012, 08:50 AM
Yep, I agree.

Raonic for the 2017 US Open!

TRUE THAT!!

dangalak
10-06-2012, 08:55 AM
Raonic, still overrated.

But I got to hand it to him, he has good volleys and he doesn't engage in meaningless rallies. He drills a forehand in either corner and comes forward, like he should be.

AnotherTennisProdigy
10-06-2012, 09:14 AM
You are saying this after one win vs Murray?

sigh..

Second, actually.

sureshs
10-06-2012, 09:20 AM
Milos Rao is fantastic to watch because of his serve, and is a sportsman tennis need not be ashamed of (height and power).

LBR1
10-06-2012, 09:23 AM
Key thing, he solved his biggest problem, passivity under pressure.
How many guys struggle with their issues year in and never adjust?

How long did it take Murray to get some cahones? Milos was a beast
and I can assure you the top 10 are quivvering in their Nikes.

He didn't rely on passive rallies waiting for the other guy to make a mistake,
and I hope he keeps that going. Whether he could do that consistantly
through 5 sets for two weeks is another story. I hope so. If he can,
then i can certainly contend.

ruerooo
10-06-2012, 09:23 AM
Bear in mind that Del Potro won a Slam without ever winning a Masters title so it's not impossible that Raonic could do the same but I agree he needs to have a strong showing in the lead up events. He has an excellent chance to take his first 500 title in Tokyo tomorrow which will be a good start for him.


None of his other titles were 500s? San Jose I think is a 250, but ... ?

ruerooo
10-06-2012, 09:25 AM
Milos Rao is fantastic to watch because of his serve, and is a sportsman tennis need not be ashamed of (height and power).

Why would "height and power" be something that would make fans of the sport more or less "ashamed" of a player?

BrATomic has both, and I'm regularly embarrassed that he's in the sport.

:-?

I like Milos because
- he works hard
- he fights
- when he has trouble with something he learns, and adjusts.

tacou
10-06-2012, 09:26 AM
Guy bets Murray in a 500 and we are talking slams again?

50% of the Raonic threads are about him winning slams, the other 50% compare him to Isner/Karlovic.

Raonic is so much better than his peers because he has a weapon already. His serve is one of the best ever. However, he might not develop a ground game around it. There's no way of knowing.

I saw him play in Newport this summer, lost very comfortably to Ben Becker. His slam results so far have not indicated anything special.

merwy
10-06-2012, 09:30 AM
You know what the problem is that I have with Raonic? I think he has a solid game and all, with the strong serve and steady baseline game. His serve will win him his service games. And his blunt and somewhat sluggish game is offensive enough to get a break in most sets and otherwise he can just play a tiebreak, which he also does well in because of his serve.

But I just don't see much room for improvement. I feel like.. this is it, you know? This is all we're going to see from him. He isn't going to suddenly change his technique and play like Federer or Djokovic, he will keep his clumsy technique and good serve. What is he going to improve? Serve harder? His movement might be improvable, but he will always keep moving uncomfortably because of his length. Same with Isner and Karlovic.

Nevertheless, he might get some Grand Slams here and there. If he keeps serving great throughout the tournament he might win it. And after the top 4 retires, he has time to win something big.

sureshs
10-06-2012, 09:33 AM
Why would "height and power" be something that would make fans of the sport more or less "ashamed" of a player?


Because they give tennis a wimpy image

Tennisguy3000
10-06-2012, 09:34 AM
It was nice to see his improved movement, shot making & touch... I hope to see him win a slam ;-)

dangalak
10-06-2012, 09:34 AM
You know what the problem is that I have with Raonic? I think he has a solid game and all, with the strong serve and steady baseline game. His serve will win him his service games. And his blunt and somewhat sluggish game is offensive enough to get a break in most sets and otherwise he can just play a tiebreak, which he also does well in because of his serve.

But I just don't see much room for improvement. I feel like.. this is it, you know? This is all we're going to see from him. He isn't going to suddenly change his technique and play like Federer or Djokovic, he will keep his clumsy technique and good serve. What is he going to improve? Serve harder? His movement might be improvable, but he will always keep moving uncomfortably because of his length. Same with Isner and Karlovic.

Nevertheless, he might get some Grand Slams here and there. If he keeps serving great throughout the tournament he might win it. And after the top 4 retires, he has time to win something big.

:confused:

Prisoner of Birth
10-06-2012, 09:35 AM
I don't see anybody else besides him, no one else has enough game at a relatively comfort level (big serve gets it done) to beat the top guys.

Fed, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray and Del Potro have won, only guy besides these in prospect is Raonic, young enough with huge game and still can get a lot better.

What do you guys think?

I like watching him play. Wouldn't mind him getting one.

norbac
10-06-2012, 09:51 AM
Let's see him make the Quarters of a Slam first. I would actually like to see him do well, looks like a real nice guy and even though I'm usually not into watching big serving games, I really don't mind watching Milos.

Gut Check
10-06-2012, 10:15 AM
But I just don't see much room for improvement. I feel like.. this is it, you know? This is all we're going to see from him. He isn't going to suddenly change his technique and play like Federer or Djokovic, he will keep his clumsy technique and good serve. What is he going to improve? Serve harder? His movement might be improvable, but he will always keep moving uncomfortably because of his length. Same with Isner and Karlovic.

He always gets lumped in with Karlovic and Isner in discussions about awkward movement, but he's really only in that group because of the quality of his serve. Physically, it's more appropriate to group him with players like Del Potro and Berdych. Unlikely Raonic's ground game will ever improve to the level of Berdych, mush less Del Potro, but it doesn't necessarily have to. Raonic has a bigger serve than either of them, and a willingness to go to the net.

In terms of areas for improvement, he could use a marginal bump in movement and endurance (those will come if he puts continues to put in the work like it seems he is doing already) but after that it's all between the ears. The top players always say that at a certain point in the rankings after which they all have significant abilities, it's a mental game more than anything else, especially on the key points. Raonic demonstrates many positive mental qualities already. Far beyond the other players in his generation, which is why he's already compiling a good record and the others mostly are not.

Who is to say whether Raonic can continue developing the mental side? If he can, he'll come across some big opportunities in his career. If he doesn't then you are probably correct his big results will be more spotty.

Mainad
10-06-2012, 10:15 AM
How long did it take Murray to get some cahones?

By the time he was the same age as Raonic is now ie. 21 years and 9 months, Murray had already won 10 titles including 2 Masters and a 500 and had just appeared in his first Slam final, beating the world #1 Nadal to get there!

Mainad
10-06-2012, 10:21 AM
None of his other titles were 500s? San Jose I think is a 250, but ... ?

He currently has 3 titles, all 250s: 2011 & 2012 San Jose and 2012 Chennai. The biggest tournament finals he has made so far are 2011 and 2012 Memphis and 2012 Tokyo, all 500s.

smoledman
10-06-2012, 10:47 AM
500 != slams.

cc0509
10-06-2012, 11:04 AM
But I just don't see much room for improvement. I feel like.. this is it, you know? This is all we're going to see from him. He isn't going to suddenly change his technique and play like Federer or Djokovic, he will keep his clumsy technique and good serve. What is he going to improve? Serve harder? His movement might be improvable, but he will always keep moving uncomfortably because of his length. Same with Isner and Karlovic.

Nevertheless, he might get some Grand Slams here and there. If he keeps serving great throughout the tournament he might win it. And after the top 4 retires, he has time to win something big.

I think you may be incorrect here. If you saw the match between Raonic and Murray in Tokyo you would have seen that Milos has improved in key areas such as his backhand, net play and ROS. He also was able to hang in there under pressure and not fold mentally as he has in the past in big match moments. He is much better than Isner and Karlovic imo.

I think he may have the goods to go all the way, we will have to see. Watch, now he will probably lose to Nishikori in the final. :oops:

merwy
10-06-2012, 12:49 PM
:confused:

I didn't mean steady in that he doesn't make many mistakes. But he does have a solid baseline game plan. He doesn't go into long Ferrer-like rallies, but plays a high-risk game and apparently it's good enough to get some breaks in here and there. Which is all that he needs to win the match if he wins all of his serve games.

PeteD
10-06-2012, 12:57 PM
You know what the problem is that I have with Raonic? I think he has a solid game and all, with the strong serve and steady baseline game. His serve will win him his service games. And his blunt and somewhat sluggish game is offensive enough to get a break in most sets and otherwise he can just play a tiebreak, which he also does well in because of his serve.

But I just don't see much room for improvement. I feel like.. this is it, you know? This is all we're going to see from him. He isn't going to suddenly change his technique and play like Federer or Djokovic, he will keep his clumsy technique and good serve. What is he going to improve? Serve harder? His movement might be improvable, but he will always keep moving uncomfortably because of his length. Same with Isner and Karlovic.

Nevertheless, he might get some Grand Slams here and there. If he keeps serving great throughout the tournament he might win it. And after the top 4 retires, he has time to win something big.

Watch a tape of the Tipsarevic match. Milos could improve by not dumping forehands into the middle of the net on putaway shots.

ruerooo
10-06-2012, 01:02 PM
Because they give tennis a wimpy image

Right.

Ferru is #5 in the world, and a co-owner of the Valencia 500, but he's 5'9", so he's a "wimp". Okay.

I see we're not doing "logic and reason" today.
:roll:

Russeljones
10-06-2012, 01:05 PM
Second, actually.

Well he should be proclaimed GOAT on the spot then.

ruerooo
10-06-2012, 01:07 PM
You know what the problem is that I have with Raonic? I think he has a solid game and all, with the strong serve and steady baseline game. His serve will win him his service games. And his blunt and somewhat sluggish game is offensive enough to get a break in most sets and otherwise he can just play a tiebreak, which he also does well in because of his serve.

But I just don't see much room for improvement. I feel like.. this is it, you know? This is all we're going to see from him. He isn't going to suddenly change his technique and play like Federer or Djokovic, he will keep his clumsy technique and good serve. What is he going to improve? Serve harder? His movement might be improvable, but he will always keep moving uncomfortably because of his length. Same with Isner and Karlovic.



See, I don't see this. Every year, I see him improve something.

As the comms commented on at IW, between last year and this when he was doing his hip rehab, he also took time to put on some muscle weight in order to reinforce strength around those gangly joints and improve movement.

And I saw his USO match against MAndy as well as their SF last night, so I felt like I was able to see differences if there were going to be any. The first thing I saw was that ruthless backhand -- that was a groundstroke that was almost completely absent here in New York. I'm actually a little startled he was able to improve that that quickly.

The other huge difference I've seen between then and now, made evident not only in his semi but through this tournament, was mental. I'm an amateur photog of sorts, and I have some shots of the frustration that was evident on his face in his match with MAndy here. In this tournament, it feels like we've seen the complete opposite -- we've seen him fight for the point, go to the net, not be afraid to use his entire arsenal of shots, not give up, not be intimidated, not beat himself.

I think just based on what we've seen coupled with how young he is, there's still vast room for further improvement.

kishnabe
10-06-2012, 01:13 PM
By the time he was the same age as Raonic is now ie. 21 years and 9 months, Murray had already won 10 titles including 2 Masters and a 500 and had just appeared in his first Slam final, beating the world #1 Nadal to get there!

No one said Raonic is more talented than Murray. Murray is aggresive and plays well during that time when it wasn't the slams.

When he got to the finals and a few semis....he played poor. Now he got the cahones in the bof5.

Now it Raonic turn to show some balls at the next HC slam.

mattennis
10-06-2012, 01:30 PM
I don't know if Raonic will ever win a Slam but I'm sure he'll get into the top-10 very soon.

I think he's heading the right path in his tennis game. He needs to be a bit quicker at the net but he is already a very good volleyer (by todays standard).

tistrapukcipeht
10-06-2012, 02:27 PM
Just becausey he beat LOLrray doesn't mean he is going to break through. Bogomolov and Young beat LOLrray too, are they about to break through?

Not that, but Murray had been breezing through the draw easily and Murray played well.

It's also that nobody else has the serve Raonic has, which can get the job done against any player, even against Djokovic and Murray the best returners.

Come on, dude, Bogomolov (who is He??) and Donald Young?? Since when they even belong a talk where great players belong, these 2 have nothing that Raonic has.

kaku
10-06-2012, 02:37 PM
Raonic will definitely win slams but it will be when the top 4 decline

tistrapukcipeht
10-06-2012, 02:41 PM
Key thing, he solved his biggest problem, passivity under pressure.
How many guys struggle with their issues year in and never adjust?

How long did it take Murray to get some cahones? Milos was a beast
and I can assure you the top 10 are quivvering in their Nikes.

He didn't rely on passive rallies waiting for the other guy to make a mistake,
and I hope he keeps that going. Whether he could do that consistantly
through 5 sets for two weeks is another story. I hope so. If he can,
then i can certainly contend.
Exactly, He goes for it and He decides the result.

Guy bets Murray in a 500 and we are talking slams again?

50% of the Raonic threads are about him winning slams, the other 50% compare him to Isner/Karlovic.

Raonic is so much better than his peers because he has a weapon already. His serve is one of the best ever. However, he might not develop a ground game around it. There's no way of knowing.

I saw him play in Newport this summer, lost very comfortably to Ben Becker. His slam results so far have not indicated anything special.
Serve is the only thing raonic has in common with the other 2, everything else Raonic is better, and soon he will be in the top 10, He is maturing and once He gets to the level that He is comfortable and still can beat guys outside top 4 easily, it will be scary.
You know what the problem is that I have with Raonic? I think he has a solid game and all, with the strong serve and steady baseline game. His serve will win him his service games. And his blunt and somewhat sluggish game is offensive enough to get a break in most sets and otherwise he can just play a tiebreak, which he also does well in because of his serve.

But I just don't see much room for improvement. I feel like.. this is it, you know? This is all we're going to see from him. He isn't going to suddenly change his technique and play like Federer or Djokovic, he will keep his clumsy technique and good serve. What is he going to improve? Serve harder? His movement might be improvable, but he will always keep moving uncomfortably because of his length. Same with Isner and Karlovic.

Nevertheless, he might get some Grand Slams here and there. If he keeps serving great throughout the tournament he might win it. And after the top 4 retires, he has time to win something big.

He can still move a lot better and more efficiently, his return right now is awful for the level He plays, backhand can be a lot better and the hard work and mental fortitude is there, so that equals winning.

I'm comparing him and his chances to other up and comer guys, all others have much less game than Raonic.

cc0509
10-06-2012, 02:45 PM
Raonic will definitely win slams but it will be when the top 4 decline

The top four have declined, or at least Federer and to a lesser extent Nadal have. We need a new young gun to break through already, it is time.

NadalAgassi
10-06-2012, 03:17 PM
It will be hard anytime soon since he would need to likely beat 3 of the top 4 in a row. The only one of the top 4 he has beaten at this point is Murray, and even he lost to easily when they met when it mattered in a slam. Still it would be nice to see. The first key is for him to get into the top 8 so he doesnt have that tough of matches until the quarters of a slam. Then go from there. Since he definitely isnt winning the Australian or French (is never winning the French of course, lol) he has until Wimbledon next year to do that, so plenty of time to take the first step to setting himself up.

Down_the_line
10-06-2012, 03:24 PM
No he isn't, because, according to romeo888, he's one of the top 5 mentally weakest players in history.

Seriously though, I hope he does break through. He needs to round out his game, though.

pound cat
10-06-2012, 03:33 PM
No he isn't, because, according to romeo888, he's one of the top 5 mentally weakest players in history.

Seriously though, I hope he does break through. He needs to round out his game, though.

Round out his game? Did you watch the Murray Tokyo semi?

The commentators talked about his speed on court, his net game. his brilliant bh, and his aggression. He could do no wrong. Wacth a couple of youtube highlights and see for yourself.

rofl_copter3
10-06-2012, 03:46 PM
Ferrer is more likely to win one that raonic... Honestly raonic will have the same problems Isner faces unless he learns to play some defense and increase his ground stroke consistancy

Clarky21
10-06-2012, 04:30 PM
If he's going to do it he's going to have to beat Fed and ****,and I just do not see that happening right now,especially when it comes to beating ****. He is also going to have to prove he can beat the top 3 in a slam,which is a lot more difficult to do than beating them in best of 3. Those guys are going to be his biggest obstacles. He has the ability to beat everyone else.

Sid_Vicious
10-06-2012, 04:39 PM
Tomic needs to get his head in the game. He is almost 2 years younger than Raonic yet he has managed to reach the QFs of a slam unlike Raonic. I was impressed at how nicely he was getting under Djokovic's skin during the 2011 Wimbledon QF, since then he has been mugging it up.

Smasher08
10-06-2012, 05:35 PM
If he's going to do it he's going to have to beat Fed and ****,and I just do not see that happening right now,especially when it comes to beating ****.

Um, has he even played Gumby yet? As for his h2h with Fed, it's nothing to be sneezed at when you consider the fact that he's been taking sets off of FedEx.

In any event, Gumby has declined half a notch from the player he was in 2011. Federer is deservedly the world #1, but hangs on to it by a whisker. Nadal's knees may never recover sufficiently to let him play like he did even just four months ago.

The Big 4 won't be around forever, and the Canadian Cannon sure seems to have a lot of upside.

dangalak
10-06-2012, 08:30 PM
Tomic needs to get his head in the game. He is almost 2 years younger than Raonic yet he has managed to reach the QFs of a slam unlike Raonic. I was impressed at how nicely he was getting under Djokovic's skin during the 2011 Wimbledon QF, since then he has been mugging it up.

Tomic has a strange style. He is a junkballer who is slow around the court. His forehand can create no spin, which is why Roddick was easily approaching that side with slice approaches.

His only chance to really break through would be to get a good serve and be super aggressive.

Tony48
10-06-2012, 09:16 PM
Beating Murray is an indication of absolutely nothing :)

Having said that, he's a great player who is consistently making a bigger name for himself, but he's still got more work to do before I consider him a slam contender.

winstonplum
10-06-2012, 10:49 PM
No one breaks through until they become spectacular movers like the top four. And Raonic has to shrink about three inches, because that extra height, while helping his serve, hurts his movement.

Rozroz
10-06-2012, 11:08 PM
judging by the final atm he's back to his old self.
no way he could survive 5 setters like that.

The Bawss
10-07-2012, 12:14 AM
I know Raonic and Nishikori aren't even in the same talent universe but still, Raonic shouldn't be in the process of eating a bagel is he "is about to break through".

syc23
10-07-2012, 12:15 AM
ON TODAY'S FINAL RESULT:

DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH!!!!

1,000,000 LOLs.

Rozroz
10-07-2012, 12:17 AM
I know Raonic and Nishikori aren't even in the same talent universe but still, Raonic shouldn't be in the process of eating a bagel is he "is about to break through".

agreed and approved!
well, at least he spanked the Muzz :twisted:

syc23
10-07-2012, 12:26 AM
agreed and approved!
well, at least he spanked the Muzz :twisted:

Murray didn't get spanked. He gave it away.

Slamray just wanted more time to prepare for Shanghai. The Scot's focus is on slams nowadays anyway. If the servebot plays Murray again in any slams, the result will be the same as the one at USO.

I can still taste the sweet taste of that bagel :)

tennis_pro
10-07-2012, 12:30 AM
Murray didn't get spanked. He gave it away.

Slamray just wanted more time to prepare for Shanghai. The Scot's focus is on slams nowadays anyway. If the servebot plays Murray again in any slams, the result will be the same as the one at USO.

I can still taste the sweet taste of that bagel :)

I think that Murray ups his level a notch in majors these days (just compare his results to the Masters) but Raonic's win yesterday was 100 % legit. I don't think a guy can give a match away and scream his lungs out in anguish after easy misses if he doesn't care. He wanted to win that match but Raonic just took it to him.

syc23
10-07-2012, 12:41 AM
I think that Murray ups his level a notch in majors these days (just compare his results to the Masters) but Raonic's win yesterday was 100 % legit. I don't think a guy can give a match away and scream his lungs out in anguish after easy misses if he doesn't care. He wanted to win that match but Raonic just took it to him.

The win is legit but he utterly fail to back it up the next match.

With Lendl around in slams, you'll see the same Andy back to how he was at USO. Plus, energy wouldn't be wasted playing doubles in slams so Raonic will not be so lucky facing a 100% Murray (with a sore back) next time.

*Sparkle*
10-07-2012, 12:51 AM
Raonic's previous two matches showed significant progress, but today's have shown that he's still got a way to go.

Murray did want to win yesterday, and he played well for a lot of it, but he wasn't super-focused, and he was the much more tired player, so the victory needs to be kept in context. Impressive, and a nice feather in his cap, but not the trumpet of a new dawn.

Today, Raonic was the more tired player, and he struggled. If he is to become a regular in the quarters, semis and finals of big competitions, he's going to be this tired a lot more often.

Nevertheless, none of his immediate peers are looking like obvious slam winners, and someone is going to have to win them. In a few years time, Federer will be retired, and possibly Nadal too, so it will be down to whether or not Djokovic and Murray can maintain their own levels and enthusiasm against the challengers.

Raonic is still in good stead to be the "next guy" to break through, but I think it will be another two or three years before he can become s a serious challenger.

batz
10-07-2012, 01:08 AM
Raonic's previous two matches showed significant progress, but today's have shown that he's still got a way to go.

Murray did want to win yesterday, and he played well for a lot of it, but he wasn't super-focused, and he was the much more tired player, so the victory needs to be kept in context. Impressive, and a nice feather in his cap, but not the trumpet of a new dawn.

Today, Raonic was the more tired player, and he struggled. If he is to become a regular in the quarters, semis and finals of big competitions, he's going to be this tired a lot more often.

Nevertheless, none of his immediate peers are looking like obvious slam winners, and someone is going to have to win them. In a few years time, Federer will be retired, and possibly Nadal too, so it will be down to whether or not Djokovic and Murray can maintain their own levels and enthusiasm against the challengers.

Raonic is still in good stead to be the "next guy" to break through, but I think it will be another two or three years before he can become s a serious challenger.

What a great post- agree 100% with your analysis.

batz
10-07-2012, 01:11 AM
The win is legit but he utterly fail to back it up the next match.

With Lendl around in slams, you'll see the same Andy back to how he was at USO. Plus, energy wouldn't be wasted playing doubles in slams so Raonic will not be so lucky facing a 100% Murray (with a sore back) next time.

Murray said yesterday that Mr Lendl will next make an appearance 'the week before the WTF'. I found it revealing that he used these words rather than saying he would be back for Paris.

Russeljones
10-07-2012, 01:31 AM
What was Murray tired from?

syc23
10-07-2012, 01:42 AM
Murray said yesterday that Mr Lendl will next make an appearance 'the week before the WTF'. I found it revealing that he used these words rather than saying he would be back for Paris.

I think he should skip Paris (e.g tank early) after Shanghai and focus on WTF. I know he's not played enough matches on the tour yet to be given the option to skip a Masters but he should focus on giving a real go at defending Shanghai then focus all of his efforts to make sure he doesn't burn out before London.

batz
10-07-2012, 01:46 AM
What was Murray tired from?

He was playing dubs this week - played until after 7pm on Friday night after playing Stan in the morning. Semi started at 1200 the next day. I dare say there is also some residual tiredness/general fatigue that all the guys who have played a lot of matches feel.

Not an excuse for losing though - big fella won fair and square. Same as Kei did today - but I'm pretty sure yesterday's events would have had some bearing on the outcome of the 3rd set today.

batz
10-07-2012, 01:52 AM
I think he should skip Paris (e.g tank early) after Shanghai and focus on WTF. I know he's not played enough matches on the tour yet to be given the option to skip a Masters but he should focus on giving a real go at defending Shanghai then focus all of his efforts to make sure he doesn't burn out before London.

Agree completely. I said a couple of weeks ago that you can expect Murray to have a 'back/fatigue problem' that will see him have to pull out of Paris after playing Basel.

Anyhoo - we seem to have hijacked a Milos thread. Apologies.

dangalak
10-07-2012, 01:56 AM
Raonic's previous two matches showed significant progress, but today's have shown that he's still got a way to go.

Murray did want to win yesterday, and he played well for a lot of it, but he wasn't super-focused, and he was the much more tired player, so the victory needs to be kept in context. Impressive, and a nice feather in his cap, but not the trumpet of a new dawn.

Today, Raonic was the more tired player, and he struggled. If he is to become a regular in the quarters, semis and finals of big competitions, he's going to be this tired a lot more often.

Nevertheless, none of his immediate peers are looking like obvious slam winners, and someone is going to have to win them. In a few years time, Federer will be retired, and possibly Nadal too, so it will be down to whether or not Djokovic and Murray can maintain their own levels and enthusiasm against the challengers.

Raonic is still in good stead to be the "next guy" to break through, but I think it will be another two or three years before he can become s a serious challenger.

Excuses. :lol:

Russeljones
10-07-2012, 02:28 AM
He was playing dubs this week - played until after 7pm on Friday night after playing Stan in the morning. Semi started at 1200 the next day. I dare say there is also some residual tiredness/general fatigue that all the guys who have played a lot of matches feel.

Not an excuse for losing though - big fella won fair and square. Same as Kei did today - but I'm pretty sure yesterday's events would have had some bearing on the outcome of the 3rd set today.

I thought that sucking outside the Slams during most of the year afforded Murray a lot of rest. But I'll take your point about the doubles, it's admirable that he's so engaged.

Fedex
10-07-2012, 02:33 AM
Murray had two match points against Raonic and still lost the match.
That stinks more of mental tiredness than anything else to me.
Murray's clutchiness of recent times wasn't there.

batz
10-07-2012, 02:41 AM
Murray had two match points against Raonic and still lost the match.
That stinks more of mental tiredness than anything else to me.
Murray's clutchiness of recent times wasn't there.

Yep. The BH UE on match point 2 was a bit of a head scratcher. Them's the breaks though - you can' win them all (unless it's 2011 and your name is Novak).

tennis_pro
10-07-2012, 02:47 AM
The win is legit but he utterly fail to back it up the next match.

With Lendl around in slams, you'll see the same Andy back to how he was at USO. Plus, energy wouldn't be wasted playing doubles in slams so Raonic will not be so lucky facing a 100% Murray (with a sore back) next time.

You sound very bitter. Maybe because it took it 6-3 6-7 7-6 to beat Murray (saving 2 match point as well as saving match points in the previous round) Raonic was drained mentally for his next match? How many times you see someone upset one of the top 4 and lose their next match? That's not utter fail. The definition of utter fail is when you lose 6-0 6-0 6-0 to Donald Young at the French Open, not when you go down to an on-fire Nishikori in the final of the Japan Open in 3 sets.

And not the excuses again. A sore back my a**. I've seen Murray hold his back numerous times after he loses a point (usually when he's getting owned like in the 2010 AO final). I guess that's natural for him to look for excuses.

dangalak
10-07-2012, 03:27 AM
Yep. The BH UE on match point 2 was a bit of a head scratcher. Them's the breaks though - you can' win them all (unless it's 2011 and your name is Novak).

:? Remember when he lost 2 tiebreaks to Federer in one match alone? :lol:

Unless this is some weird attempt to be cute.

Murray had two match points against Raonic and still lost the match.
That stinks more of mental tiredness than anything else to me.
Murray's clutchiness of recent times wasn't there.

He had 2 matchpoints on Raonic's serve.

How the hell is losing a point on Raonic's serve a sign of mental weakness.

Sometimes I wonder if the people here are thinking straight.

Zarfot Z
10-07-2012, 04:19 AM
Got beaten down by Nishikori today.

All hopes of RaoRao becoming a future GS champion dashed...

Evan77
10-07-2012, 06:27 AM
disappointed with Mugonic today and kudos to Kei. I said earlier, go easy on Milos with all of these GS predictions etc. meh. Raonic has no business losing to Kei ... just pathetic.

jrs
10-07-2012, 06:38 AM
A minor setback on the march to GS...beating Murray was a big achievement for him.

read he's planning to take serve returns earlier and come more to the net. These are good signs and the right step for his game IMHO!

Carsomyr
10-07-2012, 06:50 AM
disappointed with Mugonic today and kudos to Kei. I said earlier, go easy on Milos with all of these GS predictions etc. meh. Raonic has no business losing to Kei ... just pathetic.

:roll:

What shame is it losing to a talented player on his home turf?

Carsomyr
10-07-2012, 06:55 AM
Got beaten down by Nishikori today.

All hopes of RaoRao becoming a future GS champion dashed...

The GS fate of a 21 year old rests on the final of a 500 event?

The Bawss
10-07-2012, 06:56 AM
disappointed with Mugonic today and kudos to Kei. I said earlier, go easy on Milos with all of these GS predictions etc. meh. Raonic has no business losing to Kei ... just pathetic.

Well, Kei has won a 500 event. How many 500s has clownic won? How about slam QFs? Come on, the guy is 6ft5 of pure joke.

Russeljones
10-07-2012, 06:57 AM
The GS fate of a 21 year old rests on the final of a 500 event?

You're joking right? :)

President
10-07-2012, 07:21 AM
disappointed with Mugonic today and kudos to Kei. I said earlier, go easy on Milos with all of these GS predictions etc. meh. Raonic has no business losing to Kei ... just pathetic.

LOL Raonic has the serve but Nishikori is better in every other area of the game. Great return of serve and overall amazing baseline game. He should be top 10 pretty soon.

Marius_Hancu
10-07-2012, 07:26 AM
Murray didn't get spanked. He gave it away. Just like in Barcelona? Choking

sureshs
10-07-2012, 07:32 AM
Nishikori definitely the GOAT

tacou
10-07-2012, 07:49 AM
The GS fate of a 21 year old rests on the final of a 500 event?

it rested on a semi final win, why not a final loss?

*Sparkle*
10-07-2012, 08:27 AM
Excuses. :lol:
Not really. I wasn't explaining away why he didn't win today, as I think Kei won fair and square with excellent tennis.

It's more a case of trying to gauge where he is with his overall game and what's getting in his way. Today's score to me makes it look like he ran out of gas, and people are saying that's because of a couple of tough three-setters. If he is to progress, he can't be worn out by a couple of tough three-setters in a 500.

If he is to get the wins to be a regular in the top ten he'll be playing more matches, and tougher matches. Everyone was getting excited that he was moving around the court more than ever before, but with improved court coverage comes increased energy expenditure.

In that respect, his fitness/stamina may be the next thing he has to work on if he hopes to play to his potential when he makes it to his next final.

dangalak
10-07-2012, 08:35 AM
Not really. I wasn't explaining away why he didn't win today, as I think Kei won fair and square with excellent tennis.

It's more a case of trying to gauge where he is with his overall game and what's getting in his way. Today's score to me makes it look like he ran out of gas, and people are saying that's because of a couple of tough three-setters. If he is to progress, he can't be worn out by a couple of tough three-setters in a 500.

If he is to get the wins to be a regular in the top ten he'll be playing more matches, and tougher matches. Everyone was getting excited that he was moving around the court more than ever before, but with improved court coverage comes increased energy expenditure.

In that respect, his fitness/stamina may be the next thing he has to work on if he hopes to play to his potential when he makes it to his next final.

I watched the match, he simply missed too many BHs and Nishikori was returning his serve like a boss. Not to mention his backhand and his passing shots.

syc23
10-07-2012, 08:48 AM
Just like in Barcelona? Choking

64 64 62 USO baby :D

Murray won the important match between them this year. Anyway, Andy was playing with a dodgy back...on his worst surface.

What was Raonic's excuse when he was spanked in front of the world on AA?

Ellipses
10-07-2012, 09:35 AM
I'm not sure Raonic will ever be a slam winner, but what I am certain about is that he isn't a "joke" or a "doofus". The guy is 15th in the world and was in the final of a 500 event that went 3 sets. Maybe we're all spoiled by the likes of Nadal and Federer and Djokovic but that is quite an accomplishment.

I don't get why this needs to get personal and childish. "Mugonic", "Clownic", really? Are we back in the second grade here?

That said, kudos to Kei Nishikori. Great win in front of the home crowd. I only caught the first set but he looked good. He has a bright future as well.

kishnabe
10-07-2012, 09:41 AM
This is the next Murray will get destroyed thread.

Each time Milosh fails.....this will be necrofried.

Marius_Hancu
10-07-2012, 11:25 AM
What was Raonic's excuse when he was spanked in front of the world on AA?

He was a lord, went to Murray and congratulated him. And smiled.

Compare with the poor, poor show Murray did in their last match.

And remember: it's 2-1, and the last was won by Raonic. He's beating him on all surfaces. Showing him who's boss.

Fedex
10-07-2012, 11:31 AM
He was a lord, went to Murray and congratulated him. And smiled.

Raonic seems to be a very good sport.
Gracious in defeat from what I've seen.

Clarky21
10-07-2012, 11:52 AM
He was a lord, went to Murray and congratulated him. And smiled.

Compare with the poor, poor show Murray did in their last match.

And remember: it's 2-1, and the last was won by Raonic. He's beating him on all surfaces. Showing him who's boss.



When did Raonic beat Andy on grass?

Mainad
10-07-2012, 11:54 AM
And remember: it's 2-1, and the last was won by Raonic. He's beating him on all surfaces. Showing him who's boss.

He'll need to beat him at the really big events ie. Slams and Masters before he can stake a claim to being 'his boss'.

He deserved his win against Murray yesterday but it has to be said that Murray probably should have won it. It is highly unusual for him to squander a 4-1 lead in the final set of a match and then miss a fairly straightforward backhand return on the second match point.

Nevertheless, he has re-established himself as one of only 4 top players to have a positive H2H v Murray (the others being Nadal,Djokovic and Berdych) and the only lesser ranked player to do so along with Berdych. Kudos to him for that.

batz
10-07-2012, 11:59 AM
He'll need to beat him at the really big events ie. Slams and Masters before he can stake a claim to being 'his boss'.

He deserved his win against Murray yesterday but it has to be said that Murray probably should have won it. It is highly unusual for him to squander a 4-1 lead in the final set of a match and then miss a fairly straightforward backhand return on the second match point.

Nevertheless, he has re-established himself as one of only 4 top players to have a positive H2H v Murray (the others being Nadal,Djokovic and Berdych) and the only lesser ranked player to do so along with Berdych. Kudos to him for that.

I think Kohly is 'a top player' - he's certainly top 20. He also has a positive H2H with Murray.

cc0509
10-07-2012, 12:01 PM
He was a lord, went to Murray and congratulated him. And smiled.

Compare with the poor, poor show Murray did in their last match.

And remember: it's 2-1, and the last was won by Raonic. He's beating him on all surfaces. Showing him who's boss.

Let's not get carried away. I am a Raonic fan but he has a long way to go to be the boss of Murray. He will have to beat Murray in a slam for it to really mean a lot. With that said it was a great win over Murray but then he went and blew it and lost the match to Nishikori to win the tournament. Raonic's problem is he can get a big win or two but then he can't go the distance and beat the next top guy to win the tournament. He is going to have to change that pattern if he wants to really get somewhere.

Mainad
10-07-2012, 12:09 PM
I think Kohly is 'a top player' - he's certainly top 20. He also has a positive H2H with Murray.

Forgot about him. They only ever played the one match though didn't they?

batz
10-07-2012, 12:27 PM
Forgot about him. They only ever played the one match though didn't they?

Yes mate. Possibly his worst ever performance in a rogues gallery of post AO nightmares. Monte Carlo it was. Frenchies booed him off court he was so bad - would probably have booed him myself had I been there.

kaku
10-07-2012, 12:35 PM
Raonic is Murray's boss? Hardly, it's not like Raonic is beating him in straight sets constantly

tistrapukcipeht
10-07-2012, 05:04 PM
I'd say playing and beating Murray in a tough match is rather more important for any resume than losing to Nishikori (will never win a Slam) after a real battle.

I saw part of that final, Nishikori was reading Raonic's serve very well, but Nishikori can run as much as He wants, some people will just power through him, aka Querrey and top 4, wawrinka amongst others.

ruerooo
10-07-2012, 05:35 PM
The GS fate of a 21 year old rests on the final of a 500 event?

I know, right? I'm getting hyperbole fatigue from the swings of GREATEST EVAR to THROW HIM OUT OF THE ATP.

:roll:

Sid_Vicious
10-07-2012, 05:42 PM
I know, right? I'm getting hyperbole fatigue from the swings of GREATEST EVAR to THROW HIM OUT OF THE ATP.

:roll:

What issue do you have with people criticizing Raonic? You claim that you are regularly embarrassed that Tomic is a member of the ATP world tour. It seems that you are quite fond of hyberbole yourself. I mean it is not like an 18-19 year old tennis player has ever disappointed the tennis following masses before. I am sure a guy like Federer was always a classy gentlemen when he was a teenager on tour. :roll:

Paullaconte1
10-07-2012, 07:08 PM
Yes... I do not like his tennis, but he is young and so far he does not have many competitors of his age. When the top4 retire RAonic will have a clear path. Can't see any young genius around

tlm
10-07-2012, 07:13 PM
The unwarranted hype for this serving dork never stops on this site, sorry but he will never win a major.

RogerRacket111
10-08-2012, 11:19 AM
To reliant on the big serve. He lost 6-0 in the third set to Nishikori which tells me he has a ways to go. Might become an Isner once people figure it out. Needs to work on other parts of the game.

I hope he gets better. He reminds me of Boris back in the day. But its a different time now. People return and move much better.

PCXL-Fan
10-08-2012, 11:29 AM
I see Raonic reaching 8th or higher of at least a week or 2 in his career.

Yes I dont see him winning slams but he will reach at least GS 1 semifinal in his career. He's that unbelievably friggin good! He could beat a 5.0 player 6-0 6-0!

dangalak
10-08-2012, 02:43 PM
I'd say playing and beating Murray in a tough match is rather more important for any resume than losing to Nishikori (will never win a Slam) after a real battle.

I saw part of that final, Nishikori was reading Raonic's serve very well, but Nishikori can run as much as He wants, some people will just power through him, aka Querrey and top 4, wawrinka amongst others.

:lol: .