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wy2sl0
10-17-2012, 07:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRqQ78RE49g

lol ridiculous half-volleys with pace in 25 mph winds.

Despite the bad record, Fed played better than he ever has against Nadal. Doing everything Djokovic did to exploit him; hit the ball on the rise, hit it deep, and give Rafa his own medicine (exploit the backhand weakness)

Why did it take him 8 years to figure this out? I hope he watches tape back before AO 2013.

InspectorRacquet
10-17-2012, 08:12 PM
Even score-wise, I think their round robin match at the World Tour Finals in 2011 was the better match. Although Nadal wasn't doing great, Federer was, and that showed in the score.

As far as giving Nadal a taste of his own medicine - I think Federer eventually realized it's not a cheap tactic if your opponent does the same thing.

フェデラー
10-17-2012, 08:15 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRqQ78RE49g

lol ridiculous half-volleys with pace in 25 mph winds.

Despite the bad record, Fed played better than he ever has against Nadal. Doing everything Djokovic did to exploit him; hit the ball on the rise, hit it deep, and give Rafa his own medicine (exploit the backhand weakness)

Why did it take him 8 years to figure this out? I hope he watches tape back before AO 2013.

God mode was 2005 miami final I still have no idea how he managed to pull that off. I actually was a huge rafa fan at the time (still kind of am, just to a lesser degree), and I took a nap thinking, oh rafa is obviously going to win, and when I woke up i saw Roger won, and was thoroughly shocked.

10is
10-17-2012, 08:18 PM
I think their 2006 TMC encounter is the best either of them has played against each other on hard court. I personally think Nadal was a far more formidable hard court player in 2005 and 2006 despite not having won a hard court major at the time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vREl8AErhbA

Their 2007 match wasn't too shabby either:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR7do5BFgzA

wy2sl0
10-18-2012, 04:57 AM
I think their 2006 TMC encounter is the best either of them has played against each other on hard court. I personally think Nadal was a far more formidable hard court player in 2005 and 2006 despite not having won a hard court major at the time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vREl8AErhbA

Their 2007 match wasn't too shabby either:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR7do5BFgzA

Hot damn that 06 match was epic. Nadal standing inside or on the baseline alot of the time, nice to see.

Mike Sams
10-18-2012, 09:19 AM
Federer can't beat Nadal over 5 sets as long as he has that 1 handed backhand. He doesn't have the physical power with 1 hand to drive the ball deep the way Djokovic can. You need 2 hands on the racquet.

underground
10-18-2012, 10:42 AM
WTF 2011 was definitely a better match for Fed. Not only the scoreline, in WTF he only produced 8 UEs as opposed to 20+ in IW.'

Notice how Fed now constantly uses heave top spin towards Rafa's BH, sort of like looping it and kicking it off the court. However he hits it dead flat to Rafa's FH. It sort of matches Fed's playing style, i.e. flat inside-outs and heavy top-spin inside-ins. Rafa likes to push insane angles with the BH so he probably couldn't do that easily with the topspin. And plus it's harder for him to moonball when the ball's coming dead fast down to your FH.

Rozroz
10-18-2012, 10:49 AM
but wasn't the 2011 WTF the time when most top players came exhausted and Fed had an easeir task? especially vs Nadal.

Homeboy Hotel
10-18-2012, 11:01 AM
Roger beating Rafa at Windrian Wells!

What went wrong a couple weeks before at the Grand Slam - Australian Open?

namelessone
10-18-2012, 11:46 AM
I think their 2006 TMC encounter is the best either of them has played against each other on hard court. I personally think Nadal was a far more formidable hard court player in 2005 and 2006 despite not having won a hard court major at the time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vREl8AErhbA

Their 2007 match wasn't too shabby either:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR7do5BFgzA

LOL.

How?

Ok, so he was a bit more aggressive with the forehand and he was faster(this being six-seven years ago) but he went out earlier in hc events with far more regularity than say, after 2008-2009. Nadal didn't even make a AO or USO SF until 2008.

namelessone
10-18-2012, 11:52 AM
WTF 2011 was definitely a better match for Fed. Not only the scoreline, in WTF he only produced 8 UEs as opposed to 20+ in IW.'

Notice how Fed now constantly uses heave top spin towards Rafa's BH, sort of like looping it and kicking it off the court. However he hits it dead flat to Rafa's FH. It sort of matches Fed's playing style, i.e. flat inside-outs and heavy top-spin inside-ins. Rafa likes to push insane angles with the BH so he probably couldn't do that easily with the topspin. And plus it's harder for him to moonball when the ball's coming dead fast down to your FH.

True and I think it's because Fed or his camp saw that Nadal's BH has become increasingly vulnerable. It hasn't been a weapon for Nadal since say, late 2010. He seems to arrive late many times on that side and simply pushes the ball back instead of pounding it(at times) like he did in the past. Also, I noticed that in their 2012 matches(but not only) Federer didn't get passed as often when attacking Nadal on his BH side like in the past even though he still ate some FH passers.

The reason why Nadal was so tough a couple of years ago is that he could pass with regularity from both sides.

Clarky21
10-18-2012, 11:56 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRqQ78RE49g

lol ridiculous half-volleys with pace in 25 mph winds.

Despite the bad record, Fed played better than he ever has against Nadal. Doing everything Djokovic did to exploit him; hit the ball on the rise, hit it deep, and give Rafa his own medicine (exploit the backhand weakness)

Why did it take him 8 years to figure this out? I hope he watches tape back before AO 2013.


I swear it's like some of you people just started watching tennis yesterday. People have ALWAYS gone after Nadal's backhand. Always. ******* did not discover a thing that Nalby and Davy didn't figure out years ago.

And I highly doubt a player as good as Fed would take 8 years to figure out to hit to Nadal's backhand. That is just sheer lunacy.

namelessone
10-18-2012, 12:03 PM
Roger beating Rafa at Windrian Wells!

What went wrong a couple weeks before at the Grand Slam - Australian Open?

Nadal started playing a bit better and Federer's level went down after a fairly good first set. In a 2 out of 3 if helps that Fed's serving is good and that he can capitalize on a period where his play is solid and Rafa's is not. Not to mention that Nadal is a notorious slow starter, pun intended.

I think Rafa himself has said in the past that he feels more vulnerable in 2 out of 3 because between top players(but not only) it hinges on a couple of points whereas in slams you can get settled in after losing the first set and work your way up from there. There's far less breathing space in a 2 out of 3. Federer has beaten Nadal on clay, nevermind HC, in Hamburg,Madrid, even bageled him one time, but has never managed to beat him in RG.

namelessone
10-18-2012, 12:11 PM
And I highly doubt a player as good as Fed would take 8 years to figure out to hit to Nadal's backhand. That is just sheer lunacy.

The funny bit is that some people actually believe this. :)

I understand maybe being stubborn(as most top players are) with tactics against a fellow players for 1-2 years but 8? Come on.

Clarky21
10-18-2012, 12:17 PM
The funny bit is that some people actually believe this. :)

I understand maybe being stubborn(as most top players are) with tactics against a fellow players for 1-2 years but 8? Come on.



I know. What they don't realize is they are actually dissing their own fav when they make stupid statements like that. I believe it's just a way to excuse away the H2H between them. At least I hope it is,because Fed deserves far more credit than that.

underground
10-18-2012, 12:19 PM
True and I think it's because Fed or his camp saw that Nadal's BH has become increasingly vulnerable. It hasn't been a weapon for Nadal since say, late 2010. He seems to arrive late many times on that side and simply pushes the ball back instead of pounding it(at times) like he did in the past. Also, I noticed that in their 2012 matches(but not only) Federer didn't get passed as often when attacking Nadal on his BH side like in the past even though he still ate some FH passers.

The reason why Nadal was so tough a couple of years ago is that he could pass with regularity from both sides.

Yes his backhand does seem to get weaker now. I think Rafa does really hate flat balls to his FH, see the Rosol match, when he want huge to the Rafa FH he had no answer.

Clarky21
10-18-2012, 12:23 PM
I seriously cannot wait for Nadal to play Rosol again and beat him. Then maybe these silly Rosol comments will finally taper off.

wy2sl0
10-18-2012, 03:37 PM
I swear it's like some of you people just started watching tennis yesterday. People have ALWAYS gone after Nadal's backhand. Always. ******* did not discover a thing that Nalby and Davy didn't figure out years ago.

And I highly doubt a player as good as Fed would take 8 years to figure out to hit to Nadal's backhand. That is just sheer lunacy.

I don't understand why you would make that comment. I clearly said Federer, not anyone else.

I know you think what you think, but watching the matches tells a different story. Federer has NEVER abused Rafa's backhand as much as Rafa does his. Federer hits the ball all over the court, whereas even shotspot during their matches shows like 80% of the balls end up to Rogers backhand.

I am not calling him ********, or unable to adapt - I just think with an 18-10 record maybe he should watch back some tape and switch it up. Who else has beaten Rafa on all 3 surfaces in the same year? (Djokovic, a few others maybe?) It isn't like he isn't good enough to win. Almost all of their matches are close.

Towser83
10-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Roger beating Rafa at Windrian Wells!

What went wrong a couple weeks before at the Grand Slam - Australian Open?

Nadal got to him again and Roger didn't have the stamina(mental more than physical) maybe if he took the 3rd set tiebreak it might have been different. But I remember Federer dominating Nadal in the first set til Nadal hit a couple of good shots and got Fed in trouble on serve, then Fed hit the panic button, started playing the wrong shot, coming in off a poor shot etc, got broken and was back on serve. Somehow he won the tiebreak, but Nadal went through a patch of hitting some insane passing shots and defensive returns that landed just in and it gave Roger that sinking feeling again. Nadal probably would have come back down to earth if Federer could have stayed positive and Fed could have tested nadal instead of fading away.

I swear it's like some of you people just started watching tennis yesterday. People have ALWAYS gone after Nadal's backhand. Always. ******* did not discover a thing that Nalby and Davy didn't figure out years ago.

And I highly doubt a player as good as Fed would take 8 years to figure out to hit to Nadal's backhand. That is just sheer lunacy.

Federer must know to go to his backhand, the thing is he's stubborn and a bit foolish sometimes, and probably a bit arrogant I'm sorry to say. I've had computer games where I've discovered I can win by exploiting one tactic again and again. It almost felt like cheating, but what the hell, I want to win, more power tome for discovering this. In this way Nadal will mainly hit to Fed's backhand all the time. He doesn't care if it's an "easy" strategey. I don't mean this as an insult, because in this way Nadal is smart. He has a system, he uses is because it will nearly always work pretty well. Against other players he will do different things, but against Feddy he has a plan and there's no need trying to go out of your way to play in a "nice" way.

Guys like Djokovic and Davydenko are not as talented as Federer and probably don't really care about how beautiful their tennis is. I get the feeling Federer wants to win the way he likes to play. He doesn't want to play a shot over and over, he wants to mix it up. The problem is, he often gets close to beating Nadal playing that way so he maybe feels the answer isn't to change his game, it's just to play his game better. Sadly most of the time Nadal is a bit too good mentally.

Fed knows what to do, he just struggles to break out of habbit on court. Nadal can be like this too.

I seriously cannot wait for Nadal to play Rosol again and beat him. Then maybe these silly Rosol comments will finally taper off.

I'm glad you for once are confident of Nadal beating someone :lol: he will crap on Rosol from a great height. The Rosol hype is bloody ridiculous.

zapvor
10-19-2012, 09:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRqQ78RE49g

lol ridiculous half-volleys with pace in 25 mph winds.

Despite the bad record, Fed played better than he ever has against Nadal. Doing everything Djokovic did to exploit him; hit the ball on the rise, hit it deep, and give Rafa his own medicine (exploit the backhand weakness)

Why did it take him 8 years to figure this out? I hope he watches tape back before AO 2013.

wow. i forgot about this

Wilander Fan
10-19-2012, 09:21 PM
[QUOTE=Clarky21;6962788]I swear it's like some of you people just started watching tennis yesterday. People have ALWAYS gone after Nadal's backhand. Always. ******* did not discover a thing that Nalby and Davy didn't figure out years ago.

And I highly doubt a player as good as Fed would take 8 years to figure out to hit to Nadal's backhand. That is just sheer lunacy.[/

I think the real matchup problem is Nadal moves so well to his fh side that it takes away Feds favorite shot the inside out fh. He has to work much hard to win a point without that shot.

wy2sl0
10-20-2012, 02:10 PM
All of Feds big wins against Nadal have been when he has consistently hit to his BH.

I.E WTF 2011, IW 2012, WTF 2010

I hope everyone realizes that although he hits with less spin than Nadal, when he really whips it, it is very heavy and kicks.

Here is what Nadal does ad naseum: http://youtu.be/aSmDCHLJM70?t=1m10s

Here is what Federer doesn't do enough of: http://youtu.be/aSmDCHLJM70?t=3m46s

3-4 foot net clearance, a TON of spin, and deep to the backhand.

Clarky21
10-20-2012, 02:23 PM
All of Feds big wins against Nadal have been when he has consistently hit to his BH.

I.E WTF 2011, IW 2012, WTF 2010

I hope everyone realizes that although he hits with less spin than Nadal, when he really whips it, it is very heavy and kicks.

Here is what Nadal does ad naseum: http://youtu.be/aSmDCHLJM70?t=1m10s




Then if hitting to Nadal's backhand is all he has to do,why doesn't he do it in every single match they play? He's definitely got the ability to do it yet he doesn't.

wy2sl0
10-20-2012, 02:27 PM
Then if hitting to Nadal's backhand is all he has to do,why doesn't he do it in every single match they play? He's definitely got the ability to do it yet he doesn't.

I don't know, you tell me? You dismissed me as being some blind idiot. I know from reading parts of Nadal's book that his plan is simple - hit to Fed's backhand with alot of Topspin "even if it takes 23 shots to win the point".

Here is how he ended the CLOSE tiebreak.

http://youtu.be/aSmDCHLJM70?t=4m35s

All the big points in the TB he went to Nadal's BH.

The biggest reason he doesn't repeat this is because he doesn't have enough strength to get out of the FH/BH exchange once he starts to hit it; DTL with enough spin over the high part of the net is a very difficult shot but that is what made Novak so successful last year against Rafa.

single_handed_champion
10-20-2012, 05:30 PM
WTF 2011 was definitely a better match for Fed. Not only the scoreline, in WTF he only produced 8 UEs as opposed to 20+ in IW.'

Notice how Fed now constantly uses heave top spin towards Rafa's BH, sort of like looping it and kicking it off the court. However he hits it dead flat to Rafa's FH. It sort of matches Fed's playing style, i.e. flat inside-outs and heavy top-spin inside-ins. Rafa likes to push insane angles with the BH so he probably couldn't do that easily with the topspin. And plus it's harder for him to moonball when the ball's coming dead fast down to your FH.

Makes sense. NOte that Nadal's forehand has massive topspin while his backhand is much flatter in general. Such shots deal with similar shots well i.e. flat balls to the backhand, loopy ones to the forehand. Mixing it up with pace to the forehand and high balls to the backhand is how Nadal is exposed.

IN addition, it is more convenient to go for a flat shot crosscourt assuming he takes it early or gets a shortish ball, and a high backhand is much harder to hit with any bite crosscourt.

Smasher08
10-21-2012, 07:25 AM
I seriously cannot wait for Nadal to play Rosol again and beat him.

You're kidding, right? Because one way or another, they'll probably never play again.

Clarky21
10-21-2012, 07:47 AM
You're kidding, right? Because one way or another, they'll probably never play again.



I know they probably will never play again because Rosol can't make it out of qualies. I just hope they do so Nadal can beat him.

Smasher08
10-21-2012, 07:51 AM
I know they probably will never play again because Rosol can't make it out of qualies.

Lol precisely. Of course, stranger things have happened . . . so the next time they meet could even be in Bercy :)

Cup8489
10-21-2012, 07:57 AM
This point is ridiculous. Neither guy plays points like this anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vREl8AErhbA&t=3m2s