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View Full Version : Is Federer immune to tough losses?


tennis_pro
10-22-2012, 02:03 PM
He seems like a guy who shruggs them off real fast. Just check the run he's been on since the 2011 US Open semi-final loss. A loss that would tear lots of players apart. Since then Fed has lost only 9 matches and won 75+

Even back in the day in 2008/2009 when he wasn't used to that many heartbreakers, he still recovered well. After losing the 2008 Wimbledon final he did win an Olympic gold medal and the very next major (the US Open). After losing the 2009 AO final he also went on to win the very next GS tournament and went on a 20+ match winning streak or something.

After losing to Djokovic at the 2010 US Open having squandered 2 match points he barely lost before the final of any tournament that year and going into 2011 (Shanghai final, Paris SF having match points, wins in Basel, Stockholm, WTF, won Doha next year).

Nadal on the other hand, while mentally tougher in actual matches, has never done well after heart breaking losses. 2009 FO, 2012 Wimbledon, most of 2011 after being beaten by Djokovic that many times.

McEnroeisanartist
10-22-2012, 02:07 PM
He seems like a guy who shruggs them off real fast. Just check the run he's been on since the 2011 US Open semi-final loss. A loss that would tear lots of players apart. Since then Fed has lost only 9 matches and won 75+

Even back in the day in 2008/2009 when he wasn't used to that many heartbreakers, he still recovered well. After losing the 2008 Wimbledon final he did win an Olympic gold medal and the very next major (the US Open). After losing the 2009 AO final he also went on to win the very next GS tournament and went on a 20+ match winning streak or something.

After losing to Djokovic at the 2010 US Open having squandered 2 match points he barely lost before the final of any tournament that year and going into 2011 (Shanghai final, Paris SF having match points, wins in Basel, Stockholm, WTF, won Doha next year).

Nadal on the other hand, while mentally tougher in actual matches, has never done well after heart breaking losses. 2009 FO, 2012 Wimbledon, most of 2011 after being beaten by Djokovic that many times.

Yes, I contend that despite having more significant victories than any player in history, he has had by far more devastating/crushing losses than any player in history. He is perhaps the most resilent player ever. Part of the reason, why I love him. Beyond inspiring.

Steve0904
10-22-2012, 02:40 PM
I don't know if immune is the right word, as obviously directly after a loss he shows his emotions as anybody would, but he's one of if not the best at bouncing back from tough losses given time.

Prisoner of Birth
10-22-2012, 02:47 PM
Yes, I contend that despite having more significant victories than any player in history, he has had by far more devastating/crushing losses than any player in history. He is perhaps the most resilent player ever. Part of the reason, why I love him. Beyond inspiring.

Yeah, resilient is the word. His arrogance makes him competitive. He knows he's the best and he has the confidence to know that he can work hard to come back.

Federer20042006
10-22-2012, 02:49 PM
It's a lot easier to come back when the loss doesn't change the fact that you have 16 slams and all kinds of other records/achievements.

cork_screw
10-22-2012, 02:51 PM
I think you need to shrug them off. If you retained them in your mind you would be mentally weak and fall apart next time you play that same player, that similar situation say a semi/finals in a big slam or if you're up a break of set and it's on your serve to take the set. Something in your head clicks and you remember what happened the last time and that affects the way you play. That's why federer is really mentally tough and berdych, tsonga and others have a tough time winning GS' That's why when fed lost to murray at the olympics and shanghai, he did the right thing and he does just need to shrug it off. Don't think about it just try hard next time and maybe work on some strategy for the next meet. But to retain that stuff is like having black soot in your system, it does not help you any, it just pollutes your mind and mentality.

Just imagine if you shrunk that down, instead of that being a match, if you retained losing a break when you were up 0-40 or if you were serving and got broken and were up 40-0. That would fester and you wouldn't stop thinking that you should be at least one game up on there person. And it would probably affect the way you would play the rest of the match.

Federer is tough and so is nadal and Djokovic because they forget about what just happened and move on. It was a tough set, and you blew it, now just focus on the next set. Retaining bad experiences isn't normally what people would want.

You wanna see what a mentally weak player is? Berdych is a really mentally weak guy. At this year's aussie open, he was up 1 set and up a break against nadal. He might have been at the 5th game, only to hold serve a few times to be up 2 sets to null and he lost pretty bad. You could see where he was thinking about what could happen and all the things of beating someone like nadal and he got nervous and just lost. But that strain where you think about things whether youre up or your down and letting someone steam roll over you is neither a good thing and I can't imagine someone like Berdych or even tsonga who's kinda like that as well, winning unless some of the guys from the top 4 get upset and they don't have to deal with the thought that they might actually beat one of those guys. Yeah, berdych is a huge mental disappointment. Another guy is wawrinka how he just tanked the 3rd set after losing the 2nd set in tiebreak in shanghai. He's such an idiot because at that moment the match was all tied, he wasn't down in the match, but from his mental state he seemed like he just lost a tight second set and was down 2 sets to null in a GS event. That is not the type of play you would see from nadal or djok to lose a 3rd set in love just because you felt let down by a tight set.

Magnetite
10-22-2012, 03:01 PM
Nope. He definitely has been affected by his tough losses to Nadal. He doesn't seem to believe he can beat Nadal in tough matches. You can see him mentally breaking down, when the match is close.

Generally though, he takes tough losses pretty well, and fights back from them. However, you just can't claim he's immune to them.

Def
10-22-2012, 03:41 PM
He seems like a guy who shruggs them off real fast. Just check the run he's been on since the 2011 US Open semi-final loss. A loss that would tear lots of players apart. Since then Fed has lost only 9 matches and won 75+

Even back in the day in 2008/2009 when he wasn't used to that many heartbreakers, he still recovered well. After losing the 2008 Wimbledon final he did win an Olympic gold medal and the very next major (the US Open). After losing the 2009 AO final he also went on to win the very next GS tournament and went on a 20+ match winning streak or something.

After losing to Djokovic at the 2010 US Open having squandered 2 match points he barely lost before the final of any tournament that year and going into 2011 (Shanghai final, Paris SF having match points, wins in Basel, Stockholm, WTF, won Doha next year).

Nadal on the other hand, while mentally tougher in actual matches, has never done well after heart breaking losses. 2009 FO, 2012 Wimbledon, most of 2011 after being beaten by Djokovic that many times.

I have some odd feeling that some guy named Nadal won that gold medal. Hmm... maybe I'm just delusional?

Prisoner of Birth
10-22-2012, 03:45 PM
I have some odd feeling that some guy named Nadal won that gold medal. Hmm... maybe I'm just delusional?

You're just forgetful. Federer won the doubles Gold.

Def
10-22-2012, 03:46 PM
You're just forgetful. Federer won the doubles Gold.

I am now going back into my hole. :oops:

Russeljones
10-22-2012, 10:25 PM
Yeah, resilient is the word. His arrogance makes him competitive. He knows he's the best and he has the confidence to know that he can work hard to come back.

How naive, seriously.

Prisoner of Birth
10-22-2012, 10:39 PM
How naive, seriously.

I mean, it's a factor. Arrogance doesn't always have to be a negative.

joeri888
10-22-2012, 11:28 PM
I mean, it's a factor. Arrogance doesn't always have to be a negative.

Even if they won't say it out loud, every great champion has a level of selfbelief and confidence that people in ordinary life would find disgusting I think.

Prisoner of Birth
10-22-2012, 11:30 PM
Even if they won't say it out loud, every great champion has a level of selfbelief and confidence that people in ordinary life would find disgusting I think.

Exactly. It's the ones who think they're oh-so-humble that are naive.

Prisoner of Birth
10-22-2012, 11:32 PM
I am now going back into my hole. :oops:

NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

joeri888
10-22-2012, 11:35 PM
Exactly. It's the ones who think they're oh-so-humble that are naive.

Yes. But there is nothing wrong with being that confident, and I think it's good that they act humble, because we don't like people acting like they own the world. That's what bothered people the most when they got a glimpse of the real Woods and (even more) Armstrong. They acted and thought they were above the law, and while i don't think every amazing athlete does that, it's an example of their selfbelief, self-centeredness etc. If they weren't like that, they wouldn't achieve that much.

Prisoner of Birth
10-22-2012, 11:42 PM
Yes. But there is nothing wrong with being that confident, and I think it's good that they act humble, because we don't like people acting like they own the world. That's what bothered people the most when they got a glimpse of the real Woods and (even more) Armstrong. They acted and thought they were above the law, and while i don't think every amazing athlete does that, it's an example of their selfbelief, self-centeredness etc. If they weren't like that, they wouldn't achieve that much.

That's what I meant by, "arrogance doesn't always have to be a negative."

sbengte
10-23-2012, 01:21 AM
You wanna see what a mentally weak player is? Berdych is a really mentally weak guy. At this year's aussie open, he was up 1 set and up a break against nadal. He might have been at the 5th game, only to hold serve a few times to be up 2 sets to null and he lost pretty bad. You could see where he was thinking about what could happen and all the things of beating someone like nadal and he got nervous and just lost. But that strain where you think about things whether youre up or your down and letting someone steam roll over you is neither a good thing and I can't imagine someone like Berdych or even tsonga who's kinda like that as well, winning unless some of the guys from the top 4 get upset and they don't have to deal with the thought that they might actually beat one of those guys. Yeah, berdych is a huge mental disappointment..

Regarding Berdych's example, it is not like he hasn't beaten the top guys in a slam. He has beaten Fed twice. Granted it was a post prime Fed who was playing subpar , but he could have easily choked in those situations which he didn't.

Russeljones
10-23-2012, 05:11 AM
Exactly. It's the ones who think they're oh-so-humble that are naive.

Naive is the thought process that allows one to believe that arrogance precedes excellence.

joeri888
10-23-2012, 05:51 AM
Naive is the thought process that allows one to believe that arrogance precedes excellence.

It's quite obvious that you have to be self-centered (choosing your own career over family, friends, letting others pay lots of money for you to be able to train), self believing (believing you will make it, no matter what, being willing to risk your future for it and give up on your education) and self-confident (believing you can beat and be the best) to an extreme extent. Nadal's clownesk remarks on performance anxiety or whatever are ridicule. No excellent athlete in tennis has that to that degree. You also need a lot of stubbornness, not letting media stories, opponents, bad losses get in your way. This will make you seem arrogant in the normal world.

Steve0904
10-23-2012, 06:04 AM
Naive is the thought process that allows one to believe that arrogance precedes excellence.

This is a good point. I don't think he was that arrogant (for lack of a better word) before he started winning everything in sight, but I do think that today he has an immense amount of self belief that can become a bit arrogant at times. As others have said, it's not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, I like the fact that Federer is honest. Nadal ****es me off like that sometimes by being overly humble. I remember that a reporter interviewed him (I believe it was after he won the AO) and asked him about the CYGS. He said something like CYGS is very difficult for me, if not impossible no? And I just thought to myself "C'mon Rafa we're not stupid. You're a lock for RG (as it turned out he wasn't, but at the time everybody thought he was), you just beat Federer at Wimbledon and the AO, and you even made a SF at the USO the year before. It's not impossible for you. Don't play me for an idiot." Although getting back to Federer I have a couple videos that show his "arrogance" in his earlier days. Take a look at these.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2M8kgLSlPg

The sound is off here because I'm at university, but I'm pretty sure that somewhere in that video despite the fact that for most of it he's blubbering, he says he enjoys watching himself play, and the crowd makes a big noise, and he corrects himself, the premise of course being that he knows he plays a visually appealing style for most people. And here's another

This was in Cincy in 2005 after he had beaten Roddick in the final (he only had 5 slams at this point.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUi7Is7H54M

Bobby Jr
10-23-2012, 06:13 AM
Federer has been like this for years - he is one of the greatest at not dwelling on losses, even particularly tough ones. The amount of times he's suffered what were tough ones and then gone onto a run of fantastic performances is something extremely rare in sports. His post-US Open run last year was amazing and no-one had an answer.

It may be a cliche to say so in most situations but the verve Federer has for competition doesn't seemed to have waned one bit in recent years - in contrast to many other past greats who seem to be wayward in their form a lot more (Agassi, Becker, Lendl etc) or get caught up in long runs of poor performances (Sampras, Wilander etc).

kOaMaster
10-23-2012, 02:11 PM
that is definitely true. If you think of it - many many of his greatest or "most important" successes came after a big loss. his first wimbledon title after his loss vs ancic the year before (i think this one was very important in particular for his career). the period after losing vs safin in 05 or berdych at the 04 olympics. the french open&wimbledon 09, the us open 08, the period right after the us open last year.

Talker
10-23-2012, 02:18 PM
The tough losses effect Federer but he's good at putting it behind him.

Some of those losses he's had were very bad but how he uses those lessons is what makes the difference.
Self belief carries him time and time again.

Agassifan
10-23-2012, 02:37 PM
Look at his resume... 17, 301, 237, 23, etc. Why would he worry about tough losses?

paulorenzo
10-23-2012, 04:41 PM
Yeah, resilient is the word. His arrogance makes him competitive. He knows he's the best and he has the confidence to know that he can work hard to come back.

djokovic gives off the same aura as well. i wouldn't describe it as arrogance because neither of them have an incredibly exaggerated sense of their abilities since they are able to produce results. that's the difference. their confidence matches their ability which matches their results. it would be arrogant if fed and djokovic carried the same aura but failed to produce. similar to how some people perceive tomic.

paulorenzo
10-23-2012, 04:43 PM
Yes. But there is nothing wrong with being that confident, and I think it's good that they act humble, because we don't like people acting like they own the world. That's what bothered people the most when they got a glimpse of the real Woods and (even more) Armstrong. They acted and thought they were above the law, and while i don't think every amazing athlete does that, it's an example of their selfbelief, self-centeredness etc. If they weren't like that, they wouldn't achieve that much.

and jordan