PDA

View Full Version : Embarrassingly small crowds in Shanghai


Wuppy
10-09-2012, 07:53 PM
I understand that tournaments in China don't draw big crowds, but my god even when there are Chinese players playing there's like 3 people in the audience.

They have garish music, fog machines, spotlights, etc. to introduce the players... and then when the lights come on all you can see are seats.

So my question is: why did Rolex decide to sponsor this silly tournament? I know that Rolex is targeting Asian countries these days, especially China, but this seems like nothing but a big hole to throw Rolex's money down. :confused:

Bartelby
10-09-2012, 08:03 PM
Television is what counts for sponsors, but its not good for tv audiences to have empty stadia.

It does show that there's no real live audience for tennis at either the prices or times that prevail in China.

Zildite
10-09-2012, 08:15 PM
Television is what counts for sponsors, but its not good for tv audiences to have empty stadia.

It does show that there's no real live audience for tennis at either the prices or times that prevail in China.

Beijing is a lot better (relatively speaking) - http://tenniseastcoast.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/beijing-open-1.jpg
Shanghai is beyond a joke, especially for a masters tournament.
China is quite good at doing 'empty' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19049254

jerriy
10-09-2012, 08:49 PM
Watch the show courts fill up as the round progresses. The Chinese crowd isn't that much interested in 1st round matches. They wanna see stars, not scrubs. They will show up in the coming days.

Last week in Beijing even the women's matches were well attended at the later stages (that was NOT the case at even Wimbledon centre court:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7RRnliLXg-g/UDGIcLQ7tiI/AAAAAAAAHUQ/jQ_WXlYv68g/s640/olympics-SF-empty-centre-court.png

Bartelby
10-09-2012, 08:55 PM
If crowds are low for early matches then massive price reductions may be useful, but you wonder whether the authorities actually care about either making money or entertaining crowds.

Bartelby
10-09-2012, 08:57 PM
Too much money chasing too few investment opportunities.

All backed up by authorities pushing money on favoured insiders.

Time for a little socialism in China by allowing the badly housed to occupy empty apartments.



Beijing is a lot better (relatively speaking) - http://tenniseastcoast.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/beijing-open-1.jpg
Shanghai is beyond a joke, especially for a masters tournament.
China is quite good at doing 'empty' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19049254

svijk
10-09-2012, 09:10 PM
yes, attendance is pretty pathetic for a Masters event. I think the main reason is;even though Shanghai is one of the biggest cities in the world, majority of the people are poor. Attending tennis events in China could be considered an indulgence. Tennis , i think there, is a still a rich man's sport to play, watch and attend

Evan77
10-09-2012, 09:14 PM
Beijing actually looked really good this year. I was pleasantly surprised. djoko's matches were pretty much full.

Shanghai is behind, not sure why but I think once you get past first few rounds it should get better. It will still take some time till Chinese people warm up to tennis. I'm hoping that we'll be able to meet more Asian tennis players in general, but it seems to be so hard for them to break through. Such a huge country should be producing good players left and right. Freaking Serbia is producing #1, top 10 players on both the ATP and the WTA side, and they have like what 8,5 millions people there. I was disappointed with Shanghai tournament attendance last couple of years. I wish some of our tennis friends from China can give us some input. Are tickets too expensive?

Again, I prefer Beijing and think that organizers there did really a wonderful job there last few years.

Zildite
10-09-2012, 09:31 PM
Finals attendence is good at least (2010) - http://imgur.com/a/LODYS#0

Keep in mind that both Shanghai and Beijing’s stadiums have the joint fourth largest capacities in the world (both at 15,000, same as Wimbledon centre court) so you could excuse them for not being totally packed.
If they can afford finals tickets, they should be able to afford earlier rounds so it might be something else keeping them away.

jokinla
10-09-2012, 10:27 PM
Always a joke, has to be the worst attended Masters, they should play somewhere that fans will actually attend.

Shangri La
10-09-2012, 10:39 PM
This is after an 8-day 'golden week' holiday. Nobody is going to take time off from work and watch live tennis. As always, come SF/final time, especially when Fed is playing, the stadium will be PACKED.

Russeljones
10-09-2012, 10:56 PM
They are all paid to stand outside Japanese shops and factories.

Shangri La
10-09-2012, 11:04 PM
yes, attendance is pretty pathetic for a Masters event. I think the main reason is;even though Shanghai is one of the biggest cities in the world, majority of the people are poor. Attending tennis events in China could be considered an indulgence. Tennis , i think there, is a still a rich man's sport to play, watch and attend

Yeah that explains why the stadium is packed every year in the final - because final tickets are the cheapest.

syke
10-09-2012, 11:32 PM
Tennis simply isn't popular compared to basketball or badminton.
It's just like making Americans watch a cricket test match or Europeans watch American football.

syke
10-09-2012, 11:34 PM
They are all paid to stand outside Japanese shops and factories.

Same goes for those Greenpeace folks

Bartelby
10-09-2012, 11:37 PM
Yes, they shanghaied the crowds from the tennis stadium.



They are all paid to stand outside Japanese shops and factories.

Gorecki
10-10-2012, 12:39 AM
now my answer to OP if i was political correctness wacko like TROUBLEMAKER or Fart Le Bi would be : Now that is severely Racist, calling the chinese small....

Bartelby
10-10-2012, 01:07 AM
yes, you're just plain wacko.

Bartelby
10-10-2012, 01:17 AM
I looked up the word 'shanghai', by the way, and discovered that the practice of 'crimping' or 'pressganging' civilians into the merchant marine was standard practice in America for over one hundred years.

And of course once aboard a ship the law penalized desertion harshly.

The Bawss
10-10-2012, 03:37 AM
Crickets! Crickets everywhere!

Zarfot Z
10-10-2012, 03:43 AM
Solution: Make Halle a Masters and Shanghai a 250 tournament.

The Bawss
10-10-2012, 03:54 AM
Solution: Make Halle a Masters and Shanghai a 250 tournament.

Or Queens, or Basel or Dubai. There are so many non-masters that are better all around tournaments than Shanghai.

dominikk1985
10-10-2012, 04:00 AM
this is because people in asia don't care for tennis. the ATP/WTA are artificially trying to boost tennis there because of the "big market" just like soccer tries in the US or american football tried in europe.

but usually this doesn't really work people like to stay with their inherent sports.

Zarfot Z
10-10-2012, 04:32 AM
Or Queens, or Basel or Dubai. There are so many non-masters that are better all around tournaments than Shanghai.

Dubai should usurp Shanghai as a Masters. Basel is a 250, but everyone knows it is at least the equivalent of a 500 or above.

The Bawss
10-10-2012, 04:37 AM
Dubai should usurp Shanghai as a Masters. Basel is a 250, but everyone knows it is at least the equivalent of a 500 or above.

Basel is a 500.

tusharlovesrafa
10-10-2012, 05:07 AM
Tennis simply isn't popular compared to basketball or badminton.
It's just like making Americans watch a cricket test match or Europeans watch American football.

You American,right? An American knowing about Cricket test match is an achievement in itself..:D

Mainad
10-10-2012, 05:19 AM
Always a joke, has to be the worst attended Masters, they should play somewhere that fans will actually attend.

The players seem to like it though. They regularly vote it their favourite Masters tournament! :)

augustobt
10-10-2012, 05:24 AM
Honestly, is that a surprise for you?

I never saw those courts filled in Shangai.

jones101
10-10-2012, 05:24 AM
This is the fullest I seen it.

I guess it the 'Fed Effect' :)

DRII
10-10-2012, 05:58 AM
Too much money chasing too few investment opportunities.

All backed up by authorities pushing money on favoured insiders.

Time for a little socialism in China by allowing the badly housed to occupy empty apartments.


So China is not communist afterall...

Bartelby
10-10-2012, 06:03 AM
If you define communism as giving free money to political insiders and confiscating the land of peasants to give to property speculators communism then the whole world is defineable as such.



So China is not communist afterall...

MasturB
10-10-2012, 06:22 AM
this is because people in asia don't care for tennis. the ATP/WTA are artificially trying to boost tennis there because of the "big market" just like soccer tries in the US or american football tried in europe.

but usually this doesn't really work people like to stay with their inherent sports.

Except that soccer actually is booming in the US.

MLS is expanding, the Seattle vs. Portland game had over 60k in attendance.

ESPN actually shows La Liga, EPL matches and Fox is showing UEFA and EPL matches as well.

Thanks to the World Cup in 2006 and 2010, soccer is really really picking up in this country.

RF20Lennon
10-10-2012, 07:39 AM
I get the feeling tickets are too expensive

JMR
10-10-2012, 07:41 AM
Watch the show courts fill up as the round progresses. The Chinese crowd isn't that much interested in 1st round matches. They wanna see stars, not scrubs. They will show up in the coming days.

Last week in Beijing even the women's matches were well attended at the later stages (that was NOT the case at even Wimbledon centre court:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7RRnliLXg-g/UDGIcLQ7tiI/AAAAAAAAHUQ/jQ_WXlYv68g/s640/olympics-SF-empty-centre-court.png

That match is taking place at Wimbledon, but it's the Olympic tournament, not the Championships.

sunof tennis
10-10-2012, 07:49 AM
Dubai should usurp Shanghai as a Masters. Basel is a 250, but everyone knows it is at least the equivalent of a 500 or above.

Nobody cares about Dubai

sunof tennis
10-10-2012, 07:51 AM
That match is taking place at Wimbledon, but it's the Olympic tournament, not the Championships.

Yes, look at the player on the right side of the picture. Clearly not wearing Wimbledon white.

JMR
10-10-2012, 08:08 AM
Yes, look at the player on the right side of the picture. Clearly not wearing Wimbledon white.

True, but I was referring to the purple Olympic bunting with the Olympic rings. :wink:

No1e
10-10-2012, 08:13 AM
I think it will only get "crowded" when two of the big 4 play each other.

jokinla
10-10-2012, 08:48 AM
The players seem to like it though. They regularly vote it their favourite Masters tournament! :)

How many Masters series have I heard that about from the players, hint, more than a few.

jokinla
10-10-2012, 08:48 AM
Solution: Make Halle a Masters and Shanghai a 250 tournament.

Halle or Queens definitely.

Mainad
10-10-2012, 09:18 AM
How many Masters series have I heard that about from the players, hint, more than a few.

But in Shanghai's case, it's official. :)

2011:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2012/02/Features/Shanghai-Dubai-Bastad-Tournaments-Of-Year.aspx

2010:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2011/02/Other/2010-Tournaments-Of-The-Year-Named.aspx

PCXL-Fan
10-10-2012, 09:42 AM
I'd think Hong Kong would likely attract a full stadium every time. Given its history and its heavily western slanted culture. The exposure in the past to western media would likely mean they had tennis exposure for many years, and wikipedia says people there have western tastes. The business culture would mean there would be many with the money to attend the event.

Mustard
10-10-2012, 11:18 AM
We had this conversation a year ago, and 2 years ago. It really annoys me that Hamburg was downgraded for this.

Evan77
10-10-2012, 11:33 AM
We had this conversation a year ago, and 2 years ago. It really annoys me that Hamburg was downgraded for this.
It's all about politics. China is a super power nowadays and they have more than enough money to throw away. It is what it is. I prefer Beijing (being only 500) more than Shanghai, and Shanghai is the worst master. not sure why.

I miss Hamburg. it was so well organized. fantastic tournament. the crowd was there, full stands, great atmosphere etc.

syke
10-10-2012, 12:25 PM
I'd think Hong Kong would likely attract a full stadium every time. Given its history and its heavily western slanted culture. The exposure in the past to western media would likely mean they had tennis exposure for many years, and wikipedia says people there have western tastes. The business culture would mean there would be many with the money to attend the event.

Trust me, Hong Kong's Center Court in Victoria Park is pathetic.
It's too small even for a 250 event.

There was talk about bringing in a WTA event, but that would mean building bigger seating galleries.

BTW, China doesn't recognise Hong Kong as "their" city. It's always Shanghai, Beijing or any other mainland city over Hong Kong.

The Bawss
10-10-2012, 12:49 PM
It's all about politics. China is a super power nowadays and they have more than enough money to throw away. It is what it is. I prefer Beijing (being only 500) more than Shanghai, and Shanghai is the worst master. not sure why.

I miss Hamburg. it was so well organized. fantastic tournament. the crowd was there, full stands, great atmosphere etc.

Not to mention Fed used to own that tournament. He even bagelled Nads there if I recall correctly.

TennisLovaLova
10-10-2012, 01:32 PM
Not to mention Fed used to own that tournament. He even bagelled Nads there if I recall correctly.

He also played a great match vs kuerten there
(Sureshs is gonna pretend kuerten was injured...)

Mustard
10-10-2012, 01:35 PM
Not to mention Fed used to own that tournament. He even bagelled Nads there if I recall correctly.

Federer beat Nadal 2-6, 6-2, 6-0 in the 2007 Hamburg final, which was Nadal's first loss on clay in over 2 years. Nadal got his revenge the following year, beating Federer 7-5, 6-7, 6-3 in the 2008 Hamburg final.

Mustard
10-10-2012, 01:38 PM
He also played a great match vs kuerten there
(Sureshs is gonna pretend kuerten was injured...)

Kuerten had hip surgery in February 2002. Make of that what you will.

gavna
10-10-2012, 01:43 PM
But in Shanghai's case, it's official. :)

2011:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2012/02/Features/Shanghai-Dubai-Bastad-Tournaments-Of-Year.aspx

2010:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2011/02/Other/2010-Tournaments-Of-The-Year-Named.aspx

Means NOTHING........players vote based on how much bum kissing they get and freebies and how well the event keep the masses away from them as they move around the grounds and to/from the prctice courts. Shanghai does a great job bending over to the players and the players love it.
Counter that with Wimbledon which views itself as special (which it is) and in many ways does not bow down to players and is viewed by many many players as an event they don't love.

rufus_smith
10-10-2012, 01:49 PM
Maybe they should tell the citizens that it's a major table tennis tourney on a really big table.

forzamilan90
10-10-2012, 01:53 PM
Except that soccer actually is booming in the US.

MLS is expanding, the Seattle vs. Portland game had over 60k in attendance.

ESPN actually shows La Liga, EPL matches and Fox is showing UEFA and EPL matches as well.

Thanks to the World Cup in 2006 and 2010, soccer is really really picking up in this country.

Serie A or nothing baby

ciocc
10-10-2012, 02:17 PM
BTW, China doesn't recognise Hong Kong as "their" city. It's always Shanghai, Beijing or any other mainland city over Hong Kong.

Actually, it's the other way around. People from Hong Kong don't want HK to be part of China. Sad.

Ico
10-10-2012, 02:34 PM
Just saw highlights of the Fed match on YouTube. The rest of the tournament may get pretty sad sometimes, but there was a huge crowd to see the night session. Tennis is still growing in China, but I'd say the attendance is just fine when the stars come out to play.

Darkmoon
10-10-2012, 05:40 PM
This is an interesting topic. I am a local Chinese staying in Shanghai. Yes, I have to say it is a small crowd of audience for this master tournament. I got the same feeling as I watch TV.

But I don't think ticket price is an issue. With only RMB160, you get to enter all the courts including the center one, without limits for entry. A lot of people earn more than RMB5000 a month by doing normal office work. Anyone reckons the ticket expensive?

The major problem should be the location. The stadium is crazily far away from the downtown. You have to drive 1 hour or even longer to just arrive at the stadium. People just took a whole week National Day Holiday for last week, and just got back to work since this Mon. Not many people got the energy to drive far away fighting through all the terrible traffic to watch the match. Isn't it more relaxed to just stay home and watch TV?

Btw, I did go to the stadium to watch the 1st day match last Sun, when it was still the holiday. I guess you will see much bigger crowd in late this week when the tournament goes to semifinals.

Prisoner of Birth
10-10-2012, 05:43 PM
Kuerten had hip surgery in February 2002. Make of that what you will.

Surgeries cause injuries? :|

15_ounce
10-10-2012, 07:36 PM
UrWatch the show courts fill up as the round progresses. The Chinese crowd isn't that much interested in 1st round matches. They wanna see stars, not scrubs. They will show up in the coming days.

Last week in Beijing even the women's matches were well attended at the later stages (that was NOT the case at even Wimbledon centre court:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7RRnliLXg-g/UDGIcLQ7tiI/AAAAAAAAHUQ/jQ_WXlYv68g/s640/olympics-SF-empty-centre-court.png

That's Olympics, not Wimbledon tournament.

norbac
10-10-2012, 07:44 PM
Surgeries cause injuries? :|

Hip surgery obviously impeded Kuerten's movement and he never reached the same level of tennis as he had before the surgery.

syke
10-10-2012, 09:22 PM
You American,right? An American knowing about Cricket test match is an achievement in itself..:D

No. I come from a place where Ricky Ponting and Shane Warne were made famous.

I only watch cricket when there is absolutely nothing on the tele.

syke
10-10-2012, 09:28 PM
Actually, it's the other way around. People from Hong Kong don't want HK to be part of China. Sad.

It's funny seeing so many British colonial Hong Kong flags during the occasional street protests. A real slap in the face for the Chinese communist party.

Maybe HK shouldn't have been returned to the Chinese. Independence could possibly be a better option.

Blame it on the pommies..

Shangri La
10-10-2012, 11:48 PM
This is an interesting topic. I am a local Chinese staying in Shanghai. Yes, I have to say it is a small crowd of audience for this master tournament. I got the same feeling as I watch TV.

But I don't think ticket price is an issue. With only RMB160, you get to enter all the courts including the center one, without limits for entry. A lot of people earn more than RMB5000 a month by doing normal office work. Anyone reckons the ticket expensive?

The major problem should be the location. The stadium is crazily far away from the downtown. You have to drive 1 hour or even longer to just arrive at the stadium. People just took a whole week National Day Holiday for last week, and just got back to work since this Mon. Not many people got the energy to drive far away fighting through all the terrible traffic to watch the match. Isn't it more relaxed to just stay home and watch TV?

Btw, I did go to the stadium to watch the 1st day match last Sun, when it was still the holiday. I guess you will see much bigger crowd in late this week when the tournament goes to semifinals.

Thanks for the comments with firsthand info and real substances, something this thread needs badly. Really appreciate it. Too bad timing of the Masters (and previously the Masters Cup) doesnt work with my annual vacation time in Shanghai. Otherwise I'd love to spend a week at the stadium and enjoy some world-class tennis. That and Formula 1 Shanghai!

Darkmoon
10-11-2012, 01:02 AM
Thanks for the comments with firsthand info and real substances, something this thread needs badly. Really appreciate it. Too bad timing of the Masters (and previously the Masters Cup) doesnt work with my annual vacation time in Shanghai. Otherwise I'd love to spend a week at the stadium and enjoy some world-class tennis. That and Formula 1 Shanghai!
Yes, China Open in Beijing took advantage of timing as it was within the 8 day holiday. F1, as I remember is on weekend. Have been there once, not a big fan of that.

Darkmoon
10-11-2012, 01:06 AM
It's funny seeing so many British colonial Hong Kong flags during the occasional street protests. A real slap in the face for the Chinese communist party.

Maybe HK shouldn't have been returned to the Chinese. Independence could possibly be a better option.

Blame it on the pommies..
HK is never getting back to what it was before 1997. No doubt of it. China is taking down HK from every angle.

Carsomyr
10-11-2012, 01:09 AM
This is an interesting topic. I am a local Chinese staying in Shanghai. Yes, I have to say it is a small crowd of audience for this master tournament. I got the same feeling as I watch TV.

But I don't think ticket price is an issue. With only RMB160, you get to enter all the courts including the center one, without limits for entry. A lot of people earn more than RMB5000 a month by doing normal office work. Anyone reckons the ticket expensive?

The major problem should be the location. The stadium is crazily far away from the downtown. You have to drive 1 hour or even longer to just arrive at the stadium. People just took a whole week National Day Holiday for last week, and just got back to work since this Mon. Not many people got the energy to drive far away fighting through all the terrible traffic to watch the match. Isn't it more relaxed to just stay home and watch TV?

Btw, I did go to the stadium to watch the 1st day match last Sun, when it was still the holiday. I guess you will see much bigger crowd in late this week when the tournament goes to semifinals.

Yes, someone else suggested something similar last year.

syke
10-11-2012, 06:07 AM
HK is never getting back to what it was before 1997. No doubt of it. China is taking down HK from every angle.

Too aggressive on your parting shot... this is exactly what the HKers deplore.

citybert
10-11-2012, 06:36 AM
What is all this talk of the 12 Million junior players in China with many being in the Top 10 in 10 years. Is this real or is this like the US's project 2010(back in 1998 ) where they would win the World Cup in 2010.

Manaldo
10-11-2012, 07:18 AM
Most people love STARs more than games. See the game and training of Fed, Murray and Djoko, tonight's roger vs. Stan game, certer court is all packed. We have enough audience loving tennis and stars.
The traffic and timing are reasons too, no subway going there I remember, at least last year, if you drive there, you may have to walk a mile from the parking area to the stadium because there are ALL cars.
And how can you ask your boss for extra holiday after 8 national holidays?

TMF
10-11-2012, 11:03 AM
The night session(prime time) isn't that bad. I saw Fed/Wawrinka's match and there's respectable numbers and they were noises. Unlike last year it was so many empty seat and dead silence.

Hopefully attendance will continue to grow over the year.