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McEnroeisanartist
10-22-2012, 06:59 AM
Since 2005, a member of the big four (Federer, Djokovic, Nadal and Murray) has not made the final at the following Masters Series tournaments the following times:

Indian Wells - 1
Miami - 1
Monte Carlo - 0
Rome - 0
Hamburg/Madrid - 1
Canadian Open - 0
Cincinnati - 1
Madrid/Shanghai - 0
Paris - 4

Towser83
10-22-2012, 07:44 AM
Well it shows Paris is the masters the top players give least effort to since its right before the year end championship.

Steve0904
10-22-2012, 08:00 AM
The one time for Hamburg came in 2006 when Nadal, and Federer both pulled out after the epic Rome final, and Djokovic and Murray were nowhere near as good as they are today, so that ones got extenuating circumstances attached in a sense.

ark_28
10-22-2012, 08:00 AM
Well it shows Paris is the masters the top players give least effort to since its right before the year end championship.

Absolutely and I expect to see that be even more apparent this year as the WTF starts a day after Paris ends! We know the reasons for it (longer off season) and it's logical but something has to give and it will probably be the quality in Paris with London a day after!

Mainad
10-22-2012, 08:47 AM
The one time for Hamburg came in 2006 when Nadal, and Federer both pulled out after the epic Rome final, and Djokovic and Murray were nowhere near as good as they are today, so that ones got extenuating circumstances attached in a sense.

IW and Miami are interesting. Their one exception both came in 2010. Roddick played both finals, won one (Miami v Berdych), lost one (IW v Ljubicic). It was the last time he played anywhere near his peak form. It was all downhill after that.

What was happening with the Big 4 at that time? The AO finalists that year both seemed to be in a post AO funk. As the loser, Murray's was more understandable and predictable but what gave with Federer? He should have been on a high! Djokovic was experimenting unsuccessfully with new racquets and service motion. Can't recall what was going on with Nadal, although he soon recovered to have his second best year on tour after 2008.

The spring of 2010 was a rare window of opportunity for other players as none of the Big 4 seemed to be firing on all cylinders at that time!

joeri888
10-22-2012, 08:58 AM
IW and Miami are interesting. Their one exception both came in 2010. Roddick played both finals, won one (Miami v Berdych), lost one (IW v Ljubicic). It was the last time he played anywhere near his peak form. It was all downhill after that.

What was happening with the Big 4 at that time? The AO finalists that year both seemed to be in a post AO funk. As the loser, Murray's was more understandable and predictable but what gave with Federer? He should have been on a high! Djokovic was experimenting unsuccessfully with new racquets and service motion. Can't recall what was going on with Nadal, although he soon recovered to have his second best year on tour after 2008.

The spring of 2010 was a rare window of opportunity for other players as none of the Big 4 seemed to be firing on all cylinders at that time!

IW and Miami 2010 were so refreshing in many ways. Hoped it would continue throughout the season. I felt it was promising that Isner-Fed was the final in IW this year (instead of expected Nad-Djok), then from Miami onwards it ws business as usual. Growing pretty tired of it.

underground
10-22-2012, 11:25 AM
IW and Miami are interesting. Their one exception both came in 2010. Roddick played both finals, won one (Miami v Berdych), lost one (IW v Ljubicic). It was the last time he played anywhere near his peak form. It was all downhill after that.

What was happening with the Big 4 at that time? The AO finalists that year both seemed to be in a post AO funk. As the loser, Murray's was more understandable and predictable but what gave with Federer? He should have been on a high! Djokovic was experimenting unsuccessfully with new racquets and service motion. Can't recall what was going on with Nadal, although he soon recovered to have his second best year on tour after 2008.

The spring of 2010 was a rare window of opportunity for other players as none of the Big 4 seemed to be firing on all cylinders at that time!

Fed started to have his slump and it was before Nadal had his amazing year.

Gonzo_style
10-22-2012, 11:33 AM
Soderling-Monfils was the last. After that 17 consecutive big 4...

Towser83
10-22-2012, 12:37 PM
Absolutely and I expect to see that be even more apparent this year as the WTF starts a day after Paris ends! We know the reasons for it (longer off season) and it's logical but something has to give and it will probably be the quality in Paris with London a day after!

yeah, I wonder if there will be some big pullouts in Paris. I feel Murray will bag Paris, I think Djokovic and Federer will half tank it, but Murray will be keen to grab the last masters of the year since he has not won one yet in 2012

Steve0904
10-22-2012, 12:57 PM
IW and Miami are interesting. Their one exception both came in 2010. Roddick played both finals, won one (Miami v Berdych), lost one (IW v Ljubicic). It was the last time he played anywhere near his peak form. It was all downhill after that.

What was happening with the Big 4 at that time? The AO finalists that year both seemed to be in a post AO funk. As the loser, Murray's was more understandable and predictable but what gave with Federer? He should have been on a high! Djokovic was experimenting unsuccessfully with new racquets and service motion. Can't recall what was going on with Nadal, although he soon recovered to have his second best year on tour after 2008.

The spring of 2010 was a rare window of opportunity for other players as none of the Big 4 seemed to be firing on all cylinders at that time!

Nadal lost to Ljubicic in the SF in IW. I don't think there was anything out of the ordinary going on with him, but he may not have had full preparation due to how he pulled out of Australia although Murray is full credit for that win. I was under the impression he was ok come IW though, and it's a flimsy excuse at best. As for Federer, he had a lung infection that caused him to pull out of Dubai, but again come IW I thought he was ok, and that's a pretty flimsy excuse as well.

kOaMaster
10-23-2012, 02:03 AM
Since the beginning of 2005, there have been held 71 Masters 1000 tournaments. Of those 71, only 12 (3x Davydenko, 2x Nalbandian, 2x Roddick, 1x Ljubicic, 1x Söderling, 1x Robredo, 1x Tsonga, 1x Berdych) have been won by someone not named Federer (17 plus 4 won earlier), Nadal (21), Djokovic (13) or Murray (8).

Supporting the "Paris-Theory" is also that 5 of those 12 wins came from the Paris Masters 1000. The other wins are pretty well distributed over all tournaments.
Only Monte Carlo, Rome and Canada have no other winner except those four.

An extreme dominance, considering that the GS are distributed within them as well (except for DP and Safin at AO05).

amazingly, Ferrer did never win anything higher than a ATP500-tournament (lost three Masters finals plus 1 YEC).
Gasquet lost three 1000.
Blake lost two 1000, 1 YEC,
Gonzales two 1000, 1 GS,

sbengte
10-23-2012, 02:24 AM
Well it shows Paris is the masters the top players give least effort to since its right before the year end championship.

Or does it have something to do with the surface ? It is by far the fastest of all the Masters ? Favors a certain style of play. Wasn't it in Paris that Llodra beat Nole a couple of years ago ? And Nadal of late doesn't bother showing up there knowing the surface won't help him.

Gonzo_style
10-23-2012, 08:35 AM
Or does it have something to do with the surface ? It is by far the fastest of all the Masters ? Favors a certain style of play. Wasn't it in Paris that Llodra beat Nole a couple of years ago ? And Nadal of late doesn't bother showing up there knowing the surface won't help him.

Djokovic won Paris 2009, Nadal played final in 2007 and SF in 2009 (lost vs Djokovic). But the truth is that many players skipped Paris for participating in WTFs.

Towser83
10-23-2012, 12:26 PM
Or does it have something to do with the surface ? It is by far the fastest of all the Masters ? Favors a certain style of play. Wasn't it in Paris that Llodra beat Nole a couple of years ago ? And Nadal of late doesn't bother showing up there knowing the surface won't help him.

I thought 2 years ago it was extra fast and last year was slow? I agree fast surfaces produce more upsets but i think a lot of times it gets skipped because its proximity to the wtf