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View Full Version : Why is great ballstriking always associated with flat hitting?


dominikk1985
10-21-2012, 01:41 PM
When I hear about great ballstrikers we always talk about relatively straight, hard hitters like agassi, davidenko, davenport...

Why is that? why are extreme spin players like federer considered lesser ballstrikers? does hitting flat equal great ballstriking?

NadalDramaQueen
10-21-2012, 01:48 PM
Great ballstriking is just one of those things (like talent) that is not falsifiable. That is why it is brought up so much. If you throw in statements like "Anyone who watches tennis knows that A was a better ballstriker than B," then you are golden.

Steve0904
10-21-2012, 02:07 PM
When I hear about great ballstrikers we always talk about relatively straight, hard hitters like agassi, davidenko, davenport...

Why is that? why are extreme spin players like federer considered lesser ballstrikers? does hitting flat equal great ballstriking?

I'm not sure if Federer is a lesser ballstriker. I also wouldn't say he hits with extreme spin. He's a flat ballstriker for all intents and purposes. He may hit with more spin now as he's had to adapt to the courts a bit, but 7-8 years ago he was about as flat a ballstriker as you could get.

To answer your question, I think it's associated with flat hitting because of the timing. If you time the shot right it will come off your racquet hard and flat. This is even true for todays players.

gunnd5000
10-21-2012, 02:49 PM
Great ballstriking is just one of those things (like talent) that is not falsifiable. That is why it is brought up so much. If you throw in statements like "Anyone who watches tennis knows that A was a better ballstriker than B," then you are golden.

Thread answered tbh.

svijk
10-21-2012, 03:04 PM
When I hear about great ballstrikers we always talk about relatively straight, hard hitters like agassi, davidenko, davenport...

Why is that? why are extreme spin players like federer considered lesser ballstrikers? does hitting flat equal great ballstriking?

Never heard of this...what channel do you tune to ? :)

Fed an 'extreme' spin player, then what is Nadal , whats more than extreme??

Cup8489
10-21-2012, 03:07 PM
I'm not sure if Federer is a lesser ballstriker. I also wouldn't say he hits with extreme spin. He's a flat ballstriker for all intents and purposes. He may hit with more spin now as he's had to adapt to the courts a bit, but 7-8 years ago he was about as flat a ballstriker as you could get.

To answer your question, I think it's associated with flat hitting because of the timing. If you time the shot right it will come off your racquet hard and flat. This is even true for todays players.

ah, you're confusing trajectory with spin. Federer hits with more spin than most players. He's been doing it since at least 2004.. people were saying back then how heavy his shots were, and it just APPEARED to be flat trajectory.

Look here: Blake it hitting flat. Federer is clearly hitting with considerable spin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp0cc-leZg8

Steve0904
10-21-2012, 03:15 PM
ah, you're confusing trajectory with spin. Federer hits with more spin than most players. He's been doing it since at least 2004.. people were saying back then how heavy his shots were, and it just APPEARED to be flat trajectory.

Look here: Blake it hitting flat. Federer is clearly hitting with considerable spin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp0cc-leZg8

I still wouldn't say he hits with "extreme" spin, and he still does hit it pretty flat compared to most guys today. Nadal is the only guy today that I would put in the extreme spin category

Prisoner of Birth
10-21-2012, 03:17 PM
I still wouldn't say he hits with "extreme" spin, and he still does hit it pretty flat compared to most guys today. Nadal is the only guy today that I would put in the extreme spin category

Nadal's spin is out of this planet.

10is
10-21-2012, 03:28 PM
ah, you're confusing trajectory with spin. Federer hits with more spin than most players. He's been doing it since at least 2004.. people were saying back then how heavy his shots were, and it just APPEARED to be flat trajectory.

Look here: Blake it hitting flat. Federer is clearly hitting with considerable spin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp0cc-leZg8

I remember us having this argument a couple of months ago. You're also conflating trajectory with spin because in tennis one cannot exist without the other. People who hit flat aren't hitting the ball without any spin -- if that were the case tehy would not be able to keep the ball inside the court.

Federer used to be a "flatter" hitter during his prime, particularly 2003-2006, which doesn't imply that he wasn't imparting vicious spin on the ball. His trajectory in those days was a "much flatter" than it became starting gradually from 2007 onwards.

Federer20042006
10-21-2012, 03:36 PM
Federer hits with tons of spin but still keeps it on a fairly flat trajectory...at least in comparison to Nadal.

smoledman
10-21-2012, 03:42 PM
Federer is considered to be one of the best ballstrikers ever.

dominikk1985
10-21-2012, 03:59 PM
I'm not sure if Federer is a lesser ballstriker. I also wouldn't say he hits with extreme spin. He's a flat ballstriker for all intents and purposes. He may hit with more spin now as he's had to adapt to the courts a bit, but 7-8 years ago he was about as flat a ballstriker as you could get.

To answer your question, I think it's associated with flat hitting because of the timing. If you time the shot right it will come off your racquet hard and flat. This is even true for todays players.

feds stroke might look flat because they are powerfull but some measurements a couple years ago showed that he had massive spin only second to nadal on tour.

fed just has so much power that he can hit extremely spinny and still very hard.

El Diablo
10-21-2012, 04:28 PM
It makes perfect sense, actually. "Great ballstriking" is usually spoken of when a player tends to hit the ball cleanly and smack in the sweetspot every time, i.e. he rarely shanks or mishits. That's more likely to occur with flat hitters, who have a greater margin of error since their racquet is moving more directly (racquet face perpendicular to ball path) at the ball than the racquet of a player who hits with extreme spin.

Cup8489
10-21-2012, 07:44 PM
I remember us having this argument a couple of months ago. You're also conflating trajectory with spin because in tennis one cannot exist without the other. People who hit flat aren't hitting the ball without any spin -- if that were the case tehy would not be able to keep the ball inside the court.

Federer used to be a "flatter" hitter during his prime, particularly 2003-2006, which doesn't imply that he wasn't imparting vicious spin on the ball. His trajectory in those days was a "much flatter" than it became starting gradually from 2007 onwards.

I was using the video more as evidence of the kick each ball gets off the court. Blake is about federer's height, but he was hitting alot more shots at shoulder height or above than Federer.

Migelowsky
10-21-2012, 07:46 PM
A few days ago I saw an interview with Mac, and he said that
Agassi was the cleanest hitter he ever knew, he said
that it because he has a short uncomplicated backswing and
great timing, there are less things to go wrong compared with some
extreme topspinners that take a giant back swing.
Also, with a more horizontal swing, you donīt "run out of
racquet" , like a topspin shot where the ball slides across
the racquet face. Iīve seen many videos of Rafa hitting
the ball with the edge of the racquet from the upward swing.
Maybe thatīs what they ment.

helloworld
10-21-2012, 07:53 PM
Federer is considered to be one of the best ballstrikers ever.

Great ballstrikers don't shank their backhand like crazy. Agassi is the prime example of a great ballstriker. He hits the ball clean ALL THE TIME. Basically, noone else does that, ever...

Prisoner of Birth
10-21-2012, 07:55 PM
Great ballstrikers don't shank their backhand like crazy. Agassi is the prime example of a great ballstriker. He hits the ball clean ALL THE TIME. Basically, noone else does that, ever...

Everybody shanks balls. Even Agassi. But I must admit no top player ever shanks quite to the same degree as Federer often does.

TheCheese
10-21-2012, 08:06 PM
Federer gets the 2nd most RPMs on tour. He hits a flatter trajectory with a ton of spin.


fed just has so much power that he can hit extremely spinny and still very hard.

It's not this. Fed's technique allows him to increase power and spin simultaneously. He's not sacrificing one for the other.

Shaolin
10-21-2012, 08:23 PM
I still wouldn't say he hits with "extreme" spin, and he still does hit it pretty flat compared to most guys today. Nadal is the only guy today that I would put in the extreme spin category


Federer hits with close to as much spin as Nadal. His trajectory is flatter as mentioned already. There are lots of guys who hit with a flatter trajectory than Fed, like Berdych, Delpo, Sod, Blake, Gulbis etc. You don't count Andreev in the extreme spin category with Nadal? :rolleyes:

Steve0904
10-22-2012, 06:49 AM
Federer hits with close to as much spin as Nadal. His trajectory is flatter as mentioned already. There are lots of guys who hit with a flatter trajectory than Fed, like Berdych, Delpo, Sod, Blake, Gulbis etc. You don't count Andreev in the extreme spin category with Nadal? :rolleyes:

Gimme a break! Like I really thought about Andreev.

pc1
10-22-2012, 06:54 AM
When I hear about great ballstrikers we always talk about relatively straight, hard hitters like agassi, davidenko, davenport...

Why is that? why are extreme spin players like federer considered lesser ballstrikers? does hitting flat equal great ballstriking?

I don't think they are necessarily associated with flat hitters. I think people think of great ballstrikers with accurate groundstrokes who rarely mishit and that's often flat hitter. Nadal is not ranked as a great ballstriker but perhaps he should considering how much topspin he puts on the put and how rarely he mishits considering that.

But you're right, throughout tennis history most of the great ballstrikers are guys like Budge, Connors, Agassi, Rosewall who were flat hitters.

Biscuitmcgriddleson
10-22-2012, 07:34 AM
I'm not sure if Federer is a lesser ballstriker. I also wouldn't say he hits with extreme spin. He's a flat ballstriker for all intents and purposes. He may hit with more spin now as he's had to adapt to the courts a bit, but 7-8 years ago he was about as flat a ballstriker as you could get.

To answer your question, I think it's associated with flat hitting because of the timing. If you time the shot right it will come off your racquet hard and flat. This is even true for todays players.

Federer was still hitting with gobs of spins, he just uses a flatter trajectory compared to others like Nadal and company.

Shaolin
10-22-2012, 08:59 AM
Gimme a break! Like I really thought about Andreev.

Yeah, I didn't think you put much thought into it.

Boricua
10-22-2012, 09:41 AM
Nadal's spin is out of this planet.

Verdasco hits with less topspin than Nadal but hits a pretty spinny ball as well..

Boricua
10-22-2012, 09:43 AM
I don't think they are necessarily associated with flat hitters. I think people think of great ballstrikers with accurate groundstrokes who rarely mishit and that's often flat hitter. Nadal is not ranked as a great ballstriker but perhaps he should considering how much topspin he puts on the put and how rarely he mishits considering that.

But you're right, throughout tennis history most of the great ballstrikers are guys like Budge, Connors, Agassi, Rosewall who were flat hitters.

Also Nalbandian. Del Potro is pretty good also.