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View Full Version : Has Nadal's career been ruined by injuries yet?


Tammo
10-25-2012, 01:54 PM
NOTE: This is NOT a Nadal bashing thread.

Clearly Nadal's career is not as bad (injury wise) as players like Haas, Nalbandian, Hewitt etc. But overall he has probably been out of the game for 1 to 1 1/2 years. So does he need to stay out of the game longer in order for his career to become marred?

Steve0904
10-25-2012, 01:59 PM
His career has not been ruined by injury if he can come back and play well after this one.

The Bawss
10-25-2012, 02:02 PM
Maybe, but he earned it. He paid the price for his success. Haas, Hewitt and Nalbandian on the other hand were just unlucky. Just for the record, Becker deserved injuries too for all the jumping around like a fool he did.

Agassifan
10-25-2012, 02:06 PM
I don't think injuries have robbed him of any slams, but they've definitely hurt his ranking points.

Gonzo_style
10-25-2012, 02:11 PM
I don't think injuries have robbed him of any slams, but they've definitely hurt his ranking points.

RG 2009? After that Nadal didn't play two months.

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 02:11 PM
Rafa doesn't want to play anymore, simple. He is enjoying life away from the court. I wish he would just admit that he won't be back and announce retirement. He is still not practising or doing anything tennis related. It s just parties and poker. I no longer believe that Rafa will ever hit a tennis ball again. Time for him to come clean that he has left tennis and so that his fans can just get on with things. Rafa was a slave to tennis from an early age and now he is rebelling, doing what he wants without being told by Uncle Toni. Enjoy your life Rafa and just admit that you are done with tennis so that his fans can get on with their lives and decide which player they will support from now on. Sick of all this crap that he is coming back, will practice in 10 days etc! Pure fiction! Don't know what the big deal is!

Murray1337
10-25-2012, 02:13 PM
Rafa doesn't want to play anymore, simple. He is enjoying life away from the court. I wish he would just admit that he won't be back and announce retirement. He is still not practising or doing anything tennis related. It s just parties and poker. I no longer believe that Rafa will ever hit a tennis ball again. Time for him to come clean that he has left tennis and so that his fans can just get on with things. Rafa was a slave to tennis from an early age and now he is rebelling, doing what he wants without being told by Uncle Toni. Enjoy your life Rafa and just admit that you are done with tennis so that his fans can get on with their lives and decide which player they will support from now on. Sick of all this crap that he is coming back, will practice in 10 days etc! Pure fiction! Don't know what the big deal is!

O______________O

MichaelNadal
10-25-2012, 02:15 PM
Right now, no. Only if he doesn't come back in top form from this one.

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 02:23 PM
Yes, I return now and again. No big deal.

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 02:24 PM
Thanks for quoting my famous speech. I am proud of it :)

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 02:28 PM
Back to thread matter now. I have just stated my thoughts about the whole Rafa saga. I am tired of it. I would rather we just get the truth about Rafa leaving the game instead of all this nonsense and re-hash every week. No return in sight and no practise! Doesn't fill me with any hope at all. Rafa is so not coming back. I used to pray that he would return but it seems not. I never knew that Rafa hated being a tennis player like this!To quit at 26! Wow

Clarky21
10-25-2012, 02:39 PM
Back to thread matter now. I have just stated my thoughts about the whole Rafa saga. I am tired of it. I would rather we just get the truth about Rafa leaving the game instead of all this nonsense and re-hash every week. No return in sight and no practise! Doesn't fill me with any hope at all. Rafa is so not coming back. I used to pray that he would return but it seems not. I never knew that Rafa hated being a tennis player like this!To quit at 26! Wow


I agree with you somewhat. I too think he's not coming back,and that he should stop stringing us along and just come out with it. The incompetence from his team is mind blowing.


I also think he is enjoying life without tennis. He partied it up last night at the JCF retirement party so much that he got so sloshed he had to be helped back to the hotel by Pico and Feli. Lol. Sounds like he's having a good time to me.

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 02:45 PM
Exactly Clarky. Glad you agree with me. Rafa should be honest to his fans! Just make announcement! The sooner the better. He is a right party animal, enjoying life to the full. Rafa is just another footballer.

The Bawss
10-25-2012, 02:51 PM
I agree with you somewhat. I too think he's not coming back,and that he should stop stringing us along and just come out with it. The incompetence from his team is mind blowing.


I also think he is enjoying life without tennis. He partied it up last night at the JCF retirement party so much that he got so sloshed he had to be helped back to the hotel by Pico and Feli. Lol. Sounds like he's having a good time to me.

Link or it didn't happen.

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 02:54 PM
It is all over someone's twitter account on another Rafa thread in this forum. Rafa has really gone off the rails. Good riddance to Rafa is what I say. No class at all.

Carsomyr
10-25-2012, 02:56 PM
I agree with you somewhat. I too think he's not coming back,and that he should stop stringing us along and just come out with it. The incompetence from his team is mind blowing.


I also think he is enjoying life without tennis. He partied it up last night at the JCF retirement party so much that he got so sloshed he had to be helped back to the hotel by Pico and Feli. Lol. Sounds like he's having a good time to me.

Source? Pictures?

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 02:56 PM
Link or it didn't happen.

See link in the Nadal news thread. Another teenage prodigy gone off the rails. Rafa is the latest. Time for him to say he is done with tennis.

90's Clay
10-25-2012, 02:59 PM
Its already been ruined in a sense. If you think of how injury derailed him throughout his career, (Most notably what should have been his peak year 2009) and currently with his injury situation. .. He should have the slam record or close to it.

Hes an all time great career now (Top 10 or so all time), but take all those injuries into account, he should have a GOAT-like career

Mainad
10-25-2012, 03:14 PM
It's a difficult one to call. Obviously only Rafa himself can tell us what's really going on.

It does seem to me that the longer you stay away from the tour, the harder it is to come back to it. You start to pursue other interests that you have had to neglect or suppress while playing. You get used to the novelty of pursuing them and being free at last of the pressures of the tour. You start to enjoy this more relaxed lifestyle so much that you begin to push back the date for your return whether justified or not. For a guy like Rafa, who has pretty much accomplished nearly everything worth accomplishing in tennis and has made more money than he will ever be able to spend, there is especially no urgent incentive to have to get back to work as there would be for a lower-ranked player who needs to start earning again.

I'm thinking of a guy like Soderling as well. He's been away from the tour now for 15 months. He sends the occasional tweet to his fans, saying he's started practicing again but has set no firm date for a return to the tour. You get the impression he's doing it mainly to keep his fans happy. In the meantime, he's enjoying new-found fatherhood with his fiancée and baby daughter, spending some of his own considerable wealth and just enjoying life away from the pressures of the tour. Nadal too tweets that he's started practicing again but also sets no firm date for a return. He too is enjoying life otherwise. Maybe he too is just saying these things to keep the fans happy and hopeful for his eventual return.

For what it's worth, I do think Nadal will make a re-appearance in the New Year at some stage. When and where is open to question. He may only want to play a much more limited schedule than in the past. Maybe only at clay events. Who knows? Who knows what form he will be in if and when he returns?

But the longer he stays away, I think it will be more difficult for him to regain his former dominance or even his place at the top and if he's not capable of doing those things, then there's no point to coming back at all.

Clarky21
10-25-2012, 03:18 PM
It's a difficult one to call. Obviously only Rafa himself can tell us what's really going on.

It does seem to me that the longer you stay away from the tour, the harder it is to come back to it. You start to pursue other interests that you have had to neglect or suppress while playing. You get used to the novelty of pursuing them and being free at last of the pressures of the tour. You start to enjoy this more relaxed lifestyle so much that you begin to push back the date for your return whether justified or not. For a guy like Rafa, who has pretty much accomplished nearly everything worth accomplishing in tennis and has made more money than he will ever be able to spend, there is especially no urgent incentive to have to get back to work as there would be for a lower-ranked player who needs to start earning again.

I'm thinking of a guy like Soderling as well. He's been away from the tour now for 15 months. He sends the occasional tweet to his fans, saying he's started practicing again but has set no firm date for a return to the tour. You get the impression he's doing it mainly to keep his fans happy. In the meantime, he's enjoying new-found fatherhood with his fiancée and baby daughter, spending some of his own considerable wealth and just enjoying life away from the pressures of the tour. Nadal too tweets that he's started practicing again but also sets no firm date for a return. He too is enjoying life otherwise. Maybe he too is just saying these things to keep the fans happy and hopeful for his eventual return.

For what it's worth, I do think Nadal will make a re-appearance in the New Year at some stage. When and where is open to question. He may only want to play a much more limited schedule than in the past. Maybe only at clay events. Who knows? Who knows what form he will be in if and when he returns?

But the longer he stays away, I think it will be more difficult for him to regain his former dominance or even his place at the top and if he's not capable of doing those things, then there's no point to coming back at all.


He has never Tweeted that he is practicing again. He has not practiced at all in nearly 3 months.

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 03:23 PM
I agree with your points Mainad. Rafa should just get the announcement over and done with. If his fans have any sense they know he has gone. He should just say it and be free of everything and do all that he has missed out on in life etc and all the teenage years he lost. Those fb updates are nonsense.

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 03:24 PM
I want Rafa to put on fb 'I have Retired'. Then all this crap will be over. Very simple Rafa. As Nike says 'Just Do it'!.

Mainad
10-25-2012, 03:31 PM
I agree with your points Mainad. Rafa should just get the announcement over and done with. If his fans have any sense they know he has gone. He should just say it and be free of everything and do all that he has missed out on in life etc and all the teenage years he lost. Those fb updates are nonsense.

As I said, I think he will re-appear at some point in the New Year, probably at the AO. I don't think he's ready to write off his career just yet. He still wants to keep all options open. It's mainly that he is enjoying his extended leave of absence from the pressures of the tour so I think there are certain psychological issues going hand in hand with the genuine physical problems.

Mainad
10-25-2012, 03:35 PM
He has never Tweeted that he is practicing again. He has not practiced at all in nearly 3 months.

Okay. I thought he said at one point that he had started hitting again and that his knee felt much better but was still not quite 100%. If I am mistaken, I apologise.

Mike Sams
10-25-2012, 03:38 PM
Its already been ruined in a sense. If you think of how injury derailed him throughout his career, (Most notably what should have been his peak year 2009) and currently with his injury situation. .. He should have the slam record or close to it.

Hes an all time great career now (Top 10 or so all time), but take all those injuries into account, he should have a GOAT-like career

Nadal never had the talent to get the Slam record. It was never there for him to take. He had momentum runs but everybody saw he was not as efficient on grass and hardcourts as he was on clay. 5 Masters titles off clay proves his limitations and it had nothing to do with injury. He was simply outclassed by superior hardcourt players.
Nadal has only 4 non-clay Grand Slam titles. How many non-clay Slams did Sampras have? How many non-clay Slams did Federer have? It's all we need to know. Nadal was limited off clay.

Mike Sams
10-25-2012, 03:44 PM
Its already been ruined in a sense. If you think of how injury derailed him throughout his career, (Most notably what should have been his peak year 2009) and currently with his injury situation. .. He should have the slam record or close to it.

Hes an all time great career now (Top 10 or so all time), but take all those injuries into account, he should have a GOAT-like career

You also fail to realize just how murderous Nadal's matches were. His matches in 2009 were SO violently difficult. It took so much out of him. Remember the epic war with Verdasco? Followed by the taxing battle with Federer? The 4 hour madrid war with Djokovic? Nobody in the history of this sport can play matches like that season after season. It will simply break you. Nadal was broken and it took him 1 whole year to finally win a title...and it happened to be on clay. No surprise there.

Mike Sams
10-25-2012, 03:46 PM
Nadal had a great career. His fans should be thankful that he completed the career Slam and has a gold medal. It's the perfect career. The competition though today has risen to new heights.

Gonzo_style
10-25-2012, 03:48 PM
Nadal never had the talent to get the Slam record. It was never there for him to take. He had momentum runs but everybody saw he was not as efficient on grass and hardcourts as he was on clay. 5 Masters titles off clay proves his limitations and it had nothing to do with injury. He was simply outclassed by superior hardcourt players.
Nadal has only 4 non-clay Grand Slam titles. How many non-clay Slams did Sampras have? How many non-clay Slams did Federer have? It's all we need to know. Nadal was limited off clay.

Why are you obsessed with Nadal and his results off clay? Yes, Federer and Sampras have more titles on HC, and what Nadal needs to do, hang himself for that?

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 03:48 PM
Nadal had a great career. His fans should be thankful that he completed the career Slam and has a gold medal. It's the perfect career. The competition though today has risen to new heights.

Yes, sure. But I never wanted it to end like this! Rafa has just walked away without a word and all these lies. He really thinks people are stupid.

jaggy
10-25-2012, 03:49 PM
It's a Michael Jordan type break from the game.

Mainad
10-25-2012, 03:52 PM
Nadal never had the talent to get the Slam record. It was never there for him to take. He had momentum runs but everybody saw he was not as efficient on grass and hardcourts as he was on clay. 5 Masters titles off clay proves his limitations and it had nothing to do with injury. He was simply outclassed by superior hardcourt players.
Nadal has only 4 non-clay Grand Slam titles. How many non-clay Slams did Sampras have? How many non-clay Slams did Federer have? It's all we need to know. Nadal was limited off clay.

But he has many more non-clay Slams (4) than Federer has clay Slams (1) and more or less the same number of hardcourt Masters (5) as Federer has clay Masters (6). So yes, he is limited off clay but, in this case, 'limited' is a relative term, isn't it? He has still won each of the 2 hardcourt Slams and the grass Slam (Wimbledon) twice! So he is less limited on non-clay surfaces than Federer is on clay!

Netspirit
10-25-2012, 03:53 PM
He has had a great career. He is in the all-time greats list even if he never plays again.

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 03:59 PM
It doesn't matter about the surfaces to me. it is all about the titles. I am very proud of what Rafa has won and when he wins a title it makes me happy. It has all ended now. Rafa has quenched his thirst with titles. He is bored with winning titles and tennis. It ended very prematurely. The Federer fans are the lucky ones. He is still around and he has given his fans so much joy over the years and he loves playing and his fans have a wonderful champion to cherish. I envy them. Roger stays away from injuries and has good mental and physical powers.

BauerAlmeida
10-25-2012, 04:00 PM
Nadal has only 4 non-clay Grand Slam titles. How many non-clay Slams did Sampras have? How many non-clay Slams did Federer have? It's all we need to know. Nadal was limited off clay.

Are you serious or this is some kind of joke?

Steve0904
10-25-2012, 04:03 PM
But he has many more non-clay Slams (4) than Federer has clay Slams (1) and more or less the same number of hardcourt Masters (5) as Federer has clay Masters (6). So yes, he is limited off clay but, in this case, 'limited' is a relative term, isn't it? He has still won each of the 2 hardcourt Slams and the grass Slam (Wimbledon) twice! So he is less limited on non-clay surfaces than Federer is on clay!

I agree that Nadal is not really "limited" off clay, that said if he does come back he has to win more events off clay IMO. 7 out of 11 slams at RG is too high a percentage if we are to put Nadal up there with Federer. Also the whole non clay slam comparison you made there would be great if it wasn't for the fact that you're counting 3 slams for Nadal and only 1 for Fed. That would be like me saying Federer has more HC slams than Nadal has on clay, but it would be unfair since there are 2 HC slams, and only 1 on clay.

Mike Sams
10-25-2012, 04:04 PM
But he has many more non-clay Slams (4) than Federer has clay Slams (1) and more or less the same number of hardcourt Masters (5) as Federer has clay Masters (6). So yes, he is limited off clay but, in this case, 'limited' is a relative term, isn't it? He has still won each of the 2 hardcourt Slams and the grass Slam (Wimbledon) twice! So he is less limited on non-clay surfaces than Federer is on clay!

True but like Nadal, other spanish players including Ferrer have improved on all surfaces. David Ferrer has done a fantastic run at both the US Open (SF 2007 and SF 2012) and the AO (SF 2011) and Wimbledon (QF 2012). The surfaces aren't so different nowadays. Regardless, Nadal is a great player but Sampras and Federer have shown more talent on grass and hardcourts than Nadal has looking at their achievements. Nadal is the greatest clay court player in history.

BauerAlmeida
10-25-2012, 04:06 PM
True but like Nadal, other spanish players including Ferrer have improved on all surfaces. David Ferrer has done a fantastic run at both the US Open (SF 2007 and SF 2012) and the AO (SF 2011) and Wimbledon (QF 2012). The surfaces aren't so different nowadays. Regardless, Nadal is a great player but Sampras and Federer have shown more talent on grass and hardcourts than Nadal has looking at their achievements. Nadal is the greatest clay court player in history.

Nadal is a lot better on grass or hard than Sampras on clay.

And he is far more dominant on clay than Sampras and Federer were on grass. Both have 7 slams at their best surface. With the difference that Nadal only lost there ONCE and will probably add a few more wins there.

Mike Sams
10-25-2012, 04:08 PM
It doesn't matter about the surfaces to me. it is all about the titles. I am very proud of what Rafa has won and when he wins a title it makes me happy. It has all ended now. Rafa has quenched his thirst with titles. He is bored with winning titles and tennis. It ended very prematurely. The Federer fans are the lucky ones. He is still around and he has given his fans so much joy over the years and he loves playing and his fans have a wonderful champion to cherish. I envy them. Roger stays away from injuries and has good mental and physical powers.

How are Federer fans lucky? Federer broke just about every record in tennis WHILE Nadal was playing tennis. Federer didn't win titles when Nadal was retired from the game. :lol:
The worst thing that happened to Nadal was the rise of Novak Djokovic. The best thing that happened to Nadal was the death of Djokovic's grandfather.

tennisaddict
10-25-2012, 04:10 PM
C'mon guys. I am not a Nadal fan. But have some respect for him. This guy played a awesome French Open 2012, defeating a mighty strong Djokovic, just 2 weeks prior to the Rosol loss.

Even if he is not going to be able to come back, this guy has won 11 majors and is at age 26. Wouldnt you give him some time for him to think over what he wants to do with his career.

Getting sloshed at the party is wrong ? Or taking a 5 month break is crazy ? If Hewitt , Haas and Nalbandian can come back after injuries and play well for years together, Nadal can't ?

Mike Sams
10-25-2012, 04:14 PM
C'mon guys. I am not a Nadal fan. But have some respect for him. This guy played a awesome French Open 2012, defeating a mighty strong Djokovic, just 2 weeks prior to the Rosol loss.

Even if he is not going to be able to come back, this guy has won 11 majors and is at age 26. Wouldnt you give him some time for him to think over what he wants to do with his career.

Getting sloshed at the party is wrong ? Or taking a 5 month break is crazy ? If Hewitt , Haas and Nalbandian can come back after injuries and play well for years together, Nadal can't ?

None of those 3 competed or were expected to compete for Slams after injury (or before it). People are expecting much much much more from Nadal than the likes of Hewitt, Haas and Nalbandian. :lol:
And Djokovic played his worst clay season in years. He was actually below even his 2009 level.

Clarky21
10-25-2012, 04:16 PM
Are you serious or this is some kind of joke?



He's a troll. Mike Shams craps on Nadal for not winning enough off of clay,but makes excuses for Sampras,who never won RG,or even got a sniff of a final there. I laughed when I saw his quoted post because of how much BS he managed to pack into one post on here.

I also never knew that only winning 4 non-clay slams,or winning 4 slams period wasn't good enough. Lol.


Oh,and Nadal has more slams off of his favorite surface than ******* has off of his. What do you say to that,Mike Shams?

Gonzo_style
10-25-2012, 04:16 PM
None of those 3 competed or were expected to compete for Slams after injury (or before it). People are expecting much much much more from Nadal than the likes of Hewitt, Haas and Nalbandian. :lol:
And Djokovic played his worst clay season in years. He was actually below even his 2009 level.

This year was Djokovic second best "clay season" in his career!

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 04:17 PM
Rafa has had months to decide to retire. Why take so long to make a decision that will give him ultimate happiness? Remember how he was saying last year that he is fed up with the tour? The retirement choice is simple for him. The sooner he says it the quicker he can forget about his tennis career that made him so unhappy.

Steve0904
10-25-2012, 04:17 PM
C'mon guys. I am not a Nadal fan. But have some respect for him. This guy played a awesome French Open 2012, defeating a mighty strong Djokovic, just 2 weeks prior to the Rosol loss.

Even if he is not going to be able to come back, this guy has won 11 majors and is at age 26. Wouldnt you give him some time for him to think over what he wants to do with his career.

Getting sloshed at the party is wrong ? Or taking a 5 month break is crazy ? If Hewitt , Haas and Nalbandian can come back after injuries and play well for years together, Nadal can't ?

I agree with what you said. I respect Nadal. But you have to remember that you can't really compare a Nadal comeback to any of the 3 you mentioned. The other 3 can come back, and string a few good results together in non slam events for the most part, but if Nadal comes back nobody will be satisfied with 3rd or 4th round results, not even Rafa himself.

RAFA2005RG
10-25-2012, 04:17 PM
I agree with you somewhat. I too think he's not coming back,and that he should stop stringing us along and just come out with it. The incompetence from his team is mind blowing.


I also think he is enjoying life without tennis. He partied it up last night at the JCF retirement party so much that he got so sloshed he had to be helped back to the hotel by Pico and Feli. Lol. Sounds like he's having a good time to me.

I'm making a bet with you that when Rafa plays the 2013 Australian Open you and your Ms Nadal will never post again. Thanks, bye.

Gonzo_style
10-25-2012, 04:18 PM
He's a troll. Mike Shams craps on Nadal for not winning enough off of clay,but makes excuses for Sampras,who never won RG,or even got a sniff of a final there. I laughed when I saw his quoted post because of how much BS he managed to pack into one post on here.

I also never knew that only winning 4 non-clay slams,or winning 4 slams period wasn't good enough. Lol.


Oh,and Nadal has more slams off of his favorite surface than ******* has off of his. What do you say to that,Mike Shams?

But RAFA2005RG/6:1 6:3 6:0 thinks that you and Mike Sams are the same person! :)

Clarky21
10-25-2012, 04:19 PM
C'mon guys. I am not a Nadal fan. But have some respect for him. This guy played a awesome French Open 2012, defeating a mighty strong Djokovic, just 2 weeks prior to the Rosol loss.

Even if he is not going to be able to come back, this guy has won 11 majors and is at age 26. Wouldnt you give him some time for him to think over what he wants to do with his career.

Getting sloshed at the party is wrong ? Or taking a 5 month break is crazy ? If Hewitt , Haas and Nalbandian can come back after injuries and play well for years together, Nadal can't ?



Nobody said it was wrong,but I have noticed that he does this with a frequency these days. Nothing wrong with partying sometimes,but making a habit of it is far from a good thing. Especially if you're an elite athlete.


Those guys are not top players contending for slams. I think they have 1 title between them at the moment. Nadal being out this long is horrible for him,and won't help him at all in the long run.

Clarky21
10-25-2012, 04:21 PM
But RAFA2005RG/6:1 6:3 6:0 thinks that you and Mike Sams are the same person! :)



No way. Mike Shams is on my ignore list,and has been for a long time. ********* is just mad because I,along with many others,have called him out for having a 100 different accounts on here. I have one account and one account only.

Mike Sams
10-25-2012, 04:22 PM
He's a troll. Mike Shams craps on Nadal for not winning enough off of clay,but makes excuses for Sampras,who never won RG,or even got a sniff of a final there. I laughed when I saw his quoted post because of how much BS he managed to pack into one post on here.

I also never knew that only winning 4 non-clay slams,or winning 4 slams period wasn't good enough. Lol.


Oh,and Nadal has more slams off of his favorite surface than ******* has off of his. What do you say to that,Mike Shams?

Nadal has 4 non-clay Slams. Djokovic has 5 non-clay Slams.

veroniquem
10-25-2012, 04:22 PM
Why are you obsessed with Nadal and his results off clay? Yes, Federer and Sampras have more titles on HC, and what Nadal needs to do, hang himself for that?

For those who are interested, here are some stats for the top 4 by # of different events won and by surface:

Federer has won 27 different events:
12 Tier 1 = 4 slams, 7 masters, WTF
15 minor = 5 500, 10 250
20 on hard/carpet, 5 on clay and 2 on grass.

Nadal: 21 events:
11 tier 1 = 4 slams, 6 masters, Olympics
10 minor = 5 500, 5 250
9 on hard, 10 on clay, 2 on grass

Djoko: 20 events:
11 tier 1 = 3 slams, 7 masters, WTF
9 minor = 4 500, 5 250
14 on hard, 5 on clay, 1 on grass

Murray: 16 events:
6 tier 1 = 1 slam, 4 masters, Olympics
10 minor = 3 500, 7 250
14 on hard/carpet, 0 on clay, 2 on grass


Rafa doesn't come across as such a die-hard specialist in the sense that he has won almost as many events on hard as he has on clay, not the same # of times of course but still, his perf is much more balanced between surfaces than the other 3. Fed and Djoko are much more heavily slanted toward hard court than Nadal is toward clay. Anyway, the only one of the 4 I would call a clear surface specialist is Murray because of his 0 on clay. The other 3 guys have won something on every surface.
It's interesting none of them have won both WTF and Olympics. Agassi is still the only one to have done that (on top of his 4 slams and 7 masters) keeping his status as most versatile player in open era alive for now.

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 04:25 PM
Nobody said it was wrong,but I have noticed that he does this with a frequency these days. Nothing wrong with partying sometimes,but making a habit of it is far from a good thing. Especially if you're an elite athlete.


Those guys are not top players contending for slams. I think they have 1 title between them at the moment. Nadal being out this long is horrible for him,and won't help him at all in the long run.

Exactly, this is how much Rafa looks after himself now. He is no longer thinking as a tennis player he is a party prince. His tennis life is finished and that is what he has wanted. He has put on weight too.

Mike Sams
10-25-2012, 04:25 PM
Rafa has had months to decide to retire. Why take so long to make a decision that will give him ultimate happiness? Remember how he was saying last year that he is fed up with the tour? The retirement choice is simple for him. The sooner he says it the quicker he can forget about his tennis career that made him so unhappy.

Retirement is a big decision. Nadal has nothing else in his life other than tennis. It's all he's ever done. To leave the sport, he would have nothing else to turn to. No legitimate career. No big money opportunities. Nadal isn't making any money playing golf and poker in his pastime. Those aren't real career choices for him. There's only so much sunbathing, surfing and playing beach soccer with friends that one can do before he gets fed up. Outside of tennis, Nadal does not have any kind of career.

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 04:28 PM
I agree with what you said. I respect Nadal. But you have to remember that you can't really compare a Nadal comeback to any of the 3 you mentioned. The other 3 can come back, and string a few good results together in non slam events for the most part, but if Nadal comes back nobody will be satisfied with 3rd or 4th round results, not even Rafa himself.

Rafa isn't bothered about tennis anymore. He doesn't want to win more titles. He just wants to party every night and sleep during the day.

Gonzo_style
10-25-2012, 04:28 PM
Nadal has nothing else in his life other than tennis.

LOL you're sure about that??? :)

tennisaddict
10-25-2012, 04:29 PM
How do we know Nadal may not be satisfied with his career playing mainly on clay henceforth and doing part time duty on other surfaces ?

The guy is super dedicated when he is on, so I dont see why a comeback is ruled out.

Only fans want him to win 7 more French Open. All he may be interested is another 4-5 years of play , getting a major or two in the process and a few clay masters. Anything wrong with that ?

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 04:30 PM
Retirement is a big decision. Nadal has nothing else in his life other than tennis. It's all he's ever done. To leave the sport, he would have nothing else to turn to. No legitimate career. No big money opportunities. Nadal isn't making any money playing golf and poker in his pastime. Those aren't real career choices for him. There's only so much sunbathing, surfing and playing beach soccer with friends that one can do before he gets fed up. Outside of tennis, Nadal does not have any kind of career.

He has his playboy lifestyle. That is what he likes doing now. Rafa doesn't even think about tennis. He hates it!. He is rich for life so doesn't need a 'job' of any kind. Rafa willl just be a play boy, beach man from now on. This life is heaven to him. May he enjoy it.

Mike Sams
10-25-2012, 04:34 PM
LOL you're sure about that??? :)

Yup. I'm sure about that. 5 months of partying, golfing, and surfing under the hot sun aren't viable career options. What's he going to be doing 1 year or 2 years from now? Still diving off his yacht with his friends and playing beach soccer? He's going to be doing that full-time? :lol: He doesn't have any education. He's got no talent for professional golf. Poker is a silly pastime. What's he got outside of tennis? And when he retires, what's he worth to any sponsor or fan? Nobody cares about retired athletes. They're not in demand.

Gonzo_style
10-25-2012, 04:36 PM
.

Only fans want him to win 7 more French Open. All he may be interested is another 4-5 years of play , getting a major or two in the process and a few clay masters. Anything wrong with that ?

Nothing wrong with that, you got the point! Nadal didn't care what Mike Sams and others thinks!

Mike Sams
10-25-2012, 04:36 PM
He has his playboy lifestyle. That is what he likes doing now. Rafa doesn't even think about tennis. He hates it!. He is rich for life so doesn't need a 'job' of any kind. Rafa willl just be a play boy, beach man from now on. This life is heaven to him. May he enjoy it.

If he hates tennis, why was he so overjoyed holding the trophy? Why did he go to the brink of death to win matches :lol:

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 04:39 PM
Yup. I'm sure about that. 5 months of partying, golfing, and surfing under the hot sun aren't viable career options. What's he going to be doing 1 year or 2 years from now? Still diving off his yacht with his friends and playing beach soccer? He's going to be doing that full-time? :lol: He doesn't have any education. He's got no talent for professional golf. Poker is a silly pastime. What's he got outside of tennis? And when he retires, what's he worth to any sponsor or fan? Nobody cares about retired athletes. They're not in demand.

Rafa will never tire of this Mallorcan party island lifestyle. It is in his blood. That is why I envy the Federer fans, he is so much more classy than Rafa.

Gonzo_style
10-25-2012, 04:39 PM
If he hates tennis, why was he so overjoyed holding the trophy? Why did he go to the brink of death to win matches :lol:

I don't know, maybe because he is a professional athlete! :confused:

Mike Sams
10-25-2012, 04:40 PM
Nothing wrong with that, you got the point! Nadal didn't care what Mike Sams and others thinks!

I don't care what Nadal does with his life. All I'm saying is that he's enjoying a rush right now of freedom. What will he be doing 1 year or 2 years from now? How about 5 years from now? Sponsors and endorsements will be finished for him when he announces his retirement. The glory, accolades and prize money will be over. That's how retirement works. You retire from the public eye and the sport. Fans stop caring very quickly. Out of sight is out of mind.

Mike Sams
10-25-2012, 04:41 PM
I don't know, maybe because he is a professional athlete! :confused:

Is that all there is to it? Why did he run into the stands and hug and kiss his family when he won RG? Why did he roll over and swim in the mud when he won Wimbledon? Why were there tears of joy when he won the US Open? And yet he hates tennis? :lol: :lol:

Mike Sams
10-25-2012, 04:42 PM
Rafa will never tire of this Mallorcan party island lifestyle. It is in his blood. That is why I envy the Federer fans, he is so much more classy than Rafa.

the good thing is that Nadal doesn't have to deal with Uncle Toni again. Maybe that's all the more reason to retire.

Steve0904
10-25-2012, 04:42 PM
For those who are interested, here are some stats for the top 4 by # of different events won and by surface:

Federer has won 27 different events:
12 Tier 1 = 4 slams, 7 masters, WTF
15 minor = 5 500, 10 250
20 on hard/carpet, 5 on clay and 2 on grass.

Nadal: 21 events:
11 tier 1 = 4 slams, 6 masters, Olympics
10 minor = 5 500, 5 250
9 on hard, 10 on clay, 2 on grass

Djoko: 20 events:
11 tier 1 = 3 slams, 7 masters, WTF
9 minor = 4 500, 5 250
14 on hard, 5 on clay, 1 on grass

Murray: 16 events:
6 tier 1 = 1 slam, 4 masters, Olympics
10 minor = 3 500, 7 250
14 on hard/carpet, 0 on clay, 2 on grass


Rafa doesn't come across as such a die-hard specialist in the sense that he has won almost as many events on hard as he has on clay, not the same # of times of course but still, his perf is much more balanced between surfaces than the other 3. Fed and Djoko are much more heavily slanted toward hard court than Nadal is toward clay. Anyway, the only one of the 4 I would call a clear surface specialist is Murray because of his 0 on clay. The other 3 guys have won something on every surface.
It's interesting none of them have won both WTF and Olympics. Agassi is still the only one to have done that (on top of his 4 slams and 7 masters) keeping his status as most versatile player in open era alive for now.

Thanks for that. Was a nice read. Although I agree Nadal is not a surface specialist, there are a few factors to consider. The biggest one being of course that there are a lot more HC events than there are clay, which is why Nadal's event distribution is pretty even. In fact if Nadal hadn't played smaller events on clay in 2005 he'd have won more events on HC than he has on clay.

Gonzo_style
10-25-2012, 04:45 PM
I don't care what Nadal does with his life. All I'm saying is that he's enjoying a rush right now of freedom. What will he be doing 1 year or 2 years from now? How about 5 years from now? Sponsors and endorsements will be finished for him when he announces his retirement. The glory, accolades and prize money will be over. That's how retirement works. You retire from the public eye and the sport. Fans stop caring very quickly. Out of sight is out of mind.

He will work the same or similar things like other tennis greats...He's not glory or money hunter!

NadalAgassi
10-25-2012, 04:46 PM
This thread is hilarious. If Nadal is limited off of clay than that means that by those standards Djokovic is a limited and average player period, and Murray, Roddick, Hewitt, Safin, and anyone else who has come around the least 10+ years outside of Federer, are total jokes. After all Nadal has won only 1 less slam off clay as Djokovic has on all surfaces put together, as Djokovic has on all surfaces today, while Murray, Hewitt, and Roddick combine for the same # of slams in all 3 careers combined as Nadal has managed "off of clay". I wont even get started into some of the wannabees like Berdych who Mike Sams loves and builds up as if he is some great talent and player, yet who Nadal chasms all over in everyway off of clay both when they play and in career achievements. Even on indoors Nadal's career puts Berdych in the dust, and did so to Berdych when they last met indoors.

Mike Sams
10-25-2012, 04:48 PM
He will work the same or similar things like other tennis greats...He's not glory or money hunter!

How do you figure? He was hunting for glory in his mission to become #1 and win Grand Slams. He is a money hunter too as he plays big money exhos. What are you on about? :lol:

Clarky21
10-25-2012, 04:48 PM
He will work the same or similar things like other tennis greats...He's not glory or money hunter!



Lame Pokerstars,Quely's and Bacardi sponsorships say otherwise.

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 04:49 PM
If he hates tennis, why was he so overjoyed holding the trophy? Why did he go to the brink of death to win matches :lol:

I know what you are saying. I used to think Rafa was very passionate for tennis then last year he said how much he was hating it and that changed my whole view of him. Also, he has done all these off court activities. Now that he has been away for ages he realises how nice it is away from stressful tennis. He loves the partying etc. Rafa lost a lot of his youth to tennis that he still talks about it. This is his freedom time and he is going to grab it with both hands and have it forever. Sure the sponsors will leave him but he will always be a star to his Mallorcan crowd. So he will get money from organisations on the island and he will get away from the annoying fans who don't give him a minute's piece on the tour. Pure Heaven! :)

Mike Sams
10-25-2012, 04:49 PM
Lame Pokerstars,Quely's and Bacardi sponsorships say otherwise.

and hardcourt tennis exhos which he claims are responsible for his broken body. :lol:

Mike Sams
10-25-2012, 04:52 PM
I know what you are saying. I used to think Rafa was very passionate for tennis then last year he said how much he was hating it and that changed my whole view of him. Also, he has done all these off court activities. Now that he has been away for ages he realises how nice it is away from stressful tennis. He loves the partying etc. Rafa lost a lot of his youth to tennis that he still talks about it. This is his freedom time and he is going to grab it with both hands and have it forever. Sure the sponsors will leave him but he will always be a star to his Mallorcan crowd. So he will get money from organisations on the island and he will get away from the annoying fans who don't give him a minute's piece on the tour. Pure Heaven! :)

He didn't hate tennis. He hates Uncle Toni but won't ever say it. He hated losing to Djokovic in 2011 which upset him after the fantastic 2010 and recapturing of #1. He began losing his passion. Why else was he vocal about a 2 year ranking system?

veroniquem
10-25-2012, 04:52 PM
Thanks for that. Was a nice read. Although I agree Nadal is not a surface specialist, there are a few factors to consider. The biggest one being of course that there are a lot more HC events than there are clay, which is why Nadal's event distribution is pretty even. In fact if Nadal hadn't played smaller events on clay in 2005 he'd have won more events on HC than he has on clay.
Yes, I know, you're right to point that out. Still, I thought those stats were pretty interesting. Interesting also that Djoko and Fed have both won 5 different events on clay. 2 of them are masters for Djoko and master + slam for Fed. (I counted Hamburg/Madrid as 3rd clay master and Madrid ind./Shanghai as 1st fall master, so, 1 event in both cases since there are always 9 masters in a year). So 3 out of the 5 on clay were minor events. You see, Fed and Djoko played them too!

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 04:55 PM
But, Mike Sams Now that Rafa has lost that passion it will never be rekindled and he has had a great career. Nothing left to motivate him. He has done a Bjorg on us.

veroniquem
10-25-2012, 04:58 PM
This thread is hilarious. If Nadal is limited off of clay than that means that by those standards Djokovic is a limited and average player period, and Murray, Roddick, Hewitt, Safin, and anyone else who has come around the least 10+ years outside of Federer, are total jokes. After all Nadal has won only 1 less slam off clay as Djokovic has on all surfaces put together, as Djokovic has on all surfaces today, while Murray, Hewitt, and Roddick combine for the same # of slams in all 3 careers combined as Nadal has managed "off of clay". I wont even get started into some of the wannabees like Berdych who Mike Sams loves and builds up as if he is some great talent and player, yet who Nadal chasms all over in everyway off of clay both when they play and in career achievements. Even on indoors Nadal's career puts Berdych in the dust, and did so to Berdych when they last met indoors.

Yes, exactly. It's rare enough to win all 4 slams and Nadal has the Olympics on top which wasn't on clay. Compared to that, the vast majority of players are super specialists (including big names like Borg or Sampras).

BauerAlmeida
10-25-2012, 05:01 PM
Retirement is a big decision. Nadal has nothing else in his life other than tennis. It's all he's ever done. To leave the sport, he would have nothing else to turn to. No legitimate career. No big money opportunities. Nadal isn't making any money playing golf and poker in his pastime. Those aren't real career choices for him. There's only so much sunbathing, surfing and playing beach soccer with friends that one can do before he gets fed up. Outside of tennis, Nadal does not have any kind of career.


No money opportunities?? LOL, he is a multimillionaire, he doesn't need any more money. Plus he can still make money by advertising, sponsors. Do you think Michael Jordan isn't making money anymore??

Plus he is 26, not 40. He can start anything he wants now. And he will have all the time to focus on it.

I don't think he will retire anyway.

Ms Nadal
10-25-2012, 05:03 PM
Why do a lot of people think Rafa is going to return? He has gone! I am even starting to forget how he looks! :shock:

Steve0904
10-25-2012, 05:06 PM
Yes, exactly. It's rare enough to win all 4 slams and Nadal has the Olympics on top which wasn't on clay. Compared to that, the vast majority of players are super specialists (including big names like Borg or Sampras).

I wouldn't call Borg a specialist. Remember the Olympics and the AO barely existed when Borg played, and he did make 4 finals at the USO, so although he didn't win it he certainly could play on it. Plus he had a good record at the YEC which was on carpet I believe.

Talker
10-25-2012, 05:07 PM
Nadal's career hasn't been ruined by injuries.
He doesn't get injured hardly at all.

Most of his problems are just over use of his body and a knee condition that went away for about two years.

He has chances to rest but hasn't done so and even plays exo's right after complaining, which he does a lot.

90's Clay
10-25-2012, 05:10 PM
How are Federer fans lucky? Federer broke just about every record in tennis WHILE Nadal was playing tennis. Federer didn't win titles when Nadal was retired from the game. :lol:
The worst thing that happened to Nadal was the rise of Novak Djokovic. The best thing that happened to Nadal was the death of Djokovic's grandfather.

Really? Hmm.. Seems like when Fed breaks the records or win the big matches (2009) (this years Wimbledon), Nadal wasn't part of the picture:)

Mustard
10-25-2012, 05:39 PM
And Djokovic played his worst clay season in years. He was actually below even his 2009 level.

Ridiculous. Djokovic had a far better clay-court season in 2012 than he did in 2010. If it hadn't been for Nadal, Djokovic would have won Monte Carlo, Rome and the French Open in 2012, and he'd be lauded up there with the all-time greats.

And what was wrong with Djokovic's 2009 clay-court level? He pushed Nadal hard in Monte Carlo, Rome and Madrid, even though he lost all 3 of those matches.

NadalAgassi
10-25-2012, 06:09 PM
Djokovic is something like 2-11 lifetime vs Nadal on clay now, 0-4 at Roland Garros and 1-12 in sets (lol), and one is the clay court GOAT and the other isnt even top 50 all time on clay. Djokovic has reached ONE French Open final in his career, his clay court greatness is roughly on par with say Alberto Berasetegui at this point. So only in an alterior planet is Nadal's success on clay dependent in anyway on Djokovic's form. In fact the reverse is true, Djokovic needed Nadal to play his worst clay season since 2004 for Djokovic to finally get a couple wins over Nadal on clay, and he needed his own superman year of form he will probably never duplicate again in conjuction with it. As for Djokovic in 2009, that was probably Djokovic's 2nd best year of clay tennis ever, and he still didnt post a win over Nadal on clay in 3 tries, and lost to some nobody at the French Open (atleast Nadal lost to a 2 time slam finalist in his worst ever defeat there that year).

drakulie
10-25-2012, 06:10 PM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m99jtuD2pJ1qf5y35o1_500.png

cc0509
10-25-2012, 10:43 PM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m99jtuD2pJ1qf5y35o1_500.png


LOL, how subtle! ;)

Tennis_Hands
10-25-2012, 11:09 PM
Yes, exactly. It's rare enough to win all 4 slams and Nadal has the Olympics on top which wasn't on clay. Compared to that, the vast majority of players are super specialists (including big names like Borg or Sampras).


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAA.

Good one, Vero! Keep them coming!

Big_Dangerous
10-25-2012, 11:24 PM
NOTE: This is NOT a Nadal bashing thread.

Clearly Nadal's career is not as bad (injury wise) as players like Haas, Nalbandian, Hewitt etc. But overall he has probably been out of the game for 1 to 1 1/2 years. So does he need to stay out of the game longer in order for his career to become marred?

Even if he never won a Grand Slam again which probably won't happen, he would still have had a hall of fame career. And he will always be known as Fed's kryptonite, especially in the slams.

Tennis_Hands
10-25-2012, 11:36 PM
Even if he never won a Grand Slam again which probably won't happen, he would still have had a hall of fame career. And he will always be known as Fed's kryptonite, especially in the slams.

He will win more Majors.

But, he will always be remembered as a surface player and a player, who didn't capitalize on his potential (both as a quality player and "Federer's kryptonite").

Sabratha
10-25-2012, 11:38 PM
Nadal will be back, I just hope he's back in time to defend his final at the Australian Open. :(

PrinceMoron
10-25-2012, 11:43 PM
For those who are interested, here are some stats for the top 4 by # of different events won and by surface:

Federer has won 27 different events:
12 Tier 1 = 4 slams, 7 masters, WTF
15 minor = 5 500, 10 250
20 on hard/carpet, 5 on clay and 2 on grass.

Nadal: 21 events:
11 tier 1 = 4 slams, 6 masters, Olympics
10 minor = 5 500, 5 250
9 on hard, 10 on clay, 2 on grass

Djoko: 20 events:
11 tier 1 = 3 slams, 7 masters, WTF
9 minor = 4 500, 5 250
14 on hard, 5 on clay, 1 on grass

Murray: 16 events:
6 tier 1 = 1 slam, 4 masters, Olympics
10 minor = 3 500, 7 250
14 on hard/carpet, 0 on clay, 2 on grass


Rafa doesn't come across as such a die-hard specialist in the sense that he has won almost as many events on hard as he has on clay, not the same # of times of course but still, his perf is much more balanced between surfaces than the other 3. Fed and Djoko are much more heavily slanted toward hard court than Nadal is toward clay. Anyway, the only one of the 4 I would call a clear surface specialist is Murray because of his 0 on clay. The other 3 guys have won something on every surface.
It's interesting none of them have won both WTF and Olympics. Agassi is still the only one to have done that (on top of his 4 slams and 7 masters) keeping his status as most versatile player in open era alive for now.

Make that 20, Olympics tier 1!?
Seriously, tier 1? Since when?

Tennis_Hands
10-26-2012, 12:26 AM
Make that 20, Olympics tier 1!?
Seriously, tier 1? Since when?

Since Nadal won it, of course.

To quote the immortal NSK:

“I never said the Gold Medal was more valuable than 6 WTFs. I said the Gold Medal is valuable now because Nadal has it. If Nadal didn't have it, it wouldn't be such a big deal.”

Ms Nadal
10-26-2012, 01:00 AM
Rafa doesn't want to win any more slams. He has done a Bjorg and walked away from the game. Look at him, can't even drag himself to the practice court, this is really how bad it has got for him. His knees are fine now, it has been ages that knee must be better now. Injury is no longer the problem he just does not want to play tennis anymore. I have kinda excepted this. He is into partying now, tennis and Rafa have parted company. I think his fans need to accept it. I spent so much time following Rafa and he has just left us with nothing. I will never follow another player, they always disappoint you. From now on I will be a neutral and watch tennis without any fan love and affection. No other player will get my heart again!

sbengte
10-26-2012, 01:37 AM
Rafa doesn't want to win any more slams. He has done a Bjorg and walked away from the game. Look at him, can't even drag himself to the practice court, this is really how bad it has got for him. His knees are fine now, it has been ages that knee must be better now. Injury is no longer the problem he just does not want to play tennis anymore. I have kinda excepted this. He is into partying now, tennis and Rafa have parted company. I think his fans need to accept it. I spent so much time following Rafa and he has just left us with nothing. I will never follow another player, they always disappoint you. From now on I will be a neutral and watch tennis without any fan love and affection. No other player will get my heart again!

Clarky 2.0 ? :shock:

Ms Nadal
10-26-2012, 01:42 AM
Clarky 2.0 ? :shock:

I ain't Clarky but she thinks like me that Rafa has left tennis. Me and her are brave enough to say it! Even though we are fans of Rafa.

NDFM
10-26-2012, 01:44 AM
Rafa doesn't want to win any more slams. He has done a Bjorg and walked away from the game. Look at him, can't even drag himself to the practice court, this is really how bad it has got for him. His knees are fine now, it has been ages that knee must be better now. Injury is no longer the problem he just does not want to play tennis anymore. I have kinda excepted this. He is into partying now, tennis and Rafa have parted company. I think his fans need to accept it. I spent so much time following Rafa and he has just left us with nothing. I will never follow another player, they always disappoint you. From now on I will be a neutral and watch tennis without any fan love and affection. No other player will get my heart again!

Ms Nadal don't be too surprised when Rafa returns, deep down you know he will come back

sbengte
10-26-2012, 01:44 AM
I ain't Clarky but she thinks like me that Rafa has left tennis. Me and her are brave enough to say it! Even though we are fans of Rafa.

You actually remind me of babette, one of the nicer Nadal fans who rarely ever posts here now.

Ms Nadal
10-26-2012, 01:46 AM
You actually remind me of babette, one of the nicer Nadal fans who rarely ever posts here now.

I don't know Babette, but I will watch out for them :)

Ms Nadal
10-26-2012, 01:49 AM
Ms Nadal don't be too surprised when Rafa returns, deep down you know he will come back

Of course deep down, I hope that Rafa comes back, I adore that man!. But, I am just trying not to get my hopes up and be able to deal with retirement if it does happen. Because, Rafa has been gone for too long for my liking and no practise! It doesn't fill me with any confidence. I hope that my fears are unfounded but until I see Rafa back on court I will think retirement is coming.

CMM
10-26-2012, 01:51 AM
Ms Nadal don't be too surprised when Rafa returns, deep down you know he will come back

She/He is a *******.

NDFM
10-26-2012, 01:53 AM
Of course, I hope that Rafa comes back, I adore that man!. But, I am just trying not to get my hopes up and be able to deal with retirement if it does happen. Because, Rafa has been gone for too long for my liking and no practice! It doesn't fill me with any confidence. I hope that my fears are unfounded but until I see Rafa back on court I will think retirement is coming.

Like you I'm not going to get my hopes up and when he returns I'm not going to expect too much from him, it will take a while for him to get back to the level he was at before this setback but getting back to that level may or may not happen so we'll see. For some reason I don't think he is retiring anytime soon

sbengte
10-26-2012, 01:54 AM
She/He is a *******.

Why would you say that ? :? From whatever I have seen so far, her posts seem genuine and she is not trying to play games pretending to be a Nadal fan.

Ms Nadal
10-26-2012, 02:01 AM
Why would you say that ? :? From whatever I have seen so far, her posts seem genuine and she is not trying to play games pretending to be a Nadal fan.

Thanks mate. At least you are sensible :).

CMM
10-26-2012, 02:04 AM
Why would you say that ? :? From whatever I have seen so far, her posts seem genuine and she is not trying to play games pretending to be a Nadal fan.

Sarcasm. .............

Sabratha
10-26-2012, 02:06 AM
When and where Nadal does return, and if his level does drop, he will still be a solid top eight tennis player. I doubt he would just leave after that loss, I thought he was about getting better and improving in order to keep winning? See: 2010.

underground
10-26-2012, 02:51 AM
NOTE: This is NOT a Nadal bashing thread.

Clearly Nadal's career is not as bad (injury wise) as players like Haas, Nalbandian, Hewitt etc. But overall he has probably been out of the game for 1 to 1 1/2 years. So does he need to stay out of the game longer in order for his career to become marred?

The amount of sarcasm in this forum...really.....

cc0509
10-26-2012, 03:22 AM
Why would you say that ? :? From whatever I have seen so far, her posts seem genuine and she is not trying to play games pretending to be a Nadal fan.

That is what you think! :?: Of course Ms Nadal is a poster pretending to be a Rafa fan, how could this be any more obvious?

Clarky21
10-26-2012, 04:19 AM
That is what you think! :?: Of course Ms Nadal is a poster pretending to be a Rafa fan, how could this be any more obvious?



I think so too. I thought before that Ms Nadal was another one of *********'s accounts,but I'm not sure who it is anymore. They are not a fan,though that much is obvious.

Ms Nadal
10-26-2012, 04:23 AM
Oh Clarky I thought me and you had some simailarities thinking Rafa isn't coming back but you are just like the others. I am sad to say. Anyway as I told Chrissti I am a huge Roger fan as he is the GOAT. I have said what everyone wanted. So may all this talk of who I support end. I am just a poster of tw, end of story. These samey comments are boring me. Lets change tack and just talk about the thread. Not about dissing the posters. I am Roger's biggest fan, now that is out, let's just discuss the threads

Clarky21
10-26-2012, 04:26 AM
Oh Clarky I thought me and you had some simailarities thinking Rafa isn't coming back but you are just like the others. I am sad to say. Anyway as I told Chrissti I am a huge Roger fan as he is the GOAT. I have said what everyone wanted. So may all this talk of who I support end. I am just a poster of tw, end of story. These sammie comments are boring me.



I'm not sure if he's coming back,and have made that clear many times on here. I just think you're a ******* on here with multiple accounts.. Lol.

Ms Nadal
10-26-2012, 04:29 AM
I'm not sure if he's coming back,and have made that clear many times on here. I just think you're a ******* on here with multiple accounts.. Lol.

Yes, I have confessed that now. Roger rules!

Clarky21
10-26-2012, 04:34 AM
Yes, I have confessed that now. Roger rules!


At least you've finally admitted it. :lol:

cc0509
10-26-2012, 04:49 AM
Oh Clarky I thought me and you had some simailarities thinking Rafa isn't coming back but you are just like the others. I am sad to say. Anyway as I told Chrissti I am a huge Roger fan as he is the GOAT. I have said what everyone wanted. So may all this talk of who I support end. I am just a poster of tw, end of story. These samey comments are boring me. Lets change tack and just talk about the thread. Not about dissing the posters. I am Roger's biggest fan, now that is out, let's just discuss the threads

So why did you deny many times on here that you were an imposter Nadal fan when any other poster with a brain called you out on this obvious fact?

cc0509
10-26-2012, 04:53 AM
I think so too. I thought before that Ms Nadal was another one of *********'s accounts,but I'm not sure who it is anymore. They are not a fan,though that much is obvious.

Yes, not sure if it is another Bullszilla imposter account or an imposter account from a Fed fan. Whatever the case may be, how creepy is it for a poster to have different aliases? Looney tunes.

tennisaddict
10-26-2012, 05:54 AM
Oh Clarky I thought me and you had some simailarities thinking Rafa isn't coming back but you are just like the others. I am sad to say. Anyway as I told Chrissti I am a huge Roger fan as he is the GOAT. I have said what everyone wanted. So may all this talk of who I support end. I am just a poster of tw, end of story. These samey comments are boring me. Lets change tack and just talk about the thread. Not about dissing the posters. I am Roger's biggest fan, now that is out, let's just discuss the threads

I still think Ms. Nadal is a HUGE Nadal fan, but disguising as a Roger fan, just to sully Roger and his fans.

The typical Roger fan is a 'straight shooter'. Does not create army of accounts to get across a point.

beast of mallorca
10-26-2012, 06:05 AM
I still think Ms. Nadal is a HUGE Nadal fan, but disguising as a Roger fan, just to sully Roger and his fans.

The typical Roger fan is a 'straight shooter'. Does not create army of accounts to get across a point.

Yah right. There were a number of Fedfans who made accounts as a Djokerfan during 2011 just so they can troll Nadal. There are a number of "typical" Roger fans alright :-?

reversef
10-26-2012, 06:56 AM
Yes, not sure if it is another Bullszilla imposter account or an imposter account from a Fed fan. Whatever the case may be, how creepy is it for a poster to have different aliases? Looney tunes.
Nah, it can't be *********. Or we have a bipolar troll. It's either a ******* trying another way to troll (infiltrating the enemy) or a 15 year old nadal fan who is unable to deal with the frustration at the moment.

cc0509
10-26-2012, 06:58 AM
I still think Ms. Nadal is a HUGE Nadal fan, but disguising as a Roger fan, just to sully Roger and his fans.

The typical Roger fan is a 'straight shooter'. Does not create army of accounts to get across a point.

Nope, other way around. Just the picture in his/her avatar of a stupidly grinning Nadal is enough to give the poster away. It is either a Fed fan, who posted under a different account before and got banned and has come back as a supposed Nadal fan as a joke, or it is a poster like Bullszilla trying to "create" yet another persona. Either way,why any poster would want to do this sort of thing and have multiple accounts is the question. Beyond nutty imo. In any case you can't really take anything this poster says seriously.

cc0509
10-26-2012, 07:02 AM
Nah, it can't be *********. Or we have a bipolar troll. It's either a ******* trying another way to troll (infiltrating the enemy) or a 15 year old nadal fan who is unable to deal with the frustration at the moment..

********* could indeed be a bipolar troll. It is either him or more likely a Fed fan trying to pretend that he is a Nadal fan. But he was called out on it, so he is now saying he is really a Fed fan. Either way how can anybody take this poster seriously after all this nonsense.

Mike Sams
10-26-2012, 07:18 AM
Really? Hmm.. Seems like when Fed breaks the records or win the big matches (2009) (this years Wimbledon), Nadal wasn't part of the picture:)

That's because Nadal was wiped out in the 2nd round by Lucas Rosol at this year's Wimbledon. Do you think Nadal has a right to the finals in every Slam? You have to earn your spot.:) Nadal played the same tournaments that Federer won with the exception of Wimbledon 2009. Why is it Federer's fault that Nadal doesn't have the talent to beat a #100 ranked player? :lol:

Mike Sams
10-26-2012, 07:23 AM
No money opportunities?? LOL, he is a multimillionaire, he doesn't need any more money. Plus he can still make money by advertising, sponsors. Do you think Michael Jordan isn't making money anymore??

Plus he is 26, not 40. He can start anything he wants now. And he will have all the time to focus on it.

I don't think he will retire anyway.

Nadal won't make even a fraction of the money in retirement that he will make as an active player. Sponsors don't go after retired players. Jordan is a whole different thing. He was a brand name and he played a sport which was a million times more popular than tennis in the States.

Mike Sams
10-26-2012, 07:32 AM
Nadal started losing his passion when Djokovic routinely beat him in numerous finals. Nadal began getting some momentum back in the rivalry in Monte Carlo(where else :lol:), followed by Rome and then finally Roland Garros. Nadal had some confidence back and looked strong for Wimbledon and unfortunately ran into Superman Rosol who was serving like a demon.
That loss crushed Nadal emotionally. He couldn't deal with it.

Ms Nadal
10-26-2012, 08:08 AM
I think you have a point, Mike Sams. That Rosol match got to Rafa in a big way. What makes me sick about Rosol is the fact that he did nothing after knocking Rafa out. He just went out tamely. I have more respect for Sod as he got to the RG final after beating Rafa in 2009. Although, I hated Sod so much at the time.

90's Clay
10-26-2012, 09:30 AM
I dont think Nadal lost his passion.. Hes just broken down physically. Physically Nadal hash't been the same since 2010. (When his prime ended). Just about every attribute of his game as declined since then. His grass game decline big time, hard court game declined (though not as big as his grass game did IMO), hes still a beast on clay but not what he was from 2005-2010

Mike Sams
10-26-2012, 09:35 AM
I think you have a point, Mike Sams. That Rosol match got to Rafa in a big way. What makes me sick about Rosol is the fact that he did nothing after knocking Rafa out. He just went out tamely. I have more respect for Sod as he got to the RG final after beating Rafa in 2009. Although, I hated Sod so much at the time.

Nadal seemed like he had a genuine dislike for Rosol. He was really agitated by Rosol during that match. I don't know how much of it had to do with Rosol's level of play but something about Rosol's heavy breathing and jumping around while Nadal was trying to serve. Nadal bodychecked him during the changeover and it was deliberate. Nadal probably wanted to take him down a peg or something. The loss eats at Nadal. Likely to the point where he's frustrated with the loss and with the sport in general (too many events in the season).

TheFifthSet
10-26-2012, 09:37 AM
I dont think Nadal lost his passion.. Hes just broken down physically. Physically Nadal hash't been the same since 2010. (When his prime ended). Just about every attribute of his game as declined since then. His grass game decline big time, hard court game declined (though not as big as his grass game did IMO), hes still a beast on clay but not what he was from 2005-2010

Nonsense. He was far better on HC and Grass in 2011 than 2010. Just look at all the players he beat. Nadal never, over the course of 4 slams, beat such tough competition. Ever. In his entire career. At RG he beat Soderling, Murray, Federer. Wimby it was Delpo and Murray. USO it was Roddick and Murray. AO it was Berdych and Federer. And he beat other tough players in that period, such as Fish, Nalby etc. Disclaimer: NONE of these guys even took him to five sets. He faced Murray 3 times, Federer twice, as well as Sod, Delpo, Berdych etc. They all got wiped out handily. He just couldn't beat one guy. That's it. He dominated everyone else to an extent he pretty much never had before.

Look at the players he beat on HC and Grass in 2011 and early 2012 and compare it to 2010. It's no comparison. It's just Djokovic that raised his level.

Mike Sams
10-26-2012, 09:39 AM
I think you have a point, Mike Sams. That Rosol match got to Rafa in a big way. What makes me sick about Rosol is the fact that he did nothing after knocking Rafa out. He just went out tamely. I have more respect for Sod as he got to the RG final after beating Rafa in 2009. Although, I hated Sod so much at the time.

wimbledon is the tournament where ANYBODY can get upset. Berdych went out to Gulbis, Nadal went out to Rosol, Federer was basically 2 points away from going out to Benneteau.
Federer almost got knocked out in the first round of wimbledon in 2010 by Falla, and Nadal had to fight hard in back to back 5 set wars against Haase and Petschener in that same tournament. Upsets are always likely in Wimbledon.

Mike Sams
10-26-2012, 09:42 AM
Nonsense. He was far better on HC and Grass in 2011 than 2010. Just look at all the players he beat. Nadal never, over the course of 4 slams, beat such tough competition. Ever. In his entire career. At RG he beat Soderling, Murray, Federer. Wimby it was Delpo and Murray. USO it was Roddick and Murray. AO it was Berdych and Federer. And he beat other tough players in that period, such as Fish, Nalby etc. Disclaimer: NONE of these guys even took him to five sets. He faced Murray 3 times, Federer twice, as well as Sod, Delpo, Berdych etc. They all got wiped out handily. He just couldn't beat one guy. That's it. He dominated everyone else to an extent he pretty much never had before.

Yep, Nadal had a fantastic 2011 run. He just had no answers for Super-Nole. Nor did anybody else. Much like nobody had answers for Super-Rafa during the spring-autumn of 2008.

PrinceMoron
10-26-2012, 11:55 AM
Nadal seemed like he had a genuine dislike for Rosol. He was really agitated by Rosol during that match. I don't know how much of it had to do with Rosol's level of play but something about Rosol's heavy breathing and jumping around while Nadal was trying to serve. Nadal bodychecked him during the changeover and it was deliberate. Nadal probably wanted to take him down a peg or something. The loss eats at Nadal. Likely to the point where he's frustrated with the loss and with the sport in general (too many events in the season).
Tradition of the place makes people think they deserve respect, but Rosol obviously never read the rules.

Has Nadal been on a graveyard court at WO? That would be interesting, watching someone take Nadal on court 13.

winstonplum
10-26-2012, 12:36 PM
You guys are all frickin' hysterical! It's hilarious. "He hates tennis", "He got sloshed." Jesus, get a grip. He'll be back for the AO. He's needed this six month break for about four years.

chrischris
10-26-2012, 12:42 PM
Perhaps Rafa is a bit like Bjorn Borg was .. teenage wonder claycourt master , that burns out quite fast .

Ms Nadal
10-26-2012, 12:46 PM
You guys are all frickin' hysterical! It's hilarious. "He hates tennis", "He got sloshed." Jesus, get a grip. He'll be back for the AO. He's needed this six month break for about four years.

We await and see how this story ends! I pray everyday that Rafa returns! It's not the same without him!. I just don't like what I am hearing about him right now. It's a bit worrying to say the least. I hope that your OTT comment is correct! :). I need to hear some positivity from someone!. I really do!

Ms Nadal
10-26-2012, 12:48 PM
Perhaps Rafa is a bit like Bjorn Borg was .. teenage wonder claycourt master , that burns out quite fast .

I have feared this for years! Especially since they have so many similarities!
1. Kings of Clay.
2. Teenage prodigies.
3. 11 Slams!!
4. June birthdays within a few days of each other!

Steve0904
10-26-2012, 01:05 PM
Nonsense. He was far better on HC and Grass in 2011 than 2010. Just look at all the players he beat. Nadal never, over the course of 4 slams, beat such tough competition. Ever. In his entire career. At RG he beat Soderling, Murray, Federer. Wimby it was Delpo and Murray. USO it was Roddick and Murray. AO it was Berdych and Federer. And he beat other tough players in that period, such as Fish, Nalby etc. Disclaimer: NONE of these guys even took him to five sets. He faced Murray 3 times, Federer twice, as well as Sod, Delpo, Berdych etc. They all got wiped out handily. He just couldn't beat one guy. That's it. He dominated everyone else to an extent he pretty much never had before.

Look at the players he beat on HC and Grass in 2011 and early 2012 and compare it to 2010. It's no comparison. It's just Djokovic that raised his level.

Jeez that sounds familiar.

Mike Sams
10-26-2012, 02:17 PM
Jeez that sounds familiar.

What goes around comes around...

TheFifthSet
10-26-2012, 03:00 PM
Jeez that sounds familiar.

Haha that's what I was getting at. :lol:

Rjtennis
10-26-2012, 08:16 PM
His career has not been ruined by injury if he can come back and play well after this one.

Agreed, but if he never wins another match he has had a world class, Hall of Fame career. His injuries are a byproduct of his playing style. He enjoys playing long, grinding points which has made him a champion and caused him alot of injuries.

Sabratha
10-27-2012, 12:23 AM
I dont think Nadal lost his passion.. Hes just broken down physically. Physically Nadal hash't been the same since 2010. (When his prime ended). Just about every attribute of his game as declined since then. His grass game decline big time, hard court game declined (though not as big as his grass game did IMO), hes still a beast on clay but not what he was from 2005-2010
Nadal was in his prime last year and the first half of this year, too. He just had Djokovic denying him slams.

sbengte
10-27-2012, 01:57 AM
Yes, not sure if it is another Bullszilla imposter account or an imposter account from a Fed fan. Whatever the case may be, how creepy is it for a poster to have different aliases? Looney tunes.

The poster just admitted to admiring Federer, not to having multiple accounts. He/she is clearly not a troll or an imposter as anyone who pays a little bit of attention to the way someone posts can tell. A very young fan perhaps, but not a troll. After all this while on this message board, you should be better than this at identifying trolls. Even *********'s teenage girl imposter account was very easy to identify. :) Anyway, won't carry on with this topic and try to defend this particular poster but I just find it annoying if a harmless poster is dubbed a troll.

cc0509
10-27-2012, 03:49 AM
The poster just admitted to admiring Federer, not to having multiple accounts. He/she is clearly not a troll or an imposter as anyone who pays a little bit of attention to the way someone posts can tell. A very young fan perhaps, but not a troll. After all this while on this message board, you should be better than this at identifying trolls. Even *********'s teenage girl imposter account was very easy to identify. :) Anyway, won't carry on with this topic and try to defend this particular poster but I just find it annoying if a harmless poster is dubbed a troll.

The poster admitted to admiring Federer after denying it for months! He wanted everybody to believe he was a Nadal fan based on his posts but for anybody who was paying attention as you say, that notion was laughable. It is my personal opinion that this particular poster is not a "new" poster but a poster who is not a stranger to this forum. Either he is a ******* who was banned or is a ********* alias or a poster similar to *********. We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

tennis_pro
10-27-2012, 04:08 AM
I have feared this for years! Especially since they have so many similarities!
1. Kings of Clay.
2. Teenage prodigies.
3. 11 Slams!!
4. June birthdays within a few days of each other!

born nearly exactly 30 years apart, won 2 majors in one season for the first time aged 22 (the exact same slams - the french and wimbledon)

Sabratha
10-27-2012, 04:16 AM
I have feared this for years! Especially since they have so many similarities!
1. Kings of Clay.
2. Teenage prodigies.
3. 11 Slams!!
4. June birthdays within a few days of each other!
Similar careers.

zebedee
10-27-2012, 04:20 AM
The other commonality with Borg is that both achieved most when playing off real hard courts.

Tennis on cement courts can be ruinous to a player's knees, especially so if he grew up on more forgiving surfaces. Nadal may also have genetic predisposition to tendon injury, something once explained to me by a leading sports doctor.

Ms Nadal
10-27-2012, 04:39 AM
The other commonality with Borg is that both achieved most when playing off real hard courts.

Tennis on cement courts can be ruinous to a player's knees, especially so if he grew up on more forgiving surfaces. Nadal may also have genetic predisposition to tendon injury, something once explained to me by a leading sports doctor.

That is a really valid point. I never thought about that. Yes, as Rafa grew up playing on his beloved clay his tendons would not have built up such a resistance to the hard courts. Spot on! :). I just hope that Rafa does RETURN! and tries to manage his schedule better. I have said for years that Rafa should only play the minimum number of events with no exhos and doubles competition. I want Rafa to look after his body! I want him to be around for a few more years, if he wants to.

zebedee
10-27-2012, 05:28 AM
I don't know exactly what tendon condition Nadal has, as medical science and practice draws a distinction between conditions stemming from inflammatory and non-inflammatory origins (to put it crudely) and I've never seen his diagnosis.

What in the US is commonly described as tendinitis, might more accurately be a tendinosis condition which is a different kettle of fish. This is a degenerative condition and thus harder to resolve than tendinitis, taking months not weeks. On top of all this, the player may have been administered cortisone shots to manage the condition on a going basis. That itself can lead to complications and could undermine an underlying condition even further. The knee is still a somewhat mysterious part of the body where conditions can show then disappear, so it seems.

A word of advice to anyone considering knee surgery. Don't do it. Rehab, rehab, rerhab, to the nth degree before finally deciding on the knife; menisectomies particularly, where the knee rarely improves afterwards despite all the propaganda. I just wish someone had told me that.

Clarky21
10-27-2012, 05:52 AM
Nadal was in his prime last year and the first half of this year, too. He just had Djokovic denying him slams.



No. Nadal has been past his prime for more than 2 years.

Ms Nadal
10-27-2012, 05:55 AM
Yes, Rafa has really gone out of his way to avoid knee surgery over the years. As he knows that surgery itself can have implications for his recovery and career. Rafa's knees are always a problem but it is my understanding that he manages the pain with various things ie injections and painkillers. I feel sorry for him at times when I read about his knees and all the things he has to endure to mange the pain. I think that he is in pain most of the time like most athletes. I just hope that Rafa can rise again and have his fire re-ignited so that he can make another comeback and win some more titles! His fans are waiting for him! :)

drakulie
10-27-2012, 06:52 AM
Nadal is undefeated when he wins, regardless of injuries.

Sabratha
10-27-2012, 07:03 AM
No. Nadal has been past his prime for more than 2 years.
How come Nadal made five straight finals between the French Open of 2011 and French Open 2012, winning two of them? If he's "out of his prime" surely his slam results would show it more than that. All that shows is that Djokovic was denying him slams.

RF20Lennon
10-27-2012, 07:09 AM
Nadal is undefeated when he wins, regardless of injuries.

FACT :cool:

Mike Sams
10-27-2012, 08:04 AM
No. Nadal has been past his prime for more than 2 years.

Nadal's been past his prime since 2008. He was just lucky that nobody else would rise to the challenge. Nadal won USO 2010 luckily because of his crap draw and because Del Potro was out with a severe wrist injury which cost him a whole season. When somebody finally did rise (Djokovic), Nadal can't win anything except clay events. Nadal's gotten as far as he has because of his fighting spirit, not because of his massive talent. His game is to chase down every ball and that's the reason his delicate knees and body are breaking down. Not to mention all surfaces are geared towards his style of game. Anybody see the state of the AO surface lately? :lol:

NDFM
10-27-2012, 08:18 AM
Nadal's been past his prime since 2008. He was just lucky that nobody else would rise to the challenge. Nadal won USO 2010 luckily because of his crap draw and because Del Potro was out with a severe wrist injury which cost him a whole season. When somebody finally did rise (Djokovic), Nadal can't win anything except clay events. Nadal's gotten as far as he has because of his fighting spirit, not because of his massive talent. His game is to chase down every ball and that's the reason his delicate knees and body are breaking down. Not to mention all surfaces are geared towards his style of game. Anybody see the state of the AO surface lately? :lol:

I'm not sure what you mean by this

Clarky21
10-27-2012, 08:32 AM
How come Nadal made five straight finals between the French Open of 2011 and French Open 2012, winning two of them? If he's "out of his prime" surely his slam results would show it more than that. All that shows is that Djokovic was denying him slams.



According to *******s,Nadal was in his prime when he was 18 years old,and it continues to this day at the age of 26. One of those same *******s have even said he played his best HC tennis in 2005 and 2006(:lol:). Also according to them,Fed was out already out of his prime at 26,yet he hit his prime when he won his first Wimby which puts him at 21-22 years old. So Nadal's prime has lasted over 8 years while Fed's lasted only 4? A Fed who was declining and out of his prime then went on to win 8 more slams after the *******s said he was out of his prime. Do you see how ridiculous this argument is because I sure do.


Again,Nadal has been out of his prime for more than 2 years. It's obvious to anyone without any bias or blinders on.

RF20Lennon
10-27-2012, 09:00 AM
According to *******s,Nadal was in his prime when he was 18 years old,and it continues to this day at the age of 26. One of those same *******s have even said he played his best HC tennis in 2005 and 2006(:lol:). Also according to them,Fed was out already out of his prime at 26,yet he hit his prime when he won his first Wimby which puts him at 21-22 years old. So Nadal's prime has lasted over 8 years while Fed's lasted only 4? A Fed who was declining and out of his prime then went on to win 8 more slams after the *******s said he was out of his prime. Do you see how ridiculous this argument is because I sure do.


Again,Nadal has been out of his prime for more than 2 years. It's obvious to anyone without any bias or blinders on.

He's out of his peak not his prime. He still has a couple years left

Ms Nadal
10-27-2012, 09:09 AM
He's out of his peak not his prime. He still has a couple years left

I agree! But Rafa must RETURN! :???:

Clarky21
10-27-2012, 09:18 AM
He's out of his peak not his prime. He still has a couple years left



Wrong. He's been out of his prime for more than 2 years,and is past his peak by nearly 5 years. How can one peak nearly 5 years ago yet still be in their prime? Only in *******land is that even a remote possiblity(this excludes Fed of course. lol)

Mike Sams
10-27-2012, 09:19 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by this

Check out the 6 hour battle between Nadal and Djokovic in the final. A grinder's and defender's dream! All possible on a slow as molasses hardcourt which may as well be blue coloured clay. :lol:

Mustard
10-27-2012, 09:24 AM
Check out the 6 hour battle between Nadal and Djokovic in the final. A grinder's and defender's dream! All possible on a slow as molasses hardcourt which may as well be blue coloured clay. :lol:

It was nothing like clay.

Numenor
10-27-2012, 09:30 AM
It was nothing like clay.

Quite right; it was slower.

90's Clay
10-27-2012, 09:44 AM
Nonsense. He was far better on HC and Grass in 2011 than 2010. Just look at all the players he beat. Nadal never, over the course of 4 slams, beat such tough competition. Ever. In his entire career. At RG he beat Soderling, Murray, Federer. Wimby it was Delpo and Murray. USO it was Roddick and Murray. AO it was Berdych and Federer. And he beat other tough players in that period, such as Fish, Nalby etc. Disclaimer: NONE of these guys even took him to five sets. He faced Murray 3 times, Federer twice, as well as Sod, Delpo, Berdych etc. They all got wiped out handily. He just couldn't beat one guy. That's it. He dominated everyone else to an extent he pretty much never had before.

Look at the players he beat on HC and Grass in 2011 and early 2012 and compare it to 2010. It's no comparison. It's just Djokovic that raised his level.

What??? I think you need to look at his level in 2011 and compare it to 2008-2010. No way was he better at the USO last year then he was in 2010 when he was peaking serving and aggressive. And you think 2011 Wimbledon Nadal>> then 2008 or 2010 Wimbledon Nadal?

GTHO. That Nadal wouldn't be getting blown out to Djokovic on freakin grass. Sorry

Clarky21
10-27-2012, 09:53 AM
What??? I think you need to look at his level in 2011 and compare it to 2008-2010. No way was he better at the USO last year then he was in 2010 when he was peaking serving and aggressive. And you think 2011 Wimbledon Nadal>> then 2008 or 2010 Wimbledon Nadal?

GTHO. That Nadal wouldn't be getting blown out to Djokovic on freakin grass. Sorry



You're talking to a Cvactard so don't expect a miracle. They like to believe their fav was beating up on a prime/peak Nadal last year when that is the furthest thing from the truth as you can get.

Steve0904
10-27-2012, 10:07 AM
You're talking to a Cvactard so don't expect a miracle. They like to believe their fav was beating up on a prime/peak Nadal last year when that is the furthest thing from the truth as you can get.

Jeez this sounds familiar too.

NDFM
10-27-2012, 10:11 AM
Jeez this sounds familiar too.

I had a feeling someone would say this, sure rafa was not in his peak last year but he was in his prime he made 3 GS finals (winning 1) and 5 Masters finals (2 on HC). So he got to more finals but I agree that his level of play wasn't as good in 2011 compared to 2008/2010

Agassifan
10-27-2012, 10:19 AM
RG 2009? After that Nadal didn't play two months.

He was beat fair and square by Soderling and I don't think he could've won wimbledon 2009 or USO 2012 based on form

Clarky21
10-27-2012, 10:24 AM
Jeez this sounds familiar too.



Fed wasn't in his prime in 2004 when Nadal first beat him? I guess Fed's prime lasted only 1 year then. :lol:

Steve0904
10-27-2012, 11:04 AM
Fed wasn't in his prime in 2004 when Nadal first beat him? I guess Fed's prime lasted only 1 year then. :lol:

I was implying that you contradicted yourself. You said Djokovic didn't beat prime Nadal all last year, all the while either not realizing or conveniently forgetting that you had just complained about Fed fans saying his prime ended in 2008 when Nadal beat him at Wimbledon. Come on Clarky! I thought you were smarter than that :).

Clarky21
10-27-2012, 11:33 AM
I was implying that you contradicted yourself. You said Djokovic didn't beat prime Nadal all last year, all the while either not realizing or conveniently forgetting that you had just complained about Fed fans saying his prime ended in 2008 when Nadal beat him at Wimbledon. Come on Clarky! I thought you were smarter than that :).



I don't think I contradicted myself at all. If Nadal has supposedly been in his prime since he was 18 years old,it is long over,like I already said. Fed,otoh,was supposedly out of his prime after being in it for only 4 years according to *******s. He has also always had problems with Nadal on every surface ever since Nadal came on the scene. Not so sure the same can be said of Nadal/*******.

Sabratha
10-27-2012, 07:43 PM
I don't think I contradicted myself at all. If Nadal has supposedly been in his prime since he was 18 years old,it is long over,like I already said. Fed,otoh,was supposedly out of his prime after being in it for only 4 years according to *******s. He has also always had problems with Nadal on every surface ever since Nadal came on the scene. Not so sure the same can be said of Nadal/*******.
Nadal didn't peak until 2008.

Steve0904
10-28-2012, 05:50 AM
This whole notion of prime/peak in tennis is a very wooly subject. I think Federer's prime ended in 2008, but not just because he lost to Djokovic at the AO, and Nadal at Wimbledon. He also had other losses to people he would normally beat, like Karlovic, Simon, and Fish off the top of my head. Generally if a player dominates a 4 year stretch like Federer did, and then he starts losing more to players he normally wouldn't that's really the only thing we can go on besides general level of play I think.

Nadal's prime is a bit of a tougher call IMO. He's been great (that's an understatement) on clay forever, but I think it's generally agreed that his prime started in 2008, and between the injury in 2009, it probably ended after 2010, but his 2011 season was awesome for him. His only problem was Djokovic. That was everybody's problem last year, and if Djokovic hadn't stepped it up we'd probably be looking at another 3 slam year for Nadal, and really I think the only reason people say his prime ended after 2010 is because Djokovic started beating him, but that may not have been the case. Likewise for Fed in 2008. Nadal beats him at Wimbledon, and Djokovic in Australia, and automatically people think he's past his prime because he's not winning 3 slams a year anymore.

It's human nature to think that when a guy dominates for a stretch and then somebody steps up, but as I said, it's not necessarily the case IMO, but again, it's such a subjective topic.

Clarky21
10-28-2012, 06:43 AM
Nadal didn't peak until 2008.



Right which nearly 5 years ago. There is no way Fed's prime only lasted 4 years while Nadal's has gone on for more than 8 years. Nadal has been out of his prime for over 2 years now.


And I don't know if it's true,but I have heard that Nadal is going to Barcelona on Wednesday to discuss having surgery on his knee. If that's the case all he and his team did for the last 5 months is put off the inevitable,and they did nothing but waste time. If he would have had the surgery back in June he would probably be back practicing by now. What an inept bunch of dummies those people are.

Sabratha
10-28-2012, 06:45 AM
This whole notion of prime/peak in tennis is a very wooly subject. I think Federer's prime ended in 2008, but not just because he lost to Djokovic at the AO, and Nadal at Wimbledon. He also had other losses to people he would normally beat, like Karlovic, Simon, and Fish off the top of my head. Generally if a player dominates a 4 year stretch like Federer did, and then he starts losing more to players he normally wouldn't that's really the only thing we can go on besides general level of play I think.

Nadal's prime is a bit of a tougher call IMO. He's been great (that's an understatement) on clay forever, but I think it's generally agreed that his prime started in 2008, and between the injury in 2009, it probably ended after 2010, but his 2011 season was awesome for him. His only problem was Djokovic. That was everybody's problem last year, and if Djokovic hadn't stepped it up we'd probably be looking at another 3 slam year for Nadal, and really I think the only reason people say his prime ended after 2010 is because Djokovic started beating him, but that may not have been the case. Likewise for Fed in 2008. Nadal beats him at Wimbledon, and Djokovic in Australia, and automatically people think he's past his prime because he's not winning 3 slams a year anymore.

It's human nature to think that when a guy dominates for a stretch and then somebody steps up, but as I said, it's not necessarily the case IMO, but again, it's such a subjective topic.
Federer only won one slam in 2008, his lowest amount per year since 2003. His second lowest amount came in 2005, when he lost a very close semifinal match against Marat Safin at the Australian Open and lost in the semifinals of the French Open. He won Wimbledon and the US Open that year.

Clarky21
10-28-2012, 06:46 AM
This whole notion of prime/peak in tennis is a very wooly subject. I think Federer's prime ended in 2008, but not just because he lost to Djokovic at the AO, and Nadal at Wimbledon. He also had other losses to people he would normally beat, like Karlovic, Simon, and Fish off the top of my head. Generally if a player dominates a 4 year stretch like Federer did, and then he starts losing more to players he normally wouldn't that's really the only thing we can go on besides general level of play I think.

Nadal's prime is a bit of a tougher call IMO. He's been great (that's an understatement) on clay forever, but I think it's generally agreed that his prime started in 2008, and between the injury in 2009, it probably ended after 2010, but his 2011 season was awesome for him. His only problem was Djokovic. That was everybody's problem last year, and if Djokovic hadn't stepped it up we'd probably be looking at another 3 slam year for Nadal, and really I think the only reason people say his prime ended after 2010 is because Djokovic started beating him, but that may not have been the case. Likewise for Fed in 2008. Nadal beats him at Wimbledon, and Djokovic in Australia, and automatically people think he's past his prime because he's not winning 3 slams a year anymore.

It's human nature to think that when a guy dominates for a stretch and then somebody steps up, but as I said, it's not necessarily the case IMO, but again, it's such a subjective topic.




So you believe that Fed's prime only lasted 4-5 years? Sorry,but that's ridiculous considering he went on to win 8 more slams after that,and numerous other titles as well.


And Nadal has also been losing to people he normally would not have. He's lost to Flo Mayer,Dodig,Rosol,Fish,Verdasco,etc... Do you think prime Nadal would have lost to players like that?

Sabratha
10-28-2012, 06:49 AM
Right which nearly 5 years ago. There is no way Fed's prime only lasted 4 years while Nadal's has gone on for more than 8 years. Nadal has been out of his prime for over 2 years now.


And I don't know if it's true,but I have heard that Nadal is going to Barcelona on Wednesday to discuss having surgery on his knee. If that's the case all he and his team did for the last 5 months is put off the inevitable,and they did nothing but waste time. If he would have had the surgery back oin June he would probably be back practicing by now. What an inept bunch of dummies those people are.
Nadal peaked in 2008, he was ranked #2 from 2005 onwards because there was nobody good enough to stop him. Federer was still too good and consistent on every other surface and Nadal still lost early in the other slams. One really can argue that Nadal is the best claycourter in the history of the game, as most of his points kept him ranked at #2 despite not hitting his (entire) prime yet.

Nadal probably had a four year prime/peak. He was still in his prime/peak in 2011, and the first half of 2012, he just had to contend with Djokovic who upped his level from his other years.

abmk
10-28-2012, 06:50 AM
You're talking to a Cvactard so don't expect a miracle. They like to believe their fav was beating up on a prime/peak Nadal last year when that is the furthest thing from the truth as you can get.

lol, wut ?

nadal was very definitely in his prime in 2011 ... just couldn't handle djoker 2.0

only in two other years, nadal has had better results : 2008 and 2010 ....

So if 2011 was not one of his prime years, he's only had 2 prime years ? LOL !!!

Clarky21
10-28-2012, 06:58 AM
Nadal peaked in 2008, he was ranked #2 from 2005 onwards because there was nobody good enough to stop him. Federer was still too good and consistent on every other surface and Nadal still lost early in the other slams. One really can argue that Nadal is the best claycourter in the history of the game, as most of his points kept him ranked at #2 despite not hitting his (entire) prime yet.

Nadal probably had a four year prime/peak. He was still in his prime/peak in 2011, and the first half of 2012, he just had to contend with Djokovic who upped his level from his other years.


And Fed was still in his prime in 2008 he just had to contend with Nadal who upped his level from his other years. See,it works both ways.

lol, wut ?

nadal was very definitely in his prime in 2011 ... just couldn't handle djoker 2.0
only in two other years, nadal has had better results : 2008 and 2010 ....

So if 2011 was not one of his prime years, he's only had 2 prime years ? LOL !!!



And Fed was very much in his prime in 2008 he just couldn't handle Nadal 2.0. Again,it works both ways.


I didn't say that. I said that *******s have said that Nadal entered his prime when he was 18 years old,and that it still continues on today after more than 8 years(ridiculous). Then after chirping endlessly about Fed's "effortless style of play",*******s want me to believe that his prime only lasted 4 years while Nadal with his "grinder" style of play has gone on for more than 8? It sounds to me like *******s need to get their bs straight because this argument gets an F for effort.

Sabratha
10-28-2012, 07:01 AM
And Fed was still in his prime in 2008 he just had to contend with Nadal who upped his level from his other years. See,it works both ways.

I agree, 2010 is when Federer's wheels started to really fall off.

Clarky21
10-28-2012, 07:05 AM
I agree, 2010 is when Federer's wheels started to really fall off.



This I agree with. I think his decline started in 2010,and maybe a little bit in 2009,even though he cleaned up at the majors that year. The very idea that Fed started to decline after only being in his prime for 4 years is ridiculous.

Carsomyr
10-28-2012, 07:07 AM
So you believe that Fed's prime only lasted 4-5 years? Sorry,but that's ridiculous considering he went on to win 8 more slams after that,and numerous other titles as well.


And Nadal has also been losing to people he normally would not have. He's lost to Flo Mayer,Dodig,Rosol,Fish,Verdasco,etc... Do you think prime Nadal would have lost to players like that?

Yeah, losses to Fish, Roddick, Stepanek, Karlovic, and Blake in 2008 - totally indicative of a peak Federer.

Clarky21
10-28-2012, 07:11 AM
Yeah, losses to Fish, Roddick, Stepanek, Karlovic, and Blake in 2008 - totally indicative of a peak Federer.



Same could be said for Nadal yet *******s still insist he is in his prime.

Steve0904
10-28-2012, 07:24 AM
Nadal peaked in 2008. I haven't heard anybody with two brain cells to rub together say Nadal's prime started in 2005. And Federer has only won 5 slams after 2007, not 8.

Steve0904
10-28-2012, 07:46 AM
So you believe that Fed's prime only lasted 4-5 years? Sorry,but that's ridiculous considering he went on to win 8 more slams after that,and numerous other titles as well.


And Nadal has also been losing to people he normally would not have. He's lost to Flo Mayer,Dodig,Rosol,Fish,Verdasco,etc... Do you think prime Nadal would have lost to players like that?

Some of those losses have nothing to do with Nadal supposedly being past his prime. I guess the same can be said of Federer, but let me use your examples.

Ex Verdasco: I don't really know wtf happened in this match, but it had nothing to do with Nadal losing because he was past his prime. I still don't know how he lost, but it was evident he wanted off the blue clay, however he could've easily won this match.

Ex: Florian Mayer. Nadal's never been great indoors. He lost to Melzer in 2010 as well although Melzer had a great year that was still an unexpected loss.

Rosol just blew him off the court, I think prime or not Nadal was losing that day. Don't forget, he didn't exactly blow through Wimby in 2010 either. He needed 5 sets in back to back matches to beat Haase and Petzscner who are only slightly better than Rosol, but I'll give you that one. I'll give you Dodig too, but Nadal has never been great in Cincy, and he had his hand wrapped from the hot plate incident so Fish needed a little help.

abmk
10-28-2012, 07:50 AM
And Fed was very much in his prime in 2008 he just couldn't handle Nadal 2.0. Again,it works both ways.

umm, no, it doesn't .... that fails massively on two counts :

a) federer was wayyy better in 2004-07 and 09 ....( arguably better in 2012 as well ) than he was in 2008 ...

b) federer was losing to so many players - stepanek, blake, karlovic, fish, roddick, simon etc .... nadal OTOH was mainly losing to djoker in 2011 .....

I didn't say that. I said that *******s have said that Nadal entered his prime when he was 18 years old,and that it still continues on today after more than 8 years(ridiculous). Then after chirping endlessly about Fed's "effortless style of play",*******s want me to believe that his prime only lasted 4 years while Nadal with his "grinder" style of play has gone on for more than 8? It sounds to me like *******s need to get their bs straight because this argument gets an F for effort.

no, nadal's CC prime was from 2005, grass court prime from 2007 and hard court prime probably from 2008 ...

abmk
10-28-2012, 07:55 AM
And Nadal has also been losing to people he normally would not have. He's lost to Flo Mayer,Dodig,Rosol,Fish,Verdasco,etc... Do you think prime Nadal would have lost to players like that?

actually yes, nadal did lose to players like that in 2008 and 2010 ...... go and refresh your memory ...

in 2008 and 2010, he lost to youzhny , seppi , old ljubicic, lopez, garcia lopez, melzer etc .....

tlm
10-28-2012, 07:58 AM
Ya his career has been terrible with all those injuries it has been ruined. I mean he has only won 11 majors, what a flop he has turned out to be.

Clarky21
10-28-2012, 09:18 AM
umm, no, it doesn't .... that fails massively on two counts :

a) federer was wayyy better in 2004-07 and 09 ....( arguably better in 2012 as well ) than he was in 2008 ...


b) federer was losing to so many players - stepanek, blake, karlovic, fish, roddick, simon etc .... nadal OTOH was mainly losing to djoker in 2011 .....




no, nadal's CC prime was from 2005, grass court prime from 2007 and hard court prime probably from 2008 ...


I guess Fed's prime skips years. It certainly has nothing to do with Nadal beating him at Wimby.


Nadal has lost to plenty of mugs over the past 2 years. He has lost to Dodig,Flo Mayer,Rosol,Fish,Verdasco,GGL,Melzer,etc It's also not just about who he lost to,but also his level of play. His level was poor throughout all of last year,and he became Forehand Man. Do you really think prime Nadal loses to ******* on grass? In the Wimby final? No way.


I guess Nadal's prime is going to go on and on and never end no matter how many mug's he loses to. He could never lose because he is getting older and is out of his prime. He only loses because every player on the ATP tour is better than he his,and his losing to them only proves what a fluke his career has been. Fed,otoh,was out of his prime by the time he was 26,and after only 4 years. Just pure bs.

Hitman
10-28-2012, 09:36 AM
It certainly wasn't ruined, that is a little too extreme considering the remarkable figures Nadal has posted over his illustrious career.

I will say that they have certainly taken their pound of flesh from him. This year alone stands out, with him missing a significant portion of the season.

Steve0904
10-28-2012, 09:37 AM
So I guess Nadal was out of his prime in 2011 at just 24/25 years of age? Most people are lucky if they have a 4 year prime. For instance, I think Sampras's prime was from 1994 to 1997. Nobody here is saying Nadal's been in his prime since 2005. Federer's overall level in 2008 was terrible as well. And yes I do think he loses to ******* in 2010 because ******* was awesome last year.

abmk
10-28-2012, 06:48 PM
I guess Fed's prime skips years. It certainly has nothing to do with Nadal beating him at Wimby.

lol, wut ? it should have been 2004-09, but 08 was affected by mono and in late 2008-early 2009 , he was affected by back problems ....


Nadal has lost to plenty of mugs over the past 2 years. He has lost to Dodig,Flo Mayer,Rosol,Fish,Verdasco,GGL,Melzer,etc It's also not just about who he lost to,but also his level of play. His level was poor throughout all of last year,and he became Forehand Man. Do you really think prime Nadal loses to ******* on grass? In the Wimby final? No way.

you do realize that melzer and GGL losses were in 2010, nadal's best year statistically ?

also that he lost to youzhny, seppi in 2008 and was getting ripped apart in straights by djoker on HC in 2008 .....whereas he took atleast a set off djoker in every HC meeting in 2011-early12 and this was a djoker who was better than 2008 version ....

his level of play in 2011-early half of 2012 was very good ....

yes, prime nadal can lose to djoker on grass, given the matchup and the fact that djoker had the mental edge and was zoning in large part of the final ...even in 2008, nadal's best GC form, djoker played him close at queens. Just that nadal had the mental edge then ...

yes, nadal is by some distance a superior player on grass, but the matchup narrows down the gap in their matches ...

just like how the matchup narrows down the distance b/w fed-nadal on grass, though federer is by some distance the superior grass court player ...

regarding the rosol loss, all I can say is LOL, he was in a similar sort of situation not once, but twice in wimbledon 2010 - vs haase/patzschener , only they couldn't finish the job like rosol did .... in 2011, OTOH, he beat a zoning delpo and a murray who was playing some decent tennis ...didn't go to 5 before the finals like he did in 2010 ...

also regarding level of play, this year when nadal was playing brilliantly on clay ( unlike last year where his form had dipped on clay ) , you were still whining about it ...... he ended up losing a grand total of 1 set on red clay across 4 events ..... So you do realize no one takes you seriously when you say nadal wasn't/isn't playing well ?

I guess Nadal's prime is going to go on and on and never end no matter how many mug's he loses to. He could never lose because he is getting older and is out of his prime. He only loses because every player on the ATP tour is better than he his,and his losing to them only proves what a fluke his career has been. Fed,otoh,was out of his prime by the time he was 26,and after only 4 years. Just pure bs.

nadal's career isn't a fluke. He is an ATG, probably the best on clay and pretty good on other surfaces ... But that doesn't mean that just because he was owned by djoker in 2011, he wasn't in his prime then ...

just answer this, which year of nadal was better than his 2011 , apart from 2008 and 2010 ...... and you''ll realize all your excuses regarding 2011 not being nadal's prime year flies out of the window ...