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maxpotapov
10-09-2012, 09:42 AM
I play without vibration dampener. This way I can get fuller acoustic feedback and I like to feel and hear all the vibrations of the frame and strings. To be clear, I'm talking about solid frames with good plowthrough, capable to respond with "good vibrations" to the good technique.

Playing without vibration dampener, it feels easier on my arm and safer too. Maybe it's because I'm more careful to hit the "center of percussion" and get that special "sonic boom" without unpleasant distortion, or maybe dampener simply stiffens stringbed a bit. Besides, in order to hear and feel the vibrations I must hold racquet very loose and have very relaxed/smooth swing. Otherwise, if I hold it too tight, then my hand works as a vibration dampener and I don't know what does more harm to my arm: those tiny vibrations or simply being stiff and muscling the ball and/or squeezing the handle to stabilize racquet on off-center hits.

The idea of vibration dampeners making racquets more arm friendly seems ridiculous to me, and not just because it does nothing to absorb shockwave. If energy is not dispersed in free oscillation of the strings, then where does it go? Arm is on the receiving end of all the "muted" vibrations, so I would prefer shockwave to be converted into vibrations of frame and strings, rather than be "comfortably" transferred into my arm.

And, by the way, I did not see any "dampener" technology of late that translated into health benefits. I mean, Amplifeel and Innegra are presented to enhance feel and/or "comfort", but they are not marketed as "arm friendly" in terms of less shock to the arm. Lightweight and strong composites can improve "stability" of the frame, but only extra mass can actually "absorb" the shock. Otherwise the energy from the impact needs to be converted/dispersed into vibrations. Good vibrations.

ollinger
10-09-2012, 10:15 AM
Like me, you probably play without socks. Otherwise, how can you have a sense of what's going on when your shoes hit the ground, to more finely hone your footwork?

ChicagoJack
10-09-2012, 04:39 PM
Hi Max,

Yeah cool, not sure what the point of your post is (it's reading like some sort of personal blog entry) but I'll dive right in. You clearly enjoy pondering racquets as much as I do. From this thread and your other posts I see that you are able to assimilate information found within the boards really well, but the trouble is, there is a lot bad information round these parts that you seem to have assimilated. I don't know where you have gotten the idea that squeezing the grip will minimize twisting on off center hits for example, but it simply ain't so. Center Of Percussion isn't a made up term deserving of quotations alongside "sonic boom". Only extra mass can absorb shock? Lightweight and strong can improve the stability of the frame? I've no idea where to begin to untangle those statements.

Somebody who ponders the subtleties of tennis racquets as deeply as you do, might consider investing in the Lindsey, Brody, and Cross book on racquet physics [1]. I think you'd find some good reading regarding string vibration, frame vibration, impact shock, and how to maximize frame stability. By the way, one of those three authors (cant remember which at the moment) is also the TW Professor, responsible for the creating all of the awesomeness found in the TW University. Once you have a firm grasp of the basics, much of this stuff you are publicly musing about will get really clear to you.

"The Physics and Technology of Tennis is one of those books that we've all been waiting for. Anyone who is working in tennis or racquet sports should own it. I am sure that it will be one of the first sources referenced in papers and books on the subject for years to come. I just have one problem now - how to rewrite my university sports engineering course so that I can use it as a text book. As a first year text - and possibly even later - it will be invaluable."

-Dr. Steve Haake,
University of Sheffield
ITF (International Tennis Federation) Chief Technical Consultant

[1]
The Physics And Technology Of Tennis
Crawford Lindsey, Rod Cross, Howard Brody
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/The_Physics_and_Technology_of_Tennis/descpage-PHYSICS.html

-Jack

maxpotapov
10-09-2012, 06:14 PM
Lightweight and strong can improve the stability of the frame?

I was referring to marketing materials, such as
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/ractechpage.html?PCODE=HYIGPM
And I can not understand how Innegra material or Basalt fibres etc can possibly help shock absorbtion.
As for other things, such as squeezing the handle on off-center hits or being stiff overall, this is to make a point, that bad technique (not watching the ball etc.) contributes so much more to arm problems, than any vibrations, especially those of strings. Problem with vibration dampeners is that they mask the problem, helping more uniform response from the stringbed but not helping me to fine tune my technique to save my arm from harm.

Also I mentioned good/stable racquet, which is not pushed around easily, to exclude what I would call "bad vibrations" from the consideration.
And before I order the book, I guess boards also provide good info sometimes, such as this:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=416761

robbo1970
10-10-2012, 02:01 AM
I think I understand your point here about vibration dampeners and I think this point has been covered before a few times.

The only impact the little dampeners seems to have is to take the pinging sound away and give a more dead feel/sound when you hit the ball. I cannot see how they can absorb or dampen any shock or vibration to much degree and that if you don't hit a shot quite right then a dampener won't help very much.

I personally do not use dampeners. By design they are restricting full movement and feel of a couple of the strings and this feels to me as if the sweet spot is being reduced in size. My sweet spot feels more open when I dont use a dampener. I also seem to get more feel when I hit the ball without a dampener.

Thats just my personal opinion though, many love to use dampeners and the majority of the people I play against use dampeners, but I do wonder if they realise what it actually does or doesnt do.

maxpotapov
10-10-2012, 02:35 AM
Thats just my personal opinion though, many love to use dampeners and the majority of the people I play against use dampeners, but I do wonder if they realise what it actually does or doesnt do.

Federer and Murray do not use dampeners, Djokovic and Nadal do. So yes it is down to personal preference, especially if you hit sweetspot 95% of the time and your 350+ sw racquet hits the ball like a ton of bricks.

But for a developing player such as myself I need all the feedback I can get from my racquet in order to develop sound technique. That's probably why many people prefer "raw feel" of previous iterations of racquets like Wilson 6.1 90, Head Prestige Mid etc. And I heard people complain how Amplifeel and Innegra models feel comfortably muted at first but cause arm problems in the long run.

robbo1970
10-10-2012, 04:44 AM
Yes, thats kind of my point. It is preference, as it is with all of these things. I don't use a dampener because I want the feel of my strings to be as pure as possible with nothing stuck in them and I want to know if I hit a bad shot so i can work on my technique, so I like the feedback, both positive and negative.

Ive also stopped using an overgrip now as my stock grip is great and when it wears out its cheap enough to replace, rather than testing loads of overgrips that never feel quite as good as the main grip and actually seem to dampen the feel as well.

I'm a big believer that a lot of rackets are made the way they are in stock form for a reason and tweaking them about is taking away the way they were designed to be used. Saying that, everyone is different and has an optimum set up that is not always there in any stock racket, I am just lucky that the Bio 300 suits me perfectly and the stock grip is just fine. Although I wish it was white lol.

ollinger
10-10-2012, 07:37 AM
Can't tell if you hit a bad shot if there's a dampener in the racquet???!!!

maxpotapov
10-10-2012, 08:02 AM
Can't tell if you hit a bad shot if there's a dampener in the racquet???!!!
You can tell a lot more about your shot if there is no dampener in the racquet. This way you receive not just tactile and visual feedback on mishits, but also acoustic. And the sweetspot sounds richer and feels more rewarding.

By the way, I came up with "sonic boom" analogy after I recently hit that special shot with my 360g Dunlop MW 200G, strung with Head Sonic Pro crosses and syn gut mains. It was something I've never heard before, loud and pure, almost whistling sound. I had to look around and double check that this sound came from the racquet (and no, the ball did not blow up). Now I wanna go back and find this resonance again.

robbo1970
10-10-2012, 08:58 AM
You can tell a lot more about your shot if there is no dampener in the racquet. This way you receive not just tactile and visual feedback on mishits, but also acoustic. And the sweetspot sounds richer and feels more rewarding.

By the way, I came up with "sonic boom" analogy after I recently hit that special shot with my 360g Dunlop MW 200G, strung with Head Sonic Pro crosses and syn gut mains. It was something I've never heard before, loud and pure, almost whistling sound. I had to look around and double check that this sound came from the racquet (and no, the ball did not blow up). Now I wanna go back and find this resonance again.

Yes, that was my answer to the question too. You know it with both, just feel it more without the dampener, well I do anyway.